- [Narrator] "Montana AG Live" is made possible by the Montana Department of Agriculture, MSU Extension, the MSU AG Experiment Stations of the College of Agriculture, the Montana Wheat and Barley Committee, Cashman Nursery and Landscaping, the Northern Pulse Growers Association, and the Gallatin Gardeners Club.

- Good evening, and welcome to "Montana AG Live," originating tonight from the studios of KUSM on the very dynamic campus we call Montana State University.

And coming to you over your Montana public television system.

I'm Jack Riesselman, retired professor of Plant Pathology.

I'll be your host this evening.

Happy to be here.

This program relies on your input.

You provide the questions, we provide the answer.

We kind of have a soft theme this fall.

That's how conservation and production AG benefits if both are intact at the same time.

And that's very, very commonplace in And the other thing we've done this fall is we've always had a lot of people say, "Bring on more producers, more ranchers."

And we've done that this fall, and we're learning a lot.

And I think you'll learn a lot by some of the people that we've had on for this program.

So with that, let me introduce tonight's panel.

Way on my left, he usually sits right next to me, but I moved him away.

- I miss you over here.

(panelists laugh) - Eric Belasco, Eric's our economist, AG economist, actually, Department Head of AG Econ and Econ right now.

So congratulations on that.

Our special guest tonight, and I'm glad she came down from Malta, Phillips County, 300 miles north of Bozeman.

Conni French.

Conni is part of the Rancher Stewardship Alliance, a board member, and a very active person in that alliance.

And we're going to learn a lot about what the Rancher Stewardship Alliance does for the ranching industry and the communities around that industry.

Very interesting story tonight.

Noelle Orloff, Noelle is, I'm going to just say a weed scientist.

That's the easiest way to do that.

She's actually an invasive weed scientist, but we'll just say weed scientist.

Good old friend of mine, Bob Sanders.

Bob is Chief Conservationist and Program Manager for Ducks Unlimited here in Montana.

And I've had Bob on the program several times before, and he is very knowledgeable about how ranchers and conservation organizations work together for the benefit of both.

So if you have questions about that tonight, hey, it's an excellent opportunity.

The phone number will be up on the screen in a moment and get those questions in.

Answering the phones tonight, Nancy Blake and John Hawley.

And I thank them for coming in.

And with that, Conni, tell us a little bit about this particular thing called the Rancher Stewardship Alliance and what you do for it.

And I don't know if we got a good picture of that, but this is what she's involved with.

Go for it.

- All right, so the Rancher Stewardship Alliance is a nonprofit in Malta, Montana.

And it started in 2003 with a group of ranchers in South Phillips County that just were feeling a lot of pressures between the weather and succession, transition planning, outside pressures coming in.

And we got together knowing that we needed to solve some of our problems and be at the table as some of these things were going on and work together.

And so that's how we got started.

And currently we've been at it, I guess 20 years now, and we're kind of getting, it's snowballing.

Just in the last five years even, our organization has grown and has kind of taken off.

Our mission and statement is ranching, conservation, and community is a winning team.

So that's really what we focus on.

Done a lot.

We have a conservation committee that we've done a lot with conservation in the Hi-Line area, not just Phillips County, but Phillips Valley, Blaine.

I don't think we've stretched quite over to Hill County, but a little bit there.

And we've got another group, Aces, and they're south of the river in Winnett, and they do a lot of the same kinds of things that we do.

I don't know what else to.

- I've heard a lot about it.

I know Bob's worked with you.

Bob, what do you do with the stewardship program?

- Oh, it's so neat.

Because so many times the conservation entities in a given area are nonprofits like Ducks Unlimited, the Nature Conservancy, Rocky Mountain Foundation, usually in the western part of the state, and then the agencies, whether it's state or the Feds, Fish, Wildlife, and Parks, Fish and Wildlife Service, USDA.

And it's somebody typically from somewhere else, that comes in and says, "Hey, you know, we have all these programs."

It's so nice to have a locally led, grassroots kind of effort like Ranchers Stewardship Alliance that can say, "Hey, we're neighbors helping neighbors and trying to not only make it better, the economy, the soil conditions, whatever the issue is, making it better."

And I often tell people when they ask what Ducks Unlimited does, and Ducks Unlimited is actually the third most productive state for ducks in the nation.

It's North Dakota, South Dakota, and Montana.

But I'll tell them that Ducks Unlimited's mission in Montana is to keep grass based egg on the landscape.

So if we can do that, I mean, for you, Conni, it's grass and water equals cattle, and for us, grass and water equals ducks, and it equals sage grouse and deer and antelope and all the critters that so many of us love.

- Yes, we like to say what's good for the herd is good for the bird.

- Yeah, that's a good one.

- And so that is one key thing about RSA, Ranchers Stewardship Alliance, is that we are rancher led, and that's really important to us that we maintain that core group of ranchers that make the decisions.

And then we're working with our peers, and we're working with so many different other groups as well, like Ducks Unlimited, like Pheasants Forever.

Like Fish, Wildlife, and Parks, the BLM, World Wildlife Fund, the Nature Conservancy, National Fish and Wildlife Services.

And Bob, you got to help me out here, because there's so many of them.

I forget what all of them are, but we have a lot of partners, and there's a picture on the screen.

We all went on an elk viewing trip.

Some of our partners and our staff that got together and just did something fun.

- I need to learn.

I know that you started, I did a little look on the computer.

You had about 30 ranchers when this organization first started.

How big are you now?

- So we just started a membership program.

We didn't have a membership program, so we really don't have a good number for that right now.

If we do, we might have a number, and I'm not aware of what that number is because it's just begun.

For years, we weren't a membership organization, so we didn't have a good number to pin to that question.

- So for my interest, is there a fee to join the Ranchers Stewardship?

- There is now.

You can become a member now, and you don't have to.

We just want people to come.

- I want to.

(panelists laughing) - Everybody, we would love to have you be a member, but just visit the website.

There's a tab on the website where you can donate or become a member.

And there's lots of good things you get for being a member.

You get access to our newsletters, and we do a book club.

We do a lot of webinars.

We do a lot of educational events, both in Phillips County and further.

Our webinars have been really successful.

We call them "Rural Resilience."

And we've had people from not just all over the United States, but all over the world that have joined our webinars, and they've just been fascinating, I think, Eric, you were involved in that as well.

- Absolutely, last winter.

I remember that.

It was a really good audience.

- Okay, thank you.

We'll get back to more of that in a moment here.

But this caller called last week and the week before, so now we're going to get to it.

It's from Clancy.

And this person wants to know how to tackle morning glories in a garden.

That's not a ranching operation, but a small garden.

- A small garden.

So we're talking about morning glories.

I bet we're talking, we're not talking like, the cute morning glory that you're planning on purpose, I bet we're talking about field bindweed, which is a noxious weed of Montana and a big pain if it's in your garden.

This one, you got to tackle it with every tool, right?

Because it has this underground system of roots and rhizomes that is just really good at storing resources and resprouting after management efforts.

So a few things people can try.

Mechanical control for field bindweed can be really difficult.

Before we had herbicides, back in the day, people used to till every time field bindweed got to be three inches tall.

And that was effective.

Probably don't need to be doing that in your garden, but that's not allowing the plant to take a lot of resources into the roots is the idea behind that.

- [Jack] Hoe, hoe, hoe.

- Yes.

So in our garden, we might hoe it every time we see those little sprouts come up.

I might also try mulching, maybe with something pretty serious, like black plastic even.

That could be something you could try.

And Roundup or glyphosate can also be an effective tool to use dealing with this plant.

Definitely.

I can't remember what all the different glyphosate labels say about when to plant after applying that herbicide, but definitely read the label and make sure you're following it.

But yeah, there's a lot of tools.

You got to use them all.

- Sounds like a good plan to me.

From Chinook, this person has heard the term cowboy boots associated with the Stewardship Alliance.

Can you tell them what that is?

- I'll bet they're talking, we're doing a Cowboy QuickBooks series, educational workshops here.

- That's probably what it is.

- And so Sally Salveson with Montana Roots Accounting out of Malta, is doing a workshop.

And basically you can sign up for it.

I think it's $50 for a full day, $30 for a half day.

Lunch is provided.

We'll be having a workshop in Chester, Malta, Glasgow.

And I think, Chinook, you'll have to check our website for specifics, but you can get signed up on our website and then Sally will be talking about helping people with QuickBooks.

The beginning session, like if you're just starting out with QuickBooks is in the morning, and then the more advanced session is in the afternoon.

So check out our website, RanchStewards.org, and that will have all the information you need to get signed up for Cowboy QuickBooks.

- That's what it is.

Okay, thank you.

And then I think the person from Chinook will now know the answer to that.

Eric, this question always comes in when we have economists on, and I'm sure Conni is interested in this.

They want to know where calf prices are going to be six months from now.

(panelists laughing) - I'm glad I didn't get the morning glory question.

(panelists laughing) This will be a little bit better.

Where are calf prices?

So right now, calf prices are strong.

They've been the strongest.

2015, we thought they were really strong.

They're even stronger now.

If you look kind of forward the next six months, twelve months.

So what I use for that is what the futures market is projecting out.

Futures market has some strength to it as well.

So we look out really for twelve month contracts, October 2024, you're looking 270, which is a little higher than the 250 that they're at least for feeder cattle.

Sorry, for feeder cattle.

So you can add a quarter or so onto that to get to your calf prices.

There's been a lot of decreases to inventory over the last couple of years, especially because of the drought in Phillips County.

You guys saw a lot of inventory reductions.

And so in economics, those are the signals to start to rebuild.

You see those high prices, time to rebuild.

And the other thing that is happening is in the south, there's still some drought down there.

So the national inventory hasn't fully recovered.

It's still decreasing.

But there's a lot of reason to believe that the Montana inventory might be on its way up.

Two years of reductions in a row.

Hay prices just dropped below $200 a ton in August.

So if you're looking at your input cost in QuickBooks, you're watching that carefully, yeah.

So, yeah, things are pointing, I don't want to say predict prices are going to go up, but it certainly looks like the information right now is prices are strong, and it looks like they're not heading down anytime soon.

- That's good news.

And actually, meat prices have stabilized a little bit in grocery stores, too.

I believe they have.

- Yep.

- From what I've noticed.

Bob, this person from Glasgow would like to know, what does Ducks Unlimited do to help ranchers impact their production?

- That's a good question.

I think the first step is really getting the information out there.

And that's what RSA does.

You've got the information, you've got building the trust with people that they trust you, and they trust the information.

A lot of times, the first step for me is to sit down with a family and get an idea of what I call the future vision of the operation.

So if they're looking and we've got a lot of mixed operators, folks that both farm and ranch up on the Hi-Line.

And the reason why we focus on the Hi-Line, Jack, is because basically when the last glaciation happened, 7000 years ago, we got a lot of that undulating topography that has the prairie pothole wetlands.

That's what we look at.

And then the intact grassland, that's where ducks nest.

So we try to focus on that.

So we're up on the Hi-Line a lot.

That's Montana's portion of the prairie pothole system.

So when I sit down with ranching families, it's usually, hey, tell me a little bit about your operation, what you're interested in.

And it can be anything from a little bit of technical assistance.

Typically, the state and the federal programs are fairly complicated.

So it takes a little bit.

I mean, I can imagine you, Conni, coming back after a long day, working calves, moving cattle, fixing fence, and then you're going to sit down and try to research some of these programs.

It's fairly difficult.

So our job is to try to get out there, build the trust, disseminate the information.

And then once I learn a little bit, I and my staff learn a little bit about what the operation, what the goals are, maybe you've got three kids that want to continue ranching.

So that's going to be different from somebody that's near retirement age, and the kids have moved on and doing their own thing outside of ranching.

So getting a feel for what their future vision is and what their needs are and then providing the right direction on the programs, whether it's state or the federal programs typically, and putting that in front of them and saying, "Hey, these are some of the pros and cons of these programs."

And then you can lead them down that path.

And then typically, if they are interested, then getting the actual experts, the people with USDA, people with Fish and Wildlife Service and Montana Fish, Wildlife, and Parks, and that's usually the best funded, whether it's through the hunting license dollars with the US Fish and Wildlife Service.

It's a lot of that $25 federal duck stamp that people need to buy to hunt.

And then some of the other programs, the USDA programs that are out there.

- So there is financial assistance available?

- Oh, a tremendous amount.

And we were talking before the show a little bit about expiring things, like expiring CRP.

If you've got a section of ground, say 640 acres, which is a mile on each side, fencing, depending on what you put on, what kind of fence you put up, might be $2 to $3 a linear foot, that's about $10,000 per mile.

So you got $40,000 of fencing cost, and maybe your great grandkids will start to make that pencil out in terms of pounds of beef produced on the landscape.

But what can happen is because there are other benefits to wildlife and soil health and things, we can get subsidies from the state and the feds to get that fencing out there, to get things like stockwater, water tanks, wells, pipelines, things like that, to improve the distribution of cattle.

And ultimately the wildlife conditions are part of that.

- Conni, your members up there, the original 30, how many of those are actually involved with programs like Fish, Wildlife, and Parks, DU, Elk Foundation?

How many of your members, and I don't need an exact number, but are they actively involved with a lot of these organizations?

- Yes.

Yes.

So RSA has what's called the Conservation Committee, and that addresses the conservation part of our mission statement.

And in that Conservation Committee, we have over 30 different partners.

Ducks Unlimited is one.

And we all come together, and ranchers will have and we have projects that come to the table.

And some of our biologists, sometimes the Ducks Unlimited folks, sometimes the Pheasants Forever folks, just different biologists and people that are working within the communities in the area will bring projects to the table.

And there'll be a rancher that say, for example, I'll use ourselves as an example.

We had some expiring CRP.

A lot of times those expiring CRP fields are not fenced, and there's no water infrastructure.

So farmers and ranchers don't have a lot of choice to keep it.

It's difficult to keep it in grass.

A lot of times they're torn up.

They're eligible for organic farming now, so they put them into organic farming.

So for us, RSA came in with several funding sources, not just, well, RSA is funded through grants primarily, and then those grants are to help ranchers put tanks, pipeline.

We did permanent electric fence so that we can keep that in grass.

And then that's what the conservation organizations, Ducks Unlimited, Pheasants Forever, I keep using those too.

There's a lot more than that, but that's what's stuck in my head right now.

But then it becomes a win for everyone, because the rancher then is able to do what they want to do and run cattle on that piece of property without having, they've got the infrastructure to do that without all of the expense, like Bob was saying, how terribly expensive that is.

And then the conservation groups are happy because we're keeping more of that landscape in wildlife habitat, in good habitat for the animals.

So it's just a win all the way around.

- Sounds good.

We have a question that came in.

Before we get to that, I want to go back to Noel, because last week we had a question about hemlock.

And it is a highly noxious weed, and they like wet, or it likes wet areas.

You were supposed to find out how to control it.

Did you do that?

- I did.

I did, and I should have had it memorized anyway.

(laughs) So this is a plant.

All parts of the plant are really toxic to humans and livestock.

I don't know.

Do you see much of it in your country?

- [Conni] No, we don't have water hemlock, right?

- Oh, poison hemlock.

- [Conni] Poison hemlock, oh, okay.

- Conium maculatum, yeah.

- [Conni] I don't.

- Yeah, so it's a biennial to perennial.

So it makes a rosette of leaves and then sends up a flowering stalk and goes to seed.

Those seeds, it's very convenient.

They only last about three years in the soil.

So if you can get good control of it for a few years, that can really help.

And there's a couple of ways to do that.

One is, kind of repeatedly removing the bolting part of the plant.

So by mowing at flower, that could reduce the root reserves over time.

And then for an herbicide option, 2,4-D is effective if you apply it annually to the very small rosette leaves, and then something like a Group 2 herbicide like metsulfuron or chlorsulfuron, so Telar or Escort can be applied pre or post emergent.

So before or after it comes up.

And that can provide a couple of years of control sometimes.

- Okay, thank you.

It's also sometimes known as false carrot, isn't it?

- It's in the same family as carrot and parsley and all that kind of stuff.

I haven't heard it specifically called that, but certainly it can mimic kind of what those plants look like.

And if you're wondering if you might have poison hemlock, one thing to look for is purple spots on the stems.

That's a good thing to look for.

And if you're not sure, get in touch with someone who you feel like is.

- All right.

On the carrot subject, economics of carrot production.

(panelists laughing) - Oh, I see where this is going.

- I had a set up here.

- Nice transition.

- So many years I spent studying the carrot market.

(panelists laughing) - So last week we discussed, - I'm on the train.

- That the best carrots in the United States are growing here in Montana, as well as the biggest carrots.

Eric, why aren't we growing more carrots here?

- Yeah, well, I'm going to avoid the growing circumstances because it probably is a really good place to grow carrots.

But if you look at a lot of our commodities, we ship a lot of them out of state, and it's because we have a lot more farmland than people.

So there are some direct to consumer markets that you'll see out there, but the majority of the wheat, the majority of the cattle, they get sent out of state because we're very productive, but we just don't have the customer base to absorb that much in the way of commodities.

- Okay.

And that's where we're going.

- Yeah.

- And that, believe it or not, is a carrot grown right here in Bozeman.

So we can grow massive sugar beet sized.

- Get a little scale here.

(panelists laughing) - It's pretty good size.

There's no doubt about it.

- I think we should have a soup cook off.

- Yeah, just drop it in.

- So a question from White Sulfur, and this is for Bob and Conni.

Can ranchers run cattle on DU conserved land, and we might mention what conserved land is, without any restrictions?

- Yes.

Well, restrictions, the answer to, can they run?

Yes.

In fact, we encourage livestock, I mean, for all the reasons we're talking about here.

If we can keep land and grass based agriculture, most of the time, everything else works itself out, as far as wildlife habitat.

With Ducks Unlimited held easements, we've only got a few in the state.

And we do not restrict cattle ranching, cattle grazing, at all on any of those easements.

Now, once you get into USDA and Fish and Wildlife Service, the federal easements.

US Fish and Wildlife Service, no grazing restrictions.

There are haying restrictions.

So haying is typically delayed until after what we call the primary nesting season, which in Montana is July 15.

So you can hay it just, got to wait until after July 15.

Now, some of the other programs, say Wetland Reserve easement, which is a USDA held easement, they may be looking at different goals, trying to keep more wetland plants.

So there might be a restoration component of that.

So grazing is curtailed typically for a year or so until those restored wetlands start to recover.

Typically, it's an easement that goes on former row crop agriculture ground.

Everyone, the landowner, and the agency, and Ducks Unlimited, everyone agrees that that land might be better off restoring those wetlands and getting the grass back out there.

And so it might be a year or two that it takes for that grass to recover, and then it's periodically treated with grazing.

I mean, herbivores have been such a big part of grassland systems since probably the beginning of time that they have adapted and thrived.

As soon as you start to put things, say, in a hypothetical glass jar on a shelf, and quote, unquote, protect them, and don't graze them, productivity typically drops off.

And of course, it can be like anything.

I always say, people say, "Oh, is grazing good or bad for ducks?"

It's like, well, is aspirin good or bad for a headache?

If you take a couple, it's great for your headache.

If you take a whole bottle, there might be some ramifications in that.

And it's the same thing with grazing, obviously.

I think we've all seen places where grazing has really hit a particular landscape or a particular pasture very hard.

It probably needs a little bit of rest.

But maybe it's good because there's weeds out there.

We need to control weeds.

So it's one of those things, I think that's where we get landowners, operators that are knowledgeable, and we get staff, we get people like you out there that can give advice and say, "Hey, if you need to control this, maybe you need to pound it."

A good example of that up in Conni's part of the world is crested wheatgrass, where crested wheatgrass will continue to expand and form basically monotypes over time.

But one of the tools, which is great because it greens up early in the spring and cattle eat it before it starts to get real fibrous, and you can quote, unquote, knock it back to the benefit of other desirable grass species.

So it's a balancing act, and that's where it takes the knowledgeable landowner and the support staff out there.

- I'll put a plug in for ranching again.

I've been in this state almost, well, 40 years.

Over 40 years.

When I first came out here, I did see a lot of overgrazed pastures, and the 80s were tough, there's no doubt about it.

We were short of various forages and so forth.

But today, if you look around the state, the ranching community has stepped up to be probably the best conservationist in the state.

I'm really impressed with it, and I've been on several ranches since I've retired, and I have nothing but good things to say about the ranching community today.

- Thank you.

- And on that note, this person from Bozeman has heard that your organization has been involved with several different fencing programs to enhance wildlife migration.

- Yes, yes.

- [Jack] You want to explain what that might be?

- Sure, I'd love to.

So we had a fellow that applied for a grant and we got funded to, oh, well, I'm going to back up.

I'm going to back up, because this is a cool story.

So there was a study done on antelope, and they collared the antelope.

And this is a migration that's from North Phillips County, and it comes all the way down.

It's one of the longest migrations, maybe, if not the longest migration of mammals in the United States.

And they come down.

In the summer they of course go north and calve, or fawn, I guess, and graze and everything, and then they go south for the winter.

Well, these antelope were collared and then maps were made from the data they got on these collars.

And you would see an individual antelope or several individuals, and you would see their trail as they were headed south for the winter.

And then they would hit a fence, and so this line would come down and it would stop, and it would just go back and forth, and back and forth, and back and forth.

So we could see it was really obvious.

It made it just as plain as day that these antelope were having a hard time migrating because of the fences that they would hit.

And so a grant was applied for and received.

And we have actually, in 2022, through RSA's Conservation Committee, and this is several organizations, and not just RSA that have contributed to this, but we were able to install or modify 51.34 miles of wildlife-friendly fencing.

And then we also removed 13.5 miles.

We put up 6 miles of temporary fencing.

And that's easier then for the animals to migrate through.

I think that's all that we did as far as fencing.

But this allows those animals, and not just antelope, but the deer, too.

And then we've also done clips on the fences for sage grouse, another project that a lot of folks are involved with out there, a lot of ranches.

You'll see those white clips on the fences when you drive through, that's so the sage grouse can see the fences and don't crash into them and die.

Yeah, it's been a really successful program.

- It sounds very successful.

- And so then the ranchers get new fence, their fences get upgraded, and the wildlife gets easier passage through the fences.

- And antelope don't jump over fences.

- [Conni] Not generally.

Occasionally you'll see one go over.

- I've never seen one go over.

- [Conni] Yeah, once in a while we'll see one.

- I've seen them crawl under and even very short.

- Yes, and the game cameras that were put up and to watch all those game cameras, and the activities of the animals as they're going through and going back and forth are pretty fascinating.

- It's a real problem for antelope.

You'll see them late winter where they've gone under so many real low fences.

They have no hair on the back.

I think of that when we get the 20 and 30 below with wind up in Phillips County.

It's like, man, that's got to be stressful on those.

- It would be.

Yeah, that'd be very hard on them.

No doubt about it.

Moving from antelope to cattle, from Sydney, and I'll let Eric and Conni answer is, is there still a premium for Montana-produced calves moving to feed lots and so forth?

- Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of that is probably rancher-specific.

So some of the ranchers have developed good genetics programs and they're able to sell it.

And you see that meat creating high quality products.

Overall, the Montana product has a premium over other states, but it's really probably rancher-specific, how much they dedicate to those genetic programs and how they develop them.

What are your thoughts, Conni, on that?

- Similar.

And you know, I haven't ever studied it or anything.

That's just what we're told.

- Yeah.

- [Jack] Conni, where do your calves go?

How do you market your calves?

- So we have just started doing fence line weaning with our calves and then we do a 45 to 60 day wean on our steer calves.

So we bring them home and wean the calves, keep the calves at home to reduce stress, and then they get through that stressful period of weaning.

So they're a little healthier when they go.

It's not quite as traumatic for them, I guess.

And then we send them.

Either we'll do a contract buyer if people, that's one way of doing it.

There's lots of buyers out there that you contact and then they offer you so many dollars per pound for your calves, and you can get that.

Or video auction is something that we do.

Or we just take them to the local stockyard and sell them through the ring as well.

So there's lots of different ways to do it.

And we've used all the different methods depending upon the year, how many animals we have.

Last year we kept our steer calves over until spring because they were doing good and we had the feed and we thought the market was going to go up.

So we took a gamble and kept them over till spring and it turned out really well.

And we just ran them through the local auction barn then and it worked out well.

And we keep our heifer calves as replacements.

- So do you see kind of around the ranches near, because Phillips County had some of the biggest declines in inventory because of the drought.

Do you see kind of some of that rebuilding happening up there?

- We do, we do see some rebuilding happening.

We're kind of getting into the custom grazing business a little more and so people are retaining those heifer calves more and we bring in heifer calves then and graze those because we had to cut down on our numbers too.

And so the economics of it, we've got to have something out there grazing to bring in some dollars.

- Yeah, that's great to hear.

- Yeah, trying to think of different ways to think outside the box a little bit.

We don't have to do things the way they've always been done.

We can't, I mean, things are changing, the weather patterns are changing.

- Gotta be flexible.

- This drought, yeah.

- Have you changed cattle style?

- [Conni] Yes.

- Tell us a little bit about that.

I don't know much about it, I'm not an animal science guy, but I've heard this term.

You want to explain that a little bit?

- Sure.

So as we're trying to be more economical and both more pay attention to our ecology as well as our economics.

We're trying to work more in tune with nature.

So we're not haying anymore because we're just grazing our hay meadows, and we feel like that's better for the grasses and then in turn, better for the soil.

And then it's all just such a big circle, then better for wildlife and all parts of the ecosystem.

- Go ahead.

If we can bring up, you had the picture of, talking about not haying with the dung beetles and so forth.

So if we can bring up that side of Conni holding some pies.

(panelists laughing) - [Conni] There I am.

- [Jack] There we are.

Explain what's going on here, Conni.

- [Conni] So this is a thing that I do.

(panelists laughing) Actually, you can go to RSA's website, we did with Hayes Goosey from here at MSU.

- [Eric] We all collect things.

- Yes, we do.

(panelists laughing) My granddaughter says, "Why does Grandma like poop so much?"

(panelists laughing) But, yeah, we did a podcast on dung beetles and just the benefits that those insects have.

And so as we change our management techniques, we look for things like dung beetles, and how many we have, how active they are, as they break down those dung paths and incorporate them back into the soil, quicker you improve your nutrition cycle in the soil, you improve your water infiltration, organic matter is getting into the soil.

I'll let you listen to the podcast.

Hayes does a great job of explaining all this.

But it's a really interesting thing.

It's fascinating as you start to pay more attention to the grass, to the nature, to all the different cycles that are going on.

And as we're doing that, we're trying to move to a smaller, more efficient cow that's geared more for our country, that doesn't require quite as many groceries to perform, to raise a calf, to maintain her body condition, to breed back, all those things.

And we really feel like going to a smaller animal and mostly Angus-based genetics, but I don't know that that's necessary.

I think there's other genetics out there that would do the same thing.

But yes, that's the style of cattle.

I think that's the question you were asking me.

- I appreciate that.

- [Conni] It took me a long time to get there.

- I learned something.

I try to learn at least one thing here every week.

It's tough for me.

I mean, I'm a slow learner, but a question from Stevensville came in last week.

We did not get to it.

It's an interesting question.

This person has seen a ton of Canada thistle on the Lee Metcalf Wilderness Area.

They would like to know who do they get in contact to control and ask for control of some of these, and how they might do that.

- Yeah, so, oh, man.

Controlling Canada thistle in a wilderness area sounds hard to me.

So certainly they could get in touch with the Forest Service, whoever.

So they were talking about the Lee Metcalf, but they're from Stevensville.

That's interesting.

- [Eric] There's a Lee Metcalf Refuge.

(panelists laughing) - Oh.

- That might be it.

- That might be it.

- That might be it.

- Get a hold of the refuge people and complain.

- Yeah, I'd say get a hold of the refuge people.

Kind of see what their thoughts are about it.

If you're concerned about weed management in your area, you can always get in touch with the local weed district office.

There's usually like a complaint process.

I don't know if you want to go that route or not, but there's also, I'm fairly certain that every weed board will have a monthly meeting where public comment will be taken, and that would be another place you could go and just kind of see what the deal might be as a first step.

- Question from Colstrip, and I think I probably know who sent this one in.

It's for Bob.

And they want to know how successful are organizations like DU in actually saving grasslands in our country?

You might guess who that was.

- Yeah, I could.

Thanks, Steve.

(panelists laughing) No, we're incredibly successful, and when I say we, it's the agencies.

I mean, nobody's working in a silo or a vacuum out on that landscape.

You got to have the ranchers, you got to have the agencies.

The agencies provide a lot of the expertise, but also the bulk of the money.

We're only going to raise so much, Ducks Unlimited, through gifts and banquet system and that sort of thing.

So we really rely on the agencies, and in particular, USDA.

Fish and Wildlife Service does quite a bit.

USDA is the big one.

- [Jack] And NRCS.

- Yeah, NRCS, and FSA.

FSA would have the CRP program, but that's really who we, the collective we, rely on out there.

And it's been good.

I think a lot of it is economically driven, especially in these more marginal climates like we have in places like Phillips County where you're drought prone.

What are we talking, Conni, 10, 12 inches of precept a year?

- 12 is normal, but we haven't had that for quite a few years.

- Right, so it's building that resiliency in through grass based AG.

You've got such an incredible amount of inputs when you start to talk row crop agriculture.

You got to buy the seed, you got to buy the tires, the fuel, all those things.

And then if the rain doesn't come, holy smokes, you're upside down to the tune of maybe hundreds of thousands of dollars, and you're relying on crop insurance.

A lot of the grass based AG, the ranching part of the business, I think, is more resilient.

You're still going to take those hits of drought, but you don't have that investment, that output in that particular year.

So it's a little bit more resilient in those marginal climates.

We try to facilitate that, that desire on the part of landowners to go do more grass based AG.

And it's been great.

I think people, we've got history.

I mean, we can look back into the teens and twenties, over 100 years of boom and bust and wet cycles and dry cycles over time, and I think we're learning.

I mean, we can only do so much with crop varieties.

You can't necessarily make it rain.

So there are certain system limitations.

I think other places, maybe like the Dakotas, Iowa, Nebraska, are much more conducive, obviously, to row crop agriculture, and that's typically been America's breadbasket for that kind of production.

But up on the Hi-Line and throughout a lot of places in Montana, I think it's been very successful to get more grass on the landscape.

- Give Steve a rough acres number, as he probably knows.

(laughs) - Oh, gosh.

I'll bet you, Ducks Unlimited, we are, the bigger us, the bigger we of landowners, agencies, Ducks Unlimited, Pheasants Forever is a huge player.

They've done incredible work up on the Hi-Line.

In fact, that program, that grant that Conni mentioned earlier about antelope migration, I believe Pheasants Forever kind of put their name on that and they were the applicant, which is really a good demonstration of how we're working outside of our normal, hey, if it's not a pheasant or if it's not a duck, we don't do it.

That's not how it is anymore.

We've seen programs like pollinator programs, that it's like, hey, if we can get more perennial cover and whether we label it as pollinators or whatever it is, it doesn't have to be animal specific.

I think we're getting good traction.

So I'm going to say, probably on the average, working with all our partners, landowners, Ducks Unlimited is involved with close to 100,000 acres of grass annually.

- That's a lot.

- It is.

- There's no doubt about that.

- Just in our area, some of the numbers that I brought with me, 2022, there was 5,240 acres of grassland restored in our working area.

So that's just in a small area.

Ducks Unlimited works in a much larger scale than that.

It's making a difference.

And we're seeing as a little bit happens, it's like that drop in the pond and neighbors and peers see what's happening and go, "Oh, what are you guys doing over there?

Let me look at that."

And so they might say, "Who do I talk to about getting help with that?"

So it is growing.

And another thing that's happening, I think, is that where traditionally, maybe in the AG community, some of these organizations have been seen as adversaries.

And now as these programs are happening and we're getting a lot of assistance, they're becoming allies, not adversaries, because they're helping us, and we're understanding and we're communicating.

We're building relationships, and we're understanding that they truly want to see ranchers stay on the ground ranching.

And that's where conservation happens.

And so I think that's, that snowball that I talked about earlier is just growing and it's building.

- It's funny when, and I've been in the business 30 years now, and when you go and you get your undergraduate degree and all the ologies, mammalogy, ornithology, wildlife habitat, population dynamics, you learn all about the animals.

And then as you get into the business, you realize it's all about the people.

- [Conni] It is, yeah.

- And I always tell the folks that work with me, it's like there's no reason we would ever have to take from people or if you led them down some gilded path of, "Oh, this is going to be, trust me, this is a great program," and it's not, you may kill a program and the idea of conservation for a generation or more and where are you then?

And so I always put the litmus test.

If it's not a program that I would sign up for if I was in that family's shoes, there's no way that we, or I think, and Josh Rackengoss, who was on the show here a couple of years ago, he'll say straight out, "Hey, I talk more people out of programs than into programs, just because of that fact."

It's like you want the best thing for that family and ultimately that community.

- And that builds trust, when we know that that's happening, yeah.

- I like that answer.

I've got a question here from your home country.

- [Conni] Okay.

(laughs) - Explain how RSA, which is a nickname for your organization, has helped rural economic communities, how the communities have benefited.

Any thought or any information on that?

And Eric, you're an economist, you can jump in too.

- I mean, I'll speak a little bit, but I'm curious to hear your answer on this.

I mean, I think programs like this that focus on different ways to keep ranching sustainable in these communities.

It helps keep the farmers in business, but it also keeps the surrounding industries, it keeps the school going, it keeps the restaurants going, it keeps kind of the whole rural community going.

So yeah, I think it's great to have these kind of working together, figuring out, all right, what's this industry going to look like 20 years from now.

We don't have to do what we did 100 years ago.

Let's kind of be forward thinking here.

- Yeah, because things are always changing.

But so as these dollars are coming into the community and landing in the community, and then you hire a fencing crew, you hire somebody to dig some pipeline, you buy some fencing supplies or some water tanks at the local store.

So that's bringing dollars into the community.

And that's just a one time thing.

And that's not what we're after.

We're after more of a long lasting, a sustainable relationship.

So we're not having just a transactional relationship with folks, but we're building an interest and a desire to learn more.

And that's where our educational component of RSA comes in, that we can then teach people how to maybe change things up a little bit as times are changing and science and our knowledge is changing and the partners that we work with and the relationships we build, all those things are changing.

And I was going to, oh, I know what I was going to say.

So our goal is then not to just have a one time impact, drop a little bit of money into the community and that's it, but we want to strengthen the ranchers and the community enough that nobody ever has to sell, that young people want to come back for that next generation.

So that to me, it's just continually building.

So that's our goal.

- And we need that because I've seen some data through the years that within the next 25 years, a lot of the ranchers are at risk because there's nobody that wants to come back.

Our next week's guest, Dave Mannix, has all his kids coming back, and they've expanded, and we'll learn a little bit more about that next week.

But that is critical.

I mean, if you enjoy Montana, you better enjoy the ranchers.

If you want ranches, you got to have the ranchers to put them out there.

So I like what you're doing there and I have a nice comment here.

And by the way, folks, if you have comments, positive or negative, we'll put up the positive and consider the negative.

(panelists laughing) But anyway, this Anaconda caller expressed his appreciation to Bob and the ranching community for the work that they're doing.

And I would second that.

Definitely.

Canada thistle in the yard.

She's tried vinegar.

It doesn't work.

Short answer, what else could she use?

- Short answer.

Oh, man.

(panelists laughing) Canada thistle is like the hardest one.

You know, if you want to use a synthetic herbicide, a Group 4 kind of herbicide will be effective.

- [Jack] What's a Group 4 herbicide?

- Sorry.

So something like a growth regulator.

So something like a 2,4-D Dicamba.

You'll have to do that one, those a lot.

Maybe like in the spring and in the fall, that can be effective.

Make sure your lawn is competitive.

Water well.

Canada thistle can get going really well in a sparse lawn.

So yeah, that's another one.

You got to hit with everything, including plant competition.

- Plant competition helps a lot.

- Yeah, for sure.

- Interesting question here.

I'm not sure we'll be able to answer this, but we're going to throw it out there anyway.

A caller from Billings is asking, what would be the greatest obstacle in putting dated land on an Indian reservation into a conservation program?

- Well, I guess I could take a stab at it.

We actually did a wetland reserve easement and it's been probably 15 years ago.

It was very difficult for a number of reasons.

It was funded by USDA, Natural Resource Conservation Service, to work on the res.

There was the Tribal Council.

There was obviously, it was deeded land.

So there was a landowner.

And then you also have Bureau of Indian Affairs, BIA.

So you've got multiple, I'll say, challenge points in there.

You can hit a lot of stumbling blocks in that process.

And then after we did all this, we were probably about two weeks from completing, and this was wetland reserve program, which was designed to protect and enhance wetland, restore wetlands.

Emory Gray was the individual's name, passed away about two weeks before the papers were signed, and his wife took on the task in his memory to get that thing across, that easement across the finish line, and she did it.

Everybody kind of came together, and so it was really neat.

It's the Gray Easement.

It's on Fort Belknap.

The tribes, there's actually some benefits to being on tribal ground.

I believe they call them underserved communities in NRCS.

So typically it might be minority owned or female owned businesses.

Tribal ground.

There are some real benefits to those different groups putting their land into, especially NRCS, the federal easement programs.

And you look across the Hi-Line, Fort Peck Reservation, Belknap.

We've got Turtle Mountain, which are usually little isolated parcels.

Rocky Boys.

There are a lot of different tribes out there.

The Blackfeet, really nice.

That real nice glacial stuff right off of the east side of Glacier National Park.

Beautiful land out there.

Fish and Wildlife Service and USDA has been doing it, but it doesn't get, I guess, the publicity that a lot of the other easement programs do.

But I would say if there's interest and those types of programs are out there, there's plenty of funding to get those programs established.

- Okay, thank you.

Now, Conni, let's go back to your RSA program.

Tell people, how am I going to join?

Tell people how they can join.

All right, so the easiest way would be just to go to our website, that's RanchStewards.org, and there's a little donate button at the top corner.

And we haven't had a membership organization for years, and we just started that up.

I'm not sure where we're at right now with memberships, but there's a donate button and you can go in there and they make it pretty easy, like most people do.

Pretty easy.

- [Jack] It sounds like a great conservation organization.

- Yes, but I wouldn't, we'll take all the members we can get, of course, but please don't feel like you have to, and come visit the website and take advantage of the webinars and the podcasts and all the educational events that we have.

Whether you're a member or not, we welcome everyone.

- Okay, we're down to about a minute and 20 seconds.

So this is a tough one for Eric.

The Farm Bill expired.

Anything?

- [Eric] Oh, it's a minute left?

(panelists laughing) - No, 20 seconds.

(laughs) Any concerns?

(panelists laughing) Think fast.

- Yeah, not yet.

So, yeah, it got pushed maybe till December with the continued resolution.

Nothing should be impacted before then.

Probably won't be signed before then.

It'll probably be signed after that.

The first industry that would be impacted is dairy.

Commodity program should be fine.

All the main programs that are out there should be fine for quite a while.

- [Jack] Insurance also?

- Yep.

- Okay.

So with that, I want to back up and thank everybody.

Eric, Conni, thank you for coming down.

Bozeman isn't what it used to be.

- It's still a pretty good place.

- Still a pretty nice place.

Noel, Bob, as always, wealth of knowledge.

We enjoy having you on the program.

So with that, folks, next week, Dave Mannix and the Mannix Brothers Ranch.

And there's three brothers involved up in Helmville, Montana.

Beautiful area of the state, Blackfoot River Valley.

You'll really enjoy listening to some of the things that he'll bring forward to you.

So with that, everybody have a good week.

Be back next week.

Thanks for watching.

Good night.

- [Narrator] For more information and resources, visit MontanaPBS.org/AgLive.

- [Narrator] "Montana AG Live" is made possible by the Montana Department of Agriculture, MSU Extension, the MSU AG Experiment Stations of the College of Agriculture, the Montana Wheat and Barley Committee, Cashman Nursery and Landscaping, the Northern Pulse Growers Association, and the Gallatin Gardeners Club.

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