>>> THANK YOU ALL FOR JOINING US FOR ANOTHER EDITION OF "POLITICAL REWIND."

WE ARE ON SO MANY PLATFORMS RIGHT NOW IT'S HARD FOR ME TO KEEP TRACK OF IT.

MANY OF YOU ARISENING TO US LIVE AS WE DO OUR SHOW AT 9:00.

SOME OF YOU ARE LISTENING TO THE SHOW AT 2:00 IN THE AFTERNOON WHEN WE REPEAT EACH DAY'S SHOW, BUT WE ARE ALSO RIGHT NOW ON FACEBOOK LIVE.

MANY OF YOU OVER THE YEARS ENJOYED WATCHING THE SHOW ON FACEBOOK AND WERE THERE ON FRIDAYS SO YOU CAN CHECK US OUT THERE AND FINALLY, PERHAPS AT 7:00 ON FRIDAY NIGHT AND YOU'RE WATCHING US ON GPB TV ACROSS THE STATE FROM GEORGIA.

HOWEVER YOU'RE WITH US, WE'RE VERY GLAD YOU ARE AND WE'RE VERY HAPPY TO WELCOME OUR PANEL FOR TODAY'S SHOW.

THEY INCLUDE PATRICIA MURPHY, YOU READ PATRICIA'S COLUMN, "THE POLITICAL INSIDER" ON WEDNESDAYS AND SHE OVERSEES THE JOLT ON JJC.COM, A GREAT COLLECTION OF NEWS ON POLITICS AVAILABLE EVERY DAY AND UPDATED THROUGHOUT THE DAY.

PATRICIA, THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE, OF COURSE.

ASK I START BY JUST VERY QUICKLY, I GOT A CHANCE IT LOOK AT YOUR SUNDAY COLUMN WHICH IS POSTED ONLINE.

SOME PEOPLE WON'T READ UNTIL THE NEWSPAPER.

IF YOU DON'T MIND, I THOUGHT IT WAS AN INTRIGUING IDEA.

JUST GIVE US WHAT YOU'RE WRITING ABOUT.

>> THANK YOU, BILL.

FOR OUR SUNDAY COLUMN I TOOK CONSTITUTIONAL CARRY WHICH REPUBLICANS ARE CALLING THEIR PROPOSAL TO ELIMINATE THE DEPARTMENT TO HAVE A PERMIT TO HAVE A CONCEALED WEAPON IN GEORGIA BECAUSE VOTING IS ALSO A CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT, I SUGGESTED THAT GEORGIA MIGHT WANT TO CONSIDER HAVING THE SAME LAWS THAT ARE APPLYING TO GUNS WHICH LOOK LIKE THEY'RE ABOUT TO BE LOOSENED AND YOU CAN APPLY THOSE SAME LAWS TO THE OTHER CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT THAT WE TALKED SO MUCH ABOUT WHICH WAS VOTING AND EVERYTHING FEELS A LOT DIFFERENT AND PEOPLE CAN READ IT AS AJC.COMAL READY AND WE CAN POST A LINK TO IT ON OUR PLATFORM, AS WELL.

AGAIN, THANKS FOR BEING HERE, PATRICIA.

WE ARE JOINED ALSO BY ANDRE GILLESPIE, DIRECTOR OF JAMES JOHNSON FOR THE STUD OF RACE AND DIFFERENCE AT EMORY UNIVERSITY AND WE ARE ALWAYS HAPPY TO SEE YOU ON THE SHOW TODAY.

>> I'M GOOD.

THANKS FOR HAVING ME ON THE SHOW TODAY.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

RENE ALEGRIA IS WITH MUNDO HISPANICO.

I HAVE TO APOLOGIZE.

I USUALLY GET A CHANCE TO CHECK OUT THE HOMEPAGE AND WHAT'S BIG IN THE MUNDO HISPANIC O.

TODAY?

>> THANK YOU.

IT'S ALL ABOUT THE JOBS REPORT.

I THINK WE'RE ALL WAITING FOR IT, YOU KNOW, THE LABOR INDICATION OF HOW THAT'S GOING TO AFFECT THE ECONOMY IS ON EVERYBODY'S, YOU KNOW, TOP OF MIND AND SO WE'RE JUST WAITING FOR IT TO COME OUT, AND I BELIEVE IT JUST DID, SO THAT'S WHAT'S ON OUR PAGE.

>> OH, GOOD.

I HAVEN'T SEEN THE REPORT YET, AND WE'LL CHECK IT OUT AND GIVE THE NUMBERS AT SOME POINT DURING THE SHOW.

BY THE WAY, YOU CAN LOOK AT MUNDO HISPANICO, IF YOU'RE LIKE ME AND DON'T READ SPANISH WHAT'S NICE ABOUT GOOGLE IS IT TRANSLATES IT FOR YOU WHICH I APPRECIATE A GREAT DEAL.

PATRICIA, LET'S GET STARTED.

WE HAVE AN UPDATE ON THE McMICHAEL-RODDIE BRYANT ONGOING MURDER CASE.

WE KNOW ALL THREE OF THEM WERE ALREADY CONVICTED OF MURDER OF AHMAUD ARBERY, BUT THE FEDS LAST WEEK TO PLEAD GUILTY TO HATE CRIMES IN EXCHANGE FOR A GUARANTEED 30-YEAR SENTENCES IN FEDERAL INSTITUTIONS RATHER THAN A STATE PRISON WHERE THEY WILL BE GOING AS A RESULT OF THE CONVICTIONS IN THE STATE CASE.

THE JUDGE REJECTED IT.

SHE REJECTED IT IN RESPONSE TO VERY EMOTIONAL PLEAS FROM AHMAUD ARBERY'S MOM ESPECIALLY AND FATHER, AS WELL SAYING NO, NO.

WE NEED TO GO FORWARD.

WE NEED THEM TO BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR THE RACISM THAT LED TO THE DEATH OF OUR SON.

>> AS A RESULT OF THAT, THE JUDGE GAVE THEM AN OPPORTUNITY, THE McMICHAELS WHO SAID THEY WOULD GO ALONG WITH THIS PLEA DEAL TO DECIDE WHETHER THEY WANTED TO WITHDRAW THEIR GUILTY PLEA.

SO WHERE WE STAND TODAY IS THAT GREG McMICHAEL HAS, IN FACT, SAID NO.

I NOW WITHDRAW MY GUILTY PLEA.

I WANT TO GO FORWARD WITH THE MURDER.

WE DON'T KNOW YET AS OF THIS MORNING WHAT TRAVIS McMICHAEL MIGHT DO.

ALL OF THIS IS TO SAY THAT MONDAY MORNING IT LOOKS LIKE WE'LL HAVE THE START OF A FEDERAL HATE CRIMES TRIAL FOR AT LEAST ONE OF THE DEFENDANTS.

DO I HAVE THAT RIGHT?

>> YES.

ALL OF THAT IS THE WAY IT HAPPENED, AND THAT WAS SO IMPORTANT FOR AHMAUD ARBERY'S FAMILY AND IT WAS NOT JUST THE FACT THAT THE TWO McMICHAELS WERE ABLE TO CHOOSE THE NATURE OF THEIR INCARCERATION, BUT THAT THERE WOULD BE NO PUBLIC AIRING AND NOTHING HEARD OF THE FACTORS OF RACISM AS A PART OF A HATE CRIMES TRIAL.

THE STATE TRIAL WHICH DID FIND THEM GUILTY OF MURDER AND OTHER LAWS THAT THEY BROKE DID NOT GET INTO RACIAL MOTIVATION AND MOTIVATED BY HATE AND THAT WAS DELIBERATELY DONE BY LOCAL PROSECUTORS BECAUSE OF THE NATURE OF THE CHARGES AGAINST THEM, BUT TO HEAR THAT EVIDENCE IN COURT, TO UNDERSTAND WHAT TRULY MOTIVATED THE McMICHAELS I THINK IS VERY IMPORTANT TO THE ARBERY FAMILY FOR THE REST OF THE COUNTRY TO HEAR IT'S SUCH A HIGH-PROFILE CASE AND SO PERSONAL AND IT'S AN IMPORTANT INFLEXION POINT FOR UNDERSTANDING THE CONNECTION THINK THE JUDGE TOOK ALL OF THAT INTO ACCOUNT AND ESPECIALLY THE FAMILY'S WISHES AND AS A RESULT, THAT TRIAL, THAT PUBLIC TRIAL AND THE PUBLIC AIRING WILL BE ON MONDAY.

>> ANDRA, THE PROSECUTOR, THE FEDERAL PROSECUTORS BELIEVED IF YOU HEAR THE STATEMENTS THAT THEY HAD ACCOMPLISHED SOMETHING MEANINGFUL THAT THEY WOULD GET GREG AND TRAVIS McMICHAEL, RODDIE BRYANT WAS SEPARATE FROM THIS.

TO ADMIT IN OP COURT THAT THEIR MURDER OF AHMAUD ARBERY WAS MOTIVATED BY RACIAL HATRED AND THEY FELT IT WAS AN IMPORTANT BREAKTHROUGH AND THE PROBLEM IS ESPECIALLY WANDA COOPER JONES, HIS MOTHER SAID NO, WE CAN'T ABIDE BY THIS.

GIVE US YOUR THOUGHTS ON THE DIFFERENCE WITH A TRIAL AS THIS WILL ALL BE AIRED AS OPPOSED TO A GUILTY PLEA?

>> THE BIG ISSUE LEAR IS WHAT THE McMICHAELS GOT IN EXCHANGE FOR ADMISSION OF GUILT.

I DON'T THINK ANYBODY IS OBJECTING TO THEM ADMITTING THAT THEY WERE RACIALLY MOTIVATED IN TARGETING AND IN KILLING AHMAUD ARBERY, BUT THE ISSUE IS THAT THEY WOULD ALMOST GET REWARDED FOR ADMITTING IT WAS THAT THEY WOULD GET TO DO THEIR FIRST 30 YEARS IN FEDERAL PRISON WHICH IS PRESUMED TO BE NICER, AND I'M NOT ASSUMING HERE THAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THEM ENDING UP IN CLUB FED OR ANYTHING LIKE THE PRISONS SAY THAT MARTHA STEWART OR FELICITY HUFFMAN WERE IN.

IT PROBABLY WOULD HAVE BEEN IN A MUCH MORE MAXIMUM SECURITY TYPE OF SITUATION, BUT IT'S THE IDEA THAT THESE GUYS BY ADMITTING TO A LOT OF PEOPLE GET REWARDED BY THEIR PERCEIVED BETTER LIVING CONDITIONS AND IT'S A WHITE PRIVILEGE THAT I THINK WAS OFFENSE OF TO THE ARBERY FAMILY.

THIS IS NOT A JUSTIFICATION FOR PRISONERS BEING KEPT IN POOR CONDITION, BUT IF YOU'VE COMMITTED A HEINOUS CRIME LIKE THAT, YOU DON'T GET TO DICTATE WHERE YOU SERVE YOUR SENTENCE AND YOU DON'T DO THAT IN THIS CASE AND THAT'S WHAT THE ARBERY FAMILY FOUND TO BE PARTICULARLY OFFENSIVE.

>> THAT'S WHAT THE FEDERAL JUDGE SAID.

SHE SAID, LOOK, I AM NOT GOING TO ALLOW YOU IN A PLEA DEAL TO TIE MY HANDS AND TELL ME, DICTATE TO ME WHAT MY SENTENCE OF THESE TWO SHOULD BE.

I WANT THE LATITUDE TO MAKE MY OWN DECISION ABOUT THAT MOVING FORWARD, RENE.

>> IT'S INTERESTING THE TIMING, WE ARE ALMOST EXACTLY TEN YEARS FROM TRAYVON MARTIN AND LOOK AT WHAT THAT DID TO THE NATION IN TERMS OF OUR FOCUSING ON RACE RELATIONS, LAW ENFORCEMENT.

GOING THROUGH ANOTHER TRIAL DOES MANY THINGS AND IT HIGHLIGHTS HOW HORRIFIC THIS ALL WAS FOR THE ARBERY FAMILY AND WHAT HAPPENED TO THAT POOR KID, AND IT IS ANOTHER GUT CHECK.

THIS IS IMPORTANT TO THE COUNTRY AND WE MUST LOOK AT THE DETAILS AS UNCOMFORTABLE AND AS UGLY AS THEY ARE.

WE HAVE TO GO THROUGH THIS, TO COME OUT A BETTER COUNTRY, SO IT WILL BE INTERESTING WHAT THE STAKES ARE AGAIN.

IT'S ON MONDAY, BUT ULTIMATELY, YOU KNOW, SO MANY APPLAUDED WHAT THIS JUDGE DID.

>> ALL RIGHT.

WE'LL WATCH IT AS IT MOVES FORWARD.

ONCE AGAIN, WE'LL HAVE A HUGE JURY POOL IN AN EFFORT TO FIND 12 PEOPLE WHO ARE ABLE TO PASS A SENTENCE FAIRLY UNJUSTLY IN THIS CASE, AND WE SHOULD POINT OUT THAT THERE ARE ANY NUMBER OF CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEYS WHO HAVE SAID, THEY THINK THESE ARE VERY HARD CHARGES TO PROVE THAT HATE CRIMES TRIALS ARE OFTEN VERY DIFFICULT, SO WE'LL WATCH AND SEE HOW IT MOVES FORWARD STARTING NEXT WEEK.

>> PATRICIA, LET'S TALK ABOUT THE LEGISLATURE.

YOU KNOW, WITH ALL OF THE HOT-BUTTON ISSUES THAT ARE FLOATING AROUND UNDER THE GOLD DOME DOWNTOWN RIGHT NOW, IT DOES STRIKE ME INCREASINGLY THAT WHEN WE LOOK BACK ON THE 2022 SESSION, WE ARE LIKELY TO SAY, OH, THAT'S THE SESSION IN WHICH POLITICAL EFFORTS TO DETERMINE THE COURSE OF EDUCATION AND STATE SCHOOLS WERE THE DOMINANT FACTOR IN THE SESSION.

DO YOU THINK I HAVE A POINT THERE?

>> I THINK YOU DEFINITELY HAVE A POINT THERE.

I DON'T THINK IT'S A COINCIDENCE THAT THIS IS HAPPENING IN THE GEORGIA LEGISLATURE IN 2022.

IT IS AN ELECTION YEAR FOR THE GOVERNOR AND IT'S ALSO THE YEAR AFTER VIRGINIA HAD ITS OWN ELECTION WHERE THAT NEW REPUBLICAN GOVERNOR DID SEE EDUCATION ISSUES AND BECAME A HUGE FLASH POINT IN THAT RACE AND THEY WEREN'T EXPECTING IT TO AND JUST BECAUSE OF THE WAY EVENTS WERE UNFOLDING AND SCHOOLS WERE CERTAINLY THE FOCUS OF VOTERS, THAT ENDED UP SEEMING TO MAKE THE DIFFERENCE AND THAT RACE FOR VIRGINIA GOVERNOR AND YOU'RE NOT JUST SEEING THAT IN GEORGIA, BUT ACROSS THE COUNTRY, EFFORTS TO REPLICATE THAT VICTORY WITH THAT SET OF ISSUES AND THAT WOULD GO WITH BANNING CRT EVEN THOUGH IT'S NOT TECHNICALLY CAUGHT IN GEORGIA SCHOOLS TO CHANGES TO HIGH SCHOOL SPORTS IN TERMS OF WHICH GENDERS CAN COMPETE IN WHICH SPORT.

THERE WILL BE ANY NUMBER OF ISSUES AND GOVERNOR TEMP HAS SIGNALLED THAT HE WANTS TO SIGN SOMETHING CALLED A PARENTS' BILL OF RIGHTS WHICH GIVES PATIENTS THE RIGHT TO KNOW AND ASK FOR AND REQUEST AND RECEIVE WITHIN THREE DAYS A SPECIFIC TYPE OF CURRICULUM THAT THEIR KIDS ARE BEING TAUGHT.

SO IT IS A HUGE FOCUS ON SCHOOLS, ON SOCIAL ISSUES UNDERNEATH THOSE SCHOOLS.

TO ME IT'S IRONIC BECAUSE WE KNOW SCHOOLS ARE STRUGGLING SO VERY MUCH TO GET KIDS CAUGHT UP AFTER THE HUGE AMOUNT OF LEARNING LOSS DURING COVID WHICH IS STILL GOING ON IN SCHOOLS AND A LOT OF KIDS ARE STILL OUT TWO WEEK, THREE WEEKS AT A TIME.

IT IS SO HARD FOR KIDS TO CATCH UP AND THAT IS WHAT I SEE AS THE CRISIS IN GEORGIA SCHOOLS, IN MY OPINION AND THERE WAS AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT FOCUS IN THE STATE CAPITOL.

>> RENE, WE TALK ON THIS SHOW QUITE A BIT THAT THERE'S AN EFFORT TO BAN THE SO-CALLED CRITICAL RACE THEORY.

WE KNOW IT'S NOT TAUGHT IN GEORGIA PUBLIC SCHOOLS AND WE'VE TALKED ABOUT OBSCENE MATERIALS AND THESE ARE BOTH BILLS THAT ARE LIKELY TO MOVE FORWARD, BUT RENE, NOW WE HAVE FINALLY THE FORMAL INTRODUCTION YESTERDAY OF A BILL THAT GOVERNOR KEMP TOUTED IN HIS STATE OF THE STATE SPEECH WHICH IS A SO-CALLED PARENTS' BILL OF RIGHTS.

HERE'S HOW THE AJC'S LEAD IS.

PARENTS WOULD HAVE TEXTBOOKS AND OTHER INSTRUCTIONAL MATERIALS USED IN THEIR CHILDREN'S PUBLIC SCHOOL CLASSROOMS UNDER LEGISLATION OF GOVERNOR KEMP.

KEMP SAID WEDNESDAY THE NEW GEORGIA LEGISLATION IS INTENDED TO INCREASE TRANSPARENCY AND PARENT INVOLVEMENT IN SCHOOLS.

RENE, ONE OF THE THINGS I HAVE NOT READ THE LEGISLATION, BUT THE QUESTION IS GOING TO BECOME TO WHAT EXTENT, PARENTS WILL HAVE A RIGHT TO DEMAND THAT THEY CAN SEE THE CURRICULUM AND THE BOOKS THAT STUDENTS WILL BE READING AND STUDENTS WILL HAVE MY UNDERSTANDING OF THE BILL, LIKE THREE DAYS TO PRODUCE MATERIAL AND PARENTS WILL HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO GO TO THE SCHOOL BOARD, THEIR OWN SCHOOL BOARD, PERHAPS THE STATE'S SCHOOL BOARD AND OBJECT.

THIS IS OPENING, IT STRIKES ME, A TERRITORY THAT WE JUST HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THE CONSEQUENCES ARE GOING TO BE.

>> I AGREE.

IT'S ALARMING AND TO SEE THE WEAPONIZATION OF OUR KIDS' EDUCATION PLAY OUT RIGHT IN FRONT OF US SHOULD SEND SHIVERS DOWN THE SPINES OF EVERY PARENT.

THIS PARENT BILL OF RIGHTS IS JUST ANOTHER SMOKE AND MIRROR TACTIC TO RILE UP AND CONFUSE PARENTS FROM WHAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT.

PARENTS ALREADY HAVE RIGHTS.

THEY'VE NEVER BEEN CUT OUT OF THE EDUCATION PROCESS AND IS WELCOME TO GET AS INVOLVED AS THEY WANT AND THIS WHOLE THING IS DESIGNED TO FURTHER CARVE OUT A CULTURE WAR FOR THE GOP TO MAKE POLITICAL GAINS AND THEY ARE PLAYING POLITICS AND FOLKS SHOULD BE UPSET ABOUT THAT.

KIDS ARE MUCH MORE AFFECTED BY SCHOOL SHOOTINGS THAN WHETHER THEY'RE BEING TAUGHT THESE SO-CALLED DEVICE OF SUBJECTS.

I SAW THIS POWERFUL INSTAGRAM POST BY DAVID HOG WHERE HE POINTED OUT, AND I'LL READ IT TO YOU.

YOU KNOW HOW MANY KIDS AND STAFF BOOKS KILLED AT MY HIGH SCHOOL?

ZERO.

YOU KNOW HOW MANY KIDS AND STAFF A FORMER STUDENT KILLED WITH AN AR-15?

17.

I THINK THAT GEN-Z IS FEELING SO MUCH FEAR AND ANXIETY JUST TO PIGGYBACK ON WHAT PATRICIA SAID OVER COVID CLIMATE AND THESE SCHOOL SHOOTINGS.

WHY AREN'T PARENTS AND POLITICIANS UP IN ARMS ABOUT THESE ISSUES?

IF YOU ASK KIDS ABOUT WHETHER THEY'D PREFER TO WEAR MASKS OR HAVE THEIR PARENTS CHIME IN WITH A BILL OF RIGHTS WITH A NANNY CAM WHICH IS PART OF WHAT THE BILL OF RIGHTS, BILL OF PARENTS' RIGHTS INCLUDED AND THEY PICKED WHATEVER THEY WANTED TO READ?

>> ANDRA?

>> I THINK THERE ARE A LOT OF DIFFERENT ELEMENTS TO THE STORY THAT ARE REALLY IMPORTANT.

SO, FIRST, IF PARENTS ARE INVOLVED IN THE SCHOOL YOU DON'T NEED TO DEMAND THE SCHOOL CURRICULUM.

YOU SHOULD BE GOING THROUGH THEIR BACKPACK EVERY DAY AND LOOK AT WHAT THEY'RE DOING IN SCHOOL.

YOU NEED TO ASK YOUR CHILD WHAT THEY'RE DOING IN SCHOOL AND USUALLY THE ANSWER IS I DON'T REMEMBER, AND I DON'T THINK YOU NEED TO NECESSARILY GO TO THIS AND I DON'T THINK THERE IS NECESSARILY A PROBLEM WITH TEACHERS POSTING MATERIALS.

MOST OF THE TIME GOOD TEACHERS ARE IN REGULAR COMMUNICATION WITH THE FAMILIES THAT THEY TEACH AND BY THE TIME YOU GOAT HIGH SCHOOL THERE ARE CLASSES WHERE YOU CAN LOOK AND SEE EXACTLY WHAT IT IS THAT THEY'RE TEACHING.

IN MANY CASES THIS IS EXCESS.

THE QUESTION THAT I HAVE IS -- LET'S JUST SAY I AM THE PARENT AND I SEE MY KIDS' SOCIAL STUDIES CURRICULUM AND THE SOCIAL STUDIES PH.D WHICH MEANS I PROBABLY KNOW MORE THAN THE TEACHER AND I'M, LIKE, THIS IS WRONG, RIGHT?

BECAUSE IN THE HISTORY BOOK YOU REFER TO SLAVES LIKE, YOU KNOW, INVOLUNTARY OR UNPAID WORKERS OR SOMETHING ALONG THOSE LINES AND I'M, LIKE, I OBJECT TO THAT PARTICULAR LANGUAGE.

ARE YOU GOING TO TAKE MY STATEMENT SERIOUSLY AND GET RID OF THE BOOKS YOU SPENT MILLIONS OF DOLLARS ON?

I'M COMING FROM A POSITION OF POWER AND HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN TO THE PARENT WHERE TWO PLUS TWO IS FIVE, THANK YOU FOR YOUR CONCERN AND YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, WE REGISTERED THE CONCERN, BUT WE'LL CONTINUE TO DO WHAT WE DO.

I THINK THAT'S OPENED UP A PANDORA'S BOX ABOUT WHO WE LISTEN TO AND WHAT EXPERTISE MATTERS IN THIS CASE WHICH SPEAKS TO SOMETHING LARGER ABOUT HOW WE'RE DEVALUING EXPERTISE AND THE CODE OF INTELLECTUAL STRAINS THAT ARE A PART OF IT.

THE FINAL THING THAT I WOULD TALK ABOUT IN TERMS OF BOOK BANNING AND I WILL DISCLOSE, I'M AN EVANGELICAL RAISED IN AN EVANGELICAL HOME, AND THERE WERE CLASSES THAT I WAS PULLED OUT OF AT SCHOOL.

I WAS PULLED OUT OF SEX ED AND IT WAS ALWAYS DONE WITH GIVE ME AN ALTERNATE PROJECT.

SO IF THERE WAS SOMETHING GOING ON I HAD TO DO SOMETHING ELSE TO COMPENSATE FOR IT.

IT WAS NEVER, LET'S JUST BURN THE WHOLE THING DOWN AND GET EVERYTHING BANNED.

I COME FROM THE WING OF AMERICAN EVANGELICALISM THAT'S NOT TOO KEEN ON HARRY POTTER BECAUSE WE THINK IT'S TOO OCCULTISH.

IF I HAD A THEME IN SCHOOL AND HARRY POTTER WAS THE ASSIGNMENT YOU WOULD ASK FOR ANOTHER ASSIGNMENT TO ACCOMMODATE OUR BELIEFS AND THE SAME THING APPLIES TO BOOKS ABOUT SEXUALITY IN PARTICULAR, BUT ALSO BOOKS ABOUT RACE AND THEN SO IF YOU REALLY OBJECT THAT MUCH, RIGHT?

COME UP WITH SOMETHING DIFFERENT FOR ME TO DO, BUT DON'T SURPRISE EVERYBODY ELSE OF THE OPPORTUNITY TO BE EXPOSED TO THESE THINGS AS MUCH AS I AGREE WITH PEOPLE PROTECTING THEIR KIDS FROM SOME TYPE OF INFORMATION BECAUSE IT'S UNCOMFORTABLE.

>> ANDRA MAKES A GOOD POINT.

YOU CAN LOOK AT WHAT YOUR CHILDREN ARE LEARNING AT SCHOOL.

IT'S RELATIVELY EASY TO DO.

SHE'S SUGGESTING TO ASK YOU WHAT'S IN THEIR BACKPACKS, FOR INSTANCE.

THE PROBLEM BECOMES THE FLASH POINT THAT BOARDS OF EDUCATION ACROSS THE COUNTRY HAS BECOME, HOW HIGHLY CHARGED POLITICAL ISSUES HAVE BECOME AND IT STRIKES ME, PEN AMERICA WHICH IS A FREE SPEECH ORGANIZATION, AND YOUR COLLEAGUE IN THE HHC SAYS THEY HAVE TOUTED MORE THAN 100 BILLS IN MORE THAN 30 STATES THAT LIMIT WHAT CAN BE TAUGHT AND SCRUTINIZED CLASSROOMS IN WAYS THAT SCHOOLS WOULD HAVE CHILL-FREE DISCUSSION.

THAT'S THE QUESTION.

HOW MUCH OF THIS IS GOING TO BECOME ABOUT THE POLITICS OF WHAT'S TAUGHT IN SCHOOL RATHER THAN I DON'T LIKE THIS NEW MATH YOU'RE TEACHING AND MY CHILD ISN'T ABLE TO GET THROUGH TO IT, AND IT DOESN'T WORK FOR THEM.

>> I, THAT WHENEVER YOU SEE AN ISSUE THAT IS HAPPENING SIME YOU WILL THAINIOUSLY IN 30 STATES THAT ISSUE HAS BEEN POLITICIZED.

IT'S BY GOVERNOR KEMP AND THE ENTIRE LEADERSHIP OF THE LEGISLATURE WHICH IS ELECTED SCHOOL BOARD MEMBERS AND THEY'RE THERE TO BE THE ELECTED REPRESENTATIVES FOR STUDENTS, TEACHERS, PARENTS TO TALK ABOUT CURRICULUM, TO TALK ABOUT ANY KINDS OF CHANGES IN THE CLASSROOM.

AS A PARENT, WE HAVE TWO-WAY COMMUNICATION WITH THE TEACHERS AND THERE ARE ENORMOUS AMOUNTS OF TECHNOLOGIES THAT ALLOWS TEACHERS TO POST LESSON PLANS AND HOMEWORK SO PARENTS AT HOME CAN ACCESS THAT VERY QUICKLY AND EASILY.

IF THERE'S A PROBLEM PEOPLE WILL TYPICALLY GO TO THE TEACHER AND RAISE IT ON UP.

IF THERE IS A STATEWIDE SOLUTION FOR A PROBLEM THAT I DON'T THINK HAS BEEN PROVEN I THINK YOU'RE GETTING INTO MURKY TERRITORY THAT WILL HAVE A LOT OF UNATTENDED CONSEQUENCES AND THIS IS ONE THING INTRODUCED IN ONE ADMINISTRATION.

THAT STARTS TO LOOK A LOT LESS APPEALING AND IT'S IMPORTANT PARTICULARLY WHERE KIDS IN SCHOOLS ARE CONCERNED AND EMPOWER PARENTS WHO HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT, AND ARE SMALL-SCALED SOLUTIONS FOR THIS.

ESPECIALLY BECAUSE I'VE SEEN NO DATA AND VERY LITTLE ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE THAT THIS IS A PROBLEM AT ALL.

>> BEFORE WE LEAVE THE SUBJECT ENTIRELY, ANDRA, WAS THERE A CHILLING ARTICLE IN "THE WASHINGTON POST" YESTERDAY.

WE'LL TALK ABOUT IT MORE IN-DEPTH ON MONDAY'S SHOW BECAUSE WE HAVE A LOT OF OTHER TOPICS TO GET TO TODAY, BUT IT FOCUSED ON GEORGIA.

IT FOCUSED ON WHEN HAMILTON HOLMES AND CHARLENE HUNTER WERE THE FIRST AFRICAN-AMERICANS ACCEPTED INTO THE UNIVERSITY OF GEORGIA, AND IT TALKS HOW IN 1961 TEACHERS AT STATE UNIVERSITIES WERE VERY NERVOUS ABOUT TEACHING ANYTHING ABOUT CIVIL RIGHTS THAT THEY KNEW THEIR JOBS COULD BE JEOPARDIZED.

IN FACT, THERE WERE EXAMPLES OF PEOPLE LOSING JOBS FOR PROMOTING CIVIL RIGHTS AND TALKING ABOUT CIVIL RIGHTS AND ONE PROFESSOR AT THE UNIVERSITY, NOT A PROFESSOR OF POLITICAL SCIENCE.

I FORGET THE DISCIPLINE, BUT A SCIENCE, ASKED HIS STUDENTS TO WRITE THEIR FEELINGS ABOUT CHARLENE HUNTER AND HAMILTON HOLMES BEING ADMITTED AND THE RESPONSES WERE ALL -- THEY WERE ALL WHITE STUDENTS AND THE ANSWERS WERE ALL INCREDIBLY RACIALLY CHARGED.

WE THINK NEGROS ARE OF A LOWER MORAL STANDING THAN WE ARE.

OUR WOMEN CAN'T BE SAFE ON CAMPUS AROUND THEM, AND THE ARTICLE SUGGESTS, AN OPINION PIECE, CLEARLY, THAT IT'S BECAUSE THERE'S NO -- THERE WAS NO TEACHING OR ATMOSPHERE THAT ALLOWED FOR TEACHING THAT IT CONTINUED WHAT THESE STUDENTS LEARNED IN THEIR FAMILY'S HOMES.

>> THIS YEAR IS THE 50th ANNIVERSARY OF THEIR MATRICULATION INTO THE UNIVERSITY OF GEORGIA.

YEAH.

WHEN YOU HAVE PEOPLE WHO ARE TAUGHT THINGS LIKE THIS, RIGHT?

THERE'S A LOT OF REMEDIATION THAT HAS TO HAPPEN AT THE COLLEGIATE LEVEL TO GIVE PEOPLE A MORE WHOLESOME VIEW OF HISTORY.

THEY TEACH CLASSES ON RACE AND I START OFF WITH IN MY QUOTE, UNQUOTE, GENETIC STREAK BECAUSE OF THE ERA THAT WE'RE IN NOW.

I WANT TO BE CLEAR THAT I DON'T WANT TO MALIGN PEOPLE OR TELL PEOPLE THAT YOU CAN'T BE CONSERVATIVE, BUT WE HAVE TO OPERATE FROM THE SAME PLACE OF FACTS.

SO FACTS ARE NOT BIOLOGICALLY INFERIOR TO ANYBODY, FACTS, SLAVERY, JIM CROW WAS HELPED TO CREATE A CAST SYSTEM THAT WAS ERODED BY GETTING RID OF SLAVERY AND THERE ARE ALL THESE THINGS WE CAN SIT AND TALK ABOUT.

IF AFTER YOU LEAVE MY CLASS YOU WANT TO WALLOW IN YOUR IGNORANCE, YOUR GRADE WILL PROBABLY REFLECT THAT, BUT IF YOU STILL HOLD CONSERVATIVE VIEWS ON THESE ISSUES IT WASN'T MY JOB TO INDOCTRINATE HERE AND THAT WASN'T THE GOAL OR THE AIM HERE, RIGHT?

SO IF YOU, YOU KNOW, ARE WILLING TO DO THAT, YEAH.

IT MAKES MY JOB HARDER.

THERE ARE THINGS I SHOULDN'T HAVE TO TEACH IN MY SORT OF SURVEY OF AFRICAN-AMERICAN POLITICS CLASS ABOUT SLAVERY BECAUSE THEY SHOULD HAVE LEARNED THAT IN HIGH SCHOOL, BUT ALL THAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN IS NOW I'M GOING TO HAVE TO START INTRODUCING WHAT I WOULD CONSIDER TO BE BASIC CONTENT FOR 17 AND 18-YEAR-OLDS AT THIS POINT, BUT THAT'S THE MISSION OF EDUCATION.

>> THANK YOU FOR THAT.

I HAVE TO GET RIGHT TO A BREAK.

WE'LL BE BACK WITH MORE IN JUST A MINUTE.

♪♪ ♪♪ >>> PATRICIA MURPHY AT THE AJC ARE JOINING ME FOR THE SHOW TODAY.

PATRICIA, WE DEAL WITH THIS RELATIVELY QUICKLY.

THERE'S NOT BEEN A SESSION OF THE LEGISLATURE THAT I CAN RECALL IN RECENT YEARS WHERE THERE HAVEN'T BEEN EFFORTS TO PASS A VOUCHER BILL TO EXPAND PRETTY DRAMATICALLY HOW PUBLIC FUNDS CAN BE USED TO SEND STUDENTS TO PRIVATE SCHOOLS.

WE HAVE A LIMITED VOUCHER PROGRAM RIGHT NOW, BUT AS LONG AS WE'RE TALKING EDUCATION, LET'S JUST TALK ABOUT THE FACT THAT THIS YEAR WE'VE GOT NOW TWO BILLS THAT WOULD OFFER THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS FOR A PARTICULARLY LOWER INCOME STUDENTS AND FAMILIES TO SEND THEIR KIDS TO PRIVATE SCHOOLS AND ALTHOUGH THESE EFFORTS USUALLY DON'T GO ANYWHERE, I WONDER IF UNDER THE POLITICAL CLIMATE WE'RE DEAL BEING WITH TODAY THERE'S MORE CHANCE THEY WILL.

>> IT'S NOT JUST THE POLITICAL CLIMATE.

IT HAD TO DO WITH PARENTS' OWN EXPERIENCE IN THE LAST TWO YEARS.

THERE WAS A REALLY PATCHY REACTION TO COVID IN A LOT OF DIFFERENT SCHOOLS.

SOME SCHOOLS STAYED OPEN AND WERE ABLE TO BE OPEN OR CHOOSE TO BE OPEN MUCH LONGER AND OTHER SCHOOLS WERE CLOSED FOR MORE THAN A YEAR IN A ROW AND PARENTS DIDN'T HAVE THE ABILITY TO GET THEMSELVES OUT OF THAT SITUATION IF THEY DIDN'T FEEL LIKE THEY HAD A WAY TO PRIVATE SCHOOLS, LARGELY, WERE IN SESSION THROUGHOUT THE LAST YEAR.

SO I THINK THAT IS THE ONE DIFFERENCE IN THIS CONVERSATION.

THERE WAS A SITUATION THAT NOBODY ANTICIPATED AND A LOT OF PARENTS FELT LIKE THEY DID NOT HAVE THE TOOLS TO CHANGE THEIR CHILDREN'S CIRCUMSTANCES IF THEY WANT TO.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN WITH THESE TWO BILLS, BUT I DO THINK THAT'S CERTAINLY GOING TO BE AND HAS BEEN PART OF THE CONVERSATIONAL READY.

THE SAME POLITICAL DYNAMICS WILL BE AT PLAY AND THE SAME ARGUMENT WHEN YOU TAKE PUBLIC MONEY AND PUBLIC EDUCATION THAT MAKES IT WORSE FOR ALL OF THE STUDENTS INVOLVED IN IT AND THERE'S A SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT DYNAMIC HERE AND THAT IS BY PARENTS' OWN EXPERIENCE ACROSS THE STATE.

SO I KNOW THAT LAWMAKERS ARE GETTING MORE INTO THIS AND WITH DIFFERENT ARGUMENTS THAN THEY'VE HEARD BEFORE AND THAT COULD CERTAINLY CHANGE THE DYNAMIC BECAUSE THE ENVIRONMENT, AS YOU SAID, IS REALLY CHARGED WHEN IT COMES TO EDUCATION ISSUES, I THINK THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WE'RE CERTAINLY WATCHING.

>> RENE, THE ARGUMENT AGAINST THIS, OF COURSE, AND PATRICIA REFERRED TO IT IS WHAT YOU'RE ESSENTIALLY DOING HERE IS THE STATE, OF COURSE, HAS A PER-PUPIL FUNDING RATIO.

A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF MONEY FOR EACH STUDENT GOING TO SCHOOLS UNDER LEGISLATION BEING PROPOSED NOW AND OTHER BILLS BEFORE IT.

YOU TAKE THAT MONEY WHICH IS, I THINK, 60-SOME HUNDRED DOLLARS RIGHT NOW AND IT TRANSFERS WITH THE STUDENT TO THE PRIVATE INSTITUTION THE STUDENT WANTS TO GO TO AND IT TAKES MORE MONEY OUT OF THE PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM AND THERE'S ANOTHER INTERESTING ASPECT TO THIS, RENE, AND THAT IS YOU'VE GOT THESE BILLS THAT ARE ABOUT BANNING BOOKS AND NOT TEACHING CRITICAL RACE THEORY.

THE TEACHERS MAY ALREADY FEEL THAT THEY'RE UNDER A CERTAIN ASSAULT AND NOW UNDER SOMETHING LIKE THIS TEACHERS HAVE ALWAYS OPPOSED VOUCHERS AND BRIAN KEMP WIN TEACHER'S SUPPORT FOR RE-ELECTION AND THESE ARE THE TYPES OF ISSUES THAT COULD WORK AGAINST HIM AND THE POLITICS OF IT AND THE REALITY OF WHAT HAPPENS TO PUBLIC SCHOOLS WHEN YOU HAVE VOUCHERS.

>> JUST FROM THE LAST SEGMENT AND THE DISCUSSION OVER TEACHING TEACHERS, I MEAN, YOU HAVE TO FEEL REALLY BAD FOR TEACHERS RIGHT NOW IN THAT THEY'RE REALLY IN A TOUGH, TOUGH SPOT.

I HAVE FRIENDS WHO ARE TEACHERS AND THEY'RE BURNED OUT.

THEY CAN'T WIN WITH THE PARENTS AND THEY CAN'T EFFECTIVELY TEACH.

WHAT IS THE HONOR AND PROTECTION THAT THEY SIGNED UP FOR AND THAT'S UNFORTUNATE, YOU KNOW?

IN PARTICULAR WITH THIS VOUCHER BILL.

PARENTS ARE ALREADY SAYING THAT THE $6,000 IN THE BILL ISN'T ENOUGH TO PAY FOR A PRIVATE TUITION AND MOST PRIVATE SCHOOLS IN GEORGIA MEANING IT WOULD BASICALLY ACT AS A SUBSIDY FOR MORE AFFLUENT PARENTS ALREADY MAKING THAT CHOICE WHILE STILL LOCKING OUT POOR PARENTS.

THE SOUTHERN EDUCATION FOUNDATION AND NINE OTHER ORGANIZATIONS SENT A LETTER THAT IT DIVERTS RESOURCES AWAY FROM PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEMS IN NEED AND LEAVING MANY OF GEORGIA'S MOST VULNERABLE STUDENT POPULATIONS WITH DIMINISHED EDUCATION OPPORTUNITIES.

AND YOU KNOW, NO ONE WANTS THAT.

GEORGIANS DON'T WANT THAT.

I THINK IT'S PRETTY SAFE TO SAY THAT A BETTER GEORGIA IS A BETTER EDUCATED ONE ACROSS THE BOARD, GETTING THERE THROUGH THE POLITICAL LAND MINES OF THIS LEGISLATURE IS GOING TO BE DIFFICULT.

>> ALL RIGHT.

WE SEEM TO HAVE A THEME HERE.

LET'S CONTINUE IT FOR A COUPLE OF MINUTES AND LET'S TALK ABOUT PATRICIA.

IT SEEMS LIKE IT'S BEEN SIX MONTHS OR MORE SINCE WE WERE REALLY COVERING WITH SOME INTENSITY THE POSSIBILITY THAT SONNY PURDUE WAS GOING TO BECOME THE CHANCELLOR OF GEORGIA.

BEEN ACCREDITATION ORGANIZATION SAID IF A POLITICIAN GETS A JOB THE UNIVERSITY SYSTEM OF GEORGIA COULD LOSE ITS ACCREDITATION AND THEN IT ALL SEEMED TO QUIET DOWN FOR QUITE A WHILE, AND WE DIDN'T SEE MUCH NEWS ABOUT IT.

IT'S BACK AGAIN, PATRICIA BECAUSE GOVERNOR KEMPER ALTERED THE SHAPE OF THE BOARD OF REGENTS.

HE'S PUT PEOPLE HEADED TO THE SUPPORTERS OF HIS AND EVEN THOUGH SONNY PURDUE'S COUSINS WERE RUNNING AGAINST HIM FOR GOVERNOR AND SONNY PURDUE IS WITNESS AGAIN A PRIME CANDIDATE FOR THIS SHOT.

>> YEAH.

THERE IS A WILD POLITICAL STORY THAT WILL BE A PART OF THIS NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS BECAUSE DAVID PURDUE HAS CHALLENGED BRIAN KEMP AND THE GOP FOR GOVERNOR WITH THE OFF THE WALL DECISION THAT WAS MADE.

ALL PURDUES ARE OFF THE TABLE, THEY'RE ALL NONGRATA, AND SONNY PURDUE HAS LONG HAD A RELATIONSHIP WITH BRIAN KEMP THAT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH DAVID PURDUE.

HE MAY HAVE SEEN MORE OF BRIAN KEMP THAN DAVID PURDUE, SONNY PURDUE APPOINTED KEMP AS SECRETARY OF STATE BEFORE HE RAN FOR RE-ELECTION.

PURDUE WAS A HUGE BOOSTER FOR KEMP WHEN VERY FEW PEOPLE WERE AND SO BRIAN KEMP AND THE TWO OF THEM ALSO GET ALONG EXTREMELY WELL AND KEMP LIKES PURDUE AND THINKS PURDUE WOULD DO A GOOD JOB AND SO JUST WEIRD, POLITICAL DYNAMIC IN THE BACKGROUND HAS ALSO MADE IT IMPOSSIBLE NOT TO NOTICE THAT SONNY PURDUE HAS NOT SAID A WORD ABOUT HIS OWN COUSIN CHALLENGING BRIAN KEMP IN THE PRIMARY.

SO IT'S CREATED THE SITUATION THAT THE FACT THAT HE'S NOT OFF THE TABLE AND HE'S ALSO LIKELY TO BE DOING A FORMAL INTERVIEW WITH THE BOARD OF REGENTS COMING UP HERE SO IT'S VERY MUCH ALIVE.

IT IS NOT BRIAN KEMP'S DECISION TO MAKE THAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO NOTE, BUT IT IS THE DECISION OF A NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO HE HAS APPOINTED TO THE BOARD AND ONE THE GOVERNOR HAS APPOINTED YOU TO THE BOARD WE CAN ASSUME THAT YOU'RE ALIGNED ON A LOT OF ISSUES ESPECIALLY THE LEADERSHIP OF THE UNIVERSITY SYSTEM.

THERE IS A TON BEHIND THE SCENES.

AND OF COURSE, THE STUDENTS WHO PROTESTED AND OTHERS WERE CONCERNED THAT SONNY PURDUE WERE SO SIGNIFICANTLY ALIGNED FOR REPUBLICAN CONSERVATIVE VALUES AND HAS SAID AT LEAST ON ONE OCCASION THAT HE WAS CONCERNED ABOUT THE POLITICS AND THE UNIVERSITY AND THE PORE LIBERAL TRENDS OF TEACHING.

>> YOU KNOW, HERE YOU ARE PROTECTED IN A LOVELY PRIVATE EDUCATIONAL INSTITUTION, ONE OF THE FINEST IN THE COUNTRY.

YOU DON'T HAVE TO DEAL WITH A BOARD OF REGENTS OR THE IS CHANCE LOR, BUT CERTAINLY YOU MUST BE THINKING ABOUT THE COLLEAGUES IN THE UNIVERSITY SYSTEM.

>> THE OBJECTION TO PURDUE IS NOT THAT HE'S A REPUBLICAN, IT'S THE FACT HE DOESN'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT HIGHER EDUCATION AND THIS IS MY COMPLAINT ABOUT THE BOARD OF REGENTS AND SORT OF ABOUT SOME OF THESE CHANCELLOR SHIPS.

YOU NEED SOMEBODY IN THE ROOM WHO HAS HAD EXPERIENCE WITH HIGHER EDUCATION ON THE OPPOSITE SIDE OF EARNING ONE'S DEGREE.

SO YOU HAVE TO BE MORE THAN A STUDENT IN ORDER TO BE EFFECTIVE IN LEADERSHIP AND I WOULD OBJECT TO JUST ABOUT ANY POLITICIAN THAT DIDN'T COME FROM A BACKGROUND IN EDUCATION HAVING A CHANCELLOR POSITION, AND WE'VE SEEN PLACES WHERE POLITICIANS HAVE BEEN AT CAPACITY AND UNIVERSITY PRESIDENT AND IT'S BEEN DISASTROUS AND IT'S NOT JUST REPUBLICANS.

SO WE SEE THE TENSIONS THAT THEY HAD WHEN HE WAS PRESIDENT OF KENNESAW STATE FOR THE SAME REASONS HERE.

WE CAN LOOK AT BOB KERRY, FORMER SENATOR OF NEBRASKA WHO WAS PRESIDENT OF THE NEW SCHOOL.

THAT DIDN'T WORK OUT EITHER, RIGHT?

THAT ISN'T A PART OF THE SAME THING.

THEY HIRE THESE FOLKS THINKING THEY'RE RAINMAKERS BECAUSE THEY'RE USED TO FUND-RAISING, BUT YOU HAVE TO DO MORE.

WHILE FUND-RAISING IS A BIG PART OF THE JOB, THERE IS MORE THAT GOES ON THERE IN TERMS OF LEADERSHIP AND YOU NEED TO HAVE USE OF THE FACULTY WHO DO RUN THE PLACE IN ORDER TO BE EFFECTIVE IN THESE POSITIONS.

>> RENE, WEIGH IN ON THIS.

>> IT'S A BIT SHAKESPEAREAN, ISN'T IT?

>> PURDUE IS KEMP'S MORTAL ENEMY AND ANOTHER IS KEMP'S SELECTED POLITICAL TOOL TO MAKE THE OTHER LIFE'S HELL AND IN THE PROCESS, ALL OF GEORGIA'S EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM MAY SUFFER.

I THINK IT'S UNIVERSAL TO ECHO WHAT ANDRA SAID THAT PURDUE IS NOT QUALIFIED TO BE CHANCELLOR OF THE EDUCATION SYSTEM.

STAFF, STUDENTS ARE OPPOSED TO PURDUE WHEN HE FIRST SHOWED INTEREST LAST SPRING AND THE SOUTHERN ASSOCIATION OF COLLEGES SENT A LETTER WARNING THE SYSTEM COULD BE FOUND OUT OF COMPLIANCE AND IN THE PROCESS OF MAKING THE NEXT LEADER POLITICIZED.

IT CLEARLY IS.

WELL, SURPRISE, SURPRISE, POLITICS AT ITS FINEST OR WORST DEPENDING ON WHO YOU ASK.

>> OKAY.

LET'S DO THIS.

LET'S GET TO OUR FINAL BREAK IN THE SHOW.

SINCE WE'VE TALKED ABOUT DAVID PURDUE AND BRIAN KEMP, LET'S DIG DEEPER INTO NEW DEVELOPMENTS INTO THE CAMPAIGN BETWEEN THE TWO OF THEM.

WE'LL DO THAT AND TALK ABOUT A FEW OTHER MEASURES THAT ARE UNDER WAY DOWN AT THE CAPITOL THAT I THINK ARE WORTH GETTING INTO THE SHOW, AS WELL.

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>> WE'RE BACK WITH "POLITICAL REWIND."

LET ME TURN TO THE GUBERNATORIAL RACE FOR A COUPLE OF MINUTES HERE.

WE KNOW THE OTHER DAY DAVID PURDUE RELEASED HIS FIRST TV COMMERCIAL NOTABLE BECAUSE HE WAS BARELY IN IT AT ALL AND THERE WAS A PHOTOGRAPH OF HIM WITH DONALD TRUMP AND IT WAS AN INTO THE CAMERA ENDORSEMENT OF DAVID PURDUE BY DONALD TRUMP.

A VERY FORCEFUL ENDORSEMENT AND CONDEMNATION OF RYAN KEMP.

I SAID ON THE SHOW THAT WE LIKE TO PLAY COMMERCIALS ON THE SHOW UNLESS THERE'S SOMETHING EXCEPTIONAL ABOUT THAT AND THERE WAS AN EXAMPLE ABOUT THEM AND WE SHOULD SEE HOW THEY'RE LEADING WITH DONALD TRUMP AND WITH THE BRIAN KEMP COMMERCIAL WHO JUST CAME OUT, PATRICIA, WHICH IT COUNTERS THE PURDUE AD AND THE TRUMP ENDORSEMENT BY INVOKING DONALD TRUMP IN A RATHER POSITIVE WAY AND THEN ATTACKING DAVID PURDUE ON THE BASIS OF WHAT TRUMP SAYS.

LET'S SEE THAT OR LISTEN TO THAT COMMERCIAL RIGHT NOW.

>> PRESIDENT BIDEN WORKED HARD PUTTING AMERICA FIRST.

>> I'M GOING TO BRING JOBS BACK FROM CHINA, BUT DAVID PURDUE SENT AMERICAN JOBS TO CHINA.

OVER AND OVER AGAIN, BY THE THOUSANDS AND MADE MILLIONS.

WHEN ASKED TO DEFEND IT, PURDUE SAID -- >> DEFEND IT?

I'M PROUD OF IT.

THAT'S DAVID PURDUE, PUTTING HIMSELF FIRST AND AMERICA LAST.

SO, PATRICIA, TALK ABOUT THE HIGH-WIRE ACT.

YOU INVOKE DONALD TRUMP WHO IS YOUR SWORN ENEMY TO ATTACK DAVID PURDUE, HIS CANDIDATE FOR GOVERNOR.

>> IT'S A PERFECT ILLUSTRATION OF THIS REALLY UNIQUE SPOT THAT BRIAN KEMP IS IN AND WE'LL HAVE TO SEE IF HE'S ABLE TO FINESSE IT AND THEN AN AD LIKE THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT HE NEEDS TO BE DOING AND HE -- EVEN THOUGH DONALD TRUMP HAS DECLARED HIM A SWORN ENEMY, BRIAN KEMP HAS NOT DECLARED DONALD TRUMP A SWORN ENEMY AND THAT'S A VERY IMPORTANT THING FOR HIM TO BE AWARE OF, BECAUSE EVEN THOUGH DONALD TRUMP HAMMERS BRIAN KEMP DAY IN AND DAY OUT, THAT IS NOT A TWO-WAY STREET.

FIRST OF ALL, IT'S QUITE CONSERVATIVE.

THERE MAY NOT BE THAT MANY POLICY ISSUES THAT HE DIFFERED WITH WITH PRESIDENT TRUMP.

HE CAN'T AFFORD TO LOSE A SINGLE DONALD TRUMP VOTER.

THIS IS A 50/50 STATE AND THEY'RE DONALD TRUMP SUPPORTERS.

SO HE NEEDS TO MAKE IT OKAY FOR THOSE DONALD TRUMP SUPPORTERS TO SUPPORT HIM EVEN THOUGH WE ALL KNOW WHY PRESIDENT TRUMP IS NOT SUPPORTING BRIAN KEMP.

HE NEEDS TO GIVE THOSE REPUBLICAN VOTERS PERMISSION TO STILL BE LOYAL TO TRUMP AND FIND A WAY TO SUPPORT HIM AS WELL AND THAT IS BY HIM PRAISING DONALD TRUMP IN THE PROCESS.

RENE AND ANDRA, WHY DON'T YOU GO AND THEN ANDRA.

IT'S A TOUGH, TOUGH ACT TO PULL OFF, IT SEEMS TO ME.

WE'VE ALREADY LEARNED THAT IT'S HARD TO CRACK DONALD TRUMP AND TRUMP VOTERS.

WE'LL HAVE TO WAIT AND SEE HOW THAT UNFOLD, RENE.

>> YEAH.

WHEN YOU'RE DEALING WITH DONALD TRUMP, I THINK IT'S SAFE TO SAY THAT ANYBODY WHO HAS IS -- HAS BEEN BURNED.

YOU'RE PLAYING WITH FIRE AND LOOK AT WHAT HAPPENED WITH LINDSAY GRAHAM AND TRUMP ATTACKING LINDSAY GRAHAM AFTER LINDSAY GRAHAM HAS BACKED TRUMP UP FOR THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS ALIENATING SO MANY OF HIS VOTERS IN HIS HOME STATE.

IT MAKES YOU THINK OF THE FABLE OF THE FROG SWIMMING ACROSS THE RIVER WHERE THE SCORPION ASKED THE FROG FOR A RIDE AND IF THE FROG AGREES TO BETTER JUDGMENT AND THEN THE SCORPION ENDS UP STINGING THE FROG AND THEY ASK HIM AND THE SCORPION SAYS IT'S IN MY NATURE.

IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN HERE, AS WELL.

>> ANDRA, YOU WANT TO WEIGH IN, ANDRA?

>> OH, SURE.

I'M HAPPY TO HEAR YOUR QUESTION.

THERE ARE A COUPLE OF THINGS AT PLAY.

ONE, THERE IS DONALD TRUMP AND TRUMPISM.

AND THE REPUBLICAN PARTY DOESN'T LOOK LIKE IT IS 100% MOVED AWAY FROM DONALD TRUMP AND WITNESS THEY DO, TRUMPISM IS A FORCE TO BE RECKONED WITH WITHIN THE PARTY AND WHAT BRIAN KEMP IS DOING AND NOT ONLY IN THIS, AND ALSO WHAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT IN THE LAST SEGMENT WITH THE BOARD OF REGENTS IS HE'S BEING SOMEWHAT DEEP.

HE HAS A GENERAL ELECTION TO THINK ABOUT IF HE INTENDS TO BE SUCCESSFUL HERE.

AS FAR AS THE PRIMARY STRATEGY, HE DOES HAVE TO APPEAL TO SOME TRUMP VOTERS IN ORDER TO HAVE A VIABLE CANDACY AND HE DOES WANT TO EMBRACE TRUMPISM EVEN THOUGH DONALD TRUMP IS PERSONALLY REJECTING HIM AND HE WANTS TO LEAVE RAJ HIS DEEP KECKS AND NETWORKS IN THE STATE WHICH ARE LONGER LASTING AND DEEPER THAN DAVID PURDUE AND IS STILL A RELATIVELY NEW POLITICIAN IN THE STATE AND HE'S SHOWING THAT INDEFINITELY WITH HIS REGION APPOINTMENTS ARE AND ALSO ASSUMING THAT HE HAS HIM OUT OF THE PRIMARY, HE IS GOING TO NEED ALL OF THOSE REPUBLICAN VOTERS AND HE DOESN'T WANT TO ALIENATE THEM AND HE HAS A DONALD TRUMP STRATEGY AS THOUGH IT WOULD WIN RIGHT NOW AND IT WOULD NEVER HELP IN THE GENERAL ELECTION AND DONALD TRUMP STILL HOLDS A LOT OF THE LEAD.

>> OKAY.

PATRICIA, A LOT OF POLITICAL COVERAGE THAT WE DO HERE ON "POLITICAL REWIND" THAT YOU DO IN THE AJC IS FOCUSED ON REPUBLICANS RIGHT NOW BECAUSE THEIR PRIMARY CONTESTS ARE PURDUE AND KEMP BEING THE PRIMARY EXAMPLE OF THAT AND THE SENATE RACE BEING ANOTHER, BUT LET'S TALK ABOUT STACY ABRAMS FOR A COUPLE OF MINUTES.

SHE ANNOUNCED THAT HER CAMPAIGN ANNOUNCED THEY RAISED $9.2 MILLION IN JUST TWO MONTHS.

SHE IS ONE OF THE POWERHOUSE FUNDRAISERS THAT YOU'VE EVER HEARD ABOUT, ISN'T SHE?

OH, ABSOLUTELY.

LET'S REWIND AFTER SHE WASN'T A CANDIDATE AFTER SHE LOST THE GOVERNOR FOR GEORGIA AND SHE WENT ON TO HAVE $100 MILLION AND THAT IS JUST REMARKABLE AND IT SHOWS SHE IS A NEW KIND OF FUND-RAISER WITH A WILD AMOUNT OF APPEAL VERY WIDE AND A VERY CLOSE RELATIONSHIP WITH MEGA DONORS.

A LOT OF THAT MONEY WAS CUT IN $1 MILLION INCREMENTS AND SO IT IS BOTH A GRASSROOTS ORGANIZATION WITH A LOT OF GRASSROOTS SUPPORT WITH SERIOUS HIGH-LEVEL DONORS AND WHEN STACY ABRAMS RUNS FOR GOVERNOR, AND I DON'T KNOW ANYBODY WHO WOULDN'T ALSO WANT TO WRITE A CHECK TO STACY ABRAMS.

ONE REASON THAT'S ESPECIALLY IMPORTANT FOR DEMOCRATS IN GEORGIA IS THE WAY SHE SPENDS HER MONEY.

IT HAS NEVER BEEN A STACY ABRAMS TELEVISION BONANZA WHEN SHE RUNS.

SHE HAS REALLY CEDED THE GROUND IN GEORGIA WITH THE GROUND GAME, WITH VOTER EDUCATION AND VOTER REGISTRATION AND VOTER TURNOUT AND THAT'S THE KIND OF INVESTMENT AND THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS WHY WE SEE SO MANY STATEWIDE DEMOCRATS AND EVERY DEMOCRAT RUNNING KNOWS THAT THEY WILL BE A BENEFICIARY OF THE STACY ABRAMS TURNOUT MACHINE AND TO RAISE $9 MILLION IN TWO MONTHS WHEN THE SITTING GOVERNOR RAISED $7.5 MILLION IN TWO MONTHS THAT SHOWIUS THE DISPARITY TO WHEN IS GOING ON.

>> YOU FACED THE REPUBLICAN PARTY AND YOU WERE GOING TO FACE AN EXTRAORDINARY AMOUNT OF MONEY COMING FROM THIS SIDE OF THE AISLE.

JUST A QUICK NOTE.

I THOUGHT IT WAS FASCINATING.

WHEN THE SUPREME COURT VACANCY OCCURRED RECENTLY AND WHEN PRESIDENT BIDEN VOWED THAT HE WOULD, IN FACT, NOMINATE AN AFRICAN-AMERICAN WOMAN THERE WAS A LOT OF TALK ABOUT SEVERAL CANDIDATES KETANJI BROWN JACKSON AND MICHELLE CHILDS WERE BOTH PROMINENT AND MORE AND MORE, ALTHOUGH WE DIDN'T THINK FOR A WHILE THAT THERE WAS REASON TO TALK ABOUT THIS AND A.P.

SAID LESLIE ABRAMS GARDNER AND THE U.S. DISTRICT COURT JUDGE IN THE DISTRICT OF GEORGIA IS ALSO IN CONSIDERATION PATRICIA AND, OF COURSE, SHE HAPPENED TO BE STACY ABRAMS' SISTER.

>> THAT'S EXACTLY RATE.

>> I DON'T ACTUALLY KNOW IF STACY ABRAMS' ASSOCIATION IS GOING TO HELP OR HURT HER NOMINATION, TO BE HONEST WITH YOU.

THEY'RE GOING TO NEED EVERY BOOK THEY CAN GET FOR A NOMINATION FROM PRESIDENT BIDEN AND RIGHT NOW THERE IS A SITTING U.S.

SENATOR, A DEMOCRAT WHO IS OUT OF THE SITUATION RIGHT NOW BECAUSE HE HAD A STROKE, AND SO THEY'RE DOWN TO 49 VOTES.

THERE IS A SITUATION WHERE THE WHITE HOUSE DOES NOT WANT THIS TO LOOK LIKE A HEAVILY POLITICAL DECISION AND IT IS A LIFETIME APPOINTMENT TO BE PERCEIVED AS BLATANTLY POLITICAL AS SUPPORTING THE SISTER AND STACY ABRAMS COULD ACTUALLY HEART HER CHANCES AND THERE'S ALSO A SOUTH CAROLINA JUDGE WHO SEEMS TO BE A FAVORITE OF -- >> AND MICHELLE CHILDS WITH PRESIDENT BIDEN.

I DON'T KNOW IF IT HELPS OR HURTS HER, TO BE HONEST WITH YOU.

>> BEFORE WE RUN OUT OF TIME.

THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION.

THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION.

WE'RE ALL WONDERING THAT, IS IT A GOOD THING OR A BAD THING TO BE ASSOCIATED WITH YOUR SISTER STACY ABRAMS RIGHT NOW?

>> IN THIS CASE, I DON'T THINK IT MATTERS A WHOLE LOT.

I THINK THERE IS THE ISSUE OF WHETHER OR NOT GARNER IS IMPLICATED THAT THERE ARE QUESTIONS SHE WOULD HAVE TO ANSWER TO.

THERE ARE OTHER JUDGES THAT HAVE RISEN AHEAD OF HER IN PART BECAUSE THEY HAVE BEEN ON OR APPOINTED TO THE D.C. COURT OF APPEALS AND THEY'VE HAD APPELLATE JUDGESHIPS AND OTHER TYPES OF THINGS THAT I THINK ARE PROBABLY GOING TO MAKE THEM STAND OUT MORE AND IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT ABRAMS AND GARDNER WOULD RNTD BE IN THE FUTURE YOU ARE AND I DON'T THINK SHE'S IN THE TOP THREE RIGHT NOW WITH THE CONK AROUND HER.

>> BEFORE WE DO RUN OUT OF TIME AS PATRICIA POINTED OUT, REPRESENTATIVE CLYBURN IN SOUTH CAROLINA HAS PUT A HARD PRESS ON PRESIDENT BIDEN TO NAME MICHELLE CHILDS AND THINK, ONE OF THE REASONS SHE THINKS HE'S GOT COINAGE THERE IS SHE GAVE HIS ENDORSEMENT IN SOUTH CAROLINA ON THE BASIS THAT BIDEN WOULD COME OUT AND PUBLICLY SUPPORT AN AFRICAN-AMERICAN FOR THE SUPREME COURT.

>> YEAH, WITHOUT CLYBURN'S ENDORSEMENT IN SOUTH CAROLINA WE WOULD NOT HAVE A PRESIDENT BIDEN RIGHT NOW.

THAT'S HOW MUCH HE OWES CLYBURN AND HIS BACKING.

>> WE'RE OUT OF TIME, AND ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF HOW IMPORTANT GEORGIA HAS SUDDENLY BECOME IN NATIONAL POLITICS TODAY.

RENE ALEGRIA, SO GLAD THAT YOU COULD BE WITH US, ANDRA GILLESPIE, PATRICIA MURPHY.

THANK YOU FOR ANOTHER TERRIFIC EDITION OF "POLITICAL REWIND."

WEIR OUT OF TIME FOR TODAY.

WE'LL BE BACK AGAIN WITH A NEW SHOW ON MONDAY.

MY THANKS TO JESSE SAMWEISSER, AND NATALIE MENDENHALL FOR THEIR WORK ON THIS SHOW.

I'LL SEE YOU MONDAY, IN THE MEANTIME, TAKE CARE, STAY HEALTHY, PLEASE WEAR A MASK AND GET A BOOSTER SHOT.

BYE-BYE.

♪♪