IAEA chief discusses an Iran nuclear deal, fighting near Ukraine’s Zaporizhzhia plant

Amna Nawaz:

Well, today, the United Nations reiterated its demand that Russia withdraw its troops from the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant, which it's occupied since March.

In recent weeks, fighting around Europe's largest nuclear power plant has intensified. And the U.S. warns, the international community is — quote — "living under the threat of a nuclear catastrophe."

Meanwhile, the U.S., Europe and Iran are at a critical moment in their negotiations over Iran's nuclear program.

Nick Schifrin talks Ukraine and Iran with a man at the center of both issues.

Nick Schifrin:

The International Atomic Energy Agency is responsible for monitoring nuclear plants and countries' nuclear programs to ensure they stay peaceful and are safely operated.

To discuss both Zaporizhzhia nuclear plants and the ongoing negotiations over Iran's nuclear program, I'm joined by Rafael Mariano Grossi, the IAEA'S director general.

Sir, welcome to the "NewsHour."

In Zaporizhzhia, what are you must worried about, and how worried are you?

Rafael Grossi, Director General, IAEA:

There are a number of things we are worrying — we are worried about.

We are confronted here with a completely unprecedented situation. You have this cohabitation, if you want, of the operators, the Ukrainian operators, with the Russian force. There have been allegations of confrontations, arguments, or even violence, the shelling which has been taking place intermittently.

This combination of factors is an absolute unthinkable situation for any normal nuclear power plant.

Nick Schifrin:

You said about a week ago that one reactor unit had been disconnected from the electrical grid, triggering generators and an emergency protection system.

Is that system holding?

Rafael Grossi:

Well, the system in general is holding. There is one external line of power which is active and then one local one.

And then there are some, of course, emergency diesel generators. But you don't want to get to that stage, of course. I would say, for the moment, the situation is holding, but at I would say quite close to an alert zone, which should be avoided at all costs.

Nick Schifrin:

When it comes to the physical security of the plant, there have been explosions and, as you mentioned, it hit a dry fuel storage facility, damaged the plant's external power system.

How serious have the explosions inside the plant been?

Rafael Grossi:

They have not affected the reactors themselves, and even the spent fuel ponds. There have been some impacts nearby.

But I don't want to banalize this. Any explosion externally caused, kinetically motivated on a nuclear power plant, again, it's like crossing the reddest of the lines that you can imagine.

Nick Schifrin:

When it comes to access to the site, Ukraine says that it has approved your visit, your personal visit.

You said you want to go with your team. French President Emmanuel Macron said this week that Russian President Vladimir Putin did agree to the IAEA visiting.

Has there been any progress in that? Is there any sign that Russia is, in fact, going to let you in?

Rafael Grossi:

As we speak, I am working on this. I'm having very intensive am consultations with Kyiv, of course, and also with Russia, in order to work on the practical details.

Nick Schifrin:

Has the Russian side in fact told you that, yes, they are willing to let you come?

Rafael Grossi:

We are very close to that.

The reason I'm a bit reluctant, as you can see, to say, yes, definitely yes, is because we are in the consultations. We are seeing the stars aligning for the first time, agreeing on the principle and the need for the visit to proceed. And we are working now on the logistics and the details.

And this, I hope, is going to happen in a matter of days, not weeks, but days.

Nick Schifrin:

Let's turn to negotiations over the Iran nuclear deal.

As a reminder, in 2015, Iran and world powers signed a deal that restricted Iran's nuclear program in exchange for sanctions relief. In 2018, the Trump administration withdrew and placed new sanctions on Iran. Since 2019, Iran has broken through the nuclear deal's restrictions, including on manufacturing, enrichment levels, and nuclear fuel stockpiles.

For the last year-and-a-half, Iran and world powers have been negotiating once again a return to the deal, where Iran would restrict its program and the U.S. would provide sanctions relief. And they could be on the cusp of a new agreement.

The IAEA is not a signatory to any of these deals, nor are you part of the negotiations. And yet your nearly 4-year-old investigation into nuclear material found at undeclared sites in Iran remains a sticking point.

So lets start with a basic question. Has Iran given sufficient answers to explain the presence of that nuclear material?

Rafael Grossi:

Not yet, but I'm hopeful they will.

They know that they have to do it. We have agreed on a mechanism for this. When the IAEA finds traces of nuclear material at a place which had not been declared as a place where nuclear activity was taking place, my legal obligation is to ask the question.

We need to have the adequate explanation as to whether there was an activity there, what kind of an activity was it, what kind of material we had.

Nick Schifrin:

Do you believe you need that adequate explanation of this nuclear material before the U.S., Europe and Iran sign any kind of political agreement today?

Rafael Grossi:

That is a political question that needs to be put to them, not to me.

What we need is the cooperation from Iran. And we also need the maximum levels of access and inspection. The more limitations we have, the less credibility or the less assurances we can provide the international community about the status of the nuclear material in Iran.

Nick Schifrin:

Iran is demanding that the investigation be closed before it agrees to return to any kind of nuclear deal.

Has the U.S. or Europe put pressure on you at all to close the investigation?

Rafael Grossi:

The United States has not put any pressure on me. There could be implicit pressure or explicit pressure from one side or the other.

Pressures in these nuclear matters will always exist. They are part of the landscape, unfortunately. But, if we keep our course, if the IAEA keeps doing and is allowed to do its inspection work, we are going to get there, I'm pretty confident.

Nick Schifrin:

Separately, the original nuclear deal requires Iran to allow more than two dozen cameras to film centrifuge production, uranium mine, storage facilities and other items.

In June, Iran dismantled those cameras. And back in June, you said that the window to restore — quote — "a continuity of knowledge" was only three to four weeks. That was back in June.

So does that mean you have already lost the ability to know if Iran was building more centrifuges?

Rafael Grossi:

Well, that was a serious move. I do not — I will not rewrite or re-say what I said.

These 27 cameras that were disconnected were covering important areas of both centrifuge production facilities and other things. And we lost that continuity of knowledge. And if and when the agreement is revived and we can reconnect the cameras, we have to sit down with our Iranian colleagues and see how we can fill in the gaps, if you want, between that time and the present time.

Nick Schifrin:

I guess the bottom line, sir, do you believe that the IAEA will be able to detect Iranian nuclear activity in the amount of time the world has said, through these nuclear deals, it needs in order to react?

Rafael Grossi:

I think if we have the correct and necessary access, the IAEA, the inspectors of the IAEA, will always be in a position to detect in a timely manner any deviation of nuclear material in Iran or elsewhere.

Nick Schifrin:

Rafael Mariano Grossi, the executive director of the IAEA, thank you very much.

Rafael Grossi:

It was my pleasure. Thank you very much.