(upbeat instrumental music) (stately orchestral music) - Hello, and welcome to Maine Public's Your Vote 2018 gubernatorial debate.

I'm Jennifer Rooks, here with Maine Public political reporters Mal Leary and Steve Mistler.

We're coming to you from the Gracie Theatre on the campus of Husson University in Bangor.

For the next hour, we will be hearing from the four candidates vying to be Maine's next governor.

Let's meet the candidates, in alphabetical order.

Independent Alan Caron of Freeport is the founder and CEO of Envision Maine, a nonprofit that lobbies on behalf of an innovation economy.

Prior to that, Caron founded the nonprofit GrowSmart, an economic development advocacy group.

Caron earned a master's from the Harvard Kennedy School and has not held elected office.

Independent Terry Hayes of Buckfield is Maine's state treasurer.

Before that, she served four terms in the Maine House of Representatives as a Democrat and on the school board of MSAD 39.

Hayes earned a bachelor's from Bowdoin College and a master's from Thomas College.

Democrat Janet Mills of Farmington is Maine's current attorney general.

She has also served as district attorney for Androscoggin, Franklin, and Oxford Counties and as a member of the Maine House of Representatives.

She is a cofounder of the Maine Women's Lobby.

Mills holds a bachelor's from the University of Massachusetts and her law degree from the University of Maine School of Law.

And Republican Shawn Moody of Gorham founded Moody's Collision Centers, a Maine chain of auto body repair shops.

In 2010, he ran unsuccessfully for governor as an unenrolled candidate.

Moody was appointed to the boards of trustees for both the University of Maine System and the Maine Community College System by Republican Governor Paul LePage.

Moody graduated from Gorham High School.

The questions in this debate come from the Maine Public news team and, as you will see later in the debate, from you, members of the public.

We're gonna start, again in alphabetical order, with our first question, but in the interest of fairness, we will reshuffle that order over the next 60 minutes.

In this opening segment, we will tackle some front-burner issues.

Each candidate will have one minute to respond.

On the opioid crisis, Mal.

- Alan Caron, you've said that Maine's next governor will face difficult decisions because the state has more needs than revenues.

What specific programs would you prioritize to address the opioid crisis and why?

- Well, I've said that with a flat economy and an aging state, we are now getting to the point where we have more needs than we have dollars, and unless we fix the underlying economy, we're not gonna have more revenues.

I have been deeply disappointed by the gridlock on this issue that for two years had both parties taking opposite positions, one saying we needed more law enforcement, the other saying we needed more services.

I agree with both of those positions.

Why couldn't we find a common sense position in the middle?

We should've been doing two things, and we've been held up for years while people have been dying.

So look, I think the highest priority of government is to make sure this economy grows so we have revenues.

The second priority is to take care of the people who are the most vulnerable among us.

- [Jennifer] Steve.

- Terry Hayes, you've said you'd like to create an on-demand treatment network for people with opioid addiction.

How would you start such a network, how would you fund it, and how would you ensure that there are enough providers for that network?

- If I understand your question Steve, you wanna know how would I start it?

Well, I would, I think we already have practitioners that are geared up, that are currently overbooked, if you will, so part of this starts with going to the licensing community and making sure that we are in fact training people for these roles and let them know that they have a job, so we'll start with that.

How would we fund it?

Well, we're gonna start by expanding Medicaid, not that all of the folks by any means who maybe have this brain disease are gonna be eligible for Medicaid expansion, but that's part of what will increase the provider network.

We have to not only expand Medicaid, but we have to address the gap between the cost of the services and the reimbursement rates.

We have not done that, so we need to do both of those things, and we're gonna have some skin in that game, Steve.

We're gonna have some Maine tax dollars that go toward that treatment effort.

I think we also have to be prepared to lead with compassion on this issue with understanding that this is a brain disease and leave the judgment aside.

- Janet Mills, you have several proposals to address the opioid crisis, including increasing Medicaid reimbursement rates, providing extra resources to targeted areas of the state, and expanding drug courts.

Where will the money come from to pay for those?

- Here's who ought to be paying to solve the opiate epidemic, the crisis in Maine, the drug companies, pure and simple.

And I'm part of that effort that many states are involved in, in holding the drug companies accountable.

When I talk to people who have substance use disorders, people in treatment, people trying to get into treatment, insured and uninsured, and most of them are uninsured, trying to get help, I learn that many of them, 3/4 of them, basically, got hooked on pills before they got hooked on heroin and/or fentanyl.

You know, we're losing one person a day to this opiate epidemic.

Our workforce is decimated because of this epidemic.

We're losing three babies a day who are born affected by drugs, three a day.

So I wanna hold the big pharmaceutical companies accountable for this and make them pay for appropriate treatment such as the hub-and-spokes model that works in Vermont and some other states and intensive outpatient treatment, which does work and is cost effective as well.

And getting NARCAN-- - Thank you, Janet Mills.

Steve.

Shawn Moody, medication-assisted treatment is evidence based and proven to help people recover from opioid addiction.

Do you support expanding this type of treatment, and if so, is Medicaid expansion an important way to increase access to medication-assisted treatment?

- Well, obviously, Medicaid expansion is the law.

I mean, we're gonna find a sustainable and a responsible way to fund it.

You know, my belief is we can do a lot privately.

You know, I think a lotta people look to government to be the answer-all, end-all.

I believe sober houses, private sober houses, there's no person that can help someone through a pathway of sobriety as somebody's that been there, you know, in the trench, and they know what it's like to go through that with their life.

So I'm a big advocate of private sober houses to help people deal with substance use disorder.

I also feel like the treatment that we currently have in terms of the medical-assisted treatment, there are programs in around the state of Maine that do allow for that, Steve.

I don't know if I'd be necessarily quick to wanna expand that.

I really feel like the private sector can play a bigger role and participate more.

And I also wanna have a dashboard to all these facilities to see which recovery centers are getting the job with a matrix.

And that way, we can stand up that model in other areas of the state that need it.

- Thank you, Shawn Moody.

Our question two is regarding Maine's workforce.

Terry Hayes will have the first question, Mal.

- Terry, you've said repeatedly that you wanna make Maine one of the best places in the country to work.

But what does that really mean?

Are you proposing a marketing campaign that's designed to recruit high-skilled workers, or do you think employers should be required to offer a slate of benefits, say, paid family leave, to act as a recruitment sweetener?

- Thank you for the question, Mal.

I see our challenge around workforce to be one of invitation, not of mandate.

I'm not advocating that we pass laws that require employers to do something.

Our employers are already motivated because there are so many jobs open in the state of Maine.

There are thousands of jobs unfilled right now, and that reduces productivity, it reduces income for those businesses and nonprofits across the state.

So from my perspective, well, there's already significant effort underway in several different arenas from the private sector.

I wanna work with those people as Maine's next governor to say what are the policy pieces that will help you do what you're doing?

You know, and should we be spending some public investment in subsidizing quality childcare access because that's a significant burden for young families.

You know, do we increase the opportunities for tax incentives in some areas that might make sense around college debt and so forth?

Do we work with Maine State Housing to provide an opportunity for folks who have student debt to qualify for assistance and get into housing quicker?

I see us as bringing the glue that brings it together.

- [Jennifer] Thank you, Terry.

Steve.

- Janet Mills, you have proposed as part of your economic development plan something called the Welcome Home program which would offer tax incentives to companies that hire workers and bring former Mainers back home.

Are loans and tax breaks really going to fill the void of skilled workers that we currently have?

- Thank you, Steve.

That's one part of a larger plan that I have which I call an economic action plan, and it includes the Welcome Home program to give incentives to people to move back to Maine, come back to Maine.

I talked with a young man just the other day who has a job with a international company, and said he works remotely, and he's in Portland, and he said not a week goes by but what he doesn't get a call from states like Texas and North Carolina inviting him to move there and offering him some various incentives to move there and work there.

He said he never gets a call from anybody from the state of Maine.

I think that's telling, and I think we need to identify those people who wanna come here and work remotely, provide the infrastructure for them to do so.

That's part of my plan, too, supporting broadband districts, coworking spaces, and the rural areas where people can come, work remotely in large and existing business or start a new business.

- Isn't that a similar approach as we do currently for business recruitment?

- [Janet] I'm sorry, it's really hard to hear you, Steve.

- Sorry, isn't that a similar approach to what we do for economic development in terms of bringing companies here, too?

- It's not like the Pine Tree Zones.

- Right.

- Which is a whole separate thing, that's a larger package.

It has provided incentives to larger business for the most part to move here and do various things.

It's not the same.

- Shawn Moody, you recently announced an economic plan that includes a marketing campaign you say is designed to convince the 30 million or so tourists who visit Maine every year that they might wanna to live and work here.

But according to a study by the Maine Office of Tourism, 32% of day visitors and 14% of overnight visitors are Maine residents, they're simply called tourists because they traveled a certain distance under the study.

So knowing that a good chunk of Maine tourists are already residents, do you think a marketing campaign will be enough to address the state's workforce needs?

- Well, even if you cut that number in half, it's 15 million.

If you take 1/10 of 1%, that's 15,000 people.

And let's be honest, people come to Maine, they save money all year long to come and enjoy Maine for a week or two weeks.

We get to enjoy this wonderful state all year 'round.

So I don't think it's a heavy lift, Mal.

They're already comin' here with their families.

You know, they love Maine, and they just don't know of the opportunities, the employment opportunities that currently exist in our state, and I'm talkin' about from the professionals like doctors, lawyers, right down to the trades, you know, electricians, plumbers, carpenters, all walks a life, all jobs, all sectors.

We have thousands of job opportunities.

And you know, here's the thing.

Some people see this demographic shift, or cliff, as the perfect storm.

I see it as the perfect opportunity.

So we have to change the message and let our young Mainers and people that are coming in and enjoying our state know there's never been a chance for upward mobility right now as there is in the state of Maine.

- In interviews I've had with you, you say that one of the problems is getting that right mix of people.

Is a marketing campaign enough to get those people, or will there have to be other efforts to specifically recruit some of them?

- Well, yes, it will be 'cause you can take that demographic from, say, 28 to 48.

They're at the prime of their life, they're talented, and they're raising their families.

They're gonna be an instant injection into our rural economy, revitalize our communities.

And the immigrant population, you know, we're not gettin' them to work for 12 to 16 months.

We need to, if they're here with a visa, they're here legal, we need to give 'em a work permit and get 'em out into the employment community.

- [Jennifer] Steve.

- Alan Caron, you have said in the course of the campaign that one reason for the skilled worker shortage in Maine is that much of the practical and technical education has been stripped out of the primary and secondary school curricula over the past generation because of the mistaken belief that every student should or would go on to college.

But wouldn't many of the jobs that are unfilled now of the require college-level training?

- Yes, well, there're two different problems there.

And we talk a lot about the skilled jobs, but that affects, in my mind, about 10% of the economy.

The other 90% is people who don't have enough opportunities, and it's that group that we have to address at the high school level.

I grew up in a low-income blue collar neighborhood.

I had about 40 friends when I was growing up.

None one of them has gone to college.

Many of them are very successful, but they had free technical training in high school.

We've essentially wiped that out.

Now we're trying to rebuild it.

I think it was a huge mistake.

Now, there's another group that needs more advanced technical training, and there the problem is you can't get technical training right now without outlaying a lotta money.

So we're indebting a whole generation of young people.

So I propose a two-year free higher education plan if you live and work in Maine for 10 years.

- All right, question three addresses health care.

We'll start with Janet Mills, Mal.

Janet, there's been a lot of discussion by all the candidates about ways to pay for health care costs.

No one has started to address the issue of the cost of health care, drugs that are too high, hospital visits that are too high, doctors visits are too high.

What would you do to address that problem?

- Oh, great question, Mal, thank you.

And it's true that Maine people spend about 18, almost 18.5% of their income on health care.

We have great access to health care, great hospitals, great clinics, but we spend too much on it, partly because there's so many uninsured or underinsured, people who have catastrophic care coverage and not real insurance that's affordable and accessible.

So we have something called the Maine Health Data Organization that allows you go online and shop for services, actually, find out home much things cost.

I think government has a role in negotiating.

When you have the universe of people covered by health insurance and state government, county government, local government, firefighters, police officers, you have a role in negotiating the right prices for the right procedures and preventing the ultimately highest-cost medical care, which is the emergency room, right?

So if more people are insured, fewer of them will go to the emergency room for the flu and because they don't have preventative care and don't have primary care.

So Medicaid expansion is a good piece, a good part of the puzzle in reducing costs.

- Thank you, Janet.

Steve.

- Shawn Moody, you keep saying that Medicaid expansion is the law.

You just said it in the previous question, I believe.

Will you make a commitment today to fund that program, how do you propose to do that?

- Well, let me start by sayin', Jennifer, you interviewed me back in 2010, and you asked me what was the number one challenge facing Maine, and I said it was health care and health insurance.

That was eight years ago.

So Medicaid expansion is the law, Steve, to answer your question directly.

I, what, the governor's not gonna appropriate the funds, okay?

We need to get the legislature there.

I've talked to the CEOs at the major hospitals here in the state.

They're willin' to participate, come to the table, the health care providers.

We need everybody around that table to make sure that we find a responsible and a sustainable way to fund it.

- But you have also put a lot of the restrictions on funding for Medicaid expansion.

They're identical to the ones that Governor LePage has put on.

What are the options beyond the ones that you've already excluded?

- I think we need to get everybody around the table, I'm open minded, then we'll sit down.

And like I say, sustainability and responsibility.

But the other thing is here, I'm a small business owner.

Our insurance premiums would have crested $1 million last year for our company.

I actually negotiated with Anthem, you know, how to buy health insurance not provided to us by the government.

So I know how to negotiate and how to lower healthcare premium costs for the people of Maine.

- So that's a commitment that you will find the way to fund it if you're the governor?

- Yes.

- [Jennifer] Mal.

- Terry Hayes, to reduce health care costs, you've suggested that Maine create a statewide wellness and prevention program, similar to wellness programs many employers now offer, but studies have found these programs aren't all that effective.

How would you create a successful program, and how would you fund it?

- Well, it's interesting because Maine employers have a different experience, Mal, in terms of the effectiveness because that's why they offer the programs.

And you know, it just starts with knowing more.

We're relatively uninformed health care consumers because we've relied on these third party payers for so many years.

We have to change that culture so that we have some transparency, we know what it's costin' us.

But even the State as an employer has a health and wellness program that reduces the premium cost to the employee if you participate in the program, and it's just data collection and education.

I think that's essential.

Look at the chunk of money we spend in state money we're spending in health care.

Why wouldn't we follow the lead of organizations like the largest employers in the state and have a wellness program designed specifically at those consumers that are relying on government-funded health insurance?

You know, the cheapest dollar in health care is the one you don't spend because you will have prevented the need for it or you'd got off the medication, and that's generally what we're finding with those programs, is medications are reduced, and activity is increased.

- [Jennifer] Thank you.

Steve.

- Alan Caron, under your plan to improve Mainers' health, you wanna ensure people in rural areas can access care close to home.

How will you make that a reality given our aging state, workforce shortage, and, as you keep pointing out, our limited resources?

- Yeah, well, I agree entirely, we have to expand Medicaid, and we can't equivocate on that.

There was an earlier question I wanna get to which was the cost of education, which is really the most important thing we can do.

The problem is that the medical care industry in this country has a stranglehold on the U.S.

Congress and has for some decades.

They have made it impossible for us to understand what the price of different procedures is and how we can use competitive forces in the marketplace.

So the single most important thing we can do is to bring transparency into pricing at whatever we can do at the state level.

We know the United States Congress has outlawed our ability to leverage consumer power and to understand pricing, so we're gonna have to be prepared for a major fight on that.

That is not one of these issues where we can just bring everyone together and find a happy solution.

And I don't see any way around that.

So now the other thing we need is to introduce into the marketplace incentives for people to get good service at lower prices once they know what the prices are, and that's a mechanism that I believe we should move towards where if you save money, you get a percentage of the savings coming back to you in a check.

- All right, we're gonna go on to some unique questions for each candidate specifically.

These have been crafted by our news staff, and you will each, as in the last section, have one minute to respond.

And Mal, the first question's for Shawn Moody.

- Shawn, you're seeking to succeed Governor LaPage whose two terms have been, shall we say, laden with controversy?

(Steve chuckles) Fierce partisan battles, use of executive power that has sparked several court battles.

You've hired the governor's daughter, his political consultant, and you're courting his supporters.

Tell us how you will govern differently than Paul LaPage?

- Well, let me first by starting, and let's take us back eight years.

It's also been laden with results.

You know, we had $750 million in hospital debt.

We had a $1.3 billion pension crisis.

You know, we had almost double-digit unemployment.

Look where we are today.

We're at full employment, the hospitals are paid off, the pension system is solvent, so let me just start there.

I'm not an unknown commodity.

You know, I've been in business for 40 years.

We took care of over 200,000 Mainers in the last 17 years, 200,000.

So we have a track record of collaboration.

We have an employee-owned company, so our coworkers actually own stock in our organization.

The only person, Mal, in the state's history to serve on the University System and Community College boards of trustees.

Think about USM, where it was four years ago.

Think about where the system was.

Now, we just announced that enrollment is starting to increase again.

USM had 11% shortfall in enrollment, $16 million budget deficit.

The president stepped down at the Community College System about that time.

So I think anything I've been involved with, Mal, when I go show up on the job, good things happen, and we get results.

- So how will you govern differently?

You're gonna have to deal probably with a partially Democratic legislature, partially Republican legislature.

How will you govern differently than the controversial style of Paul LaPage?

- I'm just gonna be myself, Mal.

I'm a collaborator, I think everybody that knows me knows I'll get along as long as we're gettin' ahead.

That's gonna be the goal.

- Steve, for Alan Caron.

- Alan Caron, last spring you wrote a column in the Portland Press Herald that said you will drop out of the race if polls show you can't win.

Have you seen a poll that says you can, and if not, why haven't you fulfilled that pledge?

- I actually wrote that any candidate who can't win in October, in the absence of ranked-choice voting, would have to take upon themselves ranked-choice voting, that is, to remove themself from the race.

I did not say when that should happen.

Four years ago, I wrote that Eliot Cutler should get out the race, and I wrote that just about two weeks before the election, as I remember it.

Well, I have been waiting patiently for many weeks for my three opponents to get out of this race.

(audience laughing) And I've calculated now that if only two of them get out, I'm gonna have a really good chance to win this thing.

(audience laughing) Three would be preferable.

So I will have an announcement within the next few days.

- [Steve] Okay, thank you.

- [Jennifer] Mal, for Terry Hayes.

- (laughing) Hard one to follow, Alan.

Terry Hayes, your campaign's been focused on the idea that the partisan divide has stymied progress in Augusta and that an independent is needed to bring the two sides together.

But beyond talking about partisanship, what's the big idea or big proposals you're offering that will bring those often warring factions together to talk?

- Well, you know, Mal, I've served in Augusta now for a total of 12 years, the first eight in the legislature and then the last four as state treasurer, and I can tell you my experience has been very different in the last six years, so the second half of that, and it comes down to this.

It's a relationship business.

This is a relationship business, and in order for the governor to get meaningful change that will last beyond the governor's administration, ya have to work with other folks.

Ya gotta work with the folks in the legislature.

We've had a legislature that's at war with the executive branch, declared by the executive branch, frankly.

And so we're doing this all the time in the policy work, and the executive branch wasn't participating in policy making but stepped out of it.

The first thing I intend to do, legislative leaders will be elected within two weeks of November 6th, I wanna meet with each of those individuals.

I don't know how many caucuses there will be.

There may be four, there may be five or six by then.

I wanna meet with those leaders, and then I wanna meet with them as a group, and I wanna maintain that meeting schedule throughout my tenure so that we can work together putting what we wanna do on the table and helping each other get those goals met.

- [Jennifer] Steve, for Janet Mills.

- Yeah, sorry.

(laughs) Your opponents have characterized you as a career politician, presumably because there are a fair number of voters who just don't trust people who have experience in government.

Are you are a career politician, and is there anything wrong with that?

- (laughing) Great question, thank you, Steve.

You know, I like to think that public service can be an honor and a privilege.

That's how I've looked at it, from the time I grew up in the shadows of Margaret Chase Smith in Skowhegan, watching what Bill Cohen did in the U.S.

Senate and the Congress and as mayor of Bangor, watching what other folks like George Mitchell, Senator George Mitchell have done, using public service to benefit the people.

I think that's what it's about.

I can't compare myself to those people, but I know that I've tried my best.

I was in the private sector for 14 years and been in the public sector as district attorney prosecuting crime and making sure that we had the toughest laws to protect victims and that kinda thing.

But I've also as attorney general fought the good fight, I think, and stood up for the people of Maine, whether they're victims of crime, whether they're working people, small businesses all over the state, helping seniors fight fraud, standing up to the big pharmaceutical companies for ripping off Maine consumers and Maine government, standing up to the polluters and Volkswagen of America, standing up to Wall Street giants for their part in causing the recession of 10 years ago.

That's what I've done, and I don't apologize for that.

I think I've done a good job, and I hope to do better as governor.

- Thank you, Janet.

Thank you, Janet, and that does wrap up the first part of this Your Vote 2018 debate.

We're going to be right back after a quick break.

(stately orchestral music) Election day is November 6th, and Maine Public's Your Vote 2018 online resource offers important information about the candidates and issues you will be voting on.

Find profiles of all the candidates in the gubernatorial, 1st and 2nd District, and U.S.

Senate races.

There's information regarding the ballot questions as well as links to interviews and news reports from Maine Calling and the Maine Public Radio news team.

All of Maine Public's debates are available here with on-demand video or audio, and you can find the complete radio and television broadcast schedule.

And on election night, check in for up-to-the minute results from across the state.

You want to be a well-informed voter and access reliable and thorough information.

Maine Public is your source.

Go to mainepublic.org/yourvote.

(stately orchestral music) Welcome back to this Your Vote 2018 debate between the candidates for governor, I'm Jennifer Rooks.

Now we offer a chance for the candidates to ask questions of each other.

Candidates will have 20 seconds to pose the question, and the other candidate will have one minute to respond.

And the questioner will have a chance to follow up briefly, if necessary.

Let's see here, I have a piece of paper that tells me who goes first.

Alan Caron asks Shawn Moody a question first, go ahead.

- Shawn, eight years ago, we had another Republican businessman coming before the state saying because he was successful in business, he could be successful as a governor.

And despite the few things that he did in the first two years that you pointed out, overall, he was not.

So I wanna know how you will handle the complexity that happens.

You know, we've both been in business.

You tell people what to do, and they do it.

That's not how it works in government, so how're you gonna handle all of these forces comin' at you from all sides?

- Yeah, well, that's kind of a misnomer.

I think people that get into business and maybe think that they're gonna be the boss and boss people around don't stay in it very long.

You know, I've been in it 40 years, and I empower people, I don't overpower people.

Again, we're a coworker-owned company.

I gave stock, personal equity, to the coworkers that work so hard to help build our company.

Our company since 2003 has grown at a average of 20% a year since 2003, so we have coworkers that literally have over $200,000 in their retirement account as part of a coworker ownership.

So if you look at anything I've been involved with, Alan, gettin' on the Bypass Committee, town of Gorham, gettin' that through, the University System and Community College, I've been on the Executive Committee, the Investment Committee, the Human Resource Labor Relations Committee negotiating contracts across five labor units.

I know how to play as a team.

I'm a leader, and that's what we need in the state government right now.

We need a leader that has a vision for the people of Maine, that has a proven trace record of success.

- Terry Hayes, you may ask Alan Caron a question.

- You know, Jennifer, I've described this process as an 18-month-long job interview with about half a million Mainers, and I've never been asked to pose a question to another job applicant, so I'm gonna defer to Alan and give him a minute to say whatever he'd like to to folks.

- Here's the thing.

There was a report just over a month ago by the state labor office that said in the next eight years, we will create 100 new jobs in Maine.

Now, when you hear that we're at full employment and a booming economy, remember that data point.

And the presumption there was very simple.

We will keep doing the same thing we've been doing for 30 or 40 years, the same small, tired ideas coming from both parties.

If you want change, if you want more than 100 jobs over the next eight years, you have to do something different.

We have to think differently, and we have to have some bigger, bolder, more transformative ideas than we're getting out of this process right now.

Thank you.

- Janet Mills, you may ask Terry Hayes a question.

- Oh, thank you.

Terry, you and I both support ranked-choice voting, and we would implement it, obviously, if it were possible in this race.

Lemme ask you, if it were available in this race, who would you vote for second?

- Oh, thank you, Janet.

So I'm gonna really feel like the kid that won't play on the playground, because I've been asked that question before, and I don't answer it because we don't have ranked-choice voting.

- But if we did?

- I'm telling you, I won't answer that question.

You know, it's interesting to me, though, Janet, that you pose it what way because you're the one as attorney general that tried to stop it from being implemented in the first place, having written a number of pieces or arguments to propose that we shouldn't be having it.

We don't have it now, so I don't get a second choice.

I've already voted, and I didn't have a second choice.

I don't make one in this race.

- [Janet] May I respond to her comment?

- [Jennifer] Yes, briefly.

- Because clearly, the Maine Supreme Court agreed with my attorney general's opinion that the Maine Constitution, when it says if you win by a plurality in a state election, you've won.

That can't be overcome without a constitutional amendment.

And as Terry and Alan and Shawn know, I've said repeatedly, if I become governor, I'll sit down and help write a constitutional amendment that will make ranked-choice voting available in this kind of election.

- Shawn-- - Can I just add something if I may?

- Yes, go ahead.

- The governor doesn't get to do that.

The legislature has to pass a constitutional amendment by a 2/3 vote.

Absent that, it'll never get to you folks and to you folks at home, and so as governor, we can be committed to the concept, but we can't make it happen on our own.

- The governor can write legislation.

(laughs) - Shawn Moody, you may ask Janet Mills a question.

- Yes, thank you.

Janet, you know, you've said just recently that you would never raise taxes on the middle class, but your track record doesn't back that statement up.

You've said publicly you wanna roll back or take away Governor LaPage's tax cut, so it's really helped the middle class.

You also voted to expand the tax base that would've taxed car repairs.

We collected $800,000 from our customers in sales tax.

That would've included labor, which would have been another $800,000 for our mechanics' and our folks' sweat.

So why would the Maine people trust, your record proves that you've raised taxes and you've increased budgets, so.

- I'm sorry, Shawn, I'm not sure what bills you're talking about.

Are you talking about something that the legislature passed like 14, 15 years ago?

- I think it was '08, I think it was, yeah?

- 'Cause I haven't been in the legislature for 10 years, so I haven't passed any tax legislation whatsoever.

- But it's a precedent.

- But I have said repeatedly, I am not in favor of tax increases.

I served on the Appropriations Committee, which is a lot bigger than the University budget and a lot bigger than the Community College budget.

It's more than a 15-person board that regulates this budget.

I served and fashioned seven budgets in four years, working across the aisle with Republicans like Sawin Millett and Karl Turner in a bipartisan fashion during some of the toughest economics times in Maine's history, and we did not to go tax increases.

We went to budget decreases and reprioritizing our expenditures.

We did that successfully, seven budgets in four years.

It's a tough thing to do.

And I say again, I am not interested in raising taxes on the middle class or on any citizens of Maine.

- [Shawn] Can I respond to that, please?

- [Jennifer] Yes.

- I'm a small business owner, and that tax increase and that package that you voted for, Janet, would've made about 200 extra businesses have to collect sales tax, which we don't get paid for.

We fill out all that paperwork, you're talkin' about small mom-and-pop operations.

They don't have time to fill out all this paperwork and collect sales tax.

It woulda really hurt the business community in Maine.

- And it wasn't enacted, so you know.

- Well, thank goodness.

- We're gonna turn to questions that come from the public now.

Candidates will have one minute to respond.

Question one comes from Richard Mackinnon in Cape Neddick.

What will you do to reduce the burning of fossil fuels in Maine in order to limit climate change?

Alan Caron.

- I have proposed as a bold idea to jumpstart Maine's economy and help with climate change that we commit ourselves to a 30-year plan for energy independence driven by solar technology and offshore wind second.

Solar technology is the disruptive technology of our time.

Within the next five to 10 years, we will be building buildings with solar-shingled roofs, solar glass, and battery packs where the furnace used to be.

We must commit ourselves to this technology.

If we do, $5 billion that is now going out of Maine every year to oil and gas companies around the world will stay here because we'll be producing our own energy, we'll be self-sufficient, all we need is the will to act.

Other states are doing this, Massachusetts, California, way ahead of us.

We've fallen behind for eight years.

We now must turn it around.

- [Jennifer] Terry Hayes, Richard Mackinnon wants to know what you will do to reduce the burning of fossil fuels in Maine in order to limit climate change.

- Well, I think that we've already done a number of things, and the public has already invested in a number of measures around research and development to try to change the way we're using fossil fuels in Maine.

We've funded opportunities around solar through tax incentives in the past.

We've funded the expedited wind and wind power research that's been going on at the University of Maine.

I would intend to continue those efforts.

And I also think we have to look at our, I look at the transportation piece around this more so than the home heating, because I think that's where the bulk of the negative impact comes for Mainers is how much we drive and what it's gonna be like to change that.

That's gonna be the hard piece for us to do.

Electric vehicles will help, but they're not necessarily reliable enough to get you where you need to be when you're going from Augusta to Houlton at this point in time.

So I think we have to work to make the technology available and incentivize people using it, and I would focus on the transportation piece.

- [Jennifer] All right, Janet Mills, Richard Mackinnon wants to know what you will do to reduce the burning of fossil fuels in Maine in order to limit climate change.

- Thanks, there could be no more important question or challenge facing the people of Maine and the people of this country.

As Alan rightly pointed out, the people of Maine spend about $5 billion of their money on fossil fuels, particularly heating oil, every year, and that's gotta be addressed.

You know, we've made some progress, heat pumps, 30,000 heat pumps have been installed across the state of Maine, weatherization is important to reduce the usage of fuels of any sort, weatherization of the oldest housing stock in the nation.

But transportation is also important.

50% of our carbon footprint comes from transportation sources.

We do have money right now from settlements that should be and supposed to be used to retrofit diesel engines, two-liter diesel engines and whatnot, and make them more user-friendly and less polluting.

The money is there, and the money is there to install charging stations up and down I-295 all the way up to Houlton and beyond, up to Fort Kent.

The money is there, and we need to do that, encourage-- - Oh!

- Electric vehicles.

(laughs) - [Jennifer] Thank you, Shawn Moody, what would you do to reduce the burning of fossil fuels in Maine in order to limit climate change?

- Thank you, Jennifer.

We were in the auto recycling business back in, we had a great run, and we took it from what was a junkyard to one of the leading auto recyclers in the country.

What I would do is revitalize the governor's Carbon Challenge, that's something we participated back in '07, '08, where it's a voluntary program that involved local municipalities, towns, nonprofits, businesses, and we basically put down what our fuel usage was, whether it's propane or gas, electrical usage, and then we would set voluntary targets, if we reduce our carbon footprint by 20%, 15%.

We had business, we had expos that brought in the latest technology and lighting, heat pumps, you know, other energy sources like variable-frequency drive motors, controls, switches.

So we revitalize that and have everybody that's in the state of Maine could benefit by lowering our carbon footprints individually.

We've been named an environmental leader by the DEEP.

We have been a champion on lowering our carbon emissions here in the state of Maine, are we're a good role model to do that right across.

The cheapest kilowatt is the one you never have to pay for.

- [Jennifer] Terry Hayes, this question is from Paul Jones in South Portland.

Aside from funding, budget, and all money-related matters, what is one thing you would do to improve or add to education, elementary through high school?

- That's a great question, great question, Paul.

I think we've had a significant challenge within our public education system because we have, we've whittled away at the two key components.

For me, they're teachers and time, instructional time.

We've put so much social service piece into our schools.

I think it's okay to deliver social services at school 'cause that's where the kids are, but when we keep whittling away at the school day, we shouldn't be surprised that we're not getting the learning results that we're wanting if we're not applying enough time and we're underpaying our teachers.

We need to, right now, if you're a teacher with a spouse and a child or a teacher with two children and you start your teaching career, you're eligible for public assistance everywhere in the state of Maine.

I think that's unconscionable.

So from my perspective, we have to change the way we pay our teachers, we must compensate them for the professional wages that they actually are earning and recognize that, and we have to identify the time that we need for that instruction to occur and make that sacrosanct inside the school day.

Those are the two things that I think are most important, and I would work with the educators to make them happen.

- [Jennifer] Janet Mills, Paul Jones wants to know, aside from money-related matters, what is one thing you would do to improve or add to education?

- Well, leadership from the top.

We need a consistent dialogue, a consistent leadership at the Department of Education, which has virtually been decimated.

We've had like eight different commissioners in eight years, less than eight years, acting commissioners, interim commissioners acting interim, temporary commissioners and sometimes permanent ones.

That's a problem, there's been no guidance from the Department of Education on critical things.

Secondly, and equally important, universal pre-K would be a priority of mine.

And I know we all talk about career technical education.

I would put a lot more money into capital investment in career technical education so they can have the right equipment to learn on.

What I hear from the 27 different CTEs across the state, they don't have up-to-date equipment, so I would work on that.

You know, I started a plumbing program in four schools myself with non-tax dollars, so I'm very devoted to that, to career technical education as well.

- [Jennifer] All right, and Shawn Moody, the same question to you.

Aside from funding, budget and all money-related matters, what's the one thing you would do to improve or add to K through 12 education?

- Well, I'm glad you structured it as K-12.

You know, the work we've done on the University System and Community College to get them to collaborate and work together, to share credits now across the system, I'll be honest with you, pre-K through 12 has not been at the table, they've been glaringly absent.

So we need to bring them so we can have a pre-K through 20 integrated public education system.

I've been workin' on a school business roundtable that we founded six years ago at the Gorham High School, and now with the town manager, the adult ed director, the superintendent, the president of USM, business leaders, we meet three times a year.

We re-implemented the co-op program which now is the GMG program.

We have apprenticeship programs, internships, job shadowing, we even got our educators to go on a bus tour to visit Pratt Whitney, Lancos Assembly Systems, IDEXX Labs, three world-class manufacturers, because the image was in the classroom from teachers, manufacturing, it's dingy, it's oily, it's greasy.

So getting those teachers out of the classroom into the world-class industries around the state of Maine let them tell their students what job opportunities would open up for them right here in the state of Maine.

- Well-- - We're gonna educate the educators.

- [Jennifer] Alan Caron, the same question to you from Paul Jones about the one thing that would improve or add to education, K through 12, that isn't just about spending more money.

- Yeah, I think like so many other problems, what we could use is a better attitude.

The current governor has called teachers a dime a dozen.

Nothing could be worse for retaining great teachers.

So I think respect for the difficult job that teachers are doing every day.

They're on the front lines of massive social and economic change in this country.

They're being asked to do more than ever before.

I was a low-income kid in the public school in the South End of Waterville.

If I hadn't had that school and those teachers, I would've been more lost than ever.

My fifth grade teacher saved me.

So I think we, this has to start at the top with attitude, and it's true of many other issues, too.

We've been saying things that are so destructive, so discouraging to the people of Maine and to the country.

We've been tearing down our own image, our own reputation, our own brand around the country.

So that, aside from money, and I think teachers oughta be paid more, I think we should have pre-K for kids through all the school systems.

Let's start with the right attitude.

- All right, well, we are about to take another break.

When we come back, we're gonna do the lightning round, and we're gonna have the closing statements from all the candidates.

We'll be right back.

(stately orchestral music) Election day is November 6th, and Maine Public's Your Vote 2018 online resource offers important information about the candidates and issues you will be voting on.

Find profiles of all the candidates in the gubernatorial, 1st and 2nd District and U.S.

Senate races.

There's information regarding the ballot questions as well as links to interviews and news reports from Maine Calling and the Maine Public Radio news team.

All of Maine Public's debates are available here with on-demand video or audio, and you can find the complete radio and television broadcast schedule.

And on election night, check in for up-to-the-minute results from across the state.

You want to be a well-informed voter and access reliable and thorough information.

Maine Public is your source.

Go to mainepublic.org/yourvote.

(stately orchestral music) Welcome back to our Your Vote 2018 debate between the four candidates for governor of Maine.

Now on to our lightning round.

In this segment, we're going to ask the candidates brief, very brief, or questions that should have brief answers, the questions might not be brief, maybe one, two, or three words.

And I'm gonna start with Janet Mills.

Do you support CMP's proposed transmission line (Mal laughing) project to bring hydro power from Canada to Massachusetts through Maine?

- Well, that's an essay question.

Look, I think we all have real serious concerns about it.

I wanna know how much money Hydro-Quebec is gonna-- - Oh!

- Make on this deal and how much CMP's gonna make and-- - [Jennifer] So is your answer maybe?

- My answer is probably not.

- Okay.

- Because there's so many unanswered, the people aren't being told the truth about what's going on there, I wanna know.

- [Jennifer] Shawn Moody.

- Yep, we need to protect the tourism industry up in that rural area, obviously, but there are benefits, bringin' broadband down.

We have to get a revenue stream out of that line.

Other than that, it's a no-go.

- [Jennifer] Okay, Alan Caron.

- Terrible idea for me.

(Mal laughs) - [Jennifer] Terry Hayes.

- Not at this time.

- [Jennifer] All right, you guys did better.

(all laughing) With the shortness.

All right.

Shawn Moody, do you support elevating the Katahdin Woods and Waters National Monument to national park status?

- You know, I think Maine, I would, I gotta be short, right?

- Yeah!

(Janet laughs) - We have a lot of land, we have a lotta parks, and no, at this point, we gotta let it see where it's goin'.

- [Jennifer] Alan Caron.

- I don't think that's necessary.

- [Jennifer] Terry Hayes.

- Not yet.

- [Jennifer] Janet Mills.

- I think if they preserved outdoor recreation, the traditional outdoor recreation uses, I wouldn't be opposed to it.

- [Jennifer] All right, so I bet, we're on Alan Caron now.

- Okay.

- Do you support a constitutional amendment to establish ranked-choice voting in state races?

(Mal laughs) I think I know what your answer is.

- Oh, how I wish we had it now.

(all laughing) - [Jennifer] Terry Hayes.

- Yes.

- [Jennifer] Janet Mills.

- (laughs) I second that motion.

Yes, I'd love to have it now.

- [Jennifer] Shawn Moody.

- No, it's not constitutional for a reason.

- All right, so Terry Hayes, would you support raising fuel taxes to support road and bridge repairs and improvements?

- Yes.

- Would you-- - No, no.

(laughs) - I'm sorry, Jennifer, that question?

- [Jennifer] Yeah, would you support raising fuel taxes to support road and bridge repairs and improvements?

- No, there's other way.

- [Jennifer] And Alan Caron.

- I think we have to replace the gas tax system with another system.

- All right, am I right, Janet, are you next?

Does that, is that, I don't know, remind me.

- I don't know.

(laughs) - Could be.

- All right.

- Don't listen to him!

- Janet Mills, do you believe-- (audience laughing) - No, you listen to me.

(Janet laughing) You wanna get ahead in life, you listen to me.

- Yeah, yeah.

- (laughing) Janet Mills, do you believe that under law, transgender individuals ought to have the same rights as other groups?

- Certainly, why not?

- [Jennifer] Shawn Moody.

- Everybody should be treated with dignity and respect, yes.

- Equal rights.

- Yes.

- Alan Caron.

- Absolutely, sure.

- [Jennifer] And Terry Hayes.

- Yes.

- Okay, I'm trying to make my notes so I get this right.

Shawn Moody, do you believe elected officials have an obligation to provide frequent access to the press and respond promptly to media inquiries?

- (laughing) Yeah, that's a leading question.

- Well, I've met with the press a lot lately, and I told 'em if I get elected, they can take the shin guards off.

(Janet and Jennifer laughing) - [Jennifer] Alan Caron.

- It's a pretty important idea in a democracy, isn't it?

- [Jennifer] Terry Hayes.

- Absolutely.

- [Jennifer] And Janet Mills.

- You'd find an open door in my office.

- All right.

- As you always have in my term as attorney general.

- [Jennifer] Alan Caron, do you support question one on the ballot that would provide home-based care services and pay for them with new taxes?

- No, I don't.

- [Jennifer] Terry Hayes.

- No.

- [Jennifer] Janet Mills.

- No, I think there are other ways to increase the level of home health care we need in the state, though.

- [Jennifer] All right, and Shawn Moody.

- No.

- [Jennifer] Terry Hayes, some communities have enacted tough restrictions or an outright ban on the use of synthetic pesticides.

Would you support a statewide measure?

- Not at this time.

- [Jennifer] Janet Mills.

- There are certain pesticides that are being looked at by some cities, and I think I would support some ban based on the science.

I will listen to the science.

- [Jennifer] Shawn Moody.

- Yeah, I'd have to look at the details behind that.

My first reaction would be no.

- [Jennifer] And Alan Caron.

- I'm inclined to say no, but I think towns ought to have the authority to do that.

- Okay, Janet Mills, do you support bolstering funding with a statewide bond issue for the Land for Maine's Future program so that more forests, farmland, and working waterfront can be protected from development?

- Yes, with greater emphasis on working waterfront that has been lacking in recent years.

- [Jennifer] All right, Alan Caron.

- I think it's been a great program, and we ought to continue and expand it.

- [Jennifer] Terry Hayes.

- Broadband's at the top of my list.

- [Jennifer] All right, and Shawn Moody, I'm sorry I skipped you.

(Janet laughs) It wasn't intentional.

- That's okay.

I'd have to look at the details around that, but again, we have so much land right now that's in conservation that's not payin' taxes, and I think the balance is being tipped.

- Okay, we're on to closing statements.

You guys are done with the lightning round.

And I have this in writing in front of me, so I'm gonna get it right.

Janet Mills, you're first.

- Thank you, you know, earlier this week, I got to greet a brand-new baby girl in my family, little Brooke, nine pounds of joy, love, and hope.

And as I awaited her arrival, I thought, what kind of world will she know, what kind of air will she breathe, what kind of water will she drink, what kind of public education will she have?

In nine days, your vote will determine what kind of world all of our children get to grow up in.

Will you turn back the clock, or will you vote for a future that is bristling with hope, opportunity, and prosperity?

As your governor, I promise to work for affordable health care, for an economy that rewards hard work, and for public schools where every child has a chance to succeed.

I'm running for governor because I know that the best chapter in our state's history has yet to be written, and I wanna write it with you.

Thank you very much for this evening's debate and for watching, and I look forward to working with you and hope to have your vote, go Red Sox.

- Terry Hayes.

- Thank you, Jennifer, thank you, Mal and Steve and the crew from Maine Public and all those of you at home that invited us into your living rooms this evening.

I'm Terry Hayes.

I think Maine deserves an experienced, collaborative, and independent leader, someone who can come to the governing from a perspective of what's best for all of Maine, not beholden to special interest groups, not beholden to party leaders or to folks that can write big checks.

I'm the only Clean Elections independent candidate on the ballot for governor, and I'm asking for your vote on November 6th.

I currently serve as your state treasurer, and in that role, I've worked with the Republican administration and with legislators on both sides of the aisle to help balance the state's budget and to make sure that we're paying our bills on time at the state just like you do at home.

We have a decision, as Janet mentioned, that we need to make.

We need to decide as we go forward do we wanna be defined by our fears or do we wanna be celebrating our aspirations?

I invite you to celebrate our aspirations by voting for Hayes on November 6th.

Thank you.

- Alan Caron.

- I have said in almost every one of these forums that these are four good people on this stage.

That doesn't mean all four of us would be a good governor.

This election isn't about personality or political party, it's about who can provide positive leadership that will bring us together and lift us up.

I lifted myself from poverty to prosperity through 30 years of running a business.

I was a high school dropout who earned a master's degree from Harvard.

I started workin' with my hands and ended up writing books about Maine's future.

I see what Maine can become with leadership, with vision, and with the courage of new ideas.

I see what Maine can become.

We have great potential, but we need strong, smart, and caring leadership that's comfortable with change and embraces the future.

That's what I'm trying to offer for you.

- Shawn Moody.

- Thank you, Jennifer, thanks for hostin' this.

Yeah, and I hope the Red Sox are gonna win a World Series tonight.

Maine voters have an important decision to make on November 6th.

I'm the only candidate in this race with over 40 years of executive experience creating jobs and growing Maine's economy.

I'm an outsider, I'm a businessman, I'm a family man.

Now is not the time to turn Augusta back over to the politicians.

The problem with politicians, they would like you to think they have the answer to all the problems.

The fact is, politicians are a major cause of our problems.

Some say you can't run a state like a business.

I say we can't afford not to.

I can't wait to roll up my sleeves and go to work for you.

I'm askin' for your vote on November 6th.

Maine's best days are ahead of us if we work together.

Let's get it done.

(audience applauding) And that is the final word.

Thanks for joining us for this Your Vote 2018 gubernatorial debate.

If you missed any part of this program, you can see it in its entirety on demand at mainepublic.org/yourvote.

For all of us here at Maine Public and at the Gracie Theatre, I'm Jennifer Rooks.

Thank you for joining us.

(stately orchestral music)