Marcus and Abernathy on the deadly police beating in Memphis

Amna Nawaz:

After the police beating in Memphis and mass shootings in California, America is once again reckoning with its chronic struggle to prevent violence and hold the powerful accountable.

Let's turn now to the analysis of Marcus and Abernathy. That is Washington Post columnist Ruth Marcus and her post colleague Gary Abernathy. David Brooks and Jonathan Capehart are away.

Welcome to you both. Thanks for being here.

I want to begin with this video we led the show with, the pending release of the video showing the death of Tyre Nichols — or the police beating, rather, of Tyre Nichols.

As we speak now, it has not been released. But as we — before we begin to cover it in the days ahead, I'd like to get both of your takes on where we are right now.

Having heard from officials how horrifying, how graphic the video is, and anticipating what happens next, Gary, why don't you begin?

Gary Abernathy, The Washington Post:

Yes, I mean, that's what's striking, is it in, Amna, is that, very quickly — I mean, it's only been three weeks, but, very quickly, the police chief determined and said this was a failing of basic humanity, he said.

They're preparing people for a really horrible video, but, apparently, what happened, by everyone who's seen it, it's a horrible thing. And it strikes to a culture that still exists, obviously. This is obviously with — they didn't wait to suspend these officers. They fired them. They didn't say they're suspended, based on pending an investigation. They just fired them.

So this is a horrific thing, apparently. You don't want to rush to too much judgment, because, again, there's a lot we don't know. And it's a culture. It's not necessarily, in this case, a race-based issue, since all of the officers involved were also Black. But there's obviously something that — most police officers wouldn't engage in this type of apparent brutality.

But, apparently, that's something that happened that is still something departments everywhere need to — need to address.

Amna Nawaz:

Ruth, how are you looking at this moment?

Ruth Marcus, Columnist, The Washington Post:

Well, it's a horrifying moment.

But I will start with a comparison that might make us in this terrible time and braced to see what is clearly going to be this terrible video feel a little bit better. Before Tyre Nichols, in 1971, there was a young man named Elton Hayes. He was 17 years old. He was beaten to death by officers in Memphis.

And in that situation, it was covered up. It took two years to charge the officers. All eight of them were acquitted. And, as Gary was just suggesting, this is very different, very interesting questions about the racial composition of those involved.

But the Black female police chief had the officers quickly fired. These charges were filed with land speed — a land speed record, and we are going. For better or worse, I'm kind of glad we didn't — we're not seeing it in time for us to have to talk about it, because I really don't want to look. They are being charged.

So, there, the response after the fact is very healthy. What happened before that fact is obviously really disturbing and, in some ways, more disturbing, on a certain level, when it's Black officers involved. It's horrifying when a white officer shoots and kills or is responsible for the death of a Black man like George Floyd.

But, in those situations, police departments may have a theory of how they can improve themselves. They can make clear that racism is unacceptable. They can integrate their ranks and bring in people who theoretically will not treat members of the community that way.

But when you have Black officers involved in this kind of violence like this, you really do have to question whether there is something deeper and therefore harder to root out inside police culture. And that's the really scary part of this.

Amna Nawaz:

We will, of course, be following this in the days ahead as well.

But I do want to ask you both about incidents that we began the week with, which were back-to-back mass shootings in California. Just to give people a sense of where we are when it comes to gun violence in America, a few important stats I want to share.

Every day in this country, 124 people die, every day, from gun violence. The leading cause of death for children 18 and under is now gun violence. According to the Gun Violence Archive, so far this year, there have been 42 mass shootings, more mass shootings than days of the year.

When I was on the ground in Monterey Park, California, I had a chance to speak with Congresswoman Judy Chu, who used to be the mayor there, calls that her hometown and is now, of course, a congressperson.

And I asked her, is this the moment that your fellow members of Congress act? What will it take? Here's what she said.

REP. JUDY CHU (D-CA):

Those congressmembers could be the next ones with a mass shooting in their district. Their constituents could be the victims, their neighbors, their family members, their loved ones.

So, until we stop this proliferation of gun violence, none of us will be safe.

Amna Nawaz:

Ruth, what do you make of that? Is she wrong?

Ruth Marcus:

Well, until we stop this proliferation of gun violence, which is a uniquely, disturbingly American phenomenon, whether it's mass shootings or individual shootings, we are suffering from an epidemic of gun violence.

But I noticed she did not answer your question about whether this was going to be the moment that was going to catapult and galvanize Congress into action. It is not. I sat with mothers who had lost their children at the Sandy Hook shooting, when they were hoping to at least get — be able to kill a filibuster of efforts to pass an assault weapons ban, and they couldn't do it.

This Congress is unable to get itself into action. And so we're going to need to see action on a state level, on a state-by-state basis. And the scary part to me is that the United States Supreme Court has made it harder for states — and we will find out in coming years just how hard — to enact reasonable gun restrictions.

Amna Nawaz:

Gary, as you well know, and experts told us, states vary so widely depending on where — the rules vary so widely.

So, if California some of the strictest gun laws in the country, but you can buy a certain weapon in Arizona and carry it right across, so does it take federal laws to fix our gun violence problem?

Gary Abernathy:

Well, that's an excellent point.

California has maybe the strictest gun laws in the country. And yet this happens there. Here's a question: What's the answer? What — I'd like to hear a specific about what's the gun law we need to pass to prevent this? I don't think anyone really has that answer.

The other side of this coin is…

Ruth Marcus:

I have some specifics, Gary.

Gary Abernathy:

OK. But — OK, well, Ruth, I can't wait to hear them.

But what is it that makes people — good to see you, Ruth, too.

What is it that makes people pick these guns up and go commit these crimes? What's the culture? What's the sickness of the soul that makes someone wake up one day and say, I'm going to pick up this gun and go massacre people? Let's be — let's acknowledge these guns don't get up and do this themselves.

People pick these guns up and do this. What is it that we need to address to help prevent people from wanting to carry out these horrific acts?

Amna Nawaz:

Ruth, did you want to get in there?

Ruth Marcus:

Sure.

I would suggest — Gary and I are good friends, so we can disagree here — the sickness of the soul is — exists in other countries. Mental illness exists in other countries. It is America where we have more guns than people. When you're going to have — when you have more guns than people, you're not going to be able to eradicate gun violence, but there's things that you can do.

You can limit the size of magazines. You can raise the age of people who are eligible to purchase weapons from 18 to 21. You can have trigger locks in place or other fingerprint technology, so that young children, like other people who shouldn't have guns, including the 6-year-old who shot his teacher in Virginia recently very near us, aren't able to get to guns.

And you can enact red flag laws and respond in a very quick way to suggestions that there are people out there who may need to have guns taken away from them or shouldn't get guns. You can close the gun show loophole. I could keep going. Will this stop gun violence in America? No. Could it reduce gun violence in America? Yes.

(CROSSTALK)

Ruth Marcus:

I mean, look at California.

(CROSSTALK)

Amna Nawaz:

Ruth, I just want to — I'm sorry to interrupt you. I want to give Gary a quick chance to respond.

We have got about 15, 20 seconds left. I will give you the final word here, Gary.

Ruth Marcus:

Sorry, Gary.

Gary Abernathy:

Sorry, Ruth.

But I think California has some of those restrictions, the magazine restrictions. Joe Biden just signed into law a bill back in June — they have called it the biggest gun bill in 30 years — that has red flag laws, expands the red flag laws.

So, again, I think there are always things to look at every issue. But let's not do this. Let's don't point fingers at each other and say, you care more than I do right, I care — you care less than I do. Let's work together on this.

Amna Nawaz:

Appreciate both of your time.

We could spent a lot more time talking about this one topic.

Gary Abernathy and Ruth Marcus, thank you for being with us.

Gary Abernathy:

Thank you, Amna. Thank you, Ruth.