>>> WELCOME TO ANOTHER EDITION OF "POLITICAL REWIND."

SO GLAD TO BE JOINING YOU AND GLAD YOU'RE WITH US FOR THE SHOW TODAY.

LET ME USE A REALLY FAST ALIGN TO GET US STARTED.

TEMPERATURES AT LEAST AT NORTH GEORGIA ARE PLUNGING.

IT IS GOING TO BE FRIGID HERE TOMORROW BUT POLITICS HAS NEVER BEEN HOTTER, AND WE ARE GOING TO TALK ABOUT POLITICS, OF COURSE, ON THIS SHOW TODAY.

WE'RE JOINED AS WE ALWAYS ARE ON FRIDAYS BY PATRICIA MURPHY, POLITICAL REPORTER AND COLUMNIST.

SHE WRITES TO THE POLITICAL INSIDER ON WEDNESDAYS AND SUNDAYS IN THE NEWSPAPER AND OVERSEAS THE JOLT, WHICH IS EVERY DAY AND GIVES YOU A GREAT SUMMERY OF A LOT OF INTERESTING AND IMPORTANT POITICAL NEWS.

PATRICIA, YOU HAVE POSTED YOUR COLUMN THAT WILL BE IN THE NEWSPAPER ON SUNDAY.

WE'LL PUT A LINK UP TO IT ON OUR SOCIAL MEDIA SITE BUT IT'S A REALLY -- I HAVEN'T GOT A CHANCE TO READ IT BUT YOU'RE TAKING ON A SUBJECT WE DON'T AS A STATE PAY ENOUGH ATTENTION TO, ONE THAT WE SHOULD PROBABLY BE DOING A SHOW ABOUT.

GIVE US A BRIEF INSIGHT ABOUT YOUR COLUMN TODAY.

>> YEAH, SO WITH SO MANY FIGHTS IN GEORGIA NOW HOW TO TELL OUR OWN HISTORY, I WANTED TO GET OUT OF ATLANTA AND GO TO A NEW PROJECT ON THERE TO TELL THE STORY OF THE CREEK PEOPLE WHO LIVED THROUGHOUT MIDDLE GEORGIA FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS AND WERE DRIVEN AWAY BY WHITE SETTLERS TO MAKE WAY FOR NEW PLANTATIONS.

THEY ENDED UP IN OKLAHOMA, IF YOU GO TO OKLAHOMA A LOT OF THE SAME NAMES THAT YOU SEE IN GEORGIA IS ALL THE SAME NOW A CITIZEN FROM THE CREEK NATION HAS MOVED AND PART OF TELLING THAT STORY THROUGH THE EYES OF THE DESCENDANTS OF THE PEOPLE WHO LIVED IT.

>> IT'S A SUBJECT WE REALLY NEED TO DEAL WITH AND I SHOULD POINT OUT, JEFFERS WAS ON OUR SHOW A FEW MONTHS AGO WHEN HER HIGHLY ACCLAIMED NOVEL WAS PUBLISHED AND IN THAT NOVEL, SHE TAKES US WAY, WAY BACK INTO GEORGIA HISTORY AND LOOKS AT NATIVE AMERICAN POPULATIONS AND HOW IT WAS DISPLACED:IT'S A SUBJECT THAT'S OF GREAT IMPORTANCE AND IT'S GETTING A LOT OF CURRENCY RIGHT NOW.

SO WE ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO READ THAT COLUMN.

WE'RE JOINED BY PROFESSOR OF POLITICAL SCIENCE AT EMORY UNIVERSITY, ALSO, THE DIRECTOR OF THE JAMES WELDON STUDY.

HOW ARE YOU?

>> I'M WELL HOW ARE YOU?

>> I'M TERRIFIC.

THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE TODAY.

THE CEO OF MUNDO HISPANICO DIGITAL IS WITH US.

WE'RE TRYING TO GET RENE'S AUDIO WORKING RIGHT NOW WE'RE HAVING A LITTLE BIT OF AN ISSUE WITH IT.

WE CERTAINLY WILL HAVE HIM JOIN US AS SOON AS WE POSSIBLY CAN.

UNTIL RENE IS HERE, LET'S START OUR CONVERSATION WITH YOU, PATRICIA.

SO THERE WERE TWO IMPORTANT POLLS RELEASED IN THE LAST DAY ABOUT GEORGIA POLITICS.

ONE WAS YOUR OWN POLL, A POLL OF SOME 860 GEORGIANS AND CONDUCTED BY THE UNIVERSITY OF GEORGIA.

THAT POLL AMONG MANY OTHER THINGS SHOWS THAT BRIAN KEMP HAS A PRETTY SUBSTANTIAL LEAD, I THINK IT'S FAIR TO SAY AGAINST DAVID PURDUE AND SIMULTANEOUSLY A UNIVERSITY PUBLISHED THEIR POLL AND BRIAN KEMP WITH A PRETTY GOOD LEAD OVER DAVID PURDUE.

AS A RESULT OF THAT, THE KEMP CAMPAIGN HAS CALLED ON PURDUE TO DROP OUT.

CODY'S QUOTE, I'M NOT GOING TO GIVE IT TO YOU EXACTLY BUT ESSENTIALLY THE ONLY THING STOPPING GEORGIA FROM REMAINING RED IS DAVID PURDUE.

THE PURDUE PEOPLE FIRE BACK AND SAYING WE HAVEN'T BEGUN THE MEDIA CAMPAIGN.

WE THINK WE'RE DOING PRETTY WELL.

OBVIOUSLY, WE THINK DAVID PURDUE IS THE ONLY ONE THAT CAN BEAT STACEY ABRAMS.

SO WHAT DO YOU WANT TO TELL US ABOUT ALL THAT, PATRICIA?

>> SO GOVERNOR BRIAN KEMP AND PURDUE ARE SAYING THEY ARE THE ONLY ONES TO DEFEAT STACEY ABRAMS IN NOVEMBER.

THEY BELIEVE GEORGIANS BELIEVE BRIAN KEMP IS THE ONE TO BE THE GOVERNOR.

WE HAD HEAD-TO-HEAD MATCHUPS BUT THERE IS A HEADS UP MATCHUP IN NOVEMBER BETWEEN BOTH RACES AND DAVID PURDUE HAS A FOUR POINT LEAD AND HAS LED TO A TON OF SNIPING BETWEEN THE CAMPS.

IT'S TRUE DAVID PURDUE HAS NOT GONE UP AGAINST KEMP BUT BOTH OF THESE GENTLEMEN HAVE UNIVERSAL NAME RECOGNITION AND YOU HAVE TO START TO REALLY THINK ABOUT WHAT THAT ARGUMENT LOOKS LIKE GOING FORWARD.

THERE NEEDS TO BE A UNITED REPUBLICAN PARTY AND THERE NEED TO BE REPUBLICAN VOTERS THAT BELIEVE THAT THE ELECTION WILL BE FAIR AND THEY WILL BE GOING TO THE POLLS.

SO THAT IS A MIXED BAG WHEN WE DIG INTO IT FOR REPUBLICANS.

>> THANK YOU FOR POINTING OUT WHEN I TALK ABOUT KEMP HAVING A LEAD OVER PURDUE IN YOUR POLL, IT'S A BANK SHOT.

IN THE SENSE YOU DID THE HYPOTHETICAL MATCHUP BETWEEN KEMP STRONGER AND THOSE NUMBERS.

JUST STARTING WITH THE POLLING ON THE GUBERNATORIAL RACE, THE NUMBERS ON PURDUE AND KEMP, ONE OF THE THINGS I THOUGHT WAS INTERESTING IS IT'S EARLY AND A DEEP POLL OF POLITICAL ATTITUDES.

GEORGIA WILL BE THE CENTER.

>> IT HAS A SPECIAL PLACE IN MY HEART TEN MILES AWAY FROM THE UNIVERSITY SO I USED TO GET THERE ALL THE TIME IN GRADUATE SCHOOL.

THE FACT THAT YOU HAVE BASICALLY A POLLING OUTFIT DOING PUBLIC DEEP DIVES SUGGESTS THE SIGNIFICANCE STATEWIDE RACES FOR GOVERNOR AND SENATE SO YEAH, IT DOES CONFIRM THAT GEORGIA IS ON THE MAP.

I WOULD CAUTION FOR BOTH OF THESE POLLS, THOUGH, WHILE I COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND WHY GOVERNOR KEMP IS NOW URGING DAVID PURDUE TO DROP OUT OF THE RACE, IT'S THE SPIN MOVE TO MAKE HERE IN THIS SITUATION AND WHAT THE SURVEY SHOWS IS HIS LEAD OVER STACEY ABRAMS IS A STATISTICAL LEAD AND KEMP'S LEAD IS A -- PURDUE'S LEAD IS A TIE BUT THE PROBLEM IS SURVEYS ARE A SNAPSHOT IN TIME AND THEY'RE ONLY AS GOOD AS THE MOMENT IN WHICH THE QUESTION IS ASKED.

SO YES, WHEN THESE SURVEYS WERE TAKEN, KEMP IS AN ADVANTAGE BUT WHAT THE PURDUE CAMP IS SAYING MAKES SENSE THEY HAVE A LOT OF TIME TO CAMPAIGN AND THE TIDES CAN SHIFT AT SOME POINT AND ATTITUDES CAN CHANGE OVER TIME.

BASICALLY THIS IS UGA AND OTHER ORGANIZATIONS WILL BE DOING MUMP MORE POLLING TRACKING THIS OVER TIME AND WE CAN TRACK THE TRENDS TO SEE WHETHER OR NOT THIS IS A FLIP, WHETHER OR NOT THIS IS THE START OF THE CONTEST OR WHETHER OR NOT THERE WILL BE EVENTS OR ACTIONS THE CAMPAIGN TO TAKE TO IMPROVE THEIR FORTUNE.

>> WE HAVE RENE.

THANK YOU.

GLAD YOU'RE WITH US.

I KNOW WE HAD A PROBLEM GETTING THE AUDIO UP AND RUNNING.

NOW THAT YOU'RE HERE, WHAT DID YOU MAKE OF THE POLLING THAT YOU SAW THE AJC OR OTHERS?

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME, LOOK, I THINK THERE IS SO MUCH BAGGAGE WHEN IT COMES TO ALL POLLING.

WE HAVE SEEN HISTORICALLY RECENTLY WHEN ELECTION NIGHT OF HILLARY CLINTON, YOU KNOW, WHERE DID WE ALL THINK THE POLLING WAS POINTING TO.

WE'VE SEEN THAT HAPPEN OVER AND OVER AGAIN SO A LITTLE BIT OF CAUTION THERE.

THAT SAID, DATA IS GREAT AND I AGREE THAT LIKE HAVING THE INSIGHT THAT WE HAVE WHEN WE DO GET THESE POLLS TO POUR OVER IS A POSITIVE.

I DO AGREE THAT LIKE LOOK, THE WORLD IS WATCHING.

WHAT IS HAPPENING IN GEORGIA?

I THINK THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IS GOING TO HAVE A SATURDAY NIGHT FIGHT EVERY DAY GOING TORE WARD AND IT PLAYS -- IT WILL BE BLOODY AND IT WILL BE A REAL, YOU KNOW, REAL STREET FIGHT WITH HOW THAT WILL WORK OUT WHICH IS TRADITIONALLY NOT WHERE REPUBLICANS ARE.

THEY'RE UNITED PARTY RANK AND FILE.

THEY POINT IN ONE DIRECTION AND MARCH TOWARD THAT GOAL SO IT'S RATHER INTERESTING TO SEE HOW IT IS PLAYING OUT.

THE POLL ITSELF WAS A MIXED BAG.

THE ECONOMY WAS THE NUMBER TWO ISSUE FOLLOWED BY COLORADO.

THERE ARE SO MANY THINGS ABOUT THIS POLL I FEEL WE CAN TALK ABOUT BIDEN, KEMP, ALL AT HIGHEST DISAPPROVAL RATING AS WE DISCUSSED BUT I THINK THIS IS INTERESTING STRONGLY FOR ROE V WADE, GUN CONTROL AND BALLOT ACCESS.

SO THAT CONTRADICTS A LOT OF WHERE THE VOTERS ACTUALLY REGISTERED WHO THEY WOULD VOTE FOR.

SO IT'S AN INTERESTING SNAPSHOT.

>> THANK YOU FOR LAYING OUT A FEW OF THE THINGS I WANT TO GET INTO WITH THE POLL.

ONE OF THEM PATRICIA IS A REAL HEADLINE.

I HAVE TO SAY IT WAS A COUPLE WEEKS AGO ON THE SHOW I SUGGESTED THAT MAYBE PRESIDENTIAL APPROVAL RATINGS WE SHOULDN'T BE TALKING ABOUT AS MUCH BUT THE COUNTRY IS SO DIVIDED IT STRIKES ME FOR THE MOST PART IT'S GOING TO BE HARD FOR ANY PRESIDENT TO GET ABOVE 50% LONG IN ANY APPROVAL RATING BUT, BUT, IN THIS CASE, THE FACT THAT BIDEN'S NUMBERS EXCUSE ME ARE IN THE LOW 30s, REALLY DOES STRIKE ME AS SOMETHING THAT MERRICK'S A DISCUSSION.

I WANT TO SAY BECAUSE I GOT A LOT OF PUSH BACK.

BIDEN'S POPULARITY IS THE RESISTANCE HE'S GOTTEN WITH MANY THINGS HE'S TRIED TO PUT IN PLACE AND BY REPUBLICANS AND TRUMP ACCOLADES AND ANTI-VAXXERS AND THE LIKE.

NEVERTHELESS, THE NUMBERS ARE THE NUMBERS, PATRICIA.

>> I REALLY DO AGREE WITH YOU.

IT'S IMPORTANT TO JUST MAKE A DISTINCTION BETWEEN AN APPROVAL RATING AND AN ELECTION HEAD-TO-HEAD.

JOE BIDEN IS NOT RUNNING AGAINST ANYBODY IN THIS POLL.

THIS IS NOT A CHOICE BETWEEN JOE BIDEN AND DONALD TRUMP.

THAT'S A TOTALLY DIFFERENT CONVERSATION.

THIS IS A CHOICE BETWEEN YOU'RE VERY PLEASED WITH HOW JOE BIDEN IS DOING OR DON'T FEEL GOOD ABOUT IT AND IN THOSE NUMBERS, JUST A THIRD OF GEORGIAS APPROVE OF THE JOB THAT JOE BIDEN IS DOING AND THE REASON THAT'S ESPECIALLY IMPORTANT AND MEANINGFUL IS BECAUSE IN MAY, 51% OF GEORGIANS BELIEVED THAT JOE BIDEN WAS ON THE RIGHT TRACK AND APPROVED OF HIS JOB FOUR MONTHS INTO THE JOB SO IT WASN'T JUST RIGHT AFTER HE WAS INAUGURATED.

SO THIS IS A REALLY BIG DROP AND FOLLOWED A NUMBER OF PUBLIC LOSES.

AFGHANISTAN WITHDRAW WAS A VISUAL CATASTROPHE AND I DON'T THINK IT WAS FULLY EXPLAINED OR DEALT WITH FOR ADMINISTRATION.

IF YOU LOOK AT INFLATION HAS REALLY CONTINUED TO BUBBLE UP UNDER THE SURFACE AND NOW IT'S REALLY INFUSING PEOPLE'S EVERYDAY LIVES AND ADMINISTRATION I DON'T THINK HAS DUG INTO THAT.

THE THIRD PIECE OF THIS IS COVID.

THIS IS EVERYBODY'S DAILY LIFE AND AT THIS POINT A DAILY GRIND.

WE'RE STILL STRUGGLING TO GET THROUGH IT AND IN SOME CASES THEY ARE STILL FIGHTING WITH NEIGHBORS.

IT'S INFUSING SCHOOL BOARDS AND BECOME POLITICAL.

IT'S NOT OVER YET AND PEOPLE ARE EXHAUSTED AND JOE BIDEN IS THE PRESIDENT AND WE SEEN THAT CORRELATION IS IT A CAUSATION, MAYBE, MAYBE NOT.

THAT'S UP TO VOTERS BUT THE NUMBERS HERE ARE TROUBLING FOR JOE BIDEN AND TROUBLING FOR DEMOCRATS WHO RELY ON HIM TO GET THAT PARTY IDEA AND GET THE PARTY IN A PLACE THEY WANT TO BE NEXT NOVEMBER TO RUN FOR REELECTION.

>> JUMP IN BUT I'D LIKE YOU TO ALSO ADDRESS THE FACT THAT THE COLLISION SEEMS TO BE REALLY STRUGGLING WITH HIM RIGHT NOW.

AFRICAN AMERICAN DISAPPROVAL HAS RISEN DRAMATICALLY.

INDEPENDENT VOTERS.

THE PEOPLE THAT CAME TOGETHER AND ELECTED HIM IN GEORGIA SEEM TO BE AT LEAST AT THIS MOMENT IN TIME AND AS YOU POINT OUT THAT'S ALL A POLL IS, THEY'RE UNHAPPY WITH JOE BIDEN.

>> YEAH, FOR GIVE ME IF I START TO SAY STUFF THAT SOUNDS TOO JARGON BUT IF I WANT TO CHANNEL MY COLLEAGUE AS THOUGH EVERYBODY KNOWS THAT ALLEN IS ONE OF THE PEOPLE WHO DOES PREDICTIVE MODELS OF ELECTION OUTCOMES AND HAS TWO DIFFERENT TYPES OF MODELS AND THE ONE MOST POPULAR IS THE PRESIDENTIAL MODEL FOR PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION YEARS THAT DOES FACTOR JOB APPROVAL RATING, IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT FOR PEOPLE TO REALIZE WHEN HE'S DOING PREDICTIVE MODELS HOW MANY SEATS ARE GOING TO BE WON OR LOST IN THE HOUSE OR SENATE, THAT ACTUALLY DOESN'T INCLUDE THE PRESIDENT'S APPROVAL RATING.

THAT'S LOOKING AT INCUMBENT PARTY.

SO THE THINGS WE LOOK AT TRYING TO PREDICT WHO IS GOING TO WIN A PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION IS DIFFERENT THAN ONE PARTY IS GOING TO HOLD IN THIS CASE THE NATIONAL LEGISLATIVE CHAMBER.

WHEN WE OVERALL ABOUT THE NATIONAL MOOD AND APPLICATIONS FOR GEORGIA, THE THING THAT YOU WANT TO THINK ABOUT IS THE GENERIC REELECT NUMBER AND ENTHUSIASM AND SO WHAT WE'RE SEEING, THAT'S ACTUALLY TRUE IN THE AJC POLL IS DEMOCRATS AND KEY DEMOCRATIC CONSTITUENTS ARE MORE LIKELY TO REPORT THAT THEY DON'T PLAN ON VOTING IN THE 2022 ELECTION.

THAT'S CONCERNING FROM THE TURNOUT BECAUSE IN A RACE WHERE THERE ARE SORT OF CLOSELY EVEN NUMBERS OR PRETTY CLOSE NUMBERS OF DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS IN THE STATE, IF YOU HAVE DEMOCRATS SAYING I'M ALREADY LIKELY TO SIT THIS OUT, THAT ISN'T THEM GETTING ENOUGH PEOPLE TO THE POLLS TO ACTUALLY BE ABLE TO WIN ELECTIONS.

BUT IN GENERAL, THE EFFECT IS INDIRECT AND SO WE'RE NOT THINKING OF INDIRECT EFFECTS WHEN WE'RE THINKING ABOUT THE MODELS.

SO IF PEOPLE ARE TICKED OFF BECAUSE JOE BIDEN DIDN'T LIVE UP TO THEIR EXPECTATIONS AND THEN THEY MAKE THE DECISION THAT WELL, I'M JUST NOT GOING TO VOTE IN THIS ELECTION, THAT'S WHERE YOU'RE GOING TO SEE THAT DOWN STREAM EFFECT BUT IT'S NOT NECESSARILY DIRECTLY BECAUSE OF THE FACT JOE BIDEN IS UNPOPULAR AT THIS MOMENT.

SO I WOULD NEVER ARGUE THAT'S HELPFUL.

>> OKAY.

THANK YOU FOR ALL OF THAT.

RENE, YOU MENTIONED ONE OF THE THINGS THAT'S INTERESTING IN THIS POLL IS THE WAY THAT GEORGIANS RESPOND TO HOT BUTTON ISSUES AND IT STRIKES ME IS WHY REPUBLICANS ARE RUNNING IN PRIMARY CONTESTS AND HOPE TO GO ON TO BE IN THE GENERAL ELECTION ARE WALKING A VERY, VERY SLIPPERY SLOPE SO BY A VERY WIDE MARGIN AND NUMBERS ARE NOT REALLY GREAT ON THE RADIO SO I'LL JUST TALK MORE IN GENERALITIES BUT IN A VERY WIDE MARGIN, GEORGIANS SAID THEY DO NOT WANT THE SUPREME COURT TO OVERTURN ROE V WADE WHICH THEY VERY WELL MIGHT BE HEADED TOWARDS DOING AND BY A SMALLER MARGIN, BUT STILL I THINK IT'S A MAJORITY, THEY SAID IF THE COURT ALLOWS ROE TO CONTINUE FOR THE TIME BEING, THEY DO NOT WANT GEORGIA'S ABORTION LAWS TO GO INTO EFFECT.

YOUR THOUGHTS ON THAT?

>> THIS IS WHY IT'S A BIT CONFUSING WHEN YOU RATE POLLS LIKE THIS AND HOW TO ANALYZE TO SEE WHAT THE VOTERS ARE FEELING PERSONALLY AND WHAT THEY REGISTER AS BEING SOMETHING THAT IS A KIN TO THEIR HEART AND HOME VERSUS A CANDIDATE AND THE PARTY THAT THAT CANDIDATE REPRESENTS.

AND I THINK ROE V WADE FOR EXAMPLE IS THE PERFECT EXAMPLE OF THAT WHERE VOTERS IN GEORGIA ACCORDING TO THIS POLL WANT ROE V WADE TO HOLD BUT THE CANDIDATES THAT THIS POLL SAYS THEY'RE BACKING DO NOT BACK V WADE SO YOU TAKE THAT WITH A GRAIN OF SALT AND YOU ANALYZE THE NUMBERS ACCORDINGLY.

I THINK THAT WHEN IT COMES TO HOW THIS AFFECTS BIDEN'S NUMBERS AND HIS POPULARITY IN GEORGIA AND ACROSS THE COUNTRY, YOU KNOW, HE'S HAD SOME VERY PUBLIC LEGISLATIVE STUMBLES, RIGHT, WITH VOTING RIGHTS AND STILL DEALING WITH THE OMICRON SURGE.

THE DEATHS ARE STILL SKY HIGH AND SO MANY FOLKS ARE LIKE OKAY, WE'VE MOVED BEYOND OMICRON, IT'S STILL THERE.

RIGHT?

IT'S INTERESTING AND I THINK THIS IS ONE OF THOSE OKAY, IT'S JANUARY.

RIGHT?

WE NEED TO PAUSE AND SEE WHAT THE MARATHON IS GOING TO HOLD FROM NOW THROUGH VOTER DAY IN NOVEMBER IS THAT THE ECONOMY IS ROARING BACK.

GDP GROUP 5.7% WHICH WAS ANNOUNCED YESTERDAY OR THE DAY BEFORE AND THAT'S THE HIGHEST THE ECONOMY HAS ROARED BACK SINCE 1984.

UNEMPLOYMENT IS DOWN TO 3.9%.

THERE ARE A LOT OF GOOD THINGS THAT VOTERS BELIEVE BIDEN IS DOING AND GET THE MESSAGING IS NOT THERE TO COMMUNICATE RESPECTIVELY YET HOW WELL HE'S DOING ON THAT FRONT.

ALSO, I THINK THE SUPREME COURT NOMINEES ARE REALLY GOING TO DO WONDERS IN GALVANIING SUPPORT AND ENTHUSIASM.

IF HE MAKES GOOD ON HIS PROMISE TO PUT A BLACK WOMAN ON THE SUPREME COURT, I CAN -- LET'S TAKE A FEW POLLS AFTER THAT HAPPENS.

>> LET ME BRING YOU BACK TO THE STATE AND WHAT I STARTED WITH WHICH, HOT BUTTON ISSUES WITH REPUBLICANS ARE GREAT IF YOU'RE RUNNING IN A PRIMARY, OUT LAWING ABORTION AS THE LAW SAWS, CONSTITUTIONAL CARRY WAS UNPOPULAR AMONG THE PEOPLE WHO WERE POLLED.

SO THESE ARE ISSUES GREAT FOR REPUBLICANS AND PRIMARIES BUT AGAIN, THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO STRUGGLE WITH THEM WITH THE GENERAL ELECTION PUBLIC THAT SEEMS TO NOT APPROVE OF THOSE VENTURES.

>> YEAH, WITH BOTH CONSTITUTIONAL CARRY, WHICH IS ALSO KNOWN AS PERMITLESS CARRY BY DEMOCRATS THE ACTUAL BILL MOVING THROUGH RIGHT NOW AND REPUBLICANS INTRODUCING A LOT OF REPUBLICAN SUPPORT TO LIFT THE REQUIREMENT TO HAVE A PERMIT TO CARRY A GUN IN GEORGIA AND SENATOR BUTCH MILLER TALKED ABOUT INTRODUCING A TEXAS STILL ABORTION BAN HERE IN GEORGIA AND THESE ARE GO ISSUES IN THIS POLL VERY CLEARLY A LARGE MAJORITY OF VOTERS DO NOT WANT BECAUSE THEY COME IN AT ABOUT 20, 25, 30% DEPENDING HOW YOU PARSE THE NUMBERS.

THAT'S A SMALL MINORITY COMPARED TO THE ENTIRE STATE.

GREAT MESSAGE ISSUES TO TALK ABOUT SO WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT ACTUALLY PUTTING WORDS DOWN ON PAPER AND MOVING LEGISLATION THROUGH AND PUSHING THROUGH VERY REAL SIGNIFICANT CHANGES TO GEORGIA LAW I THINK IT'S RISKIER TO PASS AND HAVE THE GOVERNORS SIGNS THE BILLS.

THEY WOULD BE POPULAR FOR GOVERNOR KEMP IN THE REPUBLICAN PRIMARY WITH DAVID PURDUE.

HE WOULD LOVE TO HAVE THOSE, HOWEVER, GETTING THROUGH TO A GENERAL ELECTION HOW DOES THAT POSITION HIM AND REPUBLICANS STATEWIDE WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THESE VERY UNPOPULAR ISSUES THAT DO NOT PLAY WELL WITH THE FULL STATE OF GEORGIA BUT YOU DO WANT THEM IN SOME CASES TO PASS THAT IN A REPUBLICAN PRIMARY.

THE LAST THING I'LL SAY IS THESE BILLS ARE DRAMATIC CHANGES TO GEORGIA LAW AND SO THEY WOULD HAVE VERY REAL CONSEQUENCES ON PEOPLE'S LIVES SO IT'S MORE THAN JUST AN ACADEMIC DEBATE AT THIS POINT.

IT COULD REALLY CHANGE PEOPLE'S LIVES QUICKLY.

>> OKAY.

PATRICIA MURPHY GETS THE LAST WORD.

LET'S TAKE THE FIRST BREAK OF THE SHOW AND COME BACK AND TALK ABOUT ISSUES IN THE LEGISLATURE RIGHT NOW THAT ARE WORTH OUR ATTENTION.

YOU'RE LISTENING TO "POLITICAL REWIND."

>>> WE'RE BACK ON "POLITICAL REWIND."

THE CEO OF MUNDO HISPANICO DIGITAL AND MURPHY JOINING US FOR OUR CONVERSATION TODAY.

PATRICIA MURPHY, THERE ARE A LOT OF HOT BUTTON ISSUING FLOATING AROUND AND A COUPLE RELATE TO HOW REPUBLICANS, SOME REPUBLICANS, WANT TO MAKE IT EASIER FOR PARENTS TO GET INVOLVED IN HOW CLASSES ARE TAUGHT, HOW SUBJECTS ARE TAUGHT, WHAT SUBJECTS ARE TAUGHT IN THEIR CHILDREN'S SCHOOLS AND SO LET'S LOOK AT A COUPLE OF THOSE FAIRLY BRIEFLY.

ONE OF THEM IS A MEASURE THAT IS STARTED -- WELL, BOTH OF THE MEASURES I'LL TALK ABOUT STARTED IN THE SENATE.

ONE OF THEM IS A MEASURE THAT WOULD NOW BAR THE TEACHING OF SO-CALLED DIVISIVE MATERIALS AND OF COURSE, THE REFERENCE REALLY IS TO CRITICAL RACE THEORY AND IT WOULD IN FACT, I THINK, IT WOULD IMPOSE A FINANCIAL PENALTY ON SCHOOLS THAT TAUGHT THOSE MATERIALS.

HAVE I GOT THAT ONE RIGHT OR IS THAT THE ONE THAT RELATES TO THE BOOK BANS?

>> YOU'VE GOT THAT RIGHT.

>> OKAY.

SO WHAT IS GOING ON WITH THIS WHOLE NOTION OF CRITICAL RACE THEORY?

WE'VE TALKED ABOUT IT ON THIS SHOW ON MANY OCCASIONS.

IT ISN'T TAUGHT IN SCHOOLS HERE AND EVEN DAVID ROLSTON, THE SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE ON OUR SHOW SAID IT LOOKS LIKE A BILL IN SEARCH OF AN ISSUE.

>> YES, WELL, AND WE COME IMMEDIATELY TO THE PROBLEM THAT CRITICAL RACE THEORY IS SORT OF WHAT YOU WANT IT TO BE BECAUSE THERE IS A COLLEGE LEVEL SORT OF ACADEMIC FRAME WORK AS COLLEGE LEVEL PROFESSORS WILL EXPLAIN IT THAT IS CALLED CRITICAL RACE THEORY BUT YOU GET DOWN INTO THE DEBATE HAPPENING IN THE GEORGIA STATE HOUSE AND GEORGIA STATE SENATE, THE CONVERSATION IS WHILE IT ISN'T ACTUALLY CURRICULUM, IS IT A LENS THROUGH WHICH YOU ARE FRAMING CERTAIN ISSUES AND HISTORICAL REFERENCES?

EVEN JUST DEFINING CRITICAL RACE THEORY IS VERY, VERY DIFFICULT FOR LAWMAKERS RIGHT NOW.

THERE IS AN ATTEMPT TO DO IT BUT RUNNING INTO PROBLEMS.

ONCE YOU DEFINE CRITICAL RACE THEORY, YOU HAVE TO DECIDE WHO WILL ENFORCE CRITICAL RACE THEORY BEING TAUGHT OR NOT TAUGHT AND RECORD IT?

IS IT GOING TO BE STUDENTS?

IS IT FELLOW TEACHERS?

IS IT PARENTS?

I THINK IT IS AN INCREDIBLY STICKY QUESTION AND THAT'S WHY LEGISLATORS TYPICALLY DO NOT GET INTO THE CURRICULUM LEVEL OF WHEN THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT LAWS PERTAINING TO EDUCATION.

THERE HAS LONG BEEN SORT OF A STANDING AGREEMENT LAWMAKERS WOULD STAY OUT OF THE ISSUES AND GOVERNOR KEMP DECIDED TO VETO A BILL BECAUSE IT INSTRUCTED SCHOOLS TO EXTEND RECESS BY 15 MINUTES, WHICH HE SAID WAS TOTALLY NOT TO THE IDEA SCHOOL BOARDS SHOULD HAVE THE CONTROL OVER THE DECISIONS GOING ON INSIDE THE SCHOOLS.

OVERALL, THIS OBVIOUSLY IS A BYPRODUCT OF THE VERY PAINFUL DISCUSSIONS WE'RE HAVING RIGHT NOW ABOUT RACE AND SOCIAL JUSTICE BUT THERE IS A POLITICAL WIN IN VIRGINIA LAST YEAR WITH GOVERNOR GLENN YOUNGKIN AND EDUCATION QUITE BY SURPRISE FOR PEOPLE IN POLITICS, THEY DIDN'T EXPECT EDUCATION TO POP UP OUT OF THE MAIN ISSUE IN THE RACE, ESPECIALLY PARENTS INVOLVEMENT AND DISCRETION.

BECAUSE OF THAT VIRGINIA WIN THAT WAS UNEXPECTED AND THE ISSUE REPUBLICANS AROUND THE COUNTRY INCLUDING GEORGIA ARE USING THIS RIGHT NOW AS GENERAL ASSEMBIES COME INTO RECOGNITION, PARENTS ARE SAYING IS THIS SOMETHING I NEED TO THINK ABOUT?

>> AND WHAT IS WORTH UNPACKING IS BAN CRITICAL RACE THEORY, BAN ON SCENE BOOKS, THOSE ARE GREAT BUMPER STICKS IF YOU'RE A GREAT REPUBLICAN.

WHEN YOU TRY TO ADD THE DETAILS, WHAT IS -- HOW ARE YOU GOING TO DEFINE WHAT IS OBSCENE IN THE LEGISLATION THAT YOU WRITE?

HOW ARE YOU GOING TO DEFINE POTTER STEWART, THE SUPREME COURT JUSTICE POTTER STEWART IN A FAMOUS CASE ON PORNOGRAPHY SAID I KNOW IT WHEN I SEE IT.

HE COULDN'T GET ANY CLOSER TO A DEFINITION THAN THAT SO WHETHER IT'S TALKING ABOUT BANNING BOOKS THAT ARE SOMEHOW OBSCENE OR BANNING THE TEACHING OF SUBJECTS THAT MAKE PEOPLE UNCOMFORTABLE OR DIVISIVE, GETTING DOWN INTO WHAT THE LANGUAGE OF THOSE BILLS ARE IS REALLY GOING TO BE SOMETHING TO WATCH.

>> LOOK, THE DETAILS ARE SKETCHING TO SAY THE LEAST WHEN IT COMES TO DEBATE WHAT CRT IS, THE ARTICLE THAT YOU POINT OUT, THE BUZZ WORDS, YOU KNOW, DEVICE TOPICS, PRIVILEGE, OPPRESSION, THEY'RE NOT TRYING TO HIDE THE FACT THAT PEOPLE BEING PROTECTED FROM WHITE ARE WHO.

WHITE, MALE, HETROSEXUAL AND WHAT ABOUT EVERYBODY ELSE?

THIS DEBATE IS FORCING US TO THINK ABOUT.

ONE THING THAT ISN'T MENTIONED IS THE STUDENTS THEMSELVES ARE NOT MAKING THESE COMPLAINTS OR BE AN OFFENDED OR HARMED BY WHAT THEY'RE TAUGHT.

IT'S THE PARENTS.

IT'S POLITICAL AND RACIAL.

ACCORDING TO THE AMERICAN LEVER ASSOCIATION, THE ALA, PARENTS AND PATRONS INITIATE OVER 50% OF ALL CHALLENGES IN THE UNITED STATES.

1% OF THOSE ACTUALLY COME FROM COMPLAINTS ORIGINATING WITH STUDENTS.

THIS IS A LOT OF BLUSTER.

THE DETAILS ARE NOT FORMS.

WE SEE THE RHETORIC B BEING EFFECTIVE AS IN VIRGINIA.

CRT IS NOT TAUGHT IN OUR SCHOOLS.

IT'S ACADEMIC AND A SLIPPERY SLOPE.

FIRST CRT THE DIVISIVE CONCEPT AND ANYTHING UNSPECIFIED AS BEING DISCOMFORT IN SCHOOLS AND WHERE DOES THAT TAKE US AS A SOCIETY?

THESE ARE THE BIG QUESTIONS THAT WE'RE HAVING TO CONFRONT WITH SCHOOL AND HOW SCHOOL AND EDUCATION AND SCHOOL BOARD ARE BEING WEAPONIZED IN LOCAL ELECTIONS.

>> ANDRE, JUMP IN.

>> I HAVE SO MANY THOUGHTS, 100% SURE WHERE TO JUMP IN WITH THIS.

WITHOUT THE IDEA OF PEOPLE FEELING GUILT OR SHAME OR PEOPLE FEELING DISCOMFORT, THIS IS WHAT KEEPS DEMOCRACY ON OUR TOES AND MAKES US DO BETTER.

SOMETIMES PEOPLE WANT TO FEEL BAD BECAUSE OF STUFF OTHER PEOPLE DID IN THE NAME THEY BENEFITTED FROM 150 YEARS AGO IS OUR NAME AS A SOCIETY.

WE MARGINALIZE FOLKS LIKE ME AS BEING SORT OF GOAL TO DO BETTER AND DISCOMFORT IS PART OF THE LEARNING PROCESS AND PART OF SOCIETY SORT OF MAKING ITSELF BETTER AND MAKING SURE WE ARE LIVING UP TO OUR CREED.

AS FAR AS CRT IS CONCERNED IN SCHOOLS, PATRICIA MENTIONED IT AND I SAID IT IF MANY TIMES, I'M NOT TEACHING YOUR 7-YEAR-OLD BECAUSE YOUR 7-YEAR-OLD DOESN'T UNDERSTAND THAT.

I WANT KIDS TO LEARN THAT SLAVERY WAS THE CAUSE OF THE CIVIL WAR IN GEORGIA.

THAT'S A HISTORICAL FACT BUT SOME WOULD ARGUE THAT'S CRITICAL RACE THEORY AND GETS TO THE UNDERLYING PART OF THE PROBLEM.

THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT DON'T WANT TO FACE THE FACT THAT BAD THINGS HAPPEN IN THIS COUNTRY THAT CERTAIN PEOPLE DISPROPORTIONATELY BOAR THE FRONT OF IT AND CONTINUE THE CRT IS ABOUT IN TALKING ABOUT IDEAS IN RACISM THAT GO ALONG RACIAL LINES AND PARTISAN LINES BUT GOT TO HAVE DISCUSSIONS AND IN PARTICULAR, IF WE'RE SHIELDING OLDER CHILDREN FROM THINGS THEY'RE OLD ENOUGH TO BE ABLE TO GRAB, WE'RE DOING OURSELVES A DISSERVICE.

YOU'RE MAKING MY JOB HARDER AT THE LEVEL I HAVE TO GO BACK AND MAKE SURE PEOPLE KNOW OR WE'RE ON THE SAME FACT PAGE ABOUT CERTAIN IDEAS AND THEN IT'S PART OF CRITICAL THINKING FOR US TO BE ABLE TO WRESTLE WITH THESE IDEAS AND FIGURE OUTWEIGHS TO MOVE FORWARD AS A SOCIETY.

THE IDEA THIS REALLY ISN'T ABOUT WHAT WE'RE TEACHING IN CURRICULUM.

THIS IS BEING BROUGHT UP TO PEOPLE CAN MONITOR WHAT IS BEING TAUGHT IN GEORGIA IS PROBLEMATIC.

THESE ARE ADULTS WE'RE DEALING WITH.

ADULTS CAN DEAL WITH DISCORD AND INFORMATION AND ARGUE AND SORT OF FIGURE OUT THE WAYS TO THINK ABOUT FACTS AS THEY GATHER THINGS IN WAYS THAT ARE SIMATIC AND THE IDEA YOU WANT TO SHIEFL -- STIFLE THAT INFORMATION FOR ADULTS SUGGESTS THIS ISN'T AN AGREE TO DISAGREE MOMENT BUT THIS IS SOME TYPE OF WHITEWASHING THAT AS PEOPLE HAVE TALKED ABOUT, AUTHORITARIAN AND SMACK THE FEARS IN PEOPLE THAT WON'T BE HELPFUL TO SOCIETY GOING FORWARD.

>> PATRICIA, LET ME THROW OUT AN EXAMPLE OF SOME OF THE CONCERNS THAT MANY PEOPLE HAVE ABOUT WHEN YOU START LOOKING AT HOW PARENTS FOR INSTANCE CAN PUT PRESSURE AND INTERFERE WITH WHAT IS TAUGHT IN A SCHOOL.

YOU'LL ALREADY KNOW THIS STORY BECAUSE IT MADE HEADLINES YESTERDAY.

A SCHOOL BOARD IN TENNESSEE VOTED TO REMOVE THE BOOK "MOUSE" A CELEBRATED GRAPHIC NOVEL ABOUT THE HOLOCAUST.

I THINK IT WON THE POITZER PRIZE.

THEY REMOVED IT FROM THE LIBRARIES CURRICULUM BECAUSE OF ROUGH, OBJECTIONABLE LANGUAGE IN THE BOOK AND DISTURBING IMAGERY ABOUT THE HOLOCAUST AND BY THE WAY, HE PORTRAYS THE JEWS WHO ARE THE VICTIMS OF HOLOCAUST AS MICE.

AND DOES THAT VERY SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE IT'S A STEP AWAY FROM HUMANS AND GIVES US A DIFFERENT WAY TO LOOK AT THIS AND THIS IS THE SORT OF THING THAT I THINK PEOPLE FEAR COULD START HAPPENING IN GEORGIA THE WE GO FORWARD WITH A LAW THAT BANS BOOKS IN THIS WAY.

>> WELL, OF COURSE THE REASON IT'S SO IMPORTANT TO FULLY KNOW ABOUT HISTORY AND UNDERSTAND HISTORY IS SO WE DON'T REPEAT IT.

IT'S VERY OBVIOUS.

THERE IS STILL OF COURSE RESISTANCE IN GEORGIA TO FULLY DISCUSS EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED DURING SLAVERY.

THERE IS RESISTANCE TO TALK ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED TO THE CREEK INDIANS BY THE WAY.

DRIVEN OFF THE LAND AT GUNPOINT AND SENT TO ALABAMA ON FOOT TO OKLAHOMA, RAPE, MURDERS, WAR CRIME ATROCITIES FOR YEARS.

IT IS INCREDIBLY GRAPHIC TO KNOW ABOUT BUT IT WAS HARD TO GO THROUGH, I PROMISE YOU THAT.

IT WAS OUR RESPONSIBILITY TO EX PLAP THESE THINGS TO OUR CHILDREN WHEN WE'RE READY TO HEAR IT SO WE AS A SOCIETY DON'T GO BACKWARDS INSTEAD OF FORWARDS.

TO HAVE THIS REALLY SUPER IMPORTANT CONVERSATIONS SWIRLED UP INTO A POLITICAL CYCLE TO ME IS FRUSTRATING TO WATCH, TO SEE PEOPLE WITH PRIMARIES IS A LOT.

IS THE TAME TIME PARENTS HAVE A RIGHT TO KNOW WHAT IS HAPPENING IN THEIR CHILDREN'S SCHOOLS AND THERE SHOULD BE TRANSPARENCY AND A TWO-WAY DIALOGUE ABOUT WHY THAT'S FAIR BUT WHO DECIDES THAT IS WHAT ELECTED OFFICIALS ARE FOR AT THE SCHOOL BOARD LEVEL BUT THEN JUST TO GO A LITTLE FURTHER DOWN THIS RABBIT HOLE, IT'S A PROBLEM AT THE GEORGIA GENERAL ASSEMBLY IS GOING TO REALLY FEEL LIKE IT'S GOING TO CONTINUE AND REALLY CONTINUE TO BOIL AT SOME POINT.

>> LET'S GET THE FINAL BREAK OF THE SHOW OUT OF THE WAY.

I STILL HAVE A LOT I WANT TO TALK WITH THE PANEL ABOUT AND WE'LL DO THAT AFTER THESE MESSAGES.

>>> WELCOME BACK TO "POLITICAL REWIND."

PATRICIA, YOU TOOK A LOOK AT THE U.S. SENATE RACE, THE GOP PRIMARY WHERE HERSCHEL WALKER CAPTIVATED SO MUCH OF THE BASE APPARENTLY AND TALKED ABOUT THE FACT THAT SADLER, GARY BLACK, KELVIN KING HAVE DISTINGUISHED RECORDS OF ONE SORT OR ANOTHER AND YET, CANNOT SEEM TO GET ANY TRACTION AGAINST HERSHALL WALKER.

TALK ABOUT WHAT THE CANDIDATES SAID ABOUT THE FRUSTRATIONS THEY EXPERIENCED.

>> SO THESE ARE THREE CANDIDATES NOT NAMED HERSHALL WALKER ALL THREE IN A NORMAL ELECTION YEAR YOU WOULD THINK WOULD HAVE ATTRIBUTES AND BACKGROUNDS THAT GOP VOTERS WOULD BE THRILLED WITH.

AND STARTED A BUSINESS VERY SUCCESSFUL AND GARY BLACK IS A POPULAR OFFICIAL BUT THEY JUST CANNOT CATCH A BREAK IN THIS TOWN IT FEELS LIKE SO THEY SAID WHEN THEY ARE GOING AROUND THE STATE, THEY GOT TO GET ANY.

[ INAUDIBLE ] -- AUDIENCE THEY CAN IF THEY'VE BEEN TO AN EVENT WITH WALKER AND HAD TO KNOW ABOUT IT TO FIND IT AND TRYING TO MAKE THEMSELVES AVAILABLE BUT HE LED THIS SINCE BEFORE HE GOT INTO IT.

HE'S BEEN ABLE TO RAISE $5 MILLION IN THE LAST QUARTER ALONE SO HE'S JUST A GOLIATH IN THE RACE.

THESE GUYS ARE TRYING TO BE THE OTHER ONES WHO POSSIBLY GET INTO A RUN OFF AGAINST WALKER AND MAKE IT A CASE BETWEEN THEMSELVES WHO ARE THEY SAY QUALIFIED TO HAVE A BACKGROUND READY FOR THE JOB AND ALL SAY THEY DON'T BELIEVE WALKER IS ANY OF THOSE THINGS.

LET ALONE A RECENT RETURN TO GEORGIA AND SO THEY'RE TRYING TO GET IN THERE TO MAKE IT A ONE ON ONE AGAINST WALKER BUT IT'S A HUGE STRUGGLE AND HAS A LOT TO DO SIMPLY WITH HIS CELEBRITY CAREER.

>> YOU KNOW, CONVENTIONAL WISDOM ABOUT PRIMARY CAMPAIGNS AND ABOUT THE VALUE OF A CANDIDATE GOING THROUGH A PRIMARY CAMPAIGN HAS LONG BEEN IT'S GOOD FOR A CANDIDATE TO GET A STRONG CHALLENGE, THAT IN BEING CHALLENGED, THE CANDIDATE WILL BE ASKED QUESTIONS ABOUT BACKGROUND, ABOUT CERTAIN ISSUES THAT MIGHT BE CONSIDERED CONTROVERSIAL AND ALL OF THOSE WILL GET VETTED IN A PRIMARY SO BY THE TIME YOU GET TO THE GENERAL ELECTION, YOUR OPPONENT DOESN'T HAVE THE AMMUNITION TO USE AGAINST YOU.

I DON'T KNOW THAT HAS ANY BEARING ON WHAT IS HAPPENING WITH, HERASHLL WALKER AND IF HE WINS THE NOMINATION, ALTHOUGH THERE CERTAINLY IS A LOT OF AMMUNITION THAT CAN BE USED AGAINST HIM BUT RIGHT NOW THOSE OTHER CANDIDATES AREN'T MAKING ANY END RO ROADS IN GETTING THAT SORT OF THING VETTED.

>> UNFORTUNATELY, THAT'S HOW THE COOKIE CRUMBLES SOMETIMES.

IT'S UP TO GARY BLACK BUT THIS IS WHERE THEY ARE.

THEY HAVE TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO MANEUVER AND IT'S NOT FAIR BUT LIFE ISN'T FAIR.

YOU KNOW, IN SOMEWAYS, PEOPLE BRING LOTS OF DIFFERENT ATTRIBUTES AND FORCES THERE AND AND WHAT ACTUALLY BROUGHT HIM TO THE FOREFRONT IS ESPECIALLY POIGNANT NOW WHERE IT REIGNS SUPREME.

IT'S BEEN WEAK FOR A COUPLE AGAIN RAKES OVERALL NATIONALLY WHERE THERE IS FILTERING THAT WOULDN'T HAVE LET WALKER KIND OF IN BUT WHEN YOU DO HAVE A POLITICS PERSONALITY, SOMEBODY WHO IS BELIEVED LIKE WALKER COUPLE STRETCH OVER STEPS AND MAKE HIMSELF INTO A RACE.

GARY BLACK WOULD BE THE FRONT RUNNER BECAUSE HE HAS THE MOST EXPERIENCE AND I'D ARGUE KING AND SADLER WERE KIND OF ALWAYS A LITTLE OVER THEIRS AND SHOULD HAVE STARTED RUNNING FOR SOMETHING SMALLER AND BUILDING CREDIBILITY IN THAT WAY BUT THAT'S THE TRADITIONAL WAY OF DOING IT.

A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE STILL LOOKING AT THE DONALD TRUMP PLAYBOOK SAW HOW IT WAS SUCCESSFUL BECAUSE OF HIS MEGA WATT CELEBRITY AND SORT OF READING THE SAME THING INTO THIS WALKER RACE AND IT'S BEEN DIFFICULT FOR FOLKS TO MAKE IT THROUGH.

I TOTALLY UNDERSTAND THE SMART EARNEST KID TO RUN FOR STUDENT COUNSEL PRESIDENT AND THEN WOULD LOSE, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE SOME MORE POPULAR KID WOULD RUN OR ONE YEAR IT WAS THE GUYS WHO RAN AGAINST ME MADE SOME CRAP LIKE DURING THE ASSEMBLY AND I COULDN'T MATCH THEM WITH THE WHIT AND SO IT DIDN'T MATTER AND SO THAT IS THE SAME THING THAT IS HAPPENING HERE.

>> REN -- >> YOU WENT TO YALE AND SHOWED EVERYBODY, RIGHT?

[ LAUGHTER ] >> I DID WELL.

WILL HAVE LAUGH.

>> IT WOULD BE NICE, YOU KNOW, IT WOULD BE NICE RIGHT TO BELIEVE THAT THE WORK INVOLVED WITH CONNECTING WITH VOTERS STILL MEANS SOMETHING.

IT CAME IN BLACK AND SADLER CAN REACH THE VOTERS AND HAY LIGHT IS PRETTY OBVIOUS CONTROVERSIAL ISSUES IS TRUMP BAGGAGE AND OUT OF TOUCH WEALTH, ET CETERA, MAYBE ONE COULD PUSH THE BOUNDARY TO SOME SORT OF SURPRISE WIN OR OPEN THE DOOR AND NOT SO THAT WARNOCK CAN DO WHAT WARNOCK DOES BEST, WHICH IS INTELLIGENTLY ARTICULATE THE ISSUES FOR AND CONNECT WITH REAL VOTERS.

YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU TAKE A LOOK AT THE PERSONALITY REALLY POINTED OUT SO EXPERTLY WITH WALKER AND HIS SON FOR THAT MATTER, YOU KNOW, THEY'VE BEEN REALLY EXHIBITING SOME ODD SOCIAL IMMEDIATE YAO BEHAVIOR.

YOU KNOW, IN DECEMBER IT WAS WIDELY REPORTED THAT WALKER WENT ON THIS CRAZY RANT WITH ABOUT BUILD BACK BETTER AND ANOTHER RED FLAG OF OKAY, IF HE REALLY EQUIPPED TO GO ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL AND TALK ABOUT THESE ISSUES AND HIS SON, I BRING HIS SON INTO THIS BECAUSE I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT TO SEE HOW THE TWO GENERATIONS ARE EFFECTIVELY MAPPING OUT THEIR MESSAGING, HE WAS SLAMMED FOR COMPLAINING ABOUT GAS PRICES FOR EXAMPLE AND HE WAS WEARING A $1300 HOODIE WHILE HE DID SO AND THOSE KIND OF EXAMPLES WHEN WE GET CLOSER TO THE ELECTION ARE GOING TO BE HIGHLIGHTED IN A BIG WAY AND IT WILL BE UP TO THE VOTERS TO REALLY LOOK AT OKAY, ARE THOSE THE INDIVIDUALS OBVIOUSLY PARTICULARLY WALKER TO BEST REPRESENT REAL GEORGIANS?

THE JURY WILL BE OUT UNTIL THEN.

>> ALL RIGHT.

OBVIOUSLY, THE SENATE RACE WILL BE MUCH ON OUR AGENDA IN THE WEEKS AND MONTHS AHEAD.

THE PRIMARIES ARE GETTING FAIRLY CLOSE.

WE'RE TALKING ABOUT MAY AND THINGS WILL START MOVING AT A MORE ACCELERATED PACE IN THE WEEKS AHEAD.

PATRICIA STEPHEN BREYER STEPS DOWN, HIS CAREER WAS PRETTY REMARKABLE BECAUSE AS LINDA GREEN HOUSE POINTS OUT IN A WONDERFUL ESSAY ON BREYER SHE WROTE, HE BELIEVED IN THE POWER OF FACTS, EVIDENCE AND EXPERTISE.

HE BELIEVED THAT THE CONSTITUTION WAS A DOCUMENT THAT COULD HELP MAKE THE COUNTRY BETTER, GREATER IN MANY WAYS.

HE WAS NOT AN ORIGINALEST.

HE THOUGHT THAT FACTS COULD DETERMINE WHAT NEEDED TO HAPPEN AND AS RECENTLY AS THE SUM PREEL COURT CASE ON THE BIDEN CORPORATE MANDATE FOR VACCINES, HE WAS ONE OF THE PEOPLE WHO DESCENTED FROM THE COURTS DECISION THAT IT WAS UNCONSTITUTIONAL AND BASICALLY SAID ARE YOU TELLING US THAT PEOPLE WHO ARE MEMBERS OF THE SUPREME COURT KNOW MORE ABOUT PUBLIC HEALTH THAN OSHA, AN ORGANIZATION THAT WORKS WITH PUBLIC HEALTH TO DETERMINE THE BEST WAYS TO PROTECT PEOPLE IN SOCIETY?

SO IT IS A BIG LOSS BUT OF COURSE, THE BIGGER ISSUE IS WHAT HAPPENS NEXT WITH A REPLACEMENT?

>> YEAH, I THINK ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT FEATURES OF JUSTICE BRIAR'S TIME ON THE COURT WILL TRY TO KEEP IT OUT OF POLITICAL CONVERSATIONS AND TRY TO MAKE THE CASE THAT THEY ARE NOT EVEN A POLITICAL APPOINTEE, NOT POLITICAL ACTORS AND HE FELT THAT IT WAS SUPER IMPORTANT FOR PEOPLE NOT TO SEE THEM AS POLITICAL ACTORS OR THEY WOULDN'T TRUST DECISIONS TO BE A LOT POLITICAL AND GUIDED BY THE LAW AND CONSTITUTION.

I THINK THAT'S A VOICE WE'LL MISS BECAUSE THAT'S A VOICE THAT'S NECESSARY RIGHT NOW.

HE'S NOT THE ONLY MEMBER OF THE COURT THAT FEELS THAT WAY BUT HIS ADVOCACY FOR THE COURT ITSELF IS REALLY IMPORTANT IN HIS CAREER.

HOWEVER TURN THE PAGE QUICKLY AND THIS SAY HUGE POLITICAL DYNAMIC.

THERE IS A FIGHT WHOMEVER JOE BIDEN PUTS FORWARD.

IT IS A CHANCE FOR JOE BIDEN AND IT GOES SMOOTHLY AND YOU HAVE TO SAY IF, IF IT GOES SMOOTHLY IT WOULD BE A REAL CHANCE FOR JOE WITH PROGRESSIVES AND INTENDS TO APPOINT A BLACK WOMAN TO THE POST.

THAT'S IMPORTANT TO JIM CLYBURN WITH JIM CLYBURN SAYING HE WAS ENDORSING JOE BIDEN AHEAD OF THAT SOUTH CAROLINA PRIMARY.

IT'S AN IMPORTANT POLITICAL MOMENT AND IT'S SPURRED BY SOMEONE WHO REALLY WANTED TO STAY OUT OF POLITICS DURING HIS CAREER.

>> THE FACT THE PRESIDENT IN FACT SAID I TOLD YOU DURING THE CAMPAIGN I WOULD NOMINATE AN AFRICAN AMERICAN WOMAN.

I WILL DO THAT.

AN IMPORTANT MOMENT IN WHAT THE COURT COULD BECOME.

>> I THINK IT'S AN IMPORTANT MOMENT IN THE PRESIDENT BIDEN IS KEEPING A CAMPAIGN PROMISE AND A CAMPAIGN PROMISE EVEN THOUGH IT SEEMS SYMBOLIC AND NOT AT THE TOP OF VOTERS, MINDS WHEN THEY WERE SUPPORTING HIM, IT WOULD HAVE BEEN SOMETHING I THINK WOULD HAVE BEEN HELD AGAINST HIM AND COULD HAVE FURTHER DEPRESSED POTENTIAL TURNOUT AMONGST AFRICAN AMERICAN VOTERS.

I THINK THE DEBATE COMING WITH JOE BIDEN STICKING TO HIS GUNS AND THE DEBATE ABOUT AFFIRMATIVE ACTION ALIGNING THE CREDENTIALS OF IMMINENT BLACK FEMALES IS IMPORTANT AND IT IFS INTO THE DISCUSSION OF CRITICAL RACE THEORY AND HOW UNCOMFORTABLE WE ARE ACKNOWLEDGING RACIAL REDRESS.

THIS IS A SUPREME COURT THAT HAS BEEN OVERWHELMINGLY WHITE AND MALE FOR ITS ENTIRE HISTORY.

THE FACT YOU CAN COUNT ON YOUR HAND THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT WHITE MEN WHO HAVE BEEN SUPREME COURT JUSTICES, THE IDEA YOU ADD ONE BLACK WOMAN TO MAKE HER THE THIRD BLACK SUPREME COURT JUSTICE EVER WILL PUT PEOPLE IN ARMS TO TALK ABOUT AFFIRMATIVE ACTION FOR PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN FEDERAL JUDGES AND APPELLATE COURT JUDGES EDUCATED AT THE FINEST SCHOOLS AND COUNTRIES SAYING THESE PEOPLE AREN'T QUALIFIED AND WE WON'T BE INTENTIONBLE ABOUT MAKING SURE WE HAVE THAT VOICE AND PERSPECTIVE ON THE COURT AND ALSO, THESE WOMEN CANNOT LEAD THEIR BLACKNESS AND FEMALENESS AT THE DOOR WHEN THEY'RE MAKING THE DECISIONS OBJECTIVELY I THINK IS A REALLY, REALLY IMPORTANT CONVERSATION THAT WE HAD AND IT'S ACTUALLY SOMEWHAT DISTURBING TO HEAR HOW THIS HAS BEEN USED FROM THEM PULLING UP EVERY BLACK WOMAN AND I KNOW IT'S ONLY 39 FEDERAL JUDGES THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TO BE LIKE THEY'RE ALL BEING CONSIDERED, RIGHT, WHEN THAT'S PROBABLY NOT THE CASE, AS WELL TO PEOPLE ACTUALLY CASTING ASPIRATIONS ON THEIR RECORD.

THERE IS SO MUCH THERE AND SO MUCH THAT AGAIN REFLECTS THE DEEP PROBLEMS THAT WE HAVE.

>> SO RENE, WE DON'T WANT TO LEAVE THIS DISCUSSION WITHOUT POINTING OUT STACEY ABRAMS SISTER LESLIE DOWN IN THE MIDDLE DISTRICT OF GEORGIA, HER NAME IS MENTIONED.

THERE ARE PROBABLY A FEW JUDGES BASED ON WHAT I'M READING WHO MAY BE ABOVE HER IN THE RANKINGS BUT THE FACT SHE'S EVEN IN THE MIX IS FASCINATING ESPECIALLY AS ABRAMS GETS HER CAMPAIGN UNDERWAY.

>> NO, ABSOLUTELY TRUE.

I THINK THAT THIS IS GOING TO PLAY OUT IN SO MANY DIFFERENT WAYS.

WE'LL SEE A GALVANIZED DEMOCRATIC BASE REALLY TAKE A LOOK AT WHAT IS HAPPENING, HOW THE NOMINATION PROCESS TAKES PLACE AND WHAT THE RIGHT IS GOING TO DO, SAY AND POSSIBLY ATTEMPT TO BLOCK ABOUT ANY POTENTIAL NOMINEE AND HOW THAT IS GOING TO AFFECT VOTERS OF COLOR PRIMARILY.

AND A LIBERAL BASE THAT WANTS TO SEE A BETTER REFLECTION OF THE SUPREME COURT THAT LOOKS LIKE AMERICA.

THAT'S ON THE ONE HAND.

>> I'M SORRY, WE'RE RUNNING OUT OF TIME AND I WANT TO ASK ONE MORE QUESTION.

WE TALK AND DON'T KNOW HOW THIS FIGHT IS GOING TO END UP BUT THERE ARE REASONS TO THINK THAT IT'S NOT GOING TO BE REPUBLICANS ADVANCE TAKE TO FIGHT TO HARD UNLESS BIDEN PICKS A REALLY EXTREME AFRICAN AMERICAN CANDIDATE FOR THE JOB.

>> WELL, THE FACT IT'S THE FIRST YEAR OF JOE BIDEN'S PRESIDENCY OR JUST INTO THE SECOND YEAR I THINK ARGUES FOR THE FACT THAT REPUBLICANS ARE CERTAIN TO VET.

THERE WILL BE A LOT OF OUTSIDE GROUPS THAT WILL DO MORE THAN VET HER, WILL PROBABLY MALIGN HER AND REACH OUT TO SENATORS AND YOU HAVE TO PUT RAFAEL AT THE TOP OF THE LIST.

SENATORS IN SWING STATES UNDER PRESSURE AND ELECTIONS COMING UP IN NOVEMBER, THERE WILL BE A POLITICAL FIGHT ABOUT IT BUT I DON'T THINK IT WILL BE A MAJOR EFFORT.

>> PATRICIA MURPHY GETS THE LAST WORD ON TODAY'S "POLITICAL REWIND."

WE'RE COMPLETELY OUT OF TIME.

SORRY I HAD TO CUT EVERYBODY SHORT.

THANK YOU FOR A TERRIFIC CONVERSATION.

THANK YOU-ALL FOR BEING WITH US FOR ANOTHER EDITION OF "POLITICAL REWIND."

STAY WARM THIS WEEKEND AND YES, ALSO STAY HEALTHY.

WEAR A MASK AND IF YOU HAVEN'T GOT A BOOSTER SHOT, PLEASE GO GET IT.

TAKE CARE.

WE'LL SEE YOU-ALL NEXT WEEK.