- [Presenter] "Montana Ag Live" is made possible by the Montana Department of Agriculture, (soft upbeat music) MSU extension, (soft upbeat music) the MSU Ag Experiment Station of the College of Agriculture, (soft upbeat music) the Montana Wheat & Barley Committee, (soft upbeat music) Cashman Nursery & Landscaping, (soft upbeat music) the Gallatin Gardeners Club, (soft upbeat music) and the Montana Federation of Garden Clubs.

(soft upbeat music) - Good afternoon, everybody.

Welcome to June.

Very happy to be here tonight for "Montana Ag Live", coming to you from the dynamic and beautiful Montana State University campus on your Montana PBS television stations.

My name is Darrin Boss, Associate Director of the Montana Ag Experiment Station, filling in for Jack this evening.

Got an exciting panel tonight.

Very happy to be here.

To my far left is Sam Wyffels, our Extension Beef Cattle Specialist.

To his right is Noah Davis, a PhD candidate in Animal and Range Sciences.

Welcome, Noah.

To his right is Jane Mangold, our Extension Invasion Plant Extension Specialist.

And to my left is Eric Belasco, our Ag Extension Economist or Ag Economist, my apologies.

- You say that in a... - [Darrin] Not in a bad way.

- Yeah, not in a bad way.

- It's all good, it's all good.

Welcome.

And, Noah, seeing how you're the guest, would you talk a little bit about being a grad student here and just an introduction to who you are and how you got to Montana State?

- Sure.

Yeah.

So, I came to Montana State 11 years ago.

I got undergraduate degrees in animal science and range management, and then I rolled right into grad school.

Before I could finish that, I got a job out at the Red Bluff research station.

Worked there for about four years, and now I'm back finishing a PhD.

And I do research in beef cattle nutrition and grazing management, looking at everything from forage quality to animal behavior.

- It's perfect.

- So, glad to be here.

- Awesome.

- Well, thanks, Noah.

And while I've got everybody, let's introduce our phone operators.

We have Bruce Lobel and Nancy Blake.

So, let's get those phones going.

We'll be talking about beef range management.

I'm sure there's a lot of questions out there for people to ask.

In the interim, we had a question from last week, Jane from Missoula.

"We control cheatgrass by mowing our lawn, but what about bulbous bluegrass?"

- Oh, yeah.

I love this question.

So, first, I wanna say good to hear that you are controlling cheatgrass with mowing.

Congratulations.

It's not an easy thing to do, but it seems like you're doing a good job.

Bulbous bluegrass is a little bit different.

Bulbous bluegrass actually, it doesn't produce seeds, it produces bulbils.

So, if you look at a bulbous bluegrass plant carefully, if we, I think I have a photo, if we can pull that up, that's fortuitous to have that photo tonight, I guess.

But it actually produces what are called bulbils.

And those are little immature plants.

They're not dormant.

They're just ready to go as soon as they hit the ground and conditions are right for their growing.

And you can see that on the photo.

There's that reddish purple color.

It looks swollen.

Instead of a seed, it produces a little baby plant right on the top of the plant.

And actually, if you mow bulbous bluegrass when it's in this growth stage, you're scattering all those little immature plants.

And you can actually make the problem worse by mowing, if you're mowing when the plant gets to this growth stage.

So, while mowing does work well for cheatgrass in lawn settings, probably not the best approach with bulbous bluegrass.

You'd have to do the mowing well before it got to that bulbil-producing stage.

- Great.

Would this be the same for grazing and do you wanna keep cattle off it when they're grazing, when they're in that same stage or as livestock?

And what's - Yeah.

- the nutritional quality?

- It actually, those bulbils are pretty high in starch.

I know wildlife will use the bulbils.

There's actually like research that has shown some of, like upland game birds will use those bulbils.

I'm not sure if cattle would eat them or not.

There's nothing toxic about them.

- [Darrin] Okay.

- They're not prickly like a cheatgrass, like an on, on a cheatgrass seed.

And I'm guessing they would be broken down in an animal's rumen if they pass through.

- Mm-hmm.

- So, I- - I've seen cattle eat it before.

Usually when it's at that stage, there's a lot of other good things for a cattle to eat as well.

- Yeah, yeah.

- So, I don't know that they would preferentially chase after it, but I have seen 'em eat it.

And I think the same thing like that starch is gonna be broken down in that rumen of that cow really fast, them chewing on, on those bulbils and stuff.

I think that they would probably destroy those baby plants.

- Mm-hmm.

- I don't think they would be propagated like maybe some seeds are - Right.

- in some scenarios.

- Perfect.

Thank you.

Thanks for the call, Missoula.

Noah, seeing how you're a special guest, a caller from the Malta area.

"Want to graze later into the winter.

What are some things I should consider?"

- Yeah, that's a good question.

So, there's a handful of things to consider and I'll give you two things to think about.

One, from the plant perspective, it's important to remember that if you're grazing perennial plants, which if you're up in Malta, if you're grazing rangeland, most of those plants are gonna be perennial.

They're still alive.

And so, treat them as such.

You should still make the same prudent grazing decisions that you make during the growing season, during the winter time.

I don't think of it as free forage or extra forage.

Grazing during the winter time is that plants are more durable, but you can still cause damage.

And the other thing to think about is from the animal perspective, they still need to be able to have enough forage to graze.

And so, I always recommend if you can stockpile pastures, don't graze them during the growing season, enter them in the winter time, so that they have adequate forage to go in and graze.

And especially up on the high line, you get some pretty big snowstorms sometimes.

Make sure that if there is a snowstorm, they can still get to that feed.

Otherwise, you might need to think about bringing in some hay.

- Thanks, Jack.

- [Darrin] Perfect.

Thanks, Noah.

- To add onto that too, from the animal's perspective, a lot of times in that winter scenario, those forage, even though it's forage, it's good, it's there, it probably won't meet those animal's nutrient requirements for that stage of production cycle.

So, usually what we try to do in those scenarios, in addition to what Noah was talking about, is make sure we provide some kind of protein supplement and that actually helps the animals utilize that forage a little better and get more nutrients from it.

- Great.

- Mm.

- I have a follow up question for Noah.

You mentioned, like grazing prudently and I was always taught - Mm-hmm.

- the adage, take half, leave half.

I'm curious what your thoughts are on that, but then also thinking about, - Let me (faintly speaks) - in the winter, let's say there's six inches of stubble or remaining plants from the fall, are you saying like you would take it only down to three inches, or what are your thoughts on that?

- Oh boy.

(Jane chuckles) That is a can of worms though.

- Okay.

(panelists laughing) - The take half, leave half rule is widely used and it has done a lot of good.

But if you, Sam has actually done some studies on this, but if you take half of say, a bunchgrass, and you look at what that looks like on the ground, it's pretty short, to the point that we would say, oh, maybe that looks heavy to us.

And the other thing to think about is if your animals are using, no plants are actually used halfway, right?

Most grazing is either the entire plant or none of the plant.

- Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

- And the take half, leave half thing is really a pasture level average.

So, yeah, it's a really, it's a prickly one to get into.

- [Jane] Okay.

- But yeah, I don't know if you've got any more to add on that project.

- Yeah, no, I mean, some of the stuff that we've seen, like maybe that 50% biomass seems pretty like, if it's six inches tall, three inches, half biomass works more on the rhizomatous type grasses, the grasses that spread out, lawn type grasses.

But when you start talking about bunchgrasses, the majority of the biomass is actually in the basal area.

And so, sometimes, up to 50% of the basal biomass can be within the bottom two inches.

So, by a 50% use, - Hmm.

- you'd be grazing down to this far.

And I don't think you want your pasture average to look like that.

- Yeah.

- So, it kinda, as Noah mentioned, it's kind of a tough one to get into and there's some caveats, and yeah, it's one of those scenarios where it depends.

I know producers don't like hearing that, but it just depends (panelists laughing) on the area, the condition of the range, things like that.

- Perfect.

- Thanks.

- Thanks, guys.

From Dylan, Montana, Eric.

"With the current depressed cow herd across the United States, how long will the cow-calf industry be profitable in Montana, and what does your magic ball say?"

- What does my magic ball say?

Okay.

(chuckles) Unfortunately, no magic ball, but I'll give my best.

- All right.

- But it is great to be here with some other animal science experts.

So, I'm sure you guys will weigh a little bit on, 'cause there's two sides to the profitability.

There's obviously revenue, prices are really strong right now.

If you're looking to sell cattle in the next six months, you probably are seeing prices you've never seen before, which is great news.

Input costs are up quite a bit.

A lot of that price is high because there hasn't been the rebuilding yet.

There's been some mixed signals nationally about rebuilding.

So, probably in certain areas, you're seeing some of it, holding back some heifers to try to rebuild some of those herds.

The prices certainly look high enough for that rebuilding to occur.

But it's one thing I've heard is it's an input cost question as well.

And I know a lot of the work that Noah and Sam been talking about are different ways to keep those costs lower, whether it's through range management or precision ag we'll talk about later, but keeping your costs down, taking advantage of those good prices while they're still here.

Did I answer that?

What exactly was the question?

When is the rebuilding- - So, how long will they be profitable, cow-calf industry be profitable in Montana?

- Mm.

Right now seems like a good time just with high prices.

I think the more concern is a year or two out, if prices don't remain that high, is it gonna still be profitable?

And at three bucks, I think you can make it work out.

If it drops significantly below that, starts to catch up with costs.

- And interesting, I saw a stat this week from cattle facts and some things that I read on a regular basis, and we've gone from maybe two and a half calves to pay for some of the prices we're paying for these bred cows right now, - Yeah.

Mm.

- to four.

So, I guess my question would be is, are we staying in that high price range the next four years, you think, to be able to pay off that really expensive cow or that pregnant cow we're seeing right now?

- Yeah, that could be part of it.

I think it's, yeah, it's not just the, yeah, the pregnant cows, but all the input costs.

I think once you start to see rebuilding a little bit more actively, and one of the things you need for that is good weather.

But I think once you see that, you'll start to see the prices respond...

Unfortunately, they'll be coming down, but that's gonna be the response that you'll see once that rebuilding occurs.

- Perfect.

Thank you.

Sam, we have a caller from Butte.

Dr. Bajwa mentioned at the previous meeting about exciting things happening in precision livestock management, but she didn't go into much detail.

Can you talk a little bit about what happened at Montana State in precision livestock management?

- Yeah, yeah.

I don't think it's just precision livestock.

That's the area that I fill in.

But there's a bit, a lot going on in precision agriculture at Montana State.

I know Dean Bajwa comes from a precision ag background and that's been a big push for her.

But livestock specifically, well, I guess to start, precision agriculture, when that comes up, most people typically think of the commodity cropping systems or even some invasive plant weed control stuff.

But I would say in the last five years, it's really taken off in the livestock industry.

And so, we're seeing things like virtual fans, GPS systems, activity sensors, things like that, that are popping up in livestock production.

So, at Montana State, some of the projects that we have going, and Noah's part of these, and so I don't wanna step on his toes too much, I'll let him talk about some of it, but I'll kind of introduce it for him, is we got a project we're starting actually just this week, looking at virtual fence grazing in a riparian zone, and seeing if we can control access to that riparian zone or that water, that creek.

And looking at how that works with two different grazing management strategies with the intensive grazing versus just the general grazing.

We've done, I'll show a couple things here.

We've done a couple studies using this technology here.

This is a bolus.

And so, that goes inside the cow.

You bolus the cow with that and that gives you internal temperature, pH, and activity of the cow every, it depends on the product, but 10 to 15 minutes usually.

And so, we've done some feeding trials, we've done some of that up at the Northern Ag Research Center where we're looking at how different diets and different management strategies impact the ruminal efficiency of that animal.

So, it's tracking ruminal stress, things like that.

Here's a couple more ear tags I'll put out here.

These are activity sensors.

Same technology that is in a basic, a Fitbit or an Apple iWatch, something like that.

So, if you ever wondered like why you got your watch on and you go for a jog, and all of a sudden your phone or your watch knows that you're jogging, that's an activity, it's basically reading G-force in three different directions.

And there's some pretty cool signatures that line up.

And so, a lot of companies are using this to detect things like estrus in animals, so knowing when to breed or if an animal is going into estrus after she's been bred, so maybe she's open before preg checking, things like that.

We've been using it to look at different behaviors.

I'll let Noah go into that here in a second.

I don't want to jump into that one yet 'cause that's a big part of his PhD program that he came to talk about.

But I know that Merck Animal Health has two systems, one for a feedlot and one for a cow-calf now that just came out.

And they're looking at being able to just detect general illness, activity, changes, lameness.

Maybe one thing that everybody seems to be searching for in the tech world that we just haven't gotten to yet is can we detect calving with these?

Most all these systems connect with some kind of radio tower or cellular, so you get fairly real time information just sent directly to your phone.

So, I guess think about a system where you're, instead of having to go out and check calves all the time, or even if you are still gonna go check calves, you get a notification on your phone that with a list of cows that are hitting the mark for activities consistent with calving.

And so, we've been doing a bunch of that and I'm gonna toss this over to Noah to talk about his stuff, 'cause that's probably where we've focused at Montana State the most.

- Please, Noah.

- Yeah.

So, I'll talk about one of the most recent projects we've been doing.

We're working with a producer in South Central Montana, just south of Billings, where we are using these tags.

This is an ear tag.

It's got a solar panel on it, accelerometer, same thing as the other technology Sam was just showing, a heart rate monitor, and relatively accessible price point here.

And we're putting these on bulls to track breeding behavior over the course of the breeding season.

Producer came and said, "I wanna know what bulls are working, what bulls may be aren't, I wanna know where they are.

Are they going where the cows are?

Are they going in the far corner of the pasture?"

And so, this tag connects to the cellular network.

There's an app, you go on your phone, and you can see where the animals are.

It'll give you what they're doing.

It'll even is able to predict mounting events.

And so, we're working to validate some of that.

And yeah, we found some really interesting things.

So far, I've done a preliminary analysis and we all know this.

By gut, we're able to quantify some of the differences, for example, between ages of the bulls.

The younger bulls travel much, much further than older bulls.

But some of the older bulls are walking up to 16 miles a day in some cases, some really extreme cases, things like that.

So, just with, there's so much we can do with the technology that's available now.

It's really amazing.

(chair squeaks) - Yeah.

- So, Noah, I have a follow up question on that.

So, are the bulls that run in 16, 18 miles, the one settling the cows, or is the one by the water tank that's breeding cows coming to the water tanks, settling those cows?

- I have not gotten to that part of the analysis yet.

I would assume that particular bull, he's an eight-year-old bull, believe it or not, walking, he walks 16 miles on one day.

But no, from my experience being out on the ground on that ranch, it's the ones that are at the water tanks and the stock dams that are breeding the cows.

- So, are you gonna pair this with DNA technology and on sires and sires of calves?

Are you able to do that?

- We discussed that, but this is a pretty big extensive operation.

And this past year, that would be, this was last year's breeding data.

We weren't able to get any DNA off the calves that are born this spring.

- No.

- But it's something to look forward to in the future, and it's something that we could replicate at some of the research stations where we do have access to that data.

- Outstanding.

Thanks.

Exciting stuff, guys.

Jane, a caller would like someone to discuss the safety of Roundup.

She has thistle - Mm.

- and creeping jenny she wants to treat.

She is concerned about her dog going into her yard after she sprays can.

Is it safe to let her out into the dead plants and how soon can she revegetate and replant vegetables in the area?

- Wow.

Yeah.

There's a lot of questions there to unpack.

(panelists laughing) I wanna start by saying be cautious about products on the shelves these days that have the trademark Roundup.

Because historically, Roundup was glyphosate, a non-selective herbicide used all over the place.

Now, Roundup is a trademarked name - Mm-hmm.

- and not all products have glyphosate in them.

In fact, many of them are two or three different active ingredients for lawns is like four different broadleaf herbicides.

So, make sure you're aware of what the active ingredient, the main herbicide is in your Roundup product.

With that said, some of her questions there, look at the label.

I know we always say read the label, read the label, but you really do need to read the label, because the label has information concerning questions like she's asking, like, when is it safe to reenter an area that has been sprayed?

It can range from one hour to two weeks depending on the herbicide that you're using.

But look at the label.

A lot of that information will be there.

I think there was also a question in there about seeding something else after she- - Revegetating vegetables.

- Yeah.

Again, that's going to depend on what herbicide is actually in that Roundup product.

If it is just glyphosate, that doesn't remain active in the soil and you can seed other things or plant other things into it probably in a day.

- [Darrin] Mm-hmm.

- But if it's one of these Roundup products that has other active ingredients in it that are broadleaf herba, they're broadleaf herbicides that can stay active in the soil a little longer.

So, again, look at the label, make sure you know what the herbicide is.

And the label should have some information about when you can plant other things into treated areas.

- Mm-hmm.

- Perfect.

Thank you.

I think so.

- So, I hope most of those - questions.

- I specifically used it as was worded and understand there's a lot of products - Yeah.

- that say Roundup that may not just be glyphosates.

That's why I read it - Yeah.

- just like she said, so.

- Yeah.

In fact, earlier this summer, I went to a store, looking at Roundup products and couldn't find a Roundup product that included glyphosate.

- Wow.

Hmm.

- They were all something else.

- Something else.

- So, it's an interesting time - Right.

- in terms of Roundup products.

- And par standard for the course is if you have troubles or you don't understand some of the label wording, please take it to your county extension agent.

They would be happy to help you and interpret some of that.

So, it's always good advice.

- Yeah.

Yeah.

- So, perfect.

While we're halfway, I'm not quite halfway through the show, we have some show and display on our beef products here.

I want to thank Jane Boles, our Meat Science Instructor.

She prepared some of these cuts, some of these alternative type cuts we have here on the table today.

We have back ribs, beef ribs, and flanken ribs.

And these give you different options that you may not see, but they're very enjoyable.

You can see they're quite a bit of other material, and it adds a great deal of flavor.

Fat's got some flavor in it, those are very good cuts.

On the left side is a tri-tip, some skirt steaks, which are really good for fajitas.

And then, we have some sirloins down there.

And all those are not what you'd normally expect, such as the rib eyes, and all the things we see at a normal restaurant go to town.

But these are some alternative very flavorful cuts that can be used to make sandwiches and alternatives.

And we actually have some pictures that she provided from our students that are in our, it's a meat discovery class that develops new products.

And so, how do you make a sandwich?

How do you make a new different type of gyro on some of those stuff?

So, don't be afraid to reach out and try some of these alternative.

There's a picture of the beef ribs.

And if you're interested, beefitswhatsfordinner.com is an outstanding source for recipes, a little plug there.

But we're super excited to have these on display.

Some of the things that you see is some kiwi and some pineapple, which those juices actually help some of these, what we would think of as a little more, I wouldn't want, don't wanna say tougher, but they're a little not as easily chewed as some of the rib eyes to break down and marinade those cuts in to give 'em a little more flavor and to break down some of that tissue.

So, thanks, Jane, for putting those all together.

It's making us all real hungry.

Jane says I have to take everybody out for a steak dinner after this.

So, should have thought about that before I brought those in today, but great.

(panelists laughing) Don't be afraid to reach out.

It's grilling season.

Everybody's trying to get on the smoker bandwagons.

There's a lot of options for us here.

So, perfect.

A call from Billings.

Maybe Eric or Sam, "New World screwworm.

What's the implications of the border closure and what is that impacts to Montana beef?"

Who wants to go first?

- Well, I'll give the economic, I don't know if you... (panelists laughing) I'll give the economic argument, or not argument, but what's happened there.

Yeah, so screwworm, anytime you have these diseases, they impact the trade between countries.

So, the US has stopped trade from Mexico because of the finding of screwworm on some of their cows down there.

And if you're on the US side, it probably means you're importing less cows into the US so you're lowering the supply.

So, that should have a bit of an upward, temporary upward impact on prices, but.

- So, if you're thinking cows were like steers or feeders more so than anybody?

- Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

- Yeah.

Okay, okay.

Sam, any input on screwworm?

New World screwworm?

- I think it's more of the economic side of things.

That's the big side of that, 'cause I think we do import cattle from Mexico.

Those are usually used as I think feeder cattle and they're usually used, a lot of times, cattle coming from South America are actually going into some of your fast food restaurant chains, and things like that.

So, I think it could have an impact there.

I don't know if it's gonna have an impact necessarily on breeding stock or cow-calf as much as beef availability maybe or lower.

I don't know if I wanna say lower quality beef availability, but for the fast food chains and stuff like that.

- Yeah.

- Perfect.

Thanks, guys.

- May I ask - Yeah, please.

- like what is screwworm?

Like what does it do?

- To be honest, I'm not a parasitologist by anything, (Eric and Sam laughing) and I'm not super familiar with it, beyond that I know that they found it in Mexico and they don't want it here.

- Okay.

- So, the New World screwworm, I'll take a whack at this, 'cause maybe - Yeah.

- I'm a little older, Sam.

- Yeah.

- So, the New World screwworm was eradicated back in the early '60s.

We've had little outbreaks here and there, and it's a screwworm that impacts all mammals or animals that have a cut and actually live on living tissue.

So, when the screwworm lays an egg, and I'm not an expert, I'm just going by what I've read in some old school, is that when they lay those eggs, it actually burrows in and feeds on active tissue, not necessarily what you think of when you see a carcass on the side of the road or something like that.

So, it's a very invasive to live animals.

And so, the way they eradicated in the old days is they used sterile males.

and they started releasing all kinds of sterile males to keep that down in the southern part of South America.

And so, we just need to get that ramped back up and I think there's a lot of concern that it's moving north, and it got past the isthmus, if you think about - Mm-hmm.

- where Mexico and South America, that isthmus, and it got past that is why there's concerns.

And so, just a little bit of history there, but yeah, good question.

- Yeah.

Interesting.

Yeah, thanks.

- Yeah.

Thank caller.

That's a tough one for tonight.

- Yeah.

- Setting the bar high.

- Yeah.

- The right panel, the right panel is here though.

- True.

- Perfect.

Okay.

Noah, a caller asked, "We don't have a town," oh, it's from Bozeman.

Caller asked if cows can get any nutrition from dried up grass found on winter pastures.

- That is a good question, and the answer is yes.

All that nutrition is, is just the, it's the compounds found within the leaves of grasses or whatever plants that they're grazing.

So, in Bozeman, depending where in Bozeman, Bozeman's got a lot of introduced species, things like smooth brome.

But if we're thinking about range grasses, there's been quite a bit of work on that.

And typically, those grasses will be somewhere between say 2 and 4% throughout the dormant season throughout the winter.

And if we think about our animal nutrient requirements, say we've got a gestating cow, mid-gestation.

She needs about 6 or 7% protein minimum in her diet.

The good news is that our animals are able to not quite get that, but get pretty close, even from grass that's low quality, if we're grazing at relatively moderate stocking rates, so that our animals can go choose the best parts of those plants, choose the best plants, and they can get maybe 5 to 7% protein in their diet.

And so, going back to what Sam mentioned earlier, you still might need to supplement on that, but depends on what kind of animals that you wanna graze that.

But yeah, yeah, you can definitely get nutrition out of dry grass in Bozeman.

- Good.

Perfect.

This is gonna follow up, Noah.

Sorry, you're gonna get two questions in row, but it leads - It's okay.

- into that question that we have is, is this person has distribution problems within their pasture?

Is that what's happening is that these cattle are chasing that grass?

And I'm modifying the question a little bit.

- Sure.

- But this person has grazing problems.

Could that be some of the grazing distribution problems or what do you know about that?

- Yeah, there definitely can be distribution problems in the winter.

In my experience, distribution problems, it's easier to ameliorate them in the winter than it is the summer.

In that, say you already have to go out and provide your animals a little bit of supplemental feed, whether that's a little bit of extra hay or a little bit of protein supplement, or whatever your nutritional program is, is that that feed is an attractant.

And so, when I was out at Red Bluff, we did that all the time.

Our animals didn't really distribute across the pastures very well.

Lots of parts of the pastures were not very well used and other parts were quite heavily used.

And so, we said, hey, we're gonna go up and put the supplement out.

Let's go to that far corner of the pasture, we'll drop this supplement, make sure the cows know where it's at.

And it worked pretty well.

We could use a lot of feed that was not otherwise going to be used.

And so, that is in the winter time, that's one of the easiest things that you can do if that works for your situation.

- Perfect.

Thank you.

Jane, question from a Roundup.

They have a pasture inundated with tansy, and this came in last week, so we're kind of bringing over, "Inundated with tansy but the bees love it.

Should I keep it?

Should I eradicate it?

What should I do?"

- Yeah.

Well, I think it depends on the management goals and what you wanna see your pasture providing.

I'm assuming this is common tansy, that- - I just have tansy, sorry.

- Yeah, yeah, yeah.

(panelists laughing) Yeah, that's interesting.

And if it's flowering now, it's not common tansy, 'cause that flower's in like August.

I wonder if it's a tansy mustard perhaps.

- That'd be my question right now.

- Because I could see tansy mustard attracting pollinators.

- Okay.

- Now, you got me wondering.

(panelists laughing) I think that my answer still stands, (laughs) it depends on if you can tolerate it there.

- Yeah.

- Common tansy, which is now what I'm not thinking they're talking about is a noxious weed.

- Okay.

- So, you don't wanna be letting that spread.

So, little lower tolerance for common tansy than if this is like a tansy mustard.

- [Darrin] Okay.

- And it doesn't really present issues for livestock other than it might be decreasing some of the forage availability.

But if they're okay with it being there and they like the fact that it's providing this, a resource for pollinators, - Mm-hmm.

- I wouldn't worry too much about it.

I don't know if anybody else has anything to add.

Now, we're a little bit perplexed about what she might be, so.

- Yeah, yeah, yeah.

- Yeah.

- No, understanding the call came in last week on Facebook.

- Yeah.

- I would think if you go - Yeah.

- drive around your pastures or your, even your cultivated, we're seeing a lot of mustard right now.

- Yeah.

- You know?

And so, that would be my impression of what that is.

And there's some potential as some of that, depending on how much you have to create some photosensitivity we can see in the hays.

- Oh.

Okay, okay.

- So, that's gotta be a little careful on the density of how much they're eating at one time.

Most animals shy away from it 'cause it's a very - Yeah.

- bitter plate, bitter.

But there is that opportunity.

Sam, anything to add on tansy mustard maybe?

- Yeah, I mean, we've been, Noah's been part of this project too, but we've been doing a project out at Red Bluff, where we're looking at turnout dates at three-week intervals and seeing how that impacts foraging efficiency and diets of cattle.

And there is not a lot, but there's some mustards out there.

I dunno if they're the same exact stuff we're talking about here.

But I don't know, out of all of our diet collections we've done, I think I've maybe seen a handful of I think they typically, - Mm.

- if there's availability of good forage, they're probably not gonna touch it very much.

- Yeah.

- I don't know.

Did you see any more (chuckles) bites than just a couple?

- No.

- Yeah.

So- - No, not of that mustard.

- Yeah.

So, I think if they have availability, they'll probably not eat a whole lot of that mustard anyway.

- Yeah.

- Perfect.

- Before we leave that question, Darrin, - Sure.

- I guess I would encourage the person if, to maybe follow up with either send me an email - Okay.

Do we have Jane's email up?

- or maybe if just follow up like, so we know specifically what plant they're talking about.

- Yeah, that'd be helpful.

- And if they don't, if they're not sure, then take a sample into the extension office and we'll get it ID'd, and then we can have a better answer to maybe how they should approach the species.

- Perfect, perfect.

And we just got a ping from the computer here.

This week is Noxious Weed Awareness Week?

- Yes.

- What's that is?

- Yeah, yeah.

Thank you.

(Eric chuckles) Now, I'll put in a plug for this.

I think it was the 2021 legislative session.

20, we're two, yeah, I think it was 2021 that the legislature established Montana Noxious Weed Awareness Week.

It's the first week in June and it's an opportunity to raise Montana's awareness about noxious weeds and what they are, what sort of impacts they have, how we can best manage them.

So, it started today, it goes Sunday through Saturday.

There's a lot of different activities going on in the counties to, again, raise awareness of noxious weeds.

And you'll probably see a lot of Facebook posts and other social media, maybe some events.

I know some counties use this week to host their annual weed poll.

- Oh, nice.

- Activities like that.

- [Darrin] Very good.

Thanks, Jane.

Very good.

- Yeah, thanks.

- Eric, I'm gonna go a little off-script.

We're in between callers right now, so please make your phone calls in today.

Get 'em into our callers.

But Eric, I knew you just got back from Japan.

Could you tell us a little bit about that trip?

- Yeah, sure.

Yeah.

So, we have at Montana State University, we have different travel opportunities for students.

And they can study abroad.

Either they can study for a semester in another country or they could go with a faculty member.

And so, for the last 25 years, we've had this trip called Ag in a Global Context, where we take students from the College of Ag all over the world.

This year, well, and I guess I'll say the main purpose behind it is to demonstrate that kind of the global nature of agriculture, and then also just show how Montana products end up in other countries.

And so, we have the group here, 23 students from really across MSU, most of them come in from the College of Agriculture.

This year, we went to Japan, which, if you're thinking about foreign markets, where that have a great relationship Japan is really high on that priority list.

So, 23 students, 4 faculty members.

And then, if we could just go to the next picture there, we can show some of the different things that people that we met with.

Here, for example, someone from the Board of Directors from a company Mitsui, which is a Japanese company that procures grains from United Grains here in Montana, Cargill, beef products, they'll bring 'em into Japan.

So, they're very familiar with Montana production.

And so, it was great for the students to go over there and get to see that side of how the global food system works.

So, it's a great opportunity for students.

We also got to meet some students at some other colleges.

So, here, you'll see some of our ag ambassadors, if you've been on campus.

Our ag ambassadors are from the College of Agriculture and they come from all different majors, but they talk about what it's like to be a student here.

Here, they're talking to some students from Japan, telling 'em what a day in the life is at Montana State, which I thought was great opportunity.

We were able to meet with two colleges out there, Kumamoto University - Mm.

- and then Kumamoto Agricultural College as well.

So, great opportunity all around for students.

- [Darrin] Perfect.

- [Jane] How long were you there, Eric?

- It was 10 days.

- Okay.

- 10 days total.

Yeah.

So, Tokyo, Osaka, Kyoto, and then we ended in a Kumamoto, where I think we have a special relationship.

One thing I didn't realize before going out there is that there's a sister museum to the Museum of the Rockies.

So, we got to go visit a dinosaur museum and I know they do a lot of exchanges here with the Museum of the Rockies in Bozeman.

But we walked in and saw a Montana flag right in the entryway.

- Nice.

- We thought, oh, that's pretty neat, so.

- [Darrin] Not Godzilla?

- No, no, no, no.

(panelists laughing) No Godzilla.

Not at that museum.

- Slide check.

(panelists laughing) So, when did Jane and I get to sign up for these international trips?

- Yeah.

That's right.

- Right?

- Well.

- Yeah.

Right.

- Where are you going next year?

- We'll see.

I don't know.

We'll figuring that out.

Yeah, I think we're trying - Yeah.

- to create more of these opportunities for students every year.

- Outstanding.

So, what are the meat counters there?

- What's that?

- How were the meat counters?

- Oh, oh.

Good question.

Yeah.

- We talk about meat, we're talking - Yeah.

Yeah.

- about beef cattle.

How did that go in Japan?

- Yeah.

Yeah, so yeah, thanks to the stock growers and the US Meat Export Federation, we were able to go and meet with some, procure, I don't know what you'd call 'em.

I guess they're in the business of importing US beef products and putting 'em on Japanese shelves.

And one of the things I think that the students recognize is the cuts.

You look at these cuts here, they're thick.

Boy, in Japan, they're all thin, thinly sliced cuts.

But the US market is really large out there.

You'll see quite a bit of US beef on their shelves.

- High quality.

- Yeah, absolutely.

- Perfect.

Thank you.

Sam, could, had a question from my...

I can't even tell what town here.

Calling in and talking a little bit more about the economics of your grazing collars that you had on, how is that, or is it producer-ready right now?

Some of that.

I'm trying to paraphrase the question I had here.

- Yeah.

So, there's four virtual fence companies that, well, there could be more now, it's happening so fast, (laughs) but there's four main ones that are in the US right now.

There's Halter, there's a Gallagher system called, I think eShepherd is what their trademark name is.

There's Nofence, and then there's Vence.

Vence has been around the longest in the US.

- Absolutely.

(faintly speaks) - I can't say who's been around the longest overall, 'cause some of those virtual fence companies started in New Zealand and have been used in dairy systems for quite a while, and have now moved into beef markets and moved into the US.

- Is that... - But as far as price points go and economics, it's very dependent on the situation and what you're looking for.

Each one of those companies has their niche that they work with.

So, like for instance, I believe Nofence is a cellular-based company that does intensive management, grazing management.

And so, you gotta be cognizant of that, because if you don't have good cell service, then obviously, that collars might not be the best.

There's other companies that use LoRa radio tower receivers.

Some companies do both cellular and the LoRa radio towers.

Some have cellular, or solar panels to recharge batteries, some don't.

So, it really just comes down to what it is you want to use it for.

As far as price structure goes, - [Nancy] It's a pleasure.

Thank you.

Bye.

- It depends on the company.

(laughs) Some companies have more expensive towers than others, but the ranges are different.

So, the companies with more expensive towers advertise longer range connectivity to the collars than the ones with cheaper.

And some companies go on your subscriptions where you don't actually own the collar.

You actually are leasing that collar.

Some companies, you purchase the collar.

So, if you just compare those, the purchase of the collar is a lot more or looks a lot more.

But then when you lease a collar for two to three years, it starts balancing out.

As far as whether it's producer-ready or not, I think that's, depends on the context of what you wanna use it for.

There's a lot of folks that are using this, especially, I would say in like meadows or grazing over fields, or cover crops, and stuff like that.

And that's how they were generated, especially in like New Zealand, doing intensive pasture management.

And so, I would say it's probably pretty producer-ready there.

I think where some of the questions come is like, how it relates to certain specific aspects in Montana.

But that being said, Montana seems to be a hotbed for virtual fencers.

There's a lot of producers using virtual fence here that really, really like it.

So, I guess my recommendation would be to either, if you're curious about it, give me a call, talk to an extension agent, talk to a producer that's using it, and just see what their perspectives are.

That leads into another thing is that we do have some newer capabilities here at Montana State, where we are starting to actually test some of these technologies out here in Montana to help give a better perspective But the last thing I'd say about the virtual fence is it's not a physical fence, right?

So, I always joke around, he is probably watching this, but that there's always gonna be that cow that is like my father-in-law's black Lab.

And it doesn't matter how hard you shock that dog, it just keeps going.

And so, it's not 100%, but most of the research I've seen, it's pretty good.

80 to 90% at containment, if not a little better.

The only caveats of those, you wanna make sure you have a nice solid perimeter fence, and then manage within that perimeter.

- Perfect, perfect.

Thank you.

- Yup.

- Noah, a question for you from Bozeman, and there's actually two questions here that I'm gonna combine, that are similar.

(panelist clears throat) Can you explain the difference between Black and Red Angus, and are those (panelist laughing) 100% genetically pure Black Angus that are going into different marketing programs?

- That is a good question.

I'll answer as best as I can.

Sam's the expert on this kind of thing.

(Sam laughing) - [Darrin] Okay.

- The primary difference between Black Angus or Angus and Red Angus is the color.

(panelists laughing) There's been a decent amount of genetic selection over the last 70 years or so, I believe, when they split, but they're both British breeds, very similar in terms of size and structure, foraging behavior, when we're comparing to things like a criollo cow down in New Mexico or something.

And as far as the meat on the shelf that is labeled as Angus meat, I think that is strictly hide color.

I don't know, Sam, do you have anything to add to that?

- Yeah, you're talking like certified Angus beef.

- That'd be my guess - Mm-hmm.

- [Darrin] from the question.

- Yeah.

- Yeah, yeah.

Believe it or not, unless something's changed recently, I think certified Angus beef has got more to do with what percent of that hide color of that animal is black to qualify for that program, rather than actually what percent of cattle genetics are Angus.

That being said, I feel like most of the black cattle that you see year-round are probably gonna be Angus.

Some Simmenthals maybe, but- - There's even Black Herefords now I've heard.

- Yes, yes.

I've just recently come across Black Herefords and White Angus, so - Yeah.

- there you go.

(laughs) - All right.

Tough one.

Good question.

Thanks for trying that one, answering that one, Noah.

(panelist laughing) Jane, from Cascade, "When we spray dandelions with 2,4-D, the dandelion dies but the flower immediately goes to seed as it's dying.

Is that seed viable?"

- I don't know.

(panelists laughing) - These are tough questions tonight, folks.

Good job on the phones.

(panelists laughing) - I would guess it depends on how far along the flower, like how long had it been flowering - Mm-hmm.

- before it got sprayed.

I mean, a lot of asters, the flower opens and it's sitting there and it has to be pollinated, right?

And then, it closes back up, and when it's kind of closes when those seeds start forming.

So, if it would get sprayed and then puff open, I would think there's...

I'm just thinking through this out loud.

(laughs) - Yeah, that's okay.

- There'd be a fair amount of them that probably are viable.

- Yeah.

Huh.

- Because if you sprayed it early enough and the plant's dying, like the flower head would just shrivel up if it hadn't been- - True.

Wouldn't release anything, would it been?

- Yeah, so I would operate under the assumption that at least some of them are viable, and probably not as many as if you would've just not treated your dandelions at all.

- Fair.

Well, understanding that this question's - Yeah.

- about 2,4-D, - Yeah.

- in your opinion, when's the best time to treat for dandelions in your lawn?

Or maybe we can think about hay fields or other things, Jane.

- Yeah.

Well, 2,4-D has a short half-life, so it doesn't stay around very long after you spray it, it's like 14 days.

So, ideally, I think you'd be treating dandelion when it's at that rosette stage, just the bottom leaves that are laying mostly flat against the ground before you start getting the flowering stem, would be ideal.

That question reminds me of Abby Saed, who's often on the show, she's writing the June weed post, which will come out this Friday.

And in her article, she suggests like fall is actually a really good time to treat dandelions, 'cause the herbicide will be taken down into the root as the plant - Mm-hmm.

- is finessing for the season and trying to draw those sugars back into the root to survive to the next year, so.

But then, you miss the seed production for a year.

So, I like treating in the spring.

- Fair.

- Hmm.

- Perfect.

I noticed you have some displays here too.

- Yeah.

- You wanna wanna talk about that while you got the floor?

- I brought two different weedy mustards with me today and I brought them for two reasons.

One is because they're starting to flower, and very obvious.

The other is they're actually, they have some toxicity to livestock including cattle.

So, I thought they'd be good ones to mention.

This one here is white top, and I've been driving around Montana the last couple weeks for field work.

And this is in full blossom.

You'll see it in patches.

It looks like snow, kind of like a patch of snow, kind of a dirty white color.

It is toxic to cattle and goats, I believe, as well.

And animals tend to avoid it, but it can get like bailed up in hay.

It does like hay fields.

The other weedy mustard is hoary alyssum.

They're both perennial species.

They both have white flowers with four petals.

This is also toxic, particularly to horses.

But I think we're also learning a little, there have been some reports of cattle being affected by it.

And again, this is an issue, if it gets bailed up in hay more so than animals eating it directly, 'cause for the most part, these plants don't taste good and animals are going to avoid it if they have other things to eat.

But horses in particular are affected by this hoary alyssum.

And the rule of thumb is if you have forage that is 20% or more, hoary alyssum is when you start seeing toxicity issues with this.

- Perfect.

- So, yeah.

- [Darrin] Not to be confused the pineapple in front of you.

- Not to be confused with the pineapple.

- Outstanding.

We've got about 10 minutes to go.

I pushed this question back for a little bit 'cause it involves all of our candidates.

There are all our panelists tonight.

They come in from Valier.

And the outlook right now is not good for rain for the rest of the summer and we're looking at possibly another drought.

Are there ways for ranchers to manage economically risk from drought?

And I think it could touch each one of our professions.

And so, I don't know who...

It says economics.

So, you wanna take a stab at that first, Eric, and then everybody else - Yeah.

- can fill in maybe?

- Sure.

Yeah, no, and I think on the production side, (Darrin clears throat) yeah, I think we have a lot of expertise.

So, I'll just say on the financial side, there are insurance products that most people look to to manage drought.

The most notable one being the Pasture, Rangeland, Forage insurance product that can be purchased through the RMA.

You basically buy, you insure over a grid and if you have lower than normal rainfall, you get a payment for that.

There are also disaster aid programs to the FSA as well.

So, the economic side is fairly straightforward.

Look forward to, I know there's a lot of research on the production side too that you guys are working on as well, so.

- Yeah, I can, I'll point out the silver lining.

(Eric chuckles) So, in drought situations, the forage, obviously, it dries up sooner than it would otherwise.

And so, your window of really high quality forage is shorter.

But typically, those plants, well, they don't grow as tall, so there's not as much biomass, but they also not have as many of them go to seed.

And so, they will senesce, they will go dormant at a higher quality than they do in really wet years when there's a lot of feed.

And so, if you are grazing through the fall or into the winter time, you know that you might not have to supplement quite as much to makeup for a say, a lack of quality.

But you will run into some problems with, potentially, depending on how your ranch is grazed and how many animals you're trying to feed with a lack of quantity, which then you'd have to make up for with a number of ways, looking either some sort of energy supplementation or just feeding hay potentially for more of the year than you would otherwise.

- Yeah, this has been one, a question that we get a lot, I would say, in the last five years.

There's always seems to be somewhere in Montana that is under some kind of drought scenario.

So, one of the things, like Noah said, even though the quantity of the forage availability is low, usually the quality is a little better.

The one downside is, is that grasshoppers tend to follow droughts as well and they can wipe out that forage before which is not a good scenario either.

So, the big management things that we have on our pocket is one, if qual, or quantity of forage is an issue, is sourcing that.

So, either by hay or renting some pasture somewhere else that may have, renting more pasture or finding some irrigated pasture, or something like that is an option.

The other option that we really have is stocking.

So, that might be a time where if you don't have the forage resources to support the amount of animals is destocking some.

- Perfect.

- But it really just depends, it depends on the scenario.

- Yeah.

Fair, fair.

- Darrin, just a couple things to think about with weeds if we get super droughty is, weeds tend to survive, they're good at surviving, and sometimes we see issues with poisonous plants - Yep.

- when things get droughty, because the weeds are still there and the animals might eat them because they're looking for anything to eat.

So, poisonous plants could be an issue.

And then, the other thing I just wanna say is if it gets to the point where we do have to bring hay in from other places, be really careful about what's coming in with that hay because that can be a vector for new species coming into the state - Absolutely.

- or new species to your ranch - Good point, Jane.

- Yup.

- And if memory serves, I'm looking at the two extension specialists in here.

Wasn't there a drought website, Montana State used to house about drought management and drought resources guide through the Montana Department of Ag and Montana State Extension?

- I think there's a Mont guide, isn't there?

- Yeah, we had a one year, a couple years when we had extreme drought, we had a drought resources website.

I haven't checked lately to see how active that is and if we've done any updates, but there are some resources - Yup.

- on there like Mont guides and whatnot.

- Yeah.

- Perfect.

We're down, getting close to the end of the show here, folks.

I want to thank our panelists today.

Noah, thank you.

Good luck getting ready to defend your PhD, I'm assuming, here shortly.

- Yeah, about six months or so.

- Outstanding.

- Oh, yeah.

- Good luck and thank you.

- Thank you.

- Thanks to the panelists.

A little bit of push, next week, we have the county extension services.

We have Jen Swanson from the Teton County Extension agent from Choteau, Montana here to talk about all the services that you can see, you hear us referencing.

Our county agents or our county boots on the ground in every county and reservation in Montana.

So, it's time to talk to those people.

With that, thank you very much.

Jack, appreciate you letting me stay in, sitting in your seat for ya.

I gotta do one thing.

Thanks, mom, for everything.

She's in town watching.

(soft upbeat music) - [Announcer] For more information and resources, visit montanapbs.org/aglive.

(soft upbeat music) - [Presenter] "Montana Ag Live" is made possible by the Montana Department of Agriculture, (soft upbeat music) MSU extension, (soft upbeat music) the MSU Ag Experiment Station of the College of Agriculture, (soft upbeat music) the Montana Wheat & Barley Committee, (soft upbeat music) Cashman Nursery & Landscaping, (soft upbeat music) the Gallatin Gardeners Club, (soft upbeat music) and the Montana Federation of Garden Clubs.

(soft upbeat music) (bright music)