>>> PRODUCTION FUNDING FOR "QED WITH DR. B" IS PROVIDED BY AMERICAN ELECTRIC POWER FOUNDATION.

BOUNDLESS ENERGY FOR BRIGHTER FUTURES.

AND BY VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

>> I'M DR. FREDERIC BERTLEY, IMMUNOLOGIST AND EDUCATOR.

SCIENCE IS EVERYWHERE AND FOR EVERYONE.

AND IT'S ALL AROUND US, SHAPING OUR LIVES EVERY SINGLE DAY.

IN THIS SERIES, WE'LL LOOK AT CUTTING-EDGE RESEARCH, TALK TO THE SCIENTISTS WHO ARE CHARTING NEW FRONTIERS, AND SOLVING TODAY'S PROBLEMS TO MAKE ALL OUR LIVES BETTER.

WHEN A SCIENTIST OR MATHEMATICIAN DEMONSTRATES A PROOF OF CONCEPT IN THEIR WORK, THEY OFTEN USE THE TERM "QED", QUOD ERAT DEMONSTRANDUM.

THAT ROUGHLY TRANSLATES TO "QUITE EASILY DEMONSTRATED."

WELCOME TO "QED WITH DR.

B."

>>> HEY DR. B.

>> GOOD.

HOW ARE YOU DOING DIANA?

WHAT ARE WE GONNA TALK ABOUT TODAY?

>> TODAY WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT GENETICS AND THIS WHOLE NEW LANDSCAPE OF GENE EDITING.

NOW, A LOT OF TIMES WHEN WE HEAR ABOUT GENE EDITING, WE HEAR THIS NAME CRISPR.

WHAT IS THAT?

AND HOW HAS IT REVOLUTIONIZED GENETICS?

>> CRISPR IS ONE OF THE GREATEST DISCOVERIES IN THE LAST TEN YEARS OF MOLECULAR BIOLOGY AND GENETICS.

IT STANDS FOR CLUSTERED REGULARLY INTERSPACED SHORT PALINDROMIC REPEATS.

NOW, WHAT'S REALLY COOL ABOUT THIS, DO YOU REMEMBER WHEN WE TALKED ABOUT VIRUSES?

HOW WE SAID THAT VIRUSES CAN EVEN EFFECT NOT JUST PEOPLE AND ANIMALS, BUT ALSO BACTERIA?

WELL, BACTERIA HAVE INVOLVED AN IMMUNE RESPONSE CALLED AN ADAPTIVE IMMUNE RESPONSE WHICH ACTUALLY HELPS THEM PROTECT THEMSELVES FROM THESE VIRAL INFECTIONS.

AND THE PIECE THAT ACTUALLY HELPS IS THIS THING CALLED CRISPR.

SO, CRISPR WAS DISCOVERED BY BIOLOGISTS IN 1987.

BUT, MOST RECENTLY DR. CHARPENTIER MODIFIED THIS GENE TO MAKE IT A SCISSOR CUTTING TOOL TO REPLACE A NEGATIVE OR MUTATED GENE AND PUT IN A CORRECT GENE IN ITS PLACE.

IF YOU'VE EVER USED WORD PROCESSING, YOU KNOW WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.

YOU USE THAT FIND AND REPLACE?

YOU'RE FINDING A WORD THAT'S MISSPELLED AND YOU'RE PUTTING IN THE PROPER SPELLING OR A WORD OR REPLACING IT WITH A DIFFERENT WORD.

THAT'S EXACTLY CRISPR CAS PHASE NINE OFFERS FOR US AND IT'S REVOLUTIONIZING MOLECULAR BIOLOGY AND GENETIC ENGINEERING.

>> THAT'S PHENOMENAL.

AND I KNOW THAT THERE IS A LOT OF DEBATE AROUND THIS WHOLE IDEA OF THE ETHICS OF CHANGING YOUR DNA.

BUT, TODAY OUR GUESTS ARE REALLY GONNA SHED A LOT MORE LIGHT ON ALL OF THESE THINGS.

AND IT'S A REALLY FASCINATING, YET VERY COMPLEX AREA OF STUDY.

>> THAT'S RIGHT DIANA.

AND OUR FIRST GUEST IS A WORLD LEADING EXPERT IN GENETICS, DR. GEORGE CHURCH.

DR. CHURCH DEVELOPED THE FIRST DIRECT GENOME SEQUENCING METHOD AND HELPED THE INITIATE THE HUMAN GENOME PROJECT IN 1984, AND THE PERSONAL GENOME PROJECT IN 2005.

HE CURRENTLY LEADS SYNTHETIC BIOLOGY AT THE WEISS INSTITUTE AND IS A PROFESSOR OF GENETICS AT HARVARD MEDICAL SCHOOL.

>>> A LOT HAS HAPPENED OVER THE LAST 30 YEARS.

FROM THE HUMAN GENOME PROJECT IN 1984, THEN THE PERSONAL GENOME PROJECT IN 2005 WHICH YOU ACTUALLY PLAYED A SIGNIFICANT ROLE IN BOTH OF THOSE.

WHAT ARE THE IMPORTANCE OF THOSE STUDIES?

>> THE MOST IMPORTANT ONE IS KIND OF A PROJECT IN BETWEEN THOSE, WHICH IS TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT.

CALLED NEXT GENERATION SEQUENCING WHICH BROUGHT DOWN THE PRICE FROM $3 BILLION TO $300.

WHICH IS GETTING CLOSE TO THE POINT WHERE EVERYBODY CAN AFFORD IT.

ALMOST ALL OF MEDICAL RESEARCH DEPENDS ON THOSE GENOME SEQUENCES.

THE BIGGEST SECRET SAUCE OF THE CONCEPT OF MOLECULAR MULTIPLEXING.

THAT'S THE MAIN REASON WHY THESE METHODS ARE TEN MILLION TIMES CHEAPER THAN THEY USED TO BE.

AND A 100,000 TIMES MORE ACCURATE.

AND IN MOLECULAR MULTIPLEXING, YOU HAVE A DROPLET OF WATER.

AND THAT DROPLET NORMALLY CONTAINS ONE KIND OF MOLECULE.

AND YOU PROCESS IT AT GREAT EXPENSE.

BUT, NOW WITH MULTIPLEXING YOU CAN PUT IN MILLIONS OR BILLIONS OF DIFFERENT KINDS OF MOLECULES IN THAT SAME DROPLET BECAUSE THE MOLECULES DON'T TAKE UP MUCH SPACE.

IT'S MOSTLY WATER ANYWAY.

AND THEY'RE ALL BARCODE TAGGED.

AND BOOM, NOW IT'S TEN MILLION TIMES CHEAPER JUST BECAUSE THERE'S TEN MILLION MOLECULES IN THAT SAME DROPLET.

SO, THE SAME INSTRUMENT IS BEING USED.

THE SAME AGENTS ARE BEING USED.

THE SAME HUNDREDS OF STEPS EACH DROPLET GOES THROUGH.

BUT, INSTEAD OF TREATING ONE MOLECULE OR MOLECULAR TYPE AT A TIME, YOU'RE DOING A MILLION OR A BILLION.

THAT SOUNDS LIKE A MIRACLE, BUT IT IS SIMPLY THE BARCODE HAS SO MANY BITS OF INFORMATION IN IT, YOU JUST CAN'T CONFUSE IT.

IT'S LIKE BARCODES AT THE SUPERMARKET.

>> THIS IS EXCITING.

THE TECHNOLOGY IS ADVANCING INCREDIBLE FAST.

OUR KNOWLEDGE BASE IS CONTINUOUSLY BEING BUILT UPON.

LET'S TALK ABOUT SOME GENETIC ENGINEERING AND THE FUTURE OF GENETIC ENGINEERING.

SPECIFICALLY ARE WE LOOKING AT BRINGING BACK SPECIES?

>> I'M PART OF AN INTERNATIONAL GROUP CALLED REVIVE AND RESTORE THAT IS WORKING ON RESTORING ECOSYSTEMS THAT HAVE BEEN DAMAGED BY EITHER MODERN HUMANS, OR IN SOME CASES ANCIENT HUMANS.

YOU CAN READ OUT THE ANCIENT DNA INTO THE COMPUTER AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO RECOVER THE ENTIRE GENOME, JUST THE PARTS THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL TO INCREASING THE DIVERSITY OF MODERN SPECIES SO THAT THEY CAN EITHER TOLERATE THE CLIMATE CHANGE OR OTHER ENVIRONMENTAL CHANGES.

FRAGMENTATION OF THEIR HERDS, MIGRATION PATHS, AND SO FORTH.

SO, YOU REALLY BUILDING A SLIGHT VARIATION ON MODERN SPECIES SO THEY CAN THRIVE.

AND IN SOME CASES, RESTORE AN ECOSYSTEM THAT IS IN THE BEST INTEREST OF HUMANITY.

FOR EXAMPLE, RESORTING THE GRASSLANDS TO THE ARTIC WOULD INCREASE CARBON CAPTURE AND RETAIN THE 1,400 GIGATONS OF CARBON THAT COULD OTHERWISE BE RELEASED AS METHANE.

>> I'M REALLY GLAD YOU SAID THAT BECAUSE A LOT OF TIMES WHEN PEOPLE TALK ABOUT GENETIC ENGINEERING AND THE DNA TECHNOLOGY, AND BRINGING BACK EXTINCT SPECIES; THEY'RE ALWAYS TALKING ABOUT, OR AT LEAST IN HOLLYWOOD, THE WOOLLY MAMMOTH.

OR IT'S ALWAYS AN ANIMAL.

BUT, I LOVE THE FACT THAT YOU'RE TALKING THIS IS MUCH BIGGER.

THIS IS THE ECOSYSTEM.

THIS IS PLANT LIFE.

THIS IS ALL KINDS OF LIVING FORMS.

>> AND A COLD RESISTANT ELEPHANT COULD BE A PART OF THAT SOLUTION.

THERE A KEYSTONE SPECIES.

BUT, IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT THE ENDANGERED ELEPHANT SPECIES.

>> SAY MORE ABOUT WHERE WE REALLY WILL GET TO WITH CURING ILLNESSES, ESPECIALLY GENETIC ILLNESSES.

HOW CLOSE ARE WE TO IDENTIFYING A GENETIC MUTATION THAT'S CAUSING SERIOUS PHENOTYPIC DISEASE IN A PATIENT AND OUR LOVED ONES, AND GOING IN THERE WITH GENETICALLY ENGINEERED TOOLS AND FIXING THAT?

>> WE ALREADY HAVE EFFECTIVE GENE THERAPIES.

AT LEAST FIVE HAVE BEEN APPROVED BY THE FDA FOR GENERAL USE.

AND MANY ARE LOOKING VERY PROMISING IN CLINICAL TRIALS, INCLUDING SOME CRISPR EDITING FOR SICKLE CELL ANEMIA AND ALSO FOR RETINAL DISEASES.

SO, YOU MIGHT HAVE A HANDFUL OF GENE THERAPIES THAT ARE APPROVED, BUT THERE'S THOUSANDS OF GENETIC DISEASES THAT CAN BE AVOIDED SIMPLY BY PRECONCEPTION GENETIC COUNSELING.

IT'S MUCH LESS EVASIVE THAN EITHER IN VITRO FERTILIZATION OR GENE THERAPY.

MORE LESS RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT HAS TO BE DONE BECAUSE IT'S JUST ONE METHOD, WHICH IS LOOKING AT YOUR GENOME OF POTENTIAL SPOUSES.

>> SO, IF WE LOOK AT KIND OF THE GENETIC ECOSYSTEM.

AT THE ONE SIDE IS COUNSELING.

THAT'S AN EDUCATION THING.

LET'S JUST KEEP PROMOTING THAT, GETTING PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND THAT.

THESE ARE OPTIONS TO LEARN ABOUT IT AND MAKE CHOICES.

AND THEN, AS YOU SAID, THIS IS REALLY EXCITING.

THE FDA HAS APPROVED ALREADY, I THINK YOU SAID FIVE GENE THERAPEUTICS.

ON THAT SIDE OF IT, BECAUSE THERE'S THOUSANDS OF DISEASES, GENETICALLY BASED DISEASES, HOW FAST DO YOU SEE THAT RAMPING UP?

>> IT'S NOT MUCH THAT WE CAN'T FIND THE CURES, THE COST OF GETTING THEM THROUGH CLINICAL TRIALS WILL BE A BURDEN.

ALMOST ALL OF BIOMEDICINE IS GOING EXPONENTIALLY FASTER.

ONCE YOU FIGURE OUT HOW TO DO IT FOR ONE, IT'S VERY QUICK TO DO IT FOR OTHERS.

BUT IN GENERAL, PRIMITIVE MEDICINE IS CHEAPER THAN THESE KINDS OF THERAPIES.

SO, WE NEED TO PRACTICE PREVENTATIVE MEDICINE.

EVEN IF THE COMPANIES CAN'T FIGURE OUT HOW TO MAKE MUCH MONEY ON IT, WE STILL HAVE TO THINK ABOUT IT AT A GOVERNMENTAL AND CITIZEN POINT OF VIEW.

>> ARE THE OTHER APPLICATIONS THAT YOU SEE THIS GREAT TECHNOLOGY THAT THE AVERAGE PERSON DOESN'T HEAR ABOUT OR NOT HEADLINING THE NEWS?

>> IT CAN ALSO BE USED FOR AGRICULTURE, TO MAKE MORE EFFICIENT, TASTIER VEGETABLES THAT TASTE MORE LIKE MEAT SAY.

AND PROVIDE PROTECTION AGAINST VERY SERIOUS DISEASES LIKE VITAMIN A DEFICIENCY IN IMPOVERISHED NATIONS THAT KILL ABOUT A MILLION PEOPLE A YEAR.

I THINK THAT WE SHOULD HAVE THE EQUIVALENT OF WEATHER MAPS.

I CALL THEM BIO WEATHER MAPS SO THAT WE'RE CONSTANTLY MONITORING RESISTANCE TO DRUGS AND VACCINES.

EMERGENCE OF DISEASES FROM ANIMALS, ZOONOTIC DISEASES THAT ARE COMING IN.

WE WANT TO BE MONITORING ALL POTENTIAL PATHOGENS.

AND WE SHOULD BE AT LEAST AS INTERESTED IN THE MORNING BIO WEATHER MAP AS IN THE WEATHER MAP.

THE WEATHER MAP PREVENTS US FROM, YOU KNOW, FALLING DOWN AND BREAKING YOUR HIP.

AND THE BIO WEATHER MAP WILL STOP US FROM GETTING ALLERGENS AND PATHOGENS.

>> LISTEN, DR. CHURCH, IT WAS AN ABSOLUTE PLEASURE TO HAVE YOU ON THE SHOW WITH US TODAY.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.

>> THANK YOU.

WONDERFUL BEING HERE.

>>> SO, TO KIND OF SUMMERIZE WHAT DR. CHURCH WAS TALKING ABOUT, IS THAT CRISPR CAS9 IS REALLY CHANGING THE WAY THAT SCIENTISTS CAN STUDY GENETICS.

BUT, DR. B., THIS IS REALLY COMPLEX.

HE ALSO TALKED ABOUT MOLECULAR BARCODING.

CAN YOU UNPACK THAT JUST A LITTLE BIT MORE?

>> YEAH, MOLECULAR BARCODING IS REALLY COOL.

SO HAVE YOU EVER GONE TO THE GROCERY STORE, AND YOU HAVE SEVEN TO TEN DIFFERENT RED APPLES.

THEY'RE ALL DIFFERENT BUT ON THEM THERE'S A SPECIFIC BARCODE DIFFERENTIATING EACH ONE.

WELL SIMILARLY THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE NOW DOING WITH THIS MOLECULAR BARCODING.

INSTEAD OF PUTTING A BARCODE, ACTUALLY PUTTING A DNA SEQUENCE TAG ON A SPECIFIC AMOUNT OF DNA THAT THEY WANT TO ANALYZE.

AND WHAT THIS DOES IS IT REVOLUTIONIZES HOW FAST WE CAN PROCESS DNA.

FOR EXAMPLE YOU USED TO HAVE TO TAKE A SAMPLE OF DNA ONE AT A TIME AND PROCESS IT.

BUT NOW YOU CAN PUT THESE LITTLE CLONES ON EACH SECTION, AND THROW THEM ALL TOGETHER AND PROCESS THEM AT THE SAME TIME, INFINITELY CHEAPER FROM A COST PERSPECTIVE, AND SUPER FAST.

NOW YOU GOT A LOT MORE INFORMATION IN A SHORT AMOUNT OF TIME AT A SIGNIFICANTLY REDUCED COST.

>> AND SCIENTISTS ARE USING ALL OF THIS DATA TO FURTHER THE FIELD OF MEDICINE AND THAT ACTUALLY LEADS US TO OUR NEXT GUEST.

>> THAT'S RIGHT, DOCTOR MAJA BUCAN, PROFESSOR OF GENETICS AT THE PERELMAN SCHOOL OF MEDICINE AT THE UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA HAS BEEN STUDYING GENETIC DISEASES THAT INVOLVE MORE THAN ONE GENE.

>> TELL US A LITTLE BIT ABOUT YOUR RESEARCH AND THE UNDERLYING GENETIC BASIS OF DEVELOPMENTAL AND PSYCHIATRIC DISORDERS.

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>> I FOUND THAT IT WOULD BE VERY HELPFUL TO WORK IN PARALLEL ON TWO DISORDERS.

VERY EARLY NEURAL DEVELOPMENTAL DISORDER, SUCH AS AUTISM.

THAT'S USUALLY DIAGNOSED IN SECOND OR THIRD YEAR OF LIFE.

AND THEN BIPOLAR ILLNESS, ILLNESS THAT HAS VERY DIFFERENT CHARACTERISTICS AND MUCH MUCH LATER ONSET.

IT'S FAMILY BASED APPROACH, SO WE BASICALLY COLLECT FAMILIES WE PERFORM VERY VERY EXTENSIVE PHENOTYPING AND THEN WE GENERATE WHOLE GENOME SEQUENCE AND BASED ON ANALYSIS, EXTENSIVE ANALYSIS OF WHOLE GENOME SEQUENCE WE'RE TRYING TO SEE IF WE CAN SOMEHOW SUBDIVIDE FAMILIES WITH AUTISM INTO GROUPS THAT CARRY MUTATIONS IN A PARTICULAR GENE.

>> WHAT DID YOU FIND AT THE GENETIC LEVEL THAT DIFFERENTIATES THOSE KINDS OF POPULATIONS OF AUTISM?

>> WE SEE SOMETHING THAT'S, AT THE BEGINNING IT WAS VERY DISCOURAGING.

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THERE IS NO PARTICULAR GENE, SO MANY OF US ARE FAMILIAR WITH HUNTINGTON'S DISEASE OR CYSTIC FIBROSIS, OR MAYBE ANEMIA.

WHERE WE CAN IDENTIFY PARTICULAR GENE THAT'S DISRUPTED.

IN VAST MAJORITY OF CASES WITH AUTISM IT'S NOT ONE GENE THAT DISRUPTED.

THERE ARE MANY MANY MUTATIONS IN DIFFERENT GENES.

>> OKAY.

>> SO ALTHOUGH WE DON'T HAVE ONE PARTICULAR GENE, STILL KNOWING THIS SO CALLED GENETIC ARCHITECTURE, KNOWING THAT MANY DIFFERENT GENES LEAD TO AUTISM IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT.

NOT ONLY THAT, BUT EACH GENE CAN HAVE DIFFERENT KINDS OF MUTATIONS.

WE FIND THAT SOME OF THESE MUTATIONS ARE INHERITED IN PARENTS, BUT IT TURNS OUT IN MANY FAMILIES THESE ARE NEW MUTATIONS THAT AROSE DURING FORMATION OF SPERM IN THE FATHER OR FORMATION OF THE EGG IN THE MOTHER.

MANY OF THESE GENES ARE CRITICAL FOR SO CALLED SYNAPTIC TRANSMISSION, COMMUNICATION BETWEEN NEURONS.

SO WE DO HAVE VERY GOOD INSIGHT INTO PATHWAYS THAT ARE DESTRUCTIVE.

A MAJOR REALLY SURPRISING FINDING FOR ME IS THAT SO MANY OF THESE GENES PLAY VERY IMPORTANT ROLE DURING EMBRYONIC DEVELOPMENT.

SO AS WE KNOW AUTISM IS USUALLY DIAGNOSED IN THE SECOND OR THIRD YEAR OF LIFE.

ON THE OTHER HAND THE ACTION OF THESE GENES IS MUCH MUCH EARLIER, AND THIS IS ALSO VERY IMPORTANT WHEN WE THINK ABOUT POSSIBLE ENVIRONMENTAL FACTORS THAT IT'S NOT AT A TIME WHEN CHILD IS DIAGNOSED BUT MAYBE THERE ARE SOME ENVIRONMENTAL FACTORS DURING EMBRYONIC AND FETAL DEVELOPMENT.

>> SO IT SOUNDS LIKE OVER THE LAST TWENTY YEARS OR SO THE AUTISM FIELD HAS SIGNIFICANTLY GROWN IN TERMS OF OUR UNDERSTANDING OF THE GENETICS, THE GENES INVOLVED, AND THEN HOW THEY'RE EXPRESSED.

WHERE DO YOU SEE KIND OF OUR UNDERSTANDING OF AUTISM AND BIPOLAR DISORDERS FIFTY YEARS FROM NOW?

>> WOW.

50 YEARS FROM NOW.

WOW.

THAT'S A VERY, VERY TOUGH QUESTION.

IN FIVE OR TEN YEARS, A CHILD WILL GET A WHOLE GENOME SEQUENCE.

FOR A CHILD -- THE MINUTE THIS CHILD IS BORN.

THAT IS SOMETHING THAT IS GOING TO BE HAPPENING VERY SOON.

SECOND, AND HERE I MAY BE JUMPING TO 50 YEARS FROM NOW, AND NOT 10 YEARS FROM NOW.

WE KNOW THAT COMPLEX DISORDERS ARE NOT ONLY GENETIC.

ENVIRONMENT PLAYS VERY IMPORTANT ROLE.

SO -- CREDIBILITY OF MANY COMPLEX DISORDERS IS 50-70%.

SO WE'RE BASICALLY RIGHT NOW, IGNORING.

WE, GENETICISTS ARE IGNORING ENVIRONMENTAL FACTORS.

AND IN MY VIEW, WE WILL KNOW MUCH, MUCH MORE ABOUT THESE ENVIRONMENTAL FACTORS.

ACTUALLY, I HAVE HERE -- I FORGOT TO PUT IT ON, MY FITBIT.

YOU CAN IMAGINE THAT MANY OF US ARE GOING TO HAVE MANY DIFFERENT SENSORS.

NOT ONLY HOW MUCH WE WALK, OR HOW MUCH WE SLEEP, BUT ALSO WHAT'S HAPPENING WITH OUR METABOLISM.

SO, IF YOU HAVE WHOLE GENOME SEQUENCE, AND YOU HAVE ALL THESE PHENOTYPES.

MANY, MANY DIFFERENT PHENOTYPES.

BY PUTTING BACK TOGETHER, WE WILL BE IN A MUCH BETTER POSITION TO MAKE PREDICTIONS.

AND BASED ON PREDICTIONS, GO WITH INTERVENTIONS, WE KNOW FOR INSTANCE IN AUTISM, DIAGNOSING A DISEASE EARLY, MEANS EARLY INTERVENTION.

AND WITH DIFFERENT BEHAVIORAL THERAPIES, A CHILD CAN REALLY SIGNIFICANTLY IMPROVE.

SO, MY ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION -- ENVIRONMENTAL INFLUENCES AND THIS GENOTYPE-PHENOTYPE ASSOCIATION THAT WILL ALLOW US TO MAKE PREDICTIONS.

>>> SO, LET ME GET THIS RIGHT.

IN THE FUTURE, MY FITBIT MAY NOT ONLY BE ABLE TO TRACK MY BLOOD PRESSURE AND MY HEART RATE, BUT IT MAY ALSO STORE MY GENOME SEQUENCE?

WHAT ARE THE POSSIBILITIES CAN EVEN KNOW THEIR GENOME SEQUENCE?

>> THERE ARE SO MANY POSSIBILITIES.

AND ONE VERY EFFECTIVE, LOW COST WAY IS THROUGH GENETIC COUNSELING.

WHEN WE COUPLE THAT WITH CUTTING-EDGE TECHNOLOGY, WE CAN SIGNIFICANTLY REDUCE THE AMOUNT OF TIME AND COLLECT MUCH MORE INFORMATION TO LEAD TO BETTER DIAGNOSIS AND ULTIMATELY PREVENT DISEASE.

>> AND THAT HAS A LOT OF IMPLICATIONS FOR FAMILY PLANNING.

AND ACTUALLY, OUR NEXT GUEST IS GONNA TALK A LITTLE MORE ABOUT THAT.

SHE IS AN EXPERT IN BIOETHICS.

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

I TALKED WITH DR. ALTA CHARO, EMERITA PROFESSOR OF LAW AND BIOETHICS AT THE UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN-MADISON LAW SCHOOL, ABOUT THE ETHICS OF GENETIC ENGINEERING.

>>> SO, GENETIC ENGINEERING HAS BEEN WITH US FOR DECADES, BUT NOW WE'RE HEARING THE CATCHPHRASE "GENE EDITING."

IN YOUR OPINION, WHAT ARE THE IMPORTANT ETHICAL ISSUES AROUND GENE EDITING?

>> WELL, LET'S FIRST DIVIDE IT UP INTO CATEGORIES.

BECAUSE GENE EDITING OR GENOME EDITING IS SOMETHING THAT CAN BE USED EITHER TO, FOR EXAMPLE, CHANGE PLANTS AND ANIMALS IN THE WORLD OF AGRICULTURE.

IT CAN BE USED TO TREAT AN ILLNESS THAT YOU OR I HAVE.

IT COULD BE USED TO EDIT AN EMBRYO, IN WHICH CASE YOU'RE ACTUALLY GONNA AFFECT A FUTURE CHILD.

SO, EACH ONE OF THEM HAS A SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT SET OF CONCERNS, RIGHT?

THE PUBLIC'S FASCINATION HAS BEEN AROUND A DESIGNER BABY.

AND THAT'S GONNA BE THE LEAST LIKELY, OR AT LEAST LEAST FREQUENT USE OF THIS TECHNOLOGY.

FOR THE FORESEEABLE FUTURE.

IT'S BIGGEST USE IS GONNA BE IN AGRICULTURE.

IT'S GONNA BE ABOUT CHANGING ANIMALS OR PLANTS SO THAT THEY CAN BETTER SURVIVE IN A CHANGED CLIMATE.

OR WHERE THEY EMIT FURTHER THINGS THAT ARE PROBLEMATIC ENVIRONMENTALLY.

WE'VE ALREADY USED OTHER FORMS OF GENETIC ENGINEERING TO CREATE A PIG THAT RELEASES LESS PHOSPHOROUS IT ITS WASTE, WHICH WOULD IMPROVE RUN-OFF TO OUR LAKES.

THERE'S A SALMON THAT WAS CHANGED SO THAT IT COULD BE GROWN FASTER AND IN AN ENCLOSED TANK SO YOU DON'T HAVE TO SHIP IT ACROSS THE COUNTRY AND USE ALL THOSE TRANSPORTATION RESOURCES.

FOR ADULTS LIKE US, THIS TECHNOLOGY HAS ENORMOUS POTENTIAL.

WE'VE ALREADY SEEN IT NOW TREAT SICKLE CELL DISEASE.

AND THIS IS A TERRIBLE DISEASE BECAUSE IT CREATES INCREDIBLE PAIN.

AND IN PAST YEARS, HAS LED TO EARLY DEATH.

AND BECAUSE IT'S MOSTLY IN THE AFRICAN-AMERICAN COMMUNITY, IT'S ALSO HITTING PEOPLE THAT ARE DISPROPORTIONALLY ALREADY DISADVANTAGED IN THE HEALTHCARE SYSTEM.

WE KNOW HAVE THE ABILITY TO CORRECT THE PROBLEM AND THE PERSON WITH SICKLE CELL DISEASE NO LONGER SUFFERS FROM THESE THINGS.

BUT, THERE'S A HUGE DILEMMA HERE.

IT IS INCREDIBLY EXPENSIVE.

AND IT TAKES SOPHISTICATED FACILITIES AND TREMENDOUS AMOUNTS OF MONEY.

AND THAT LEADS TO SEVERAL THINGS.

IT'S VERY HARD TO GET INSURANCE TO WANT TO STEP UP AND PAY FOR THESE INCREDIBLY EXPENSIVE THERAPIES.

THE SECOND PROBLEM IS IN WEST AFRICA, THE SITUATION IS EVEN MORE DIRE.

AND IT'S ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO IMAGINE IN MANY OF THOSE COUNTRIES BEING ABLE TO MOUNT THIS KIND OF TECHNOLOGICAL AND ECONOMIC FEAT.

SO, ONE OF THE ETHICS ISSUES IS SHOULD WE GO AHEAD AND CONTINUE TO DEVELOP THERAPIES THAT ARE GOING TO BE OUT OF REACH FOR MOST PEOPLE?

AND IF WE ARE, HOW MUCH SHOULD WE BE DEVOTING OURSELVES TO FINDING A WAY TO MAKE THEM ACCESSIBLE TO EVERYBODY TO SPITE THAT.

>> FARMERS HAVE ESSENTIALLY BEEN CROSSBREEDING AND THAT IS ACTUALLY GENETIC ENGINEERING.

>> YES.

>> AND WE'VE BEEN DOING THAT FOR MILLENNIA.

AND PEOPLE ARE COMFORTABLE WITH THAT.

AND SO, YOU TALKED ABOUT SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY, AND THE TOOLS TODAY ALLOW US TO DO THAT AT A MORE EFFICIENT RATE.

AND SO, IF THERE-IS THERE A DOUBLE STANDARD THAT OUR KIND OF ANTIQUATED FARMING TECHNIQUES GOING BACK THOUSANDS AND TENS OF THOUSANDS OF YEARS, THOSE ARE OKAY.

BUT, NOW INSTEAD OF USING A SHOVEL AND PUTTING YOUR HANDS IN THE DIRT, YOU'RE USING THESE GENETIC TOOLS IN THE LAB, THAT'S SOMEHOW BAD?

>> YES.

ABSOLUTELY.

PART OF IT IS FAMILIARITY.

I DO A BIOTECH BRUNCH FOR MY STUDENTS EVERY YEAR WHERE I HAVE THEM COME TO MY HOME AND HAVE A BRUNCH MADE OF BIOTECHNOLOGY AFFECTED KINDS OF FOODS.

AND I SERVE THEM THINGS LIKE CHEESES AND YOGURTS BECAUSE FERMENTATION IS A FORM OF BIOTECHNOLOGY.

AS WELL AS TRYING TO FIND SOME GENETICALLY EDIBLE -- WELL, ACTUALLY MOST OF THE CORN WE HAVE IS GENETICALLY ENGINEERED AND SO I SERVE THEM SOMETHING THAT HAS CORN IN IT.

SO, YEAH SOME OF IT IS A DOUBLE-STANDARD JUST BASED ON FAMILIARITY AND NOT RECOGNIZING HOW MUCH OF THIS HAS ALREADY HAPPENED.

PART OF IT I THINK THOUGH IS EFFICIENCY.

SOMETIMES WE USE TECHNOLOGY IN A FASHION THAT MAKES IS POSSIBLE FOR US TO DO THINGS SO MUCH MORE EASILY THAT MANY MORE PEOPLE AND NOW, WHAT USED TO BE A PERSONAL QUESTION BECAUSE A SOCIETAL QUESTION.

AND THAT'S BECAUSE OF THE EFFICIENCIES.

AND I THINK'S PART OF WHAT HAPPENS WITH GENETIC ENGINEERING.

AS WE GET BETTER AT IT AND IT GETS EASIER -- AND GENOME EDITING HAS CERTAINLY BEEN A LEAP FORWARD IN OUR CAPACITY AND THE EASE.

WE SUDDENLY BEGIN TO WORRY MUCH, MUCH MORE ABOUT HOW MANY OTHER THINGS WE MIGHT WANT TO CHANGE AND ARE WE REALLY COMFORTABLE WITH CHANGING THAT MANY THINGS?

AND SUDDENLY THAT QUESTION BECOMES MUCH BIGGER FOR US.

AND PART OF A LARGER SET OF CONCERNS ABOUT HUMAN CONTROL OVER OURSELVES AND THE ENVIRONMENT.

AND NOT JUST A QUESTION OF A SINGLE LAB OR A SINGLE PRODUCT.

>> TALK TO US A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT WHAT ARE THE ISSUES AROUND DESIGNER BABIES.

SHOULD I HAVE THE RIGHT TO CHOOSE WHAT MY BABY CAN AND SHOULD LOOK LIKE, HOW TALL SHE OR HE COULD BE, HOW SMART IF WE COULD FIGURE OUT WHAT GENE CODES FOR THAT?

>> YOU SAID DO I HAVE THE RIGHT TO CONTROL HOW MY CHILD LOOKS OR ANY OTHER TRAIT.

AND I'M GONNA TELL YOU THAT YOU ALREADY HAVE THE RIGHT AND YOU ALREADY USE IT.

WHEN YOU PICK A PARTNER WITH WHOM TO HAVE A CHILD, YOU ARE ALSO PICKING SOMETHING ABOUT WHAT THAT CHILD IS GONNA BE.

WHEN YOU USE A SPERM BANK AND YOU PICK A DONOR, YOU'RE ALREADY MAKING SOME DECISIONS ABOUT THAT CHILD.

IT'S PROBABILISTIC.

BUT, WHAT IF YOU COULD REALLY BE ABSOLUTELY SURE WHAT YOU'RE GONNA GET, DOES THAT MEAN EVERYBODY RUSHES FORWARD AND SAYS LET ME DO IT.

NOW THAT I KNOW THERE'S NO RISK.

THAT'S THE FEAR.

THE REALITY IS THAT THEY'LL NEVER BE NO RISK.

FIRST, EDITING IS NOT 100% PERFECT.

AND THERE CAN BE UNINTENDED EFFECTS ON OTHER PARTS OF THE GENOME.

SECOND, WHEN YOU EDIT AN EMBRYO, WHICH ALREADY HAS MULTIPLE CELLS, YOU MAY SUCCEED IN SOME OF THE CELLS, BUT NOT ALL OF THEM.

AND FINALLY, EDITING ONE THING DOESN'T TELL YOU HOW IT'S GOING TO MANIFEST IN A LIVE BORN CHILD BECAUSE IT'S AGAINST A BACKDROP OF A WHOLE OTHER SET OF GENETIC TRAITS AND SO CALLED EPIGENETIC TRAITS.

THE THINGS THAT EFFECT HOW THE GENES OPERATE.

SO, GENOME EDITING IS NOWHERE CLOSE TO MAKING IT POSSIBLE TO TRULY DESIGN A BABY.

SO, THE PHRASE ITSELF GIVES PEOPLE THE IMPRESSION OF A POWER WE DON'T HAVE AND WE ARE NOWHERE NEAR HAVING.

THE QUESTION FOR THE MOMENT HAS NOT BEEN ABOUT WHETHER IT SHOULD BE FORBIDDEN TO USE THE TECHNOLOGY TO CHOOSE A CHILD WITH THE TRAITS THAT YOU LIKE.

YOU KNOW, THE HEIGHT, THE COMPLEXION.

IT'S REALLY ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT IT SHOULD BE USED WHEN YOU KNOW THERE'S A GENETIC TRAIT THAT IS HIGHLY PENETRATE.

IT WILL EXPRESS ITSELF AGAINST ALMOST ANY OTHER GENETIC BACKGROUND.

AND IT IS TRULY DEVASTATING.

RESULTS IN INCREDIBLE PAIN AND A VERY SHORT LIFE.

THERE ARE SOME GENES LIKE THAT.

THEY TEND TO BE RELATIVELY RARE.

BUT, THERE ARE THOUSANDS OF THEM.

BUT, IF YOU'VE GOT PARENTS WHO KNOW THEY'RE AT RISK OF PASSING THIS ON.

OR THEY KNOW THAT AN EMBRYO HAS THE TRAIT, AND THEY STILL WANT TO BRING THAT EMBRYO TO TERM, OR THEY STILL WANT TO HAVE CHILDREN FOR THEMSELVES THAT ARE GENETICALLY RELATED, THIS PROVIDES AN OPTION TO DELETE THAT DEVASTATING TRAIT.

I THINK OF TECHNOLOGY AS A FORCE OF GOOD.

IT NEEDS TO BE CONTROLLED.

BUT, SCIENCE IS AN AVENUE TO IMPROVING OUR LIVES, AND IMPROVING YOUR NEIGHBORS LIVES, AND THE IMPROVING THE HEALTH OF THE PLANET.

I CAN'T GET PAST THAT OPTIMISM.

>>> TIME FOR TAKEAWAYS.

SO, MY TAKEAWAY IS THAT THIS WHOLE IDEA OF GENE EDITING AND WHAT IT CAN DO IS REALLY EXCITING.

AND I CANNOT WAIT TO SEE THE BREAKTHROUGHS WE MAKE IN MEDICINE AND ALSO IN OTHER AREAS.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

I MEAN, THINK ABOUT BOOKS, AND LIBRARIES, AND THEN WHAT GOOGLE AS A SEARCH ENGINE HAS DONE FOR US TO ACCESS INFORMATION.

SIMILARLY, CRISPR CAS PHASE NINE AND NEXT GENERATION GENE SEQUENCING IS A SIMILAR TOOL TO EXPAND OUR CAPACITY TO REALLY IMPACT HEALTHCARE IN BETTER WAYS.

AND THAT'S QUITE EASILY DEMONSTRATED.

"QED WITH DR.

B."

JOIN US ON FACEBOOK, INSTAGRAM AND TWITTER.

AND WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT TIME.

!

!musiC@!!!musiC@!

!

!musiC@!!!musiC@!

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