What happened in the courtroom during Trump’s third arraignment this year

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• Geoff Bennett:

  It has become a familiar sight. For the third time this year, former President Donald Trump was arraigned on criminal charges. Today, he was in federal court in Washington just a few blocks from the U.S. Capitol, where a mob of his supporters rioted on January 6 and in the same courthouse where hundreds of participants in that attack have also appeared as defendants.

  Mr. Trump pleaded not guilty to four felonies relating to efforts to overturn the 2020 election and remain in power, among them, conspiracy to defraud the United States, obstruction of an official proceeding, and conspiracy against the right to vote.

  Mr. Trump spoke to reporters after his court appearance today.

  Donald Trump, Former President of the United States: When you look at what's happening, this is a persecution of a political opponent. This was never supposed to happen in America. This is the persecution of the person that's leading by very, very substantial numbers in the Republican primary and leading Biden by a lot.

  So, if you can't beat him, you persecute him or you prosecute him. We can't let this happen in America.

• Geoff Bennett:

  Cameras were not allowed in the courtroom, but a handful of reporters were given access.

  Carrie Johnson was among them. She's a justice correspondent for NPR and joins us now from the courthouse.

  Carrie, thanks so much for being with us.

  So, you were in the overflow room. Give us a sense of how the proceedings unfolded. And what could you make out of Mr. Trump's demeanor?

• Carrie Johnson, NPR:

  Sure.

  We were all waiting, Geoff, most of the day for this proceeding to start. It started a little bit late, after 4:00 p.m. And the former president and drove through the back of the courtroom. He seemed pretty somber. He spent a lot of time talking with his two attorneys, and seemed very animated in flipping through some court papers.

  And when the magistrate judge took the bench, Trump paid close attention to her. He talked about his name and his age, and he took an oath to tell the truth and answer her questions. It was quite a remarkable moment when the clerk called out the case, the United States v. Donald J. Trump, the former president of the United States, as you said, just really steps away from the U.S. Capitol, which was the scene of the crime here in many ways.

• Geoff Bennett:

  And, Carrie, this magistrate judge, as I understand it, also told Mr. Trump, do not commit a crime, do not tamper with the jury.

  Is that right? How did he respond?

• Carrie Johnson:

  Sure.

  The magistrate judge, Moxila Upadhyaya, basically said Trump would be released on very limited conditions. One, pretty basic, don't commit a new crime, a new alleged crime, while you're out on release, and, two, don't retaliate against anyone you think is a witness, don't talk with people who you think might be witnesses without the presence of their lawyers.

  And Trump nodded and said he understood all of that. And he basically paid close attention to the judge and seemed to follow along with what she was saying.

• Geoff Bennett:

  Mr. Trump's attorney, John Lauro, shared in the courtroom an argument that he shared on this program last night. He said the government had years to investigate, years to bring this case, and that the Trump legal team would need more time to bring a defense.

  Tell us more about that and how this judge reacted to it.

• Carrie Johnson:

  Geoff, this is going to be the heart of the matter, the judge wanting to set a next court appearance for Donald Trump, the prosecutors for the special counsel wanting to pick the first available date, and Donald Trump and his lawyers wanting to pick the last available date.

  And so it's going to be a push and a pull. The special counsel's office says they want to go to trial under the Speedy Trial Act. They are ready to start sharing information with Donald Trump and his defense lawyers relatively soon.

  But, as you mentioned, John Lauro says he's not aware of the magnitude of evidence in this case, yet there could be reams of paper documents, electronic evidence, years-long investigation, and he thinks it might be absurd to follow the speedy trial rules. He says he wants Trump to get a fair trial, not a fast one.

  And the magistrate judge said she could guarantee, in this courthouse, he would get a fair trial.

• Geoff Bennett:

  Well, we have a date for the next hearing in this case, August 28. It's just a few weeks away. That suggests to me that this is going to be a speedy trial.

  I mean, how do you read it?

• Carrie Johnson:

  Yes, Judge Tanya Chutkan, a longtime public defender who was appointed to this bench by former President Obama, is relatively no-nonsense and tough. She's going to preside over that next hearing at the end of the month.

  And the magistrate says Judge Chutkan wants to set a trial date at that hearing. The open question, Geoff, is, Trump already faces trial in March in New York City over those alleged hush money payments to the adult film star Stormy Daniels. He's set for trial in May of 2024 over the Mar-a-Lago documents, the allegedly classified documents found at Trump's resort.

  And so it's hard to see when, in that busy schedule, they can matter — they can notice this January 6 case for trial. More will become clearer by the end of the month about what the judge wants to say and do there, for sure.

• Geoff Bennett:

  Well, on that point, in the roughly minute we have left, as you mentioned, the president, former president, is facing three trials in three separate jurisdictions.

  He's also obviously running for president again. Has the Trump legal team given any indication of how they intend to sequence all of this, handle all of it?

• Carrie Johnson:

  I think their strategy is to delay as much as possible for as long as possible.

  So, even though he has trial dates set next year in two of these cases, I'm not at all sure he won't go back to the judge and ask for additional delays. And with respect to this January 6 case, I think the defense's preference is to try this case after the election.

  Geoff, that's important, because, if Trump actually wins the election and becomes the president again, he could pardon himself or direct his new attorney general to get rid of these federal cases altogether.

• Geoff Bennett:

  Carrie Johnson of NPR, we're so grateful to have you as our eyes and ears in that courtroom on this historic day. Thanks so much.

• Carrie Johnson:

  My pleasure.