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- Welcome again to the most widely watched and longest running source of Carolina business policy and public affairs.

Each week, we take a look across this region to find out what those issues are that are worth discussing well beyond headlines.

Joining us again in just a moment on an executive profile is certainly one of the most wealthy and affluent people in South Carolina, but she is also one of the most influential when it comes to policy.

Charleston resident, Anita Zucker will join us and we hope you stay with us.

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(bright upbeat music) On this edition of Carolina Business Review and executive profile featuring Anita Zucker, chair and CEO of the Intertech Group.

(bright upbeat music) - And joining us again, we are honored to have chairman and chief executive officer of the Intertech Group, Anita Zucker.

Anita welcome Ms. Chairman, glad to see you again, you look healthy.

I hope you've been well.

- I have been thank you very much and I'm thrilled to have my two vaccines.

You feel a little bit better.

- Anita, let's start with the idea that being an educator, being around education policy and concerned for education for kids and families is not something foreign to you.

Obviously you were a teacher, you've got advanced degrees in education, you've been philanthropically around education for decades.

Now we talk so much about lost educational attainment for this last 12 months.

How do you look at it the last 12 months for schools?

- I look at it as a tragedy.

It is really sad how many children didn't have the opportunity nor the opportunity for the access to good education and many children today sadly, don't learn well virtually.

Virtual learning for them is more of the diversion of playing games.

It's not learning and the way many children see it.

I have grandchildren who had to have virtual education occasionally, but not for the entire year.

And so they have been able to learn because I'm there in person.

I think being with a teacher in the classroom with you it makes a huge impact because they can see you and have direct dialogue.

Okay, yes, virtually we can see each other, you and I get to look at each other and speak but for many children they don't do well.

If that person's not right there to talk to them to maybe put a hand on their shoulder.

And I mean today with COVID you can't even do those kinds of things.

But one of the things I can tell you that my Tri-County Cradle to career organization has been very involved with.

We created a recovery committee to try to work with the four school districts in our Tri-County area.

And that recovery committee has been particularly engaged in broadband.

We've been advocating for broadband through working with partners throughout the state, working with people that have been studying that issue, because one of the biggest issues that some of our children faced was not having the ability to even log on if they had an iPad or a pad of some sort that they could connect with.

And so some parents might have to go sit in a parking lot somewhere for their child to be able to do their work because there was a hotspot.

But we'd been working on that, we've also been working on a variety of different things at the state level.

We're advocating for innovative schools because our children are going to need to learn differently as we bring more and more children back to school.

And I'm happy that many of the children in this Tri-County area chose to attend school.

And I think that will help, but it's still difficult because things are so different in schools, in the classrooms.

The fact that everybody has to have masks in most of our districts anyway, it's just different.

And so you have to really touch the children differently to help them understand why.

- Well, and not diminishing any of that.

But taking that to the next step.

Is this an opportunity then as you talk about innovative schools, is this an opportunity to have what are charter schools?

What are private schools, what are public schools?

And let me ask it this way, will the model for public education in educating kids forever be different and will it get better?

- I think it will be different.

But maybe it will be different in an innovative way that will allow it to get better.

We know we need to change the system.

That's one thing we've been working on.

We wanna change what's happening within those systems because the systems as they are, are broken.

They're just not working to full potential to allow our child sometimes to even gain that full potential.

We have to look at it differently because we also have to look at the children who are not learning.

And with Cradle to Career, we really are changing our mission and our focus to focus on changing systems to be able to allow black and brown children to learn.

And once upon a time there were laws that would not allow them to learn.

And they're the children that have fallen behind the most.

And so we really have to create the changes for all of our children to create better systems but to really help those children so that we can help them now come back and get ahead and be able to achieve the same thing as any child is capable of achieving.

We have to have faith that they're capable and I believe many of them are.

They come from sometimes very difficult situations in life, but that's where the schools can be helpful and really create the change.

And I just spoke to a principal the other day and he really wants to create some innovative new things in his school.

And I love that he wants to do it within the system but the system will have to give him some autonomy.

And once upon a time within the systems we had autonomous schools in Charleston County, for example.

And when they gave those five schools those abilities they actually were doing incredibly great jobs.

And then I don't know why, but suddenly the school board said, we're not doing that anymore.

And they took it away.

And literally one particular school that I can think of just went Downhill big time.

And I think I'm thrilled to be a principal of a school that has all the issues that I'm talking about.

The issues with children who have parents that work with children that work in high school.

They can't achieve the number of days that they need to attend a class, to pass the class.

Even if they have an A average if they miss too many days, they'll fail.

And so we need change.

We just need to be innovative.

- So do you feel, as you talk about Charleston and Berkeley even Berkeley County, do you think that there is generally accepted agreement from the top, and I'm talking about the state house in Columbia, and in South Carolina.

Do you get the sense that there is an understanding and there needs to be a DNA change?

- I think they're beginning to get the understanding.

At least innovative schools are on the table because right now, the way the law was written that you were only allowed to have like one innovative school in a County and we need more than that.

We need so much more.

If we keep our school systems and not have to change to charter schools and other types of schools it can be done not within the system but within the system that's willing to change.

But still public school and still run by a board that it reports to and a superintendent but with the opportunity for creativity and innovation taking place within each school, based on its population that can create amazing opportunity and an amazing learning opportunities for children.

And that's what I'm hoping for, I really hope we can make that happen.

And we don't always have to bring in champions or quarterbacks or all of these new ways of running schools because I think it can be done from within, if we get a board who's willing to create the waivers necessary to allow for a little more freedom of how you operate the school.

We also have to create a pipeline for training the leaders in our schools and we need to train the black and brown leaders.

They need to be invested in and they need to lead because there's certain places where that's what all the schools look like and they need to see their own leaders in place who understand what they're doing and can lead.

It's been an interesting awakening, even for me to think about the people we have to help and that it can't always be me, I can't always be the one.

I have to help other people and give them the training and the opportunities that they can come in and be the ones who guide.

We need to work with our communities directly.

So it's got to come from the grassroots not the top, from those people who are in those neighborhoods need to guide us, we don't need to guide them.

They need to tell us what their needs are, we need to listen, and then together we need to create what the new schools look like.

- So does the Genesis for change gets stuck at public policy makers like the state house, is it stuck at the board level, or is it because parents aren't engaged?

- It's all three if we're not careful.

Right now, there's some stickiness at the state level and policy, but what's really nice is one particular school board that we're watching.

They're really interested in innovation and that's Charleston County.

Their board members are actually interested and that's been a really nice awakening to see that the school board is beginning to understand the need for change in how schools are operated.

And again, it's all about the leadership you put in each school and what they are required to do, but with also some freedom of how they're required to achieve their goals.

And I think our children can achieve 10 times more.

I just read an article this morning about kids being in at Trenton Tech for a high school but yet it's college-based high school program.

And it's giving them the chance for dual credits and walk out with an associates degree.

And how awesome is that if you handpick young people that can do that and walk out with that degree and then go into college if they choose or go directly into an occupation.

And I think the key today to me also is we have to think differently.

Not every child has to go to college and not every person needs a four year degree but they do need to be able to learn continuously and to be able to change as necessary because we live in a very different world where people must be able to be flexible and adaptable.

So if you're still learning, like, okay I'm going through the world and I'm aging, I've been around a while, but I can still learn and every day I'll try to learn something new.

And I think I'd be lost if I didn't, especially in the world we're in today, the use of technology.

I mean, I've had to use so many forms of different platforms of Zoom and Teams.

And I learned about another one called Remo.

They're also interesting and so different but having to use all of this while working from home it's been quite interesting but we need to create children like that.

Our children need to be different as to our college students today, our college students need to be hybrid.

- Well, let me bring in another dynamic.

As you talk about the deployment of educational services in schools and policy this other very big looming issues is the mental health of our kids, the mental health of the families, and in general, mental health during a lockdown.

How do we find our way out of this?

Is this throwing more funding at mental health services?

Is there another way that we need to approach this?

What would you say?

- I think we need to make sure we have enough mental health services.

Because yes, it's huge.

The needs in higher ed, I'm seeing big time how needy higher ed students.

- Educators or students?

- The students in particular.

They really need it because it's been a whole new world that they've also had to face.

And for some, when you go away from home but yet you have to sit in your room and you're by yourself, it's not what they expected of their college experience.

And so having the ability and the capacity for mental health is great.

Locally one of the neat things I have to give MUSC a tremendous amount of credit, because they've been so good.

They were one of the first organizations in the nation truly to use tele-health.

So not only are they using tele-health for us as adults, to be able to call in, to have a checkup, to do what the best that you can do that way, they're using it in mental health, and they're using it in pediatrics with pediatric mental health.

And so it's one of the opportunities we can use.

So we need to take advantage of new opportunities to provide mental health differently sometimes.

And yes, we need our teachers if kids are in the classroom, teachers need to be looking out for what they see, and if they see concerns then they need to make sure that they try to find help for that child.

So do we need more?

Yes, we need more.

I'm not sure how we pay for all of these things, but they are needed.

And yes, mental health has been a huge issue and there's been loss.

There've been times like I haven't seen some of my grandchildren in almost a year.

I am getting ready to see my youngest grandchild for the first time in five months.

He is gonna be nine months, oh boy, he is nine months old and I haven't seen him since he was four months old.

So I'm looking forward to that opportunity.

But, we were lucky we were able to be with my mother, but COVID made it clear we couldn't be with my sister.

So I've learned what it must've felt like for other families in what they were going through when they couldn't be with their loved ones.

Through loss, through whatever they were dealing with.

If they couldn't see their parents and their grandparents who were in homes or who were in facilities that were caring for them but couldn't offer them the love and the hugs and the warmth that they used to get.

And so that has been such a big thing cause I've always loved hugging people, being a handshaker, very warm kind of thing.

And it's like, whoa, the world has changed, we can't do these things right now.

And so there's been a lot to have to deal with and that changes how people feel.

- Indeed, I want to mention one more thing around the education then we're trying to put 10 pounds of information, in a five pound bag here and it's trying to make sure we keep you on time as well.

So one more thing around education, you had mentioned one of the tactical practical items around education would be the better deployment of broadband.

Everyone seems to agree on that, two questions.

Is this only about funding and number two would someone like you who has a broad voice in this, could you compel others to join you or others in getting this last mile of broadband put in place?

- Yes, is the answer and our committee is chaired by Joan Robinson-Berry and you probably know Joan, and Joan is very amazing.

And she has been the one chairing that committee for us and manage, and she making it happen.

And we really have brought together people from all over the state that have this interest.

There's someone that works with the university of South Carolina and they have mapped the state for broadband.

So we actually got to look at where the missing pieces are.

And then people like Home Telecom are really interested in helping at the state level, and in this region they're really interested as a provider and really that's what we have to do.

We have to find the providers whether it's utilities like AT&T, Verizon, and the Home Telecoms, and the Comcast's of the world.

Those providers need to help make it happen.

But we have some people who are working on this committee for the advocacy through the community foundation.

We've formed a coalition, we can't do it alone.

So yes, the coalition is statewide now, really working on this and I do think we'll make it happen.

- I'm sorry, go ahead and finish your thought, indeed my apology.

- It will take many resources to.

- Are you willing to commit to a date when you think that and I don't mean a specific day in day of the month, but is there some fungible data out there that you would think that the state South Carolina would actually have a broadband spider network in place and finished?

- I have not heard talk of a specific date but I'm gonna hope let's say by the end of this legislative session we can at least get the show on the road.

- Yeah, okay, that's fair enough.

- Making this happen and that's my hope.

- Let's talk about the industry for a minute.

Intertech, of course, the portfolio companies, real estate, aerospace, financial manufacturing technology, you've had a year now of feeling the effects of the economy like everyone else, like all the other businesses.

Are you changing your core strategies at all because of what has happened in the last 12 months?

- Yes we are.

And some of those core strategies revolve around our aerospace portfolio, for example.

Yes, because what's really good about the people that work for us and what we can do within our facilities is we're able to pivot and bring in different customers and reach out and try to bring in more automotive work, more other kinds of work that we know we can handle cause it's advanced manufacturing, which we're in.

Whether it's composites or sheet metal, it depends on what type insulation, those are some of the kinds of work we do.

And right now we were working with Boeing to see how they're going forward, and it sounds like we're creating a good plan with them.

They're not our only customer.

So that's the good news but that's been a really difficult one to work through because they haven't been selling planes because people haven't been flying and because of all those kinds of issues, and that's been definitely a tough issue where we've had to do some pivoting.

But we have our manufacturing spread out.

It's not only in Charleston, for example, we have two great facilities in Connecticut who are working like crazy.

And one is a maintenance and repair operation, and the other one is as almost purely composites.

We do a tremendous amount of work in the defense industry not the commercial airline industry.

And we do a ton of work with helicopters.

And so up there were co-located by Sikorsky, and we do have a tremendous amount of work that we're doing with them.

And so that's been really great, and now they're kind of overwhelmed with work and they're sending work down to Charleston.

So, you look at everything, you figure out what you're gonna do, and we've had to pivot change.

Unfortunately, we've had to have some reduction in force within that core business, because you can't, if you don't have money coming in, you can't pay people.

So you it's sad, I hate that.

That's the part that hurts me the most whatever we've had to do, but I have a wonderful CEO and leadership team in that Aerospace corp company.

And we meet monthly with that team, our leadership team at the Intertech group to make sure we're heading in the right direction.

And I would say change is coming and with positive momentum now beginning.

Some of my companies have been going like gangbusters.

Like we have a Fishing board company Z-man fishing products.

Well Z-man's quadrupled up during this time.

People want to be outside, they want to be fishing, they could do that from almost the beginning of the pandemic and lures.

We make these incredible fishing lures out of elastomers and polymers.

And they're great, and we have a huge social media presence.

We have pros that fish for us, one of our pros just won a Big Bass Tournament.

So we're always happy when we see things like that happening, and that business is going very well.

PBI and Rock Hill is going well.

Businesses that depend on funding from cities or counties or states were impacted by that because one of the main things we make is our high heat and fire resistant fiber that goes into fireman's turnout gear.

It's global, all the trade shows have been canceled so you have to sell differently, you have to present differently.

So yes, everything's had to change, we've had to be flexible but at least orders are still coming in.

The sad part is my entertainment business in Toronto.

The city of Toronto is still closed.

I have three big hockey businesses that are shut down still.

- I wish we had more time to unpack this because there's so much detail that we could mind from your experience.

We've got about two minutes left and I do wanna turn to something obviously very important to you.

You lost your mother within the last year, the iconic Ms. Rose Goldberg.

And I know she was more than a matriarch to the family but I wanna leverage off of something there.

If you don't mind, Anita, that you said your mother was your greatest teacher.

And of course, both of your parents were Holocaust survivors.

As we well know the Jews were singled out for being different.

So when you take that experience that they had, and that you grew up around, and when you apply it to now, this dialogue around diversity inclusion, how does your personal experience inform this renewed diversity and inclusion?

And literally we have about two minutes.

- So for me, diversity, equity and inclusion or diversity, equity, justice and inclusion is so important.

And when I think about, we probably have around a thousand employees just in the state of South Carolina now not counting my other businesses.

We have every kind of person that works for us and I want us to be able to protect those people.

So one of the things I'm doing right now is I have testified three times in the state of South Carolina, two house committees and yesterday the Senate to pass a hate crimes bill because I want us to offer protection to all people in our state.

So yes, I'm fighting for my parents, their memory, they were treated harshly, they were beaten, they were starved because they were Jewish, because of their religion.

We have to overcome these differences and we have to find a way to speak as one people.

And so I fight for that.

My mom taught me about resilience, she taught me to have courage.

She taught me that I had no choice but to keep going.

As the Jerry Zucker, the two of them, they said, you must keep going.

And right now for me the diversity equity and inclusion piece is very important.

I got our people together, all of my leadership team from our core companies, as well as the interconnect team.

And we did groundwater training so that we could begin to understand about bias.

Everyone read the book, Biased, and we're working on it.

We have to, there's no other option.

We have to continue to learn because everybody thinks they know everything and they don't.

It's shocking when you hear for every one white baby born, two black babies die.

So it's a fight for me.

- I'm gonna get hate mail for having to cut you off on this one because this is important to your heart.

Heck I don't even like to have to do it, but Anita thank you for taking time.

And I hope we can do this sooner rather than later to unpack maybe a little bit more about this, what's this means.

Thank you and also wanna say, as we approach high holidays here happy Passover and a great reminder for your family.

But thank you for joining us.

- Thank you so much, Chris.

It's been an honor and a pleasure and I wish you a happy Easter as well, and we'll all get through it that's most important, we just have to keep going.

- [Narrator] Major funding for Carolina Business Review provided by High Point university, Martin Marietta, Colonial Life, the Duke Endowment, Sonoco, BlueCross BlueShield of South Carolina, and by viewers like you, thank you.

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