Hello, everyone.

Welcome.

So nice to see you all here.

Thank you for coming out.

I'm Angela Evancie.

I'm the interim senior vice president of content here at Vermont Public.

And I am thrilled to be here with you tonight to welcome Ayesha Rascoe, the host of NPR's Weekend Edition Sunday and the Saturday host of the podcast, Up First.

So to work in journalism is to be continually reminded that we cannot predict the future and we can never know when a story will develop that will deeply and inexorably affect the communities that we cover and that we serve.

And I feel like that's never been more true than the past couple of years, the past couple of months, even the past couple of weeks.

And as listeners, because we are all listeners, I think it's times like these when we come to most rely on and really cherish the journalists and the hosts that we trust the most.

For their steadiness and their thoughtfulness, the way they can bring humanity to difficult stories and humor when the time is right.

And I think both of the people who are taking the stage tonight really exemplify those qualities.

So prior to her role as host at NPR, Ayesha Rascoe was a White House correspondent and covered three presidential administrations before joining NPR in 2018 she spent the first decade of her career at Reuters covering some of the biggest energy and environmental stories of the past decade, including the 2010 BP oil spill and the U.S. response to the Fukushima nuclear crisis in 2011.

She's a graduate of Howard University with a B.A.

in journalism.

And in a career highlight she made an appearance on Vermont Publics podcast for curious kids ‘But Why?.

It was November 2020 and the young listeners question was, “Why are we still talking about the presidential election?

” Tonight's conversation will be hosted by Mikaela Lefrak.

Mikaela is the host and senior producer, of course, of our show here at Vermont Public - Vermont Edition.

Her stories have aired nationally on Morning Edition, All Things Considered, Weekend Edition, Marketplace, The World and Here and Now.

Mikaela is a seasoned local reporter also, and she didn't want me to say this part, but I want you to know that she has won two regional Edward R. Murrow awards and a Public Media Journalists Association Award for her work.

She's a graduate a graduate of Middlebury and earned her masters in broadcast journalism from B.U.. And I know we're all looking forward to hearing both of you in conversation.

And if you have questions for Ayesha, you'll be able to ask those later in the evening.

But for now, please join me in welcoming Ayesha and Mikaela.

All right.

We got a crowd.

I know you guys.

This is impressive.

Like on a Wednesday night, you could be anywhere in the world, but you're here with me, and I'm so grateful.

Well, Ayesha, I feel so lucky to be in conversation with you tonight.

I have been listening to you and learning from you for years, and we have a lot of your professional accomplishments to go through tonight.

But I would like to start with young Ayesha.

So picture with me, Ayesha Rascoe in Durham, North Carolina, a teen.

Yes.

You were the editor of your high school newspaper in Durham.

And I think journalism actually involves a lot of things that teens would hate.

You gotta call people.

Call, people.

On the phone.

Yeah, there's constant writing assignments.

What what appealed to you about journalism as a young woman?

Well, I mean, I should point out that I was a total nerd.

I didn't have a social life.

So the newspaper was my social life.

Okay.

So it wasn't it wasn't keeping me from doing fun things, cause I just was I yeah.

I didn't have I was not a cool teen.

And so I was the type of teen that, you know, did really enjoy writing.

And I enjoyed history and being able to ask questions and I enjoy like English.

I was very good at school.

That's what I was good at as I didn't have much of a social life, but I was very good at school.

I got all A's.

I was that sort of person, got all the awards.

So that was my thing that I enjoy because I was a nerd.

But I really you know, I think the thing that I loved about journalism even then was like, you know, it gave me a chance to learn about other people in the school to write about important issues.

Like our school wasn't a very like it was not a top high school.

And actually, like the state came in and like they had to do like an intervention because our test scores were so low.

And so I actually remembered interviewing, doing a story on that and interviewing like some of the state team that came in to like help and monitor us.

And I got a letter from like when I was a teen, one of the, the people that I interviewed actually sent me a letter and said, you know, thank you so much for being such, you know, such a good journalist, like a lot of people could learn from me.

I was a teenager.

I still remember this.

And it was so nice.

I could have had like boyfriends and stuff.

But no, I got a nice letter to the state.

I had a nice letter from a state administrator that's what I got.

That's love.

Well, you went on to college at Howard University in Washington, D.C.. Yeah.

Shout out to Howard.

And you while you were there, you worked at the student newspaper, The Hilltop.

And for folks who don't know, this is the oldest black collegiate newspaper in the country.

Founded by Zora Neale Hurston.

Yes, yes.

Yes.

Mm hmm.

Yeah.

So very prestigious paper.

You were a writer there.

You went on to be the campus editor and then the editor in chief.

Yes.

And as the editor of the campus section, the real meat and potatoes of the paper, you were interviewing administrators at the school you were going to.

What was that like?

You know, it was at that time.

It was very nerve wracking because Howard was a school.

I love the school and it has this legacy.

But as a journalist, as you know, you have to press and ask hard questions.

And we're not PR people, right?

Like, we're not there to just write puff pieces.

So there were times where I had to do stories and administrators didn't like the stories that we did.

And there was a lot of conflict and pushback.

And, you know, and especially as a college student who is still you're still getting your voice, we didn't always make the right decisions, I will say that.

But like you are, you're learning.

But you also have a lot of insecurities and then you're being pressed by people who are much older and more experienced than you.

And you're trying to figure out, how do I stand my ground?

Like, how do I stand firm in what I believe?

And that's really what I had to do and learn so much.

When I was at Howard and at the Hilltop was to learn how to stand firm in what I did believe in and to stand firm in.

I'm going to report the truth.

I'm a journalist.

I have certain ethics.

I'm going to stand by those, even if I'm getting pushback.

And also, you know, being able to say that, you know, no matter no matter what happens, I am able to say I did this work.

I'm proud of it.

Like I can stand for what I did because that's what you have to do as a journalist.

You have to be able to say, when I go to bed at night, I am okay with the decisions that I've made.

And that's what I had to learn.

You know, when I was at college, in college.

I can imagine that interviewing college administrators would also be very good training for being in a White House press briefing.

Yes, because you get I mean, you get a lot of you know, and going to a historically black college like Howard, there is a legacy to uphold.

And some of it would be like, why do you want to tear us down?

You know, the struggles that we have.

Why do you want to paint us in a bad light?

But something that I did come to realize is that, you know, a legacy is not something to coast on, its something to live up to.

And so it doesn't - and if you love something, you will critique it because you want it to be the best that it can be.

And love is not just, you know, accepting whatever.

Its pushing, even institutions that you love to be the best that they can be.

Mm hmm.

You have a new book coming out.

I do see your copy over there.

Look, I'm not trying to do a commercial, but.

If you want to do a - preorders are very important and they have to.

I didn't realize they got these little things.

You get 20% off, 20% off!

Preorders are very important.

And so, yes, I got this book coming out, HBCU Made, it's all about and it has a lot of people in it.

But yes, it's a collection of essays about the importance of historically black colleges and universities.

And when you say like people.

Oprah, Oprah Winfrey is in the book.

Yes.

Stacey Abrams is in the book.

Branford Marsalis, Roy Wood Junior.

Lots of lots of people are in the book and it feels great.

And so HBCU Made, a celebration of the black college experience.

It's this book of personal essays by people who went to HBCUs, yourself included.

You wrote the introduction and edited this book, and in it I want to read one quote from it that I really loved.

In your introduction, you write at Howard, I didn't have to worry about trying to break into spaces that black people had been shut out of.

That was a relief.

It allowed me to focus on what those unburdened by racism generally focus on in college, figuring out who the heck I was.

That must have felt so freeing.

I wonder if you could tell us more about what it felt like to be on campus there?

Yeah.

You know what?

I when I went to Howard, like, first of all, I'm from Durham, North Carolina.

So D.C. was the big city and I was really afraid, like my you know, my, my, my family.

They were like, we don't know.

Ayeshas really quiet.

Is she going to be able to make it in the mean streets of D.C.?

But I was determined to do it.

I just felt like Howard was home to me, like there was just something about it.

And when I got there, I think that it was different for me, like because in high school and stuff like that, there were times when I was going to school in a smaller town than Durham and Oxford, and I was like the first black girl to be number one in her class.

And I would have, you know, parents and like all these adults, like stopping me and saying, we're rooting for you because it meant so much in this town that was like 50/50 black and white.

But where black people were still dealing with the vestiges of Jim Crow, I mean, in 2000, they had segregated homecoming courts.

In 2000, this was a town that was very much still feeling what happened with segregation and all these things.

And you as a teenager are bearing the weight of that.

These things that had that happened way before I was born and that I didn't, you know, that I didn't cause but I have to carry it.

And then you feel that weight.

And then you get to Howard and you see that there are all sorts of black people who are excelling and doing amazing work and they're all individuals.

And this idea of being compared to the white people, why are you here?

Are you here just because you're black or anything like that that's not there.

It's just you're here to do the work and can you do the work.

And it's an incredible feeling.

And I think like that freedom that I saw over and over from other people in the book is like there's a freedom to just be and to figure out how you're going to, you know, how are you going to live your life.

So you said something that just stuck out to me.

This idea that people might look at you and say are you here just because you're black?

And that makes me think of the recent Supreme Court decision to gut affirmative action and essentially eliminate race as a factor in college admissions.

And some are predicting that that that decision could lead to an influx of applications into HBCU's.

And I wonder from your vantage point, having graduated from one, how did the news of that decision hit for you?

Well, you know, I mean.

Affirmative action, like the thing of it is, is like even, you know, people in this book, a lot of the people in this book, even though they may have went to an HBCU, a lot of them went to graduate schools that were at predominantly white institutions.

And they talk about the difference, like some of the people in the book talk about going to a predominantly white institution and being accused of plagiarism and being accused of all these things because they felt like you, someone who looks like you couldn't do this sort of work.

And so I think that but but there is also the fact that HBCUs cannot educate every black person in this country like they just do not have the resources or the space to do so.

And so you have to have places in predominantly white institutions.

And, you know, in HBCUs where black people and people of color can feel seen, they can feel heard, they can feel respected, and they need to be also be given a shot.

And that's you can look at affirmative action for some of these places as a way that people were given a shot, they were giving given a shot to be able to show what they can do and what they're able to do.

I mean, you look at someone like me, I like when I went to Howard University, I was I did go on a full ride.

I had, you know, like I said, I was a nerd.

I did really well.

I got an academic scholarship.

But there were so like I ended up at Reuters not because I had like the greatest internships like everyone else at Reuters at the time when I interned and this was my first job was at Reuters.

They were all from Harvard or Columbia or some type of Ivy League.

They had all interned at every major publication, whether it was Bloomberg, The New York Times, The Washington Post.

I had not been able to do that right, like I had interned at the Winston-Salem Journal, and that was it.

But I was in a class a Reuters had a business reporting class, a partnership with Howard.

And in that class, the teacher who was a reporter and trainer at Reuters saw my work and said, you do good work.

I see your work.

You should be able to go to Reuters like you should be able to work at Reuters.

And he gave me the recommendation and that really got me the internship at Reuters that opened the door to my entire career.

But if you had just looked on paper, I was not someone who would have gotten chosen for that internship.

And I think in so many ways, sometimes when you look on paper, you can say, does this person deserve it?

But I was able to do the work.

Clearly I made it.

But so it's like sometimes you have to give people a shot and sometimes you have to give people a chance to show who they can be.

And I mean, that's not really an answer to a policy question, but I think that's an answer to the type of society we want to be, because you got to give people a shot.

But HBCU are amazing places and amazing institutions and need support to be able to educate the students that do come through their doors.

Hmm.

Well, I really loved reading the book and I lived very close to Howard for years.

And it is a it's such a vibrant campus.

It's such a fun place to even be near.

It's a really wonderful place to go to college.

Oh, thank you.

Now, it was a lot it's a lot of fun.

I had great years at Howard and like they got a great band and it's just great parties and great, great life.

Yeah, well.

As you were alluding to, you certainly did make it in the world of journalism.

So let's talk for a moment here about your time as a White House correspondent for NPR.

You covered three presidential administrations in that role.

And when Donald Trump became president, as we all know, a lot of the old traditions of how the White House interacted with the press were thrown out the window.

What do you remember from that time?

Wow.

I mean, that's a big question, because it was it was, you know, going from the I covered the last year of the Obama administration and I covered all of the Trump administration and the first year of the Biden administration.

So going from the Obama administration to the Trump administration, you know, was you know, it was like going from, you know, you going on a fast train to going on like a rollercoaster that maybe hasn't, you know, passed all its inspections.

And so it was like a it was a lot like.

You know, just from the beginning, like and there were there were so many questions about whether Trump was even going to allow the press to stay in the White House, whether he was going to move us out of the briefing area.

There's a in their press offices in the West Wing, whether they whether he was going to get rid of that, you know, it starts off with Sean Spicer doing that impromptu press briefing saying it was, you know, he had the biggest inauguration ever.

And, like, it just it just went from there.

Like it was just, you know, it just didn't you know, every day there was something new.

There was something different.

You know, I have the Twitter alerts on my phone for Trump.

And, you know, there were times where it might be two in the morning and he would send like 60 tweets and my phone would just be vibrating and vibrating and vibrating.

I'm like, what's going on?

And he's tweeting about like firemen, unions and all this stuff.

I mean, just like all these retweets and stuff.

So it was I think it's still hard for to grasp all of the things that were happening because it was a lot.

Yeah.

Did you have to change the way you did your job?

Yeah.

I mean, I think everybody in media had to adjust because it was a very different time.

I mean, and I think in some ways it was ways that you that needed to be done.

So, you know, in the past, if a president said he had made a deal with some, you know, auto plant, you could say the president says this and you could, you know, believe that that actually was the case or like some semblance of it.

But like, you know, when Trump was president, you really couldn't just repeat what he said because you didn't know whether it actually had happened.

Right.

You'd had to say, you know, he you know, the president says this but doesn't provide evidence.

And, I mean, I think there are a lot of cases for any president, you know, Trump and otherwise where you have to say that or lawmakers say they said this, but they said it without evidence.

And so you had to I mean, it was just a change in the dynamic and really in the framework of the way that you approach these sorts of stories.

Yeah.

Well, it was so wonderful to hear your voice reporting on these different administrations, providing that continuity throughout all of that change.

And you in particular, there's this one moment that stood out for me that was from February I think of last year when you got in this back and forth with President Biden's press secretary at the time, Jen Psaki.

And it was over a raid that had occurred that had resulted in the death of an ISIS leader and you were really pushing her for more information than what she was willing to give at the time.

And being part of a briefing like that, I can imagine, involves a mix of, you know, preparedness and spontaneity.

And I wonder if you could take us back, maybe tell us a little bit more about that moment and why you decided to to press then.

Yeah.

So this was an ISIS who this was the one of the leaders of ISIS at that time had been, you know, killed in a raid by the U.S..

This is during the Biden administration.

And really like this is an example.

We were on Air Force One.

I think people would ask a lot of questions at that point about the raid and how how, how things went down.

And really, my question was just simple and it was just like, well, you know, are you going to provide any evidence to back up what you're saying happened in this raid?

Because I know based on NPR reporting and reporting, you know, from lots of other outlets, that there have been times when the U.S. has said something has happened on a raid and the what they say and what actually happened, don't always line up.

You can call it the fog of war or you can call it any number of things.

But there are times when the official story is questioned.

And in this case, there were people that had died.

I think his family had died.

And they said that that had nothing to do with the U.S., that he blew himself up.

This this happens.

But it was just like, are you going to provide any evidence of this?

And I really didn't expect that to be a tough question.

I thought it was just like, yeah, we will or whatever we can provide, that's not classified.

We will.

But instead, you know, she got very defensive and was just like, Are you going to believe us or ISIS?

And I, you know, was like, well, look, you know, it's the fact that the U.S. has not always been forthright about these issues.

And that is a fact Daniel Estrin at NPR did a years long investigation that, you know, discovered that, you know, the killing of another ISIS leader, that there had been civilians who were killed, one of them who lost his arm and, you know, has is now severely disabled and, you know, didn't seem to have anything to do with what was going on with the just seemed to be going on a road near where this raid was happening.

And they just you know, the U.S. killed them, killed them and severely injured someone and didn't and was not and said they were combatants, but provided no evidence that they were combatants.

And now, based on NPR's reporting, there is reason to believe that they these were not combatants.

These were people who were just, you know, who were just killed and injured.

And so based on that, I'm like, no, you should you should provide evidence.

And I think in general, like, if you have evidence to back up what you're saying, it only makes everything stronger for the U.S., for the for our allies, for whoever we work with, for the public to know that they can trust what the government is telling them.

Like it's not asking too much.

It's just asking you to, you know, to provide evidence so people can trust you.

Well, hearing you talk about this story and the the humans at the center, the human toll of war brings brings me back to this moment that we're living through right now and the the enormous human tragedy that is going on in Israel and Palestine.

And I don't want to get into the politics of that situation, but I do very much want to hear what it has been like for you and your team to be reporting on this day in and day out.

I mean, just just reading the news is incredibly heart wrenching right now.

What is it like to be to be part of it in a way?

And I think that, you know, and I have to say, like for NPR, I think we have a bunch of reporters who are really doing the absolute best that they can do to report on this issue, which is extremely difficult.

And so I would say that, like what I have done as a host hasn't you know, you can't really compare it to, like, you know, Leila Fadel and and others who are on the ground and really Daniel Estrin, who are on the ground and talking to people and really like putting themselves in harm's way and really trying to get these stories of what's happening from Israelis, from Palestinians.

I think that with any of these moments, what I try to do is just to be an authentic witness to what is happening.

And what I always my mindset, my prayer is that I will honor everyone who I am speaking about and give them the dignity and the the dignity and honor that they deserve, like with my reporting.

And so I want to talk about people like I will talk about my loved ones.

I would want my loved ones to be spoken about if I lost them tragically.

And so that's what I try to bring to every single one of these situations is like, if this was my loved one, how would I want them to be spoken about?

And that's what I tried to do.

But it is a weight when you're covering things like this, when you're covering shootings, it is a weight.

It is heavy.

And it's like there's no way to compare to what people are actually going through.

So all that I can do, you know, and to sit here and complain or to say was really hard.

It's like, well, I'm reading the news, but I'm not living it.

But I do think it's like what I can do is just try to honor, to honor the weight of it, to carry the weight of it, and to just try to convey it in the best way that I can.

And that's what I try to do.

Yeah.

I saw you tweet a week ago about what was coming up on on the show, the coming Sunday.

There were a lot of stories coming out of Gaza at the time.

And, you know, Twitter or X or whatever it is right now is usually a cesspool of hate.

But I saw this one response to your tweet as I was, you know, combing through, see what you all were working on.

And it was somebody I want to read it.

It was a guy who said, I hope you guys have counseling at work.

I would imagine that learning all of this and talking about it every day could be harmful to your mental health.

Thinking of you, I thought that was so sweet.

Yeah.

For one.

And just the evidence of the the community that public radio creates.

But I do wonder, like, how have you and your team, I don't know, I imagine it brings you very close together when you're reporting on things like this.

I mean, it it does and NPR does offer resources for journalists if we need to talk to someone so we do have those resources.

I think that that tweet speaks to the kindness of NPR listeners who and the way that they, you know, really care for and feel connected to us.

So I always appreciate that.

I think as a team, what I have always tried to tell everyone who I work with is like, just because we're reporters doesn't mean we're robots.

Like, and we are humans and we have feelings.

And sometimes you may feel like crying and if you need to cry, then cry.

And if you need to feel something, then feel something.

I don't feel like as reporters, we have to put ourselves on a shelf and put our humanity on a shelf.

We are human beings.

I don't try to tell anyone what to think or how to live, but I if something is sad, let it be sad.

I am not a robot.

I will feel it.

And then also take time to protect yourself, to protect your well-being.

Because if it is hard and there are days when it's hard, then get help.

Go to, you know, talk to somebody.

If you need to do that, do that because it is a weight that we carry.

Like when you're constantly dealing in things that are so negative and so dark and so don't try to act like you are so strong and you can just take everything.

No, you are a human being and you are dealing with some very dark stuff and so take care of yourself.

So that's what I tell, you know, I've cried sometimes when I'm talking about stories.

I definitely have broken down.

Do not lose your humanity.

I feel like our humanity is what makes our reporting that much better.

I think that's what makes it impactful.

Do not lose who you are to talk about things like it doesn't matter.

All of this stuff matters and so bring your whole self with it.

And that includes your emotions and your pain and your sadness.

And so that's what I always say, but always take care of yourself, take care of your mental health.

Amen.

Its like Ayesha Rascoe therapy.

No, you gotta do it.

You gotta do it.

Ayesha, as radio journalists in many ways our voices are our currency.

It's one of the the magical things about public radio.

Part of the goal is to speak into the microphone in a way that makes a listener feel like you were talking just to them.

You were at their kitchen table.

You are their trusted friend, and I think you were just excellent at this.

I listen to you and I trust you, and I also like you.

And want to go to brunch.

So if you ever want to do that, let me know.

But you've also received a lot of feedback on your voice.

And I am curious what it feels like to have your voice a thing that is in many ways innate to you.

Yes.

Be a part of the conversation at all.

When people talk about your work, how does that feel?

It's very weird.

It's very strange.

But it's you know, until I got into public radio, like I said before this, before I wasn't in broadcast, I was in print.

And so I was you know, I consider myself to be a writer.

And so I never dealt with in the first two years of my career, no one ever talked about how I talked.

And so when I got to NPR, I didn't think that my voice would be anything different from anybody else.

I didn't think it would stand out.

I thought it was just so when people started reacting to it, I was like, what do you mean?

Like, you know, and I am from the South.

I'm a black woman from the South, you can tell that.

But I my mother had told me that I had lost my Southern accent.

So I was like, I don't even have a Southern accent anymore.

That's what my momma told me.

And so I didn't think that it would be this thing.

But, you know, this is I always say this.

I've gotten more positive feedback than negative.

So and I think that's a credit to the NPR audience.

And so I should say that and I always say that and you know, I mean, but people it does get people worked up.

John McWhorter did a whole podcast on my voice just the other week.

I mean, 30 minutes with clips of my voice dissecting my dialect.

And that is strange to me.

That is it's you know, I appreciated his thoughtfulness, but it is weird because it is just me.

Like, it's not like I came into the situation saying, I'm going to shake things up.

I'm going to sound a certain way.

I just came in and I just talked like myself and I didn't.

And it's not something that I did intentionally.

And so I but I appreciate and I recognize that a lot of people do not expect do not expect authority to sound like me.

They don't expect to hear my voice reporting on Gaza.

They don't expect to hear my voice reporting on the president or what have you.

And so if my voice expands what people think of when they think of authority, then I am very happy to do that.

Right?

Like, I'm very happy to do.

If I remember correctly in your introduction to HBCU Made you talk a bit about your voice but in a different way.

Yeah, about adding Some bass to your voice and its funny because Honorée Fanonne Jeffers says the same thing.

You got to put some bass in your voice.

Basically what they were saying was, I was very timid.

Timid can't talk today.

I was very timid.

And but I was being in this leadership position as editor in chief.

And one of the reporters who actually went on to be very successful in life, Head of BuzzFeed and head of L.A. Times, Shani Hilton, she told me, but she was just another a senior when I was a junior at Howard, when she said to me, she was like, you should put a little bass in your voice.

And what she meant was just like, stand in who you are and like have use some authority like, you know what you're talking about.

And don't be so scared and shy when you're talking to people and trying to lead them, like just stand in your authority.

So put a little bass in your voice.

And you know, at the time I was like, I don't know.

And my, you know, my editor, I mean, our advisor, Professor Lamb, who's also a great journalist, she said, you know, I agree.

I think you could put a little more bass in your voice.

Like basically, like have more confidence.

And it wasn't something that I really took then.

But I talk about in the book about how that was something that I had to come come into this idea of, like standing in who I am and having and knowing my worth and knowing that I have something that is worth hearing and that what I have to say is worth hearing or as much as anybody else, you know.

And so it took time for for that to happen.

But I say in the book that I hope now everyone can hear me.

And I think I think they do.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So I, I love and admire the confidence, but I also want to know when the last time was that you got super nervous.

Oh, I get nervous all the time.

No, no.

So I want to be very clear.

I get nervous all the time.

So when you hear me say I stand in my self, also understand my self is scared 99% of the time.

I'm very afraid.

I am very anxious and I have lots of insecurities I get scared, you know, I get nervous coming up here.

I get nervous, you know, whenever I'm interviewing someone who I really admire, I interviewed Roxane Gay last week.

I was nervous about that.

I'm like, oh, am I going to sound crazy?

Like, how is this going to go?

Like when I interview some big celebrity, I interviewed Idris Elba.

I was very nervous about that in person.

No.

On Zoom.

I wish it were in person.

Oh, my goodness.

But it was on Zoom.

But yes, I was you know, I was very nervous about that.

I get nervous all the time.

I'm you know, I'm nervous about this book.

I just get nervous.

So I you know, and when I first started doing and this was from when I was guest hosting It's Been a Minute I had never done like these very long form interviews like 30 minutes, well really for It's Been a Minute is like an hour interviews that they've cut down to 30 minutes.

And I interviewed Emilia Clarke and I interviewed.

Oh you know and other yeah.

Another celebrity whose name is escaping me right now because I'm on the stage.

But, you know, I was so nervous, like, I was like, sit for like weeks ahead of time.

I was like, I don't know if I can do this.

I've never done it before.

Even though.

I like interview like presidents and stuff.

I don't know.

It was just something about doing this more freeform interview that was just like I, you know, but then, you know, I went to church and they preached about like fears and how, you know, sometimes you're afraid, not just of failure, but you're afraid of success because then you have to once you succeed, then you got to keep succeeding.

And then people have expectations for you and so I had to really deal with that.

Like, sometimes you're afraid of succeeding because what does that mean?

Now you have to prove yourself.

And so that's, you know, so I had to deal with that.

But yeah, I'm scared all the time.

If you see me out somewhere, I'm probably scared.

Yes.

What exciting work do you have coming up?

What interviews are you really looking forward to?

So I think so.

I'm looking forward to a lot of things.

So we are so we are going to see Will Shortz.

And next week we're going to visit the puzzle master at home.

So this is the scoop.

And so I'm looking forward to talking to the puzzle master at his table tennis club and at home.

I think it will be an amazing thing.

I think it will be some light in a time when everything is really, really dark.

We are hoping to do some more.

I had a civil rights generation series where we talked to those known and lesser known people from the civil rights generation.

We still want to do more of that.

We've got to figure out where that's going to go.

And yeah, I mean, I really just look forward to whatever work that we can do that seems meaningful and like, you know, and also I like to do the fun stuff, so, but yeah, those are some of Will Shortz's puzzle master at home.

Some of them.

Are you going to play him in table tennis?

I am going to play him at table tennis and I'm not good at it, but yeah, so we'll see how that goes.

But that's some good radio sound though.

Yeah, it's a good sound.

So it's going to be it's going to be a lot.

So but yeah, I think that should be fun for, you know, at a very, very dark time in this world.

So you need it.

We need some table tennis.

Yeah, well, we've come to the portion of the evening where it's your time to ask questions.

We have a microphone over here.

If folks would like to come up and ask a question, you can form an orderly line.

We're orderly.

We're public radio people.

And I do have a question as people think about theirs, there was submitted ahead of the show by a, oh this isnt a show its an event I'm thinking Vermont Edition, by somebody named Indira and they ask what is your best advice for an aspiring journalist?

How important is education compared to hands on experience when just beginning in the field?

I think, you know, I don't think you have to major in journalism.

A lot of people don't.

I definitely don't think you have to do go to graduate school.

I didn't go to graduate school, but you can if you want.

I think hands on learning for for journalism is essential because a lot of the stuff you can't necessarily learn in a classroom, like you really have to, you know, be out there knowing what it's like to ask questions and try to get answers and to chase after, you know, lawmakers or to sit at the boring city council meeting for like three or 4 hours and figure out what the news is out of it, even though it can be a bit arcane.

Some of that stuff you just have to do.

But I do think you need a foundation in what you know, journalism, journalistic ethics and what journalism what is acceptable and what's unacceptable.

So I think you need to have that foundation on what truth and facts and, you know, how reporting should be done and not know conflicts of interest and things like that.

I think all of that is very important, but I don't know that you have to learn that in a classroom.

I think you can learn that in the field.

But I will say for young journalist, because the journalism industry is changing a lot definitely learn all the skills that you can.

So I didn't take any like broadcast class classes when I was, you know, coming up.

And I wish I had like learn how to do broadcast, learn how to talk.

You know, even if you're doing print, learn how to write.

Because these days everyone has to do everything, learn how to produce, learn how to cut tape, learn how to, you know, make a podcast, learn how to do all the stuff.

And if some new stuff come up, try that, you know, because journalism is an industry that is changing very rapidly.

And so get all the skills that you can.

Let's have our first question asker come on up.

Hello, my name is.

Shy and it's not really a question, but I am.

I know you can probably not hear it, but I'm vaguely southern.

I'm from Louisiana.

I grew up on a farm in North Louisiana and the first time myself and one of my best friends heard you on the radio, we like jammed the phone lines as we were calling each other because it was a black woman.

Sounded southern like all of our cousins on the radio and we.

We fight each other all the time because we're like, who are these people who hate the way she sounds, you know?

So we were like, I just want to say it.

She, she, we haven't talked about it for like an hour.

And then to hear the John McWhorter podcast, we listen to it on the phone.

Yes.

Oh, wow.

Because we were like, what is wrong with everybody?

Yeah.

But we wanted to say that we love you and thank you for inspiring not just, you know, people who are much older than you like I am, but like I, my nieces, my nephews, my children and my grandchildren as well.

Oh, thank you.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Yeah.

First of all, it is a thrill to be here with you.

We you're part of our family.

Oh, we hear you every week.

It's just wonderful.

Listen, this is more of a suggestion.

Mm hmm.

My native language is French.

I grew up in Montreal listening to the BBC in the 1960s and seventies, and I also learned to imitate accents.

So let me try.

Okay.

One of the issues with the BBC in the 1960s and seventies, and this had gone back quite, quite a long time, was that they use what was called received pronunciation.

Now, received pronunciation was the only way the people on the BBC were allowed to speak.

Well, of course, that they can go over very well with a working class people, you know, using diphthongs and glottal stops.

I think you are helping to break that damned barrier.

So my comment to you, ma'am, is we love you.

Be who you are.

We're proud that you're on Vermont Public radio and all of the other ones.

So, yes, thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you so much.

It is well, this is a hard act to follow.

Can you do accents?

Yes.

Yeah, I can, but I'm here for a question.

Ayesha, I'm John and, hi.

What is your tell us, your most embarrassing moment.

At NPR.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

I talked about this earlier.

I was in London and it was like one of not my first overseas trip for NPR.

It might have been my first overseas trip for for NPR and I, but I was still pretty new.

I think it was like in my first year.

And I sometimes, you know, this is a technical thing, but like sometimes if they do the the wiring wrong or the connection wrong, when you're connecting from not from a studio, you're on the road.

And I was in London when this happened.

You can get like really bad feedback.

So basically you'll hear you'll be talking like this and then you'll hear yourself like less than a second later screaming back in your ear.

And so I had never done radio or broadcast before like that, and so I never had a technical issue on air.

And so I'm on air and I'm doing like Morning Edition and it's live.

And, you know, everything had seemed fine.

But then as soon as I said hello, I hear myself back.

And then after the first question, I really start hearing myself screaming back at myself and I'm trying to power through it.

I don't recommend that you can't really power through it if you're like hearing screaming in your ears and like as you're talking.

And so I couldn't power through it.

So I was sounding crazy.

I couldn't answer the questions.

And then I was like, Oh, my goodness, I don't know what to do.

Let me just be quiet.

And maybe they'll think the line dropped.

And so I said things.

So eventually they were like, okay, I think she's having some issues and they like stopped and we had to retake it.

But I felt horrible.

I was so embarassed, you know, all these people on Twitter were like, Are you okay?

What's going on?

Are, you know, like, are you like they thought I like had a stroke or something.

Like it was really bad and I just was so, you know, I was so embarrassed.

I'm like, Oh my gosh, I sounded crazy.

And so I had to learn.

You know, I talk to different people like Michel Martin and others, and they're like, look, if something like that happens, you have to say it because no one knows, you know, because they can't see you.

They don't know what's happening.

You have to say like, you know, I'm getting feedback.

And so that's a simple lesson.

But yeah, I felt horrible in the moment.

Like, I was so sad.

I was just there were tears.

I was sad.

Yes.

Yes.

Very nice to see you again.

Welcome back to Vermont.

Yes.

Yes.

My question is, as you know, I'm a parent of a black child living in a very predominately white space.

What is your advice for parents like me to instill in our children the value of a HBCU and what it means?

Yeah, you know what?

I think that you know, because I do think that sometimes, like, if a parent is pushing it, they may be like, you know, because when they get to be teenagers, they don't want to.

I got a ten year old who acts like he don't want to hear it, but I think that part of it is like I would say, take them to homecomings.

Because like, that's like if you really want to see the difference in the HBCU, the homecoming is a whole nother thing.

That's I think that's where and people in this book talk about they didn't know they wanted to go, but then they went to a homecoming and they saw the step shows and they saw the bands and they saw the food.

Like you get this feeling of all these generations coming together.

You see the love, you see the sororities and the fraternities.

It's just amazing.

Like, it's hard to describe.

You really have to live it.

But I say take them to homecoming because there's no party like a homecoming party.

Howard got the best homecomings.

That's all I got to say.

And there's celebrities there.

I mean, we would have for yard fests.

I mean, we had like the biggest pool at the time.

Now, this is at the time, it's like in the early 2000.

So like Nelly was huge.

We had Nelly, we had Kanye West.

But this was before all of that.

Before all of that, he was just starting out.

Hey P Diddy went to Howard for a minute.

Diddy went there.

Diddy would always have a big party.

So I say take them to homecoming.

That's what I recommend.

This.

Hello.

I'm Liz.

And I'm curious, I have a two part question.

I'm curious in your perspective on artificial intelligence in relation to journalism and broadcasting.

And then secondly, I don't know a lot about journalism.

I'm an avid listener, but do you design the program and how did you choose the puzzle?

It's a lot of fun and I'd be interested in how that came to be part of your Weekend Edition.

Well, I will start first, so I did not choose the puzzle that was chosen.

You know the puzzle like came down from on high.

But no, it really started at the beginning of Weekend Edition.

They wanted to do something.

The host wanted to have something different and unique, and so they came up with the puzzle.

So the puzzle has been there for, you know, like 30 years.

Like it's been there a very, very long time.

It's not going anywhere, everybody loves the puzzle.

And so, yeah, people will rise up about the puzzle and so and I love it.

So when it comes to so a lot of the structure of what you hear is kind of set.

But the, the, the stories that we decide to cover are a collaboration between me, the editors, the producers, everyone has ideas on staff and we have an executive producer, Sarah Lucy Oliver.

And then Evie Stone is the the deputy supervising producer and editor.

So, you know, they decide kind of like, you know, I decide what stories I'm really interested in.

And then we all kind of come together and decide what we want.

It's not just me.

It's a collaboration.

So but I can like say this, I really want to do this.

So I really want to do that and try to make it happen.

And then I think there is a big there's a lot of concern about A.I.

The head of NPR is has tried to, you know, put out we have NPR has started putting out some, you know, idea or not ideas have started putting out some statements about A.I.

and some fundamentals guidelines that they want to use regarding A.I.

and journalism.

I think it is really scary because I think A.I., like all these other things, have built in bias, you know, biases by the people who create them.

I mean, we see this like even with the little with the A.I.

drawings where you ask A.I.

to do a scientist and they show a white man or, you know, what does a professor look like?

And they're like, Oh, it looks like a white man.

And so I think that you have to be very careful.

And they're often not accurate.

I just think that it is really scary.

And I think that journalists have to be very careful about the use of A.I..

I'm not you know, I'm not a scientist.

And there's a lot that I don't know.

But I think that is something that has to be regarded with a lot of skepticism and concern.

And, you know, but I think but you have to also be cognizant of the fact that the world is going to continue moving.

So you can't just stand still.

So I think you got to figure out that balance.

Yes.

Yeah.

Hey there.

Hi.

This is sort of a follow up.

To that question you just answered.

So your Sunday show, it goes on for a couple hours.

What is the level of preparation that that requires throughout the week?

And what do you do in your downtime?

Oh, my goodness.

I don't get much downtime.

I have three kids and then I work this job and you know, then I'm doing books and stuff, so I don't get much downtime.

But the prep is it's, you know, is five days of work.

So we're from from Wednesday.

So my work week is Wednesday through Sunday.

And so we're doing a lot of we're taping a lot of the show ahead of time.

And so it takes and it's a team, you know, we have a team of people, at least 20, 25 people that are putting this show together.

So it takes a lot like it takes a lot to get Saturday and Sunday out to have 2 hours on Sunday and on Saturday.

And so my prep is I have editors, I have producers, I'm reading books, I'm watching documentaries, I've got a documentary I really need to read tonight or watch tonight.

I was reading the book on the airplane on the way, so it is a lot.

And then I'm trying to read articles and read up on what we're doing, but as a host you can't know everything.

So sometimes you're relying on your producers and you're relying on your editors, and a lot of times you're also just relying on all the work that you did before and just the knowledge that you've gained over the years of of reporting.

But it's a lot and is but it's definitely a team effort, you know.

Thank you for coming.

Clearly you are a favorite.

My question, thinking one of the things I was hoping to hear about tonight as a trusted news source, some some office gossip.

So at NPR could you maybe spill the tea a little bit as far as like who of your colleagues is like fun to have at a party tells good stories.

Oh my God you not want to get stuck in an elevator?

Oh, my goodness.

Things like that.

Oh, so as safely as you feel comfortable.

As comfortable as you feel love to hear.

I love this.

Yeah, that's a great that's a great question.

I don't know if I can really answer that.

There are lots of people who are, I think, great at, you know, great at a party, you know, someone who's really funny.

She's not with NPR anymore, but Audie Cornish is really funny.

She's really great.

So she's she's she's a lot of fun at a party.

Juana Summers is a good friend of mine, and she's on All Things Considered.

So I would say she's fun.

You know, Michel Martin, this isn't gossip, but Michel Martin has you know - Michel Martin and Audie both really reached out to me out of their own accord when I came in and really just like, you know, encouraged me, said, hey, come here, you know, how you doing?

What, you know, really sat me down and and have always been so kind to me.

So I can say that genuinely, like behind the scenes, you know, Scott Simon loves to talk about his kids, so if you get him anywhere, he's going to talk about his girls.

He has one in college and one is like in high school.

He's going to talk about his kids a lot.

And we're always talking about it.

And I have three kids, so we're always thinking about our kids together.

So so its both of us.

So a lot of our, you know, our banter is about that.

I'm trying to think who else.

I think everybody has their own their own little.

You know, Scott Horsley is great.

He's he's he can be really funny.

He has a real I think people wouldn't think Scott Horsley would have like the sense of humor that he has but he does.

Yeah, he can have he has has a great sense of humor.

Yeah, that's what I mean.

This I don't have nothing bad to say about nothing.

Not on camera, nothing like that.

But I really don't have anything bad to say about anybody.

Yeah, I think it's a lot of I think there are a lot of people at NPR that work really hard and they're really like the people that you see, you know, the people that you see or hear on the radio.

Thats a lot of what you get.

So they're they're really good people.

Yeah.

I thought I was going to have to save you there.

I'm sorry.

My name is Leonora, and I grew up in Montreal in a bicultural family.

My mother's from Mexico and we would go back and forth to Mexico City as a kid.

And I went to school there.

And when, you know, I'm used to being constantly a bridge, you know, culturally, nationally, everything.

So I've been in Vermont now for 23 years and decided to to to become an elected official for my community and I guess I want to ask, as a woman of color, how you handle being the bridge between having power, having a voice and and knowing that there are so many others that they don't and that, you know, balancing being patient and understanding that wheels turn slowly and being a team player versus handling that impatience that, you know, the knowing how how much people hurt are hurting when you bring up a topic that no one in the room will relate to and they might be like, well, we just don't want to cover that.

Yeah.

Have you had moments like that?

And how do you how do you how do you deal with that?

Well.

You know, I think that I do always try to keep in mind that there's so many people who are not in the position that I am.

So I'm blessed to be in a position where I can have a voice and I can, you know, make myself heard.

I always try to be cognizant that I don't speak for everyone, you know, like even people that look like me or whatever that I always, you know, I can only I can only speak from my experience.

But I do think it's important, even in those moments where it feels like, should I should I say this?

Like I always try to remember, like especially being in the White House press pool, there were times where I would be the only one who would ask about black unemployment and say, Okay, yeah, you're saying black unemployment is the best it's ever been, but it's still double white unemployment.

And I would have to ask that question and sometimes I would think, do I want to be the one to ask that question?

Why don't you know?

I have to be.

I got to ask the black question.

But then I'm like, well, if I don't ask it, it's not going to get asked.

And so I really had to say, you know, look, if I'm going to be in this space, let me at least, you know, do something that could be worthwhile and let me at least be a voice that they may not hear.

And so even though it can feel like this added burden, like, why do I have to be the one to ask about this?

Because black people are people and they're Americans like everybody else.

And this wouldn't be acceptable for, you know, for the white population have unemployment this high.

But I, I, I felt like I would lean towards asking the question because it's better to have the question as than to not have it asked at all, even if it felt unfair that I had to be the one.

But if I have to be the one, I'll be the one.

And that's the way I kind of felt.

Yeah.

Hi.

One question that I had sort of for you sort of touched on this earlier, you know, where reporters like you might be expecting a certain development to happen in a story or one certain thing to happen as you've been covering it for a while.

And then like something completely different, like the opposite of that thing happens and you have to like deal with that change in the story very quickly.

How, how do reporters deal with that, with journalists, deal with stuff like that.

Something like that happened quickly.

You know, I mean, when stuff like that happens, you hear a lot of foul language from people.

You hear a lot of like stressful.

You know, people get very stressed out.

But that's a very good question.

I mean, as a journalist, I will say it humbles you because you think you know, but you have no idea.

And sometimes things will surprise you and so I think that's part of being a journalist, is being able to adjust and to say, okay, throw that out.

We're doing something totally different.

Let me try to think on my feet.

Okay, what would I ask in this situation?

Now, this is not what I expected, but this is what we got.

And so what do I need to what do people need to know now?

And sometimes it's just basic, like who, what, when, where and why.

Just like, okay, so what's going on?

Who is it going to impact?

You know, how did this happen?

Just, you know, just start trying to get those answers and like, it sounds like really basic but it's really like.

I mean, it's really what we do like even in complicated situations, you really just start off by going like, okay, so, so, so tell me what happened.

Okay, so, so, so, so who what might be the impact of this?

Like, you know, that's kind of what you start doing.

But yeah, it's very stressful and I think, like I said, it's humbling because if you try to make some predictions and you see, oh, I was, oh, we were wrong about that.

Like, so I think you learn very quickly to kind of get out of the prediction business because you don't know what's going to happen.

Hi, I'm Scarlett.

I'm a high schooler in Vermont.

And I'm wondering, what's one of the most impactful interviews you've had and why?

So for my civil rights generation, for that series like those interviews that I did are some of the most the ones that I think will always stay with me.

Joanne Bland was one of the youngest people that marched on Bloody Sunday in Selma on the bridge.

And, you know, her going down to Selma and, you know, having her talk about what she went through will always stay with me.

She talked about I mean, I think then she was around 12 when she was on that bridge.

She was not personally beaten, but she was they chased them off the bridge and she remembers running with her sister, basically running for their lives.

And they ran past their home and they ran to a church.

And she thought they that the men would not come into the church, but they did.

And they they beat people in the church.

And I did not realize that I did not realize that the beating did not stay on that bridge, that they actually did go, you know, chased them throughout the town, including going into a church and throwing people into the Baptismal pool and breaking arms and doing all these things.

I mean, it was it was shocking.

And she talked about how they you know, at other marches, they would be chased.

They would chase them and run them all day.

I mean, it was just I mean, it's it is so and Joanne is now just in her sixties.

And so to talk to her and to hear her story, it will always stay with me.

And, you know, I talked to the cousin of Emmett Till, Reverend Wheeler Parker.

He's the last living witness of the kidnaping of Emmett Till and how the white men came in that night and he thought he was going to die.

He was just a child himself, and he thought he was dead.

And he thought, you know, he was just like, I'm going to die.

And so those stories will always stay with me.

I also got to tell tell the story of my mother and my uncle and them going through what they went through in Oxford, North Carolina, in 1970 and and, you know, marches and segregation and all of that.

So those stories will always stay with me.

So that's some of the work that I've done.

I'm really proud of that.

Hi, I'm Allison.

I teach journalism right down the road.

And several students are here in the audience.

Yeah, watching the not only the face and the voice and the tone of journalism change a bit over the years.

I every time I talk with my students, I get a lot of hope about the future and the evolution of where it's going.

But if you could talk with them about what you see five years hence, what's what will be the face and the voice of journalism, then you will still be rooted in the pursuit of truth.

But how do you see it changing?

It's hard before you answer that, I think this is the last question that we have time for.

So thank you to everybody who had other questions.

Hopefully you'll have a chance to potentially ask afterwards.

But what a great place to end on a look to the future.

You know, I think I think the I will say that it's hard for me to say what journalism will look like because I couldn't have predicted where journalism is now and the things that would happen now.

I think that what are seeing is, you know, I'm hoping that younger people will come up and that they will have their own ideas and that they will put their own stamp on journalism and push it to be more representative of the world around us, to push back on some of the predominant ideas that are often go on unquestioned and unchecked, and that it will that journalism will be, you know, a way of really reaching out to people who feel so disaffected right now.

Now, that sounds very Pollyanna ish, but what I think and what I hope is that each and every single one of us can just do the best we can with what we got and just try to make, you know, journalism in the world a little bit better.

If that means supporting journalism that you feel is good and worthwhile, then do that.

If you are a journalist, just being the best journalist you can be, whether you're like on stage like I am, or you're just kind of in the trenches just doing work that maybe doesn't get that attention.

Because that's what I realize now, is that for many years I was not on any one stage.

I wasn't doing anything like this.

No one would come in to see me, but I was doing the work and that work that I did laid the foundation for what I do now.

So so it is important to just do the work to the best of your ability and it will pay off in ways that you couldn't imagine.

So that's the only thing that I can hope for journalism.

So I hope it gets better.

I hope it gets more representative.

That's what my hope is.

Ayesha Rascoe, thank you.

Thank you so much.

And by the book you go preorder we are to get get the thing oh thank you so much that.

Oh my goodness thank you so much oh wow thank you thank you.

Thank you so much.