REWIND."

I'M BILL NIGUT.

IT'S THE END OF YET ANOTHER WEEK ON OUR SHOW, AND I'M VERY GLAD, AS ALWAYS TO HAVE ALL OF YOU WITH US.

AND I NEED TO POINT OUT RIGHT AWAY AT THE TOP OF THE SHOW THAT YOU CANNOT ONLY LISTEN TO US TODAY, YOU CAN WATCH US.

IF YOU COME TO THE GPB WEBSITE, GPB.ORG, YOU'LL SEE A BUTTON THAT WILL ALLOW YOU TO WATCH THE VIDEO OF THE VIDEO THERE OR WATCH US ON FACEBOOK LIVE AT THE GPB NEWS FACEBOOK PAGE.

AND WE'RE PLEASED TO HAVE A VIDEO VERSION AVAILABLE TO ALL OF YOU.

WE'RE TRYING IT OUT TODAY AND SEE HOW IT GOES IN THE WEEKS AHEAD.

FRIDAY OUR ATTEMPT IS TO DO THE SHOW ON VIDEO.

RIGHT TO THE PANEL.

PATRICIA MURPHY IS WITH US.

THE POLITICAL REPORTER AND POLITICAL COLUMNIST.

SHE WRITES THE LITTLE INSIDER COLUMN ON WEDNESDAYS AND SUNDAYS IN THE PAPER.

HI, PATRICIA.

YOUR SUNDAY COLUMN IS ALREADY UP ONLINE.

IT'S AN INTERESTING INTERVIEW WITH SENATOR RAPHAEL WARNOCK WHO HAS BEEN AT THE CENTER OF A LOT OF THE DEBATE.

>> THANK YOU.

GOOD TO BE HERE.

>> I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT SOME OF THE THINGS RAPHAEL WARNOCK HAD TO SAY TO YOU.

JUST WHAT DO WE MEAN ABOUT SUBURBAN WOMEN.

WE'RE JOINED, ALSO, BY A PROFESSOR OF POLITICAL SCIENCE AND THE INSTITUTE FOR THE STUDY OF RACE AND AT EMORY UNIVERSITY.

ANOTHER WEEK OF SCHOOL FOR YOU THIS WEEK.

>> IT WAS BUSY.

>> YOU'RE WORKING ON OTHER PROJECTS, AREN'T YOU.

>> YES.

>> THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE TODAY AND THE CEO, THE BOSS, RENEE, JOINS US AS WELL TODAY.

HOW ARE YOU DOING, RENEE?

>> VERY GOOD.

IT'S BOSS HOGG TO OTHERS.

>> OKAY.

THANK YOU FOR THAT CLARIFICATION.

LET'S GET RIGHT TO THE NEWS.

FANI WILLIS HAS EITHER HERSELF DIRECTLY OR OTHERS AROUND HER HAVE HINTED AT THE FACT SHE HAS BEEN LOOKING AT WHETHER TO EMPANEL A SPECIAL GRAND JURY TO CONTINUE HER INVESTIGATION INTO CRIMINAL WRONGDOING BY DONALD TRUMP IN HIS ATTEMPTS TO CHANGE THE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION IN 2020.

NOW SHE HAS GONE TO THE CHIEF JUDGE OF THE FULTON COUNTY SUPERIOR COURT AND ASK HE GIVE HER APPROVAL TO GO AHEAD AND EMPANEL THAT GRAND JURY.

WHY IS THAT SIGNIFICANT?

>> THERE ARE TWO TYPES OF GRAND JURY.

A SPECIAL GRAND JURY WHICH IS SOMETHING FANI WILLIS IS REQUESTING HERE IS SOMETHING THAT IS A LONGER TERM SITUATION AND FOCUS ON A SINGLE CASE THAT INVOLVES A LOT OF WITNESSES AND A LOT OF DOCUMENTS.

AND SO THIS TELLS US THAT SHE IS STARTING TO ACQUIRE A GOOD BIT OF EVIDENCE FOR A JURY TO REVIEW IT DOES MEAN SHE THINKS SHE HAS ENOUGH TO GO FORWARD AND IT'S ENOUGH THAT IT SHOULDN'T BE JUST ANY GROUP OF JURORS WHO HAPPEN TO BE IMPANELLED FOR A SET PERIOD OF TIME AND SHE HAS A SPECIFIC ONE.

SHE SAYS SHE HAS SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE.

SHE DID INDICATE THAT THE INFORMATION THAT SHE HAS IT'S LEADING HER IN A DIRECTION TO PRESIDENT TRUMP.

>> I NOTED THE SAME THING IN FANI WILLIS' STORY THAT THE AGC PUBLISHED ON FANI WILLIS, THE SAME SENTENCE PATRICIA JUST DID.

HERE IS THE DIRECT QUOTE.

SHE SAID TO THE CHIEF JUDGE IN MAKING HER REQUEST THAT THE D.A.

'S OFFICE HAS, QUOTE, RECEIVED INFORMATION INDICATING A REASONABLE PROBABILITY THAT THE STATE OF GEORGIA'S ADMINISTRATION OF ELECTIONS IN 2020 INCLUDING THE ELECTION OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES WAS SUBJECT TO POSSIBLE CRIMINAL DISRUPTIONS.

>> IT'S NOT JUST PRESIDENT TRUMP.

THERE ARE OTHER PEOPLE.

PARTICULARLY RUDY GIULIANI AND HIS INTERFERENCE IN THE RACE.

WEIGH SEEN THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO DON'T WANT TO COOPERATE.

IT PROVIDES INFORMATION THAT'S BEING REQUESTED THIS IS A WAY FOR WHICH WILL TOYS GAIN LEVERAGE OVER SOME WITNESSES WHO MIGHT BE RELUCTANT OR RECALCITRANT.

>> WE MIGHT SAY GIULIANI'S ACTIVITIES AND OTHERS SHE COULD BE LOOKING INTO.

WE DON'T KNOW AT THIS POINT.

RENEE, LET ME GET YOU TO WEIGH IN.

WE KNOW THAT GETTING CRIMINAL CHARGES OF ELECTION INTERFERENCE IS GOING TO BE TRICKY BECAUSE IT REQUIRES, I BELIEVE, IF SHE DOES CHARGE DONALD TRUMP, IT WILL BE BECAUSE SHE WILL HAVE EVIDENCE THAT HE KNOWINGLY BROKE THE LAW IN TRYING TO OVERTURN THE ELECTION.

RENEE, ARE YOU THERE?

I THINK MAYBE WE'VE GOT A PROBLEM -- RENEE, DO YOU HEAR ME?

>> I JUST HEARD YOU, YEAH.

IT WAS A LITTLE GARBLED THERE BUT I THINK I GOT THE GIST.

LOOK, TRUMP IS HAVING A BAD WEEK, YOU KNOW.

I THINK SO MANY FOLKS ARE OUT THERE SAYING BIDEN IS HAVING A ROUGH GO OF IT, BUT THINGS SEEM TO BE CRASHING DOWN AROUND TRUMP, GRAND JURY AFTER GRAND JURY.

I THINK WHAT STRUCK ME ABOUT READING WHAT WILLIS HAS REPORTED WAS REALLY THE -- GETTING TO HEAR THE AUDIO TAPE OF TRUMP'S CALL TO RAFFENSPERGER ALL OVER AGAIN AND RELIVING JUST HOW IMMEDIATE AND ALARMING THAT CALL REALLY WAS.

AND I THINK THE MORE THAT TAPE IS PLAYED GOING FORWARD -- IT'S THE COURT OF PUBLIC OPINION, THAT WILL CONTINUE TO CRUSH TRUMP AND WE'LL SEE HOW THAT AFFECTS EVERYONE AROUND HIM.

AGAIN, EVERYONE IS PLAYING THAT TAPE ALL OVER AGAIN.

FOR TRUMP OR ANYONE ON HIS TEAM, I WISH THAT TAPE WOULD GO AWAY.

>> PATRICIA, WE DO KNOW THERE ARE THOSE WHO BELIEVE FANI WILLIS, BECAUSE OF THE PANDEMIC, HAS A HUGE BACKLOG OF CASE THAT IS ARE WELL WITHIN HER JURISDICTION THAT SHE HAS TO PROCESS, CLEAR, DO SOMETHING WITH, AND THERE ARE THOSE WHO HAVE SAID, DON'T DO THIS.

WE DON'T NEED YOU TO TURN ATTENTION TO A CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.

SHE, THOUGH, BELIEVES IF THERE WAS CRIMINAL WRONGDOING HERE, HE SHOULD NOT BE EXEMPT FROM BEING INVESTIGATED THOROUGHLY AND POTENTIALLY PROSECUTED, PATRICIA.

>> YEAH, I'VE SPOKEN WITH HER ABOUT THIS VERY QUESTION AND THE THOUGHT FROM REPUBLICANS.

DOESN'T FULTON COUNTY HAVE ENOUGH ON ITS PLATE WITHOUT JUMPING INTO THIS SITUATION WHICH COULD BE EXPLOSIVE FROM A MEDIA STANDPOINT AND FROM THE WEIGHT OF INVESTIGATING A FORMER PRESIDENT.

SHE HAS SAID THAT IF SOMEBODY COMMITS A CRIME IN HER JURISDICTION, IT DOESN'T MATTER IF THEY ARE SOMEBODY WHO IS LIVING ON THE STREET, IT DOESN'T MATTER IF IT'S SOMEBODY WHO USED TO LIVE IN THE WHITE HOUSE, THAT PERSON SHOULD BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE.

AND SO THAT'S WHAT SHE SAID THIS IS ABOUT.

SHE SAID SHE WON'T LOOK THE OTHER WAY NO MATTER WHO COULD BE COMMITTING A CRIME.

SOMETHING THAT I THINK WILL BE REALLY IMPORTANT TO WATCH FOR WHEN SHE WAS ASKING FOR MORE RESOURCES FROM THE FULTON COUNTY COMMISSION SHE WAS SAYING SHE NEEDED MORE PROSECUTORS AND MORE INVESTIGATORS, AND THIS HAD TO DO WITH MUR CHARGES, BY THE WAY, BUT THIS IS HER APPROACH TO PROSECUTING.

SHE'S A VERY METICULOUS PROSECUTOR, AND SHE TOLD ME SHE DIDN'T WANT -- SHE DIDN'T FEEL LIKE SHE WAS IN A POSITION TO BRING CHARGES AGAINST A NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO HAD BEEN ACCUSED OF A CRIME BECAUSE SHE DIDN'T HAVE THE EVIDENCE, SHE DIDN'T HAVE THE INVESTIGATION.

SHE DIDN'T HAVE THE FULL FLEDGED SUPPORT OF THE PROSECUTORS THAT SHE NEEDED, AND SHE WOULDN'T BRING CHARGES AGAINST PEOPLE SHE DIDN'T THINK SHE HAD A CHANCE OF CONVICTING.

THAT'S AN IMPORTANT MIND-SET AS FANI WILLIS CONTINUES WITH THIS CASE AS WELL.

>> ANDRA, BEFORE WE MOVE ON TO ANOTHER TOPIC, WHAT ARE THE HAZARDS OF FANI WILLIS ASKING FOR THIS SPECIAL GRAND JURY, IMPANELLING IT, WATCHING IT BEGIN TO DO ITS WORK IN THE MIDDLE OF A VERY IMPORTANT ELECTION YEAR?

>> THERE'S AUMS THE RISK OF POLITICALIZATION AND THERE FRANKLY IS THE RISK OF FAILURE.

AND SO IF NOTHING COMES OF THIS GRAND JURY, THEN SOME PEOPLE WILL SAY THAT SHE WASTED TIME AND RESOURCES ON THIS PARTICULAR EFFORT.

I THINK WE ALSO NEED TO THINK ABOUT WHAT THE GREATER GOOD OF THIS IS.

WE'VE WATCHED THIS GET POLITICIZED TO THE POINT THINGS HAVEN'T HAPPENED YET.

THIS WAS SOMETHING FOR WHICH WHEN WE ADD JANUARY 6th INTO IT DONALD TRUMP SHOULD HAVE BEEN IMPEACHED AND PRECLUDED FROM RUNNING FOR OFFICE AGAIN, BUT THE ELECTED POLITICIANS DID NOT TAKE THEIR RESPONSIBILITY SERIOUSLY ENOUGH, WE COULDN'T GET TWO-THIRDS OF THE SENATE TO GO ALONG WITH THE VOTE FOR THEM TO DO WHAT THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO DO.

SO SOMEBODY HAS TO DO IT.

IN SOME WAYS THIS IS FEDERALISM WORKING TO DEAL WITH THINGS AT THE STATE LEVEL, AT THE LOCAL LEVEL, THAT THE NATIONAL LEVEL MIGHT NOT BE EQUIPPED TO DO FOR POLITICS SAKE.

SHE WILL CATCH A LOT OF HEAT FOR THIS FOR THE REASONS YOU AND PATRICIA TALKED ABOUT ALREADY AND FOR OTHERS THAT WE CAN IMAGINE ARE LIKELY -- ON THE OTHER HAND LET'S NOT LET OUR LYING EYES FOOL US.

WE SAW WHAT WE SAW.

WE HEARD WHAT WE HER.

DONALD TRUMP IS AN ADULT.

HE WAS LEADER OF THE FREE WORLD.

HE WASN'T THAT STUPID.

AND SO WE SHOULDN'T ACT LIKE, OH, HE DIDN'T KNOW WHAT HE WAS DOING WHEN HE SPECIFICALLY ASKED FOR 11,780 VOTES, TO THE NUMBER, TO GET HIM OVER.

>> IT'S INTERESTING, RENE, YOU'RE THE ONE WHO MENTIONED -- AN ESPECIALLY BAD WEEK FOR TRUMP.

THE UNITED STATES SUPREME COURT REJECTED HIS APPEAL THAT THE PAPERS THAT THE JANUARY 6 COMMITTEE WANTS TO LOOK AT SHOULD BE PROTECTED BY EXECUTIVE PRIVILEGE.

THE SUPREME COURT SAID, NONSENSE, THEY CAN BE TURNED OVER.

SOME OF THOSE PAGES ARE ALREADY IN THE COMMITTEE'S HANDS.

AND, OF COURSE, AT THE SAME TIME NEW YORK INVESTIGATORS HAVE NOW INDICATED THEY HAVE A LOT OF EVIDENCE THAT DONALD TRUMP IN HIS BUSINESS DEALINGS INFLATED THE VALUE OF HIS HOLDINGS AND ALTHOUGH THAT'S A CIVIL INVESTIGATION, THERE'S ALSO A PARALLEL CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION GOING ON THERE AND WHATEVER THEY'RE HOLDING THAT CHOSE THIS INFLATION OF ASSETS COULD ACCRUE TO THE CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION AS WELL.

SO THIS IS NOT DONALD TRUMP'S BEST WEEK.

THE WAGONS ARE CIRCLING IN ALL AREAS OF HIS LIFE.

POLITICALLY, BUSINESS, OF COURSE, AND EVEN HIS FAMILY.

THERE WAS NEWS OF IVANKA BEING ASKED TO COOPERATE WITH THE JANUARY 6th COMMITTEE.

WHETHER SHE'S GOING TO OR NOT, WHO KNOWS.

HIS DAUGHTER IS NOW LOOPED IN, DOESN'T PORTEND GOOD THINGS FOR THE FORMER PRESIDENT.

>> SO, PATRICIA, I WANT TO BRING THIS BACK TO GEORGIA, BUT LET ME DO IT IN A SLIGHTLY ROUND ABOUT WAY.

I DON'T HAVE THE NUMBERS IN FRONT OF ME AT THE MOMENT BUT THERE WAS AN NBC POLL THIS WEEK THAT ASKED REPUBLICANS, ARE YOU LOYAL TO THE REPUBLICAN PARTY OR TO DONALD TRUMP, WHERE DO YOU GIVE YOUR ALLEGIANCE?

AND THE POLL SHOWED BY A PRETTY OVERWHELMING MARGIN PEOPLE SAID IT WAS TO THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

DONALD TRUMP WAS ONLY IN THE 30s IN TERMS OF NOT NECESSARILY APPROVAL BUT BEING THE PERSON THEY BELIEVE IS THE CENTER OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

NOW WE KNOW HOW MANY REPUBLICANS IN GEORGIA ARE RUNNING ON THE BASIS OF THEIR ALLEGIANCE TO DONALD TRUMP.

IS THERE ANY REASON GIVEN THE ACTIVITIES THIS WEEK, GIVEN THIS POLL, WHICH IS ONLY ONE POLL, IT'S GOING TO GIVE ANYBODY PAUSE TO THINK ABOUT WHETHER TRUMP IS GOING TO BE A LIABILITY?

>> NOT YET.

THE PEOPLE WHO ARE IN WITH TRUMP ARE IN WITH TRUMP AND THE PEOPLE ACTING LIKE THEY ARE IN WITH TRUMP ARE ACTING THAT WAY UNTIL THERE'S GOOD EVIDENCE THEY SHOULD NOT ACT THAT WAY.

I THINK WE WOULD NEED TO SEE A LOT OF DURABLE POLLING SHOWING THAT AS A REAL TREND AND THEN PEOPLE, ELECTED LEADERS, WILL START TO NEED TO HEAR FROM THEIR OWN VOTERS, CONSTITUENTS, COUNTY LEVEL REPUBLICAN LEADERS.

HEY, LISTEN, DONALD TRUMP HAS TAKEN IT ONE STEP TOO FAR.

DONALD TRUMP HAS TAKEN MANY STEPS TOO FAR.

HOWEVER, THAT HASN'T CHANGED THE MINDS OF MANY GEORGIA VOTERS ESPECIALLY GEORGIA REPUBLICAN VOTERS.

WE'LL HAVE TO SEE.

I THINK THIS IS NOT -- OBVIOUSLY IT'S NOT BEEN A GREAT WEEK FOR THE PRESIDENT BUT WE JUST DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHAT IT DOES TO AN ELECTION YEAR INSIDE THE REPUBLICAN PRIMARY ELECTORATE AND THAT'S WHY IT IS SO VERY HARD TO BE A REPUBLICAN THESE DAYS IF YOU DON'T WANT TO SAY EXACTLY HOW YOU FEEL ABOUT DONALD TRUMP BECAUSE IT'S VERY CLEAR IT'S A DYNAMIC AND UNKNOWABLE SITUATION.

>> RENE, CERTAINLY ONE OF DONALD TRUMP'S MOST LOYAL SUPPORTERS IN GEORGIA HAS BEEN DAVID PERDUE.

IN FACT, THERE'S EVERY REASON TO THINK THAT HE'S RUNNING FOR GOVERNOR PRIMARILY BECAUSE DAVID -- DONALD TRUMP SAID, PLEASE, TAKE ON BRIAN KEMP.

VINDICATE ME IN GEORGIA.

AND OF COURSE THIS WEEK DAVID PERDUE CONTINUED THIS THEME OF FRAUDULENT ELECTIONS IN GEORGIA, RENE, BY CALLING FOR THE CREATION OF A SPECIAL ELECTION POLICE UNIT TO TRACK DOWN THE WRONGDOING THAT TO THE BEST OF OUR KNOWLEDGE BARELY EXISTS IN GEORGIA ELECTIONS.

BUT IT DOES CONTINUE HIS HAMMERING AWAY AT BRIAN KEMP WHO HE SAID IN TALKING ABOUT THIS POLICE FORCE DIDN'T MOVE QUICKLY ENOUGH TO STUDY WHETHER -- WHO HE MOVED TOO QUICKLY IN CERTIFYING THE ELECTION SHOULD HAVE DONE AN INDEPENDENT ANALYSIS, AN INDEPENDENT AUDIT.

AND SO HE CONTINUES THAT PRO-TRUMP THEME, RENE.

>> LISTEN, I DO THINK THAT IT'S INCREDIBLY RISKY FOR ALL OF THE INDIVIDUALS THAT ARE HITCHING THEIR CARS TO THE TRUMP MOBILE BECAUSE THEY'RE DOING SO IN ADOPTING WHAT HAS BEEN CONSIDERED JUST THE BIG LIE.

AGAIN, GOING BACK TO HOW WE STARTED THE SHOW, THE AUDIO RECORDING OF TRUMP ASKING RAFFENSPERGER TO FIND HIM 11,000 VOTES, THAT'S GOING TO PLAY AND PLAY ON.

FOLKS WHO HAVE EITHER IN THE CENTER, WHO AREN'T NECESSARILY A PART OF ALL THINGS TRUMP ARE GOING TO SEE THIS AS NOT BEING THE WAY THAT THEY WANT THEIR POLITICIANS TO GOVERN.

AND SO IT'S INCREDIBLY RISKY.

THERE HAS BEEN NO EVIDENCE OF VOTER FRAUD.

WHICH MAKES ALL OF THIS JUST POLITICAL THEATER.

>> ANDRA -- I APOLOGIZE, RENE.

DID YOU WANT TO FINISH THAT?

>> IT'S POLITICAL THEATER IN A DANGEROUS WAY.

>> THANK YOU FOR THAT.

ANDRA, HERE IS A QUOTE FROM PERDUE ABOUT THE WAY THAT KEMP, HE CLAIMS, CERTIFIED THE ELECTION TOO QUICKLY.

THE PERDUE QUOTE IS, LEAVE IT TO A 20-YEAR AND THEY LOST CONFIDENCE THEIR VOTE WOULD COUNT.

THE FACT THEIR VOTES DID COUNT.

JOE BIDEN WON THE ELECTION.

AND, ANDRA, I BELIEVE I'M CORRECT THE STATUTES IN GEORGIA DON'T ALLOW A GOVERNOR TO DO ANYTHING BUT AUTOMATIC RECERTIFY THE RESULTS OF AN ELECTION.

>> WELL, SENATOR PERDUE IS TRYING TO HAVE IT BOTH WAYS, TRYING TO RUN THE 2014 SENATE RACE IN THE 2022 GUBERNATORIAL RACE AT THE SAME TIME.

HE HAS SIX YEARS OF FEDERAL OFFICE HOLDING EXPERIENCE UNDER HIS BELT, BUT HE WANTS TO PRESENT HIM SEVEN AS A FRESH NEW OUTSIDER IN THIS PARTICULAR INSTANCE AND I DON'T THINK THAT IS WORKING.

FROM THE OPTICS OF THIS AND THE HISTORY OF VOTER INTIMIDATION AND THE IDEA OF A FORCE COMING IN TO INVESTIGATE VOTER FRAUD WHICH LOOKS LIKE ABUSE AND INTIMIDATION, WHICH VOTING RIGHTS ADVOCATES, I THINK, ARE RIGHTFULLY CONCERNED ABOUT IS AN ISSUE.

THERE'S ALSO THE NOTION OF HOW THIS IS COMPLETELY DERIVATIVE.

HE'S JUST RIPPING OFF RON DeSANTIS AND JUMPING ON A PARTICULAR BANDWAGON FMT THEY WANT INDEPENDENT, CREATIVE, FRESH LEADERSHIP, THE IDEA OF SOMEBODY RIPPING OFF THE IDEAS THAT ARE CRAZY FROM THE GUY FROM THE NEXT STATE ISN'T THE BEST WAY STRATEGICALLY TO GO ABOUT DOING THIS.

BUT WHAT HE'S DOING IS HE'S TAPPING INTO THE ANGER AND THE IRE OF REPUBLICANS WHO ARE INVESTED IN THIS BIG LIE AT THIS POINT AND DON'T SEEM TO WANT TO LET IT GO.

>> PATRICIA, THE JOLT HAD ELITE ITEMS THAT WERE STARTLING IN SOME WAYS.

WE ALREADY KNEW, TO CONTINUE THIS TEAM ABOUT REPUBLICANS HERE IN THE STATE PROMOTING THERE WAS FRAUD IN THE ELECTION, WE ALREADY HAD KNOWN THAT WHILE THE SLATE OF ELECTORS WAS BEING CERTIFIED AT THE STATE CAPITOL, A GROUP OF REPUBLICANS LED BY STATE PARTY CHAIRMAN DAVID SCHAEFER WAS MEETING BEHIND CLOSED DOORS AND ELECTING AN ALTERNATE AND ILLEGAL GROUP OF ELECTORS TRYING TO BE, I GUESS, PLACE HOLDERS SHOULD THE ENTIRE ELECTION BE OVERTURNED.

AND WHAT WAS REPORTED THIS MORNING IS THAT JOHNNY ISAACSON'S OLDEST SON, JOHN, WAS INITIALLY APPROACHED ABOUT JOINING THAT GROUP AND SAID NO.

IT'S JUST INTERESTING GIVEN, AS WE THINK ABOUT JOHNNY ISAACSON, WHO WOULD NEVER HAVE PARTICIPATED IN THAT SORT OF THING, THAT HIS SON, TOO, REJECTED IT.

PATRICIA?

>> SO "THE WASHINGTON POST" ADDED SOME REPORTING YESTERDAY TO WHAT WE DID ALREADY KNOW.

AND FOR PEOPLE WHO DON'T KNOW, EACH PARTY HAS A SLATE OF ELECTORS WHO WILL CAST ELECTORAL VOTES FOR THE WINNER OF THE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION AND IF THE REPUBLICAN WIN THAT IS SLATE OF REPUBLICAN ELECTORS PUTS THEIR NAME BEFORE CONGRESS SO THEY CAN BE COUNTED IN THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE.

BECAUSE JOE BIDEN WON, THERE WAS A DEMOCRATIC SLATE OF ELECTORS THAT INCLUDED PEOPLE LIKE STACY ABRAMS THAT WAS SUBMITTED TO CONGRESS.

ON THE DAY AT THE GEORGIA CAPITOL WHEN THE DEMOCRATIC ELECTORS WERE VOTED AND APPROVED THERE WAS THIS SECRET GROUP OF REPUBLICANS BEHIND CLOSED DOORS, GREG SAW THEM AND SAID WHAT'S GOING ON IN THERE?

OH, IT'S AN EDUCATION MEETING.

NOTHING TO SEE HERE.

THAT WAS THE SAME GROUP OF ELECTORS WHO WOULD HAVE VOTED FOR TRUMP IN THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE.

ORIGINALLY JOHN ISAACSON WAS SUPPOSED TO BE IN THAT GROUP HAD TRUMP WON GEORGIA, WHICH HE DID NOT, WHEN THIS ENTIRE PLAN UNFOLDED AND HE HEARD THE DETAILS, HE SAID, NO, NO, I AM NOT GOING TO BE A PART OF THAT.

OTHER ELECTORS DID SAY THEY WOULD BE A PART OF THAT AND GOP CHAIRMAN SCHAEFER IS CHIEF AMONG THEM.

THAT WAS THE LIST THAT WAS MEANT TO BE SENT TO CONGRESS ON JANUARY 6th IF REPUBLICANS HAD SUCCEEDED IN STOPPING THE CERTIFICATION OF THE ELECTION ON JANUARY 6th.

IT WAS 16 PEOPLE AND THAT IS WHAT JOHN ISAACSON SAID, I AM ABSOLUTELY NOT GOING TO PARTICIPATE IN THAT.

AND SOAP THAT'S THE NEWS WE LEARNED YESTERDAY.

>> ANDRA?

>> I THINK THIS IS REALLY IMPORTANT FOR REPUBLICANS.

ELECTORS GET CHOSEN IN THE BROAD SUN LIGHT IN THE SUM EARP BEFORE AN ELECTION YEAR SO THOSE SLATES ARE CHOSEN.

PEOPLE GOING BEHIND DOORS HAVING SECRET MEETINGS TO PUT IN OTHER PEOPLE WHO WILL DO THE PRESIDENT'S BIDDING SHOULD GIVE EVERY PARTISAN CAUSE FOR ALARM.

THIS COUPLED WITH THE THINGS WE'VE HEARD ABOUT IN OTHER PLACES WHERE STATES WHERE THERE WERE FAKE SORT OF ELECTION CERTIFICATION FORMS THAT WERE GOING TO BE SENT TO THE NATIONAL ARCHIVES, I GUESS IN THE HOPES SOME HISTORIAN COULD FIND IT LATER AND SAY, SEE, THIS IS WHAT WAS HAPPENING IN ARIZONA, THIS SHOULD TELL YOU THAT IF THERE'S ANY CONSPIRACY GOING ON, IT'S NOT A CONSPIRACY TO -- THE WHITE HOUSE, IT WAS A CONSPIRACY TO KEEP DONALD TRUMP IN.

WE SHOULD ALL BE OUTRAGED ABOUT THIS BUT IN PARTICULAR REPUBLICANS SHOULD BE OUTRAGED ABOUT PEOPLE DOING THIS IN THEIR NAME TRYING TO SUGGEST THAT THE ENDS JUSTIFY THE MEANS.

>> RENE?

>> I AM STRUCK BY WHAT WE'VE ALL BASICALLY REGARDED AS THE LIZ CHENEY WING OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, RIGHT, WHERE INDIVIDUALS THAT DO NOT WANT TO ASSOCIATE THEMSELVES THE DIRECTION TRUMP'S REPUBLICAN PARTY IS HEADING, ISAACSON NOT PARTICIPATING IN WHAT LOOKS LIKE A JUNIOR HIGH PEER PRESSURE MOMENT IS HAPPENING ALL OVER THE COUNTRY.

AND SO IT WILL BE INTERESTING HOW MUCH THAT PLAYS A ROLE WHEN IT COMES TIME TO GO TO THE POLLS.

>>> ALL RIGHT.

LET'S DO THIS.

WE HAVE SO MUCH MORE ON OUR PLATE TO TALK ABOUT TODAY, SO LET'S GET OUR FIRST BREAK OF THE SHOW OUT OF THE WAY.

WE'LL COME BACK IN JUST A MINUTE WITH MORE ON TODAY'S "POLITICAL REWIND."

>>> RENE ALEGRIA, PATRICIA MURPHY AND ANDRA GILLESPIE JOIN ME.

KEMP APPEARED ON A PANEL TALKING ABOUT -- TALKING TO THE AUDIENCE AT THE LARGEST GUN SHOW IN THE COUNTRY.

TALKING ABOUT HIS BILL TO ESTABLISH WHAT WE CALL CONSTITUTIONAL CARRY, THE RIGHT TO CARRY WITHOUT A PERMIT, A CONCEALED WEAPON WITHOUT A PERMIT.

IT'S A MAJOR PLANK IN HIS PLATFORM.

HE JUST ALSO PUT INTO HIS BUDGET, I THINK, SOMETHING LIKE $600 MILLION TO BUILD TWO NEW PRISONS.

IT'S A TOUGH ON CRIME MESSAGE THAT WE HAVEN'T REALLY SEEN FOR A LONG TIME BECAUSE NATHAN DIEHL TOOK STEPS TO LOOK AT REHABILITATION AND BRINGING PEOPLE BACK IN TO SOCIETY RATHER THAN LOCKING THEM UP, RIGHT?

>> YES.

I THINK THAT IS A REALLY GOOD WAY TO CHARACTERIZE IT.

ON THE CONSTITUTIONAL CARRY AND PERMITLESS CARRY, WHICH ARE THE SAME THING, THAT IS THE SITUATION WHERE BRIAN KEMP HAS LONG SUPPORTED THAT BUT NEVER PUT IT FORWARD AS A PRIMARY PLANK OF HIS PLATFORM, NOT HIS TOP PRIORITY.

THIS YEAR WITH THE DAVID PERDUE CHALLENGE LOOMING OUT THERE, GOVERNOR KEMP CAME FORWARD IMMEDIATELY IN THE NEW YEAR AND SAID THIS WILL BE ONE OF OHIOEST PRIORITIES AND SAID IN THE STATE OF THE STATE, A TON OF POLITICAL CAPITAL BEHIND TO GET THIS THROUGH GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

I THINK IT'S A VERY STRONG BET THAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN.

AT THE SAME TIME DAVID PERDUE SAID THAT'S MY IDEA AND HE'S FOLLOWING ALONG.

WE WILL CONTINUE TO SEE THIS PUSH AND PULL BETWEEN KEMP AND PURDUE.

ONE QUICK THING I WANTED TO MENTION ABOUT THE ELECTION POLICE FORCE DAVID PERDUE HAS INTRODUCED, THERE ARE ALREADY DOZENS OF INVESTIGATORS IN THE STATE.

IT'S NOT LIKE COMPLAINTS ARE NOT INVESTIGATED.

THEY ARE.

THEY'RE INVESTIGATED BY THE SECRETARY OF STATE'S OFFICE ON THE GBI.

I WANTED TO GIVE PEOPLE SOME CONFIDENCE THAT IF THERE IS AN ELECTION ALLEGATION OF FRAUD THAT'S THOROUGHLY INVESTIGATED ALREADY EVEN THOUGH THE PROPOSAL FROM PERDUE MAKES IT SEEM THAT'S NOT THE CASE.

>> ANDRA, IT'S IMPORTANT TO TALK ABOUT TOUGH ON CRIME MESSAGING HAS NOT BEEN THE EXCLUSIVE PROVINCE OF REPUBLICANS.

I GO BACK TO THE DAYS IN 1990 ESTABLISHED TWO STRIKES AND YOU'RE OUT, THE TOUGHEST, TOUGHEST MEASURES TO CRACK DOWN ON VOLENT CRIMINALS IN THE COUNTRY.

AND THEN THE CLINTON CRIME BILL WHICH REALLY HAUNTED HILLARY CLINTON IN HER BID FOR PRESIDENT.

BUT WHAT'S FASCINATING ABOUT THAT IS THE MORE RECENT TREND EPITOMIZED BY PEOPLE LIKE NATHAN DIEHL TO THINK DIFFERENTLY ABOUT HOW TO DEAL WITH, AGAIN, BRINGING PEOPLE BACK INTO SOCIETY, GIVING THEM A SECOND CHANCE.

WHAT'S HAPPENING HERE, GOING ON IN A LAW AND ORDER MOMENT, PRESIDENT TRUMP CERTAINLY REVIVED IT IN THE 2020 ELECTION AND IT STILL IS IT LINGERING INTO THE 2022 ELECTION AND POSSIBLY BEYOND.

ALSO, WE ARE IN A MOMENT WHERE CRIME RATES ARE INCREASING AND THERE IS CONCERN ABOUT CRIME.

THAT WAS THE CASE IN THE EARLY 1990s SO PART OF THE REASON ABOUT ADDRESSING THOSE ISSUES.

IT'S ALSO THE REASON WE'VE SEEN DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS TRY TO ADDRESS THOSE ISSUES BECAUSE THOSE ISSUES HAVE BEEN OF CONCERN IN LOTS OF DIFFERENT PLACES.

AND THEN THERE IS THE RACIAL UNDERTONE OF THIS.

SO I WANT TO BE CLEAR ESPECIALLY IN THE DEBATE ABOUT CRIME IN THE 1990s, AFRICAN AMERICANS WERE CONCERNED ABOUT THIS, THIS IS WHY BILL CLINTON FELT COMPLETELY COMFORTABLE MAKING HIS TOUGH ON CRIME STANCES AND WHY HALF OF THE CONGRESSIONAL BLACK CAUCUS VOTED FOR THE '94 CRIME BILL.

THERE IS THIS ELEMENT OF LAW AND ORDER THAT WE CAN CHASE BACK TO THE NIXON ADMINISTRATION THAT REALLY TAPS INTO STEREOTYPES ABOUT BLACK AND BROWN CRIMINALITY.

BLACK CRIMINALITY IN PARTICULAR.

AND SO IF YOU WANT TO RILE UP A PARTICULAR BASE IN ORDER TO VOTE FOR YOU, THIS IS AN APPEAL THAT WILL WORK WITH A SIZABLE NUMBER OF WHITE VOTERS TO POSITIVE ELECTORAL EFFECT.

>> I APPRECIATE YOU PUTTING THE CLINTON CRIME BILL IN CONTEXT BECAUSE IT REALLY, IN FACT, MAKES THE POINT THAT THE TIMES CHANGE.

SO WHILE AFRICAN AMERICANS SUPPORTED IT IN '94, BY THE TIME HILLARY CLINTON WAS RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT AGAINST TRUMP, THERE WAS GREAT PUSHBACK AS TO THE IMPACT IT HAD ON AFRICAN AMERICAN COMMUNITIES.

>> THERE'S A DEBATE ABOUT IT TODAY AND THERE WERE CONCERNS ABOUT PROBABLY THE RISE OF WHAT WE WOULD NOW CALL THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE COMPLEX TODAY, SORT OF IN THE 1990s.

THERE WERE A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT CRACK IS REAL AND THIS IS HURTING BLACK COMMUNITIES.

WHAT WE SEE IS THE DIVISION, THE SAME WAY WE'LL SEE DIVISIONS WHETHER OR NOT THEY SUPPORT DEFUNDING THE POLICE.

THE REASON MOST AFRICAN AMERICANS POLITICIANS WOULD NOT SUPPORT SOMETHING LIKE THE CRIME BILL TODAY IS THEY'VE SEEN THE RISE OF MASS INCARCERATION TODAY.

THEY REALIZE THIS.

IN THE '90s, GO BACK TO ROCK FELLER DRUG LOSS, I DON'T THINK THE LONG-TERM EFFECTS OF THAT BUT TODAY PEOPLE ARE, SO THAT'S WHY THEY TEND TO BE MORE VOCAL.

YOU CAN'T BE SO VOCAL YOU IGNORE PUBLIC SAFETY AND THE IDEA THAT CRIME IS RISING AND THERE NEEDS TO BE SOMETHING DONE TO ADDRESS THAT.

>> KEMP HAS MADE IT CLEAR GETTING TOUGH ON CRIME IS A BIG PART OF HIS PLATFORM.

RENE, I WANT TO TURN TO A LAW AND ORDER ISSUE THAT IS GOING TO SEND CHILLS UP THE SPINES OF MANY PEOPLE IN THE HISPANIC COMMUNITY.

I WAS LOOKING AT YOUR WEBSITE THIS MORNING, AND INSAW A STORY THAT I HADN'T SEEN ANYWHERE ELSE.

ALEJANDRO MAJORKAS ESTABLISHING COOPERATION WITH ICE.

HE SAYS I ASK YOU TO RECONSIDER YOUR POSITION OF COOPERATION AND SEE HOW WE CAN WORK TOGETHER.

WE KNOW, RENE, MANY IN THE HISPANIC COMMUNITY SAY THAT WHEN A LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT IS WILLING TO COOPERATE WITH I.C.E.

IN TERMS OF ILLEGAL UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS THE LAW ENFORCEMENT COMMUNITY LOSES THE FAITH OF MANY IN THE HISPANIC COMMUNITY.

>> THIS GOES INTO WHAT HAS BEEN A VERY CONFUSING MESSAGING YEAR FROM THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION ON ALL THINGS IMMIGRATION.

THEY'VE DONE A LOT OF VERY GOOD THINGS AND OTHER THINGS THEY JUST HAVE BEEN LACKING IN HOW THEY ARE CLEARLY TRYING TO ACHIEVE CHANGE.

THERE ARE SO MANY FANS OF WHAT BIDEN IS DOING, OTHERS NOT SO MUCH.

WE DO HAVE TO REMIND OURSELVES THAT OBAMA WAS NOT EXACTLY FRIENDLY TO IMMIGRATION AND REFORM.

AND BIDEN -- IT'S OBAMA THREE WHEN IT COMES TO IMMIGRATION REFORM WITH THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION.

SO REACHING OUT TO MAYORS LIKE THAT IS JUST ANOTHER MARKER AND A SIGN OF WHAT I THINK IS A MUDDLED IMMIGRATION POLICY.

>> OBAMA BECAME KNOWN AS THE DEPORTER IN CHIEF AMONG MANY -- FOR THE HUGE NUMBERS OF UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS HE SENT BACK HOME.

SO ALL OF THIS, PATRICIA, BRINGS US BACK AROUND TO THIS NOTION THAT GETTING TOUGH ON CRIME SEEMS TO BE AGAIN A MAJOR ISSUE IN THE 2022 ELECTION CYCLE.

I DON'T KNOW HOW DEMOCRATS ARE RESPONDING TO THAT, QUITE HONESTLY, BUT WHAT DO THEY DO WITH THE $600 MILLION FOR BUILDING TWO NEW PRISONS?

DEMOCRATS SUGGEST THERE ARE BETTER USES FOR THAT MONEY.

HOW WILL THEY -- I NOPE THEY OPPOSE CONSTITUTIONAL CARRY FOR THE MOST PART, BUT DO DEMOCRATS WANT TO GET INTO THIS ARGUMENT?

>> I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE A PRETTY NUANCED APPROACH AND I DON'T THINK IT WILL BE A UNIFORM APPROACH AND TO THINK ABOUT HOW THE 2022 ELECTION IS GOING TO GO, YOU CAN LOOK CLEARLY AT THE 2021 ELECTION IN ATLANTA JUST A FEW MONTHS AGO WHEN CRIME WAS THE NUMBER ONE ISSUE IN THE CITY, AND THAT WAS THROUGHOUT THE CITY.

BECAUSE THE CRIME HAS BEEN GOING UP IN ATLANTA AND I THINK PEOPLE WANT TO SEE THEIR LEADERS' RESPONSES TO THAT BUT DON'T WANT TO SEE THE PENDULUM SWING SO FAR THE OTHER WAY THAT WE REPEAT THE SAME MISTAKES OF THE PAST.

AND SO I THINK IT'S GOING TO REQUIRE A REALLY NUANCED APPROACH AND I DON'T HEAR A UNIFORM RESPONSE FROM DEMOCRATS RIGHT NOW BECAUSE OF THAT SITUATION, THE SITUATION ON THE GROUND IN GEORGIA AM IT IS NOT JUST ATLANTA THAT IS A CITY STRUGGLING WITH CRIME.

SAVANNAH, ALBANY, A NUMBER OF RURAL COMMUNITIES ARE REALLY STRUGGLING RIGHT NOW.

THEY ARE LOOKING FOR POLICY CHANGES, ALSO THE FULTON COUNTY JAIL EXTREMELY OVERCROWDED.

AND SO PEOPLE ARE SAYING AS JUST A HUMANITARIAN RESOLUTION THERE NEEDS TO BE ANOTHER FACILITY BUILT TO RELIEVE THAT OVERCROWDING.

WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO SEE EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENS IN THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

WE DON'T KNOW FOR SURE AND I DO LOOK FORWARD TO UNDERSTANDING HOW DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS WILL RESPOND TO THIS MESSAGE FROM THE GOVERNOR.

>> OKAY, SO PATRICIA, LET ME ASK YOU TO START US OFF ON ANOTHER SUBJECT.

THIS WEEK WE SAW SOME SHUFFLING AROUND OF CANDIDATES ON THE DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY BALLOT.

CHARLIE BAILEY RUNNING FOR AG HAD COME FAIRLY CLOSE TO BEATING CHRIS CARR FOR THAT JOB BACK FOUR YEARS AGO.

NOW HE SAYS I'M GOING TO RUN FOR LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR INSTEAD.

MILLER, THE GRANDSON OF ZELL MILLER, RUNNING FOR LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR ON THE DEMOCRATIC BALLOT.

WHAT'S GOING ON HERE, AND HOW ARE PEOPLE RESPONDING TO THESE MANEUVERS?

>> WELL, I THINK WE'RE GOING BACK TO A LITTLE BIT OF AN ERA THAT I THOUGHT WE WERE NOT GOING TO SEE AGAIN, AND THAT IS A SITUATION WITH PARTY ELDERS, PEOPLE HIGH UP IN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY REACHING OUT TO CANDIDATES AND MAKING SOME CHANGES BASED ON WHAT THEY THINK IS GOING TO BE THE BEST SLATE GOING FORWARD.

WHERE WILL THEY HAVE THEIR STRONGEST CANDIDATES?

FOR A LONG TIME FOR DEMOCRATS IT WAS A FREE-FOR-ALL.

I'M NOT DOING IT.

YOU DO IT.

IT WAS SO HARD TO WIN THESE ELECTIONS STATEWIDE.

THERE WASN'T A LOT OF COMPETITION AND THE THING THAT ANYBODY WOULD DO IS TRY TO RECRUIT SOMEBODY.

NOW IT'S A SITUATION WHERE WITH STACY ABRAMS AT THE TOP OF THE TICKET AND LOTS OF DEMOCRATS GETTING INTO THE PRIMARIES, THERE ARE CONTESTED PRIMARIES.

THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO MESSAGE AGAINST EACH OTHER AND SPEND MONEY AGAINST EACH OTHER AND MAKE IT HARDER TO RUN AGAINST A REPUBLICAN IN THE GENERAL ELECTION.

AND THERE IS AT THIS POINT A POWER CENTER IN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY THAT IS ABLE TO REACH OUT TO SOME OF THESE LOWER BALLOT CANDIDATES AND SAY, YOU KNOW WHAT YOU SHOULD THINK ABOUT AND I'LL HELP YOU DO IT, YOU SHOULD NOT DO THIS BECAUSE IT'S GOING TO BE BAD FOR ALL OF US.

ON THE REPUBLICAN SIDE NOW THEY'VE GOT THE FREE-FOR-ALL.

I DON'T CARE WHAT YOU SAY, GOVERNOR KEMP, I'M DOING IT.

I'LL SEE YOU IN NOVEMBER.

BUT IT'S A DIFFERENT SITUATION, A NEW DAY FOR DEMOCRATS, AND WE HAVEN'T SEEN IT IN QUITE SOME TIME.

>> RENE AND THEN ANDRA, THE ONE CHANGE THAT STANDS OUT IS THE CHARLIE BAILEY DECISION TO GIVE UP RUNNING FOR AG AND MOVE TO THE LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR'S RACE BECAUSE AN EXTREMELY POPULAR CANDIDATE, THEY'RE TRYING TO CLEAR THE FIELD FOR HER AND THAT, RENE AND ANDRA, COULD BE A SIGNIFICANT DEVELOPMENT FOR DEMOCRATS, AND I'M SURE IT GIVES CHRIS CARR A LITTLE BIT OF CONSTERNATION AS WELL.

RENE?

>> I THINK WHAT WE'RE SEEING IS DEMOCRATS SUDDENLY REACHING INTO THE WIN COLUMN AND, YOU KNOW, LIKE PATRICIA SAID, DEMOCRATS JUST HAD NO CHANCE IN THE PAST.

SUDDENLY DEMOCRATS NOT ONLY HAVE A CHANCE BUT LAST YEAR NETTED 30 SEATS, AND I DO THINK THEY'RE STARTING TO UNDERSTAND THE PURPLE NOTION OF THIS STATE IS REAL AND WITH THAT COMES LET'S BE SMARTER WITH WHO WE PUT ON THE TICKET, REALLY THINK ABOUT THIS.

AND THAT'S WHERE WE'RE GETTING KIND OF THE ELDER DEMOCRATIC STATEMENT SAYING, OH, I KNOW BEST.

IT'S GOING TO BE INTERESTING HOW THAT PLAYS OUT.

>> ON THE OTHER HAND I THINK WHILE THIS DOESN'T CHANGE MY OVERALL NATIONAL ASSESSMENT THAT WE'RE BUILDING A SIX-PARTY SYSTEM AND SO FOR MY STUDENTS WE THINK OF THIS ERA AS HAVING BEEN AROUND FOR 50 YEARS WHERE PARTIES ARE WEAKER, PERSONALITY MATTERS MORE AND OTHER KINDS OF THINGS, THAT'S STILL TRUE.

BUT I THINK THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF HOW THE GEORGIA DEMOCRATIC PARTY HAS BEEN STRENGTHENING ITSELF, HOW IT'S BECOME MORE SOPHISTICATED, BETTER ORGANIZED AND STRONGER.

THE FACT THEY CAN SIT DOWN AND HAVE THESE KINDS OF FRANK CONVERSATIONS WITH CANDIDATES AND GET PEOPLE TO LOOK AT THE HANDWRITING ON THE WALL, SEE THE PROBABILITY OF RUNNING IN CERTAIN RACES AND MAKE DECISIONS ABOUT DROPPING OFF OR PERHAPS MOVING TO DIFFERENT RACES I THINK IS SOMETHING THAT IS REALLY SIGNIFICANT AND I THINK IT SHOWS THE ORGANIZATION IN 2020 WHILE IT MAY NOT ALWAYS BE SUCCESSFUL IN TERMS OF WINNING STATEWIDE OFFICES, THEY'RE THERE TO PLAY AND TO BE A SERIOUS CONTENDER.

>> ALL RIGHT.

LET'S DO THIS.

LET'S GO TO OUR FINAL BREAK OF THE SHOW AND COME BACK AND TRY TO WORK DOWN THIS LONG LIST OF ITEMS THAT WE HAVE TO DISCUSS TODAY ON "POLITICAL REWIND."

>>> WE'RE INTO THE FINAL SEGMENT OF "POLITICAL REWIND," AND I PROBABLY SHOULD HAVE REPEATED THIS AT THE START OF THE SECOND SEGMENT BUT WE'RE LIVE ON VIDEO TODAY.

YOU CAN WATCH US ON FACEBOOK LIVE, JUST GO TO THE GPB FACEBOOK PAGE AND YOU'LL SEE US THERE OR GO TO GPB.ORG AND YOU'LL SEE A BUTTON AT THE TOP OF THE PAGE THAT WILL GIVE YOU ACCESS TO OUR VIDEO.

THAT MEANS YOU'LL GET TO SEE RENE ALEGRIA, ANDRA GILLESPIE AND PATRICIA MURPHY.

AN INTRIGUING COLUMN YOU PUBLISHED THIS WEEK, BASICALLY CALLING INTO QUESTION WHO WE THINK OF WHEN WE THINK OF WHO SUBURBAN WOMEN ARE, AND THE REASON THAT'S SIGNIFICANT IN 2022 WE KNOW THAT SUBURBAN WOMEN ARE REALLY THE MOST SOUGHT AFTER INDEPENDENT LEANING VOTERS IN THE COUNTRY AND CAN HAVE A HUGE IMPACT ON WHERE THINGS GO.

WHAT HAVE WE GOTTEN WRONG ABOUT SOCCER MOMS, SUBURBAN MOMS?

TELL US WHAT YOU WERE WRITING ABOUT?

>> WELL, I HAVE HAD THIS EXPERIENCE AS FAR BACK AS WHEN I WAS IN POLITICS AND THERE WAS A TABLE FULL OF MEN AND THEY WERE SORT OF ASKING THEMSELVES WHAT MESSAGE DO WOMEN WANT TO HEAR?

WHAT SHOULD WE SAY TO WOMEN?

AND THERE WERE THREE WOMEN AT THE TABLE AND THEY NEVER ASKED US, AND THAT WAS BACK IN THE DAYS WHEN WE DIDN'T SAY.

IT HAS LONG BEEN A DEFICIENCY IN POLITICS WOMEN VOTERS ARE LITTLE UNDERSTOOD.

THERE ARE NOT A LOT OF VOICES IN POLITICAL JOURNALISM OR AT THE TOP OF THE TICKET.

AND SO I WANTED TO WRITE THIS COLUMN BECAUSE WE ARE GOING TO HEAR OVER AND OVER THIS IS BEING DONE TO APPEAL TO SUBURBAN WOMEN, SUBURBAN WOMEN IN ATLANTA.

BUT IN ATLANTA THAT IS A VERY DIFFERENT GROUP THAN, I THINK, PEOPLE ASSUME THEM TO BE.

PEOPLE PROBABLY ASSUME THAT ALL SUBURBAN WOMEN LOOK LIKE ME, WHITE, LIVE KIND OF CLOSE IN TOWN.

WHEN I LOOK AT THIS DEMOGRAPHIC OF THE ATLANTA SUBURBS, IF ANYBODY LOOKS AT THE DEMOGRAPHICS OF THE SUBURBS, KOLB COUNTY, GWINNETT COUNTY, THOSE ARE EXTREMELY DIVERSE AND THAT INCLUDES THE SUBURBAN MOMS.

SO THEY MAY BE DRIVING A MINIVAN BUT YOU ARE TALKING TO A BLACK MICROBIOLOGIST Ph.D. YOU ARE TALKING TO A LATINA WOMAN WHO IS A CEO OR BUSINESS OWNER.

IT IS NOT THE STAY-AT-HOME MOM WITH TWO KIDS AND A MINIVAN WHO I THINK SOME POLITICIANS TODAY BELIEVE THEY'RE TRYING TO APPEAL TO WITH THEIR POLICIES ON GUN REGULATIONS OR SCHOOL CHOICE OR MASKS IN SCHOOLS.

IT'S AN EXTREMELY DIFFERENT ELECTORATE ESPECIALLY IN ATLANTA, AND THAT HAS TO BE UNDERSTOOD FOR ANYBODY TALKING ABOUT POLITICS IN GEORGIA TODAY.

>> ANDRA?

>> I JUST WANT TO SAY, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR WRITING THAT ARTICLE AND I APOLOGIZE FOR NOT TWEETING IT OUT YET THIS IS SOMETHING THAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT.

THE REASON WHY THE NORTH ATLANTA SUBURBS ARE AS DEMOCRATIC AS THEY ARE TODAY, AND NOT TO SAY THE ONLY SORT OF BLOCK OF WHITE PEOPLE WHO HAVE VOTED MAJORITY DEMOCRATIC IN ELECTIONS, BUT IT'S BECAUSE PEOPLE OF COLOR HAVE MOVED IN AND THEY'RE MOVING IN FOR LOTS OF REASONS.

SO ONE GENTRIFICATION IS REAL.

PEOPLE CAN'T AFFORD TO LIVE IN CENTER CITIES ANYMORE AND HAVE MOVED OUT TO THE SUBURBS.

IMMIGRANTS WHO USED TO COME THROUGH ETHNIC ENCLAVES START THEIR AMERICAN JOURNEYS IN SUBURBS THESE DAYS.

IF WE THINK ABOUT ALM OF THESE PARTICULAR FACTORS, THERE'S WHY WE ARE SEEING -- THAT'S WHY WE COULD SEE A SIXTH DISTRICT OR SEVENTH DISTRICT LOOK THE WAY IT DOES TODAY.

EVEN OTHER THINGS LIKE WHEN PEOPLE TALK ABOUT SINGLE WOMEN, WHY SINGLE WOMEN ARE DEMOCRATIC, PEOPLE WERE REFERENCING THE KERRY BRADSHAW VOTE.

FOR OTHER STRUCTURAL REASONS THAT WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH BUT THESE SINGLE WOMEN ARE MORE LIKELY TO BE WOMEN OF COLOR WHO WERE ALREADY MORE LIKELY TO BE DEMOCRATS IN THE FIRST PLACE.

I THINK THIS CALLS FOR GREATER UNDERSTANDING AND NUANCE AND WE'RE COGNIZANT OF WHAT WE MEAN WHEN WE TALK ABOUT SUBURBS.

I CAN REMEMBER WHEN I WAS IN COLLEGE AND ON A TRIP WITH FRIENDS AND A YOUNG WOMAN ASKING ME -- WE WERE AT A HOUSING PROJECT, ON TOP OF THE HOUSING PROJECT IN NEW YORK CITY, AND HER ASKING ME DID I GROW UP IN THE INNER CITY.

I'M FROM THE SUBURBS.

THIS IDEA EVEN THOUGH I LIVE IN THE CITY NOW, I GREW UP IN THE SUBURBS JUST LIKE YOU DID.

TO HAVE THESE TYPES OF CONVERSATIONS.

>> CAN I ADD A QUICK -- >> GO AHEAD, PATRICIA.

>> AMONG THE SUBURBAN WOMEN WERE GEORGIA STATE LEGISLATORS AND JASMINE CLARK WAS ONE OF THEM.

SHE LIVES IN GWINNETT COUNTY, THE BLACK MICROBIOLOGIST Ph.D. AND SHE SAID IN GWINNETT COUNTY MORE THAN 100 LANGUAGES SPOKEN.

WE HAVE ASIA, CENTRAL AMERICA, AFRICA, AND THAT IS MY BLOCK, NOT THE COUNTY.

IT IS A DIVERSE TAPESTRY AND THOSE ARE ATLANTA SUBURBS.

>> THIS ISN'T JUST ABOUT AFRICAN AMERICAN WOMEN EITHER, OBVIOUSLY.

WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HISPANIC WOMEN AND FAMILIES AS WELL.

>> FIRST OF ALL, BE GREAT COLUMN, PATRICIA.

AGAIN, SHINING A LIGHT ON A MISCONCEPTION OUT THERE.

SOCCER MOMS OF THE '90s ARE NOT THE SOCCER MOMS OF TODAY.

AND I THINK YOUR COLUMN DID A WONDERFUL JOB IN DELINEAING THAT.

IT'S INTERESTING TO ME WHEN YOU DO GO INTO GWINNETT, MARIETTA, IT DOES FEEL LIKE YOU'RE IN QUEENS BECAUSE OF THE DIVERSITY OF THE COMMUNITY OUT THERE.

THE ASIANS FROM EVERY NATIONALITY, HISPANICS FROM EVERY NATIONALITY.

IT'S PRETTY MARVELOUS WHAT ENERGY IS HAPPENING OUT THERE IN, QUOTE, OUTSIDE THE PERIMETER.

AS FAR AS THE HISPANIC COMMUNITY, THE GROWTH IS UNDENIABLE.

THERE WAS A STAT ABOUT MARIETTA SCHOOL DISTRICT WITH THE HYPEST SHARE OF HISPANIC STUDENT APPROACHING ALMOST 40% IN MARIETTA.

THAT'S THE FUTURE OF WHERE THE SUBURBS ARE GOING.

MOMS, HISPANIC MOMS, ARE WHO YOU NEED TO APPEAL TO IF YOU'RE GOING TO WIN ANY ELECTION OUTSIDE THE PERIMETER.

>> I WANT TO WEIGH IN ON THIS, TOO, PATRICIA.

I WAS TAKEN BY THIS COLUMN FOR A COUPLE REASONS.

NUMBER ONE, I THOUGHT THE TERM SOCCER MOM WAS A CRAZY TERM TO USE.

FOR ONE SIMPLE REASON.

SOCCER IS A WORLDWIDE, A GLOBAL SPORT.

THERE IS A MORE DIVERSE POPULATION WHO FOLLOW SOCCER THAN ANY OTHER SPORT IN THE WORLD.

I GET WHAT THE POINT WAS, THAT IT WAS WHITE WOMEN WHOSE KIDS WERE PLAYING SOCCER, BUT SOCCER MOMS WAS ALWAYS WRONG.

AND, ALSO, I'M GLAD IT WAS RETIRED BECAUSE I THOUGHT IT WAS INCREDIBLY DEMEANING.

IT JUST CONJURED UP THE WORST KINDS OF WOMEN STANDING AROUND WHILE KIDS WERE PLAYING OR PRACTICING A SOCCER MATCH.

>> WELL, BILL, I'M A SOCCER MOM.

GUY TO THE SOCCER GAMES.

I'M ON THE SIDELINES.

AND THAT IS THE BEST PARTICIPATE OF MY DAY.

>> I GET THAT.

I GET THAT.

>> I DON'T DRIVE A MINIVAN.

>> I NEVERTHELESS POINT OUT YOU ARE FAR MORE THAN SOMEONE WHO STANDS LIKE MANY OF THE WOMEN YOU KNOW WHO JUST STAND AROUND AND WATCH SOCCER ALL DAY.

LET'S TALK ABOUT BUCK HEAD CITY WHILE WE GET TO THE END OF THE SHOW.

PATRICIA, ANDRE DICKENS CONTINUES WHAT HE CALLS HIS CHARM OFFENSIVE OR OTHER PEOPLE ARE CALLING A CHARMED OFFENSIVE TO WIN OVER LEGISLATORS.

I WAS INTERESTED WHEN HE ANNOUNCED HE WAS GOING TO HAVE A MINI PRECINCT ESTABLISHED IN BUCKHEAD THAT GOVERNOR KEMP PRAISED HIM FOR THAT.

GOVERNOR KEMP MADE A PUBLIC COMMENT THAT HE WAS GLAD IT WAS HAPPENING.

AND I WONDER IF IT'S FAIR TO THINK THAT GAVE US SOME HINT ABOUT WHERE GOVERNOR KEMP -- WHAT HE THINKS ABOUT THE ISSUE OF AN INDEPENDENT CITY OF BUCKHEAD.

>> WELL, WE DON'T NOPE HOW GOVERNOR KEMP -- WHAT HE WOULD DO TO GIVE THAT BUCKHEAD CITY A REFERENDUM TO HAVE AN ELECTION.

ANDRE DICKENS IS DOING THE WORK TO KEEP LEGISLATORS AND LAWMAKERS OPEN-MINDED AND THEN EVEN TO BRING SOME REPUBLICANS OVER TO HIS SIDE.

AND SO BY DO THE WORK, HE WAS IN BUCK HEAD THE DAY AFTER HE WAS ELECTED, EVEN BEFORE HE BECAME MAYOR.

THE BUCKHEAD LIBRARY, AND HAD BEEN A PRETTY CONSTANT PRESENCE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD.

SO I THINK THAT HAS DRAINED SOME OF THE ENTHUSIASM OUT OF THIS BUCKHEAD CITY MOVEMENT.

BUT AT THE SAME TIME DICKENS HAS BEEN ELSEWHERE ALL OVER THE CITY.

HE HAS OPENED THAT PRECINCT.

AND I THINK HE'S SHOWING LEGISLATORS THAT HE'S NOT GOING TO MAKE AN ARGUMENT BASED ON HIS CHARM OR THE FACT THAT HE DID COME TO VISIT THEM, WHICH IS JUST REALLY SMART POLITICS.

HE WILL DO THE UNDERLYING POLICY CHANGES THAT WILL CHANGE THE DYNAMIC NOT JUST IN BUCKHEAD BUT ACROSS THE CITY ESPECIALLY WHEN IT COMES TO CRIME BUT ALSO WHEN IT COMES TO ZONING AND GENERALLY WHEN IT COMES TO BEING A PRESENT FIGURE IN THE CITY OF ATLANTA THAT THEIR RESIDENTS CAN SEE, HIS RESIDENTS CAN SEE AND THEN THEY'RE NOT GOING TO BE GETTING COMPLAINTS FROM THEIR RESIDENTS WHERE IS MY MAYOR?

WHY IS CRIME SO HIGH?

HE'S REALLY ADDRESSING A LOT OF THESE ISSUES HEAD-ON AND THAT DOES INCLUDE PHYSICALLY GOING TO THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE, GOING TO SEE THE SPEAKER, ESTABLISHING THESE RELATIONSHIPS THAT HE'S GOING TO NEED TO RELY ON ON WHAT WILL PROBABLY BE THE BIGGEST CHALLENGE OF HIS ADMINISTRATION AND IT JUST HAPPENS TO BE COMING IN THE FIRST SEVERAL MONTHS.

>> ANDRA?

>> I SEE THE CHARM OFFENSIVE IS A SYMBOLIC PART OF THIS.

YOU CAN SEE SOME OF THE GESTURES BEING A MARRIAGE SYMBOL AND SUBSTANCE OF THE IDEA OF SHOWING UP AFTER YOU GET ELECTED, THE IDEA OF OPENING A POLICE UP STATION BUT IT IS SUBSTANTIVE BECAUSE IT WILL BE PERMANENT IN THE COMMUNITY.

AND THE OTHER BEHIND-THE-SCENES THINGS GIVING GOVERNOR KEMP COVERAGE THAT IS NOT A STATEWIDE ISSUE AND THAT IS THE IDEA THIS INITIATIVE OR PROPOSAL FOR BUCK HEAD SECESSION HAS GONE TO A COMMITTEE WHERE IT MAY DIE.

AND SOAP HE NOPES HE HAS COVER FROM JEFF DUNCAN THOUGH HE WILL NEVER SAY IT PUBLICLY.

THAT MAY BE EXPLAINING WHY HE MAY BE DROPPING LITTLE HINTS AT THIS POINT.

HE MAY NOT HAVE TO DEAL WITH THIS AS AN ISSUE THAT MEANS DAVID PERDUE CAN'T WEAPONIZE IT.

>> RENE?

>> I THINK IT'S GREAT TO SEE THE MAYOR WITH AN ENERGETIC, ENGAGING PLATFORM HERE.

WE HAVEN'T SEEN THIS IN A BIT.

AND JUST TO SEE AND PAY ATTENTION TO BUCKHEAD CITY, BUCKHEAD, ALL OF THE AREAS HE PROMISED, HE'S DOING.

OBVIOUSLY IT'S EARLY IN HIS MAYORALSHIP BUT IT'S A POSITIVE SIGN.

>> THANK YOU FOR THAT.

>>> WE ARE REALLY SHORT ON TIME.

RENE ALEGRIA, ANDRA GILLESPIE, PATRICIA MURPHY, I'M GLAD YOU COULD JOIN US.

I WANT TO SAY BRIEFLY WE LOST DICK WILLIAMS YESTERDAY.

DICK WILLIAMS -- WHEN I CAME TO ATLANTA IN 1983 TO START A CAREER AS A POLITICAL REPORTER, DICK WILLIAMS WAS ALREADY -- ALREADY -- ONE OF THE GREAT VETERAN JOURNALISTS, POLITICAL ANALYSTS IN GEORGIA AND HE HAD A LONG AND FRUITFUL CAREER.

HE WILL BE MISSED BY MANY, MANY PEOPLE WHO FOLLOWED HIM TO FIND OUT HIS TAKE ON CONSERVATIVE POLITICS IN GEORGIA.

SO WE'RE THINKING ABOUT DICK WILLIAMS ON THIS FINAL DAY OF THE WEEK.

WE'LL BE BACK NEXT WEEK.

WE'RE OUT OF TIME TODAY.

UNTIL WE SEE YOU NEXT, PLEASE TAKE CARE.

STAY HEALTHY.

WEAR YOUR MASK.

GET A BOOSTER SHOT IF YOU HAVEN'T HAD ONE.

SEE YOU, EVERYBODY.