♪ Always be strong ♪ - She was determined, determined to live.

- She was cancer-free.

(uplifting music) - I feel like I was in really good hands and I can't say nothing about the treatment that I got.

- Things do change, nothing stays static.

A new day will come.

(uplifting music) - Welcome to Hope is here.

I'm Carla Hill.

Finding inspiration to fight cancer calls upon courage and an immense determination to soldier on through the toughest of days.

This arduous journey also requires support and love from friends and family.

Michael Cramer was gifted all these necessary ingredients to forge ahead not only from a family who loves him, but especially from a mother whose encouragement bullied her son through his darkest moments.

Here is Michael's remarkable story about a mother's love.

(uplifting music) - [Michael] I love surfing, windsurfing.

It's just like this feeling of freedom.

There's nothing else in the world that compares to it.

You're free, there's no worries, and all of a sudden everything disappears and you're just in that moment and you're literally just flying.

It's just best feeling in the world.

(uplifting music) - [Ashlee] I remember it was in June, the gyms just started opening up again.

So he went back to the gym and he was like, "I feel really weak."

- And I thought I was lacking motivation because I was like, "All right, I'm maybe anemic.

I'm just tired, maybe I have COVID."

- And really I wasn't worried about him.

I still, at this point, I really thought he was fine.

I thought he's gonna need vitamins, or supplements, or something like that.

- So I went and got a blood test, it came back all funky, and then we ended up here.

And I took a bone marrow biopsy and that's how I got my diagnosis.

(ominous music) I woke up from it super groggy, like, for the first time ever, having anesthesia.

I was like in another world when I woke up.

And then the doctor walks in and he says... - And then he said the word lymphoma.

And as soon as he said, "Lymphoma," I think I almost heard nothing else for a few minutes.

And I know that it was the same for Michael.

When Michael heard lymphoma, it definitely... You could feel it like a knife to the gut because we literally just went through this.

And so now, it's been five, almost five years since my husband passed away.

At the time, it had been just over four years.

So four years is long and short.

Four years, in a way, felt like yesterday that we just went through chemotherapy and everything.

(waves crashing) - When you're diagnosed with cancer, you can take it one way or another.

You can say, "Okay, this is a death sentence," or you could say, "This is a chance at a new life."

And when I was given the opportunity to get a bone marrow transplant and a chance at a new life, I just had to look at all the positives.

- You can't control what happens to you in life, but you can control how you react to it.

And it's not to put like gooey sugar frosting on this.

This is not like, "Yay, I got cancer!

Yay, I'm so positive!"

No, it's hard, and it's crappy, and he doesn't feel well sometimes, but... We're not gonna stay in that dark place.

Ready?

(upbeat music) I love you.

Yay!

- My mom.

I literally, I have no words.

Like, literally, she's there for everything.

Like, everything I've been through, no matter what, literally my number one support, my motivation.

She helps me work out, she'll gimme stretches to do, we'll do yoga together, we will meditate together, we'll work on things together.

She'll write, she'll update people on how I am when I couldn't update people 'cause I was too sick, always there for me.

Just the best mother I could ever ask for.

The perspective it's given me and the amount of gratitude I've learned, should have, is just amazing.

I just wanted to say that everything in life is temporary.

All the suffering, all the pain, it's temporary.

And why stop when you're in the worst part?

'Cause it only gets better from there.

- [Ashlee] I love what Michael said on social media.

He makes TikToks and videos to inspire people, to show them, "Okay, this is real.

This is what I look like.

I don't look like a model right now, I'm taking drugs to help me survive, and I don't look perfect.

My skin is not beautiful, my body's not perfect, but I can motivate people."

- [Michael] The biggest thing for me has been, "Okay, I can break down, I can cry, I can be sad, but I always have to pick myself up no matter what because I have it so much better than so many people do.

And I just need to be grateful for my health and the fact that I'm still here alive."

- I love you, I love you, I love you, and I'm grateful for you.

Thank you, I'm grateful for you, too.

There's so many beautiful things that have happened that have come out of it, like the support that we've seen.

The fact that...

I mean, I'm so in awe of my kid, but actually not just Michael, like all my kids.

I'm in awe of how they have all handled this.

Michael has turned this around and instead of being like, "Whoa, it's me, poor me, why is this happening to me?"

He's been like, "Okay, this sucks, but maybe I can turn it around and motivate other people."

- It makes me feel accomplished and it's good that I can inspire people and show them that I'm six months off from transplant, and I'm lifting weights and getting stronger and slowly getting back to my normal life, and that there is hope.

(mellow music) - Joining me is Michael Cramer and his mother Ashlee.

Thanks for being here and sharing your story.

- Thank you so much for having us.

- Thank you so much for having us.

- It's amazing.

I mean, it's one of these things where we did the interview before the interview.

- We did.

- Yeah.

- It's so lovely getting to know you.

Michael, we know that you were not expecting a cancer diagnosis, but how has this really changed your young, active life?

- It's changed my life a lot.

And it might sometimes feel or seem like it's a lot more difficult, which it is, but I think the love, the support, and everything that I've been through just has shown me how important and short life is.

- And considering how active you are and your family is, were you in disbelief when you got the diagnosis?

- I was a little bit in disbelief because four years prior to my diagnosis, we, I, lost my father.

My mom lost her husband- - I'm sorry.

- To lymphoma.

And to hear the words lymphoma again, and this time put onto me personally, not just my father, it was really distressing and it was difficult to hear that.

It was a very difficult thing to hear.

- That's right.

I'm sure.

And you're sitting next to this beautiful lady.

Your story really speaks volumes.

How did your mom help you to get through this time?

- "What did she not do?"

Is a question we should be answering today.

She is amazing.

I mean, when I was diagnosed, she was still trying to work.

But as soon as I had to have my bone marrow transplant, my mom quit her job to be with me, to be my full-time caregiver.

We spent six weeks in the hospital just for my transplant.

And after we went home, we thought that we would go back to our lives kind of after my transplant.

- [Carla] Wow.

But unfortunately, things changed and we had to be in the hospital for a long, long period of time, and my mom never left my side.

Every day, she lifted me up.

Even today I'm still in treatment, she still lifts me up and she never leaves my side, as you can see.

- I can see that, Ashlee- - [Ashlee] He makes me cry.

- Oh, how does that make you feel when he says it?

I mean, talk about that.

- I know because the thing is, he says that and I think, but he also himself has had this gift of being open to let me lift him up.

He's been open to love, he's been open to sharing his story.

So for so many reasons, he has let me lift him up, but he's amazing.

This kid, he didn't tell you this, but before cancer, I think what you were getting at a little bit is he was an athlete, he was a healthy guy.

He ate, I have three kids, they grew up eating really healthy foods.

All of them, athletic.

Certainly, this 19-year-old in perfect health- - [Carla] Athlete, yes.

- [Ashlee] Great kid doing all the right things.

- And you were training for the Olympics?

- [Michael] Yes, I was on the Olympic Development Team for windsurfing.

- [Carla] Oh, my goodness.

That, I just learned.

That is a pretty rigorous sport.

(whistle blowing) - And I just wasn't able to keep up with my friends anymore.

They were just in the...

I'll go to the gym, I'd work out with them, and they were destroying me, and I was just exhausted.

And I started to get night sweats and then I got fevers.

And once I developed the fevers, my mom and I, we were like, "We need to actually go see the doctor.

This is something serious."

'Cause I thought I was just tired, maybe I had COVID.

But it was not COVID, it was cancer, and it was insane to find that out.

- Yeah, when we heard cancer, it was a shock.

But there's something that happens to you, I think.

And you hear that, and it was like, "Okay, what do we have to do to help him?

What do we have to do to make this better?"

And we just got in that, I don't wanna say survival mode, because survival mode sounds like just surviving.

It was more like not just survival mode, but it was like dealing-with-this mode and finding...

Right away, we wanted to find a purpose.

- [Carla] I think put an armor on.

- Yes, but it wasn't an armor to keep out people.

I feel like our armor was like an armor of... just love.

- Love.

- It's been our theme and we've had... - There has been a theme.

- Right, we've had a couple of themes and I mentioned this to you before we started talking.

One of our big themes is beauty in pain.

- Talk about that, what... - Okay.

- I mean because we're here at Hope is Here, and we want people to be hopeful, but we were talking about just honoring our emotions as well.

- Yes, I want Michael to talk, but I'm just gonna say really quickly, but I want him also to speak on this because the pain is there.

I'm not gonna say it's beauty in rainbows.

It wasn't like, "Cancer, woo-hoo, beautiful!"

But every time something painful would happen and you would get to the other side or every time there was something painful, a nurse would walk in the room and we would have a human relationship.

Or we do crazy things like make up rap videos or we would just find a way to tap into joy.

And I do think that we would always find every single time you went through something different, there would be a sign of something that came from it.

Breathe, babe.

Breathe.

Oh, my gosh, your first time outside.

- So there's a time when I was admitted to the hospital for five months and I had a drain in my gallbladder.

And I remember I was in so much pain, and this is when beauty in pain really became our thing because those five months were so difficult and it was truly the hardest time that we ever had together.

And I remember the nurse coming in, playing a song for us, and it was just so beautiful.

And it was one of those moments where I was like, "I'm in pain, but there's also beauty, and I'm also experiencing beauty while I'm in pain."

So that was when we found the beauty in pain and the beauty in our story that was so much pain, but there was so much love and there was so much hope just around us that that's what got us through it and that's why we're here today.

- I think and being together has definitely- - Yeah.

- I have three kids, but we were already close.

When my husband passed away, you can imagine it brought us... We were always close, but it brought us even closer.

And when this happened to Michael, I think it brought us even closer.

The three of them just gathered around Michael, he's the middle one, and I think we just, from the top, his older brother, younger sister, and the mom.

I felt like we just kind of surrounded with love and hope.

- You continue to use physical movement, athleticism, good health.

Talk about that and how that has helped you both during this journey.

- It's been huge.

When I was first diagnosed with cancer, I remember I went to the hospital, I got my port in.

And then after my chemo, I came home.

And I couldn't lift weights 'cause I was so weak, but we got some cans of- - Totally canned- - Canned food.

- Like canned food.

- And I just started like curling in, trying to stay in shape, trying to do anything I could just to get myself out of bed because I know that there was nothing I could control about my disease.

There was nothing I could control about how my body reacted to chemo.

But the things I could control were me getting out of bed every day, going for a walk, trying to control the little things.

So I felt that, "Okay, I can still do some things to make this journey a little better and a little more positive."

And every day, I'll do little things: go for a walk, we'd do a little workout, we'd meditate.

- [Ashlee] We've had to modify.

We've had to adapt.

There were times on his journey... - [Michael] Well, I couldn't do anything.

- The journey is not over that he couldn't, he was in bed.

But even in bed, even in bed when he had a dream, he would lay in bed and I would help him stretch.

We would do yoga, we would do whatever we could do.

And then there were times when he was on prednisone, and feeling awesome, and lifting a lot of weights, and doing a lot of things.

So we've had to adapt, I think, but music has been really big for us.

And I'm an ex-dancer, so we always have had music.

- [Michael] Music, music.

- And I think music has lifted us.

We've had dance parties in our hospital room many times with residents, doctors, nurses, a lot of people.

And physical activity has been so important.

Hi, guys.

- We just walked a mile.

- No, we walked 1.1 miles.

- 1.1 miles.

New personal record.

Post-BMT, pretty happy, feeling a lot better.

We love you, guys.

- Feeling strong!

- Yes.

- Yes.

- That contributed to your mental health.

- We've done yoga, we've done meditations, we've just...

It's helped our mental health so much just being active, doing something that's not cancer-related, not chemo-related, nothing to do with the hospital.

Just something that makes you feel a little more, quote, unquote, normal, that's what I'd like to say.

- Ashlee, you made the decision to stop everything.

- For me it was just...

It was a no-brainer.

I wanted to be with him, I wanted to be by his side.

I would do anything for him.

As parents, really hard part is we wanna take away their pain.

I wanna go back to this because if I wanna speak to a caregiver, I just wanna say, "We wanna take away their pain, but we can't.

So the best thing we can do is support them and show them the pain when you get to the other side."

Like, I look at him, he's this incredible human being because of everything he's been through.

And his brother and sister, too.

Because of what they've been through, we wanna take away the pain.

But sometimes, the pain is...

He's like, I don't wanna say it's good for you, but it's kind of good for you.

It makes you who you are, right?

So he's been through so much and I'm so grateful I've been next to him.

And it also, the love I give him, he gives me back, and we're so lucky that we've bonded so much.

I feel so close to him and I wouldn't exchange one moment, the nights, the sleepless nights, I wouldn't change that for the world.

- And having my mom by my side helps a lot with that.

- He's pretty strong.

- We are strong together.

- You both are light.

And what is that like?

I mean, your mom's coming, and singing, and dancing in your room and it's- - I know.

Poor kid.

- Imbuing all of this fun.

Are you kind of like, "Oh, mom, please," or was this just an natural philosophy for you to incorporate this fun and making light as much as you can with your kid who's a teen and going through this?

- Well, he's kind of used to me.

He did grow up with me, so- - It was natural.

It was natural, for sure.

And I think our humor, our love and hope, it's really just got us through everything.

And I remember being in the hospital with my mom and I always think to myself, "I'm so happy she's here," because I would hear of other patients that didn't have their mom with them or didn't have a parent with them, and they'd be alone.

So every time I was just with her and I'm still with her, I'm grateful.

- But you're so open to love.

- Yeah, I try to be.

- You know what happens with cancer, and you know...

Sometimes, it becomes very isolating.

- Certainly.

- And I think especially at Michael's age, he's diagnosed at 19, he's now 21, almost 22.

And I think that it's a time that a lot of people that age, we know, don't wanna talk about it.

And I think the fact that he was open to letting his mom shower him with love and he's been open to letting the nurses communicate with him, that is a tribute to him as well because he's been so open.

He's had therapists, he's had that have...

Since day one, he's talked to a therapist, and I think that's been amazing for mental health.

We've kept active, that's been amazing.

We eat really healthy.

I think music has been amazing when we can go outside.

We have all these mental health tips that we have.

But also, he did grow up with a mom that likes to sing and dance and that didn't change with cancer.

And there's been moments in my life that I've been like in this journey that, of course, I'm not always just, "Yay, Michael, go!"

No, there's moments that we've been in tears, and this is hard.

But then, we find the joy and we've had so much perspective.

It gives you so much perspective.

- Just spread your love, spread your positivity.

Life is too short to ever overthink these little things.

And I love you, guys.

- You mentioned joy and I have to mention, Michael, the way that you've been able to give back and you are using, I'm gonna sound real old lady now, your generation and social media.

- Yeah, social media.

- [Ashlee] That doesn't sound old.

(Ashlee laughs) - That's not old lady.

- That's not old lady.

- That's true, I'm into my own podcast.

But talk about how you have used social media to spread that joy or to be that support?

- So the idea that made me want to give back was one day, I was admitted to the hospital.

My mom knows this story very well.

My brother came.

And she filmed my brother and I working out in these Miami Heat jerseys.

And the video went viral because we put it on TikTok, and I started to realize that people were really inspired.

So my brother who was already on TikTok and posting a lot his own content, like the gym and stuff, that's what he was doing, inspired me to post about my journey.

And I started posting about my journey and I realized the comment section was full of cancer survivors and people that had been through similar situations to me.

And there was all these nice comments, and people were saying, "Oh, it's so amazing that you're sharing your story.

I've been through the same thing."

And I kept posting and posting, and I started posting on Instagram, and TikTok, and all the social media platforms.

We have a YouTube channel, we have a podcast on Spotify, and... - [Carla] Tell me a little bit about this, the podcast, 'cause it's the both of you, right?

- Yes, it's "Michael and Mom Talk Cancer."

And we've been doing it since 2021.

You adapt, you do the things you can do, like you said.

You don't focus on things you can do.

You try your best to do only what you can.

- Yeah, yeah.

- And that's all you can do.

- And I think we... - Social media is just so short.

And for people to really understand it and for people to really relate, I think a podcast, we thought the podcast would be a great idea.

And we've had amazing people on there.

We've had amazing feedback.

- And in a recent podcast, and you're gonna love this because it's hope.

I think it was Ed Mylett that said, "Hope," I don't know if you've heard this, "Help one person every day."

- [Carla] Oh, no, I don't know that one.

- Isn't that beautiful?

I love that.

- That's great.

- Right, and that goes so beautifully with this show.

And I think that that has been one thing.

When Michael was, especially in the bone marrow transplant, for those six weeks, we decorated the room.

And later point, he was in the hospital for about five months.

And we didn't come there ready to decorate, but we did decorate.

We've always had like little posters and things up, and one of them is, "It's not what happens to you, it's how you react."

So that's been one theme, I'm sure you agree with that one.

Another one is, "The best way to help yourself is to help someone else."

And I know you can't always help someone else, but sometimes just a little thing.

And I think that became a theme for us as well is helping someone else.

And when we heard this, "Help one person every day," we're like, "That is so true," because I think it gives you so much hope.

When you can give a hand to someone else, and I think as a caregiver, that's like so much of the joy and love that comes is when we can help the person, even if it's just a little, we can't understand exactly, but we can give them some of our... whatever it is that we have, that extra energy or whatever it is.

- Michael, tell me, what are you doing now?

How are you doing and what's next for you?

- What I'm up to now is I am learning how to deal with the life with an illness.

And it is difficult, it is something that I have to manage every day with all my medications, and we manage together.

It's still a difficult life.

But out of the hospital, here on this amazing show, and what we're trying to do is just advocate and make changes for people in the cancer world and just people around the world in general.

We just wanna spread our message of love.

My goal is to be a speaker, a motivational speaker.

I want to speak places, we want to speak places, we speak together.

That's what we're doing is speaking, advocating, and just sharing our message of love and hope with the world.

- I'm so glad that you're doing well.

Can you speak more on this message of hope and healing and what you've learned?

- Well, the biggest thing I've learned is that it's not linear.

It's never just like this.

There's ups and there's downs.

I've had a rough last few days, but I know the next few days are gonna be better.

And that's just what happens in life, and with an illness, and anything.

Healing is difficult when you've been through something like cancer.

- And the power of love in this family.

Talk about that a little bit, Ashlee.

- And the power of love is what, I think, it's what's gotten us through everything.

It's so funny because we kind of talk about this, that cancer became a four-letter word and a lot of people when they hear cancer in a four-letter word, they think of some really bad four-letter words.

But our four letter word were like, L-O-V-E. Hope could be there, too.

It works really well.

The love has been a four-letter word and I just think sharing: Why are we all here, anyway?

So everyone has something on their journey that's tough.

And this has been a really tough thing, especially for someone at this age, but we have been so supported by so many people and we were literally, when we were talking about that reciprocal, I think that's what it is.

We have given love, we've gotten so much love, and it just, I think in every time you give, and it gets higher, and higher, and higher.

And I think that has been the saving grace of this.

And I love that Michael just said it's not linear.

Life is for any of us.

None of us know what's going to happen.

So I feel like we have learned that, okay, 21 years old, your idea is, "I'm gonna live another 70 years," maybe, right?

Maybe not, and maybe it's deep and wide.

That's what I like to say.

Maybe life isn't long, maybe it's just deep and wide.

So take those moments.

Maybe we just have one day, maybe we have 10 days, maybe we have 10 years, we don't know.

And so we try really hard every day to find...

It's not always, but at least we call it the pockets of happiness and the pockets of peace.

So maybe the whole day is not perfect, but at least we have those moments and always pockets of love.

Like, the pockets are not even like...

The pockets are so deep in the love.

I think that's like...

The love is the constant.

- Michael, the love is the constant.

Talk about this lady here.

I mean, she's just on fire, such great energy.

If you could give three words about the love that she gives you.

- Only three.

- I know.

- I could give you 1 million or 2 million.

- [Carla] I'm certain.

- Or 3 million or 4 million.

Three words.

- Or more.

(Carla and Ashlee laughs) - Beautiful charismatic mother.

- Aw.

- I think that is the perfect place to end this.

What a treat, and so wise.

Life is not linear.

I want to thank you, Michael and Ashlee, for telling us your story.

- [Michael] Thank you.

- And just thank you all for joining us and sharing your knowledge.

What a beautiful story that has so many lessons attached to it, both practical and emotional.

Thank you for joining us.

(uplifting music)