>> HELLO, AND WELCOME TO ASK THE SPECIALISTS, TONIGHT WE ASK THE FUNERAL HOME DIRECTORS ON WCMU PUBLIC TELEVISION.

♪ >> HELLO, AND WELCOME BACK.

MY NAME IS STEPHANIE MILLS, I'LL BE YOUR HOST FOR THE NEXT HALF HOUR TAKING YOUR QUESTIONS FOR OUR FUNERAL HOME DIRECTORS THIS EVENING.

MY GUESTS TODAY ARE NICK WYMAN AND CHARLIE LUX WITH FAMILY FUNERAL HOME IN MOUNT PLEASANT.

SO THANK YOU GUYS BOTH FOR JOINING US THIS EVENING.

BEFORE WE DIVE INTO OUR QUESTIONS, YOU CAN EACH TAKE A MINUTE TO TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT YOURSELF AND TELL OUR VIEWERS YOUR AREA OF EXPERTISE.

CHARLIE, START WITH YOU.

>> OKAY, FIRST OF ALL, I'VE BEEN A LICENSED FUNERAL DIRECTOR FOR I BELIEVE 28 YEARS NOW, ALL OF IT HERE IN MOUNT PLEASANT, AND I MAY SPEAK FOR NICK WHEN I SAY THIS, OUR AREA OF EXPERTISE IS EVERYTHING FROM WASHING CARS TO PREPARING BODIES AND RUNNING FUNERALS, SO IN A SMALLER NICHE MARKET LIKE WE HAVE, WE'RE NOT EXPERTS AT ONE THING, LIKE MEETS WITH JUST FAMILIES, SOMEBODY JUST EMBALMED, SOMEBODY JUST DOES MAKEUP AND WASHES CARS.

MAYBE I'M SPEAKING FOR NICK WHEN I SAY HE DOES THE SAME THING.

>> THE MAINTENANCE GUY, THE LANDSCAPE GUY.

CHARLIE, YOU'RE SECOND GENERATION, RIGHT?

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

>> AND I'M THIRD GENERATION, WHEN YOU GROW UP IN THE FUNERAL HOME, YOU ARE THE CAR DETAIL GUY FROM 12 UNTIL YOU ARE OLD ENOUGH TO GO TO SCHOOL.

>> SURE, YOU'VE SEEN IT ALL.

>> YEAH, WE STARTED AT THE BOTTOM.

>> ALL RIGHT.

FOR OUR AUDIENCE AT HOME WATCHING US THIS EVENING, WHAT WE FOUND REALLY QUICK IS THIS PROGRAM SINCE WE INTRODUCED THE TOPIC THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS IS QUICKLY ONE OF OUR MORE POPULAR PROGRAMS AND PART OF THAT IS JUST BECAUSE OUR VIEWERS ARE INFORMATIVE AND IT'S ONE OF THE TOPICS THAT PEOPLE DON'T TALK ABOUT, YOU KNOW, OUTSIDE OF BESIDE WHEN SOMETHING HAPPENS, SO FOR OUR VIEWERS AT HOME WHO HAVE A QUESTION FOR OUR EXPERTS THIS EVENING, THERE'S A FEW DIFFERENT WAYS FOR YOU TO BE PART OF THIS CONVERSATION.

YOU CAN CALL THE NUMBER ON THE SCREEN, EVERYTHING IS COMPLETELY ANONYMOUS, OR YOU CAN POST YOUR QUESTION TO OUR FACEBOOK PAGE AT ASK THE SPECIALISTS.

SO THERE'S A FEW DIFFERENT WAY FOR YOU TO BE A PART OF THE CONVERSATION, THE SHOW IS FUELED BY QUESTIONS, DON'T HESITATE TO CALL.

SO CHARLIE AND NICK, THE LAST FEW SHOWS THAT WE STARTED, STARTED A SIMILAR WAY, THAT'S TALKING ABOUT COVID AND HOW THAT'S CHANGED SO MUCH OF OUR DAILY LIVES, AND YOUR INDUSTRY HAS OBVIOUSLY HAD A BIG IMPACT WITH THAT, TOO.

SO WITH FAMILIES NOT BEING ABLE TO HAVE THE MEMORIALS AND FUNERALS, HOW HAS THAT IMPACTED YOU GUYS?

>> I'LL TAKE THAT, I'LL START, I GUESS.

I KIND OF FIGURED THERE MIGHT BE A COUPLE OF COVID QUESTIONS, MY ANSWER TO THAT IS WE'RE IN AN ESSENTIAL BUSINESS, WE'RE ESSENTIAL WORKERS, SO OBVIOUSLY OUR ROLE AS A FUNERAL DIRECTOR HASN'T CHANGED, BUT THE ROLES THAT HAVE CHANGED IT SEEMS IT'S ON THE FAMILY'S PART.

THERE'S LESS MOURNING THAT'S GOING ON.

THERE'S MORE DIRECT CREMATIONS, MORE IMMEDIATE BURIALS, LESS FAMILY TIME WITH VISITORS THAT COME INTO PAY THEIR RESPECTS, SO IN THAT RESPECT IT'S SAD BECAUSE PEOPLE AREN'T REALLY GETTING THAT CHANCE TO MOURN THE LOSS OF THEIR LOVED ONE.

>> SURE.

>> I'VE SEEN AT LEAST ON MY PART.

>> YEAH, I WOULD SAY THAT CHARLIE AND I WERE JUST CHATTING, CATCHING UP, FOR THOSE OF YOU THAT DON'T KNOW WHERE I'M FROM, I'M SOUTH OF MOUNT PLEASANT, NORTH OF MOUNT PLEASANT AND CLAIRE, WE HAVE TWO COMMUNITIES WE SERVE THERE.

LITTLE SMALLER SCALE THAN CHARLIE, LITTLE SMALLER COMMUNITIES THAN THE HUSTLE AND BUSTLE, MOUNT PLEASANT WAS BIG CITY, CHARLIE HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD WHEN HE SAID SMALL TOWN MARKET.

CHARLIE PRETTY WELL SAID IT, IT'S CHANGED THINGS IN THE ASPECT OF A LOT OF FAMILIES ARE, YOU KNOW, CAUTIOUS WHEN SOMETHING HAPPENS, WE'RE FIELDING PHONE CALLS, IF THE FAMILY HAS A LOVED ONE THAT'S NOT DOING AS WELL, AND YOU KNOW KIND OF PREPLANNING, PREGAMING, SO TO SPEAK, WHAT DO WE DO?

AND IN A LOT OF CASES WE FOUND A LOT OF FAMILIES SAY TELL US WHAT WE NEED TO DO, AND WE JUST DO OUR BEST, WE TRY TO, TO LAY OUT OTHER OPTIONS OF WHAT'S POSSIBLE.

THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF ADAPTATION FOR US, WE LIVE STREAM ALMOST EVERY SERVICE WE DO TO HELP PEOPLE, BE ABLE TO VIEW FROM SOMEWHERE REMOTELY.

>> TO BE A PART OF THAT.

>> YEAH, AND WHEN WE OPEN THE DOOR FOR A TRADITIONAL STYLE SERVICE BECAUSE THAT'S STILL AN OPTION FOR FOLKS, THEY HAVEN'T TAKEN IT OFF THE TABLE, JUST IN LIMITED NUMBERS.

WE TRY TO WORD IT IN A WAY FOLKS ARE RESPECTFUL FOR FAMILY PRIORITY AND MOST FOLKS KNOW, FAMILY COMES FIRST, YOU NEED TO MAKE ROOM FOR THOSE FAMILY MEMBERS AND PEOPLE ARE RESPECTFUL OF THAT.

WE HAVEN'T HAD TOO MUCH TROUBLE MANAGING, MOST FOLKS COVID RELATED ARE SELF-LIMITED.

>> YES.

>> AND PEOPLE KNOW WHAT THEY'RE GETTING INTO, I THINK, WHEN THEY HAD A SERVICE AND OPEN IT UP TO THE PUBLIC, THEY KNOW THAT THERE'S NOT GOING TO BE AS MANY PEOPLE, AND THE PEOPLE THAT COME TO THESE SERVICES KNOW FULL WELL THAT THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO WEAR THEIR MASKS AND SOCIAL DISTANCE.

WHAT I FIND IS THE MOST UNIQUE THING AND ODD THING ABOUT OUR SERVICES, WE'RE SO USED TO THE HUGGING AND EMBRACING.

>> AND TO NOT SEE THAT?

>> OR EVEN GIVE A HUG TO A FAMILY MEMBER, AND NICK IS THE SAME WAY, VERY ODD.

>> IT'S STRANGE, AND THE FLOW OF -- TRADITIONALLY, IT SOUNDS FUNNY, BUT WEDDINGS AND FUNERALS ARE A LOT OF TIMES WHERE FAMILIES, UNFORTUNATELY WITH TODAY'S WORLD, HOW FAST PACED IT IS, EVERYBODY IS SPREAD OUT.

THOSE ARE THE TWO EVENTS WHERE EVERYBODY IS GETTING BACK TOGETHER.

A LOT OF TIMES FOR VISITATIONS, IT'S KIND OF MORE A TIME OF CELEBRATION AND JOY, ENJOYING COMPANY.

AS OF THE LAST YEAR, WE'RE SEEING FOLK COME IN FOR A BRIEF PERIOD OF TIME, IN FOR FIVE MINUTES AND THEY'RE GONE.

THAT'S SAD TO SEE, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, WE GOT TO KIND OF TRY TO DO THAT TO KEEP THINGS OPEN, KEEP IT MANAGEABLE.

>> WE HAVE OUR FIRST FACEBOOK QUESTION.

MY FAMILY HAS AN EXTRA BURIAL PLOT.

HOW WOULD I GO ABOUT SELLING IT?

>> WELL, IT DEPENDS ON THE CEMETERY.

IF IT'S PRIVATELY OWNED CEMETERY OWNED BY A CHURCH, OWNED BY A TOWNSHIP, A LOT OF TIMES YOU HAVE TO GO THROUGH THAT AVENUE OF WHO SOLD THE PLOT TO BEGIN WITH.

SO IT'S KIND OF DIFFICULT BECAUSE LET'S SAY THERE ARE FOUR CHILDREN IN THIS FAMILY, THE PARENTS OWNED FOUR CEMETERY SPACES AND THE PARENTS ARE BOTH DECEASED, THAT BECOMES THE RIGHT OF ALL FOUR CHILDREN, AND YOU ALL HAVE EQUAL SAY IN THE EXTRA BURIAL PLOT.

YOU HAVE TO GET EVERYBODY TO SIGN OFF AND AGREE TO SELL IT, OR AGREE TO HAVE SOMEBODY BURY IT.

SO IT DEPENDS ON YOUR OWN FAMILY MEMBERS AND WHEREVER YOU PURCHASED THE LOT FROM.

>> THE CEMETERY WILL HAVE SPECIFIC RULES, SOME CEMETERIES TREAT DIFFERENT.

SOME CEMETERIES ARE KIND ENOUGH TO PURCHASE IT BACK AND RESELL.

OTHER CEMETERIES WILL SAY NOT OUR PROBLEM, DON'T WANT YOU TO DO SOMETHING INDEPENDENTLY.

THAT'S NOT SO MUCH WHERE WE LIVE CLOSE BY IN CENTRAL MICHIGAN, I DON'T THINK, THAT'S BIGGER CEMETERY ORGANIZATIONS, OR MAYBE -- >> MY SUGGESTION WOULD BE LOOK AT THE HEADSTONES AROUND YOU AND SEE IF YOU KNOW ANY OF THE PEOPLE, CONTACT THEM AND SEE IF THEY WANT IT, A LOT OF TIMES THERE'S OTHER FAMILY MEMBERS NEARBY THAT WOULD LIKE A CEMETERY SPOT NEAR THEIR FAMILY.

THAT'S WORTH A TRY.

>> SPEAKING OF BURIALS, IS IT LEGAL TO BURY SOMEONE ON PRIVATE PROPERTY?

>> YES, IT IS, BUT THERE'S QUITE A BIT OF RED TAPE YOU HAVE TO GO THROUGH.

>> IF YOU WANTED TO DO A TRADITIONAL BODY BURIAL, A FULL CASKET, THAT'S A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF RED TAPE THAT YOU WOULD KNOW MORE ABOUT THAT.

>> I'VE NEVER EVEN DONE THAT.

I THINK YOU HAVE TO LEGALLY DESIGNATE THAT PROPERTY.

>> ONE ACRE OF PROPERTY AND DESIGNATED AS A CEMETERY FOR THE REST OF EXISTENCE.

>> SET UP LIKE A PERPETUAL CARE FUND TO GUARANTEE THE PROPERTY WILL BE MAINTAINED.

>> IT'S A PRETTY INVOLVED PROCESS.

>> VERY MUCH SO.

>> YOU CAN DO IT -- >> I'VE NEVER HAD ANYBODY THAT STARTED THAT PROCESS.

>> CREMATED REMAINS IS DIFFERENT.

AFTER CREMATION TAKES PLACE, THE STATE OF MICHIGAN, ALL THE LEGAL LAWS ARE PRETTY WELL SATISFIED.

IF SOMEONE WANTED TO BE SCATTERED OR BURIED IN THAT WAY, AS LONG AS IT'S YOUR PROPERTY AND YOU ARE NOT TRESPASSING, YOU GOT THE GREEN LIGHT TO DO WHAT YOU WANT.

>> OKAY.

SPEAKING OF CREMATION, IS IT NECESSARY TO GO THROUGH A FUNERAL HOME DO A CREMATION?

>> YES, IT IS.

ABSOLUTELY.

SO EVERYBODY THAT DIES IS ISSUED A DEATH CERTIFICATE LIKE A BIRTH CERTIFICATE.

IN ORDER TO GET IT FILED WITH THE COUNTY CLERK'S OFFICE, HAS TO BE SIGNED BY A LICENSED FUNERAL DIRECTOR.

>> OKAY.

>> AND THAT LICENSED FUNERAL DIRECTOR HAS TO BE ASSOCIATED WITH FUNERAL FIRM.

SO CONSEQUENTLY THERE'S GOING TO BE A FUNERAL HOME'S NAME LISTED ON THE DEATH CERTIFICATE OR A FUNERAL HOME THAT'S DOING BUSINESS AS SOMETHING ELSE, BUT IT'S GOING TO BE TIED BACK TO A FUNERAL HOME, SO THERE'S NO WAY TO GET AROUND.

>> THE STATE OF MICHIGAN IS ONE OF 11 STATES IN THE UNION, WE HAVE AN ANTI-COMBINATION LAW, SO A FUNERAL HOME TECHNICALLY ISN'T SUPPOSED TO OWN OR OPERATE A CEMETERY OR CREMATORY, YOU HAVE TO GO THROUGH A FUNERAL DIRECTOR LICENSED TO A FUNERAL HOME AND OUR JOB IS TO TECHNICALLY CONTRACT WITH A SERVICE PROVIDER, CEMETERY, CREMATORY TO CARRY OUT THAT ACT.

THAT'S THE LEGAL WAY.

>> AND CEMETERIES AND CREMATORIES ARE ONE ENTITY.

FUNERAL HOMES ARE ANOTHER ENTITY AND NOT ALLOWED TO OWN EACH OTHER.

>> NOT TO SAY THAT NOT ALL WILL MAYBE ADVERTISE, THEY MAYBE TRY TO PAINT A PICTURE THAT WOULD SAY THE OPPOSITE OR SOMETHING DIFFERENT.

>> IT'S AN ANTI-COMBO LAW, TO AVOID MONOPOLIES.

>> THAT MAKES SENSE.

ONE MORE QUESTION FROM FACEBOOK, BACK TO COVID, WITH THE NEW COVID RESTRICTIONS AND LIMITED NUMBER OF GUESTS ALLOWED, DOES THAT INCLUDE THE FUNERAL HOME EMPLOYEES NEED TO HELP WITH THE CEREMONY.

DOES THAT LIMIT YOU ON THE NUMBER OF EMPLOYEES THAT CAN HELP WITH A CEREMONY?

>> MY INTERPRETATION IS WE -- IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE PER YOUR BUILDING OR OCCUPANCY.

IS THAT HOW YOU -- >> AS I READ IT, THE LATEST LAW, AND IT'S HARD TO FOLLOW.

>> THE INTERESTING THING IS RIGHT NOW I GUESS IT'S 25.

>> 25.

>> HOWEVER, YOU GO INTO SOME CHURCHES AND THEIR RULES ARE 25% CAPACITY.

IF YOUR CHURCH HOLDS A THOUSAND PEOPLE, THEY'LL ALLOW 250 PEOPLE IN.

SO IT'S REALLY NOT -- IT'S TOUGH TO DISTINGUISH TRUTH OF THIS ORDINANCE OR LAW, AND SECONDLY, IT'S KIND OF STRANGE BECAUSE SOME FUNERAL HOMES ARE MUCH LARGER THAN OTHERS, TO SAY 25 PEOPLE CAN ATTEND WHEN YOU HAVE A LARGE FUNERAL HOME VERSUS A SMALL FUNERAL HOME, IT'S REALLY NOT A GOOD NUMBER TO SAY BLANKET NUMBER OF 25.

>> YEP, YEP.

I CAN SEE WHAT YOU MEAN.

CALLER FROM MOUNT PLEASANT.

CHARLIE, FOR YOU, HOW DO YOU BALANCE FAMILY TIME AND BEING ON CALL 24/7?

>> PROBABLY ONE OF MY KIDS.

[LAUGHTER] >> IT'S VERY DIFFICULT.

I'M THE ONLY LICENSED FUNERAL DIRECTOR AT MY ESTABLISHMENT.

I HAVE A GREAT STAFF TO HELP ME, BUT BALANCING FAMILY TIME IS LIKE I'M MARRIED TO MY WIFE MINDY AND MARRIED TO MY COMMUNITY, AND MINDY TAKES THE BACK SEAT, UNFORTUNATELY, MOST OF THE TIME.

WHEN THERE'S A DEATH, YOU JUST DROP EVERYTHING.

YOU GO TO IT.

MY KIDS GET IT AND MY WIFE GETS IT.

IT'S PART OF THE JOB, PART OF YOUR CALLING AND I LOVE WHAT I DO.

>> GOT IT.

FIND A WAY TO MAKE IT HAPPEN.

>> YEP.

>> I THINK THE PEOPLE SURROUNDING YOU GET PRETTY ACCUSTOMED TO IT.

THE BEST PLAN TO GET BUSY IS PLAN A FAMILY OUTING OR VACATION, KIND OF ALMOST A GUARANTEE TO GET WORK.

>> CALLER FROM LANSING, HOW LONG DOES IT TAKE TO APPLY MAKEUP ON THE DECEASED?

I GUESS THAT DEPENDS ON THE PERSON.

>> A WIDE RANGE.

THAT'S A CASE-BY-CASE BASIS.

>> THE BETTER JOB YOU DO EMBALMING THEM LEADS TO LESS PROBLEMS DOING MAKEUP.

IF YOU DO A REALLY GOOD JOB EMBALMING OR THE INDIVIDUAL EMBALMS WELL, MAKEUP GOES ON MUCH BETTER.

>> GOT IT.

>> I WOULD SAY NO SPECIFIC SET.

WHEN YOU GET READY TO DO THAT WORK, YOU DON'T SAY I'M STARTING AT 2:00, I'LL BE DONE BY 2:15, IT COULD TAKE THE TIME IT TAKES.

>> AND IT DOES.

WHEN SOMEBODY SAYS HOW LONG DOES IT TAKE TO PUT MAKEUP ON IT.

THE NAILS ARE INVOLVED AND FLUFFING EYEBROWS AND ALL OF THAT THING.

IT CAN TAKE FROM 30 TO 60 MINUTES.

>> SURE, SURE.

>> IF YOU HAVE A CASE WHERE YOU HAVE AN EXTRA CIRCUMSTANCE, SOMETIMES IT TAKES A DAY.

>> A LITTLE MORE RESTORATIVE.

>> WHAT HAPPENS TO METAL BODY PARTS OR TEETH, ACTUALLY, WHEN YOU'RE DOING A CREMATION?

>> I KNOW EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENS.

>> OKAY.

>> AND I WAS JUST TALKING TO ONE OF MY COLLEAGUE WHO JUST OPENED UP HIS NEW CREMATORIUM IN BRECKINRIDGE AND INDICATED THAT AFTER THE CREMATION PROCESS IS DONE WITH, AND THE BONES ARE TAKEN OUT OF THE RETORT OR THE CHAMBER WHICH THEY'RE BURNED, THEY PASS A LARGE MAGNET OVER THE BONES AND PULLS OUT ALL OF THE METAL, THE FILLINGS, SCREWS IN THE JOINT, AND THEY PUT THEM, THEY SET THEM ASIDE, AND THEY RECYCLE THEM, SO THERE'S ONE COMPANY THAT ACTUALLY WILL DO, TAKE THOSE FOR YOU, THEY PROVIDE A BIN FOR YOU AND EITHER TAKE THEM AT AN ANNUAL BASIS, SEND YOU A RECENT CHECK WHICH I DON'T THINK IS GREAT, OR THEY WILL REIMBURSE YOU WITH SOME TYPE OF EQUIPMENT, LIKE UPGRADE YOUR EQUIPMENT, OR THEY WILL, LIKE MY FRIEND DID IN BRECKINRIDGE, HE SAYS HE'S GOING TO DONATE HIS TO A SPECIAL CHARITY.

>> A LOT DO IT THAT WAY.

>> THEY DON'T WANT TO BE KNOWN FOR MAKING MONEY OFF OF SOMEBODY ELSE'S PARTS, IMPLANTS, THEY DONATE THEM TO A CHARITY, THE MONEY, WHICH IS GREAT, ADMIRABLE.

>> CALLER FROM HOWARD CITY.

WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A GREEN FUNERAL AND A TRADITIONAL ONE, AND DOES MICHIGAN ALLOW GREEN FUNERALS?

WHAT IS A GREEN FUNERAL?

>> SO CERTAIN CEMETERIES WILL HAVE CERTAIN DESIGNATED AREAS WHERE YOU CAN DO THINGS GREEN, AND BY DOING THINGS GREEN, THE WHOLE IDEA IS TO REDUCE YOUR CARBON FOOTPRINT AS MUCH AS YOU CAN, AND IN A TRUE SENSE OF A GREEN FUNERAL WOULD BE EVERYTHING GOING IN THE EARTH COMPLETELY DECOMPOSABLE.

SO NO TYPE OF CASKET OR VAULT THAT WOULD LEAVE A LONGSTANDING SPACE THAT YOU HAVE A CARBON FOOTPRINT IN THE EARTH, IS MY UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT A TRUE SENSE OF GREEN MEANS.

ALL OF THE CEMETERIES IN OUR IMMEDIATE AREA THAT I'M IN REGULARLY WOULD REQUIRE AN OUTER BURIAL VAULT AT THE CEMETERY, FOR THE SAFETY OF SUPPORTING THE LOAD OF THE EARTH ABOVE A CASKETED BODY, AND THEN, OF COURSE, AS THERE NEEDS TO BE MAINTENANCE DONE TO THE CEMETERY, SUPPORTS THE HEAVY EQUIPMENT USED TO KEEP MAINTENANCE.

>> HAVE YOU EVER DONE A GREEN BURIAL?

>> I'VE NEVER DONE ONE.

THERE ARE CEMETERIES IN LARGE COMMUNITIES THAT HAVE GREEN AREAS OR GREEN SECTIONS.

I, MYSELF, YOU HAVE TO USE A WILLOW -- THEY MAKE SPECIAL TYPES OF CASKETS.

>> A GREEN FUNERAL, THE SAME AS A GREEN CASKET?

>> YEAH, IT WILL DECOMPOSE, AND I HAD THIS QUESTION A FEW YEARS AGO AND SAID THE FIRST PEOPLE THEY THOUGHT DID GREEN BURIALS WERE THE JEWISH.

>> YEAH, THEY DON'T EMBALM.

MY UNDERSTANDING IS NO INTRODUCTION OF THE CHEMICALS THAT WE WOULD USE, THEY DON'T WANT TO INTRODUCE THAT TO THE EARTH EITHER, ESSENTIALLY LIKE A SHROUDING.

>> WITH WOODEN DOWELS THAT HOLD THEM TOGETHER.

THEY'RE BURIED HERE, THEY ARE REQUIRED TO HAVE A VAULT MADE OUT OF CONCRETE.

>> THERE WAS TALK OF SOMEBODY DESIGNATING A PROPERTY THAT MAYBE WOULD DO, THAT KEEP EVERYTHING GREEN, AND NO HEADSTONES OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.

YOU HAVE TO FIND A STICK OR A ROCK ALONG THAT PATH AND THAT WOULD BE THAT MARKER, IS THERE A HUGE MARKET FOR IT IN MIDDLE MICHIGAN?

>> A LOT OF HURTLES TO GET OVER, I DON'T THINK IT'S CAUGHT ON.

>> GOT IT.

ANOTHER QUESTION FROM SOCIAL MEDIA IS MY FATHER'S WISHES DIFFER FROM THE FAMILY'S, WHO IS COVERING THE COST OF THE EVENTUAL FUNERAL?

DOES THE FUNERAL HOME HAVE TO SIDE WITH THE FAMILY?

>> SOUNDS LIKE AN EVERYDAY EVENT FOR US.

[LAUGHTER] >> WELL, IT DEPENDS.

COULD THIS TRY TO KEEP THIS BRIEF.

REGARDING CREMATION IN MICHIGAN, THE LAW IS PRETTY STRICT.

IF THERE'S ONE LEGAL NEXT OF KIN, SO A SPOUSE, WHICH WOULD BE THAT INSTANCE, THAT SPOUSE GETS TO MAKE THAT DECISION.

>> OKAY.

>> IF THERE ARE AN ODD NUMBER OF LEGAL NEXT OF KIN, SO THREE KIDS, YOU HAVE TO HAVE SIMPLE MAJORITY.

TWO KIDS HAVE TO BE IN AGREEMENT.

IF THE OTHER KID OR CHILD IS IN DISAGREEMENT, SINCE WE HAVE SIMPLE MAJORITY, OUR LIFE SOMETIMES IS BETTER SERVED IN BLACK AND WHITE JERSEYS WITH YELLOW FLAGS AND WHISTLES.

BUT WHEN TRADITIONAL BURIAL WAS THE END DESIRE TO HAVE A TRADITIONAL CASKET IN A CEMETERY, THE STATE DOESN'T MAKE YOU JUMP THROUGH THOSE HOOPS.

THAT'S WHEN YOU GOT TO PUT YOUR LISTENING EARS ON AND TRY TO HELP EVERYBODY COMPROMISE TO THE BEST OF WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO DO.

>> IF I UNDERSTAND THIS CORRECTLY, IF THE FATHER DISAGREES WITH THE CHILDREN, I'M ASSUMING MAYBE THE MOTHER DIED, AND THE HUSBAND WANTS HER CREMATED, THAT'S WHAT I'M GATHERING, HE GETS ALL THE SAY.

BUT IF HE'S NOT PAYING FOR THE FUNERAL, THERE HAS TO BE LEVEL GROUND WHO CAN DO THAT.

BUT THE OTHER THING THAT -- AND NICK STATED THE SPOUSE, ONE THING THAT SUPERSEDES THE SPOUSE, THAT'S THE DESIGNATED FUNERAL REP.

THERE'S A FORM THAT CAN ACTUALLY BE FILLED OUT BY THE PERSON BEFORE THEY DIE DESIGNATING SOMEONE TO BE THEIR REP, WHICH SUPERSEDES THE SPOUSE.

SO ESSENTIALLY IT COULD BE A FRIEND, IT COULD BE THEIR NEIGHBOR, A NEPHEW AND THAT PERSON WALKS IN WITH A DESIGNATED FUNERAL REP FORM AND GET TO SAY WHAT HAPPENS.

>> INTERESTING PIECE OF INFORMATION.

THAT DOCUMENT'S ONLY VALID IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN, THOUGH.

SOMEBODY IS LIKE A SNOWBIRD AND THEY HAVE THAT FILLED OUT IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN AND THE STATE OF FLORIDA, THAT DOCUMENT MAY NOT HOLD UP, BUT YEAH, CHARLIE IS EXACTLY RIGHT.

LEGAL NEXT OF KIN GETS TO MAKE THE ULTIMATE SAY.

THE HARD PART IS IF THERE IS ONE FINANCIALLY RESPONSIBLE PARTY, YOU GOT TO FIND A COMPROMISE.

>> GOT TO BE ON THE SAME PAGE, THAT'S A REALLY GOOD QUESTION.

>> CALLER FROM LANSING, WHAT IS THE PROCESS FOR CREMATION?

>> OKAY, THE PROCESS FOR CREMATION IS, THE DECEASED IS TAKEN TO -- WELL, I SHOULDN'T SAY THAT, NOT RIGHT AWAY, I THINK NICK'S POLICY IS THE SAME.

WE HAVE REFRIGERATION ON-SITE, SO THE DECEASED STAYS IN OUR CARE UNTIL SUCH TIME AS THE DOCTOR SIGNS THE DEATH CERTIFICATE, THE MEDICAL EXAMINER FROM THE COUNTY IN WHICH THE PERSON DIED ALSO SIGNS OFF ON A CREMATION PERMIT.

MEDICAL EXAMINER WON'T SIGN UNTIL THE PHYSICIAN SIGNS THE DEATH CERTIFICATE.

THAT'S USUALLY THE HOLDUP.

AND IN ADDITION TO GETTING THE MEDICAL EXAMINER'S PERMIT, YOU ALSO, AS WE MENTIONED, ABOUT GETTING THE NEXT OF KIN TO SIGN A CREMATION AUTHORIZATION.

CREMATION AUTHORIZATION BY THE FAMILY, PERMIT BY THE MEDICAL EXAMINER, BODY IS TAKEN TO THE CREMATORY, PUT IN THE RETORT, AND WHAT PEOPLE DON'T REALIZE, THE BODIES DON'T MAGICALLY GET IN THE RETORT.

THEY HAVE TO BE IN A RIGID STRUCTURE, AT THE MINIMUM A CARDBOARD BOX, SO THE PEOPLE DON'T HAVE TO BE HANDLING THE DECEASED.

BODY IN THE RETORT, BONES COME OUT AFTER THE COOLING PROCESS.

THEY ARE PULVERIZED INTO FINE PARTICLES AND THAT'S THE ASH.

>> GOT IT.

EMBALMING, HOW HAS THE EMBALMING PROCESS CHANGED FROM THE LATE 60s TO TODAY?

>> NICK?

>> YEAH, PROBABLY BECAUSE I'VE GONE THROUGH SCHOOL MORE RECENTLY, AND THEY MAKE YOU STUDY ALL THAT.

I WOULD SAY PROBABLY NOT A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT.

THERE'S ALWAYS DIFFERENT TECHNIQUES.

THERE ARE PROFESSIONAL TRADESMEN THAT WRITE ARTICLES, THIS CASE I HAD THIS CONDITION, MAYBE SOMEBODY WAS RETAINING FLUID OR SOMEBODY WAS BADLY BURNED, A LOT MORE OF THAT SPECIFIC STUFF OF, HEY, THIS IS HOW WE TREATED THIS IN A SPECIFIC WAY.

OUR MACHINES ARE BUILT IN A VERY SIMILAR FASHION, WHAT STYLE OR TYPE OF EMBALMER YOU ARE, SOME GUYS BELIEVE IN A LITTLE DIFFERENT.

OUR EMBALMING MACHINES ARE PICTURE A BIG STEEL BOX THAT WOULD ACT AS AN ARTIFICIAL HEART.

OUR JOB IS TO JUST REPLACE YOUR BLOOD TISSUES WITH OUR CHEMICAL, WATER IS A VEHICLE TO DO THAT.

THE BEST JOB WE CAN DO OF REPLACING THE BLOOD TISSUE WITH CHEMICAL, THE BETTER JOB WE HAVE OF EMBALMING.

MACHINES ARE PROBABLY MORE UPDATED IN 2020 THAN THEY WERE IN 1960.

IN THE OLD DAYS THEY DID IT WITH A GRAVITY BAG, FEED A PULLEY UP TO HOW MANY FEET AND INJECT BY GRAVITY.

AND THEY SAID WE CAN MANUALLY PUMP THROUGH A HAND PUMP, AND THAT CAUGHT ON, LET'S GO ELECTRIC.

>> THEN A MACHINE.

I'LL SAY ONE THING MY DAD TOLD ME YEARS AGO WHO GRADUATED FROM MORTUARY SCHOOL IN 1963.

HE SAID THE CHEMICALS WE USE TODAY ARE NOT AS HARSH AS THE 60s AND 70s.

SO I THINK THE COMPANIES THAT CREATE FORMALDEHYDES HAVE DONE A BETTER JOB OF KEEPING THEM FROM OUR EXPOSURE.

>> AND ALWAYS CHANGING STUFF, ALWAYS INTRODUCING NEW PRODUCT THAT WOULD TREAT A CERTAIN CONDITION A DIFFERENT WAY.

THE MORE THEY SEE, MAYBE THERE WILL BE A NEW COVID BLEND OR A COVID MIX, THIS IS WHAT YOU NEED TO DO WITH THE COVID PATIENT.

>> SURE.

>> THAT TYPE OF STUFF YOU GOT TO KEEP ON YOUR TOES AND BE WILLING, YOU WON'T FIND MANY FUNERAL DIRECTORS THAT WILL, BUT BE WILLING TO CHANGE.

>> OKAY, WE'VE GOT A COUPLE MINUTES LEFT HERE.

CALLER FROM HIGGINS LAKE, HOW IS THE CREMATION PROCESS ENSURED TO BE STERILE, CLEAR OF ASHES IN BETWEEN EACH BODY?

I DON'T KNOW HOW THEY CAN ENSURE THAT?

>> IT'S NEXT TO IMPOSSIBLE.

THE CREMATORIES, THEY DO THE VERY BEST THEY CAN, LET'S BE HONEST, YOU'RE CREMATING PERSON AFTER PERSON IN RETORTS, WHAT'S LEFT OVER IS THE SKELETAL REMAINS, THOSE ARE RAKED OUT, BRUSHED OUT, THEY'RE DOING THE VERY, VERY BEST.

>> AND THEY HAVE A LARGE TRAY THEY DO THEIR VERY BEST WITH.

>> THEY COLLECT THEM IN A STAINLESS STEEL TRAY EVERY TIME, AND THAT'S CLEANED.

NOBODY IS GOING TO CLIMB IN THE RETORT AND VACUUM IT OUT WHEN IT'S 400 DEGREES IN BETWEEN EACH PERSON.

>> IS THERE ANY CARE THAT GOES ALONG WITH THE ASHES WHEN YOU HAVE THEM?

>> IN TERMS OF -- SO WHEN A CREMATORY FINISHES THEIR JOB TO COMPLETION, CREMATED REMAINS ARE PROCESSED, WE PROVIDE OUR FAMILIES WITH A SMALL TEMPORARY URN, WE CALL IT, SOMETHING MORE DIGNIFIED THAN A BAG.

WHEN WE TAKE THEM BACK INTO OUR CARE, WE KEEP THEM UNDER LOCK AND KEY AT OUR FUNERAL HOME UNTIL THE FAMILY IS READY TO RECEIVE THOSE CREMATED REMAINS.

ONCE THEY ARE, WE USUALLY LIKE TO ASK THEM IF THEY HAVE A PERMANENT VESSEL, LIKE AN URN OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

WE LIKE TO MAKE THE TRANSFER FOR THEM, UNLESS THEY FIND MEANING IN DOING THAT THEMSELVES, BUT WE KEEP OURS UNDER LOCK AND KEY UNTIL THE FAMILY IS READY TO RECEIVE THEM.

WHEN THEY DO, I HAVE A SIGNOUT LOG THAT I MAKE THEM SIGN FOR BEFORE ANYBODY LEAVES.

>> LESS THAN A MINUTE.

YOU CAN PURCHASE A CREMATION PLAN IN ADVANCE?

>> SURE, YEAH, ANYBODY CAN.

>> SAME AS A FUNERAL.

>> OKAY.

ALL RIGHT.

WE ARE JUST ABOUT OUT OF TIME.

SO THANK YOU, BOTH FOR BEING HERE TONIGHT, AND SHARING YOUR EXPERTISE WITH US.

>> MY PLEASURE.

>> AND THE VIEWERS.

THANK YOU ALL AT HOME FOR WATCHING TONIGHT.

WE HOPE YOU CAN JOIN US NEXT WEEK WHEN WE ASK THE OPTOMETRISTS.

HAVE A GREAT NIGHT.