WELCOME TO POLITICAL REWIND," IT'S REALLY A PLEASURE TO HAVE ALL OF YOU WITH US FOR ANOTHER EDITION OF THE SHOW TODAY.

A COUPLE OF QUICK NOTES.

IF YOU HAVE BEEN WATCHING US ON TV, ON GPB TV ON FRIDAY NIGHTS DURING THE LEGISLATIVE SESSION, FIRST OF ALL, THANK YOU FOR DOING THAT.

THIS IS THE LAST SHOW THAT WILL, IN FACT, BE ON THE TV SIDE.

WE ALL ALONG DECIDED TO DO IT DURING THE SESSION TO COMPLIMENT, SUPPLEMENT THE WORK THAT DONNA LOWRY AND HER LAWMAKERS HAVE BEEN DOING THE REST OF THE WEEK.

BUT, OF COURSE, LAWMAKERS WILL BE WITH YOU AGAIN ON MONDAY NIGHT AS THE SESSION WINDS DOWN TO A FINALE.

AND WE WILL CONTINUE ON RADIO, WHERE YOU CAN HEAR US AT 9:00 IN THE MORNING AND 2:00 EVERY AFTERNOON.

SECOND OF ALL, WE HAVE NEW THEME MUSIC THAT SOME OF YOU HAVE NOTICED.

I AM HAPPY TO SAY IT WAS EXPOSED BY OUR ENGINEER, WHO IS ALSO A VERY TALENTED COMPOSER.

AND WE ARE EXCITED TO BE ABLE TO HAVE HIS MUSIC.

THANKS TO THOSE OF YOU WHO NOTICED IT OUT THERE.

LET'S GET TO THE PANEL.

ITES FRIDAY, WHICH MEANS MY PARTNER FROM THE AJC IS PA TRIRVEA MURPHY, SHE WRITES THE POLITICAL INSIDER COLUMN THAT APPEARS ON WEDNESDAYS AND SUNDAYS IN THE NEWSPAPER AND ALSO OVERSEES THE JOLT, THE DAILY ROUND POLITICAL ITEMS THAT YOU GET INNIA GENTLEMAN AND BEYOND.

AJC.COM, PATRICIA, HOW ARE YOU?

>> I'M FINE.

>> GLAD TO BE HERE.

LOTS TO TALK ABOUT AS THE LEGISLATIVE SESSION COMES TO AN ENDS.

INTERESTING CAMPAIGN NEWS WE WILL START TALKING ABOUT IN JUST A MINUTE.

ANDRA GILLESPIE, OF EMORY UNIVERSITY, DIRECTOR THE JAMES WELDON JOHNSON INSTITUTE OF THE STUDY OF RACE AND DIFFERENCE IS ALSO WITH US.

GOOD MORNING.

HOW ARE YOU?

>> I'M FINE.

HAPPY TO BE HERE.

>> WE ARE ALSO JOINED BY TAMMY -- WHO WE ALWAYS LIKE TO POINT OUT HAS A GREAT WORK/LIFE BALANCE.

NOT ONLY IS SHE A FINE PROFESSOR OF POLITICAL SCIENCE, BUT SHE HAS THREE -- SHE HAS TRIPLETS AT HOME WHO SHE DEALS WITH EVERY SINGLE DAY.

HI, TAMMY, HOW ARE YOUR THREE GIRLS?

>> THEY ARE AMAZING, AS ALWAYS.

THANK YOU, BILL, FOR ASKING.

>> LET'S GET RIGHT TO IT.

PATRICIA, WE ARE DOWN TO THE LAST DAYS OF THE SESSION.

I SAID IN THE HEADLINES OF THE SHOW THAT THE CONCEALED CARRY BILL IS ON TRACK TO PASS.

BUT I -- IN FACT, IT HAS NOW GONE THROUGH BOTH THE SENATE AND THE HOUSE, RIGHT?

>> YES.

THAT BILL HAS ALREADY GONE THROUGH, IT WAS ONE THE GOVERNOR'S TOP PRIORITIES.

REPUBLICANS' TOP PRIORITY AS WELL.

IT HAS BEEN PASSED.

>> THERE HAS BEEN OBVIOUSLY A LOT OF CONTROVERSY AROUND THIS MEASURE.

THE PROPONENTS SAY THAT THIS JUST CONFIRMS THE RIGHT THAT PEOPLE HAVE TO CARRY WEAPONS AND TO REMOVE ALL THE BARRIERS.

WHAT ARE THE CRITICS -- WHAT HAVE THEY BEEN CONCERNED ABOUT HERE?

>> WELL, THE CRITICS HAVE BEEN CONCERNED ABOUT THE FACT THAT WHILE THIS BILL SAYS THAT IT IS NOT -- IT IS STILL NOT LAWFUL FOR PEOPLE TO CARRY GUNS IF THEY HAVE MENTAL ILLNESS OR PAST FELONY CONVICTIONS, THE PERMITTING PROCESS IN GEORGIA, REQUIRED EVERY FIVE YEARS IN GEORGIA, IT'S THAT PROCESS THAT CHECKS ON PEOPLE'S MENTAL HEALTH, EVERY FIVE YEARS.

THAT PERMITTING PROCESS WILL NOW GO AWAY.

ONCE YOU BUY A FIREARM IT IS YOURS TO CARRY IN A CONCEALED MANNER HERE IN THE STATE OF GEORGIA NO MATTER WHAT.

IF YOU BOUGHT IT IN ANOTHER STATE, YOU ARE SUB TO THAT STATE'S REQUIREMENTS.

BUT HERE IN GEORGIA THERE WILL NO LONGER BE A PERMITTING PROCESS LIKE THAT.

THEY SAY IT IS NOT GOING TO MAKE GEORGIA SAFER.

THE WAY TO MAKE THE STATE SAFER IS FEWER GUNS.

THE REPUBLICANS FELT THE EXACT OPPOSITE.

THEY HEARD -- WE HEAR THIS ALL THE TIME -- THE BEST WAY TO STOP A BAD GUY WITH A GUN IS TO HAVE A GOOD GUY WITH A GUN.

>> ANDRA, THIS IS CLEARLY RED MEAT FOR THE BASE IN AN ELECTION YEAR.

I WANT TO READ A BRIEF QUOTE FROM MANDY BALLINGER WHO PRESENTED THIS BILL THE REPUBLICAN IN THE HOUSE.

SHE SAID, QUOTE, THIS BILL JUST REMOVES THE FEE THAT CITIZENS IN THE STATE HAVE TO PAY TO EXERCISE THEIR SECOND AMENDMENT RIGHTS.

IT IS THE LAST PART OF THAT SENTENCE I AM INTERESTED IN.

THIS IS THE ONGOING DEBATE, THAT -- WE HEAR REPUBLICANS USE THAT LINE ALL THE TIME.

OUR SECOND AMENDMENT RIGHT.

AND YET, THERE IS GREAT QUESTION ABOUT WHETHER, IN FACT, THAT'S WHAT THE FOUNDERS HAD IN MIND IN THE SECOND AMENDMENT IN THE FIRST PLACE, WHETHER IT REALLY WAS INTENDED TO GIVE ALL OF US THE RIGHT TO CARRY WEAPONS.

>> WELL, I MEAN, YOU KNOW, THE SECOND AMENDMENT RIGHT IS PREDICATED ON THIS NEED TO FORM MILITIAS WHEN NECESSARY, WHICH WAS DEFINITELY SOMETHING THAT WAS PROBABLY APPARENT AND PLAUSIBLE IN THE LATE 1th CENTURY, WHEN THIS WAS WRITTEN.

THE QUESTION IS THAT WE HAVE EVOLVED.

BUT PART OF THE REASON WHY OUR GUN CULTURE LOOKS SO DIFFERENT FROM MOST OF THE INDUSTRIALIZED WORLD AND PART OF THE REASON WHY WE HAVE SUCH HIGH HOMICIDE RATES WHEN COMPARED TO THE REST OF THE WORLD IS BECAUSE OF THE FACT THAT WE CAN'T GET RID OF GUNS.

AND THE SUPREME COURT, WITHIN THE LAST DECADE AND A HALF HAS MADE SURE THAT THIS IS ACTUALLY INCORPORATED SO THAT IT IS NOT JUST THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT THAT CAN'T RESTRICT YOUR RIGHT TO OWN GUNS, BUT IT IS ALSO STATE AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT THAT'S NOW RESTRICTED.

IT HAS BECOME A TALKING POINT FOR REPUBLICANS.

IT HAS ESPECIALLY BECOME A TALKING POINT AS THE NRA WAS VERY SUCCESSFUL IN ACTUALLY BEING ABLE TO LOBBY TO MAKE SURE IT BECAME A LITMUS TEST FOR REPUBLICAN CANDIDATES IN THE STATE.

IT IS COMING IN A MOMENT RIGHT NOW WHERE, ONE, PEOPLE ARE CONCERNED ABOUT CRIME.

SO PEOPLE DO SEE GUNS AS A PREEMPLTIVE WAY TO PROTECT THEIR FAMILIES FROM CRIME.

AND ALSO IN THE VIEW OF MILITIA, AS WE HAVE SEEN THE SITUATION IN UKRAINE, SO PEOPLE ARE THINKING IF A COUNTRY WERE TO INVADE, THEY WOULD HAVE TO DEFEND THEMSELVES.

THIS IS ONE OF THOSE THINGS THAT, YOU KNOW, IS ONE OF THOSE BIG STICKING POINTS IN AMERICAN CULTURE.

BECAUSE IT WAS WRITTEN DOWN, IT IS REALLY HARD FOR US TO GET AWAY FROM THAT.

I DOUBT WE WILL BE BANNING GUNS FROM MOST CIVILIANS.

>> TAMMY, DEMOCRATS HAVE GUNS, TOO.

THIS ISSUE MAY BE A PARTISAN ONE AS IT WENT THROUGH THE LEGISLATURE, BUT THE GUN OWNERSHIP IS NOT PARTISAN AT ALL.

BUT THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO SEE A CERTAIN IRONY IN THE FACT THAT REPUBLICANS IN GEORGIA HAVE KIND TWO OF MESSAGES RIGHT NOW.

ONE IS MORE PEOPLE OUGHT TO HAVE THE RIGHT TO CARRY GUNS WITHOUT OBSTACLES, WITHOUT HAVING TO PAY A FEE, WITHOUT GOING THROUGH A PERMITTING PROCESS.

AND OH, BY THE WAY, CRIME IN OUR STREETS IS OUT OF CONTROL, AND WE'VE GOT TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

>> RIGHT.

AND LET'S NOT -- LET'S REMEMBER THAT THERE IS ALSO A COMPONENT OF WHAT POLICE OFFICERS HAVE DONE IN OTHER STATES WHEN YOU HAVE SOMEONE WHO IS NOT WHITE CARRYING A FIREARM AND THE DANGER THEN THAT ENSUES EVEN IF THAT INDIVIDUAL IS RULELY AND LAWFULLY CARRYING THAT FIREARM.

SO YOU CAN -- LEGALLY AND LAWFULLY CARRYING THAT FIREARM.

YOU CAN HAVE A SITUATION WHERE YOU HAVE LEGAL PERSONS BLACK AND BROWN, CARRYING FIREARMS AND THEN CAN BE USED AS A THREAT.

AND THEN YOU HAVE EXCESSIVE FORCE USED ON THOSE INDIVIDUALS.

THEN COME TO THE SITUATION OF THIS ALMOST LIKE WE ARE THIS THE WILD, WILD WEST WHERE EVERYONE HAS A FIREARM.

SO WHO IS THE GOOD GUY?

TO PATRICIA'S POINT, RIGHT?

WHO IS THE GOOD GUY?

AND WHO IS THE BAD GUY IF ALL THESE FOLKS HAVE FIREARMS AND THEN WE ARE NOT HAVING A PROPER PROCESS AROUND TO ENSURE THAT SOMEONE, WHO YOU KNOW MAY NOT HAVE BEEN CONVICTED OF A FELONY OR DOMESTIC VIOLENCE ONCE, BUT THEN AFTER THAT PURCHASE TAKES PLACE.

ARE WE HAVING A CLEAR PERSPECTIVE FOR ALL OF THESE GUNS TO BE IN PLACE?

OR ARE WE HAVING KNEE JERK REACTIONS BECAUSE WE ARE IN A TIME OF ELECTION?

LOOK AT IT FROM A HOLISTIC PERSPECTIVE AND NOT JUST IN ITSELF.

>> PATRICIA, LET'S PUT THIS IN A POLITICAL CONTEXT EVEN MORE FIRMLY.

THIS FITS INTO WHAT YOU WROTE YOUR COLUMN THAT WILL APPEAR IN THE SUNDAY PAPER BUT IS ALREADY ON LINE TODAY ABOUT, WHICH WAS THIS WAS A SHOWCASE MEASURE FOR BRIAN KEMP THIS YEAR.

AND YOU SAY IN YOUR COLUMN THAT HE HAS GOTTEN, AS HE RUNS FOR RE-ELECTION, VIRTUALLY EVERYTHING HE WANTED IN THIS SESSION OF THE LEGISLATURE.

AND GIVEN THAT HE'S GOT A PRIMARY CHALLENGE FROM DAVID PERDUE, HE GETS TO SPEND THE NEXT 40 DAYS SIGNING ONE BILL AFTER ANOTHER IN WHICH HE CAN TAKE CREDIT FOR ACCOMPLISHING THINGS HE BELIEVES REPUBLICANS REALLY CARE ABOUT.

IT REALLY GIVES HIM EVEN MORE OF AN EDGE OVER DAVID PERDUE, DOESN'T IT?

>> IT REALLY DOES.

SOMETHING I HAVE BEEN STRUCK BY WATCHING THIS GOVERNOR WHO LAID OUT ALL OF HIS MEASURES AT THE START OF HIS SESSION, IF YOU GO THROUGH THOSE MEASURES HE SAID HE WANTED TO PASS, ALMOST ALL OF THOSE HAVE PASSED.

IT IS NOT BECAUSE THE LEGISLATURE THINKS HE IS GREAT OR THEY ARE PERSONALLY LOYAL TO BRIAN KEMP.

THAT IS NOT THE CASE.

A LOT OF THESE MEMBERS ALSO HAVE REPUBLICAN PRIMARIES COMING UP.

THE ONES WHO DON'T HAVE A SIGNIFICANT REPUBLICAN PRIMARY ARE THEN GOING TO GO INTO A GENERAL ELECTION.

HE HAS REPUBLICANS WITH VERY SIMILAR POLITICAL DYNAMICS TO DEAL WITH.

SO HE HAS PUT FORWARD AN ISSUE, A SET OF ISSUES, AN AGENDA THAT NATURALLY ALIGNS WITH REPUBLICANS.

AND A LOT OF THESE ARE TRUMP SUPPORTERS.

MY QUESTION COMING INTO THIS LEGISLATIVE SESSION, WILL THAT PRO-DONALD TRUMP PACK IN THE HOUSE -- WILL THAT BECOME A CABAL, AN ANTI-KEMP CABAL TO BRING HIM DOWN?

HE PUT FORTH CONSERVATIVE ISSUES WITH A LOT OF OTHER ISSUES THAT ARE GOING TO PLAY VERY WELL IN NOVEMBER.

PUT THOSE FORWARD.

AND HE HAS A LEGISLATURE THAT WANTS TO MOVE ON ALL OF THOSE.

THEY ARE ALSO VERY CONSERVATIVE, AND OTHERS NEED TO GET ELECTED IN NOVEMBER.

THEY ARE ALIGNED WELL WITH KEMP ANDY KEY TO HIS AGENDA.

>> IF YOU DON'T MIND ME READING BACK SOME OF YOUR WORDS.

YOU SAY THE GOVERNOR PITCHED A BUFFET OF HOT BUTTON SCHOOL ISSUES THAT HE PUTS UNDER THE UMBRELLA OF PARENTS' RIGHTS.

MASK MANDATES, ONLINE SCHOOL AND MORE.

PARENTS SENT REPUBLICANS INTO THIS SESSION WITH MARCHING ORDERS.

MOST OF THOSE DEMANDS ARE NOW IN LEGISLATION HEADING TOWARDS OR ACROSS THE FINISH LINE.

WHY DON'T YOU TELL US SOME OF THE THINGS THAT HE ACCOMPLISHED THAT YOU THINK WILL SERVE HIM WELL IN THE PRIMARY?

>> OBVIOUSLY CONSTITUTIONAL CARRY WILL BE A PIECE PUSHED VERY HARD BY ACTIVISTS HERE AND AROUND THE COUNTRY.

A LOT OF THE HOT BUTTON SCHOOL ISSUES.

HE PASSED A BILL TO GIVE PATIENTS THE OPTION TO OPT OUT OF MASK MANDATES IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS AND HAD A HUGE CEREMONY WITH OTHER REPUBLICANS STANDING ALONGSIDE HIM.

THESE ARE MEDICALS WHOSE PARENTS DURING THE PANDEMIC WERE COMING TO THEM, PARENTS IN THEIR DISTRICT EMAILING THEM ALONG WITH THE SCHOOL BOARD SAYING I DON'T WANT MY CHILDREN TO BE WAKE WEARING A MASK, ALSO, I HAVE SEEN THE CURRICULUM, AND I WANT TO CHANGE THAT, TOO, AND I WANT THIS OTHER THING.

PARENTS HAVE BEEN PUSHING THEIR STATE LEGISLATURES.

KEMP SIGNED ONTO THAT AND THE LEGISLATURE DID, TOO.

SOME PIECES THAT HAVEN'T GOTTEN ACROSS THE FINISH LINE, THE BILL ABOUT TRANSGENDER HOUSE.

THAT MIGHT BE TOO HOT TO HANDLE, ESPECIALLY IN THE STATE HOUSE.

SOME MEASURES THAT ARE GOING TO BE POPULAR, TAX REFUNDS THAT THE GOVERNOR TALKED ABOUT AT THE BEGINNING OF THE SESSION.

THOSE ARE PASSED.

SALARY INCREASES FOR TOO MUCHERS.

A $5,000 SALARY INCREASE FOR ALLSTATE EMPLOYEES.

THAT'S GOING TO PLAY WELL IN NOVEMBER AS WELL AS IN THE GENERAL ELECTION, IF HE GETS THAT FAR.

>> TAMMY, AS ALWAYS, THE QUESTION HERE IS, AS PATRICIA LAYS OUT THE REPUBLICAN AGENDA THAT KEMP WAS ABLE TO ACCOMPLISH HERE, WHICH, BY THE WAY, IS BASED ON A NATIONAL TEMPLATE AT THIS POINT.

THESE ARE THE SAME ISSUES THAT REPUBLICANS ACROSS THE COUNTRY ARE RUNNING ON, AND WHICH YOUNGKIN IN VIRGINIA WAS ABLE TO HAVE PEOPLE RALLY AROUND TO GIVE HIM THE GOVERNORSHIP THERE.

AS ALWAYS, THE QUESTION BECOMES, IF YOU CAN WIN A PRIMARY ON THESE ISSUES, CAN YOU IN FACT WIN A GENERAL ELECTION ON MANY OF THESE ISSUES?

TAMMY?

>> RIGHT, I FIND IT INTERESTING WHEN WE BRING UP VIRGINIA.

PERHAPS PART OF YOUNGKIN'S VICTORY WAS WHEN IT CAME TO McCOLA'S RESPONSE.

IT SEEMED FLIPPANT, LIKE HE DIDN'T TAKE IT SERIOUSLY.

AND ONE WOULD HOPE TO HAVE A COMPETITIVE TWO-PARTY SYSTEM HERE IN GEORGIA THAT YOU WOULD HAVE THE OPPOSING PARTY TO BE MORE THOUGHT HFL IN THEIR RESPONSES.

IT DEPENDS ON, TO YOUR QUESTION, BILL, HOW FAR TO THE CORNERS DO THOSE CANDIDATES GO IN THE PRIMARIES.

IF THEY GO SO FAR TO THE RIGHT, THEN THEY MAY NOT BE ABLE TO RECOVER, ESPECIALLY IN GEORGIA EVEN THOUGH THE DISTRICTS STILL FAVOR A REPUBLICAN-LEANING OFFICIAL.

YOU STILL HAVE SOME MIXTURE THAT IS MOVING INTO THESE DISTRICTS.

SO IF YOU GO SO FAR TO THE RIGHT, CAN YOU THEN PIVOT TO MOVE TOWARD THE CENTER SO THAT YOU WON'T HAVE THE MARGIN -- OR YOU COULD HAVE THE MARGIN OF VICTORY IN THE GENERAL ELECTIONS?

AND DOES THE OPPONENT HAVE A THOUGHTFUL COMEBACK THAT TAKES INTO CONSIDERATION THE CONCERNS OF THE VOTERS WHO MAY BE LISTENING TO THAT INDIVIDUAL ON THE OTHER SIDE?

>> ANDRA?

>> I DO THINK THERE WOULD BE A QUESTION FOR A LOT OF THESE RACES IF CANDIDATES THAT ARE MORE ON THE EXTREME ENDS UP WINNING THE NOMINATIONS HOW PALATABLE THEY ARE GOING TO BE.

I THINK WHAT REPUBLICANS ARE STRATEGIZING ON IS THAT SOME OF THOSE VOTERS WHO IN 2020 MAY HAVE BEEN TURNED OFF BY THE EXCESSES OF DONALD TRUMP, WERE APPALLED BY THE HANDLING OF THE COVID CRISIS AT THEIR CORE ARE AND ARE PEOPLE WHO -- YOU KNOW, IF YOU ACTIVATE THEIR ANGER, TAP INTO THEIR RESENTMENTS AND THEIR PREJUDICES, MIGHT ACTUALLY COME BACK AND VOTE REPUBLICAN IN THIS ELECTION.

BUT THAT WAS AN OUTLIER AT THE TOP OF THE TICKET AND DIDN'T NECESSARILY HAVE TO DO WITH REPUBLICAN PRINCIPLES.

IT IS A DIFFERENT TAKE ON PRACTICING MATTISM.

STACEY ABRAMS IS TRYING TO BE MORE BREAD AND BUTTER PRAGMATIC.

THEY ARE GOING ON THE OTHER SIDE WHERE PEOPLE ARE LIKE, I UNDERSTAND AMERICAN IS MODERNIZING BUT I DON'T WANT IT TO MODERNIZE TOO FAST OR THERE ARE THINGS I DON'T AGREE WITH, SO I AM NOT GOING TO NECESSARILY PUT DEMOCRATS IN CHARGE.

>> ANDRA, THE BALL IS IN YOUR COURT.

I THINK IT IS INTERESTING THAT PATRICIA MENTIONED THE BILL -- TRANSGENDER SPORTS BILL.

SHE SAID MAY HAVE BEEN TOO HOT FOR THIS SESSION, REALLY COULD HAVE BEEN A PROBLEM.

I THINK WHAT'S INTERESTING ABOUT THAT, ANDRA, IS TO POINT OUT THAT CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICAN GOVERNORS IN TWO STATES, UTAH AND INDIANA WHO WOULD HAVE LINED UP ON MOST OF THESE OTHER HOT BUTTON ISSUES WITH KEMP, THEY BOTH VETOED THE TRANSGENDER BILL IN THEIR STATES.

MAYBE TO PATRICIA'S STATE THAT MAYBE REPUBLICANS ARE NOT QUITE READY TO GO THAT FAR RIGHT NOW.

>> ON SOME ISSUES -- IN INSTANCES WHERE THESE BILLS HAVE COME UP, THE REPUBLICAN LEGISLATURE OVERRIDES THE VETO.

IT GIVES THEM COVER TO SAY, HEY, I DIDN'T SUPPORT THAT BILL BACK IN THE DAY EVEN THOUGH THEY KNOW THEIR VETO WOULD BE MOOT.

>> PATRICIA.

>> THE GOVERNOR PUT THIS FORWARD IN HIS STATE OF THE STATE ADDRESS AND FRAMED IT AS FAIRNESS IN GIRLS' SPORTS.

WHAT I AM HEARING IN THE HOUSE IS THERE IS REAL CONCERN ABOUT THE EFFECT ON TRANSGENDER STUDENTS, NOT NECESSARILY THOSE PLAYING SPORTS BUT JUST IN GEORGIA AND WHAT MESSAGE IT SENDS TO THEM AND TO THEIR PARENTS.

CERTAINLY THERE IS ONE MEMBER OF THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY ON THE HOUSE SIDE WHO HAS A TRANSGENDER CHILD.

I THINK THERE IS A SENSITIVITY TO THIS ON HOUSE SIDE.

I DON'T KNOW IN AN ELECTION YEAR IT WILL ABSOLUTELY DERAIL IT.

BUT IT CERTAINLY IS PART OF THE REASON IT HASN'T GOTTEN OVER THE FINISH LINE YET.

>> ALL RIGHT.

LET'S TALK ABOUT THE GOVERNOR'S RACE FROM THE PERDUE PERSPECTIVE.

WE HAVE ALL AGREED THAT BRIAN KEMP COMES OUT OF THIS LEGISLATIVE SESSION WITH A LOT OF AMMUNITION UNDER HIS BELT TO WIN THE PRIMARY AGAINST DAVID PERDUE.

PATRICIA, THE OTHER DAY, DONALD TRUMP DID AN INTERVIEW WITH ONE AMERICA NEWS, HIS FAVORITE NETWORK, OR ONE OF HIS FAVORITE NETWORKS, AND THIS IS WHAT HE SAID ABOUT DAVID PERDUE AND HIS RUN FOR GOVERNOR.

>> THE RECORDS -- HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS TO LIKE TWO OR THREE.

>> YEAH.

>> IT IS VERY IMPORTANT TO ME.

YOU KNOW, THAT -- I ENDORSE A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT ARE LONG SHOTS.

LOOK, WE ARE FIGHTING A GOVERNOR WHO HAS DONE A VERY POOR JOB IN GEORGIA.

AND A HORRIBLE JOB ON THE ELECTION.

AND HOPEFULLY, DAVID PERDUE IS GOING TO WIN.

I MEAN, THESE ARE NOT SURE THINGS.

IF I LOSE ONE ALONG THE WAY, WHICH YOU HAVE TO, RIGHT, THEY ARE GOING TO SAY THIS WAS A HUMILIATING EXPERIENCE.

THEY WILL MAKE IT LIKE -- I COULD BE 100 WINS, AND ONE LOSS, AND THEY WOULD MAKE IT SEEM LIKE THIS IS A HUMILIATING -- THESE ARE REALLY DISHONEST PEOPLE.

>> PATRICIA, BACKING AWAY FROM DAVID PERDUE.

>> SOUNDS LIKE HE'S HEDGING HIS BETS A LITTLE BIT HERE IN GEORGIA, WHICH IS AN INCREDIBLE FIGHT TO SEE, WHEN HE STARTED THIS IN THE FIRST PLACE.

HE GOT DAVID PERDUE TO RUN AGAINST BRIAN KEMP.

NOW HERE HE IS BACKING OFF AND SAY I MIGHT BACK 100 WINNERS AND A MAYBE A LOSER OR TWO.

YOU DON'T WANT TO BE IN THE PERDUE CAMP RIGHT NOW WITH DONALD TRUMP BACKING OFF OF HER CANDIDACY BECAUSE -- I WILL TELL YOU WHY.

I WAS IN FAYETTEVILLE WITH PERDUE EARLIER THIS WEEK TO SEE HOW VOTERS ARE REACTING TO HIM.

THEY ARE THERE TO SEE HIM BECAUSE OF DONALD TRUMP.

I TALKED TO A WOMAN WHO SAID, YOU KNOW, I USED TO NOT LIKE DAVID PERDUE, I THOUGHT HE WAS A RHINO, BUT NOW I REALIZE HE IS JUST LIKE DONALD TRUMP.

IF DONALD TRUMP BACKS OFF HIS SUPPORT AND TAKES AWAY THE SINGLE RATIONALE FOR PERDUE TO BE IN THIS RACE HE DOESN'T HAVE A RACE ANYMORE.

THERE IS A CAUTIONARY TALE OVER IN ALABAMA WHERE DONALD TRUMP RESCINDED HIS ENDORSEMENT FOR FOR MO BROOKS.

BECAUSE MO BROOKS WHO WAS RUNNING FOR ALABAMA SENATE SEAT OVER THERE SAID HE WOULD RATHER TALK ABOUT THE NEXT ELECTION THAN THE LAST ELECTION.

FOR DONALD TRUMP THAT WAS ALL THE DISLOYALTY HE NEEDED TO SEE, TOOK AWAY THE ENDORSEMENT.

SNAPPED IT BACK.

EVERY DONALD TRUMP ENDORSEE AROUND THE COUNTRY HAS REALLY HAD THE FEAR OF TRUMP PUT INTO THEM.

AND THEY KNOW THEY CAN'T LIVE WITHOUT THAT ENDORSEMENT.

DAVID PERDUE IS GOING TO HAVE TO CONTINUE TO HIT THE GAS TOWARD TRUMP, TOWARD THE RIGHT AND PULL HIMSELF AWAY WITH SOME OF THE REPUBLICAN PRIMARY VOTERS WHO MAY NOT WANT DONALD TRUMP BUT WANT SOMEBODY WHO CAN WIN IN NOVEMBER.

>> TAMMY, THE PERDUE CAMPAIGN HAS INDICATED ONE OF THE REASONS HE IS LAGGING BEHIND KEMP IN THE POLLS IN THIS RACE HAS TO DO WITH THE FACT THAT PEOPLE, REPUBLICAN VOTERS, DIDN'T KNOW HE WAS ENDORSED BY DONALD TRUMP.

AND NOW THEY DO.

TRUMP WAS IN GEORGIA, AS WE ALL KNOW, LAST SATURDAY NIGHT.

AND REALLY RALLIED THE CROWD AROUND DAVID PERDUE.

SO THERE NO, SIR LONGER ANY REASON WHY REPUBLICANS SHOULDN'T KNOW THAT TRUMP HAD SUPPORTED, HAS SUPPORTED PERDUE.

NOW THIS STATEMENT FROM TRUMP COMES AT THE WORST TIME POSSIBLE FOR THE PERDUE CAMPAIGN.

>> RIGHT.

IT'S ALMOST AS IF, HEY, I THOUGHT WE WERE FRIENDS, AND NOW WE ARE NOT ANYMORE, AND I JUST GOT THAT MEMO.

AND WHAT DOES IT DO TO THE PERDUE CAMP IN TERMS OF THEIR MESSAGING AND THEIR STRATEGY?

WHAT DOES IT DO TO PEOPLE AS PATRICIA SAID WHO ARE OR WERE ON THE FENCE WITH HIM AND ARE NOW SAYING OKAY, HE'S NOT A RHINO BECAUSE TRUMP IS WITH HIM.

BUT NOW TRUMP IS SAYING THIS, MAYBE I AM NOT GOING TO GO WITH HIM.

IT IS VERY FASCINATING TO SEE HOW REPUBLICANS ARE TYING THEMSELVES SO CLOSELY TO THE FORMER PRESIDENT.

FOR THE PRIMARY ELECTION THE QUESTION THOUGH THAT I HAVE AS A POLITICAL SCIENTIST IS WHAT HAPPENS IN THE GENERAL ELECTION WHEN YOU HAVE A GROWING ELECTORATE HERE IN GEORGIA WHO ARE NOT AS CONSERVATIVE AS GEORGIA ONCE HAD BEEN AND YOU HAVE A DIVERSIFICATION GOING ON?

WHAT DOES THAT MEAN IN THE GENERAL ELECTION?

AND THEN WHAT DOES THAT DO TO THE REPUBLICAN PARTY AS A WHOLE, LONG TERM, IN GEORGIA, IF WE CONTINUE TO HAVE SUCH CANDIDATES?

>> ANDRA?

>> SO, THERE IS THE R RATED WAY I COULD SAY THIS.

I WILL SAY IT PG.

THIS IS LUCY WITH THE FOOTBALL, PEOPLE.

I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY ANYBODY IS SURPRISED THIS HAPPENED.

I THINK IT DOES SHED LITE ON WHAT DONALD TRUMP'S MOTIVATIONS ARE IN MAKING ENDORSEMENTS.

IT WASN'T STRATEGIC.

THIS WAS PERSONAL.

BECAUSE IT WAS PERSONAL, HE CAN'T BACK OFF OF IT.

IF TRUMP HAD WON GEORGIA BY THE MARGINS WITH WHICH HE WON ALABAMA, FIRST OF ALL, DAVID PERDUE WOULDN'T HAVE GOTTEN INTO THE RACE.

HE WOULD PROBABLY STILL BE SENATOR.

EVEN IF HE WERE LOOKING FOR A SECOND ACT AND HAD GOTTEN DONALD TRUMP'S ENDORSEMENT AND HE WAS PERFORMING BADLY, DONALD TRUMP WOULD HAVE BACKED OFF OF IT.

BUT BECAUSE THIS ONE WAS SUPER PERSONAL AND BECAUSE HE HAD DOUBLE ASKED TRIPLED AND QUADRUPLED DOWN ON HIS CONTEMPT FOR BRIAN KEMP HE CAN'T COMPLETELY DO A 180.

SO NOW HE DECIDED TO HEDGE HIS BETS AND DECIDED A 99% WIN RATE IS PERFECTLY FIN.

IN THE GRAND SCHEME, I GET THAT.

BUT, AGAIN, I DON'T THINK THERE IS ANY STRATEGY HERE AS PEOPLE ARE KISSING THE RINGS WHEN THEY HAVE THEIR OWN POLITICAL RESOURCES TO SOMEBODY WHO IS A NARCISSIST A BULLY AND SOMEBODY WHO DOESN'T CARRY ABOUT THEM.

BUT YOU CONTINUE TO KISS THE RING.

FOR MANY OF YOU, YOU HELD OF FOR A VERY LONG TIME.

THINK ABOUT THAT.

AND THEN YOU MIGHT WANT TO CONSIDER HOWERS ISLY YOU TAKE DONALD TRUMP.

>> BEFORE WE GO TO A BREAK, PATRICIA, YOU SEE A VERY DIFFERENT DAVID PERDUE OUT ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL TODAY THAN THE ONE WHO WAS RUNNING FOR RE-ELECTION TO HIS SENATE SEAT.

WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THAT?

>> YEAH.

IT WAS SO INTERESTING TO SEE DAVID PERDUE.

WHEN I COVERED HIM IN 2020, HE WAS EXHAUSTED, GRUMPY, NOT VERY NICE, DIDN'T TALK TO REPORTERS, DIDN'T TALK TO MANY VOTERS.

IT WAS REALLY STRANGE BY THE END.

AND HE HAS REALLY -- HE REALLY HAS TURNED THAT AROUND.

HE MEETS WITH REPORTERS.

HE HAS A PRESS SCHEDULE RIGHT AMP THIS EVENT.

AND HE TELLS US WHERE HE IS GOING.

HE DID NOT DO THAT IN 2020.

IT IS A MUCH MORE OPEN CAMPAIGN THAT HE'S RUNNING.

I THINK HE UNDERSTOOD THAT NOT DEBATING, NAT NOT TALKING TO REPORTERS IS NOT HELPFUL.

WE SEE A REPLAY OF THAT IN HER SHELL WALKER WHICH WE CAN GET TO LATER.

BUT HE WAS CHARMING, FORMALLY DRESSED.

HE LOST THE JEANS JACKET.

IT WAS MORE AUTHENTIC, I THINK AS A CEO AND NOT AS A GOOD OL' BOY AS HE WAS PORTRAYING HIMSELF BEFORE.

AND HE SEEMED TO BE ENJOYING HIMSELF ON THE TRAIL.

THAT WAS A -- THAT WAS A MUCH MORE POSITIVE TURN FOR DAVID PERDUE.

IRONICALLY, THIS CAMPAIGN IS A HEAVIER LIFT.

BUT HE'S DOING IT IN A WAY THAT AT LEAST SEEMS MORE ENJOYABLE TO HIM PERSONALLY.

AND VOTERS DOWN THERE WERE REACTING TO THAT AS WELL.

>> OKAY.

THANK YOU, ALL OF YOU, FOR A GREAT START TO THE SHOW TODAY.

WE WILL GET TO THE OUR FIRST BREAK.

PATRICIA JUST MENTIONED HER SHELL WALKER.

THERE IS SOME REALLY INTERESTING NEWS ABOUT HER SHELL WALKER AND PEOPLE WHO ARE LINING UP AGAINST HIM RIGHT NOW.

WE WILL GET TO THAT MORE AFTER THESE MESSAGES.

>>> TAMMY GREER OF CLARK AND LANDING UNIVERSE, ANDRA GILLESPIE OF EMORY JOIN ME, ALONG WITH PATRICIA MURPHY, POLITICAL COLUMNIST AND REPORTER FOR THE AJC.

PATRICIA, POLITICO DROPPED WHAT I THOUGHT IT WAS A FASCINATING REPORT THIS MORNING.

THEY ARE REPORTING THAT -- WE ALL KNOW THAT HERSCHEL WALKER IS BY FAR THE FRONT RUNNER IN THE GOP RACE FOR THE UNITED STATES SENATE.

GARY BLACK, SADLER, KING, STRUGGLING TO GET ANY GROUND WHATSOEVER.

IT LOOKS LIKE HERSCHEL WALKER IS GOING TO HAVE A FREE RIDE ALL THE WAY TO THE PRIMARY.

BUT WHAT POLITICO IS REPORTING IS THERE ARE TWO REPUBLICAN PACS OUT THERE REPORTING THEY ARE GOING TO SPEND MILLIONS OF DOLLARS ATTACKING HERSCHEL WALKER.

THEIR THEORY IS THAT THE DIRTY LAUNDRY THAT WALKER IS CARRYING AROUND WITH HIM HAS SO FAR NOT BEEN EXPOSED AS WIDELY AS IT SHOULD BE.

IF HE BECOMES THE NOMINEE, DEMOCRATS WILL HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO DO THAT AND BEAT HIM IN A GENERAL ELECTION.

ONE LAST POINT, AND THEN I WILL TURN IT OVER TO YOU.

THEY DON'T BELIEVE THEY CAN BEAT HERSCHEL WALKER WITH THESE ADS BUT THEY THINK THEY CAN FORCE HIM INTO A RUNOFF, AND THEREFORE FURTHER EXPOSE THE THINGS ABOUT HIM THAT WILL HURT HIM IN A GENERAL.

PATRICIA?

>> YES.

IT HAS BEEN THE STRATEGY ALL ALONG FOR THE OTHER FOUR REPUBLICAN CANDIDATES RUNNING AGAINST HERSCHEL WALKER TO JUST GET INTO A RUNOFF AGAINST HIM AND MAKE IT A ONE-ON-ONE RACE.

THAT'S THE STRATEGY OF EVERY CANDIDATE IN GEORGIA BY THE BEY WAY.

THEY HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO DENT HERSCHEL WALKER'S APPEAL REALLY IN ANY MEANINGFUL WAY AT ALL.

AND THAT IS DESPITE REAMS OF PRESS ACCOUNTS COMING OUT ABOUT HERSCHEL WALKER'S PAST, HIS MULTIPLE POLICE REPORTS WITH HIS WIFE CALLING POLICE BECAUSE HE HAD HELD A GUN TO HERSCHEL HEAD, BECAUSE HE HAD THREATENED HERSCHEL LIFE.

-- THREATENED HER LIFE.

THESE CANDIDATES DON'T HAVE A LOT OF PARTLY SUNNY.

THEY HAVE SPENT NO MONEY IN ATTACK ADS AGAINST HERSCHEL WALKER.

ANYBODY WITH HIS NAME ID WITH NO ONE SPENT AGAINST HIM IS GOING TO START HIGH AND STAY HIGH.

HE STARTED AT 70%, STAYED UP BETWEEN 60 AND 70 THE ENTIRE TIME.

THE RATIONALE BEHIND THIS, IS THAT WHEN THEY DO POLLING AND TELL VOTERS AT THE SAME TIME DID YOU KNOW ABOUT THESE POLICE REPORTS, DID YOU KNOW ABOUT THE THREATS AGAINST HIS WIFE AND OTHER WOMEN, HIS SUPPORT AMONG THOSE VOTERS DROPPED QUICKLY.

WE HAVE TO SEE IF THESE PACs ACTUALLY SPENDS THEIR MONEY.

THEY ARE SAYING THEY ARE GOING TO SPEND THE MONEY.

WE ARE GOING TO SEE IF THE MONEY GETS SPENT AND DENTS HIS LEVEL OF SUPPORT.

RIGHT NOW HE HAS THE SUPPORT.

THE APPLAUSE HE GOT AT THE RALLY, BEYOND ANYTHING THAT WHAT DONALD TRUMP GOT.

>> I'M GLAD YOU SAID WE WILL SEE IF THEY ARE GOING TO SPEND THE MONEY.

WE ARE ASSUING THAT THE REPORT FROM POLITICO IS ACCURATE.

THAT'S WHY I SAID POLITICO SAYS THEY ARE GOING TO SPEND MILLIONS.

WE WILL SEE IF THEY ARE GOING TO DO THAT.

ANDRA, THE PAPER QUOTES BLACK SAYING, FOLKS, HE CAN'T WIN IN NOVEMBER, THE BAGGAGE IS TOO HEAVY, IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN.

AND THEN HE GOES ON AND LET THE DEMOCRATS FOR $140 MILLION INTO THE DOMESTIC VIOLENCE ALLEGATIONS AND HIS THREATS TO HAVE SHOOTOUTS WITH POLICE.

WE NEED TO HAVE THAT DISCUSSION RIGHT NOW, NOT IN THE GENERAL, IS WHAT HE IS SAYING.

ANDRA.

>> SO I AGREE WITH GARY BLACK.

AND I UNDERSTAND HIS FRUSTRATION.

I DON'T FAULT HIM FOR TRYING TO TAKE HERSCHEL WALKER DOWN A PEG WITH THIS.

I THINK THE OPEN QUESTION IS WHETHER OR NOT THIS IS GOING TO BE EFFECTIVE.

BASED ON WHAT PATRICIA SAID IN HER CONVERSATIONS WITH FOLKS IN THE BLACK CAMPAIGN, WHAT I SUSPECT THEIR POLLING IS TELLING THEM IS THAT THEY DID SOME MESSAGE TESTING AND THEY HAD SOMEPRY AND POSTTESTING GOING ON IN THE SURVEY.

I THINK ONCE YOU TELL PEOPLE THEY IMMEDIATELY START TO CHANGE THEIR MINDS.

BUT WHAT DO IT LOOSE LIKE A WEEK OR TWO LATER?

TIP KILO, THEY DON'T GO BACK AND TALK TO THE SAME PEOPLE A COUPLE OF WEEKS LATER.

HERE THAT RESEARCH ZINN WOULD BE REALLY EFFECTIVE TO SEE WHAT IT IS.

THAT BEING SAID, I THINK HERSCHEL WALKER'S APPEAL THE POLITICS OF PERSONALITY.

HE IS ABLE TO DRAW ON THAT AND HIS CELEBRITY.

AND PEOPLE MAY ACTUALLY BE WILLING TO FORGIVE AND OVERLOOK THAT THE SAME WAY THEY DID FOR DONALD TRUMP.

WE ALSO CANNOT DISCOUNT THE WAYS THAT WHEN WE ARE PLAYING INTO RESENTMENT WE TALK A LOT ABOUT RACE BUT WHAT IS LESS STUDIED IS GENDER RESENTIMENT AND DOMINANCE NOT JUST ABOUT PEOPLE OF COLOR AND LGBTQ COMING INTO POSITIONS OF PROMINENCE, BUT IT IS GENDER ROLES CHANGING.

SOME PEOPLE WHO HOLD SEXIST VIEWS MIGHT BE WILLING TO DISCOUNT THAT OR TO SAY THAT THAT STUFF HAPPENED 20 YEARS AGO AND SO THAT'S NOT NECESSARILY THE HERSCHEL WALKER THAT WOE SEE TODAY.

>> TAMMY?

>> THE POLITICS OF REDEMPTION, RIGHT?

NOT ONLY THAT, BUT TO -- FIRST TO GO BACK TO YOUR QUOTE, BILL, WHEN YOU QUOTED GARY BLACK.

IT'S INTERESTING, YOU WANT TO PLANT IT ALL ON THE DEMOCRATS TO PUT IN MONIES WHEN IT COMES TO THE DOMESTIC VIOLENCE ILLUMINATION RATHER THAN THE GOP-BACKED PACs THAT ARE ACTUALLY DOING IT.

IT IS INTERESTING TO GO AHEAD AND PUT IT OFF ON THE OTHER POLITICAL PARTY.

I AGREE, YOU HAVE DONALD TRUMP -- A SLEW OF INFORMATION CAME OUT ABOUT DONALD TRUMP BEFORE THE ELECTION, ALBEIT VERY, VERY LATE.

AND IT DID NOTHING.

IT ACTUALLY HELPED TO SOLIDIFY GROUPS OF FOLKS WHO HAVE TRADITIONALISTIC VIEWPOINT OF GENDER ROLES, AND YOU KNOW, BOYS WILL BE BOYS, MEN WILL BE MEN TYPE OF MENTALITY.

SO I DON'T SEE THAT BEING AN ISSUE FOR HERSCHEL WALKER ON TOP OF HIS STATUS IN ICONIC SPACE AS A, YOU KNOW, FOOTBALL HERO HERE IN GEORGIA.

SO YOU HAVE ALL OF THESE DIFFERENT COMPONENTS THAT ADD TO HIS PERSONALITY, THAT ADD TO HIS FAVOR.

AND SO THERE PROBABLY IS A GREAT DEAL OF PEOPLE WHO WILL BE, YOU KNOW, THOSE GOOD CHRISTIANS AND FORGIVE AND SAY, YOU KNOW, THAT WAS HIS PAST.

HE'S LEARNED FROM IT.

HE HAS GROWN.

LOOK AT HE'S DOING NOW.

AND SO, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE MAKE MISTAKES AND HE'S REDEEMED HIMSELF, AND SO WHY NOT GIVE HIM A SECOND CHANCE?

THAT PROBABLY WILL GO INTO THE RATIONALE OF INDIVIDUALS WHO HAVE THAT FORGIVENESS MENTALITY WHEN IT COMES TO CERTAIN PEOPLE IN POLITICS.

>> PATRICIA BEFORE WE LEAVE THE SUBJECT OF HERSCHEL WALKER AND FOR THAT MATTER, DONALD TRUMP, AND HIS RALLY HERE IN GEORGIA LAST SATURDAY NIGHT, I THINK I'M CORRECT -- YOU WILL TELL ME IF I AM NOT -- ALL OF THE OTHER REPUBLICAN CANDIDATES WHO WERE AT THAT RALLY ON THE STAGE AT ONE POINT OR ANOTHER WITH TRUMP, ALL OF THEM WHO HAVE BEEN ENDORSED BY TRUMP, ALL OF THEM, INCLUDING DAVID PERDUE, WHO WENT FURTHER THAN EVER BEFORE APPARENTLY IN TALKING ABOUT THE FAKE ELECTION OF 2020 CLAIMING HE IS GOING TO GO PROSECUTE THOSE WHO WERE RESPONSIBLE FOR FRAUD IN THE ELECTION HERE.

ALL OF THEM WENT THERE EXCEPT HERSCHEL WALKER, RIGHT?

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

HERSCHEL WALKER DOESN'T NEED TO DO THAT.

HE'S ALREADY GOT THESE DONALD TRUMP SUPPORTERS WITH HIM.

I CANNOT REITERATE HOW LOUD THE APPLAUSE WAS.

AND THEN PEOPLE STARTED DOING LIKE THE UGA BARKING SOUND.

HE'S A SUPER STAR IN THAT BASE.

IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT HE DOES.

HE DOESN'T HAVE TO BE AS EXTREME AS TRUMP TO KEEP THE TRUMP VOTERS ON HIS SIDE.

I WILL TELL YOU WHAT I HEARD IN FAYETTEVILLE THAT SURPRISED ME.

DONALD TRUMP DIDN'T LIKE THAT HERSCHEL WALKER IS NOT TALKING TO THE PRESS AND DOESN'T HAVE DEBATES WITH THE GOP.

THAT RAISE AS RED FLAG.

WHAT IS HE HIDING?

WHAT IS HE AFRAID OF?

THERE ARE THOSE WHO SAY IS HE GOING TO BE ABLE TO HANDLE IT AGAINST WARNOCK IF HE CAN'T EVEN HANDLE BLACK OR SAD LEFR.

WHAT IS HE AFRAID OF?

THEY ARE WORRIED THERE IS A BOMBSHELL WAITING FOR REPUBLICANS ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THIS GOP PRIMARY THAT THEY ARE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO FACE AGAINST THE DEMOCRATS.

I FOUND THAT AN INTERESTING COMPONENT.

>> LET'S TAKE A BREAK.

AND THEN WE WILL COME BACK WITH MORE ON TODAY'S "POLITICAL REWIND."

>>> PATRICIA MURPHY, THE JOLT IS OUT THIS MORNING.

AND THE LEAD ITEM IN IT IS PRETTY INTERESTING.

I JUST WANT TO GIVE YOU A SECOND TO TALK ABOUT IT.

SONNY PERDUE STARTS HIS JOB AS CHANCELLOR OF THE UNIVERSITY SYSTEM OF GEORGIA TODAY I GUESS.

AND YOU UNCOVERED HIS -- OR YOU DIDN'T, BUT YOU HAVE GOTTEN AHOLD OF, FROM BRIAN BANNON, WHO SORT OF SEES HIMSELF AS A CITIZEN JOURNALIST, A COPY OF THE RESUME AND THE COVER LETTER THAT PERDUE SUBMITTED TO THE BOARD OF REAGENTS TO GET THE JOB.

JUST GIVE US A COUPLE OF THE HIGHLIGHTS FROM THAT.

>> YEAH.

A COUPLE OF THE HIGHLIGHTS ARE THAT IT'S ALMOST THE FIRST WE HAVE HEARD ABOUT HOW SONNY PERDUE GOT THE JOB.

DID HE NOT GO TO BRIAN KEMP SAYING HE WANTED THE JOB.

APPARENTLY, BRIAN KEMP WENT TO HIM.

SO HE WRITES THAT IN HIS COVER LETTER IN SAYING I WOULDN'T SAY I EXACTLY, QUOTE, WANTED THIS JOB OR PURSUED IT.

BUT WHEN I WAS ASKED ABOUT IT AND ASKED IF I WOULD BE INTERESTED, I DID TELL THEM I JUST WANTED THE BEST CHANCELLOR OUT THERE.

LO AND BEHOLD, NOW BRIAN KEMP CONCEDES HE'S THE BEST PERSON OUT THERE FOR THIS JOB.

IT PAYS $524,000 A YEAR, WHICH IS PRETTY GOOD MONEY, MORE THAN THE GOVERNOR MAKES.

AND ALSO, THE WAY HE PRESENTED HIS OWN PUBLIC SERVICE I FOUND REALLY FASCINATING.

LITERALLY, IT'S HIS RESUME, FUNNY PERDUE HAS A RESUME, BECAUSE YOU HAD TO SUBMIT IT FOR THIS JOB.

UNDER PUBLIC SERVICE HE INCLUDES THE WORK THAT HE DID TO PUT REPUBLICANS IN CONTROL OF THE STATE HOUSE IN GEORGIA AND ALSO TO PUT 33 REPUBLICAN GOVERNORS IN CHARGE OF STATES RIGHT NOW.

ALTHOUGH WE DID NOTE THAT HE WAS HEAD OF THE REPUBLICAN GOVERNOR'S ASSOCIATION AND CAME OUT WITH ONLY 21 REPUBLICAN GOVERNORS AFTER HIS TERM.

SO I DIDN'T WANT TO ACCUSE HIM OF PADDING HIS RESUME, BUT THAT WASN'T EXACTLY ACCURATE.

BUT IT'S JUST ONE OF THE VERY INSIGHTS WE HAVE INTO HOW AND WHY HE WANTS THIS JOB.

I THINK THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WE NEED TO KNOW MORE ABOUT AND THAT GEORGIANS NEED TO KNOW MORE ABOUT.

IT IS AN INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT JOB, OVERSEEING THE UNIVERSITY SYSTEM.

IT IS AT A TIME WHEN IT IS FRAUGHT FOR TEACHERS, ADMINISTRATORS, STUDENTS, AND EVERY HOT BUTTON ISSUE IS FINDING ITS WAY INTO CLASSROOMS RIGHT NOW.

WHAT TEACHERS CAN TEACH, WHO THEY CAN TEACH, WHICH STUDENTS WILL BE ON SPORTS TEAMS?

ALL OF THAT IS IN SONNY PERDUE'S HANDS.

I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT TO KNOW WHY HE WANTED THE JOB, WHAT HE THINKS OF THE ROLE.

WE WILL START TO FIND OUT NOW.

>> HE DIDN'T TALK ABOUT THE POLICIES HE PUT IN PLACE, AT LEAST NOT IN WHAT YOU QUOTED IN YOUR JOLT ITEMS ABOUT IT.

BUT INSTEAD HE TALKED ABOUT THE FACT THAT HE DEFEATED THE INCUMBENT GOVERNOR UNDER PUBLIC SERVICE, DESPITE BEING OUTSPENT $20 MILLION TO $3 MILLION.

HE ALSO SAYS, UNDER PUBLIC SERVICE, THAT HE LED THE GEORGIA REPUBLICAN PARTY OUT OF DECADES IN THE MINORITY.

INTERESTING WAY TO FRAME YOUR PUBLIC POLICIES.

>> ESPECIALLY FOR A JOB THAT HAS TYPICALLY BEEN NON-PARTISAN.

WE WILL SEE HOW SONNY PERDUE FARES IN THAT JOB.

>> ANDRA AND TAMMY, IF YOU WANT, LOOK, WE ALL HOPE THAT SONNY PERDUE, IN FACT, PERFORMS REALLY WELL AS CHANCELLOR.

IT'S TOO IMPORTANT A JOB FOR US NOT TO WISH HIM WELL IN IT.

BUT HE GOES INTO IT UNDER AT LEAST CERTAIN CLOUDS THAT PEOPLE ARE CONCERNED ABOUT, RIGHT, ANDRA?

>> WE WISH HIM WELL.

IT WAS FUNNY.

I LOOKED THROUGH, AS HE CALLED IT A BIO, NOT A CV OR A RESUME, AND THE COVER LETTER.

AND SO, YOU KNOW, I HAVE BEEN ON HIGH LEVEL ADMINISTRATIVE SEARCH COMMITTEES WHERE PEOPLE WHO HAVE OUTSTANDING CREDENTIALS FOLLOW THE STATED FORMAT.

SO I FOUND IT VERY ODD THAT GOVERNOR OR SECRETARY PERDUE, NOW CHANCELLOR PERDUE HADN'T -- DIDN'T USE LIKE TERMAL LETTERHEAD, YOU KNOW, DIDN'T START OFF WITH A SALUTATION IN HIS COVER LETTER.

THE CV STARTED TO LOOK A LITTLE BIT MORE LIKE A CV, BUT IT DIDN'T ALSO, IN THE SAME WAY, WHICH WAS ALSO INTERESTING.

AND THERE WAS A LOT OF LONG EXTENDED PROSE WHERE YOU ARE USED TO SEEING BULLET POINTS.

I THINK THE IRONY IS THAT WHEN PEOPLE WERE APPLYING TO BE SENATOR TO REPLACE JOHNNY ISAKSON, THE KIET THAT LOEFFLER HELD FOR YEAR, PEOPLE INCLUDING MEMBERS OF CONGRESS, PEOPLE WHO WERE VERY WELL KNOWN, FOLLOWED THE STANDARD RESUME FORMAT.

PERDUE DIDN'T DO IT IN THIS PARTICULAR INSTANCE.

I THOUGHT IF I WERE LOOKING FOR THIS IN THE SEARCHES AND I HAVE BEEN ON THE SEARCH FOR A PROVOST AND A DEAN BEFORE, AND IT WASN'T FORMATTED PROPERLY, AND IT WAS A LOT OF TOOTING YOUR OWN HORN AND IT HAD NO PUBLICATIONS ON IT WE WOULD PROBABLY BE LIKE NEXT, LET ME LOOK AT THE NEXT ONE.

IT IS INTERESTING.

SOME OF IT IS GENERATIONAL.

I AM SURE MY MILLENNIAL COLLEAGUE ALSO LOOK AT THE WAY I FORMAT MY RESUME AND SAY THAT'S ANTIQUATED.

AND I LOOK AT THE PEOPLE WHO ARE 20 YEARS OLDER THAN I AM AND I AM LIKE WHY DO YOU DO IT THAT WAY.

I SAW SOME OF THOSE ELEMENTS IN THE RESUMES BEFORE.

THERE WAS SUBSTANCE THERE.

BUT AS AN ACADEMIC, I HAVE QUESTIONS ABOUT A NON-ACADEMIC RUNNING A HIGHER EDUCATION COMMISSION WITHOUT A LOT OF EXPERIENCE.

>> ALL RIGHT.

LET'S MOVE ON, INSTEAD OF CONTINUING ON THAT LINE.

TAMMY, I WILL START WITH YOU ON THIS ONE.

THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT HAS NOW SAID THAT IT IS GOING TO EXPAND ITS INVESTIGATION OF ALL OF THE ELEMENTS OF THE BIG LIE, WHAT FOLLOWED THE 2020 ELECTION, PEOPLE WHO MAY BE IMPLICATED IN PERPETUATING THAT, INTERFERING IN HOW THE ELECTION PROCESS PLAYED OUT IN TERMS OF THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE AND OTHER THINGS.

THEY ARE GOING TO EXPAND IT.

AND ONE OF THE THINGS THEY ARE GOING TO BE LOOKING AT IS THE SLATES OF ESSENTIALLY FAKE ELECTORS THAT WERE CREATED IN A NUMBER OF STATES, INCLUDING GEORGIA, TO GIVE THEIR ELECTORAL VOTES TO DONALD TRUMP, NOT TO THE JOE BIDEN.

AND SO, TAMMY, WHAT WE KNOW, AND IN FACT IT WAS GREG BUS, THE EIN WHO BROKE THIS STORY WHEN IT HAPPENED.

ON THE SAME DAY WHEN THE BIDEN ELECTORS WERE MEETING A THE STATE CAPITAL TO CERTIFY THAT BIDEN HAD BEEN THE WINNER OF GEORGIA'S ELECTION.

BLUESTEIN CAME ACROSS A GROUP OF REPUBLICANS LED BY DAVID CHAFR WHO WERE FORMING THEIR OWN GROUP OF ELECTORS TO CERTIFY, IF THEY HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO, THAT DONALD TRUMP WAS IN FACT ELECTED IN THE STATE OF GEORGIA.

THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN.

NOTHING CAME OF THAT.

BUT D.O.J.

IS NOW LOOKING AT WHETHER OR NOT THAT WAS CRIMINALLY -- THAT WAS CRIMINAL WRONGDOING.

>> RIGHT.

IT'S INTERESTING BECAUSE I HAVE SEEN SOME OF THESE DOCUMENTS THAT SOME OF THESE FAKE ELECTORS HAVE, YOU KNOW, PRODUCED AND SIGNED.

AND AT A GLANCE, THEY LOOK AUTHENTIC, RIGHT?

YET, IT GOES TO THE, YOU KNOW, FALSIFICATION OF GOVERNMENT DOCUMENTS.

RIGHT?

HOW IS THIS NOT INTERFERENCE WITH A LEGAL AND LAWFUL ELECTION?

HOW IS THIS NOT SOME TYPE OF VOTER FRAUD?

RIGHT?

IT HAS ALL OF THESE ELEMENTS TO IT, NOT JUST THE FAKE ELECTORS.

IT'S ALSO THE FOLKS THAT AIDED AND -- PUTTING MONEY TOWARD THESE THAT -- THE JANUARY 6th RALLY, GOES TO PEOPLE WHO HELPED TO SPREAD THE WORD THROUGH DIFFERENT TYPES OF AVENUES.

IT IS A CONSPIRACY, RIGHT, SO LEGALLY THIS IS A CONSPIRACY, PEOPLE WORKED TOGETHER TO COMMIT SOME TYPE OF AN ILLEGAL ACT.

IN THIS CASE, IT IS FRAUD.

SO IT IS VERY INTERESTING TO SEE HOW FAR THE D.O.J.

GOES WHEN IT COMES TO THIS TYPE OF CRIMINAL ACTIVITY OR ALLEGED CRIMINAL ACTIVITY BY THESE INDIVIDUALS ON THIS LEGAL AND LAWFUL ELECTION THAT WE ARE STILL TALKING ABOUT YEARS AFTER THE CURRENT PRESIDENT, YOU KNOW, WAS INAUGURATED AND HAS BEEN IN OFFICE.

I WAS GOING TO SAY ONE MORE THING, BILL.

SOME OF -- I REALLY ENJOY WATCHING FRANK LUNTZ WHEN HE DOES POST POLLING AND WHEN HE DOES FOCUS GROUPS.

RIGHT?

AND A LOT OF THE POINTS THAT COME ACROSS WITH THE INDIVIDUALS THAT HE HAS AS PART OF THESE FOCUS GROUPS, YOU CAN SEE HOW THE LANGUAGE THAT IS BEING USED BY SOME OF THESE ELECTED OFFICIALS -- WHETHER IT IS JUSTIFYING, LET'S SAY, HERSCHEL WALKER'S BEHAVIORS, OR WHEN IT COMES TO JANUARY 6th -- YOU CAN SEE HOW THESE WORDS ARE REPEATED.

AND I THINK IT IS VERY IMPORTANT FOR TO US PAY CLOSE ATTENTION NOT ONLY TO WHAT THE ELECTED OFFICIALS ARE SAYING.

ALSO WHAT FOLKS WHO ARE IN, YOU KNOW, FOCUS GROUPS AND EVERYDAY INDIVIDUALS, WHAT THEY ARE SAYING.

BECAUSE IT'S A MIRROR.

AND WE HAVE TO FIND SOME TYPE OF WAY TO START, YOU KNOW, BRINGING IN TRUTH IN SOME OF THESE SPACES.

IF NOT, I DON'T SEE HOW JANUARY 6th WOULD NOT HAPPEN AGAIN.

>> PATRICIA, JUST TO BE CLEAR ABOUT WHAT D.O.J.

MAY HAVE TO LOOK AT HERE IS ON THE SAME DAY -- I THINK IT IS DECEMBER 14th.

IF I'M WRONG, MAYBE YOU WILL CORRECTLY.

THAT THE BIDEN ELECTORS SET OFF TO THE NATIONAL ARCHIVES, WHICH IS WHERE THE CERTIFICATE GOES THEIR OFFICIAL CERTIFICATION THAT THE ELECTION WAS WON BY JOE BIDEN, THE TRUMP FAKE ELECTORS CREATED THE SAME DOCUMENT, ALSO SENT IT TO THE NATIONAL ARCHIVES SAYING THEY WERE THE OFFICIAL ELECTORS WHICH IS WHERE THEY ARE VULNERABLE, POTENTIALLY FOR D.O.J.

TO LOOK AT CRIMINAL CHARGES.

>> YEAH.

IT IS GOING TO BE REALLY IMPORTANT TO KNOW WHAT THESE ELECTIONORS WERE TOLD WHEN THEY PARTICIPATED IN THE PROCESS.

ONE LEGISLATOR BASED IN COLUMBUS SAID HE WAS TOLD THIS WAS KIND OF JUST A PLAN B, IN CASE THE JUDICIAL PROCESS COMES BACK AND SLIPS -- FLIPS THIS ELECTION QUICKLY.

HE WAS TOLD WE WILL HAVE THIS JUST IN CASE.

OTHERS WERE TOLD SOMETHING DIFFERENT.

AND WE KNOW THERE WAS AN INTENTION AT OTHER LEVELS TO OVERTURN THE ELECTION BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY AND DO IT FLEW A CONSPIRACY WHICH HAS BEEN CHARGED FOR SEDITION.

IS THIS A PART OF THAT?

DID THE ELECTORS KNOW THEY WERE PART OF THAT?

WERE THEY TOLD SOMETHING DIFFERENT?

I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT TO HAVE AN INVESTIGATION AND FIND OUT MORE ABOUT THE INTENT HERE.

DAVID SCHAEFFER WAS DEEPLY INVOLVED IN THE STOP THE STEAL EVIDENT FROM TOP TO BOTTOM.

OTHER MEMBERS OF THE GEORGIA SENATE WERE INVOLVED AS WELL.

THESE ELECTORS, I THINK WE NEED TO KNOW MORE ABOUT, AND KNOW MORE ABOUT WHY THEY WERE THERE.

>> PATRICIA, I THINK ABOUT DAVID SCHAEFFER WHO EVERYONE THOUGHT WAS GOING TO BE THE REPUBLICAN NOMINEE FOR LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR HE WAS UPSET BY DUNCAN.

HAD DAVID SCHAEFFER ENDED UP WINNING THE RACE FOR LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR AND BEEN THE LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR NOW HE MAY STILL HAVE BEEN IN THE TRUMP CAMP BUT YOU HAVE TO WONDER HOW HIS CAREER AND HIS POLITICS SORT OF CHANGED AFTER THAT REALLY DRAMATIC LOSS.

DO YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN.

>> YOU ALSO HAVE TO THINK, WHAT IF JEFF DUNCAN WAS NOT THE LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR AND IT WAS DAVID SCHAEFFER?

DUNCAN PLAYED A BIG PART IN SPEAKING OUT AGAINST THE STOP THE STEAL.

HE WAS ON CNN.

HE WAS ON FOX.

HE WAS ON EVERY CHANNEL AVAILABLE TO SAY, THIS IS NOT TRUE.

HE ALSO WAS A BIG PART OF PUTTING DOWN THE EFFORT TO HAVE A SPECIAL SESSION TO DRAFT NEW RULES TO BE RETROACTIVE TO THE 2020 ELECTION.

SO WHAT IF IT HAD BEEN DAVID SCHAEFFER?

WHAT IF WE HAD THE LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR SAYING, YES, EVERYTHING DONALD TRUMP IS SAYING IS TRUE?

THAT I THINK WOULD HAVE BEEN HAD A MEANINGFUL DIFFERENCE.

IT IS A LITTLE SCARY TO THINK ABOUT WHAT MIGHT HAVE HAPPENED THEN, A FIGHT BETWEEN THE GOVERNOR AND THE LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR.

>> WITH THAT, WE HAVE COMPLETELY RUN OUT OF TIME FOR TODAY'S EDITION OF "POLITICAL REWIND."

PROFESSOR ANDRA GILLESPIE, PROFESSOR TAMMY GRIER, PATRICIA MURPHY, THANK YOU FOR A WONDERFUL CONVERSATION ON THE SHOW TODAY.

AS WE COME TO THE END, IF YOU ARE WATCHING US ON THE TV VERSION OF OUR SHOW, OF THIS SEASON'S TV VERSION OF "POLITICAL REWIND," I WANT TO THANK THE WONDERFUL CREW THAT HAS BROUGHT US ONTO THE TV SIDE OF THINGS HERE, DENNIS BUCHANAN, ALEX WORD, JUMP BUNK, AARON ROTHWELL, JAMES TURNER, MATTHEW WOLFE.

I AM VERY GRATEFUL, AND REGAN SMITH THANK YOU FOR WORK THAT YOU HAVE DONE, AND OF COURSE JESSE NICE WANGER, NATALIE MENDEL HALL, SANDRA, WHO WILL CONTINUE WORKING WITH ME ON THE RADIO VERSION OF "POLITICAL REWIND" WHICH YOU CAN HERE AT 9:00 AND 2:00 EVERY WEEKDAY, AND WHICH YOU CAN ALSO LISTEN TO AT GPB.ORG OR ON OUR FACEBOOK PAGE AS GPB AS WELL.

THAT DOES IT FOR THIS EDITION OF "POLITICAL REWIND."

THANK YOU FOR BEING WITH US.

WE WILL SEE YOU AGAIN ON MONDAY, THE 40th DAY, THE FINAL DAY OF THE LEGISLATIVE SESSION FOR 2022.

I'M BILL NIGUT.

UNTIL NEXT WEEK, TAKE CARE, AND PLEASE STAY HEALTHY.

BYE-BYE.