- [Narrator] Montana Ag Live is made possible by The Montana Department of Agriculture, MSU Extension, The MSU Ag Experiment Station of the College of Agriculture, The Montana Wheat and Barley Committee, Cashman Nursery and Landscaping, The Gallatin Gardeners Club, and The Montana Federation of Garden Clubs.

(country music) - You are tuned to Montana Ag Live, originating tonight from the studios at KUSM, under very dynamic campus of Montana State University, and coming to you over your Montana public television system.

I'm Jack Riesselman, Retired Professor of Plant Pathology.

Happy to be your host this evening.

Glad you joined us.

Before we go any farther, I'm told this is a special day.

And the immortal words of Hayden Ferguson, who sat in this chair for the first dozen or so years of this program.

Happy Mother's Day to all of you who qualify.

And for those of you who don't, have a nice day anyway.

That was Hayden's famous quote.

But anyway, Happy Mother's Day to all of you out there, and I'm glad you're joining us this evening.

We have an interesting program again this evening, and we'll get to it in a minute.

Before we do that, I wanna introduce the On my four left, is Nina Zidack.

Nina is the quitter, oh, pardon me, she just retired from the Montana Potato Improvement Association this past March.

Nina knows a lot about potato industry, labor and potato industry, horticulture.

She had a truck farm for many years before she finished her degree under Barry Jacobson.

So she's been around here a long time.

Lot of knowledge, lot of questions she can answer.

Our special guest, Diane Charlton.

Diane has a really envious job in today's world.

She has to deal with labor issues in Montana and especially agriculture.

So if you have questions about labor issues, and we have a lot of 'em in this state right now, be a good time to call 'em in this evening.

The phone number will be on the screen here shortly.

Diane can address those questions.

Sam Wyffels, Sam is our Beef Specialist, Extension Beef Specialist.

Sam has a lot of knowledge about beef in general, but he also understands a little bit about labor in the ranching industry.

So we'll get a little dialect to see what's going on in the ranching and farming industry.

And of course, Abi Saeed.

Abi is our Extension Horticultural Specialist.

If you have questions about plants tonight, excellent time to phone 'em in.

We'll try to get to as many as we possibly can.

Answering the phones tonight, Cheryl Bennett and Nancy.

I forgot your name.

No, I didn't.

(Jack laughing) But I got you.

Nancy's here all the time.

So with that, Diane, tell us a little bit about what you do.

- Well, I'm an agricultural economist, so I study economics, and specifically focus on farm labor markets and immigration policy.

Agricultural labor markets are very unique because the labor demands are seasonal.

It's also particularly unique because it's unpredictable.

We don't really know the weather from one year to another or what the labor demand will be.

And finally, people move off of farms as the economy develops.

So in the United States, most of our farm workers come from Mexico, but Mexico's also developing, so workers in Mexico are moving off farms.

And so that's creating a lot of pressure on agricultural growers in Mexico and the United States for limited labor supply.

- So you know, you get down to rural Montana, which I love.

Towns like Fort Benton, Scobey, places like that.

And you're a several thousand acre wheat producer.

Where do they get the additional labor?

I know that mechanization has reduced some labor needs, but you can't run a big operation without labor, and there's not a lot of people out there.

Are they importing labor out there too?

- Yes, in Montana as well, even though we have a lot of mechanized crops, there are still a lot of workers coming from other countries, mostly Mexico.

In Montana, there are quite a few workers that also come from South Africa, but primarily Mexico.

And we do have an H-2A Agricultural that employers can use to hire seasonal farm workers.

There's a lot of paperwork involved in getting H-2A certification and recruitment of workers through the H-2A program.

But that's an option that more and more employers are using as it's becoming more difficult to find workers locally.

- Okay.

I have a Facebook question and an email question that came in this week to me because they knew you were gonna be on the program.

One is from Manhattan, the other is from Miles City.

And they asked, will increased immigration enforcement in Montana affect our ag industry?

And I know that's a tough question, but you want to take a stab at that?

- Sure.

Well of course, we don't know what will happen in the future or as things move forward, but many of the farm workers in the United States are unauthorized immigrants.

And so definitely when there is increased immigration enforcement, it makes that community nervous.

When we have observed increased immigration enforcement at say, the county level, we have seen agricultural production, particularly of more labor intensive crops, like fruits and vegetables decline within those counties.

We don't know what will happen larger scale if there's more immigration enforcement, the federal level, but it's definitely concerning for the agricultural industry that depends on a workforce that's includes a lot of unauthorized immigrants.

- So on that note, I have somebody that I've got a person that is very knowledge about beef.

And Abi, you're in the fruits a little bit.

What are the industries in this state, the ag industries, that would be affected from fruit, from the livestock perspective, from the potatoes perspective?

Take your turn, jump in.

- [Nina] So, we can start on the end.

- Okay.

- So the potato industry actually has a long history of utilizing the H-2A workforce, primarily again, from Mexico, but also now South Africa is getting to be definitely a big player in providing labor for our farms.

I would have to say, and I mean maybe this sounds a little Pollyanna-ish, but the H-2A program has been well utilized by our farms for many, many years, and there are very strong relationships that have been developed with families that have the same families, you know, aunts, uncles, nieces and nephews, children of the same families are coming year after year.

And the farmers have worked very well with them to make sure that they're all documented and they have everything in place, because they really rely on those workers.

So their farms would be in jeopardy if they were using undocumented labor.

So I would say that, you know, things should be pretty safe with the potato industry.

- [Jack] Okay, Sam, what about the livestock industry?

- Yeah, that one's a tough one because there's a whole lot of sectors in the livestock industry.

- True.

- And some are probably gonna be more affected than others.

I'm not a sheep person by any means.

I try to stay more in that beef cattle realm, but I do know it's not uncommon to have sheep herders, a lot of them come from South America, Peru or Peruvian sheep herders seem to be a pretty common thing.

So that's a obviously a potential there.

I'd say from the cow calf side, I'm not aware as as many immigrant or But I do know that once you get into like the feedlot and feed yard, where high intensity and some labor issues there, that there is some foreign worker potentials there.

- I was told that during the calving season, a lot of the ranchers need additional labor, and they're finding it very hard to come by.

Are any of these, say, Mexicans or documented workers from other countries?

- I mean, I don't wanna say no 'cause I feel like that's always a potential.

Just in my experience, you see a fair amount of like college kids hired to do some of that, high school kids at some instances.

You see folks hire bring on seasonal cowboy labor, or things like that that, you know, that obviously doesn't have to preclude, you know, documented or undocumented.

But I don't, I guess, see it as much on the ranch as I do in some of the other agricultural industries.

- [Jack] Abi.

- Yeah, I know the fruit production industry in general has used a lot of migrant workers that will do a lot of the really difficult jobs, that includes documented and undocumented workers.

And anytime there is this increased enforcement, like Diane mentioned, there is nervousness associated with it.

So there are higher levels of anxiety surrounding, you know, working in the United States.

- Where do we get the pickers for the Flathead cherries?

- I'm not sure.

I don't know the answer to that.

- I know there's a lot of acres up there that need to be picked in a hurry when it ripens, so - Yeah, I'm not sure.

- Curious about that.

A question came in, and this is a good question.

We've been talking about documented, undocumented.

If you're undocumented, it does not necessarily mean that you're here here illegally.

Is that correct?

- Some might be waiting for paperwork visas, courtroom hearings.

So it is a little bit ambiguous.

- Okay, but we do have, I know some undocumented workers in many areas here in Montana.

And I think you're right.

I think they're all waiting to hear and there's a backlog.

So I don't think you can judge an undocumented worker as being an illegal person here.

And that brings up another point, a question that came in, and this was an issue this year.

If we bring in levers from South Africa, Mexico, and they have driver's licenses in their home countries, are those viable here in the United States?

Do we know?

- I believe you have to at least go through some additional paperwork.

- [Jack] Okay.

- To get an international driver's license.

And for workers who might have more anxiety about this, it might be difficult to even get some sort of legal driver's license.

There was recent legislation to provide access to a driver's privilege card, even if you don't have a driver's license.

Several states have passed this legislation in the past.

By the economics literature, there are some positive benefits in terms of increasing labor force participation when these laws are passed, allowing unauthorized immigrants to access these driver's privilege cards.

And there's also a statistically significant decrease in like hit and run accidents since people have less incentive to try to to remain undetected.

So there are definite benefits to these driver's privilege cards that might not have been anticipated.

- Okay, that sounds good.

Something we need to look into.

I'm sure we are.

Change the tune a little bit.

This caller last week from Bozeman.

Heard about what's known as No Mow May, I like that idea, 'cause wouldn't have to be on that riding lawnmower, push lawnmower quite as much.

They say it is supposed to help pollinators.

Is this a good idea, Abi?

- Yeah, that's a really good question, and something that I never tire to talk about.

In when May comes up, it always comes up.

So I'll talk a little bit about the origin of it.

So No Mow May started in Europe, and the intention for that is to not mow your lawn for the month of May, because that's when a lot of our flowering lawn weeds bloom.

And a lot of flowering lawn weeds can help support pollinators in urban areas.

But in terms of not mowing your lawns for the month of May, in a lot of our cool season climates, especially when we have a lot of precipitation, our lawns can grow significantly in a one month period, as anyone who has probably not mowed for a while can attest to.

And so in general, there are better ways to support pollinators than No Mow May, and that includes intentionally planting plants for pollinators.

And I wrote an article about this topic on the Garden Professor's Blog if you're interested in reading more about the science behind it.

But intentionally planting pollinator plants, mowing your lawn less frequently, so maybe can still allow those lawn weeds to flower without having to worry about trying to get your lawn back to a functional height after it's 12 inches tall.

And there are also ways that you can turn your lawn into a pollinator lawn or a bee lawn by intentionally incorporating flowering plants, low growing flowering plants with your cool seasoned grasses.

And so these bee lawns could include plants like white clover, self-heal, the lancia, a lot of variety of self-heal is native to here, common violet, a lot of these plants help support pollinators, and you're intentionally planting them.

And so you're caring for your lawn while doing this, and this could be a better strategy than No Mow May.

- Okay, more and more people, I believe, are doing that.

- Yeah, less mowing, yeah, absolutely.

- So looking around Bozeman right now, there are no shortages of dandelions.

Are they good for pollinators?

- That's a really good question, and coincidentally, I just published a blog post today on dandelions and pollinators.

And in general, dandelions are really good for pollinators if you're in a very urban landscape where there isn't very much else flowering.

But other than that, they're not as nutritious of a source of nectar and pollen for pollinators.

So the best thing for pollinators is a varied diet, which includes a variety of different flowering plants, which is best, and dandelions can be part of that diet.

- [Jack] Okay.

There's plenty of 'em around.

- Absolutely.

- So bees should be happy, and pollinators in general.

Interesting question for Nina.

I love to put her on the spot.

This person wants to know what is a better tasting potato, the Russet or the Norgold?

- So Norgold, is it Norgold or are they asking Norkotah?

- [Jack] They said Norgold.

- Norgold, okay.

So Norgold, I've never actually eaten.

That is a variety that went out of favor by the time I came in.

So a lot of it depends.

I'm just gonna talk in general terms.

Russets, there are dozens of different varieties of Russets, and Russets generally have a higher starch content.

When you cook them up, they're a little bit fluffier and drier, and so they make a great baked potato.

They also make a great mashed potato.

If you make potato salad, you want a potato that's a little bit more waxy.

So you might want something like a Yukon Gold that actually stays a little bit more moist and holds together a little bit better when you cook it.

If you're gonna have new potatoes in the spring, there's nothing better than Dark Red Norlands.

- [Jack] Agreed.

- And they're the first ones to, you know, really size up nice, and they're wonderful for that purpose.

So a lot of it depends on what you're gonna use 'em for.

And then fingerlings are a whole nother story too.

And those are a lot of fun too.

- So this is a day that you're supposed to do what with potatoes?

It's Mother's Day.

What do you do on Mother's Day?

- Well, you can plant potatoes.

- [Jack] And that's what the old wife's tale is, that you plant potatoes on Mother's Day.

- And that's actually a very, very good wife's tale, especially for Montana.

This is actually a good planting time.

The other one was that you should plant on Good Friday, which is a really, really bad idea, because it's way, way too cold.

But in Montana, actually Mother's Day, this is really prime potato planting season up until about the first week of June.

- Okay, we got that settled.

The H-2A program, this person wants to know how restrictive is it if they wanna bring in laborers for agricultural purposes, is there a ton of paperwork involved, or what's the process for bringing in H-2A workers?

- There is a lot of paperwork involved, and that's been one of the major criticisms of the program is just so complex and difficult to use.

Most of the growth in the H-2A program the past 20 years has been primarily through third party agencies who actually file for H-2A workers on behalf of the grower.

More growers, I've noticed, have started bringing people in house who just specialize in this paperwork.

But it's difficult and it's complex.

Only seasonal workers qualify, and, oh, I just lost my thought.

I was gonna add something else and I forgot.

- [Nina] I'm sure it'll come back.

- Probably will.

- Is it an easy path to go from an H-2A to a more permanent visa?

How would that work?

- There is no path to permanent residency through the H-2A.

It is strictly a guest worker visa.

Oh, and my other thought was that it's not capped.

So there's no limit to the number of H-2A workers that can be employed, but the employer does have to go through all of this paperwork and recruit the workers.

- So one thing that I can mention that especially some of the farms that are new entering the program, they have to demonstrate that they've tried to recruit local labor, and have not been able to recruit that local labor in order to justify hiring an H-2A person.

- Yeah.

- And that can be very, very frustrating, because they'll get applicants from all of these job sites, you know, from all around the country.

And so they'll get somebody from Indiana that will say, I'm interested in your job.

And then they never show up or anything, but it can complicate the process.

- I've heard that as well.

And the employers also have to pay for transport to the farm and return to the workers' home country.

They also have to provide housing.

So there's a lot of expense associated with the program.

And if a domestic worker comes to your farm and you employ H-2A workers, and they say they're willing to do the same job, you have to offer them the same job with the same benefits, whether you need an additional worker or not.

- You know, on on that note, you know, I've been told, and I've read some, that some industries, not so much the ag industry, take advantage of the immigrant workers, H-2A workers.

Nina, I don't think that's true in the potato industry at all.

And I'm not, I don't know as much about the ranching industry, but I think most H-2A workers are fairly well compensated.

Do you guys agree with that?

- Yeah, and I've talked with some of our farmers about this, and they are compensated as well as a local worker would be.

And in addition, they do have the housing opportunity.

And if they've worked for the farm for many years, there's actually good opportunity for over the years, because they're very, very highly valued for the skills and the experience that they do bring to the job.

So, you know, I think in most cases, I think, you know, it's a very positive situation for both the farmer and for the worker.

- [Jack] Yeah, that's true.

- But I guess I do wanna add, just nationally, it varies a lot, and I've heard a lot of wonderful stories, like those that Nina is telling, and particularly as labor becomes scarcer, employers have an incentive to treat workers well so that they can come back because it's so hard to recruit workers.

So I think that's the really positive silver lining of this situation that we're facing right now with labor scarcity.

But there are labor abuses in H-2A at the national level as well.

And these are workers who are more vulnerable.

So I think we also just as citizens need to be very aware that we are bringing guest workers into our country who might not be able to advocate for their rights as easily as others.

- They're scared too, in many cases.

- Definitely.

And many of them don't have a lot of other options.

So if they wanna get hired back in another year, might be very difficult.

It's very intimidating to raise concerns about how you've been treated on the job.

Farm labor contractors have the highest rate of known labor abuses through the H-2A program.

But in reality, the Department of Labor investigates very few H-2A workers.

And so we really have a limitation in to actually monitor these situations and make sure that workers are being treated well, which is also a huge disadvantage to the employers who are treating workers well.

It's more costly for them if they have to compete with the dishonest employers.

So this is an issue.

- Okay, thank you.

Caller from Big Timber.

And I like questions like this because it makes Sam really think.

- [Sam] Oh no.

- Don't laugh yet.

(Sam laughing) This person recently read an article in the Wall Street Journal that indicated that Tyson Foods, who is one of the largest providers of beef in the United States, lost literally $250 million last quarter, even though beef prices, he claims, were up 9%.

Why is that?

- Yeah, so this is a really interesting topic, and Diane deals with economics more than I do, so she might.

- [Jack] You can't pass the buck.

- Yeah, I would love to pass the buck here, but I can at least touch on it, and maybe she can correct me when I'm wrong.

But anyway, we actually just had a recent, in April, we had the Montana Nutrition Conference and Livestock Forum, and we actually had someone from Cattle Facts come in and talk about beef markets, where beef markets are, buying power, purchasing power.

And you know, for the first time in quite a while, the power, I guess you could say, is in the cow calf producer's hands.

That's where a lot of these big prices are.

And so when you think about how these cattle go from the cow calf, to the feeder, to the packer, and how all of that distributed, even though cattle prices are up substantially, that doesn't necessarily get reflected proportionately on the packer side of thing.

And so that's where it can relate.

I guess that's not a great thing for packers to lose that kind of money.

But at the same time I think there's also shown that there's quite a demand for beef still and just protein in general.

And so I guess I'm not personally worried about it yet, but it's something that could definitely, you know, if they keep losing money like that, that could be a problem.

- The article, and I saw the same article, it said that cattle numbers to be purchased for processing are at the lowest level since 1950s.

And I'm sure that has, inflation can't keep up or price can't keep up.

Although I will say, I've noticed the price of beef in stores is gone up.

There's no doubt about it.

Still a good buy.

And I still love a good steak and a good burger, but the industry has changed.

And do you foresee when we're going to have a greater supply of cattle?

- Yeah, that was actually a big subject of that Cattle Facts talk.

And even though we're seeing these like huge, huge price increases or markets for cattle, there's no, the indicators that we're reaching a peak and starting to come down hasn't hit yet.

So as far as what they were saying, there's still potential for those prices to go up.

And I think one of the main things driving that is kind of what you talked about is inventory.

And so we like to think in Montana, you know, a few years ago we had basically two years of regional drought that was substantial.

I think Montana alone had to destock by 250,000 head.

And then, and so we like to think, I think sometimes we think in a box of like, well that happened in Montana, but what about everywhere else?

And a lot of those cattle got shipped from Montana to places like Oklahoma, Kansas, Texas.

Well, that drought just kind of moved when we kind of ended it here.

It just moved, it almost moved to other places in the region.

So as we've gotten better, other places are now being hit with drought.

And so inventory as a whole, I think, has dropped substantially.

And with prices at where they are, there's not a whole lot of, I guess you could say that a heifer's worth more to sell than it is to keep right now to keep.

So it's hard.

There's not a whole lot of indicators there to say, hey, we should start retaining a bunch of heifers when a heifer is worth so much.

- Yeah, good point.

- [Sam] Anything different or?

- [Diane] I'm learning things, so.

(panelists laughing) - So am I, that's great.

So the question came here from, actually I have two of them, one from Billings and the other is from Richey area.

And they said, years ago we used to see a lot of migrant laborers in the sugar beet fields.

And you remember that, I remember that.

- [Nina] I absolutely remember that.

- And what is different now from then?

Do we have an answer for that?

- Absolutely.

Roundup ready, so.

Yeah, so they've replaced that labor with herbicides.

So you mentioned that, you know, many years ago, I was in Billings and my husband and I had a truck farm, and we neighbored sugar beet farms.

And every year you would see the laborers going through and hand hoeing all of the fields.

And there was a tremendous amount of labor that was associated with sugar beet production.

Now I don't know of any hand labor that actually goes into the field during the year.

And it's all done with herbicides.

- And monogerm seed so you don't get- - Right, absolutely too, there's no thinning, yes.

- [Jack] So you don't need to-- - Yes, they pellet the seed so that you don't get the clusters, 'cause sugar beets have kind of a gnarly seed coat, and they'll cluster together kind of like your spinach does.

- And so, yeah, now they've got those pelleted seeds, and they can get a nice perfect spacing.

- So on that labor issue, you were with the potato industry.

I can go back into the '80s where I'd go out in the fall during potato harvest, and there'd be 20 or 30 women along a conveyor belt, chucking out rocks and broken potatoes and vines.

Who does that now?

- So there are still a few people on the conveyor lines.

You can never get rid of the human factor 100%.

But I would say about 80% of those people have been replaced by machinery.

So the things that you'll commonly see they have these things called vacuum separators, where the potatoes are actually conveyed through a container.

It kind of looks like a small shipping container that has a extremely high volume vacuum, and that takes off all of the lightweight debris, like the stems and roots and things like that.

And then it goes to another piece of equipment called a clod hopper, which separates out all of the dirt clods.

It actually, it bounces them across belts that are at different widths, so it'll bounce out potatoes that are under size.

Also, if the potatoes have been frozen, they have a different density 'cause they're kind of mushy and wet, and those will not bounce as much as a healthy potato.

And so a lot of that sorting is done by machines now.

- I'm gonna ask you, were in the industry, how pricey are these machines?

- Very, very expensive.

So a mid-sized farm to just have one line running the vacuum separator and the clod hopper, the vacuum separator for medium-sized farm's gonna be, for new equipment, 250 to 400,000.

And that clod hopper's gonna cost the same amount.

So for, you know, a medium volume, it's going to be at least a half a million, and then up to 800,000.

And that doesn't include all of the conveyors that are needed to get from all of the different pieces of equipment.

So, you know, you get into the millions of dollars very, very quickly for just getting potatoes into the cellar.

- [Jack] Yeah, I can believe that, definitely.

- But one thing about that too is not only is it replacing that labor, but it's also increasing the number of acres that a farm can actually operate.

Because when they did rely on on human labor, you can only put so many people out in that yard.

It gets a little bit more complicated.

But this has really allowed the farmers' farms to become larger.

- Okay, thank you.

Sam, quick question for you.

This person up at Ryegate, which has a lot of rattlesnakes, wants to know if cattle, they get bit by rattlesnakes, how do they respond to it?

- You know, I am not a veterinarian.

(panelists laughing) - [Jack] I love getting these good questions for you.

- You know, so I can't really say too much, but I don't think it's like uncommon, you know, for an animal to maybe, it's like porcupine quills, you know, you'll find cows come in with porcupine quills in their nose and stuff.

They do get curious.

So I'm sure that somewhere along the lines, some go in and find a rattlesnake, and may get bitten.

My knowledge on rattlesnakes, a lot of times they can be dry bite.

It's just warning bites.

So I think it kind of depends on how that works.

But I've never heard of a cow dying from a rattlesnake bite or anything like that.

I think probably worse they might end up with an abscess or some necrosis around a bite site or something like that.

But yeah, whoever wrote that in is probably better off to ask their veterinarians on what to do and how to look for those, 'cause that's a little bit outside my area of expertise.

- I think this person was just, I mean, a cow is a little bit bigger than we are, and probably can withstand a dose of a rattlesnake better than we could, but who knows?

Yeah, veterinarian would be the good person to ask.

- [Sam] Veterinarian would be a good spot.

- Abi, from Great Falls, this person says that their asparagus is all bending in one way.

It did not freeze, but it's all leaning in one direction rather dramatically.

Any clue as to why.

- Yeah, it's interesting 'cause something similar came up that our plant pathologist, Eva Grimme, from the Schutter Diagnostic Lab, we put our heads together to figure out, but she figured out that usually when asparagus bends and it's all facing the same direction, it could be wind related.

And so if you have a lot of prevailing winds, one side will dry out faster than the other.

And so you'll notice the asparagus spears bend towards the windward side.

And I had never seen or heard of this before.

So it was very interesting to learn about.

So that could possibly be what's going on in this situation.

- If it happens in Great Falls, it could happen-- - [Diane] I definitely see the wind-- - Another thing that will cause bend to asparagus, but it's not always in the same direction, I think it's an asparagus weevil.

- Yeah.

- And they'll feed along one side, and then the stalk will have a little crook in it.

- [Abi] Yeah, absolutely, yeah.

- All right, Diane, I'm gonna throw you a curve now.

Kalispell caller is concerned about youth being hired to clean dangerous machinery from hog processing, chicken processing, so forth and so on.

Florida tried to pass a law for youth to work these jobs.

Is that gonna happen here in Montana, do you believe?

- I honestly don't know, so.

- [Jack] I don't either.

I would doubt it, but.

- There's a lot of dangerous work in the agricultural sector, so it's a challenging industry in that respect.

- On that note, how old do you have to be to work on a farm here in Montana?

- I don't know.

Do you know?

- I mean, if I'm to be hired, I mean, if you worked on a farm when you were nine, right?

- Yeah, so I think it's 14.

I mean, and I think it's, I'm not 100% sure, but I think it's 14, which is the same age that you can get a job.

But I think there are exceptions for families naturally.

- [Jack] And you were one of those.

- Yeah.

- [Jack] I've heard about this.

- So honestly, I didn't work as much on the farm as I did.

I raised vegetables when I was in high school, so that's how I made my money for college.

Because I had four older brothers, so to be very honest, they did most of the work on the farm and the ranch, so.

- You were the spoiled one.

- I was the spoiled one, exactly.

- Okay, Sam, this is a good question.

We're talking about labor.

Nina pointed out that technology and mechanization has helped labor costs.

In the livestock industry, has technology helped reduce labor costs?

- Yeah, I mean, it is a really interesting thing to bring up, 'cause when you start thinking of technology, precision agriculture is usually one of the first things that pop up.

And when you think of precision agriculture, it's not necessarily the ranch that you think about.

But in the last five years, I've seen more technology being applied to the livestock production systems side of things than I've ever seen before.

So they range from anywhere from solar powered GPS ear tags where you can get almost real time data to look at where your cows are and how to find them.

There's a company out of the Dakotas called 701x.

They have a algorithm that claims if you put this on your bull, that they can measure how many times your bull mounts a cow or cows in general.

So you can figure out which bulls are out working, and which ones are hanging out by the water hole.

(panelists laughing) And then, you know, I know Merck Animal Health just came out with some of their ear tags for both a cow calf and a feedlot system that uses accelerometers, which would be about the same technology, it's in a cell phone or your activity watches where they're tracking animal activity to see when they're coming into heat, for those who are trying to breed, you can see, and I haven't seen anybody advertise it quite yet, but there's a lot of folks working on, can you detect when an animal's calving based on changes in their daily activity?

And then of course, the big one that everybody's talking about is virtual fence and virtual fence capabilities, 'cause you know, we're talking about labor shortages and things like that for agricultural industry, but I think that extends to also like fence companies and contracting out fencing.

So you look at fence materials and fence labor, permanent fence is getting really expensive to put in.

And then, you know, the last thing that's really interesting are drones.

And so I just gave a talk on technology, and the livestock production systems in Circle in Jordan a couple months ago, and I asked if anybody was using drones, and I had five or six producers in the group raise their hands that they're using drones in some capacity, whether that's to check waters, or run out and see where their cattle are in the field, or checking different equipment or pasture conditions and things like that.

So yeah, the technology is really booming in the livestock industry right now.

I guess the one thing I would throw out there is a caveat to that is some of this is relatively new, and so great ideas, great technology, there's still, oops, sorry, there's still a part associated with that, that is, can that technology withstand cattle?

So like if we put an ear tag on a cow, is it gonna come back in?

Especially if we're talking about bulls and stuff like that.

So yeah, if you're interested in that technology, I would definitely do some researching and do some talking and make sure that it's up to the physical capabilities of doing what it is you want it to do.

- What are some of the price ranges, for example, for the virtual fence callers?

- Yeah, that's a great question.

And so virtual fence is interesting.

There's four or five companies that are operating in the US right now, and they all kind of operate off of different ways.

So some of the systems, you buy the collar itself, and that collar is then yours, and some of them operate off of like a lease, or some kind of contracted services where you basically lease that collar for a couple years on a per unit basis.

Usually the leased option's cheaper.

So I know a couple companies that are probably in like the $40 per collar lease rate.

Most of those systems though also use, so a tower to communicate back and forth so you can change those virtual boundaries in real time, and move things around those towers.

Typically you have to purchase, and those aren't cheap but they vary.

I know like the vent system has a tower that's supposed to go out a really, really long ways.

But I think those are like in the $10,000 range.

- [Jack] Wow.

- Some other companies have some towers, I would say, are more in that 2 to $3,000 range, but they don't cover as much area.

So things like that.

But yeah, it really depends on how many cows where you're at, the topography on how those, so almost all the companies, you gotta work with a rep on some level and so they can look at your ranch and work through a cost for you.

- You know, I've never been a rancher around them that much, but I have the last few years paid a lot more attention to it.

What the ranchers are doing now with technology is pretty impressive, and what they're doing with conservation issues using technology is even more impressive.

On that note, the Stock Growers Foundation has a tour tomorrow, and post and I will be up there.

It is the G&G Cattle Company, Cache Cattle Company that got an Environmental Stewardship Award that the foundation gives.

These people do a really nice job, and they need to be recognized.

So when you see people that get these awards, let 'em know that they're appreciated.

Another one that you mentioned with the virtual fencing is the Rancher Stewardship Alliance up at Malta who has made a lot of progress utilizing some of this virtual fencing.

So great organizations, and they really do some nice work.

So, Abi, quick one here from Dylan.

Is there a safe way to control dandelions in lawns that have pets?

- Yeah, one of the best ways to control dandelions, it depends on how many you have, and it could be a little project if you have, you know, kids or grandkids, family members that you wanna set out there with some glasses of lemonade.

But a dandelion fork or like a tool that will go in like a soil knife can pop out those taproots pretty easily.

And so if you have, you know, an afternoon, and you have quite a few, I did that to my lawn, I just pop them out, and it's pretty satisfying to pull out the dandelions.

Try and get as much of the taproot as possible so they're less likely to propagate from But dandelions are pretty effectively controlled through mechanical controls.

- [Jack] That's a lot of work.

- It is a lot of work.

- Okay, enough said about that.

Diane, interesting question here.

It's from Polson, and they want to know, do you anticipate the labor shortage that we have here in the state of Montana to continue over the next decade?

And that's a crystal ball question.

- Yeah, so I guess like as an economist, I always get nervous when I hear the term labor shortage, because when we hear that we think, oh, you should just raise wages, and then workers will come until there's no longer a shortage.

You need those to just equalize demand and supply.

But agriculture's really unique because we do have these seasonal labor markets, and it's not necessarily that we have a national shortage, but the labor supply is getting tight, people are less migratory.

So I don't think that's going to change, given what's happening in the economy in Mexico.

People moving off of farms.

I just conducted a survey in Mexico this winter, asking people how much they would have to be paid in Mexico that they would no longer want to work in the H-2A program, and this was in rural Mexico, rural southern Mexico.

And honestly you didn't have to pay them that much more than the minimum wage.

The, you know, currently everyone in our survey, well nearly everyone in our survey is like, yeah, I'd love to work in H-2A for that wage.

But if they got paid just a little bit more in Mexico, they'd rather stay in Mexico.

So all of these technologies that Nina and Sam have talked about, I think that research and development in these areas will continue.

The adoption does take a long time, 'cause just as Sam said, there's great ideas.

It doesn't necessarily mean that they're ready to actually go into commercial farms.

But it's also interesting, as I'm listening to these different technologies, some of them are labor saving, some of them might not be.

As we talk about precision ag, someone still has to interpret all of that data so it increases production, but we still need a lot of workers who have the skills and capabilities to fix equipment when it breaks, and to read and interpret data.

So skillset's important.

- One thing that we've actually seen at the university a little bit on those lines is that we now have a precision ag minor, and there's a lot of interest of students, or even a lot of our students are actually come from families on the farm, and are excited to go back to the farm because technology is becoming such an increasing part of the farm.

It's like almost reinvigorated some of the youths' interest in going back to the farm.

And so yeah, it's really interesting, like there's a lot of interest and demand.

The fact that we're putting technology on cattle, you'd be surprised you start talking to engineers out there and go like, oh man, could we put this on cows?

And I'm like, sure, we can try, you know?

We'll see if it stays on, but we'll try to put it on there, yeah, so.

- Agriculture is changing at a rapid rate, and it's exciting to be in that field right now.

There's no doubt about it.

From Liberty, Nina, I like this one, because I see the same thing.

When the caller buys a bag of potatoes in the store, they often have bad spots black that have to be cut out.

Why is the quality so poor?

- Well, a lot of that has to do with how they're handled.

And so potatoes are actually very tender vegetables, and a lot of times that's not even a pathogenic thing.

There's a thing called black spot bruise.

And so you bump a potato, and it produces phenolic compounds and it produces a bruise that turns black.

There are also pathogens, you can get fusarium, which will start out black, and then you'll get a little bit of white-ish gray and stuff in there.

But a lot of it goes down to how they were handled, and how they were stored and that type of thing.

So, and there are a lot of things that can happen between the farm and when it actually hits the grocery shelf.

- So if I make mashed potatoes out of a Russet that has four or five black bruises on it, are they gonna disappear in the potatoes, or the potatoes are gonna have black in 'em?

- They're gonna have black in 'em.

You need to cut those out.

- [Jack] Okay, yeah, just double checking.

- Yeah, absolutely.

You're not gonna get rid of that by cooking.

- Okay.

Abi, rhubarb seems to be sending up flower stalks early, and I see this not so much this year, but in other years.

Why is that?

- So sometimes plants will send out flower stalks when they're a little bit stressed.

We see that with bolting with a lot of our cool seasoned veggies as temperatures warm.

So it could be stressors that could be impacting it, but I don't think it would be anything to worry about for something like that.

You just pop out that rhubarb flower stalk, and that'll help your plant put the rest of that energy into just growing and not diverting those resources into the flower stalk.

So just removing that, but stress can often trigger that.

Is that what you've seen too?

- Yeah, and I think stress from the previous year.

- Absolutely.

- So if the plant was a little bit dry the previous fall, I think that could potentially encourage it to flower earlier.

- [Abi] Absolutely.

- That makes good sense, definitely.

Question, is the H-2A program good for Guatemalans and other South American countries?

Will work for people coming in from them too?

- Yes, you can hire workers from other countries.

We have very small share coming from Central and South America, and it's just keep in mind the rural population of Central America is quite a bit smaller than the rural population of Mexico.

And we're not going to be recruiting many urban workers to our farms.

- So here in Bozeman, another question following up on that.

We are seeing a construction boom.

This isn't due to ag, but we have a construction boom here in Montana, especially Bozeman.

A lot of these are Spanish-speaking workers.

Are they all on H-2A or any clue?

- Construction does not qualify for H-2A.

H-2A is agriculture only.

- [Jack] Okay.

- So I'm unsure what visas workers might be coming in on for construction.

H-2B would be the Seasonal Guest Worker Visa for the non-farm sector.

It is capped every year.

So it does have different regulations than H-2A.

And there's a limit to how many H-2B workers can come.

- Well this person says that they anticipate over 5% of the population in Bozeman right now is Spanish speaking.

Is that primarily due to the construction industry?

- I would guess that that's mostly construction.

- So before we got on this program, we talked a little bit about the effects on school systems here in the state.

Their stressed because we have to teach in different languages and so forth and so on.

Do you have any idea how school districts are handling this?

- This isn't my area of expertise, but I've talked to other researchers on campus who have told me that the school system in the Gallatin Valley is very stressed as we're seeing this huge influx of Spanish speaking students.

So it's a major challenge for our community right now.

- Okay, I can believe that.

Sam, from Twodot, this is the second time we've had a question from Twodot.

Years ago, they said that Charolais was using crosses with a lot of Angus and Hereford.

Is that still going on?

You know, it kind of depends on the industry and the goals of the rancher and their objectives.

You know, there is hybrid vigor that is a thing.

So, you know, cross-breeding does allow for some room for increased performance of the herd or the calves of those herd.

But there are quite a few premium programs right now, like CAB, or Certified Angus Beef that are black headed animals.

And so when you cross with a Charolais, you know, there's a chance that you get a pretty light colored calf that may or may not qualify to some of these programs.

And so, you know, the Angus Association, and some of those others have done a great job marketing.

And so I just, I just feel like if there's a decrease in some of that, it's mostly just due to trying to capture premiums of black hided animals.

- Okay.

So on that note, this is my question, what's the difference genetically between a Red Angus and a Black Angus?

- I knew you were gonna ask me something, right?

Yeah, some of the purebred guys might shoot me for this, but really, it's the color.

You know, Red Angus is just a, I can't remember the exact term, homozygous gene for red color.

And so they both come from the same original genetic stock.

You know, that being said, they both Angus, and Red Angus have their own breed association.

So I would say that there is some diverging of that, obviously because now your pure bred Red Angus may be breeding a little bit differently than your pure bred Angus.

But in reality, they are all came from the same breed of cow.

- Okay, but only Black qualify for the Angus program.

- You know, I've heard some talk about Reds being able to start entering that market, but I don't actually know if there's any truth behind that at the moment, or if that's just speculation or talk, but.

- We'll find out in the future.

- [Sam] Yeah, we'll find out.

- Now, we're running down on time.

We've got a few more questions here I want to get to.

Abi, from Kalispell.

The 10-year-old asparagus this person have is coming up tall and spindly this year.

Any clue why?

- I mean, it could be a few things.

Age can be part of it too, and kind of long-term issues, so how often they fertilize could impact it.

And Nina might have additional comments too, but I feel like some, you know, careful pruning and care could help that plant rebound and bounce back.

What are your thoughts?

- So I've actually got this going on in my patch right now, and I have one theory about what's going on, is in some areas, a lot of the seedlings have actually established, and I think they're kind of crowding each other out a little bit.

I've got too much competition going in there.

And in the clumps that, you know, started and haven't gotten as thick, they're nice thick stalks.

And they all were started at the same time, so.

- Yeah, maybe some thinning out and giving them space, and a little bit of, you know, nutrient input could help.

- All right, quick question for Diane.

This person is considering trying to Is there a clearinghouse that you can go through that takes care of the paperwork that you can hire to bring in these workers?

- Yes, there are some organizations that I don't know the names of those in Montana off the top of my head, but yes, you can find someone who has experience doing this and will help you with all the paperwork.

- All right.

Question from last week that we didn't get to, horses on fresh green pasture.

Is there a problem?

I know there's a problem can be with beef, so horses, probably similar.

- Man, I really do my to stay out of the equine space.

(panelists laughing) Yeah, I mean, I would, again, I'd probably talk to my veterinarian or somebody who specialized in equine, but I would imagine just like other animals, I think it depends on the animal, what their basal diet has been prior to turnout, you know, the moisture level in general.

Like with beef cattle and you turn out on those high moisture level, you have a higher rate of passage, things get a little runny.

I would imagine you could see some similar things with horses.

Not as much fiber in that diet, but yeah, that's a little outside my realm.

- So I double checked with Darren Boss, and your answer is correct.

Darren said the same thing.

- Perfect.

- So that works.

Abi, how long can you harvest asparagus?

- You can harvest asparagus for, I mean, 15 or more years.

I've had success with like a patch decently, but I feel like at the like eight to 10 year mark, like it kind of slows down, and I don't know if that was a my gardening issue type thing, but I find that the longer, the older the age, it starts to guess less productive.

- How about in one, I think what they referred to is-- - Oh.

- Within a season.

- Oh.

- Yeah, length of season.

- Usually like three or four times, usually through May, and then I scale back or stop doing that in June.

- I kind of agree with you there.

- And if the stalk start getting smaller Yeah, If they start to get thinner.

- Do you fertilize yours?

- Yes, I do.

- Okay.

- I usually fertilize it in the summer after it's done producing.

- Okay folks, I hear the sound that we're about done again, Next week we have Perry Miller on, talking about winter canola.

And this is really kind of neat, neat stuff, because we've always grown winter wheat here, but we might be able to grow winter canola next year or in the future.

So with that, folks, join us next week.

Thank you for being here.

Diane, I appreciate you coming in this evening.

Lots of good questions.

Thanks to everybody else.

Folks, have a good night.

We'll see you next week.

Take care.

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(country music) - [Narrator] Montana AG Live is made possible by The Montana Department of Agriculture, MSU Extension, The MSU Ag Experiment Station of the College of Agriculture, The Montana Wheat and Barley Committee, Cashman Nursery and Landscaping, The Gallatin Gardeners Club, and The Montana Federation of Garden Clubs.

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