- [Announcer] Montana Ag Live is made possible by the Montana Department of Agriculture, MSU Extension, the MSU Ag Experiment Stations of the College of Agriculture, the Montana Wheat and Barley Committee, Cashman Nursery and Landscaping, the Northern Pulse Growers Association, and the Gallatin Gardeners Club.

(instrumental music) - Good evening and welcome to Montana Ag Live originating at night from the studios at KUSM on the very dynamic campus we call Montana State University and coming to you over your Montana Public Television system.

I'm Jack Riesselman, retired professor of plant pathology.

Happy to be your host this evening.

We have kind of a little theme this fall.

For years, both ranching and production agriculture, farming in particular, have gotten a bad name for not being good conservationists.

But over the last 20 years, I would disagree with that because most of the people I see now that are successful in farming and ranching practice good conservation.

And as a result, their production has improved.

So a combination of the two really kinda work and we're gonna look at that.

All fall, we've got several producers coming in.

We have some agencies, conservation groups.

I think you'll enjoy this fall series because we're really gonna show you that conservation and agriculture can coexist for the benefit of all those involved.

So before we get started this evening, let me introduce the panel.

I borrowed Frank Etzler from Montana Department of Agriculture.

Frank is an entomologist with the Department of Ag, graduate from Montana State University.

Frank's been willing to step in and tell some of our new entomologists some stuff.

We'll show up here eventually.

Special guest tonight.

We actually have two of them.

From Trout Unlimited, and Trout Unlimited is one of those conservation organizations that's really does a great job working with both ranchers and farmers here in the state.

The first person is Clayton Elliott.

Clayton is the director of public policy and the other person is Ryen Neudecker.

Ryen has a kind of an interesting history.

Her grandfather was Torley Aasheim here at MSU.

And all those who know a little bit of history about Montana State University know Torley.

David Baumbauer.

Dave is our plant growth Center manager.

He also is very knowledgeable in horticulture.

So if you have questions concerning horticulture, you can call those in tonight.

Before we get started, I have to make kind of a confession.

When I first moved out here in 1979, my favorite trout pattern was Nightcrawlers.

Now I have to admit, I've learned over the years that these are not quite as acceptable as Woolly Buggers, Hare's Ears, all these other midges that you might use.

So I've given these up and I did pick up a fly rod.

So I have to admit that I did change.

But with a name like Catfish which is my email, Catfish Jack, you know that I grew up in the Midwest and that's what I used to fish for.

I'm gonna turn it over to Ryen and Ryen's gonna tell you a little bit how Trout Unlimited works with conservation groups, with farmers, with ranchers.

She's with the Blackfoot Chapter of TU which is located in North Central part of the state, Ovando, Seeley Lake, Helmville area.

Ryen, tell us what you do up there.

- All right.

Thanks, Jack.

Yeah, so I've been working in the Blackfoot since 2002 and I work for the local chapter of Trout Unlimited and our mission is to restore and conserve the cold water fishery of the Blackfoot and its tributaries.

And Montana's a wild trout state.

And what that means is we don't stock into our rivers and streams.

And so if we're gonna have viable, self-sustaining populations of trout, we have to have the habitat to support that.

And some of the most biologically productive land in the Blackfoot is on private land.

And so our key partners are private landowners.

And so we work with them and also our state and federal partners on developing projects that are going to restore what we call the four Cs.

Cold water, clean water, connected water.

Meaning, these fish are highly...

They move a long ways.

They're migratory.

We've documented movements of over 100 miles.

So making sure they have access to get to where they need to go.

And then the four C is complex habitat.

And what we like to talk about in addition to the four Cs are the most... Maybe the most important C is collaboration.

And we have an awesome team of federal, state, and private partners working together to put these projects on the ground as efficiently as we can.

- You know, I saw some of those projects this summer up in the Helmville area and I'm very impressed.

Clayton, you do the public relations work.

How do you interact with farmers and ranchers?

- Well, thanks again for having me, Jack, and it's a honor to be here and be here with Ryen, a coworker of mine.

And I often joke that she and my coworkers are the lucky ones that get to wear waders to work and I get stuck in a suit and tie.

But a lot of the work that is done on the ground requires partnerships not but also in places like Helena and Washington DC.

And so connecting agricultural groups working on private land conservation is a really critical component for us to be able to gain the policies.

As you might imagine, some of these present complex water law questions as well as the funding, which is a lot of the work that I do in Helena and in DC, but it's finding those government to support keeping production agriculture on the ground while also benefiting conservation.

And so it's important to have a voice in Helena.

I'm happy to work with a lot of ag groups up there as we are working through the complex legislative process and the appropriations process.

But agriculture is really a key partner in the public policy arena as well as when you get to local places like the Blackfoot Valley or closer to where I live in Butte in Southwest Montana.

And the Big Hole is a great example as well.

- Okay, thank you.

Folks, we have Nancy Blake here in the studio this evening.

Nancy is taking phone calls.

So if you have questions, absolutely a good time to get him in.

The phone's not busy right now.

And remotely, we have Judge Bruce Lobo.

He used to be our chief water court judge and he fills in by answering the telephone for Montana Ag Live quite commonly.

Question from Bozeman.

Dave, quickly...

This person has got a bunch of trees.

How do they get them ready for winter?

They're absolutely two or three years old.

- Great.

So now's the time to think about prepping your trees and shrubs for winter.

And so what we wanna do is we wanna make sure that they go into winter with adequate reserves, but you don't really wanna fertilize them now.

We don't wanna encourage new growth.

And especially with deciduous trees and shrubs, it's probably... You know, if they're getting irrigated with your lawn, it's time to cut back on that irrigation.

You need to harden them off.

So like a little minor drought stress is a good thing to do.

And so our goal is so that the tissue is toughened up.

and hopefully can withstand those first cold snaps that are been so...

Seem like so frequent when we get a nice, nice fall.

And then sometime in mid-October it goes below zero and that's really damaging.

And I'm a little concerned.

I mean, you drive around the state.

It's still green.

I was in the Yellowstone Park yesterday at high elevation and it's still green.

- The entire state, pastures and everything, is amazingly green for this time of year.

And that tells you we had good winter moisture that didn't run off.

A lot of it just soaked into the ground, I believe.

- So anyway, toughen them up.

- Well, and we've lost trees, a lot of trees because people don't do that.

We've got a question here for Ryen and Clayton here in a minute.

But before we get there, a question came in for Frank.

Why are there so many miller moths around this year?

Any idea on that?

- I would say it's the moisture that you were just talking about.

So it's been a very wet year this year and they often migrate up to higher elevations to feed.

So that means where they were as cutworms, they had a lot to eat.

So there's a lot that made it to adulthood and now they're migrating to feed for the winter and then they'll migrate back.

- The interesting thing about miller moths, did you know that they're number one... One of the number one foods for grizzly bears?

- Yes.

So that's why it's not a bad thing that there's a lot of them this year.

So that ties directly to grizzly bear conservation.

- [David] So how do they overwinter?

- I would say probably as eggs or pupae in the soil.

- So you get multiple generations in Montana?

- Not in Montana.

Not really in Montana.

They'll come into Montana.

You'll have one generation in Montana.

But a lot of them migrate back to where they're from.

- [Jack] Midwest?

- Yeah, mostly the Midwest.

- [Jack] Midwest, yeah.

- So I think we have some populations even down from Canada, so Alberta and Saskatchewan, that come in.

So there's some research being done here to kinda figure out where exactly they're all coming from.

- There's plenty of them this year.

- Yes.

- I'll say that.

If you open the door and they're everywhere.

A question from Dillon and I'll let Ryen jump on this first of all, and Clayton you can jump in too.

This person is a little bit intimidated about working with conservation organizations.

Not only TU but but other organizations.

Is there a reason that they should be intimidated?

I don't think there is.

You guys are pretty easy to work with.

- Yeah.

Well, our programs are completely voluntary and what we're trying to do is just find solutions to problems that are affecting both a landowner's operation and the fishery.

So for example, we've worked with landowners of their...

The culvert that goes under their ranch road.

You know, for access.

It keeps washing out.

Well, the culvert is too small.

So, we have programs to come in and upgrade those or they're losing a lot of their hay fields due to stream bank erosion.

And so we sit down with landowners and come up with solutions, listen to... You know, everybody has a chance to bring their objectives and we come up with solutions and there's so many different programs to help cover those costs.

And... Yeah, so again just trying to meet multiple values.

- Follow up question.

This person would like to know if they work with a conservation organization like Trout Unlimited and they accept funding to improve their operation, do they have to let everybody on their ground to go fishing?

- Yeah, so we do not require any public fishing access.

And kinda the unique thing about Wild Trout that we've learned over the years is...

So for example, cutthroat trout.

They spend most of their time in the river, the big Blackfoot River.

And the tributaries that we're primarily working on are on private land.

So the fish are living in the river and then when it comes time in the spring for them to start moving and going up to spawn, they're gonna access these tributaries and they spend a relatively little amount of time on private land.

So the programs that...

The projects that we implement are geared towards trying to correct issues at a local level to impact the larger river with recruitment and increasing population.

So again, there's no need to... You know, there's no requirement to allow access.

I've found that a lot of landowners are proud of the work that they're doing and they wanna show it off.

And if you ask permission, a lot of times they'll let you fish.

But again, the projects are serving the larger river and the recruitment of fisheries there.

- Okay, I have a question here.

We'll come back to you and then I'll get to that in a little bit.

But overriding question, and I've had a couple calls on this.

These callers are concerned about the reduction in trout populations in several of our Southwest rivers.

They well would like to know, do you have an explanation?

And I know Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks is working on it.

I know PBS has got a special coming up Thursday evening on it.

We'll get your opinion.

You guys are experts in that area.

I put you on the spot.

- Well, I'm happy to take a swing at it.

But I think the overarching answer is we don't know yet.

I think one thing that we can certainly infer is if you talk to production agriculture out there in southwest Montana or anglers, you're gonna hear that we've been through a series of really rough water years.

The pattern of that hydrograph has been changing and we are seeing less water.

So what it appears and research from Montana State University and the United States Geological Survey seems to correlate that decreased flow and warmer temperatures with the reduction in trout population across southwest Montana from the Madison all the way to the Clark Fork and even some of the upper Bitterroot.

So we have a good sense that it's really related to decreased flows and warmer temperatures.

I think one interesting fact just on the Big Hole, backyard river on the Big Hole, we used to see those fall... That restoration of flow happening right early September, that the flow would start to come back.

Over the last three to five years, it's been closer to Halloween.

So we're moving that sort of resumption of flow back from that critical period later into the year.

So, that stressful time is getting longer and longer.

And I joke as a lobbyist, those of us who work in the capitol are often kinda sick because we're all crammed together in And that's kinda what's happened to our fish.

They may be exposed to pathogens at a greater level because they are in a stressful period in a smaller confined space.

So I'm excited that Department of Fish, Wildlife and Parks is partnering with Montana State Universities to do some more research on the life history, some of the stuff that Ryen talked about in the Blackfoot where we have a good handle on where these fish are accessing different parts of their life as well as the mortality side to better understand it.

And the angular impact study to better assess the role that angling is playing in this.

But I think today we know that it's related to drought, lower water, warmer water temperatures.

And certainly, as we were talking, this summer with the rain that we've been having in the last month or two has brightened all of our moods and hopeful, but it's gonna take time to a series of good water years to get back.

- That makes good sense.

The brown trout numbers are down because they normally I believe...

I'm no expert in this.

Don't they spawn in September and early October?

- Yeah.

That factoid that I was just talking about that pushing back of resumption of flow into later in the year, leaving lower, more critical water conditions into that September-October time period perfectly overlaps with brown trout spawning periods on most of the rivers in southwest Montana.

So, their critical life history point of that spawning is now confined to a smaller, warmer water, less ideal conditions.

And that recruitment is gonna continue to play out.

- What triggers spawning?

How do they know when to... - Yeah, and Ryen might be better to answer this question.

As I understand it, it's related to water temperature primarily.

- Yeah, and then hydro crops too a little bit.

Yeah.

- You know, I've got a couple questions for both you guys on the end of the table.

But before we get to those, you brought a couple slides along to show what stream restoration project looks like and whether or not it helps the production ag or the ranching.

So Paul, if we could pull those up on the screen here.

And before we get to those, I'm gonna ask Frank real quickly, why do we have so many mosquitoes this year?

- Well, as a common theme of the night, we've had a lot of moisture.

So if you have a lot of moisture on your property and some standing water, any standing water is fertile breeding ground for mosquitoes.

So get rid of that standing water on your property and you'll have less mosquitoes.

- [Jack] Okay.

And I will say we had more West Nile Virus this year.

- Very true.

- Both for horses and for people, I believe.

- [Frank] Yeah, and birds too.

Birds.

- And birds?

- [Frank] Yeah, they're impacted a lot by West Nile.

- Okay, we're trying to get that up on the screen here for Ryen and we'll get it here in a minute.

But question for you, why can't we...

There we are.

I'll get to you in a minute.

I'll let Ryen talk about what's going on here.

- Yeah, well, this is a solar panel system that pumps water into a stock tank.

And so a lot of our work with private landowners is involving grazing management systems to help kind of recover riparian areas and help rejuvenate the uplands.

So this was a project we did near Ovando.

- [Jack] Okay, can we see the next one?

What else do we have coming up here?

We're a little slow on the visuals today.

Question for you.

No, it's back.

Okay.

We'll jump back and forth there, folks.

- [Ryen] Yeah, this was a stock tank that that solar system was supplying.

- [Jack] Okay.

- [David] Why is there wood over it?

- Yeah, it's just part of the recommendation with livestock accessing it and protecting the tank and that kind of stuff.

- [David] Keeps the cattle from swimming.

- Right, exactly.

Yeah.

- [Jack] Hey, it's warmed up.

They like to cool themselves down.

- [David] Okay.

- [Jack] Let's take a look at some of the stream restoration work that's been done.

This is pretty impressive to me.

- [Ryen] So this is a before photo on Nevada Creek.

This was a reach that we collectively restored in 2019.

And in seven years, the landowner had lost seven acres of ground due to just bank erosion.

And you can see on the bottom there, there's some rip rap.

And this used to be a tool used to protect stream banks, but we've learned over the years that the rock actually just causes more issues because the energy from the water can't be absorbed on the bank.

So then that energy is sent downstream and then you can't have your willows and cottonwoods becoming established.

So we came in and restored this reach.

To date, we've restored about six miles of stream in Nevada Creek.

And then there's I think a before after or before photo coming- - Lets see what the next one looks like.

It looks a little nicer to me.

- Yeah.

So this is that photo point just showing the before and after again.

Again, trying to restore that stream to the right pattern, the way it meanders through a valley, the right width, the depths, Making sure it's connected to its floodplain.

And then we work with volunteers and do a lot of willow cuttings.

It's a great way to engage people that are interested in stream restoration, but we also bring out a lot of school kids and they can actually be physically a part of a project which is nice.

- Are there 4-H programs that utilize the stream restoration projects?

- You know, we haven't worked with any 4-H programs.

But I know there's a lot of great 4-H work done, but we do work with all the local schools in the valley.

- Okay, Sounds great.

Dave, I'm coming back to you.

I like this question from Bozeman.

Why can't we grow huckleberries in gardens?

- So, it's interesting.

Huckleberries have defied domestication and it's just really a fascinating... We don't really know why.

You know, is it a relationship with mychorrizae fungi?

There was a professor at University of Montana when I was a graduate student there back in the early eighties and this was her pet project, was to try to domesticate huckleberries.

And it's just really fascinating.

I mean, it's close-related to blueberries.

We can grow blueberries domestically, obviously.

But huckleberries, no.

- You know, that's always fascinated me.

Forever you couldn't grow morel mushrooms.

But now the Chinese and also the Danes have figured out how to grow morel mushrooms.

So your project is, why don't you figure out how to grow huckleberries?

- No, I'm going fishing now.

(panelists laugh) - You're retiring, I think.

Not quite.

Okay.

From Twin Bridges.

This fisherman would like to know if all these restoration programs add to the economy of local communities.

You guys wanna jump on that?

- I'm happy to take the first swing and then Ryen can probably provide a direct, in-her-own-community experience.

But when I talk about these restoration projects at the state legislature and with lawmakers, one of the things I talk about is that they are win, win, win.

First that they're good for production agriculture 'cause we're often solving a problem on a agricultural operation, fixing a diversion, improving irrigation efficiency, something.

Second, they're improving fish habitat.

And that's certainly what got us in the door.

But third, we're often hiring local contractors.

And a project that we did, this is an example I often use down in Superior, Montana was hiring a contractor right there in Superior so that the jobs that were created by the project were right there in the local community.

So, recycling those dollars whether we're pulling together federal, state, local grants, private dollars all coming together and spent right in the community.

I'm sure Ryen has examples in the Blackfoot Valley as well.

- Yeah, I'm going for Ryen.

- Yeah, well... You know, big picture of the Blackfoot is one of these world famous blue ribbon trout streams, right?

So there's lots of people coming to fish the river and that's supporting the local bread and breakfast and the local restaurants and lodges.

But the reason that the fishery is doing so well is because of all the collaborative restoration work that has taken place.

And I think one of the reasons that the projects have been so successful is we are able to hire local contractors and consultants that have the right level of experience and education and equipment to put these projects on the ground.

And a lot of the contractors that we work with live in the Blackfoot.

They're local.

Everyone that we work with lives in Montana.

So when we actually... You know, we have a...

In Seeley, we have a company that they build our fish grains for us.

So again, keeping the work local is really important.

And we've been able to...

So we have, for example, contracts with like the forest service to hire contractors.

And because we can keep the bureaucracy to a minimum, we've been able to show about a 30% across the board savings between using a government contract versus just staying local.

So all of that I think is really important to the success of the program.

- You know, Trout Unlimited has really become synonymous with conservation here in the state.

And talking to ranchers, I've gotten to know a lot more ranchers since I retired, they speak very highly of the work that you guys do.

I have one question here.

Tell us a couple other examples of what you've done in the state to help both conservation and production ag.

- Yeah, I'll take the first swing at that.

I mean, I think that a lot of our legislative work and work in the state capital is a good example.

I mean, obviously being good partners when it is good for fish is important.

But as we navigate the water rights process, I can't find a better ally than production agriculture.

So currently, the state of Montana is going through a comprehensive water review as we're going through the process of revisiting the Montana Water Use Act almost 50 years later and how it can work better in today's world.

What we find more often than not is as we're going through water rights transactions and running into hurdles, folks in the agriculture community who might be trying to change a place of use or change a point of diversion are running into the exact same hurdles that we are in state agencies.

So we came together to work on House Bill 114 which was signed into law by Governor Gianforte this spring.

Really proud of the work we did together to help make that process work better.

We had projects that were 12 years in backlog going through the water rights change.

If you were a family business trying to make a go of it, can you wait 12 years?

No.

So anyways, we've come together to solve common problems.

They may look a little bit differently, but I think what you've seen is... You know, maybe 20-30 years ago when you saw TU and agriculture being at odds with each other in the public policy process, you've seen it very different... See it very different today.

So, that's an example.

In policy, I think we do a lot together.

- Yeah, I would agree entirely.

Frank, I have a question here that came in via email and they've learned or asked about Asian Long-horned beetles.

And I asked you ahead of time to bring in an example.

So look at some of these bugs and they're not Woolly Buggers or whatever, but they look like big trout patterns to me.

- Yeah, so I've also had some calls to the Department of Agriculture that came in asking about the Asian Long-horned beetle.

So I have some right here with me if we can zoom in here.

So this is the Asian Long-horned beetle.

So this is the invasive species right here.

It is different from some of the native species that we'll see.

It's smoother and a little bit larger.

So I have some natives here that are very similar in shape and color.

So, they're Long-horned beetles.

So if you see this male right here, it has a longer antennae.

These ones belong to the genus Monochamus.

And right now is the perfect fly season.

So if you see something similar to this flying around, unless it's smooth, it is most likely Monochamus and native.

- [Jack] They do a lot of damage to aspen trees as I remember.

Is that correct or am I wrong?

- The native ones actually do mostly pine and conifers.

The Asian Long-horned, that one will attack your deciduous trees.

- All right.

Appreciate it.

From Lincoln, a caller asks who pays for the creek restoration project on Nevada Creek and other private land?

So yeah, let's talk funding in a little bit, how this happens.

Ryen, I'll let you jump on it first.

- Well, so the...

Typically all of these projects have a multitude of funding partners involved.

So for the project that we're working on this summer, it's very similar to past phases of Nevada Creek.

We have federal funding.

So we have US Fish and Wildlife Service partners for fish and wildlife.

We actually have...

It's the State of Montana's Future Fisheries Program which is through Fish, Wildlife and Parks.

That's been another key player.

Montana Department of Environmental Quality.

They have the TMDL, Total Maximum Daily Load Program.

They're 319 funding program.

We have some private foundations.

We have actually other TU chapters helping And then a big part of it actually is just match from private landowners.

So when we're out on these projects, we need a lot of gravel and sod mats and willow cuttings.

And so they're letting us take all that material from their ground.

We've also worked with local loggers to get pulp wood that doesn't have much of a market value now, but we can actually use that wood and that's part of our stream bank treatment.

So a variety of funding sources and it takes a whole team of biologists, grazing management specialists, water right experts.

You know, you name it.

A lot of people involved.

- Well- - So- - [Jack] Yeah, you go ahead.

- Well, those pictures, that's only three years.

- Yeah.

- That was stunning.

Can you just give us an idea of like step by step?

I mean, that was...

I was stunned that it was that fast to see that, even just the vegetation let alone.

Yeah, it was amazing.

- Yeah, well, we work with hydrologists and engineers.

That was a company out of Whitefish River Design Group.

And our approach on stream restoration is trying to mimic mother nature.

So we rely on what we call reference reaches.

So we're finding an area on Nevada Creek or a very similar stream type and matching those dimensions on our project and then looking at the flow data.

But we've had a lot of years of practice and we learn something... We learn something with every project.

So, we're trying to get better with each phase.

But the key is if you're not connected to your floodplain, then you're gonna have issues.

But we're just basically trying to set these stream systems up with a lot of data to be able to understand how can we put this project on the ground and walk away from it and this system is resilient and can be a stream and the nearby hay field is no longer eroding away.

- Dumb question.

Connected to your floodplain.

- Yeah.

- What does that really mean?

What is that?

- So in the spring when we have a big pulse of water coming down through these drainages, the channel dimensions aren't... You know, they can't accommodate all of that water.

So you need to get that water out up onto the floodplain.

So, the riparian area is near the stream.

And if a stream system, if it's too deep, if it's entrenched, we call it, and if it can't access its floodplain, then all that water gets pushed onto the banks and then that's when it starts to erode.

So, the floodplain connection is key for dissipating energy, for allowing sediment to deposit on the floodplain, and that's where we see a lot of these young willows and cottonwood start to emerge.

So yeah, that's kind of the key behind that.

- I'm gonna follow up a little bit on his.

I mean, I was around here in the eighties where a lot of the Gallatin feeder streams served as cattle habitat and they got worn out big time.

So when you do a project, say up on Nevada Creek, do you make an agreement with the producers or the ranchers that they cannot have their cattle in the creek?

How's that work?

- Yeah, so every project is unique with its grazing management plan.

But what we typically are looking at is because those stream banks are...

I guess, they're a little raw after we construct, right?

It takes a while for the vegetation to the sod mats, the willows.

So those are typically rested from livestock grazing for a period of time, 5 to 10 years.

But then some landowners would like the riparian are excluded and others would like to see riparian pastures incorporated.

So, it's working with them specifically on what their preference is based on what their operation is.

But yeah, the whole point is just to rest it for a recovery timeframe.

But you know, a lot of landowners wanna get in there and do some different levels of grazing once they can, so.

- Okay, thank you.

Frank, this person has heard about some kind of new wasp that's moved in from Eton, Georgia.

Do you know anything about that or do we need to be concerned here about that?

- Yeah, so there is a new invasive wasp.

So it was detective in Georgia.

It's from Asia.

It's a yellow-legged wasp, the Asian yellow legged wasp.

It is a predator of honeybees.

It's tropical mostly in its distribution in Asia.

So I don't think we necessarily need to worry about it here in Montana, but we are keeping our eyes out for it.

- Okay.

Dave, a quick one from Bozeman.

This person purchased some broccoli from a local greenhouse this year and it didn't produce broccoli heads.

It just formed some kind of what they said was a clump of floret.

Not like normal broccoli.

Any thought what might be happening there?

- Well, it's interesting.

Broccoli could be sensitive to like a heat trigger or whatever.

And I'm also wondering, could it have been a viral response?

- Or a variety of response, you know?

Some plants react differently to warm springs, cold springs.

I don't know.

I'd like to see a sample of that.

- Yeah.

- Yeah, just out of curiosity.

Clayton, does Trout Unlimited work with NRCS or other agencies to adopt more efficient irrigation systems so they reduce the amount of water for irrigation that producers use?

Any programs on that?

- Yeah, there are a number of programs and agencies both at the state and federal level that help facilitate and fund work to provide efficiencies in agriculture or in irrigation through agriculture.

At the state level, the renewable resource grant loan program is a great example as well as we're trying to find irrigation efficiencies.

For us, obviously that nexus that we talked about is helping to keep more water in the stream and protect that instream flow.

But at the same time, we're often providing a lot of cost savings and efficiencies to the producer as well.

Whether it's moving maybe a point of diversion from a tributary to the main stem so that we're not dewatering that tributary and those fish can move up into that tributary at a critical period or move back out at a critical period.

And maybe that temperature change is very critical to where we're taking warmer water and leaving the colder water in the stream system.

That's a project we're working on down in the Jefferson.

So yes, there are a lot of programs out there.

I'm more familiar with the state level ones.

Renewable resource grant loan program through DNRC is a great example of one where you're trying to build that efficiency and because it's good for water.

Obviously, in a state like Montana, we've always been fighting or collaborating over water shortage.

But I think now as climate change is moving our hydrographs around, we're having increased supply.

Efficiencies and irrigation in all water use is gonna be an increasingly important topic.

- I agree entirely.

Question again from Lincoln.

The caller wants to know whether fish on the upper Blackfoot are still suffering from previous arsenic issues or is the fish population improving?

Any information on that, Ryen?

- Well, I wish our state fisheries biologist was here.

But you know, there's been a lot of efforts in the upper watershed with the Mike Horse Mine cleanup.

So, I'm not aware of any direct... You know, any known issues right now at Trout, but yeah.

- The population...

I don't know the Blackfoot, that area.

I was there this summer.

Totally impressed with it.

Fish population's pretty healthy on the Blackfoot?

- Yeah, so we call our native trout the canary in the coalmine, the indicator of how well the habitat is functioning.

And the cutthroat numbers are... From 1987 to today, the average increase is about 800% increase.

- [Jack] Amazing.

- Yeah, I think it...

Even in the face of some pretty severe drought years, this collaborative work that so many people are working on is really making a difference for these fish.

- Okay.

Another comment here when we talk about funding.

This person would also like you guys to mention that there are a lot of banquets and stuff and individual people that contribute to TU that help fund this.

And I'm gonna ask you a question because I've been involved with a lot of conservation organizations through the year.

What percentage of the dollars that your organization raise actually goes into conservation projects?

- Yeah.

So the private donation piece is huge.

For every dollar that we get privately, we can match that with $11 of federal funding.

So our little chapter, we were doing all of our own fundraising and the folks that support us privately, that's a huge piece of this.

- Yeah, and they're pretty proud of it too.

And they need to be.

Frank, he's a farmer from Great Falls.

He says he is getting ready to seed winter wheat and the dealer is pushing insecticidal seed treatments.

Does he need them or does he not?

- So, what county is he?

- [Jack] It would be Cascade, Great Falls area.

- Okay.

So it really depends on what kind of seed treatment it is.

But it could be for wireworms, is that probably what I would- - [Jack] I would assume.

- I would guess that would be the case.

And I would say it depends on his history in the field or their history in the field.

If they've had a big wireworm issue in the past, I would go for it.

If not, I guess you wouldn't really need it.

So.

- Yeah, I'm a firm believer in seed treatments.

I've seen over the years both fungicidal and insecticidal seed treatments.

- [Frank] Okay.

- For the cost, it's pretty insignificant.

And when wheat prices are where they are today, I would go ahead and use the seed treatments.

- [Frank] You don't wanna impact that yield.

- Okay.

Yeah, you're right.

I agree entirely.

From Philipsburg.

This person would like to know if TU has done any work in the Philipsburg area?

- Yes, absolutely.

So through our project work, the upper Clark Fork...

Entire upper Clark Fork has been a priority area.

Obviously, I live in Butte.

So, right at the top of the Clark Fork.

But the Flint Creek drainage has been one particularly of concern and part of all of the Clark Fork work and the Blackfoot is one of the primary tributaries is trying to better understand these migratory fish patterns.

Cutthroat trout, I think some of those fish that they've documented in the Clark Fork system are moving upwards of a hundred miles between various points in their life history.

So every tributary is critically important.

Flint Creek obviously had a lot of mining history and the Philipsburg area.

So there have been both efforts on irrigation infrastructure through that Flint Creek Valley as well as abandoned mine cleanup.

So yes, I can point to a number of examples up there where we've been directly doing work.

Tess Scanlan and Casey Hackathorn, two of my coworkers, are the project managers there.

But there's a lot more work to be done up there for sure.

- Yeah.

But any project that could be ongoing right now?

- Yes.

- Yeah, okay.

- How long do fish live?

How long is it?

What's an old cutthroat trout?

- Six.

- Yeah, that's an old trout.

- Yeah, it's six years.

- Yeah.

- So, that'd be a 16- or an 18-inch fish at six years?

I mean, it depend where it is and what kind of diet.

- Yeah.

- Yeah, in the Blackfoot, a 16-inch fish is probably about a four to five-year fish.

- Okay, I was just kinda curious.

I mean, we don't really talk about that.

We just know... You know, we talk about spawn and fry and that.

Yeah.

- So, what is a six-year-old fish male size roughly?

You wouldn't know.

You don't catch anything much bigger than that.

- No, I'm a little fish guy.

- Well, they get to be 18 or 20 inches in the river?

- [Ryen] In some habitats, yeah.

If it's productive enough, yeah.

- So what really makes it totally productive?

Yeah.

Hey, on that note, we had a question come in.

This person has heard that insects can be bio indicators in water.

What can bugs tell us about water quality?

Frank, you can jump on that.

- Yeah, so there's actually three really important groups that a lot of people look for to test water quality.

It's ETP testing.

So you have your Ephemeroptera, your mayflies, Trichoptera, caddisflies, and your Plecoptera, your stoneflies.

And each of those have different stresses to pH.

So if pH changes, some of those populations could go down.

Oxygen content.

So kinda going back to the colder water and fast moving water, that has more oxygen content in it.

So that could probably impact those trout.

If so, warm stagnant water doesn't have a lot of oxygen.

Stresses fish.

Stresses insects as well.

And so if you check out a healthy population, diverse population of mayflies, caddisflies, and stoneflies, you probably have a very healthy- - [Jack] Stonefly numbers, I read, are down.

- Yeah.

- [Jack] And that's probably... - Yeah, it's definitely with that.

The warmer water, slower water, it's gonna impact those stoneflies.

- Okay, and then this person kind of follows up on that.

He says that they've heard that the snow season in Montana is about three weeks shorter than it used to be.

How does that impact both agriculture and the trout populations?

Do you guys wanna think about that a little bit and give me an analysis?

- Yeah, I mean, I think that what I mentioned earlier about changing hydrograph that we are all having to adapt to whether you're in irrigated agriculture or trying to save some fish.

That snow pattern is changing.

I think this year, we obviously had much better snowpack this year.

But if you look... You can look at the snow tail data from May 14th to June 1st, all of that snow evaporated in almost two weeks across all of Western Montana.

So that prolonged period of runoff is changing.

However you're using water, that changing hydrograph and differing levels of snowpack and the timing of that release of the snowpack is affecting whether you're running a municipal water program or irrigated ag program or you're trying to conserve fisheries.

It really is changing the game.

- Yeah.

You notice it in many, many ways here.

Climate change has had a tremendous impact both in agriculture and fishery here and I think we have gone up to the fact that we're gonna have it for a while.

One for you Dave.

Bozeman caller asked whether it's safe to plant a six to seven-foot three-inch diameter willow that is currently in a pot.

Boy, that's big for a pot.

Or should they hope that the pot or willow will go dormant and be planted in the spring?

- Now if you have access to water and put some water on it, then yeah.

Fall can be a great time to plant trees.

And so the key there is like enough water so that the roots can... You know, the root ball can meld with the native soil around it.

They're probably gonna wanna look at how root bound it is, if the roots are spiraling in that pot if it's been in that pot for a long time.

And it might even behoove them to kind of like break that apart and make sure that they don't plant a tree with spiraled roots because that will definitely reduce its lifespan.

- I agree entirely.

Ryen, from Ovando.

This is right in your backyard.

Please explore why anglers should really support livestock-based agriculture, basically ranching, and why ranchers support groups that work to maintain healthy watershed.

It's a give and take.

You wanna touch on that a little bit?

- Yeah, well... You know, I think what we've seen across our state the last couple years, just the rapid change in the landscape.

And I think from...

I'm an angler and I think about when I'm on private land and I think about these large intact landscapes and what the opportunities we have there.

You know, we can always work on improving things no matter where we're working, right?

There's always opportunities to improve and do things better.

And so I think these private landowners, they're willing to work with us and what they've...

The projects that they've done over the past 30 years is really making a difference for the fishery of the Blackfoot.

If private landowners aren't at the table with us and willing to grant us access and let us bring in all the big excavators and fish grains and different things to do these projects, then the fishery will reflect that.

And then I think what we've tried to demonstrate working with landowners over the past many years is that our programs, I look at it as they're really designed to make conservation easy.

There's so many opportunities to fund projects that are gonna move the needle for trout and there's always an overlap I've found where I really think that the stream restoration work, the grazing management, the irrigation efficiency stuff, it also is designed to help make management of these properties easier and to really lend support to these private landowners.

So again, I think just the whole... Everybody working together and there's just so much overlap.

And so as long as we have these intact landscapes, we can always improve things for fish.

- You know, I was on an environmental tour this summer in your country in the Blackfoot area and your husband who's with Fish Wildlife or Federal Fish Wildlife, he gave me a number that just struck me as being absolutely astronomical.

Of the roughly not quite 700,000 acres of grassland and rangeland in that Blackfoot Valley, over 400,000 of it are in conservation easements.

- Yes.

- And does that make your work easier?

- It sure does, yeah.

You know, once... You know, I've been lucky.

I've really only worked in the Blackfoot post going to school and just having... You know, having a ranch that literally has two miles of stream on it and you work with one landowner, that is much easier than these areas that are subdivided and trying to get... Everybody has a different vision of what they want their property to look like.

But just having that one contact across such a wide range, we can really move the needle that much more efficiently.

- I totally believe you.

And that's beautiful country up there.

Don't let them spoil it.

I mean that.

I'm gonna bring up something else here and this kinda has a little bit to do with what we were talking about here this evening.

There's a new program that PBS has.

It's called Montana PBS Reports Impact.

There's two stories coming up on Thursday, September 14th at 7:00 PM.

One, the Montana Department of Fish, Wildlife and Park investigates declining trout populations.

You might wanna see that.

And then we're also gonna look at regenerative trip, ranching and conservation, and how and how it helps to improve farm and ranch ecosystems.

So that is this Thursday night at 7:00 PM.

It repeats a couple times.

But it's a great new program that Montana PBS has.

Question from Helena and wants advice on spruce bud worms on mature trees.

Can anything be done?

- I would say spray.

Get a foliar spray.

- And you can also... Can you trim out the bud worms that- - I think you could.

Yeah, you could trim them out.

- [David] Depending on the size of the tree.

- Yeah.

- So what's the timing on that spray?

I mean, it's pretty critical, right?

As far as getting the greatest efficacy out of your pesticide.

- Yeah, I feel like springtime is probably the best time.

- [David] So, you're looking for the crawlers?

- Yeah.

- So it's overwintered as an egg.

- Or it could just be inside the bud.

- Yeah, overwinter is on the inside.

Definitely, it was a larvae or something.

- Yeah, so it usually goes into the bud and stays there and overwinters there and then it'll eat it out.

And then you won't see a lot of growth there 'cause it's obviously dead and eaten out.

- But if you're trying to kill adults, that's probably not effective?

- No.

- Okay.

- No.

- Quick question.

Joplin caller asked if it's too late to deep water trees.

- [David] No.

- Perfect time for conifers.

- Yeah, perfect time.

- Yeah, on that note, there was an accident down in Joplin area, a farm accident recently.

Wasn't that in the Joplin area or... - [David] Joliet.

- Joliet.

And I might mention it, a lot of farm equipment on the roads at this time of year.

And if you're driving, pay attention.

I think we lost a very young person down in Joliet area.

So be cautious when you're out there on the roads because farm equipment doesn't move that fast.

Interesting here.

Conrad Caller, and this is an important issue, wants to know if Trout Unlimited has seen automobile advertisement with parents taking their child to the lake and dumping fish from a bucket into the lake.

Is this sending a message that that's okay to do?

Well, bucket brigade.

- We would certainly, along with the leadership of Fish, Wildlife and Parks, strongly urged that not to be the case.

Montana has, I think, one of the best in the countries in term of aquatic invasive species laws and programs that Fish, Wildlife and Parks administers.

And one of the big things is telling local communities and schools and parents not to dump their buckets into area lakes or reservoirs.

It's certainly not a great idea.

- I think somebody caught a small-mouthed bass near Gardiner this year.

- Last year, yeah.

Yeah, so certainly, natural movement of fish is something that climate change is advancing.

We just had a recent report of smallmouth caught in the Bitterroot and the Fish Wildlife Commission both in the upper Yellowstone and in the Bitterroot instituted emergency catch/kill report fishing regulations there.

But obviously, aquatic invasive species are nothing to mess around with.

And we have been very lucky to survive this far without major infestation of these nasty things.

So, let's keep it that way.

- As the water warms, the potential for warm water fish to move in would increase by people dumping up but also moving farther upstream from the Yellowstone say.

- Yeah, certainly.

And in many places, like take the Big Hole for example, we're seeing that naturally happening where there's actually brown trout moving up into the upper Big Hole where we're trying to conserve the last Fluvial Arctic Grayling population in the lower 48.

Brown trout are not a native species.

They were introduced here many, many years ago.

Obviously, one of sport fishing value now.

So we see this everywhere as climate change is happening and the water temperatures, fish are moving.

Their life histories are changing.

And in places like the Blackfoot, what that calls attention to is the need for connected habitat.

And for our native species to be able to survive, to access the refuge that they need, the spawning territory.

So, Ryen's work is critically important in terms of removing those barriers for fish to move and survive.

- Okay.

Folks, we're coming down to the end of another program.

Thank you for joining this evening.

I wanna thank the Department of Ag, Frank, for stopping by and being here this evening.

Dave also.

But especially our guest.

Glad to have you.

Next week, Chris Mehus' with the Western Sustainability Exchange will talk to us about carbon car station, carbon capture, things like that, and regenerative ag.

Good week.

Good night.

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