♪♪ >>> WELCOME TO ANOTHER EDITION OF "POLITICAL REWIND."

I'M BILL NIGUT.

AND, AS ALWAYS, VERY HAPPY TO HAVE YOU WITH US FOR OUR SHOW TODAY.

IF YOU'RE LISTENING IN REALTIME, IT'S FRIDAY, AND BEEN ANOTHER BUSY WEEK IN GEORGIA POLITICS.

AND IN OTHER NEWS THAT WE'LL TALK ABOUT ON THE SHOW TODAY AS WELL.

SO, AS WE START OUR REVIEW OF THE WEEK'S NEWS, PATRICIA MURPHY, AJC POLITICAL REPORTER AND THE AUTHOR OF THE POLITICAL INSIDER COLUMN IS WITH US.

AJC'S REALLY, I THINK -- YOU ABOUT, PATRICIA, IN THE MONTHS THAT YOU'VE BEEN WITH THE PAPER JUST A REALLY IMPORTANT PART, A HIGH-PROFILE PART OF THE AJC'S POLITICAL COVERAGE.

AND YOUR COLUMN JUST SEEMS TO GET BETTER AND ERR EVERY TIME IT'S PUBLISHED ON WEDNESDAYS AND SUNDAYS IN THE NEWSPAPER.

HOW ARE YOU?

>> I'M DOING GREAT.

AND I'M JUST GOING TO GO BACK TO BED NOW THAT I'VE HAD THE HIGHLIGHT OF MY DAY.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

[ LAUGHTER ] GREAT TO BE WITH YOU, BILL.

>> PROFESSOR GILLESPIE, PROFESSOR OF POLITICAL SCIENCE AND ALSO DIRECTOR OF THE JAMES WELDON JOHNSON INSTITUTE FOR THE STUDY OF RACE AND DIFFERENCE IS WITH US.

HI, AUNDRA, HOW ARE YOU?

>> GOOD.

HI, HOW ARE YOU?

>> I'M GOOD.

ARE YOU GETTING -- IS EMORY ABOUT TO GO ON SPRING BREAK?

>> WE GOT A COUPLE MORE WEEKS BEFORE SPRING BREAK.

>> SO YOU'RE STILL WORKING HARD.

>> YEAH.

>> WELL, THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE TODAY.

BY THE WAY, ARE YOU HEARING OKAY?

ARE YOU HAVING AN ECHO THAT'S GOING TO BE A PROBLEM FOR YOU DURING THE SHOW?

>> I AM FINE.

>> GOOD TO HEAR THAT.

WE WERE HAVING SOME PROBLEMS WHEN WE FIRST CONNECTED WITH YOU.

>> WE HAVE THE CEO OF MUNDO HISPANICO DIGITAL IS WITH US.

HOW ARE YOU, RENEE?

HJS I'M DOING WELL.

IT'S FRIDAY, I FEEL GOOD.

LOTS TO TALK ABOUT, AND OBVIOUSLY WITH MUNDO, WE TRY TO BREAK DOWN INFORMATION FOR THE HISPANIC COMMUNITY THROUGHOUT GEORGIA, REACHING ABOUT A MILLION FOLKS, AND ALWAYS EXCITED TO DO WHAT WE DO WITH THE GREAT TEAM.

>> WE SHOULD POINT OUT, THOUGH, AND I'M NOT SURE WE'VE EVER REALLY SAID THIS, MUNDO, EVEN THOUGH YOU'RE BASED HERE IN GEORGIA, IS A NATIONAL NEWS ORGANIZATION.

YOU HAVE PEOPLE AROUND THE COUNTRY WORKING FOR YOU, AND CERTAINLY PEOPLE ARE GETTING THEIR NEWS FROM YOU FROM ALL OVER THE COUNTRY, RIGHT?

>> THAT'S CORRECT.

WE REACH ABOUT 10 TO 12 MILLION UNIQUE VISITORS A MONTH.

WE'RE THE THIRD LARGEST DIGITAL-FIRST PLATFORM IN THE UNITED STATES AND SPANISH LANGUAGE, BEING BASED IN GEORGIA JUST GIVES US A NICE PERCH FROM WHICH TO GET THE VIEW AND PANORAMA OF THE ENTIRE HISPANIC COMMUNITY.

BUT WE REACH CALIFORNIA, NEW YORK, ALL THE POPULATION CENTERS.

>> THANK YOU FOR MAKING US AWARE OF THE BROAD REACH OF YOUR ORGANIZATION.

AND, PATRICIA, RENEE SAYS, BEING IN ATLANTA'S A GOOD THING, HE SAYS.

WE KNOW AS POLITICAL JOURNALISTS JUST HOW IMPORTANT GEORGIA HAS BECOME TO THE WHOLE COUNTRY POLITICALLY, YES?

>> YES, IT'S SO TRUE.

GEORGIA USED TO BE -- IT'S NEVER BEEN DULL HERE IN GEORGIA, BUT IT HAS REALLY NOT BEEN A SWING STATE THE WAY IT IS NOW.

AND, SO, IT KEEPS EVERY DAY LIVELY AND EXCITING AND WE KNOW THE NATION IS WATCHING.

>> SO, LET'S START WITH A LOOK AT WHAT HAPPENED THIS WEEK IN TERMS OF THE BORDER REGIONS AND SONNY PERDUE, PATRICIA.

WE'VE KNOWN FOR MONTHS AND MONTHS THAT SONNY PERDUE WAS PROBABLY A LEADING CANDIDATE TO BECOME THE NEXT CHANCELLOR OF THE UNIVERSITY SYSTEM.

WE KNOW THAT BRIAN KEMP WAS FAVORABLE TO HIS BEING THE CHANCELLOR.

THE GOVERNOR DOES NOT PICK THE CHANCELLOR, THE BOARD OF REGENTS DO THAT.

BUT GOVERNOR KEMP HAS BEEN ABLE TO REPLACE MEMBERS OF THE BOARD, RESHOVEL THE LEADERSHIP STRUCTURE TO PUT IN PLACE THE PEOPLE WHO WOULD CONFIRM THAT SONNY PERDUE WOULD BE THE NEXT CHANCELLOR.

AND HE'S NOW THEIR SOLE FINALIST FOR THE POSITION, BUT HIS CHOICE IS NOT WITHOUT CONTROVERSY, IS IT?

>> THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT.

THE CHOICE OF SONNY PERDUE HAS ACTUALLY BEEN CONTROVERSIAL SINCE WORD LEAKED THAT IT MIGHT HAPPEN MANY, MANY MONTHS AGO, ALMOST A YEAR AGO.

THERE WERE PROTESTS BY STUDENTS.

WE HAVE HEARD FROM THE ACCREDITING AGENCY THAT ACCREDITS THE UNIVERSITY SYSTEM OF GEORGIA THAT THERE WERE SOME CONCERNS THAT THE PROCESS WOULD'VE BEEN TOO POLITICAL, AND HAVING A FORMER GOP GOVERNOR WHO'S VERY CLOSE WITH BRIAN KEMP CERTAINLY LOOKED POLITICAL TO SOME PEOPLE.

HOWEVER, IN THE MANY MONTHS SINCE THAT WORD FIRST CAME OUT, THERE HAVE BEEN A NUMBER OF VACANCIES THAT WERE COMING UP ON THE BOARD OF REGENTS WHO DOES PICK THE CHANCELLOR, AND BRIAN KEMP WAS ABLE TO REPLACE THOSE VOTES WITH PEOPLE WHO ARE CLOSE TO THE GOVERNOR, WHO HE SUPPORTS AND WHO SUPPORT HIM.

AND AS THE VACANCIES HAVE COME AND THEN BEEN FILLED, SONNY PERDUE, WHO DID NOT HAVE THE VOTES EARLIER TO BE THE CHANCELLOR, NOW DOES HAVE THE VOTES TO BE THE CHANCELLOR.

HE NOW HAS THE SUPPORT OF THE BOARD OF REGENTS.

WE HEAR FROM PEOPLE ON BOTH SIDES OF THIS.

PEOPLE SAY SONNY PERDUE WAS THE GOVERNOR OF GEORGIA FOR TWO TERMS, RAN A MASSIVE FEDERAL AGENCY.

HIS MANAGEMENT SKILLS ARE REALLY NOT IN QUESTION, BUT THERE ARE STILL QUESTIONS ABOUT PERDUE'S POLITICAL INCLINATIONS FOR THE JOB, I WOULD SAY.

HE SAID EARLY ON THAT HE WOULD WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT GEORGIA VALUES WERE INFUSED IN THAT ROLE.

WHAT EXACTLY THAT MEANS IS REALLY UP FOR INTERPRETATION, AND I THINK THAT'S THE INTERPRETATION SOME ACADEMICS ARE UNCOMFORTABLE WITH, THAT HE WILL BE THE NEXT CHANCELLOR.

>> TWO THINGS ABOUT THAT.

THERE HAVE BEEN QUESTIONS AS TO WHETHER HIS LACK OF ANY EXPERIENCE IN A UNIVERSITY SHOULD'VE BEEN A DISQUALIFIER.

BUT EVEN THE ACCREDITATION ORGANIZATION THAT INITIALLY SAID WE MAY LOOK VERY DISFAVORABLY UPON HIS BEING NAMED TO THIS JOB.

BECAUSE OF HIS LACK OF EXPERIENCE THEY'RE NOW SAYING NO, IN FACT, THE REGENTS DON'T REALLY HAVE A SET OF STANDARDS THAT WOULD DEMAND THEY PUT AN ACADEMIC IN THE ROLE.

SO WE'RE GOING TO LET THIS GO.

BUT THEN, AS PATRICIA POINTS OUT, THERE'S ALSO THESE POLITICAL QUESTIONS.

HE DID SAY HE WANTS A MORE CONSERVATIVE ENVIRONMENT AT THE UNIVERSITIES.

BRIAN ROBINSON, A FRIEND OF THIS SHOW FOR A VERY LONG TIME, REPUBLICAN POLITICAL CONSULTANT, SAID THE OTHER DAY THAT IT'S A GOOD CHOICE BECAUSE NOW CONSERVATIVE STUDENTS MAY HAVE MORE OF A VOICE ON CAMPUSES.

SO THAT HAS BEEN ANOTHER PART OF ALL OF THIS, AUNDRA.

>> YES.

AND I DON'T THINK WE'RE GOING TO SEPARATE THE POLITICS OF IT, AND COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES HAVE THEIR OWN POLITICS, AND SO THAT'S GOING TO MAP ONTO THIS PARTICULAR SITUATION.

SO, FROM THE SORT OF INTERNAL UNIVERSAL POLITICS STANDPOINT, I'M NOT QUESTIONING SECRETARY PERDUE'S SORT OF MANAGEMENT SKILLS AND CREDENTIALS, BUT THERE IS SOMETHING TO BE SAID FOR ACTUALLY KIND OF KNOWING THE INDUSTRY THAT YOU'RE COMING INTO.

SO IT'S ONE THING TO HAVE MANAGEMENT SKILLS.

IT'S ANOTHER THING TO ACTUALLY KIND OF KNOW SORT OF YOUR CASE AND KNOW YOUR INDUSTRY.

AND, SO, MY CONCERN, AND I'VE HAD SOME PROFESSORS EMAIL ME IN THE PAST WEEK, IS THAT THIS IS THE EQUIVALENT OF TELLING BILL GATES THAT HE CAN GO RUN A PRODUCE COMPANY OR AN AGRICULTURE COMPANY.

THERE ARE JUST THINGS THAT HE DOESN'T KNOW ABOUT AGRICULTURE THAT JUST BECAUSE HE'S VERY GOOD AT TECH ARE NOT NECESSARILY GOING TO TRANSFER OVER.

AND WHETHER OR NOT POLITICIANS SHOULD EVER BECOME CHANCELLORS, I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH POLITICIANS BECOMING CHANCELLORS IF THEY WERE PROFESSORS BEFOREHAND AND ACTUALLY UNDERSTAND WHAT HIGHER EDUCATION IS.

AND THERE ARE FORMER LEGISLATORS WHO WERE DEMOCRATS WHO WERE GOVERNORS WHO MIGHT BE BETTER POSITIONED FOR THESE JOBS.

THIS SAYS A LOT ABOUT BRIAN KEMP.

AND I ACTUALLY SEE THIS AS A TRIANGULATION MOVE.

THE FACT THAT HE IS SUPPORTING HIS COMPETITOR'S COUSIN IN THIS PARTICULAR RACE I THINK SHOWS HOW DEEP HIS NETWORK IS AND HOW HE'S ACTUALLY, YOU KNOW, IT LOOKS LIKE FOR NOW WEATHERING SORT OF THE PRIMARY CHALLENGE FROM DAVID PERDUE.

>> RENEE, LET'S KEEP TALKING ABOUT THAT FOR A FEW MORE MINUTES.

THERE WAS AN ESSAY, AND CHRIS CLARK WHO WORKED IN THE ADMINISTRATION BACK WHEN SONNY PERDUE WAS GOVERNOR.

AND HERE'S ONE OF THE THINGS HE SAYS ABOUT PERDUE'S QUALIFICATIONS.

HE'S VERY EXCITED, HE SAYS IN THIS PIECE ABOUT, PERDUE GETTING THE JOB.

HE SAYS THIS.

CRITICAL TO BUILDING THAT LONG-TERM TALENT PIPELINE ARE THE GEORGIA BOARD OF REGENTS AND THE CHANCELLOR OF THE UNIVERSITY SYSTEM OF GEORGIA.

HE'S TALKING ABOUT TRAINING STUDENTS FOR JOBS IN BUSINESS.

THIS PIVOTAL PUBLIC SERVANT IS THE MOST CRITICAL LINK BACK TO THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY, GEORGIA HAS A LONG HISTORY OF PARTNERSHIP BETWEEN BUSINESS AND THE BOARD OF REGENTS.

AND THAT'S WHY I'M EXCITED TO LEARN THAT GOVERNOR SONNY PERDUE HAS BEEN NAMED SOLE FINALIST AS THE NEXT CHANCELLOR.

A RINGING ENDORSEMENT SAYING THIS IS A MAN WHO UNDERSTANDS BUSINESS AND WILL BE ABLE TO MOVE THE UNIVERSITY SYSTEM IN A DIRECTION THAT HELPS BUSINESSES ACROSS THE STATE.

>> WELL, IT SEEMS TO BE THAT THE POSITION OF CHANCELLOR OF EDUCATION THROUGHOUT THE STATE OF GEORGIA IS CERTAINLY MUCH MORE THAN JUST A BUSINESS POSITION.

IT'S NOT A ROLE IN THAT SUCCESSION WHERE THERE ARE FOLKS BACKSTABBING EACH OTHER TO GET AHEAD.

AN EDUCATION, A QUALITY EDUCATION HAS MANY COMPONENTS.

DOES MR. PERDUE HAVE THE EXPERIENCE TO GRAPPLE WITH THOSE MANY COMPONENTS THAT ARE INVOLVED WITH PUBLIC EDUCATION?

I DON'T KNOW.

MANY FOLKS DON'T THINK SO.

I DO THINK THAT IT'S VERY CONTROVERSIAL AT THE MOMENT, ASIDE FROM THE FACT THAT HIS LAST NAME IS PERDUE AND HE'S THE COUSIN OF ARCHNEMESIS AT THIS POINT IN THE PRIMARY.

BUT, PERDUE, HE WENT OUT AND STOOD FOR CONFEDERATE HISTORY MONTH IN GEORGIA IN 2006.

IT WAS VERY DIVISIVE, VERY CONTROVERSIAL.

WE'RE LOOKING AT THIS MOMENT FOR A UNITED GEORGIA, A COHESIVE, DIVERSE GEORGIA WHERE OUR FUTURE IS PACKED WITH SUCCESS.

WHAT THAT MEANS IS PUTTING SOMEONE WHO HAS A DISCONNECT WITH THE FUTURE OF THE STATE THE WISEST MOVE IN THE GRAND SCHEME FOR THE EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM IN THE STATE OF GEORGIA?

>> I'M SORRY, RENEE.

BEFORE WE MOVE ON, PATRICIA, A COUPLE NOTES.

NUMBER ONE, IT TURNS OUT THAT SOMETHING LIKE 70% OF THE JOBS FILLED BY PEOPLE WHO BECOME CHANCELLORS OR MEMBERS OF BOARDS OF REGENTS IN UNIVERSITIES CROSS-COUNTRY DO NOT HAVE ACADEMIC CREDENTIALS.

IT IS NOT THAT UNUSUAL.

AND HERE'S WHAT I THINK IS REALLY INTERESTING.

IT'S NOT EVEN UNPRECEDENTED HERE IN GEORGIA.

WHEN EROL DAVIS WAS NAMED THE CHANCELLOR OF THE UNIVERSITY SYSTEM BACK IN 2008, SOMETHING LIKE THAT, '09, HE HAD COME OUT OF INDUSTRY.

AND, IN FACT, HIS TENURE WAS SO CELEBRATED THAT HE WENT ON TO BE NAMED THE HEAD OF THE ATLANTA PUBLIC SCHOOLS AT A TIME WHEN THEY REALLY NEEDED HELP.

SO, THIS ISN'T AN ENTIRELY UNPRECEDENTED MOVE, RIGHT?

>> THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT.

AND I WOULD SAY THAT POLITICIANS HAVE KIND OF A HIT-OR-MISS RECORD WITH BEING INTRODUCED TO ACADEMIA.

ALTHOUGH WHEN I WAS GRADUATING FROM COLLEGE AND I WAS TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT TO DO WITH MY LIFE, I WAS TOLD IF YOU LIKE POLITICS, GO INTO ACADEMIA, IT CAN BE A VERY POLITICAL PLACE.

AND SONNY PERDUE IS GOING TO BE REALLY WELL POSITIONED FOR THAT.

WHAT I FIND FASCINATING ABOUT THIS IS BECAUSE IT IS A LENGTHY TERM NO MATTER WHO IS THE NEXT GOVERNOR, SONNY PERDUE IS GOING TO BE THE HEAD OF THE UNIVERSITY SYSTEM WITHOUT SOME UNFORESEEN VERY UNUSUAL CIRCUMSTANCE.

HE'LL BE THE HEAD OF THE UNIVERSITY SYSTEM WHETHER IT'S GOVERNOR KEMP, HIS ALLY, WHETHER IT'S STACEY ABRAMS OR DAVID PERDUE.

IT'S PROBABLY THE ONE STABLE THING WE CAN LOOK AHEAD TOWARDS.

IT DOES ALSO HAVE SOME INTERESTING DYNAMIC OF KEEPING SONNY PERDUE ON THE SIDELINES WHILE BRIAN KEMP AND DAVID PERDUE ARE REALLY BATTLING IT UP.

WE'VE BEEN WAITING TO HEAR FROM SONNY PERDUE ABOUT THIS RACE, AND THIS REALLY GUARANTEES THAT THAT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

>> I THINK THAT'S PROBABLY CORRECT.

AUNDRA, BEFORE WE MOVE COMPLETELY AWAY FROM THIS, LET'S POINT OUT THE FACT THAT THIS WEEK GOVERNOR PERDUE -- I'M SORRY, GOVERNOR KEMP REALLY SHOWED US CLEARLY THAT HE HAS AN IRON FIST IN HIS JOB AS GOVERNOR, ESPECIALLY IF HE'S RUNNING FOR RE-ELECTION.

FIRST, THE RESHUFFLING OF THE BOARD OF REGENTS, WHICH LEADS TO SONNY PERDUE, HIS GUY, BEING THE NEXT CHANCELLOR OF THE SYSTEM.

AND THEN ANDREW KINSEN WHO HE PLUCKS OFF OF AN APPEALS COURT WHERE HE'S CERTAINLY BEEN A JUDGE WHO MOST PEOPLE THINK HAS DONE A PRETTY GOOD JOB TO FILL A POSITION ON THE STATE SUPREME COURT.

AND KEMP ESSENTIALLY DID THIS WITHOUT GOING THROUGH A PROCESS OF TALKING TO OTHER ATTORNEYS ABOUT THIS, VETTING THE CANDIDACY A LITTLE MORE.

ALTHOUGH PINSON HAD BEEN VETTED IN HIS LOWER COURT APPOINTMENT.

STILL, THIS IS KEMP SHOWING HE'S TOUGH-MINDED, HE HAS GOT AN IRON WILL ABOUT DOING WHAT HE WANTS TO DO.

AND HE SEES IT, AS I THINK, IMPORTANT TO HIS RE-ELECTION CAMPAIGN.

>> I THINK IT IS ESSENTIAL TO HIS RE-ELECTION CAMPAIGN IN ORDER TO BE ABLE TO SHOW STRENGTH, TO BE ABLE TO SHOW INDEPENDENCE, TO SHOW POWER, TO MAKE DECISIONS THAT ARE GOING TO MAKE PEOPLE BEHOLDEN TO HIM.

I LEAVE THIS ALL KIND OF AS PART OF THAT.

AND I THINK THIS IS ACTUALLY A REALLY IMPORTANT LESSON FROM WHEN WE TALK ABOUT WHAT THE POWER OF DONALD TRUMP IS.

WE STILL HAVE NOT EMPIRICALLY PROVEN YET THAT DONALD TRUMP ACTUALLY CAN POSITIVELY SORT OF CAUSE SOMEBODY'S POLITICAL FORTUNES TO GO UP.

AND I THINK THAT THERE IS A LOT OF SORT OF EVIDENCE THAT WE NEED TO EXAMINE MORE CAREFULLY THAT MIGHT ACTUALLY CALL THAT INTO QUESTION.

BUT THE BIG QUESTION FOR REPUBLICANS IS ALL OF THESE FOLKS WERE IN POWER BEFORE DONALD TRUMP CAME TO POWER, AND YET THEY COWER IN HIS PRESENCE TODAY.

SO SOONER OR LATER IT'S GOING TO TAKE THE REALIZATION THAT SOME OF THESE PLAYERS WERE AROUND BEFORE DONALD TRUMP AND THEY'RE GOING TO BE AROUND AFTER DONALD TRUMP, AND THEY HAD INDEPENDENT BASES OF SUPPORT OF HIM.

AND WHAT WE SEE IS BRIAN KEMP QUIETLY EXERCISING THAT BECAUSE HE HAS TO.

AND I THINK THAT THAT'S ACTUALLY A ROLE MODEL FOR OTHER REPUBLICANS TO JUST DO THE THINGS THAT THEY KNEW HOW TO DO LONG BEFORE DONALD TRUMP DECIDED THAT HE WANTED TO BE PRESIDENT.

>> OKAY.

SINCE WE'VE ALREADY BEEN TALKING A LITTLE BIT ABOUT DAVID PERDUE AND ABOUT BRIAN KEMP, LET'S LOOK AT THAT RACE AND SOME OF THE DEVELOPMENTS THAT HAPPENED THIS WEEK.

RENEE, EARLIER THIS WEEK, THE TRAFALGAR GROUP, WHICH IS A CONSERVATIVE ORGANIZATION THAT DOES POLLING, RELEASED A POLL OF SOMETHING LIKE A THOUSAND REGISTERED REPUBLICANS IN GEORGIA.

AND IT FOUND THAT BRIAN KEMP LEADS DAVID PERDUE 49% TO 40%.

AT THE SAME TIME, WE SHOULD SAY THAT THE POLL ALSO FOUND THAT 40% OF THE PEOPLE THEY TALKED TO DID NOT KNOW THAT DAVID PERDUE HAD BEEN ENDORSED BY TRUMP, WHICH GOES TO WHAT AUNDRA JUST TALKED ABOUT, IS THAT GOING TO BE AN IMPORTANT FACTOR ONCE THEY DO LEARN THIS?

BUT, THIS POLL CONFIRMS A LOT OF PEOPLE'S FEELINGS THAT KEMP REALLY, IN ITS FUNDRAISING, WHICH IS FAR, FAR SURPASSED WHAT PERDUE HAS BEEN ABLE TO DO, REALLY HAS A MOMENTUM AS THE PRIMARY APPROACHES IN MAY.

YOUR THOUGHTS?

>> POLLS ARE ALWAYS FUN TO, YOU KNOW, DISCUSS, READ, WHAT NOT.

IT'S A LITTLE EARLY, BUT IT DOES GIVE US SOME INSIGHT, AND ESSENTIALLY IT SAYS, FROM MY TAKE ON IT, THAT TRUMP STILL HAS A LOT OF SWAY WITHIN THE CORE OF THE GOP PARTY.

THERE ARE CERTAIN FOLKS THAT THE POLLS DO NOT REACH.

AND WHO ARE THOSE INDIVIDUALS AND HOW ARE THEY GOING TO VOTE?

THAT IS THE BIG QUESTION.

WE SEE TRUMP DOING EVERYTHING THAT HE CAN TO PACK CANDIDATES AROUND THE COUNTRY WITH QUESTIONABLE EXPERIENCE AND SUSPECT RECORDS.

AND HOW WELL THEY DO HERE IN GEORGIA IS YET TO BE DETERMINED.

BUT I DO THINK THAT IT MAKES KEMP LOOK RATHER CLEAN.

HIS POOR CONSERVATISM, HE'S MAKING ALL THE RIGHT MOVES.

WHILE AT THE SAME TIME DO THINGS THAT WILL MOST LIKELY OFFER HIM A PRIMARY.

>> PATRICIA, HERE'S ANOTHER INTERESTING DEVELOPMENT IN THE GOVERNOR'S RACE.

YOU'RE WELL AWARE OF THIS.

DAVID PERDUE, WHO RAISED LESS THAN A MILLION DOLLARS IN THE LAST QUARTER, THE REPORTING PERIOD AT THE END OF 2021, HAS NOW CALLED ON DONALD TRUMP AND SAID I NEED YOUR HELP, AND ON MARCH 16th, TRUMP IS GOING TO HOST A FUNDRAISER AT MAR-A-LAGO FOR DAVID PERDUE.

TALK ABOUT THAT A LITTLE, PATRICIA.

>> YEAH.

THAT'S THE KIND OF HELP THAT DAVID PERDUE REALLY DOES NEED.

HE POSTED THIS INCREDIBLY LACKLUSTER FUNDRAISING NUMBER, LESS THAN A MILLION DOLLARS.

AND IT REALLY MAKES ME WONDER WHAT THE CONVERSATIONS WERE BEFORE HE DECIDED TO RUN WITH DONALD TRUMP.

WAS IT, DON'T WORRY, YOU'LL HAVE EVERYTHING YOU'LL NEED, WE'RE GOING TO RAISE THE MONEY FOR YOU, PEOPLE ARE GOING TO COME OUT OF THE WOODWORK.

IT HAS NOT BEEN SO GREAT SO FAR.

WE ALSO KNOW HE'S NOT CATCHING ON WITH THE SMALL DOLLAR DONORS.

HE SHOULD REALLY BE POPPING WITH THEM IF HE'S THE DONALD TRUMP PREFERRED CANDIDATE.

HE IS GETTING REINFORCEMENTS FROM DONALD TRUMP.

HE WILL HAVE THAT MAR-A-LAGO FUNDRAISER IN THE MIDDLE OF MARCH.

ALTHOUGH THERE IS JUST A PARADE OF CANDIDATES WHO ARE HAVING FUNDRAISERS AT MAR-A-LAGO.

HERSCHEL WALKER HAS ALREADY HAD HIS FUNDRAISER AT MAR-A-LAGO.

HE'S NOT THE ONLY CANDIDATE GETTING THIS KIND OF TREATMENT ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

THERE ARE FIVE OTHER GOP PRIMARIES THAT TRUMP HAS GOTTEN INVOLVED IN.

SO IT WILL BE A HELP.

WE'LL JUST HAVE TO SEE REALLY WHAT HAPPENS WITH THAT.

BUT IT'S JUST A PART OF A PROMISE THAT TRUMP HAS NOW MADE TO PERDUE.

DONALD TRUMP IS GOING TO COME HERE AND DO A RALLY FOR DAVID PERDUE BEFORE THE PRIMARY, HE SAYS.

AND HE'S ALSO GOING TO SEND HIS KIDS DONALD TRUMP JR. AND THE OTHER TRUMP CHILDREN, THE WHOLE TRUMP FAMILY WILL COME AND START TO STUMP FOR DAVID PERDUE AS WELL.

A LOT OF THIS IS SORT OF DEJA VU FROM 2020.

ALL OF THIS HAPPENED BEFORE DAVID PERDUE LOST HIS ELECTION IN 2021.

SO IT'S A DIFFERENT SITUATION.

BUT HE NEEDS THE HELP.

HE'S BEHIND KEMP NOT JUST IN MONEY BUT IN POLLING, AS WE TALKED ABOUT.

SO TRUMP HAS PUT SO MUCH INTO THIS RACE.

HE'S PUT HIS REPUTATION ON THE LINE.

HE CANNOT LET BRIAN KEMP BEAT HIM IN THIS PRIMARY.

SO I THINK WE'RE GOING TO SEE A LOT OF DONALD TRUMP IN HIS EFFORTS HERE IN THE WEEKS AHEAD.

>> LET ME PUT THIS IN A LARGER CONTEXT, PATRICIA.

FIRST YOU, AND THEN I'D LOVE TO HEAR YOU, RENEE, AND AUNDRA WEIGH IN ON THIS.

WE KNOW THAT JUST YESTERDAY, KEVIN McCARTHY, WHO HOPES TO BECOME SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE IF REPUBLICANS TAKE CONTROL OF THE HOUSE AFTER THE ELECTIONS, HE DECIDED TO ENDORSE LIZ CHENEY'S OPPONENT IN A REPUBLICAN PRIMARY RACE IN WYOMING.

AND OF COURSE THAT'S BECAUSE LIZ CHENEY WAS ONE OF THOSE WHO VOTED FOR IMPEACHMENT AND ACTUALLY SITS ON THE JANUARY 6th COMMITTEE.

BUT HERE'S WHAT I THINK IS INTERESTING ABOUT THIS, PATRICIA.

HER OPPONENT IS HARRIET HIGMAN WHO HAS RAISED IN THE LAST QUARTER JUST $443,000 COMPARED TO THE 2 MILLION THAT LIZ CHENEY RAISED IN THAT PERIOD.

LIZ CHENEY NOW HAS $5 MILLION CASH ON HAND FOR HER RACE, WHEREAS THE TRUMP CANDIDATE HIGMAN ONLY HAS $380,000.

SHE TOO IS ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE WHO IS GOING TO HAVE TO BE CALLING ON DONALD TRUMP AND SAYING, HEY, PAL, YOU GOT ME INTO THIS THING, WHERE ARE YOU, RIGHT?

>> YES.

THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT.

ONE SOURCE THAT DAVID PERDUE HAS NOT TAPPED YET IS HIS OWN WALLET.

HE IS A VERY WEALTHY MAN, LIVES AT SEA ISLAND DOWN ON THE GEORGIA COAST.

BUT HE HAS NOT FUNDED HIS CAMPAIGN IN THE WAY THAT WE EXPECTED HIM TO.

I THINK THE EXPECTATION IS THAT HE MIGHT PUT 1 OR $2 MILLION INTO HIS OWN RACE.

I THINK FOR OTHER DONORS THEY'RE ALSO WAITING TO SEE WHEN IS DAVID PERDUE GOING TO START SPENDING SOME MONEY ON THIS RACE.

SO THAT'S AN OUTSTANDING DETAIL THAT WE'RE STILL GOING TO TAKE A LOOK AT.

ONE REALLY IMPORTANT THING THAT'S HAPPENED IN THE LAST WEEK IN THIS RACE ALSO IS THAT THE REPUBLICAN GOVERNOR'S ASSOCIATION HAVE COME OUT IN FAVOR OF BRIAN KEMP.

THEY'VE NEVER COME OUT DURING A PRIMARY.

AND THIS IS OBVIOUSLY A CONTESTED PRIMARY.

AND, SO, THE RGA VERY, VERY POWERFUL, VERY DEEP POCKETS, IT IS A VOTE AGAINST DONALD TRUMP.

IT IS THEM SAYING STAY OUT OF THIS RACE, THERE'S NOTHING THAT BRIAN KEMP HAS DONE THAT'S NOT CONSISTENT WITH BEING A SOLID REPUBLICAN GOVERNOR.

AND, SO, I THINK THAT'LL BE A VERY IMPORTANT DYNAMIC TO WATCH AS WELL AS MORE AND MORE REPUBLICANS START TO REALLY HAVE TO CHOOSE WHICH WAY THEY'RE GOING TO GO ON THIS PRIMARY.

>> SO, AUNDRA, THIS GOES BACK TO WHAT YOU'VE TALKED ABOUT, HOW IMPORTANT IS TRUMP'S ENDORSEMENT.

AND THE FACT THAT HIS HAND-CHOSEN CANDIDATE IN WYOMING CAN'T RAISE ANY MONEY, THAT DAVID PERDUE'S HAVING TROUBLE RAISING MONEY.

IT DOES RAISE THESE QUESTIONS ABOUT JUST WHAT HIS VALUE IS.

AND HE'S RAISING, OF COURSE, A HUNDRED PLUS MILLION DOLLARS ALREADY SINCE LEAVING THE WHITE HOUSE.

IT DOESN'T SEEM TO BE GOING TO THE CANDIDATES HE'S ENDORSED, AUNDRA.

>> WELL, DONALD TRUMP IS RAISING HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS BECAUSE HE SENDS NASTY TEXTS EVERY DAY INCLUDING I HAVEN'T HEARD FROM YOU.

LIKE, IT IS BORDERLINE KIND OF BULLYING.

SO, I THINK SOONER OR LATER REPUBLICANS ARE GOING TO HAVE TO ASK THEMSELVES WHAT THEY ARE GETTING OUT OF IT.

SO, YES, THEY GOT A CACHE OF VOTERS WHO HADN'T PREVIOUSLY BEEN ACTIVE IN ELECTIONS BEFORE.

BUT THEY'VE GOTTEN A LOT OF CHAOS.

THEY'VE GOTTEN MULTIPLE INVESTIGATIONS THAT WERE WARRANTED.

THEY'VE GOTTEN A COUPLE OF IMPEACHMENTS, AND HE DOESN'T SHARE THE WEALTH.

SOONER OR LATER PEOPLE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO REALIZE THAT THIS IS A VERY, VERY UNEQUAL RELATIONSHIP.

THE POSSIBLE STORY LINE COULD BE THAT IT FINALLY PROVES THAT THE EMPEROR HAS NO CLOTHES IN THIS PARTICULAR SCENARIO, LIKE ENDORSEMENTS DON'T MATTER WHERE SORT OF BEING A TRUMP ENDORSED CANDIDATE DOESN'T NECESSARILY TRANSLATE INTO THE TYPE OF FUNDRAISING OR VOTES YOU WANT.

ALSO, BE MINDFUL THAT SURVEYS THAT ARE TAKEN THIS FAR OUT FROM AN ELECTION ARE LIKELY TO SHIFT AND CHANGE.

I WILL SAY ABOUT TRAFALGAR EVEN THOUGH THEIR RATING HAS IMPROVED A LOT IN THE LAST YEAR, THIS IS A GROUP OF SAMPLINGS THAT SEEMS TO BE OPAQUE TO A LOT OF PEOPLE.

SO WHILE I DON'T NECESSARILY DISAGREE WITH THE INTUITION OF WHAT'S GOING ON HERE, LIKE, I WOULD JUST CAUTION THAT THERE ARE LOTS OF REASONS TO TAKE THIS WITH A GRAIN OF SALT EVEN THOUGH I THINK IT LOOKS LIKE THE WINS ARE ACTUALLY POINTING IN THE DIRECTION OF KEMP BEING AHEAD, HERSCHEL WALKER BEING AHEAD, ET CETERA.

>> I THINK THAT'S A REALLY GOOD POINT.

AND SO I THINK -- AND, RENEE, YOU BASICALLY HINTED AT THIS -- THE FACT THAT THIS POLL SHOWS KEMP WITH A NINE-POINT LEAD MAY NOT HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH WHAT THE OUTCOME OF THIS RACE IS GOING TO BE.

FIRST OF ALL, A LOT OF THINGS MIGHT DEVELOP IN THE TIME BETWEEN NOW AND MAY 24th.

BUT MORE IMPORTANT, THIS IS THE SORT OF THING THAT IF YOU'RE GOING TO OPEN YOUR CHECKBOOK AND GIVE MONEY, YOU MAY NOT BE QUITE AS INCLINED RIGHT NOW TO GIVE IT TO DAVID PERDUE.

AND I'LL BE GLAD TO HAVE YOU ADDRESS THAT, BUT ALSO ADD ONE OTHER NOTE THAT YOU CAN TALK ABOUT IN THIS SAME POLL, HERSCHEL WALKER'S AT 70%.

GARY BLACK AND THE OTHERS ARE IN SINGLE DIGESTS.

AND IT LOOKS, FOR ALL PRACTICAL PURPOSES, THAT THAT RACE IS OVER WITH.

>> ACCORDING TO THIS PARTICULAR POLL, YOU'RE RIGHT.

IT DOES LOOK LIKE WALKER IS A FOREGONE CONCLUSION.

JUST THIS MORNING OR LAST NIGHT I SAW AN INSTAGRAM POST WHERE HERSCHEL WALKER IS BASICALLY AUCTIONING OFF A TRUMP MAR-A-LAGO GOLF TRIP, WHICH IS INTERESTING.

AND YOU JUST, FRANKLY, DON'T EVEN KNOW WHERE ALL OF THIS MONEY IS GOING TO.

THERE HAS BEEN MANY REPORTS OF TRUMP'S CAPITALIZING PERSONALLY ON ALL OF THE MONEY THAT'S BEING DONATED TO HIM, ALL OF THE MAGA HATS AND T-SHIRTS, ET CETERA.

WHERE ARE ALL THESE MILLIONS GOING?

I THINK WHAT WE'RE WATCHING RIGHT NOW IS WHAT WE KNEW OF AS THE CONSERVATIVE POLITICAL MACHINE JUST IMPLODE.

IT DOESN'T KNOW WHERE IT IS GOING AND WHO IT IS ANYMORE.

AND IT'S ENCAPSULATING EVERYTHING THAT'S HAPPENING IN POLITICS RIGHT NOW.

TRUMP VERSUS OLD-SCHOOL CONSERVATIVES.

IT'S ENTRENCHED POLITICIANS VERSUS TODAY'S YOUTH.

THAT YOUTH IS DIVERSE.

THEY WANT AUTHENTICITY.

IT'S WHERE SOMEONE LIKE SONNY PERDUE MAY NOT BE THE, YOU KNOW, AUTHENTIC EDUCATION CHANCELLORS THAT FOLKS UNDER A CERTAIN AGE WANT TO SEE IN THEIR LEADERSHIP.

SO, WE'LL SEE HOW ALL OF THESE PLAY OUT AS WE GET CLOSER TO ALL OF THE ELECTION AND HOW DEMOCRATS THEN KIND OF REGAIN THEIR FOOTING.

RIGHT NOW THEY'RE SCRAMBLING FOR A COHESIVE MESSAGE AND THEY'RE NOT REALLY ABLE TO CONTROL THE MEDIA NARRATIVE.

THEY'VE BEEN STRUGGLING IN THAT DEPARTMENT.

WE'RE REALLY SEEING CHAOS IN THIS POST-PANDEMIC POLITICAL LANDSCAPE.

AND WATCHING IT DIE AND COME BACK TO LIFE IS LIKE POLITICAL WALKING DEAD.

>> OKAY.

GOT TO GET TO OUR FIRST BREAK OF THE SHOW, BUT A LOT MORE TO TALK ABOUT WHEN WE COME BACK.

THIS IS "POLITICAL REWIND."

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♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ >>> MUNDO HISPANICO, AND THE AJC'S PATRICIA MURPHY JOIN ME FOR TODAY'S "POLITICAL REWIND."

LET'S TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT ANOTHER EVENT THAT TOOK PLACE THIS WEEK, PATRICIA.

AND THAT IS ONCE AND FOR ALL, EXCUSE ME, BOTH THE LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR GEOFF DUNCAN AND THE SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE DAVID RALSTON SAID WE'RE NOT GOING TO MOVE FORWARD WITH BUCKHEAD.

HE SAID HE HASN'T SEEN ANY DOCUMENTATION THAT SHOWS THAT THE PEOPLE WHO ARE ADVOCATING FOR CITYHOOD HAVE GOT A CLEAR PATH OF DOING IT FINANCIALLY.

THAT GAVE RALSTON SORT OF AN EASY LANDING PLACE.

BECAUSE WHAT RALSTON BASICALLY SAID IN HIS FIRST COMMENTS ON THIS IS IF THE SENATE'S NOT GOING FORWARD, WE CAN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT IN THE HOUSE.

BUT THE MOVEMENT IS CERTAINLY DEAD THIS SESSION, YES?

>> YES.

THERE COULD STILL BE A HOUSE OR SENATE HEARING ON THE ISSUE ON A POTENTIAL BILL.

BUT IN TERMS OF ACTUALLY MOVING THIS TO THE FLOOR FOR CONSIDERATION, SPEAKER RALSTON AND LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR DUNCAN SAID THEY WANT TO GIVE THE ATLANTA MAYOR TIME TO WORK ON THIS ISSUE.

SO I THINK THEY HAVE EACH MET WITH AUND RAE DICKENS A FEW TIMES.

THEY BOTH THINK THAT THE MAYOR DESERVES TIME TO DEAL WITH THIS ISSUE.

BUT THERE HAVE BEEN A LOT OF OTHER PROBLEMS WITH THE ENTIRE EFFORT.

NUMBER ONE, AS YOU SAID, THE BUCKHEAD CITY GROUP HAS NEVER ANSWERED THE QUESTIONS THAT PEOPLE HAVE BEEN ASKING.

IT'S A MUCH MORE COMPLICATED ISSUE TO SEPARATE ONE CITY FROM ANOTHER.

THAT RAISES QUESTIONS ABOUT SCHOOLS, ABOUT BOND RATINGS ACROSS THE STATE.

IT RAISES QUESTIONS ABOUT WHO HAPPENS TO THE CITY PARKS IN BUCKHEAD, WHAT HAPPENS TO THE CITY SCHOOLS.

SO, NONE OF THAT HAS EVER BEEN ADDRESSED IN THE YEAR THAT THIS HAS BEEN GOING ON.

AND THERE ARE YARD SIGNS, AND THERE ARE MAILERS AND THERE'S JUST INFORMATION EVERYWHERE.

BUT THE REAL ANSWERS TO THE QUESTIONS HAVE NEVER BEEN PROVIDED.

I THINK BOTH LEADERS WERE UNCOMFORTABLE PUSHING THIS FORWARD WITHOUT KNOWING MORE ABOUT WHAT THIS MIGHT LOOK LIKE.

AND THEN THE FINAL PIECE OF IT IS THE LEADER OF THE BUCKHEAD CITY MOVEMENT HAS BEEN VERY CONTROVERSIAL.

IN PERSON HE IS VERY DYNAMIC ON SOCIAL MEDIA HE HAS BEEN AGGRESSIVE, ATTACKING LAWMAKERS, AND THEN FINALLY ATTACKING THE FORMER CEO OF MARTA AND REALLY PUSHING A REALLY UGLY CONSPIRACY AFTER HE COMMITTED SUICIDE.

IT'S BEEN AN EFFORT THAT I THINK EVERYBODY IN THE STATE CAPITOL HAS SAID, NO, NOT NOW, MAYBE LATER, BUT NOT NOW.

>> RENEE, LET'S PICK UP ON THE BILL WHITE PART OF THIS STORY.

AS PATRICIA POINTS OUT, HE LOST A LOT OF GROUND AMONG LEGISLATORS ON BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE AND ON BOTH SIDES OF THIS ISSUE WHEN HE DID ATTACK.

JEFFREY PARKER, WHO COMMITTED SUICIDE, WHOSE FAMILY SAID HE HAD DEPRESSION.

AND WHITE SET OUT THIS MESSAGE SAYING THAT MAYBE PARKER KILLED HIMSELF BECAUSE OF MISSING MONEY IN MARTA FUNDS.

THERE WASN'T ANY MISSING MONEY IN MARTA FUNDS.

THE REASON I MENTION THAT NOW IS THAT THE BUCKHEAD CITYHOOD FOLKS AT A NEWS CONFERENCE WEDNESDAY, THEY REAFFIRMED THAT BILL WHITE IS THEIR LEADER AND HE'LL MOVE FORWARD WITH THIS EFFORT, WHICH I THOUGHT WAS PARTICULARLY INTERESTING BECAUSE IT FEELS LIKE WHITE HAS BECOME INCREASINGLY TONE-DEAF.

>> YEAH.

IT APPEARS THAT BILL WHITE TOOK THE TRUMP TRAIN JUST TOO FAR.

MALIGNING A DEAD MAN ON INSTAGRAM WHO OBVIOUSLY HAD MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES AND WAS GOING THROUGH SOMETHING.

EVERYONE KNOWS SOMEONE WHO HAS GONE THROUGH DARK TIMES, AND IT WAS JUST HEARTBREAKING TO READ ABOUT HOW HE PASSED AND HIS FAMILY, AND FOR BILL WHITE TO GO ON INSTAGRAM AND DO WHAT HE DID AND THEN DELETE THE POST MADE IT ALL THE WORSE.

AT THE SAME TIME HE'S USING MEETINGS TO BRAG ABOUT HIMSELF WHILE EXPECTING EVERYONE ELSE, WELL, DOESN'T THAT SOUND AWFULLY FAMILIAR?

PERHAPS THIS CITY COULD FIND AN INDICATION OF REALLY HOW TRUMP-ORIENTED CONSERVATIVES ARE WILLING TO GET.

WILL THEY DRAW A LINE AND NOT CROSS IT, AS SOME HAVE DONE WITH NOT PUTTING BUCKHEAD CITY ON THE BALLOT.

LOOK, I THINK THAT BILL WHITE, HE'S A PROFESSIONAL FUNDRAISER, HE'S A TRUMP WANNABE.

HE'S CONTINUING TO PUSH FOR CITYHOOD.

AS LONG AS THERE'S MONEY ON IT HE'S GOT A PACT AND THE CITY COMMITTEE IS BEHIND HIM.

HE'S NOT GOING TO STOP UNTIL THE DOLLARS DRY UP.

IT'S GOING TO BE INTERESTING TO SEE WHERE HE GETS NEXT YEAR WITH THE PEOPLE THAT ARE BACKING HIM.

ONE THING I THINK WE SHOULD POINT OUT.

THERE ARE A LOT OF FOLKS IN BUCKHEAD WHO DO NOT WANT THIS TO HAPPEN.

THEY ARE COMMITTED TO HAVING BUCKHEAD BE THAT BELOVED COMMUNITY THAT ATLANTA IS SUPPOSED TO BE.

THERE'S A REASON WHY ATLANTA IS NOT BIRMINGHAM.

WE ESPOUSE DIVERSITY.

WE LOOK FORWARD.

WE'RE ALL ABOUT INCLUSION, IN BUSINESS, IN ARTS.

AND THAT'S WHAT MANY IN BUCKHEAD SEE THEMSELVES AS BEING THE SHINING LIGHT.

IT IS NO SURPRISE, GIVEN THAT.

>> YOUR THOUGHTS ON WHAT WAS A VERY SUDDEN COLLAPSE OF THE BUCKHEAD CITY MOVEMENT IN THE PAST WEEK.

>> I CAN'T SAY THAT IT WAS A SUDDEN COLLAPSE.

I THINK THE SIGNS WERE POINTING IN THAT DIRECTION.

I THINK, FOR ME, IN DECEMBER AFTER ANDRE DICKENS WAS ELECTED MAYOR, AND THIS IS A GROUP THAT SEEMED LIKE THEY WERE UNITED AGAINST BUCKHEAD CITYHOOD.

I THINK THE HANDWRITING WAS ON THE WALL THEN.

I THINK THE STORIES ABOUT SORT OF BILL WHITE AND HIS RACIST AND CONSPIRATORIAL POSTS I THINK CERTAINLY HAVEN'T HELPED.

AND FOR THAT BUCKHEAD CITY COALITION, I THINK THAT WOULD BE A SIGN TO SAY THAT THAT DISQUALIFIES HIM FROM LEADERSHIP ON THIS.

THIS GUY HAS ALSO HARDLY BEEN IN ATLANTA SORT OF LONG ENOUGH TO GET TO KNOW THE CITY, AND YET HE IS PROPOSING SOMETHING DRASTIC.

I AM WORKING WITH MY COLLEAGUE ON THIS, WE HAVE A WORKING HYPOTHESIS THAT IS SOON TO BE PEER-REVIEWED.

THIS IS MORE COMPLICATED THAN YOUR STANDARD GARDEN VARIETY INITIATIVE WHERE YOU'RE TAKING AN UNINCORPORATED PART OF THE COUNTY AND THEN MAKING IT A CITY.

WE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THAT WHAT HE WAS ASKING FOR WAS CRAZY.

AND HE PROBABLY WOULDN'T HAVE SUGGESTED THAT THE UPPER EAST SIDE SHOULD BECOME ITS OWN INDEPENDENT CITY OR ITS OWN BOROUGH OF NEW YORK CITY.

YOU'RE PART OF NEW YORK, YOU'RE PART OF MANHATTAN.

THAT'S THE SAME INCENTIVE THAT I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE IN BUCKHEAD FEEL.

AND NOT JUST YOUR OWN LITTLE RICH CITY ENCLAVE.

I DON'T THINK HE FACTORS THIS IN, AND I THINK THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE GONE ALONG WITH HIM REALLY DIDN'T THINK THIS ONE THROUGH.

SO IN THE TO SAY THAT THIS IS DEAD, BUT I THINK THERE ARE A LOT OF INCENTIVES FOR BUCKHEAD TO REMAIN A PART OF THE CITY OF ATLANTA.

>> CITYHOOD MOVEMENTS ARE CERTAINLY ALIVE AND WELL AT THE LEGISLATURE FOR CITIES IN COBB COUNTY COULD BECOME REALITY IF THEIR COMMUNITIES VOTE THEM INTO BEING.

ARE ALL FOUR OF THEM ON THE PRIMARY BALLOT, OR IS THERE A DIVISION AMONGST WHEN THEY WILL BE VOTED ON?

>> IT VARIES BY CITY.

WE KNOW THAT THE CITY OF EAST COBB HAS GOTTEN THE GREEN LIGHT FROM THE LEGISLATURE AND THE GOVERNOR, AND THAT'LL BE ON THE MAY PRIMARY BALLOT.

AND THE OTHER ONES HAVE NOT GOTTEN THROUGH.

THEY'VE NOT FINISHED THEIR LEGISLATIVE PROCESS.

THE CITY OF EAST COBB SAID THEY WANTED TO HAVE A VOTE TO, I GUESS, THE BREAKAWAY IN MAY SO THAT THEY COULD THEN ELECT A MAYOR AND CITY COUNCIL IN NOVEMBER.

>> WHAT WE'RE WAITING FOR, ALTHOUGH THE COBB COUNTY COMMISSION HAS NOW RELEASED SOME INITIAL FIGURES SUGGESTING THEY'RE GOING TO TAKE AN ENORMOUS FINANCIAL HIT IF THESE CITIES ARE ALL APPROVED.

WE HAVEN'T SEEN A REALLY SIGNIFICANT ACADEMIC STUDY OF JUST WHAT THE PEDAL THESE MIGHT BE FOR COBB COUNTY IF THEY LOSE ALL THIS REVENUE, RIGHT?

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

THERE HAS BEEN A VIABILITY STUDY FOR EACH ONE OF THESE CITIES INDIVIDUALLY.

BUT THERE'S NOT BEEN A HOLISTIC LOOK AT WHAT IT DOES TO A COUNTY LIKE COBB TO HAVE FOUR SEPARATE PIECES OF THE COUNTY BREAK AWAY POSSIBLY IN THE SAME YEAR.

SO IT WILL CERTAINLY CREATE DUPLICATIVE SERVICES.

THOSE TOWNS ARE GOING TO START TO OFFER SOME OF THE SAME SERVICES THAT COBB COUNTY OFFERS.

NOW, COBB WON'T HAVE TO OFFER THOSE ANYMORE.

BUT THEY WILL STILL HAVE THEIR OWN INDEPENDENT GROUPS DOING THEM AND REST OF THE COUNTY.

SO WE'LL HAVE TO REALLY SEE WHAT THIS DOES.

AND I KNOW THAT STATE LEADERS ARE REALLY GRAPPLING WITH THIS RUSH TO CREATE PEOPLE'S INDIVIDUAL CITIES.

IT IS HAVING EFFECTS, LARGER EFFECTS IN THE COUNTIES WHERE THEY ARE.

IN SOME CASES THEY'RE POSITIVE EFFECTS, IN SOME CASES THEY'RE NEGATIVE.

ALSO I THINK ATLANTA HAS THESE INCREDIBLY BOOMING RAPIDLY CHANGING COUNTIES.

IT'S PUTTING THE RESIDENTS HAVE LIVED THERE FOR A LONG TIME TO SAY, YOU KNOW, I DON'T FEEL LIKE THIS FEELS LIKE THE PLACE I MOVED TO, I WANT IT TO GO BACK TO THE WAY IT WAS.

AND JUST HAVING YOUR OWN CITY THE WAY THAT IT WAS.

I THINK IT IT'S A FASCINATING PROCESS TO WATCH AND WE'LL SEE HOW IT TURNS OUT.

BUT THE BUCKHEAD CITYHOOD IS NOT GOING TO BE MOVING AHEAD.

>> NOT THIS YEAR.

LET'S GET TO OUR FINAL BREAK OF THE SHOW AND COME BACK WITH MORE ON "POLITICAL REWIND."

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>> THE IN-DEPTH ANALYSIS YOU NEED.

>> WHAT WE NORMALLY SEE IN THESE BIG CRISES.

>> AND THE TRUE STORIES THAT HAVE TO BE TOLD.

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>> IT'S ALL THANKS TO THE SUPPORT OF VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU, AND STAY TUNED TO AMERICA'S MOST TRUSTED NETWORK.

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♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ >>> RENEE ALLEGRIA, I WAS LOOKING AT THE MUNDO HISPANICO WEBSITE TODAY.

AND ONE OF THE STORIES THAT CAUGHT MY ATTENTION RELATES TO ONE OF THE MOST CONTROVERSIAL DECISIONS THAT THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION MADE WHEN IT CAME TO IMMIGRANTS.

THEY ESTABLISHED A RULE WHICH SAID THAT IMMIGRANTS WHO ARE APPLYING FOR LEGAL STATUS IN THIS COUNTRY BUT WERE ALSO RECEIVING CERTAIN PUBLIC BENEFITS WOULD BE DENIED ADMISSION INTO THE COUNTRY.

AND THAT DID CAUSE A LOT OF CONTROVERSY OUT THERE.

THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION HAS NOT ENFORCED THAT RULE FOR QUITE SOME TIME.

NOW, THEY FORMERLY SAID WE ARE DOING AWAY WITH IT.

RENEE?

>> YEAH.

WE DID COVER THIS.

IT'S CERTAINLY BREAKING IN THE LAST 24 HOURS.

AND IT'S PART OF WHAT BIDEN IS DOING TO REVERSE A LOT OF PUSHBACK HE'S GOTTEN FROM, THE IMMIGRANT COMMUNITY WITH THE LACK OF COHESION WITH HIS IMMIGRATION POLICIES.

MANY HISPANICS VOTED FOR BIDEN SO THAT HE COULD REDO THE IMMIGRATION SYSTEM.

NOT MUCH HAS HAPPENED UNDER HIS WATCH.

THIS IS A STEP IN THAT DIRECTION.

SO THERE'S GOING TO BE A LOT OF HAPPY FOLKS OUT THERE, IMMIGRANTS THEMSELVES WHO ARE DIRECTLY AFFECTED BY THIS.

MUNDO REPORTS ON THIS ALL THE TIME.

BUT HOW FAR IS HE GOING TO GO?

THAT'S ALWAYS THE QUESTION THAT MANY HISPANICS, MANY IMMIGRANT ADVOCATES HAVE ABOUT REFORM.

IT'S A VERY COMPLEX ISSUE.

THE POLICIES ARE SO HEARTBREAKING AS THEY TOUCH FAMILIES, NOT JUST HISPANIC BUT FROM EVERY ETHNIC GROUP AROUND THE WORLD.

BUT THIS IS A STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION, AND HE IS BEING APPLAUDED FOR IT.

>> IT STRIKES ME, MY POLITICAL REWIND TEAM, THAT WE OUGHT TO THINK ABOUT IN WEEKS, MONTHS AHEAD DOING A SPECIAL SHOW ON WHERE IMMIGRATION STANDS RIGHT NOW.

IT IS CLEARLY ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT ISSUES IN THIS COUNTRY, AND CERTAINLY RIGHT HERE IN GEORGIA.

SO WE'LL THINK ABOUT DOING SOMETHING MORE ROBUST AROUND IMMIGRATION SOME TIME RELATIVELY SOON.

THE HATE CRIMES TRIAL OF THE THREE MEN WHO MURDERED AHMAUD ARBERY BEGAN THIS WEEK IN BRUNSWICK.

AND I THINK IT WAS DISTRESSING TO MANY OF US WHO LISTENED AS PERFECTS REVEALED TEXTS THAT PARTICULARLY TRAVIS McMICHAEL BUT CERTAINLY HIS DAD GREG AS WELL HAD SENT OUT IN WHICH THEY EXPRESSED THE DEEP HATRED THEY HAD FOR AFRICAN AMERICANS.

NOW WHETHER THEY CAN LINK THAT TO THE FACT THAT THAT'S WHY THEY KILLED ARBERY OR NOT IS STILL A CHALLENGE FOR THE PROSECUTORS.

BUT IT JUST REVEALS TO US THAT THERE IS STILL A SICKNESS IN THE SOUL OF SOME AMERICANS OUT THERE, YES?

>> YES, BUT I CAN'T SAY THAT I WAS SURPRISED BY THE THINGS THAT I HEARD ABOUT ARE THE THINGS THAT I READ.

ONE, I THINK THAT IT'S IMPORTANT TO KIND OF KEEP IN MIND THAT, LIKE, YOU DON'T GET TO THE POINT WHERE YOU'RE CHASING SOMEBODY DOWN THE STREET WHERE YOU CALL THE COPS AND THERE'S A BLACK MAN RUNNING DOWN THE STREET AND REPORT IT AS A CRIME.

AND SO WHILE I'M NOT A LAWYER AND WHILE I WANT TO LET THE PROSECUTION DO THE JOB THAT IT NEEDS TO DO AND LET THE DEFENSE HAVE THEIR SAY, I'M ALSO NOT SURPRISED THAT IN THE 21st CENTURY THAT THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE HOLDING THESE TYPE OF OPENLY OVERTLY RACIST POINTS OF VIEW.

THERE'S PUBLIC OPINION DATA THAT STILL SORT OF POINTED TO THE FACT THAT THERE WAS A SMALL BUT SIGNIFICANT MINORITY OF AMERICAN WHO'S STILL HOLD VERY, VERY RACIST VIEWS.

AND, SO, SADLY, THERE WAS NOTHING IN WHAT I'VE HEARD IN THE EVIDENCE FROM THE FEDERAL TRIAL THAT SURPRISED ME.

WHAT I LOOK FORWARD IS THE DAY WHEN I AM SURPRISED BY THIS.

BUT CLEARLY WE'RE NOT THERE, AND I KNEW THAT BEFORE THIS TRIAL STARTED.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

BUT IT'S JUST -- IT'S JUST SO AWFUL TO HEAR IT REVEALED IN SUCH STARK TERMS.

SO THE McMICHAELS HAD THESE REALLY DESPICABLE TEXT MESSAGES ABOUT BLACK PEOPLE.

BUT THERE WAS SOMETHING ABOUT RODDY BRYAN THAT WAS TROUBLING IN A WHOLE DIFFERENT WAY.

YESTERDAY THE JURY HEARD A CONVERSATION THAT HE HAD WITH A GWYNN COUNTY POLICE OFFICER.

SHOULD WE'VE BEEN CHASING HIM?

I DON'T KNOW, BRYAN CHUCKLED AS HE SPOKE WITH A GWYNN COUNTY POLICE OFFICER ON THE AFTERNOON OF THE KILLING.

HE REFERRED TO ARBERY AS THE BLACK GUY AND A JOKER AS ARBERY'S BODY LAY IN THE STREET.

WHEN I SEE HIM COMING AROUND THE CORNER RIGHT THERE, IT WAS ALMOST LIKE THE BLACK GUY WAS TIRED OF RUNNING.

THERE'S A CASUALNESS TO THAT THAT, TO ME, IS JUST TERRIFYING.

>> YES.

AND I THINK THAT IT REALLY IS THE INHERIT -- I CANNOT IMAGINE AHMAUD ARBERY'S MOTHER HEARING THAT AND SAYING HEARING A MAN WHO WAS PART OF KILLING HER SON TO SAY SHOULD I'VE BEEN DOING THAT?

I DON'T KNOW.

IT'S JUST STILL SO CASUAL, EVEN AFTER IT HAPPENED.

AND SAYING THIS TO THE AUTHORITIES.

THERE WAS NOTHING THEY WERE TRYING TO HIDE.

HE IS THE ONE WHO TAPED THE EVENT IN THE FIRST PLACE THAT EVENTUALLY LED TO THEIR CONVICTIONS.

SO, I THINK IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT FOR PEOPLE LISTENING TO THIS TO REALLY PAY ATTENTION TO THIS TRIAL.

OBVIOUSLY THEY'VE ALREADY BEEN CONVICTED ON THE MURDER CHARGES.

BUT TO SEE RACISM IN ALL ITS INFUSED THESE MEN'S PERCEPTIONS, IT IS ALMOST A LIFESTYLE FOR THEM.

THEY HAD ALL KINDS OF CONFEDERATE IMAGERY IN THEIR DAILY LIVES, ON THEIR TRUCK.

AND IT HAS COST ONE MAN HIS LIFE.

THAT HAS BEEN PRECEDED BY THOUSANDS, HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF BLACKS KILLED IN THIS COUNTRY, BROUGHT OVER AS SLAVES.

IT HAS NEVER STOPPED.

AND I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT FOR PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND THAT, YES, RACISM EXISTS, WE ALL KNOW THAT, BUT THIS IS WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE, AND THIS IS WHY IT IS STILL SO ACUTELY DANGEROUS.

>> THANK YOU FOR THAT.

I THINK YOU JUST SAID IT, WE ARE SEEING IT PLAYED OUT THE REAL FACE OF IT IN BRUNSWICK.

AND THAT IS A HARD THING.

AUNDRA?

>> AND I THINK THE THING THAT I WANT TO ADD TO THIS IS THAT WE HAVE TO COME TO GRIPS WITH THE FACT THAT THE McMICHAELS AND THE BRYANS OF THE WORLD ARE OUR NEXT DOOR NEIGHBORS.

THEY'RE NOT JUST THOSE CRAZY RED NECKS THAT LIVE OUT IN THE STICKS.

THEY'RE IN OUR NEIGHBORHOODS AND WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH IT AND WE CAN'T JUST DISMISS THIS AS JUST SORT OF DUMB, UNEDUCATED PEOPLE.

YEAH, THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE WHO MIGHT NOT USE THAT TERMINOLOGY, BUT YOU SAID OTHER THINGS OR YOU HAVE HEARD OTHER THINGS IN AND AROUND YOUR LIFE, AND THAT'S THE PART THAT MAKES THIS PRETTY PERNICIOUS.

>> AUNDRA, YOU GAVE ME AN OPENING TO TALK ABOUT A PERSONAL EXPERIENCE.

I MOVED TO GEORGIA, I'VE SAID THIS ON THE SHOW BEFORE, 1983.

THE LAST STORY I COVERED AS A POLITICAL JOURNALIST IN CHICAGO.

I WOULD GO WITH HAROLD INTO NEIGHBORHOODS ON THE NORTHWEST SIDE OF THE CITY WHERE PEOPLE WOULD THROW ROCKS AT HIM, WHERE THE RACISM WAS SO OVERT, IT WAS TERRIFYING.

AFTER THAT CAMPAIGN ENDED I ANNOUNCED THAT I WAS GOING TO COME DOWN TO ATLANTA TO GO TO WORK FOR WSB TV AS THEIR NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER.

AND MY FRIENDS IN CHICAGO SAID HOW CAN YOU GO TO THE RACIST SOUTH?

HOW CAN YOU MOVE TO THAT PART OF THE COUNTRY?

MY RESPONSE TO THEM WAS, DID YOU ALL JUST LIVE THROUGH THE SAME MAYOR'S RACE THAT I DID?

AND THAT GOES TO THIS NOTION THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.

IT'S OUR NEXT DOOR NEIGHBORS WHEREVER YOU LIVE IN THIS COUNTRY.

>> AND ANY SOCIOLOGIST COULD TELL YOU THAT CHICAGO IS THE MOST SEGREGATED CITY IN AMERICA.

THIS IS ALL OF OUR PROBLEM.

>> BY THE WAY, ON MONDAY WE'RE GOING TO DO A SPECIAL SHOW, AN HOUR SIT-DOWN CONVERSATION THAT I HAD WITH ANDY YOUNG.

AND ANDY YOUNG HAS TOLD ME MANY, MANY TIMES THAT HE WAS MORE AFRAID WHEN THEY MARCHED IN CICERO IN CHICAGO THAN ANYTHING THEY DID IN THE CIVIL RIGHTS DAYS HERE IN THE SOUTH.

ALL RIGHT, THAT'S MONDAY'S SHOW, BY THE WAY.

I HOPE YOU'LL WATCH IT BECAUSE WE GET A CHANCE TO REALLY TALK ABOUT HIS ENTIRE CAREER ON THAT SHOW ON MONDAY.

ALL RIGHT, PATRICIA, TERRY ENGLAND HAS ANNOUNCED THAT HE'S RETIRING.

NOW, TO A LOT OF PEOPLE OUT THERE BEYOND OUR CIRCLES AT THE CAPITOL, THAT DOESN'T MEAN A WHOLE LOT.

BUT WE KNOW THAT TERRY ENGLAND HAS BEEN A REMARKABLE FORCE IN THE GEORGIA HOUSE.

I MEAN, THIS IS THE APPROPRIATIONS CHAIR.

HE IS THE GUY WHO HAS TO GO THROUGH EVERY SINGLE LINE IN THE BUDGET.

HE'S GOT TO DEAL WITH THE NEEDS OF DISPARATE PEOPLE.

AND THE THING ABOUT TERRY ENGLAND IS HE'S HARDWORKING.

AND I DON'T KNOW ABOUT YOUR EXPERIENCE, PATRICIA, BUT I'VE ALWAYS FOUND HIM TO BE JUST A DECENT, LOVELY HUMAN BEING WITH A LOT OF RESPONSIBILITY.

PATRICIA?

>> YES.

ANY TIME THAT WE HAVE WANTED TO INTERVIEW HIM, ASK HIM QUESTIONS, HE'S INCREDIBLY ACCESSIBLE TO THE MEDIA, WHICH REALLY HELPS INFORM OUR REPORTING.

AND I KNOW THAT HE UNDERSTANDS THAT.

BUT HE ALSO INFORMS HIMSELF ON THE MONEY THAT THE STATE IS SPENDING.

AND SO HE WILL GO OUT AND VISIT STATE PRISONS.

HE'LL VISIT SCHOOLS, HE'LL VISIT ANY NUMBER OF DESTINATION WHERE'S THE STATE'S MONEY GOES.

AND, SO, IT SEEMS LIKE A VERY WONKY KIND OF INSIDE THE CAPITOL JOB, BUT IT HAS AN EFFECT ON EVERY SINGLE GEORGIAN'S LIFE.

TO HAVE SOMEBODY IN THERE WHO HAS NOT HAD SCANDAL, IT'S AN INCREDIBLY POWERFUL POSITION.

BUT ENGLAND IS REALLY TRUSTED BY DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS ALIKE IN THE CAPITOL.

AND THAT IS A QUALITY, I THINK, THAT'S GOING TO HAVE TO BE REQUIRED FOR THE NEXT CHAIR OF THE APPROPRIATIONS COMMITTEE.

>> DAVID RALSTON -- I APOLOGIZE FOR INTERRUPTING YOU.

DAVID RALSTON'S QUOTE ABOUT THIS.

I HAVE OFTEN SAID THAT OTHER THAN BEING THE SPEAKER, THE APPROPRIATIONS CHAIRMAN PUTS IN MORE TIME DURING THE INTERIM, IN OTHER WORDS, BETWEEN SESSIONS THAN ANYONE ELSE, I AM GOING TO MISS HIM BAD.

SO ARE A LOT OF US WHO HAVE COVERED HIM AS JOURNALISTS AND HAVE FOUND HIM TO BE ACCESSIBLE AND A DECENT GUY TO DEAL WITH.

WE WISH YOU WELL, TERRY ENGLAND, ALTHOUGH YOU GOT A BIG JOB AHEAD OF YOU TO FINISH THIS SESSION BEFORE YOU LEAVE.

WE'RE OUT OF TIME FOR TODAY'S "POLITICAL REWIND."

RENEE ALLEGRIA, THANK YOU SO MUCH, WE'RE ALWAYS GLAD TO HAVE YOU WITH US.

EVERYBODY READ "MUNDO HISPANICO."

IF YOU DON'T READ SPANISH, THAT'S OKAY, GOOGLE WILL TRANSLATE FOR YOU.

AND AUNDRA AND PATRICIA, WE'RE GLAD TO HAVE YOU HERE TOO.

I WANT TO THANK ALL THE PEOPLE WHO WORKED ON THIS SHOW.

YOU KNOW OUR TEAM AT "POLITICAL REWIND," JESSE, NATALIE, AND SAM.

BUT WHEN WE'RE DOING IT FOR TV, WE'VE BLOOD SUGAR GOT DENNIS BUCHANAN, JAMES TURNER, MATTHEW WOLFF WHO HELP PUT THIS SHOW TOGETHER.

SO THANKS TO ALL OF YOU FOR YOUR WORK IN BRINGING "POLITICAL REWIND" TO OUR LISTENERS AND OUR VIEWERS OUT THERE.

THAT'S IT FOR US TODAY.

AS I SAID, MONDAY'S SPECIAL SHOW ANDREW YOUNG IS ABOUT TO TURN 90.

HE IS A REMARKABLE INDIVIDUAL.

AND I AM VERY, VERY HONORED TO BE ABLE TO SAY THAT OVER THE MANY YEARS I'VE COVERED HIM, WE'VE GOTTEN TO BE GOOD FRIENDS.

THAT'S THE KIND OF CONVERSATION THAT ANDY AND I HAD AS WE SAT DOWN TO TALK ABOUT HIS LIFE AND CAREER.

I HOPE YOU'LL TUNE IN AND LISTEN TO IT ON MONDAY'S "POLITICAL REWIND."

THAT'S IT FOR US TODAY.

I HOPE YOU'LL TAKE CARE AND STAY HEALTHY.

SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.

♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ >>> A FIVE-MINUTE TALE ABOUT A LOVE THAT MADE YOU GO OUCH.

TELL US THE MISERY OF GOOD LOVE GONE BAD OR THE ANGUISH OF ONE-WAY LOVE.

YOU MAY GET TO TELL YOUR STORY FEBRUARY 21st AT 7:30.

PROOF OF VACCINATION REQUIRED FOR ENTRY.

GO TO THE MOTH.ORG FOR TICKETS AND MORE INFORMATION.

>> THIS IS GEORGIA PUBLIC BROADCASTING, STREAMING ONLINE AT GPB.ORG AND ON THE GPB RADIO APPS.