in the year 2021 renewable energy like from wind turbines makes up about 10 of the electricity generated in illinois the state also leads the nation in nuclear power but by the year 2050 environmentalists and some lawmakers want 100 percent of our power coming from clean and renewable sources we don't have 50 60 70 years to worry about climate change we need to worry about it today what effect will moving exclusively toward nuclear solar and wind have an estate that's had economic struggles and population loss from illinois public media this is the 21st at the capitol [Music] hello i'm brian mackey host of the 21st a midday talk show that can be heard monday through thursday on npr stations across illinois i'm also a long time former state house reporter and from time to time we're going to be taking our program from the radio to television to talk with illinois lawmakers and advocates about what they're doing in the capital and in virtual settings and how it might affect your life [Music] the effects of climate change are evident in illinois from more frequent storms and flooding to hotter summers putting a strain on farmland this year in springfield lawmakers are advancing at least six different proposals aimed at making the state's energy industry more green the clean energy jobs act aims to make illinois 100 reliant on clean and renewable energy by the year 2050. the path to 100 is a similar plan and supporters say it could create more than 53 000 jobs and the climate union jobs act would make sure nuclear power remains a big part of our energy infrastructure illinois leads the nation in nuclear power producing more than any other state there are currently six such plants but owner exelon says without state help they'll take some offline meanwhile coal mining has a long history in illinois and though most of the coal mined here is shipped to other states and overseas burning coal accounts for about a quarter of illinois energy production experts say climate change will bring more and more extreme heat days to illinois they say the power to shape that future lies in rethinking how those in the future get their power joining us now to talk more about energy and how it relates to climate and justice is gen walling executive director of the illinois environmental council in order to keep safe during the pandemic she joins me now remotely from her office in downtown springfield jen thanks for taking the time thanks so much for having me so let's start with the basics why does illinois need to move toward cleaner energy production and how quickly does it need to get there all of this with our need for clean energy is centered around the climate crisis we know that the climate crisis is not only hitting the united states but it's uniquely hitting illinois in a number of different ways whether it's the increased cost to our infrastructure whether it's increased flooding that impacts farm fields whether it's the increase in the number of endangered species we are having real economic human and public health impacts caused in illinois by the climate crisis not to mention that some of these dirty energy facilities have been causing other pollution effects whether it's metals or other toxic chemicals that have been impacting community communities throughout illinois during their entire life cycle we need to transition to clean energy we need to do it as quickly as possible and we need to do it in a way that maximizes economic development and infrastructure and i mean are we talking about solar panels on everyone's houses a windmill in every backyard and electric cars in every garage and parking space or is this more of a something that has to be done collectively with more you know the big power production facilities that will become uh not coal burning but instead you know getting their energy from the sun or the wind absolutely i think the way that this will impact an everyday illinois and will go from the technology that you are using whether it be smart technology to use less energy at different times to things like utility scale solar or wind programs in different places of the state or individuals who have solar panels on their homes electric vehicles and their cars increased energy efficiency all the way uh through residential and commercial buildings i think the impact in an illinoisian's life will be from individual actions all the way to big commercial scale so there are a lot of solutions that need to be involved here um and it'll be things that that people see and impact them in positive ways the illinois environmental council's proposal the clean energy jobs act it has equity as a key component can you talk more about what that means and and what that focus would look would look like sure so we're part of the illinois clean jobs coalition which is pushing the clean energy jobs act and even more important than renewable energy or decarbonization or electrification in the transportation sector is our equity jobs and workforce provisions we know that in illinois pollution facilities especially those pollution facilities that are very large are cited in black and brown communities low-income middle class black and brown communities if you look at maps that's where these facilities end up for the vast majority and despite that um those folks are still uh in it a minority of the population that's where we're putting our big heavy polluting facilities and so we need to make sure that we are centering the these programs on racial equity on economic equity so we're looking at programs that make sure that we can diversify the workforce trades labor has needed to diversify its workforce i know they're taking steps to do it but making sure that people who are in unions and labor really have a diverse set of people involved to contractors and people who own businesses so our bill not only goes from the workers but it looks at it looks at contractors that looks at entrepreneurship i mean we have just disinvested in black and brown communities through not providing the investment through not providing the capital to making sure that folks just because of their color of their skin didn't have access to loans and so making sure that we really supplement some of those inequities is really important but also there are people in the state who have had more of a pollution burden not only in those environmental justice communities but anywhere that there might be a coal plant or natural gas plant you're seeing communities that have been impacted in a disproportionate way by the pollution that has impacted their lungs and their public health so making sure that we are looking at a transition in those communities as the coal plants close i want to ask about some of the objections to the proposal though the clean energy jobs act cameron illinois which is the main utility electric and gas utility for a lot of central and southern illinois argues that that moving away from um they have a two-pronged uh critique i guess moving away from the uh you know capacity-based system we have could leave customers languishing in the heat or freezing in the cold like happened in texas they also argue that the clean energy jobs act benefits chicago customers at the expense of those downstate in part by focusing on sort of individual smaller scale solar projects rooftop and community solar as they're known as opposed to larger scale problem projects how do you respond to those critiques well we are asked often how we're paying for the renewable energy right and our system really looks at capacity market reform and that's what's different than the other bills that are out there capacity market reform in illinois is incredibly important from the perspective of fossil fuel subsidies when we look at illinois we're spending nearly 1.7 billion dollars on capacity which is more than any other state and capacity is just having a power uh source exist um and so you know you compare us to texas and you brought up texas and texas has an energy on demand market they pay nothing for capacity and they also have no regulation that is not where we want to go but in illinois illinois consumers are paying 20 to 30 percent of their electricity bill on capacity just having the plant exist which means 1.7 billion dollars for fossil fuel subsidies the coal plant that is in waukegan in an environmental justice community that residents do not want there because of its pollution impacts is not marketable it only exists because we are paying capacity payments for it to be online so we should be taking some of those one that 1.7 billion dollars and using it towards sources of energy that are not emitting carbon that are cleaner sources that are located within the state so that is a proposal that we have for uh how we pay for much of our renewable energy system taking those subsidies for fossil fuels and moving them around and it is an essential part of the bill is this this capacity market reform to remove these coal subsidies so incredibly important i also don't think in terms of disadvantaging downstate i i don't think that's accurate i think that in terms of the way that we put the bill together there are folks from all over the state who are going to want distributed generation when you look at things like community solar and the first round of community solar only 15 of the projects were picked and none of them were in cook county the vast majority of them were suburban or downstate areas and i think you'll continue to see that in terms of the market effectiveness of utility scale solar we're going to have to leave it there jen walling is executive director of the illinois environmental council jen thanks so much for being with us today yeah no problem thank you so much coming up we're going to hear from a state senator who is sponsoring another piece of legislation on energy with nuclear at its core stay with us news moves fast and so does your schedule keep up with the 217 today podcast weekday mornings it's 10 minutes packed with the latest news and weather from the wiol team plus one deeper dive into agriculture education health and topics across illinois download the 217 today podcast from illinois public media your source for quality trusted journalism [Music] welcome back to the 21st at the capitol i'm brian mackey we've taken our weekday radio show to television to talk about lawmaking and how it affects the people of illinois joining us now for another perspective on the energy debate is state senator mike hastings he's a democrat from frankfurt in the south suburbs of chicago and a lead sponsor of the climate union jobs act senator hastings thanks for joining us brian thanks for having me it's an honor to be uh serving the people of illinois and also serving as the chairman of the energy committee for the state so senator hastings one of the main uh focuses or what would you say foci of your legislation is maintaining the state's nuclear capacity and the union jobs that service those nuclear power stations can you talk about just in a general way can illinois reach its clean energy goals without nuclear in your view first of all you know brian my primary responsibility is to ensure the lights turn on for every american resident across the state of illinois when that doesn't happen we have big problems and a lot of it comes down to reliability and ensuring that the grid is is a highly performing grid and that we don't fall prey or succumb to the some of the issues that we've seen across the country whether that's the rowing blackouts in l.a in california or as a result of violent weather in texas i think we've seen what can happen when the energy doesn't work the way it's supposed to but i sponsored the climate jobs illinois bill which focuses on investing not only in our nuclear fleet but our clean energy future in illinois we just heard from a member of the clean jobs coalition not to be confused with climate jobs illinois which is backing your proposal can you talk about how your legislation is different and in your view i presume better than the clean energy jobs legislation i don't necessarily think my bill is better than any other piece of legislation what i will say is that the the points in the in the legislation that are in there are part of a foundation that i think we can build upon all of the bills that are submitted and there's six substantial bills that deal with investing in illinois clean energy future um i i do believe that there's merits in each one of those that can be compiled into what i consider an omnibus built but i will tell you that there are some key points that i will advocate for and for good reason number one is preserving our nuclear fleet an additional renewable generation is essential because when two nuclear plants close and potentially fork close based on some of the announcements from from exelon the economic impact that that creates for the state in a negative in a negative stance is is is not what we need when we're coming off a coveted pandemic number one people need to get put back to work these jobs employ thousands and thousands of hard-working trained skilled union members and non-union members at the same time and so it's important that we preserve those jobs the economic impact that these plants have if you look at byron alone that plant powers two point some million homes the economic impact from tax revenues sales tax from people coming and going working at the plant is in the in the millions and millions of dollars and when you look at the aggregate total these plants the economic impact is in the billions of dollars that is what we do not need in the state of illinois we need to make sure that we preserve our nuclear fleet and that we also invest in additional renewable generation so it can create those jobs that's one major provision of it and for our folks that have coal plants across the state of illinois you know coal plants are shutting down for economic reasons not because the state is pushing a regulation on them to say you have to close however there are some proposals out there that do suggest that but i will say that part of my plan is to create what they call a just transition how do we invest in clean energy while utilizing the plant itself that's being shut down i want to make sure the workers of those plants are retrained i want to make sure the property tax base that those plants is preserved and it's transitioned so that when you shut down a plant it just doesn't close the town because again we're coming off a pandemic and we want to make sure that these towns some of them are small towns we want to make sure that they they are they're able to maintain um a normal course of business and that they're able to incentivize other businesses to come to their towns how do you respond to people who say that this is you know it's one thing to say you want to preserve the jobs and preserve the the clean energy generated by the plants but it's another thing to line exelon shareholders pockets and that's not what illinois needs to be doing especially after the same company was before the legislature just a few short years ago seeking assistance at that time and getting it at that time i'm going to tell you that that is not the intent whatsoever and anyone who says that this is a general assembly way of lining some corporate barons pockets is a bunch of garbage i want to be very strong when i say that because in my when i when i presented the clean union or the climate eating jobs act before my committee the illinois state senate energy committee i said a few different things number one is that these hard workers at these nuclear plants and other plants across the state of illinois they have a passion for what they do it's in their blood and at times that it's passed down from generation to generation they come from every walk of life they love their profession they love the communities and what they work for but i i made this very very explicit their passion their hard work and profession will not and should not be overshadowed by a dark cloud cast over by a greedy few so when we pass this legislation it will be balanced and it's not going to agree it's not going to line anyone's pockets for that matter and we're going to hold people accountable for their bad actions that's my goal as the chairman of the senate energy committee and that's what the people of illinois deserve we have been talking with state senator mike hastings he's a democrat from frankfort senator hastings thank you for your time frank god bless you and your family and i hope everyone watching is is happy and most importantly healthy all right thank you senator coming up we're going to hear from the path to 100 as in 100 renewable energy that's coming up after a short break stay with us monday through thursday the 21st state is talking our small role hospitals we have limited beds but it's also limited staff in my years of running you know i've been called inward been heckled our most recent project focused on women livestock farmers join the conversation about illinois listen to the 21st monday through thursday at 11 a.m on will am 580 6 pm on fm 90.9 or anytime at twentyfirstshow.org [Music] welcome back to the 21st at the capitol i'm brian mackey as you know we're taking our daily radio program and bringing it to television to cover some of the issues that illinois lawmakers and advocates are working on and how it affects you and joining us now for another perspective on the energy debate is jonathan feipel he is a spokesman for the path to 100 another of the clean energy proposals under consideration in springfield he's also a former executive director of state government's utility regulator the illinois commerce commission and he joins us now from his residence in springfield jonathan thanks for making time for us thanks much brian for having me it's great so governor jb pritzker as you know as we've talked about on this program has committed illinois to having 100 renewable energy by the year 2050 we're supposed to be a quarter of the way there by the year 2025 how are we doing on that you know and it's a really it's a great question and it's one that dates back to the you know origin story of the illinois rps back to 2007 given a whole slew of different problems and hitches with the law and implementation we never really got to developing our renewable base here in the state right we used to pull renewable credits from around us from other states and that's what the future energy jobs act that kicked in about five years ago really did a a great overall policy shift to make sure that we were focusing on building new projects here in the state what we're able to do in that five-year period there and think about it as one series of programs right because it took our illinois power agency some time to get all the new mandates in place we jumped from about three percent in-state renewables to about over eight percent in that one series of programs the trouble is if you think about it on the back end we really what we did was we crammed 10 years of pent up demand for renewables into that one series of programs so now we're out of money so at this point in time given the budget constraints illinois is going to flat line out there at about eight percent renewables for five years or so and then we'll have this kind of boom bust lumpy development cycle going forward we'll never really get to those bigger lofty goals um and that's what the path 100 act is really designed to do by the renewable industry to get us back on track to be able to meet those kind of targets and some people have referred to this as the solar cliff briefly can you talk about what that means in terms of jobs in the development of the renewable industry sector in illinois you know that and that term has really caught on what we were talking about was if you think about the the kind of the canary in the coal mine for the renewable industry right is the the women and men who work in the solar industry in particular the smaller the company the more susceptible they are to layoffs and bankruptcy and the like and we've been projecting out two years ago when we introduced the legislation that there at the end of 2020 was when the last dollar was going to be available for new development and that got tagged as the quote solar cliff because at that point in time you're going to move past the point where a budget could function and that's when there's real hardship if you think about we built up about 5500 jobs in the solar industry up to the end of 2019 and we lost about 3 500 in the last year given the budget crisis exacerbated by kobit certainly but but the budget is the real driver there as the cliff has kicked in now and i'm afraid our time is short so briefly what is the vision of the future of the path to 100 as the group is called uh in terms of because there has been criticism that some of the the past developments and that it focused too much on what's called rooftop or community solar as opposed to you know bigger more centralized energy projects where does your group see the future of clean energy development with regard to solar and wind in illinois going forward it's a great question because it's really important to note that what we need to have in the state is a balanced mix of all of the different project types yes you need big utility scale wind and solar projects we absolutely support those in our bill but you also have to have community solar and rooftop solar to provide those direct customer benefits right you put solar panels on your rooftop you save money on your bill every month if you don't have access to your own rooftop you can subscribe to a community solar project again for direct bill savings and what we find and we're going to be releasing some reports here in the near future that show that actually if you maintain that mix of direct overall bill savings through community solar rooftop solar all of the big utility scale projects for overall price reductions to energy market prices all of these renewables in essence pay for themselves when you combine up all of those benefits and there's actually net savings to all customers in illinois my final question to you is more of a sort of a big picture philosophy question i got to imagine some people are listening to this and saying why not just let the market handle power and why is it important in your view and your group's view to have the government you know put its put its uh thumb on the scale of how illinois sources its energy and actually what we're trying to do is have the the market in essence drive a lot of this discussion around renewable energy the key is though is that for 100 years we've never really had any way to value the clean energy benefits of renewable energy for example you know when a coal plant emits all of the different um pollution types uh the healthcare benefit you know the health care problems that result um the the dirtiness that has to get cleaned up in other ways polluted water and all that renewables don't have any of those problems we need to find a way to value that piece and that's what the overall government policy is set to do we've been talking with jonathan feipel he's a spokesperson for the path to 100 which is one of the multiple energy groups uh making their voices heard in the general assembly this spring jonathan thanks for being with us today on the 21st thanks this was great tell us what you think about what you just heard about the future of energy in illinois send an email to talk at 21st show.org we might read your message on our radio program which airs monday through thursday at 11 am on wil am 580 and npr stations across illinois for all of us at illinois public media i'm brian mackey thanks for joining us [Music] [Music] 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