Sen. Thune on why he opposes Biden’s student loan plan, the affidavit in Mar-a-Lago search

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• Amna Nawaz:

  President Biden's plan to cancel thousands of dollars in student loan debt for millions of borrowers has raised criticism from the Republican ranks. Many have called the plan unfair and believe it could worsen inflation and that it does little to address the rising cost of college.

  South Dakota Senator Thune, the second-ranking Republican in the Senate, is among those with concerns. He joins me now.

  Senator Thune, welcome back to the "NewsHour." Thank you so much for joining us.

  So, is it fair to say your biggest concern with this plan seems to be it sends the wrong message, that it's unfair for people who never went to college, who don't carry any debt? Is that a fair characterization?

• Sen. John Thune (R-SD):

  I think it is, Amna.

  And I believe it is fundamentally unfair, particularly if you think about all those Americans out there and those families, many of whom never had the opportunity to go to college or those who did and paid — paid their loans down already, paid them back, or their parents pinched pennies and made it possible for them to get through college.

  And now you're asking them, essentially, to pay a half-a-trillion or there's some estimates up to a trillion dollars, really, to forgive all the loans of these people out there who currently have loans.

  And it just — on so many levels, this just seems fundamentally wrong, fundamentally unfair to those that are going to be paying the freight, and I think a really bad precedent going forward.

• Amna Nawaz:

  You know, one of the — one of the things we hear from backers is that some of the same folks that you're expressing concerns about will actually be helped by this.

  Working-class families, low-income families, we know those making under $60,000 a year will get the most relief from this plan. Does that allay any of your concerns?

• Sen. John Thune:

  Well, there are some who will get some benefit from it, no question about it.

  But just think of the number of families out there who are going to be paying for it. There are 13 percent of people in this country who have some form of student debt. That means they're 87 percent of the American people who don't. They're going to be paying for it in the form of higher inflation and then ultimately in the form of higher taxes or passing the debt down to our kids and our grandkids.

• Amna Nawaz:

  Let me ask you about the inflation question in a moment.

  But, first, you have the White House in response to your criticism and others that this is unfair — I should mention even some Democrats have expressed that concern — they have taken to Twitter. They have listed many, many Republicans there who they say have also argued this is unfair, people who also had tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars in PPP loans forgiven.

  So I'm asking you now, what's the difference?

• Sen. John Thune:

  Well, there's a huge difference. The PPP loan was approved by Congress on a huge bipartisan vote. In fact, the vote in the Senate was 96-0.

  This is an executive action that nobody's had any input into. And the PPP loans were designed to help the very people that you're talking about. It was workers. One of the conditions for PPP loans for businesses to get them is they had to use those loans, the proceeds of those loans, to retain and keep employees working during the pandemic.

  It was designed to help working Americans. That was the whole design and purpose behind the PPP. So that's a really ridiculous comparison. I hope they have a better one.

• Amna Nawaz:

  So let me just put this to you, because there are millions of student borrowers who were victims of predatory lending, right, who graduated in a global financial crisis, who live in a country where wages have largely stagnated.

  So, fundamentally, shouldn't they get some kind of relief for circumstances not of their own making?

• Sen. John Thune:

  Well, and there are a lot of people who have just in the last three years. I mean, there has been a moratorium on repayment.

  So I mean, people have had — I think they have had leniency. In fact…

  (CROSSTALK)

• Amna Nawaz:

  Well, to be fair, Senator, moratorium is not the same as canceling or forgiving the debt, right?

• Sen. John Thune:

  It's — no, it's not.

  But what you were pointing out is when people have difficult circumstances. And I have granted the pandemic was a difficult circumstance. But extending and just extending that moratorium now for three years has cost about $100 billion. What they're talking about is up to a trillion dollars to cancel that debt.

  And, again, at some point, yes, people need to have, I think, better decision-making, better judgment, hopefully better advice when they're taking out these loans in the first place. And I'm not suggesting for a minute that there may be lenders out there who prey on people. But the fact of the matter is, these are commitments that people made.

  And now those who didn't have the opportunity to go to college are going to be asked to make the payments to cover the cost of this — of that for those who did.

• Amna Nawaz:

  Senator, you mentioned your concerns about inflation. Here's what Goldman Sachs had to say about the president's plan.

  They say debt forgiveness that lowers monthly payments is slightly inflationary in isolation, but the resumption of payments, which, as you know, is part of the president's plan, is likely to more than offset this.

  So, given that, if it's not likely to have much of an impact at all on inflation, but could potentially help millions of Americans, isn't it worth it?

• Sen. John Thune:

  Well, let me ask you a question.

  If you just saw all these people have their — a lot of their debt wiped out, you're talking about a resumption of payments. You think anybody is going to start paying down their college loans? They're going to assume, again, that this is a policy that's going to be extended.

• Amna Nawaz:

  But, again, Senator, that's not part of the plan.

• Sen. John Thune:

  What I would say this.

  You're talking about — you're talking — you're talking about — I know it's not part of the plan. I'm just telling you, once you start doing this, it's going to be hard to put the genie back in the bottle.

  But what I'm suggesting is, if you — if you play this out, and think about the fact that you're dropping a half-a-trillion to a trillion dollars back into the economy, there are different studies out there. You noted it, but there are a lot of liberal economists — and I think you know this too — who have suggested this will be inflationary, not only just in the general inflationary sense, but also certainly inflationary when it comes to college tuition.

  I think there are going to be some real consequences to this that are going to be felt by — mostly by people who don't get the benefit from it. And, clearly, there are going to be those who benefit. There's no question about that. But it's — again, it's — to me, it's very clearly a transparent move by the administration to try and curry favor with a constituency that they hope will support them this election year.

• Amna Nawaz:

  Senator, while we have you, I do need to ask you about some news today. We saw the release of that redacted affidavit that laid out the reasoning behind the FBI search at former President Trump's Mar-a-Lago estate.

  Knowing now what we know about the number of classified, top secret documents he had, the types of documents, how they were kept, are you comfortable with how Mr. Trump handled those documents?

• Sen. John Thune:

  Well, I think that's going to be — ultimately, there's a legal process now. A decision is going to be made probably by the Justice Department, the FBI, and the folks who are involved in that at the courts.

• Amna Nawaz:

  Yes, sir, but, from your perspective, are you comfortable with it?

• Sen. John Thune:

  I think that I — well — well, my view is that the those types of documents, classified, highly classified, very sensitive national security-related, need to be secured.

  And there's no question about that. But I also believe that this was an unprecedented move by the FBI and the Justice Department, which they need to be fully transparent about why they did it. And I know that the redacted affidavit gives a little information or insight into that.

  But, at the end of the day, there's a lot of mistrust out there among the American people, because they have suspicions that this may have been done for political reasons. And I think that the Justice Department has got a responsibility to be accountable to this — on this and to be transparent as possible.

• Amna Nawaz:

  If I may, I also want to get you, as a leader of your party, to weigh in on this.

  We have seen a number of results now across primary elections across the country. And there have been a number of so-called election deniers, right, people who are running on the lie that the 2020 election was stolen, and have been winning, winning Republican primaries.

  Does that worry you?

• Sen. John Thune:

  Well, I think if people build their campaigns around relitigating the 2020 election, that, yes, they're going to have a hard time getting across.

  The 2020 election is over. The 2022 election is right in front of us. And I think all candidates ought to be making their arguments to their voters and their districts or their states about what they want to do if elected.

• Amna Nawaz:

  More broadly speaking, these are people who are delivering anti-democratic messages. They're talking about they would have ignored the vote, voters' will and thrown out results in the 2020 election.

  Are you comfortable with that?

• Sen. John Thune:

  I think that's a — that may have been a decision that they and their campaign are making.

  No, I'm not comfortable with it. I'm up for reelection this year. That's not what I will be talking about. I'm going to be talking about the issues that I think are relevant today and for the future to the people of South Dakota and the people of this country. And I would hope that all candidates on our side of the aisle would do the same.

  But, again, each campaign is going to make their own decisions. And we will see how it all turns out.

• Amna Nawaz:

  Senator Thune, second-ranking Republican in the Senate joining us tonight, thank you so much for your time. Always good to have you.

• Sen. John Thune:

  Thanks, Amna. See you.