How Should We Live?

by David E. Anderson

What is the good life? Is it dinner with the family, a walk in the woods, a baseball game at the local park?

More importantly, is there an ethic within the contemporary, technologically dominated culture of America that gets us to the good life?

These are the questions philosopher Albert Borgmann wrestles with in his most recent book, REAL AMERICAN ETHICS: TAKING RESPONSIBILITY FOR OUR COUNTRY (University of Chicago Press, 2006).

post_howshouldweliveHis answer is yes, all of those occasions — dinner, walking, the shared festivity of a game — are part of the good life. But, he contends, it isn’t easy to get there from here in our consumption-oriented culture. Getting there will involve, first, the difficult but essential project of revealing the role technology and its fruits play in everyday life. Secondly, there must also be a willingness to abandon some of the habits made possible by technology in order to embrace some of the more burdensome activities from which technology has freed the affluent West. In particular, Borgmann wants to see a return to “focal” practices such as the family dinner and the creation of civic space that is given over to festival and celebration.

Borgmann is one of the country’s subtlest thinkers about the impact of technology and consumption on American life. Putting technology in its place — that is, understanding it not only as a collection of devices such as televisions, computers, and microwaves but also as a culture, a way of life — has been Borgmann’s task in some half dozen books over nearly a quarter of a century, including POWER FAILURE (Brazos, 2003), which looks specifically at Christianity in the culture of technology and what resources it might deploy to resist technology’s attenuating impact.

In his new book, Borgmann says he wants to “come to philosophical terms” with America and draw “a moral portrait of how and what we are actually doing and what we could and should be doing.” America is a decent society, he says, but there is a hollowness at its center. America is important, he says, not just because he lives here (he teaches at the University of Montana in Missoula), but because it “is culturally the oldest sibling of the global family. It has been the first [country] since the late nineteenth century to move through the states of technological development and to experience their blessings and burdens.”

Is it possible, Borgmann asks, “to say something coherent and substantial about the norms and values that people in this country observe or ought to follow?”

He rehearses the influence of several approaches to ethics — theoretical, utilitarian, and practical — and the contribution of such thinkers as Thomas Jefferson, as well as the more recent work of Harvard public policy professor Robert Putnam and philosopher John Rawls, in shaping America’s ethical culture. Even architect Frank Lloyd Wright makes a significant appearance.

His touchstone, however, is Winston Churchill, and what he calls the Churchill Principle. In a 1941 speech to Parliament as it debated how to rebuild the House of Commons, destroyed by Germany’s aerial bombing, Churchill said, “We shape our buildings, and afterwards our buildings shape us.” Borgmann takes Churchill’s dictum and applies it not only to the physical, built environment, such as the decision to build the interstate highway system (whose effect, writes Borgmann, has been to induce driving and give us “an inconsequential experience of our world”), but also to the political, economic, and cultural environment.

Borgmann is no Luddite, nor is REAL AMERICAN ETHICS a shrill screed against all technological devices. He is not interested in indicting the American middle class and its technology-created and consumption-driven affluence. As he writes in POWER FAILURE, the reaction of the Christian to the rule of technology in everyday life “should not be reaction but restraint. Technology ought to be revoked as the dominant way of taking up with the world and relegated to securing the margins and underpinnings of our lives.” He celebrates, for example, medical technology for its ability to overcome sickness and disease, and fuel technology that creates a furnace providing warmth against the elements.

Borgmann
Albert Borgmann

But the dominance of technology has created a certain malaise, a vacuity at the center of American culture that results in a disconnectedness to real life brought about not only by the sheer quantity of commodities, but also by commodification — the process of removing things once thought “priceless” from their context, time, place, and community, and putting them into the marketplace where they are turned into commodities that can be purchased. “Today what we are typically in touch with are the machines of production and the commodities of consumption” rather than reality, Borgmann writes.

Contrary to both critics and defenders, for Borgmann technology is not an impartial tool. It stands under moral evaluation and ethical judgment:

The ways we are shaped by what we have built are neither neutral nor forcible, and since we have always assumed that public and common structures have to be one or the other, the intermediate force of our building has remained invisible to us, and that has allowed us to ignore the crucial point: We are always and already engaged in drawing the outlines of a common way of life, and we have to take responsibility for this fact and ask whether it is a good life, a decent life, or a lamentable life that we have outlined for ourselves.

One of the strengths of the book is Borgmann’s recognition that there isn’t a simple recipe or program to get to the good life. He dismisses programmatic reforms suggested by both the right and the left, although his sympathies are clearly with a liberal social reform agenda, even as he argues that it alone will not achieve the cultural transformation necessary for the good life. “The items on political agendas are too narrow to make a moral difference to ordinary middle-class life even if they were perfectly enacted. Prayer in schools would make us no more religious. Bans on gay marriage do nothing to strengthen families. Outlawing abortion would not make us care more deeply about the lives lost to disease and starvation,” he writes. Liberal reform programs such as a minimum annual income and universal health care are criticized because “we don’t know what their moral purpose is should they ever be enacted.”

Rather, the key is reappropriating “practices,” and the fundamental “practice” is gathering at the dinner table (“a focal point of rest and celebration”). Others include taking a hike, attending a game or concert, and communal celebrations and festivities such as going to church. Borgmann makes it clear that there is both a private, hearth-centered aspect to the good life, and a civic and public dimension.

Such practices — what might be called a “re-burdening” because they require taking on tasks that technology freed us from and that commodities do no require for their consumption — are the beginning of putting technology in its place and reconnecting with reality. Borgmann is not naïve enough to believe that “moral success” or what he calls “grace” will attend every family dinner. “We can be sure, however, if we never sit down to dinner, attend a game, or go on a hike … that grace will rarely descend on us.

“If, to the contrary, we are faithful in our practices, good things happen more often than not. To make room for grace in our lives, then, is a sensible prescription, though not a fail-safe recipe.”

practicing-our-faith-coverBorgmann’s discussion of practices will put some readers in mind of the Lilly Endowment-funded Practices of Faith book series, especially PRACTICING OUR FAITH (Jossey-Bass, 1998) edited by Dorothy C. Bass. In that volume, some dozen theologians and ethicists look at renewing a host of Christian practices, including Sabbath-keeping, hospitality, singing, and household economics. “Change touches us in our homes, workplaces, hospitals, and schools; it tests our relationships and shapes our desires, altering our sense of what we can expect from others and what we should expect of ourselves,” Bass and co-author Craig Dykstra write in the book’s opening chapter. “On the grand scale, change shows up in our major technological advances and global shifts in population. But in the end it reaches into the kitchens and bedrooms even of people who rarely travel and never use a computer… The basic activities of life are shifting all around us, and we are being pushed in directions we never intended to go.”

In POWER FAILURE, too, Borgmann connects his idea of the “re-burdening” of activity, of “counter-practice” specifically within Christian tradition, especially the lives of the Desert Fathers.

He argues that while technology will continue to dominate everyday life, the Christian should seek to relegate technology “to securing the margins and underpinnings of our lives.” He calls for a “radical theology” of technology and invokes the practices of ascetic tradition and early monastic communities: “The passage through technology discloses a new or an ancient splendor in ascesis. There is no duress or denial in ascetic Christianity. On the contrary, liberating us from the indolence and shallowness of technology, it opens to us the restive engagement with life.”

In looking at the public dimension of the good life, Borgmann argues that the “region of American society where a sense of real ethics is alive is the one where human welfare, nature, and art are held sacred and where the claims and lessons of history are honored.” Again, he eschews the liberal-conservative polarity to argue the country is much less divided than pundits and politicized commentators would have us think, although the conventional divides are sometimes made so prominent they obscure the places where “real ethics” may thrive.

Borgmann finds some energetic social movements contributing to restoring the good life. They include the new urbanism and its stress on densely settled neighborhoods with farmers’ markets, street musicians, and a city fabric that invites walking; environmentalism that “in its loftier aspirations” seeks to make people get in touch with mountains and rivers; and the “voluntary simplicity” movement. But because these reform efforts are dispersed, their effect on politics and society is weak, he argues.

Christians and non-Christians alike might have trouble with Borgmann’s brief and sketchy prescription for renewing the public square and its sense of celebration and festivity, especially as he outlines it in POWER FAILURE. There he argues that without tax support, genuine communities of celebration are impossible: “Public support is needed, for without it communal celebrations will founder on the shoals of marginality, injustice and instability.” He seems to feel that the celebration of national holidays do not touch the deeper aspirations of the people and have become emptied of their significance. His solution, however, is to lower the wall of separation between church and state so that publicly supported religious celebrations, which, presumably, do embody the deeper aspirations of people, have their place in the public square.

Borgmann is aware of the complexity of the issues and the liberal fear of religious intolerance, but he cites a statement by the Italian Roman Catholic bishops arguing that the Catholic liturgy should be seen “as a cultural event.” He adds, “And mindful of the religious diversity in the United States, we should invite our Jewish and Muslim friends and all religious people of goodwill to do likewise.”

He does not come back to that idea in REAL AMERICAN ETHICS. Instead, he returns to the centrality of the dinner table, where he says it is possible to become broadly familiar with the width and depth of American culture. “Whatever grace and friendship come from that realization, there needs to be the wider recognition of the economic and military power that has been generated by American culture, and there has to an acceptance of the moral obligations that follow from power,” he writes, adding in an especially insightful and provocation remark, “Although the celebration of dinner should be wholehearted, it cannot be unreserved. Celebration has to imply the determination to widen the circle of well-being until it includes everyone in this country and on earth.”

REAL AMERICAN ETHICS is a salutary and important work. It reveals the often invisible structures of the culture we have constructed, and it points the way to holding some of its forces at bay.

David E. Anderson has also written for Religion & Ethics NewsWeekly on novelist Marilynne Robinson and singer Bob Dylan.

Broadcasting God

Broadcasting God
by Tracey Wangler

A video of a four-year-old girl reciting Psalm 23 from memory. A parody of the ’90s hip-hop hit “Baby Got Back” called “Baby Got Book.” “A Letter from Hell” to motivate Christian students to share their faith in Jesus with their friends. These are three of the more than 25,000 videos available on a new video-sharing Web site called Godtube.com that features over 1.5 million hours of Christian video, more than any other Christian broadcast platform, according to Chris Wyatt, Godtube’s CEO and creator.

godtube-postGodtube was the fastest growing U.S. Web site in August. It experienced 973 percent growth between July and August, and there were 4 million visitors to the site in October alone. It combines many of the well-known features of other sites (Myspace.com, Facebook.com, Youtube.com) popular among teenagers and those in their 20s and 30s, such as opportunities for social networking, video chats, and user-submitted videos that range from cute home movies to music videos to church presentations.

Wyatt, 38, says he knows “the power of video” and understands the need to make Web sites user friendly. He worked as a producer at CBS before deciding to go to the evangelical Dallas Theological Seminary, where he is now a student. He says he created Godtube as a class project because he was alarmed after reading in a 2006 evangelism magazine study that the percentage of Christians who attend church regularly will drop 50 percent by the year 2025.

Godtube “is a tool to extend experience like never before,” according to Wyatt. But it is not a substitute for real community and real people, argues Dan Smith, creator of the comic “Baby Got Book” video in praise of big Bibles. Smith says he does not attribute the success of his video or Momentum Christian Church, a nondenominational church near Cleveland, Ohio, where he is the lead pastor, to Godtube, and he expresses the need for human interaction as part of the faith-growing process. “Nothing can replace interaction. It’s about a relationship,” says Smith.

“This [Godtube] is not a substitute for church by any means,” Wyatt acknowledges. The goal, he says, is to “help the local church expand its message locally and globally.” (The Web tagline of the Godtube site urges “Broadcast Him.”) Because many people live today in gated communities, he says, it’s just that the best way to reach them is through their computers.

Wyatt considers the world’s 2.1 billion Christians to be Godtube’s audience but says the site doesn’t serve only Christians. It is available to the 4 billion people who are not Christians, according to Wyatt, but who are “seeking to experience faith in a new way.” Believers and nonbelievers alike are all welcome to post videos and comments, and there is a channel on Godtube called “Nonbelievers Seeking Answers,” where videos such as “Rapture–End Times” can be found.

Response to Godtube is not all positive. Some have posted critical comments in blogs and on the site, specifically in response to the video “Letter from Hell,” saying it tries to scare the Christian faith into viewers. Others object that the site’s comments and videos can get out of hand. While Godtube allows users to post their own videos and comments, everything that goes up on the site is monitored by a team of “mostly theological students” before being posted, says Wyatt. This process prevents vulgar language and dangerous behavior from being broadcast, according to Wyatt, and it preserves the family-friendly atmosphere he says he intends. Wyatt assures that Godtube is not a religious organization, nor does it represent “one church with one view. It is open to tough questions.”

Despite its rapid rise in popularity, the site hasn’t even gotten started, according to Wyatt, who says he has big plans for Godtube, most of which he would not divulge. He did say there is an “unprecedented partnership” in the works, and original products such as online lectures and newscasts from Godtube headquarters in Plano, Texas, are also on the horizon.

“Godtube is a built car and it’s sitting in the garage,” says Wyatt. “We are just getting ready to take it out.”

Tracey Wangler, a junior at Olivet Nazarene University in Bourbonnais, Illinois and a participant in the Washington Journalism Center program, is an intern at Religion & Ethics NewsWeekly.

Judy Collins Extended Interview

Read more of Kim Lawton’s interview with Judy Collins:

collins-extendedinterview-2Q: Themes of spirituality run throughout your book. How important is spirituality to healing from a catastrophic loss?

A: I wrote the book THE SEVEN T’S after I had written a book called SANITY AND GRACE, about suicide, particularly about my experiences with the loss of my son to suicide in 1992 and my own experiences with my suicide attempt as a teenager. I always have a lot of empathy for teenagers who feel kind of blocked off and challenged, and, you know, so much is coming at them at that age. And I also wanted to talk about the way that I was able to get through that terrible and difficult loss. I was going to only address suicide survivors in THE SEVEN T’S, but I realized, after talking to so many people in survivor groups, that there are a lot of things that are similar to catastrophic loss or sudden loss. But also there is the issue with suicide that is particularly pertinent only to suicide, and I wanted to talk about the things that I did. A lot of them are spiritual. A lot of them are just practical, and I thought that it would be a practical way to reach a peaceful, spiritual — some kind of grace around loss. That’s not easy to do and it’s not easy to say. I think everybody grieves in a different way, but I wanted to tell my process. It involves a lot of meditation. I think life, in general, involves a lot of meditation of some kind, whether you like walking by a river or whether you like a formal kind of meditation. There are other very practical things like getting up and getting a good meal, and making sure that you have therapy. That is very necessary, whether it’s talk therapy or whether it’s art therapy or music, and I have found music to be a spiritual aspect and also very healing.

Q: In what ways has music had a spiritual aspect for you?

A: The things that count to most of us are not things we can touch, and they’re not things we can even describe. The things that move us and that change us, I think, and nourish us are music and art and painting and singing and all the things we can’t see. We hear them. We look at things. We internalize things, but we can’t really say what is it about hope? Hope — you can’t touch it. Pain and loss — you can’t touch it, but you know you feel it. So the things that I feel are the most important things in my life — love and hope and courage and attitude — and so all of my life, with music, I have had an inspiring kind of other-worldly voice or voices sometimes, whether it’s Mozart or whether it’s Pete Seeger or songs that I — or whether it’s pop music, whether it’s Lennon-McCartney. It’s always mystical in a way, and it heals me, and it heals other people. I think I was given music so that I could get through life and be the first participant in the healing — of making my own music.

Q: One of the T’s is transcendence. That’s part of it, isn’t it?

A: Transcendence is a very important piece of recovery. I’ve used my own experience in getting through this difficult time and the things that I’ve learned in the now 15 years since my son’s death, and I think that a lot of my present mental health is because I’ve been able to talk about this. I’ve been able to go to therapy. I have been able to talk to other people who’ve gone through these things. It’s very important to find somebody who’s experienced something like this so that they can help you, and there’s something very intimate and spiritual about just talking with someone about it. When I do book signings, for instance with the book about suicide, I go to, of course, to perhaps a keynote speech and then I sign books afterwards for, sometimes, mental health groups, sometimes suicide prevention groups, sometimes general mental health, sort of body, mind, and spirit groups which I work a lot of with, because I base a lot of my own recovery on alternatives, on meditation, on exercise, which I think changes my mood and makes me feel better and calmer and physically better as well as mentally and emotionally better. So in those talks with people, after I do my sharing, I then get to meet people and talk one to one when they come to have me sign books, and quite often I’ll find the dialogue is that we are sharing our stories. They’ll tell me what happened with them. I will tell them what happened to me. Over the course of time, of course, you don’t think about transcending or getting over this quickly or let me just get through this, let me just get through today, and that’s part of what I think is very practical about THE SEVEN T’S — truth and trust and treasuring and therapy and treating yourself well. I find that the transcending idea of appreciating being alive, which I certainly didn’t feel at first, has come slowly but surely, and with it a conviction that there is, in a sense, a kind of cultural responsibility to have the most joyful and the most productive life that I can, even in the wake of that kind of loss, that particular loss in my case. But you go through, and you go to another place. It’s not the same. It’s different. It’s changed. You’re changed. That’s a transcendent experience.

Q: You write in the book that you think loss is part of God’s plan. That’s a hard thing, I think, for people to hear, especially people who want to have an image of a loving God or an ultimate good. How do you tell people that?

A: I don’t know about other people’s beliefs, and some I know about don’t make me very happy. But my own has evolved over the course of years. I was originally raised as a Methodist with very, very free-wheeling Emersonian philosophy thrown in. So my mother’s a Unitarian, and I’m probably a humanitarian — I don’t know. But I believe in a lot of things that caught my spirit when I was young. Music was the most important, but the idea of forgiveness and the idea of resurrection in terms of every day is a brand new day and every moment is a chance to renew your efforts to be the best you can possibly be and be the most of service that you can possibly be. I don’t doubt that trouble is here for us to solve. I think our whole attitude about what comes to pass in our life is — I have a friend who says each trouble is absolutely, perfectly crafted for what I need to go through in order to grow. I happen to believe that. And it’s not that I believe in fate and we’re all, you know, destined to live out a certain way. But I don’t think that people learn about certain kinds of things in life unless they experience loss. And we’re losing from the time we get here. We lose our parents. We lose our friends. We lose our innocence. We lose a lot of things. Hopefully a lot of the habits that we developed to get through life can be removed if they are destructive, for instance. So we’re always changing and we’re always, hopefully, with help — and I need all the help I can get from all kinds of sources. So I don’t just limit it to prayer or meditation or therapy or music. But I also trust and very much need my friends and my family to go through what life presents, as they need me.

Q: You mentioned your Methodist background. To what extent does that still have an influence on you? Methodists are known for their hymn singing, their music, but are there other aspects of it?

A: Well the hymn singing really was major in my life, because I was in the choirs. I was in the choirs in school and in church and in the operas that Dr. [Antonia] Bricco conducted, you know, Pagliacci and Eugene Onegin. And so I was always singing or in a choir or some kind of group or solo singing myself. So the hymns really stir me. The hymns are very uplifting. And, of course, Amazing Grace, which I’ve found — my grandmother taught it to me, and then I sang it during the ’60s and the ’70s and recorded it. It’s always meant a lot to me. It’s always meant transcendence, and it doesn’t matter what religion you are or what gender you are or what belief you are, what country you come from. It always seems to move people, and I think it’s because grace comes in all kinds of packages.

Q: Does it still mean something to you? You’ve sung it however many hundred thousand times. Does it still have that meaning?

A: Well, it has to. It has to. I mean, otherwise I would have to stop singing it. But my idea about music and about art is that you always treat it as it’s the first time you’ve ever heard it and the first time you’ve ever sung it, and hopefully the first time anybody else has ever heard it, trusting that they might know the words.

Q: How does that fit with your practice today with Self-Realization Fellowship?

A: I found SRF http://www.paramahansayogananda.org/ and I’ve done a lot of different kinds of meditation. I would go and hear Krishnamurti. I read a lot of spiritual books. I just like them. I’m reading Stephen Mitchell’s book right now called THE GOSPEL ACCORDING TO JESUS. People have told me that — my husband, who was a Lutheran, grew up with what they called a red-line Bible. These are Bibles where it’s just the words that Jesus actually spoke. I think of Jesus as a total rebel because he was saying things that were completely out — forgive your enemies? Are you kidding? What a concept — very revolutionary, actually. So I read a lot of I guess you would call it Bible stories. I’m fascinated by this person who was at the same time healing and taught us a new way to look at things. I’m fascinated by the process of how the Eastern religion fits into my life, how Buddhism may affect me. You see in the house there are a number of Buddhas and figures. There’s St. Francis, too, but there are a lot of Buddhas from around the world. When I made my movie about Dr. Bricco, my great teacher, Antonia, and I had known her for years, and she was a very — she was Dutch and Italian and very — there was Beethoven in one corner and there was Sibelius in another, and she conducted orchestras and wanted me to be a great pianist, and she was a very serious person. It broke her heart when I decided to sing folk music. And as the years went on and I wanted to tell her story in a film, I got a film crew together and went to Denver. Fifteen years, I guess, after I’d stopped playing – fourteen maybe. And in photographing, as you do, you go around and photograph the tchotchkes in a person’s house, and there was a little picture of Yogananda, and I thought, “What is that doing in here among the Beethovens and the Brahmses and the Debussys?” And I never asked her about it. I just kind of let it go. It sort of goes by in the movie and nobody ever mentions it, and I doubt if many people noticed it. And then, in the late ’70s, she and I were seeing a lot more of each other. She was coming through New York more often. And I had gone to Europe with her on the QE-2, first and only time I ever did that. And we were having lunch one day and she said, “Do you know anything about crea-yoga?” We were talking about her childhood and how difficult it had been. She was a foster child and had a rough time. And I said, “I don’t, no, I don’t know anything.” And she said, “Well, I want you to read Yogananda’s autobiography.” So that was the beginning. I read the book. I found out about him as a guru, as a teacher, as a meditator. He’d been her friend — I mean he was the person who convinced her that she could become a conductor when everybody else said, “Oh, no, you don’t want to do that. That’s not for women. That’s only for men.” So this has impressed me a lot, and I began by reading the book. And then I sent away for the meditation lessons, and eventually I was confirmed as a person who practices SRF, and it’s, you know, they say, you know, it’s not a perfect practice. You’re just trying to make progress all the time. But I do love it. When I did that meditation, which has a series of — yoga as you begin the meditation, I said to Louis, I remember saying, “Oh, this just does it. This is what I’ve been looking for.” So, consequently, I’ve stayed with that practice, and it’s very — it’s very comforting. It’s very revealing. It works. I think you have to find the things that work. And anything — I’ll do anything that works, if it’s walking by a river, if it’s joining a chorus, if it’s going and getting therapy, if it’s, you know, whatever it is. I try to be available to a solution. But, in terms of loss, my own personal voyage with this loss, I think it’s been essential. I don’t think I would have — I don’t think I could have made it, really. I just don’t. I don’t know how people do without that kind — without the inner battles. And, for me, the inner battles — I’m, as you know, relatively political. I’ve been active pretty much most of my life. But I do feel strongly that the first order of business is the inner wars, and, you know, you have to fight them when they — the way you can.

Q: What does your spiritual practice involve? How often do you do it? Do you meet with a group, or is it personal and individual?

A: I don’t meet with a group, although I feel that Daya Mata at SRF is sort of my guru, my teacher, and I talk to her from time to time. But I do the practice on my own, and that seems to be satisfactory.

Q: How often do you meditate?

A: I try to meditate in the form of the meditation which involves a lot of different kinds of breathing and silence and prayers. I try to do that a couple of times a day. I can do it in a car. I can do it on a plane. Sometimes — and it’s great to be able to formally sit, which is wonderful, but I can’t always do that, but then I’m not — I don’t have to be perfect. I think that draws people away from certain kinds of meditation. They think it has to be perfect and they have to go to that ashram, whereas Yogananda and a lot of other gurus talk about “the householder.” If you can get in touch with God at, you know, on a mountain by yourself, you can certainly do it in your own home. I love that idea that I can be a participant in life and still be on a journey that’s a spiritual journey.

Q: It seems to be a real blending of East and West.

A: Well, what I do is a blend, because I do other things, too. I do a lot of reading in other areas, and I love to go to church. I go to church. I was married in the wonderful Episcopalian [Cathedral of] St. John the Divine. I love the music. I love the ceremonies. I identify — you know, they say, which I think is really true, that if you’re doing one practice, any one of any number of practices, that if you are doing it in a serious way the other kinds of practices and kind of traditions will open to you as well. And I think that, in my case, I think I’ve found that that’s true. So although I may not believe in reincarnation specifically, I act as if it’s true.

Q: Looking back on all the different twists and turns, how would you describe this spiritual journey you say you have been on?

A: They say that your heart knows what it is you’re supposed to do and that if you can get quiet, that you can be led, and I think that’s true for all kinds of things. I think it is part of the creative process. It is part of the, you know, whether you decide you want to paint a tree or a house or a person or whether you want to go to Europe and study painting. It’s all that — those inner voices. And I think we get quiet enough and then we hear them, and that’s true also for what we do in our daily lives. My daily process is to try to do what I call morning readings, and I try to put things in my morning readings that are inspiring and that tell me, from other points of view, what’s good for me and what has worked before, and sometimes I also read more difficult things in that period because I’m quiet and I can absorb and learn something. Everybody has different habits that are healthy. My work process is very focused, because I’ve been a concert performer for so many years and I know that I have to show up at a certain time and I have to work for a certain length of time, and those habits get ingrained over a course of a lifetime so that you know things that work for you and things that don’t. It’s a learning process, but I think you always have to kind of — I have to move things aside a little bit so that I can be available for the thoughts and the ideas and the inspirations. It’s very important.

Q: Where do they come from?

A: I don’t know what I would call it. I think there’s a force in the universe that is available when I get desperate enough to reach out for it. And, actually, as a habit, I try to give myself the silence, and let that happen, whatever that is. I choose to call the protective nature of my sense of being guided God. But God is a funny word. People use it differently for different things. I probably mean something bigger than I can see and more powerful than I am.

Q: How healing was working on the song “Wings of Angels,” about the loss of your son?

A: It was very important for me to get back to my writing, and it took me quite a while, and when I was able to, I then found a way out. I had started right away writing meditations every day, and the meditations that I wrote right after Clark’s death, in the year that followed his death, formed a lot of THE SEVEN T’S. That’s where a lot of the quotations in THE SEVEN T’S came from. I collected quotes. So it’s 15 years, going on 16 years that I was doing that. I didn’t ever have a place to fit them in with what I was writing about other subjects, about suicide and about creativity as being a help through surviving. And when it came to writing THE SEVEN T’S, I found all that material was there. The quotes were there, the process was there. I just divided it into a series of seven chapters devoted to the seven, I think, essential ingredients in getting yourself through a difficult loss. But the song-writing was a parallel healing experience for me, and all those songs that I wrote coming through that loss — “Wings of Angels,” “Singing Lessons,” a song called “Checkmate,” a song called “Voyager” — these are things that I did record and have recorded on my last couple, three, four albums. They hung around for a long time before I had the courage to sing them, before I could bear singing them, and so it just takes time. I don’t think that there’s any doubt that those things helped me, and when I sing them they help me, because I’m very close to my son and, you know, he’s never disappeared. One thing I was told by a healing counselor after his death — I went to see before I went to his funeral, actually, in Minnesota, and she said, “You may not be thinking about this, because you may not realize it, but the dialogue with your son will never be over.” And that’s a great comfort, because I have dreams of him, and he’s, you know — I think about him. I kind of refer things to him sometimes, and he’s around here somewhere. I do think that the combination of different ideas about how do you heal from things is very important, and it’s a multi-layered — it’s not just one thing. It’s not just getting therapy, or just doing art, or just talking with your friends, or just meditating. It’s all these things combined, and I think that art and music [are] a huge part of this — very, very important. That’s why it just breaks my heart when I hear about schools that have taken the music out and art out of their curriculum, because it’s more important, quite frankly, than math for people to understand how to get through life, and to make it rich and meaningful.

Hunger in America

DEBORAH POTTER, guest anchor: Last week, the US government said more than 35 million Americans went without food at some point during 2006. This week, the non-profit group Bread for the World issued its own report recommending strategies for the US to combat hunger. Bob Abernethy sat down with David Beckmann, Bread for the World president and a Lutheran pastor, to discuss hunger in this country and what can be done about it.

BOB ABERNETHY: David, welcome.

Reverend DAVID BECKMANNN (President, Bread for the World): Thank you.

ABERNETHY: Put some flesh and blood, if you would on the statistics: 35-and-a-half million people in this country who — what happens?

Rev. BECKMANN: Well, in our country it’s not hunger like Ethiopia. The typical pattern of hunger in our country is that the family runs out of food. They may have food assistance from the government, but food assistance runs out by the end of the third week of the month. It’s not enough. So the moms go without food. The kids go without food maybe the last few days of the month. So then the whole month they don’t buy good-for-you food. They don’t have quite enough food.

ABERNETHY: Is this all over? All kinds of people?

post01Rev. BECKMANN: It is all over the country. It’s especially children, especially little children. In our country, one in four children under the age of six lives in a household that runs out of food, and even moderate under-nutrition does real damage, because the nutrition goes to the vital organs and the brain half shuts down. So kids aren’t alert. They’re naughty. By the time they go to kindergarten they’re acting up. Letting so many kids go hungry does real damage to our whole nation.

ABERNETHY: You at Bread for the World, you’ve been fighting this, fighting hunger for a long time. But your emphasis has shifted or is shifting from emergency measures to trying to fight poverty itself?

Rev. BECKMANN: Well, both. We’re working this year on farm bill reform, which is a good way to both deal with food assistance for hungry families and helping some families get out of poverty. Much of the money in the farm bill goes to affluent families; some very wealthy landholders have money in the farm bill. So there’s an opportunity this year to shift some of those resources, first, to farm and rural families who really need help to make a living; and then also to strengthen food assistance to hungry families in our country.

ABERNETHY: And how does what’s going here compare to what’s going on around the world?

Rev. BECKMANN: Well, Bread for the World works on both hunger worldwide and in our country, and the irony is that the world is making progress against hunger and poverty. Countries as diverse as China and Uganda and Chile are making progress, while in the USA, at least in this decade, we’ve been going the other way. We have more hungry and poor people in the country than we did in the year 2000.

ABERNETHY: And working people are hungry?

Rev. BECKMANN: Absolutely. It’s increasing numbers of working people. Nowadays, you know, if you go into a McDonald’s and there’s a lady behind that cash register, if she’s got kids at home those kids aren’t eating all the time. I’m a preacher, so I believe that if you don’t work you shouldn’t eat. It’s in the Bible. But the corollary is if you do work you ought to be able to eat, and that’s not true in our country anymore.

ABERNETHY: David Beckmann of Bread for the World, many thanks.

Rev. BECKMANN: Thank you.

Iraqi Refugees in Sweden

DEBORAH POTTER, guest anchor: The war in Iraq has forced millions to leave the country. Most refugees have stayed in the Middle East, but the country outside the region that’s taken in more Iraqis than any other is not the United States. It is Sweden, which had no troops involved in the invasion. As Fred de Sam Lazaro reports, the influx of refugees there is causing concern.

FRED DE SAM LAZARO: Sweden has long prided itself as a humanitarian society with cradle-to-grave welfare benefits. But to the fastest growing segment of its population, this Nordic nation, more than anything else, is safe.

At Friday prayer services in the city of Malmo are refugees from some of the world’s most violent conflicts: Bosnia, Somalia, Afghanistan, and, more numerous nowadays, Iraq.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN (speaking Arabic, through translator): Our topic today is adapting to Swedish life.

post02

DE SAM LAZARO: They are people like Haider Kassam al Tamimi. He left his wife and two small children in Baghdad after being threatened.

HAIDER KASSAM AL TAMIMI (Iraqi Refugee and Auto Mechanic, through translator): I was working for a government ministry in the electricity department. A private American company came in to work with the ministry, and the mujahideen were against the Americans. They sent me a threatening letter because I did not quit my job.

DE SAM LAZARO: Sweden took in some 9,000 Iraqi refugees in 2006, about half of all those who reached Europe or North America. The U.S., by contrast, took in just over 200 Iraqis last year.

TOBIAS BILLSTROEM (Migration Minister): If the U.S. had taken in as many Iraqi refugees as Sweden has done so far per year it would have been approximately 500,000 that the U.S. would have accepted so far, if you compare the amount of the populations.

DE SAM LAZARO: Proportionally?

Mr. BILLSTROEM: Yes.

DE SAM LAZARO: There were recent reports that Sweden planned to clamp down on the number of newcomers. But Dan Eliason, who heads the agency that processes asylum applications, says the basic asylum rule is unchanged.

DAN ELIASON (Swedish Migration Board): If you are individually threatened or tortured or killed or something like that, then you can, of course, have right to stay. I would say that probably we have the world’s most liberal and generous legislation when it comes to asylum matters.

DE SAM LAZARO: About one-fifth of Sweden’s nine million people today come from immigrant stock. Immigration is closely linked to the country’s post-war economic boom. It brought migrants from Yugoslavia, Greece and Turkey and in the 1970s, political refugees from Iran and Saddam Hussein’s Iraq, like Mustafa Diner. Today he co-owns a halal butchery whose soaring sales mirror the new demographics: $20 million a year of meat slaughtered according to Muslim custom.

MUSTAFA DINER (Businessman, through translator): We began in 1995 with four employees, including myself. Now we have 27 and could get much larger if we had more space. People want halal meat. The business has grown steadily.

DE SAM LAZARO: The steady recent growth of Sweden’s refugee population may be good for business, but it drew concern from people we talked to, even as many like the idea of Sweden as safe haven.

post03BRITT NORDEBRINK: I think it’s quite good but maybe we have difficulties in taking care of all of the refugees because they have so many problems. They have head [wounds] and so then they come to Sweden and they need psychological help.

GUN EDSTROEM: Perhaps it’s too many.

Ms. NORDEBRINK: Because we can’t take care of all of them.

DE SAM LAZARO: Are there too many here already?

Ms. NORDELBRINK: Yes, I think so.

ROBIN TRAVIS: You make sure that they get jobs, they get somewhere to live, and they get a place in Swedish society. Otherwise you create a problem.

DE SAM LAZARO: Others see problems. They link immigration to increased crime.

ULF WISTROEM (through translator): Unfortunately, we have imported a lot of crime from different countries. The immigrants that commit crimes make all the other immigrants look bad. This problem has made the right wing party get a lot of votes. We should accept less immigrants. We’re taking too many Iraqis, and it’s hard on our economy.

DE SAM LAZARO: Some refugee advocates say newcomers should get on-the-job training as well as the classroom learning and welfare benefits they already receive. Farbod Rezani, who works for an industry trade association, was himself a refugee in the early ’80s from the Iranian revolution. He struggled to find a job, he says, thanks to misguided if well-meaning policies toward refugees.

FARBOD REZANI: We don’t see people as ambitious people who want to make a living and to contribute something to the society, to their new home. We rather see them as victims — people who need to be taken care [of], you know. I didn’t come here to be a refugee.

AL TIMIMI (through translator): It’s hard to feel integrated. We don’t have the language.

DE SAM LAZARO: Haider al Tamimi, an auto mechanic, is frustrated no one will hire him until he can speak Swedish. He’s forced to crowd in with three others in a small apartment, amid an acute shortage of public housing. But for every story like his, some Swedes say they hear about others who don’t want to integrate.

PETER FRANKEL (Business Consultant): There are those who miss their homeland so much that they stay in their misery. In their mind, they stay there. You can see that clearly in the way they dress, in the way they insist on keeping their name and in reinforcing that go into conclaves.

DE SAM LAZARO: The conclaves he refers to are immigrant clusters like the Malmo suburb of Rosengard, where Hamid Feyli and his wife Selma Rahim live. They’ve spent 15 years here. He’s well settled in a job as a carpenter, and three of their four children were born here. Still, they say they will never be Swedish.

HAMID FEYLI (through translator): We don’t want to stay here. We are going to our Iraq. Our Iraq is rich. Our Iraq is powerful. We have petrol, agriculture. We have everything. We hope only that the leaders will do the right thing. We hope Iraq will be like Sweden. Actually, it can be better than Sweden.

post04DE SAM LAZARO: Complicating Sweden’s integration message is that technically the government still expects refugees to go back.

Mr. BILLSTROEM: We want to help people to return home to help to rebuild their country, because if we don’t, Iraq will remain an unstable nation for a very, very long period. And it doesn’t do Iraq any good that the doctors, engineers, the technicians, the bureaucrats, the administrators, even a few politicians sit here in Sweden.

DE SAM LAZARO: But he concedes that repatriation is likely to be years away. That makes retaining the original national identity difficult, especially for the next generation, even in an all- Muslim school.

BEJZAT BECIROV (Director, Islamic Center of Malmo, through translator): In the second generation, it will change. Parents still hold on to these dreams, but the children don’t.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN (singing): If you ask me who my God is, on whose name I call, if you ask me who my God is, he’s the God of us all, Allah the merciful.

DE SAM LAZARO: The approach at this government-funded Islamic school and the larger community center is to forge a new Swedish Islamic identity, leaving behind issues that divided members in their countries of origin.

Mr. BECIROV (through translator): This mosque is not imported. It’s on Swedish soil, a Swedish model so all Muslims should be able to be here. You cannot bring politics from your own countries here. We’re very clear: no politics from other countries, just Swedish politics.

DE SAM LAZARO: Still, his mosque has been firebombed three times in recent years. No one’s sure if it’s xenophobia or Islamic extremists who have condemned the center’s ecumenical approach. Amid the worry, however, there’s still optimism based on Sweden’s mostly positive history with immigration.

Mr. FRANKEL: So there’s a historic understanding or sense that given some time and cooling it, this will be something positive for Sweden. And we need those people in a lot of jobs. I mean, we really do. I think it’s a question of time, and I think there’s a strong consciousness of that, even though, of course, for the moment, perhaps for a couple of years, [it] will be — is tough, and it is irritating.

DE SAM LAZARO: One target of irritation, even resentment from all sides, is the United States.

AL TAMIMI (through translator): They call themselves liberators, but they are occupiers. Because of them these things happened in Iraq, and because of them there is no stability, security and peace in Iraq now. That’s my opinion. It’s because of the occupiers.

Mayor ILMAR REEPALU (City of Malmo): Sweden didn’t take part in the Iraqi invasion. If you look upon the second quarter this year, 4,500 came to Sweden and were accepted here; 2,500 went to Greece; 400 get to Spain and 180 to United States –180. That’s half the number that we accepted in Malmo in the time. How come?

DE SAM LAZARO: The U.S. has promised to sharply increase the number of Iraqis it will admit, but it will still be a fraction of those who will go to Sweden.

For RELIGION & ETHICS NEWSWEEKLY, this is Fred de Sam Lazaro in Malmo, Sweden.

In Memoriam

To mark Veterans Day weekend, Religion & Ethics NewsWeekly senior associate producer Patti Jette Hanley took pictures at Arlington National Cemetery and at St. James Episcopal Church on Capitol Hill in Washington, where on All Souls Day members of the parish read the names of Americans who died this year in Iraq, commemorating their sacrifice. This year has been the deadliest for the American military since the war began.

Children of Polygamists

FRED DE SAM LAZARO, guest anchor: Next, to southern Utah and to the pain of children cast out or escaping from polygamous communities. Polygamy was outlawed by the Mormon Church more than 100 years ago, but it has survived in pockets, largely isolated on the edge of Mormon society and the law. The recent trial and conviction of Warren Jeffs shed some light on the practices of the polygamist group he led, called the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. The Jeffs case has galvanized efforts to rehabilitate children leaving these communities who number anywhere from 600 to 1,000. Correspondent Lucky Severson provides a glimpse into their lives.

LUCKY SEVERSON: This is St. George, Utah, not far away from a polygamist town that’s been accused of driving away many of its young men.

KEVIN (to Bruce): Homecoming was so cool.

SEVERSON: It’s why there’s a new shelter here, funded by the state and private donors, to care for kids who have been kicked out of or ran away from the only home they ever knew — kids like Kevin and Bruce, who had been told that the outside world was a terrible place.

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Kevin

BRUCE: We were told everyone out here was bad and nobody cared about you. Nobody is going to help you.

KEVIN: Everybody kind of has a hard time. I mean, you always stick out because, I mean, you were raised so much different.

SEVERSON: When Kevin ran away he left a large family he was very close to. Michelle Benward, a psychologist, says Bruce and Kevin have suffered the trauma of separation from their families, and many boys like them are ill prepared to live in a regular society. And, she says, there are lots of them.

MICHELLE BENWARD (Psychologist and Vice President, New Frontiers for Families): I asked them, “How many kids are there like you?” They said, “There’s hundreds of kids like us.” And I really could not wrap my mind around the idea that there were hundreds of kids, a significant number of them under 18, living on their own.

SEVERSON: The kids come from a community about 40 miles east of St. George on the Utah-Arizona border. It’s a town of about 6,000, and most everyone here practices or believes in polygamy. It’s never been a place friendly to outsiders. The town was once known as Short Creek, which is why the boys are now known as the kids from the creek, even though today the place is called Colorado City by most people. Polygamists settled this isolated part of the world about 100 years ago, undoubtedly hoping to avoid snoopy neighbors and the authorities. But the world is growing smaller.

The Mormon Church condemns polygamy and outlawed it more than 100 years ago, but some breakaway groups still live it. For many years, authorities cast a blind eye on the open practice of polygamy. Although it’s illegal, polygamy is often difficult to prosecute. The men marry their first wife legally, then marry other women in secret ceremonies. But state officials started to get involved about the time the group, known as the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, or FLDS, got a new prophet. His name is Warren Jeffs, and he achieved international infamy when he was recently convicted of being an accomplice to rape for pressuring a 14-year-old-girl to marry her first cousin. Critics also accuse Jeffs of forcing young men to leave Colorado City and their families.

ELAINE TYLER (HOPE Organization): All my hours I was at the trial…

SEVERSON: Elaine Tyler founded the HOPE Organization to help salvage the lives of Colorado City rejects.

Ms. TYLER: I have no issue with polygamy, but marrying off little girls against a mother’s will and against a child’s will — that’s wrong. That’s child abuse, and kicking these little boys out to fend for themselves so that the older man can have multiple wives — that’s child abuse. That’s wrong.

SEVERSON: No one has proven that the boys were kicked out so the older men could have more wives, although that charge has been made by state officials. It’s disputed, however, by active polygamists who don’t belong to Warren Jeffs’ group.

post05MARLYNE: I think that came from anti-polygamists who had to find a reason: “Oh, it’s got to be because all the old men want the women.” I don’t think that you can say that’s the reason why those men, those young boys, are leaving or being sent out.

Ms. TYLER: About half of the boys I’ve spoken with have said that they were asked to leave. About half of them, they chose to leave. The ones who were kicked out, they — their offenses are something like flirting with a girl, watching a CD, movies, wearing short sleeves. I mean, they’re not really serious offenses. But down in the FLDS culture, they are “hanging” offenses.

KEVIN: Just too many rules. I mean, no movies, and no music, and no videogames, stuff like that. I mean, I could live without that. It was just more all you do out there is work, work.

SEVERSON: We were asked not to use the last names because the kids were concerned that what they said might cast a bad light on their families — families that outcasts like Kevin miss very much.

(to Kevin): What was the hardest thing for you?

KEVIN: My family. I mean, you miss them. They’re your family. That was probably the hardest — your mom, all your brothers and sisters that you were so close to growing up, because it’s such a tight knit community and all of a sudden, yeah, you’re not there anymore.

BENWARD: I can take my most grown young men here and watch them dwindle into a little boy talking about his mom.

SEVERSON: It’s not only boys. A number of young girls, like Melinda, have run away even after she was threatened by her father with eternal damnation if she didn’t comply with the principles of polygamy.

MELINDA: He just told me that if I didn’t get my act together then the Lord is going to strike me to hell.

(to Melinda): What did you dad say when he found out you were going for good?

MELINDA: He told me that he would way rather seen me dead, lying in a grave, than where I turned out to be now.

SEVERSON: For these fundamentalists, practicing polygamy is the only way to reach the highest kingdoms of heaven.

Ms. TYLER: You’d have to go back to the Joseph Smith doctrine. I mean, he said you’ve got to practice polygamy. It’s the new and everlasting covenant. If you don’t practice it, you’ll be damned. So the folks that now, today, are practicing polygamy, they follow the doctrine of the early Mormon scriptures. And they believe that that’s their ticket to heaven that’s going to get them to their eternal salvation by living plural marriage.

post03

Melinda

KEVIN: I couldn’t deal with the whole placement marriage thing. You don’t know who you’re going to get married. They just assign you to somebody. I mean, yeah, that’s kind of scary.

MELINDA: Out there, you’re like, “Oh, here’s your husband. You’re getting married to him. Have kids.”

SEVERSON: Melinda has 31 siblings.

Ms. TYLER: The girls are taught from birth that their role in life is to have babies and be a good priesthood wife. That’s — that’s their whole purpose in life is to get married and have children to build up the kingdom of God.

SEVERSON: We hear about girls getting married out there at 14 years old. Does that really happen?

MELINDA: Yeah.

SEVERSON: She says she lived for a while with Warren Jeffs’ 63rd wife who was 17 when she married him. Melinda says Jeffs dictates who girls should marry.

MELINDA: He married my sister when she was 18 to a 72-year-old.

LINDA: How was school today?

MARLYNE: Long.

SEVERSON: The two polygamist wives we spoke with, who are part of another polygamist group, say if 14-year-olds are being forced into marriage it’s the exception, not the rule.

LINDA: I think that was just a total exaggeration to get the rise out of the public about the young, all the young girls getting married, and having to marry these old men.

MARLYNE: It’s not like it’s all about sex. Your marriage is about family. It’s about relationship. It’s about the values that you have.

SEVERSON: But critics say enforcing those values, at least among Jeffs’ disciples, borders on abuse.

(to Melinda): Did your dad ever punish you?

MELINDA: Yeah, I was on house arrest for a while.

(to Melinda): What did that mean?

MELINDA: My — get an ankle bracelet on your foot, couldn’t go 100 feet without, within the perimeters of the yard.

SEVERSON: Everyone agrees that boys from “the creek” are good workers. Some started working construction when they were 10 years old, long days with sometimes no pay. The problem is most never get more than an eighth-grade education.

post06Ms. BENWARD: Most of their education is focused on religiosity and Warren Jeff’s’ perspective of the world. They don’t know the history of the United States or the Constitution. Most of them don’t have math or English skills.

KEVIN: They don’t teach you about sex, marriage, anything like that.

SEVERSON: And once these kids are on the outside, they often get into trouble.

MELINDA: I had hooked up with the wrong guy and started getting into like drugs and stuff.

Ms. TYLER: They’ve been told if they leave they’re damned to hell. So they say their attitude is, “I’m damned to hell anyways.”

KEVIN: What the majority of people do when they leave is they get way hard into the drugs, alcohol, stuff like that.

SEVERSON (to Kevin): Did you?

KEVIN: Yeah. For the first year I was into all that, and I mean, it just — it gets old just like everything else, and it ruins your lives, and so I’m pretty much out of all that now.

SEVERSON: Kevin’s adjustment to the outside world has been guided in part by Michelle. She’s involved in an effort to give these kids a chance at a different life. This home provides temporary housing. The staff will help the kids get an education and jobs. But still, Michelle and Elaine say it isn’t enough.

Ms. TYLER: There’s a lot of other ones out there. They’re living in their cars. They’re getting in a lot of legal trouble.

SEVERSON: Nine of Melinda’s brothers and sisters have left Colorado City, but 18 are still living there.

MELINDA: I think people should intervene. Like go out there and try to stop it.

SEVERSON: But polygamist wives we spoke with don’t see it that way.

LINDA: For some reason in the United States of America, “the land of the free and the home of the brave,” God forbid that we’re not allowed to live our religion.

SEVERSON: Will you join a church?

BRUCE: No. I think it ruined my whole church experience.

SEVERSON: Growing up that way?

BRUCE: Yeah. Nobody’s going to tell me how I’m supposed to live my life. It’s too scary because now I look back on it, I was like, I was so controlled.

SEVERSON: No one knows how many more kids from “the creek” will be coming out now that Warren Jeffs is in prison, and no one here is willing to talk about the future of this polygamist town.

For RELIGION & ETHICS NEWSWEEKLY, I’m Lucky Severson in Colorado City, Arizona.

Values Voter Summit

 

BOB ABERNETHY, anchor: Religious conservatives appear to have come out of their Values Voter Summit last week (October 19-21) just as divided as they were going in. All of the major Republican candidates spoke to the gathering. So far, evangelicals have not rallied around any one candidate. Mitt Romney and Mike Huckabee were the winners of a straw poll there. GOP frontrunner Rudy Giuliani finished in eighth place. Focus on the Family president James Dobson told the group he could never vote for a candidate who supports abortion rights.

JAMES DOBSON (President, Focus on the Family): You hear this a lot now, they talk about the lesser of two evils, choose the lesser. The only problem with that is if you choose the lesser of two evils, you’ve still chosen evil.

Our managing editor Kim Lawton has been following all of this.

KIM LAWTON: There’s a real, vigorous debate going on right now among religious conservatives about whether they should be embracing idealism or pragmatism. Do they support someone like Mike Huckabee who agrees with them on all their social issues, but many of them have doubts about whether he could win a general election, or do they go with someone like Rudy Giuliani, who disagrees with them on things like abortion but many people say might have a better chance of winning against someone like Hillary Clinton? So there’s a lot of disagreement about which route they should go. They’re also discussing a lot how important abortion should be. This has always been the number one issue for these religious conservatives, but should that be the only thing that they base their votes on? And some of the people in that community are saying you know what, if there are other issues that are just as important or, you know, important, we should not make abortion the only thing? But that’s very controversial within the movement.

valuesvotersummit-post01-stage

ABERNETHY: I think we should acknowledge that religious conservatives are not the only voters who insist that they have values, but back to Dobson. How much influence does he have still over this group?

LAWTON: He’s very influential among evangelicals. For decades he’s told them how to raise their children. They’ve looked to him for advice about voting. But they don’t do everything he says, and especially among younger evangelicals he doesn’t have as much influence. Many of them are pro-life like he is but also care about other issues that he doesn’t stress, things like the environment. So I think his influence isn’t as strong as it was some time ago.

ABERNETHY: Romney and Huckabee, as you said, did well in that straw poll. But it was not exactly a scientific poll, was it?

LAWTON: There was a lot of controversy about that because people could also vote online. At the summit itself Mike Huckabee was the runway winner. But when you cranked in the online votes, that’s when Mitt Romney jumped ahead, and his campaign actually worked hard behind the scenes to get people to vote online.

ABERNETHY: So what’s the next step for these folks?

LAWTON: There are a lot of behind-the-scenes meetings going on right now as they try to figure out what to do. They’ve asked their supporters to pray for guidance about how they should approach the future. They’re trying to decide, should we just go our own way in this election? Another interesting thing is that some of the Democratic candidates are sensing an opening and are really going after it, so you have candidates like Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton reaching out to these communities, trying to maybe siphon off some of those votes.