(upbeat music) - Major support for Carolina business review provided by Colonial Life, providing benefits to employees to help them protect their family, their finances, and their futures.

High Point University, the premier life skills university focused on preparing students for the world as it is going to be.

And Sonoco a global manufacturer of consumer and industrial packaging products and provider of packaging services with more than 300 operations in 35 countries.

- As we begin the fall.

And as we look at not just back to school, but back to business, we are learning that not for profits, philanthropy is becoming increasingly more critical in things like housing education, public health.

We will talk to four leaders from the 501 C3 not-for-profit world across the Carolinas in just a moment.

Stay with us.

- Gratefully acknowledging support by Martin Marietta, a leading provider of natural resource-based building materials, providing the foundation upon which our communities improve and grow.

BlueCross BlueShield of South Carolina, an independent licensee of the BlueCross and BlueShield association.

Visit us at SouthCarolinaBlues.com The Duke Endowment, a private foundation, enriching communities in the Carolinas through higher education, healthcare, rural churches and children's services.

On this edition of Carolina Business Review, Sarah Fawcett from United Way of the Midlands, Nichole Myles from the Children's Museum of the Lowcountry, Dr. Patton McDowell of PMA consulting and Walker Sanders from the Community Foundation of Greater Greensboro.

(dramatic music) - Well, welcome back to school, many kids back to school and over the last couple of weeks, and we're going to start our dialogue, but this time it's around the not-for-profit space.

During the last 18 months or so I think it's fair to say that both personal and professional lives have been through a seismic change.

Every business sector, every part of our lives seemingly has been affected.

So nonprofits too, we have congealed some nonprofit leadership that have been on this program before.

We're glad to have them back welcome to you all.

Sarah, I'm going to start with you fairness or not.

And we'll start with the idea that we really have been through some meaningful and nonstop change.

It doesn't seem to be over Sarah.

Is there a new set of rules of engagement for not-for-profits for 501 C3s when it comes to now being responsible leadership and communities.

- Yeah.

Chris, thank you very much for having me back on.

And yeah, I would say that there is, I mean, you think about all of the different types of relationships that have changed.

There's a changed relationship now between employers and employees, there's changed relationships between how employers relate to contract workers.

There, there are all kinds of, there changes in how we relate to our children's education that you just, you know, you brought up school, went back.

School is now back in session, thankfully.

And yes, I think that there is, there are new opportunities now for the nonprofit sector to really partner as we go into the recovery from the pandemic.

And I think you're going to see that in, in a lot of new ways, new ways in fundraising, new ways in deploying assets, new ways in deploying whatever the direct service of a nonprofit is.

I think this is a real opportunity for nonprofits to show their role in economic recovery.

- Patton is this a big pivot you non-profits have to make?

- I think Sarah is exactly right.

I hope the silver lining of the pandemic is the increased collaboration and non-profits that aren't willing to explore collaboration, alliances of whatever type.

I think you're going to struggle because I think funders are going to be pressed to support, you know, a limited amount, sometimes a limited number of organizations and entities Walker can certainly speak to it in the triad, but I've got to believe the funders I've spoken with are going to look for nonprofits who are willing to adapt to partner, because there's just not going to be enough to go around.

And that's going to be a challenge for the sector.

- Walker, is that a new box to be checked when not-for-profits and 501 C3s are looking to make these grants or partner that would be important to report back to the funders, this idea of the new set of, well, this, these are the things that you have to be proficient in as well.

- Yeah, I wouldn't necessarily classify it as a new setup as a new box.

I wrote it just probably a class that more as an elevated box, I think we've always kind of known the importance of collaborations.

I think this pandemic has really as Patton and Sarah so eloquently said really has highlighted the the importance of it.

And these so many non-profits are going to have to look at their business models and rethink their business models.

They're the days of a thousand person dinner for $500 a head are no longer ways you can start raising money and we need to rethink that.

And we've really learned that there are ways that we can do things virtually and, and how we leverage each other's resources, I think was really highlighted very well for nonprofits in this pandemic.

- You know, all three of you kind of go to this or at least mentioned somewhere in your comments so far early on, I might add about raising money.

How has different now for a nonprofit to raise money?

- I think it depends on the sector you're in.

I, you know, I'll follow up from the community foundation perspective.

We were really not in the fundraising business much, and I'll let Patton and Sarah deal with that.

But what we've seen is that the arts organizations have been absolutely killed, you know, their, their revenue model was ticket sales and they were shut down.

Health and human services.

Sarah can maybe speak more to this is, has done fairly well.

At least from the foundation's perspective, it's they had access to PPP.

They were on the front lines of helping raise dollars for addressing the immediate needs in the pandemic.

I would imagine, we work close with United Way.

We quickly pivoted to raise a lot of money for relief back in March, April, May of 2020, as I'm sure Patton and Sarah were very involved with as well and their communities.

And it's, the fundraising model is, is going to change from what has historically been over the last 50 years.

- Not only is the model changed and to use your term Walker, but Sarah, we mentioned before the program, you mentioned before the program, that there was not just that we had to think differently a little bit differently about fundraising as my term, but, but now this hyper competitiveness for talent that knows how to fundraise and or write grants, is that right?

- Yeah, yeah.

You know, the skills that you need to be a good fundraiser to be a good grant writer, to be a good program officer, they're transferable across industries and they're transferable across public public, private non-profit industries.

And so, as we're seeing wage pressures in across all sectors, we're seeing it in the nonprofit sector as well.

Our job loss, at least in South Carolina, and I think this is true across the region, the job loss among nonprofits was about what it was on the national level, about seven, 8%, but in the nonprofit sector, those jobs are coming back slower.

And I think part of that is because of wage pressure, you know, a nonprofit, any, any organization is going to be the best steward they can over their dollars.

Our dollars are dollars entrusted to us by folks like you.

And we want to be sure that we're doing the best that we can on limited resources.

So we're seeing a little bit of that wage, that wage inflation as well.

- Patton, go ahead.

Were you going to say something?

- No.

- Great, Patton is there, so again, my term, is there an unintended consequence here for 501 C3 in the space of philanthropy to have to raise their game?

You know, that was maybe 10 or 15 years ago.

The idea for consultants like PMA Consulting was the idea for them to be more corporate in their approach, more structured, more strategic, is this done it, or is this doing it?

Is this forcing the hands of 501 C3 to be much more like their corporate counterparts?

- Yeah, I think so.

I think Walker makes a good point.

There's still a distinction between the sectors, the arts community is having a very different view of philanthropy in some cases for survival.

And back to what Sarah said, if they're, in some cases aren't willing to collaborate, I think there are going to be many that go under, which creates a whole new set of issues for our sector, sadly, but that is something we're going to have to deal with.

But in terms of the new phase of fundraising, there's a pent-up demand, but I'm concerned that there was because of frankly elevated funding for human services organizations, now there's an expectation of all right, now it's a chance to get our capital campaign on the docket for the community of funders, in whatever region we exist.

And I'm concerned that it's not going to be successful.

And so we have to be cautious about, you know, that influx of PPP dollars and other elevated philanthropy during the pandemic, doesn't give a false sense of there's a ton of money out there because I don't think we can maintain some of the current levels even in the human services sector.

So, Walker when you talked about arts being maybe one of the most acutely hit areas, let's broaden this a little bit.

So, do nonprofits, you know, back to our first question about the idea of that there's a new set of rules of engagements or a new set of responsibilities, maybe.

All of a sudden, not all of a sudden, but do do nonprofits now find themselves at the place where they're not just the last stop or the safety net, but maybe need to be the lead around things like housing, mental health, those issues that have traditionally been very kind of prickly to manage through with so many partners.

- Well, I think, I think you're on to a really important, really long discussion.

And that is the role of nonprofits has always kind of been on the front line, but I think the pandemic really highlighted the importance of that role, but we were the, we were on the ground.

We knew where the money needed to go.

We were able to address the issues as quickly as we could, whether it was in housing, whether it was in just emergency assistance, food assistance.

We knew that the entities and the relationships that we needed, I think what it also kind of introduces, and this just kind of goes not to take the conversation in a different direction is the huge importance of nonprofits on governance.

And I use governance from the standpoint of, we recognize that nonprofits need to be operated like businesses, this is Patton's world, that what he does in his day to day world.

And then if there's not a strong board in place, it's not a strong staff in place, the nonprofits need to be able to show that they have the capacity to deliver the programs and they can have the trust of folks to invest them.

I want to kind of pivot to congratulate Sarah on her MacKenzie Scott gift.

And there were several organizations in Greensboro that got a gift as well but what she did, I hope is contagious to others is that she didn't say to Sarah and others, I want you to do this with the money.

What she did was she invested in the organizations because of their governance, but because of their capacity, because of the quality and the, of the programs that they ran, that she trusted those organizations to make the best decisions of how to invest that dollar, rather than pre-pandemic, many people would come to a nonprofit and say, I know you're the expert but this is what I want you to do with my money and I hope we can be her, her confidence and investment, and the research that she did, and these organizations across the country should send a big message that the nonprofits are on the front lines.

They know how to use the dollars the best way, and the most efficient way don't try to, because you've been successful in business, doesn't necessarily know, you know, how to give money away well, and trust those people that are in it to give that money away well for you and Mackenzie did an extraordinary job, and I hope that her gift inspires many other big thinking about making those types of investments with organizations that they trust to have strong governance, good strong boards, or very qualified staff.

- Sorry, Sarah, Walker queued that up for you.

- Well, I will say one of the, when you think about these ultra, these ultra wealthy people, you know, the billionaires that the tech billionaires, that, that have enough money that they can create social, they can, they can social engineer.

If they have a certain vision, they've got enough money to make it happen.

The thing that I appreciated about MacKenzie Scott's approach, because she also has enough money to do that, but she said, no.

She said, I, I do have things I'm interested in.

I've got causes.

I'm interested in, but I'm not going to tell them how to do it.

I'm not going to go in with my agenda.

I want them to facilitate their agenda.

I've done my homework, and I know which organizations are going to advance the causes that I care about, but I don't want to tell them how to do it.

I just want to give them the money to do it.

The other thing too, is that I hope that this is an, this is an awakening among funders, that nonprofits so many times a funder for some very good reasons wants to invest in programs.

They want to invest in new innovation.

They want to invest in the next big thing.

All very good reasons to invest in nonprofits, but the nonprofit in order to do that has to hire competitive staff.

They have to keep the lights on.

They have to invest in new technologies that we now, that are now changing the landscape of fundraising.

And so to be able to give a significant gift to an organization that you know will advance a cause that you believe in, but to allow them to do that in the way that's going to fit the community that's going to be affected and that is going to support the organization and the sustainability of the organization by letting management and the governing board decide that I hope that's a message that other funders will take too.

- And Sarah, if I can add to that, Chris, because Chris, I'm following your lead in the journalism set.

I've had a podcast during the pandemic, talking to nonprofit leaders all over the country, and I could not agree more with Sarah's point that nonprofit executives hope a good thing coming out of this pandemic is that funders will give them more autonomy, trust them to do the programming they do, and not come in and dictate where their funds are used, restricting their gift that Walker said.

I'm encouraged too and Chris talking to a friend of this program, Rhett Mabry at the Duke Endowment, who made a distinct point that yes, we're trying to be more intentional about talking to the folks on the ground if you will, who are in these communities, understand the needs, instead of trying to determine how their funds are used.

- Patton, thanks for the compliment.

Sit your sights a little bit higher.

I'm a banker disguised cleverly as maybe a journalist.

I don't know that I would use that term, but - Duly noted.

- But Walker, okay.

So we come back to you Walker in this, I, the idea that the MacKenzie Scott gift, and I wasn't, it didn't want to spend a lot of time on this, but let's just unpack this a little bit more.

Has the Mackenzie Scott gift had unintended consequence that you can see that are positive, that are making some manifest changes in the monies that will now come to 501 C3?

- We hope so.

I mean, that's the, certainly you hope inspires others start thinking about that.

I kind of used the analogy in a lot of folk I speak to I speak to when you buy stock in a company, do you have expectations that you're going to tell that CEO how to run the company?

No, you're looking for the results of that company, a nonprofit, when we're getting investments in gifts from individuals, while they're not, we're not paying out any dividend, the dividend they're getting are the impacts that we're having in the community.

I hope that the donors will start looking at what is the impact that we're having more so than trying to detract how they think they should be driving our business.

Because we don't ask, we don't ask our for-profit folks to do the same thing.

So that's a stretch I get it but I'm trying to make, trying to really push that envelope of saying, you know, I sit on both sides of the fence of raising the dollars and also making grants back out.

And I think it's, we, we at the community we were making grants, we, to a fault, will ask ourselves, we tried to tell the nonprofit how to do their business, or are we investing in their capacity and trust them to do, run the programs the way they see best around.

- Sarah let's, we've got less than 10 minutes, and I do want to unpack the idea around housing.

Real estate has been one of the bright spots, not just during the pandemic, but for the last decade, at least and we've seen very hot markets, Charleston, Greenville, Charlotte, the triangle, et cetera, that have these runaway.

And that's not an overstatement housing prices or home prices, housing affordable housing in, in a, in a town like Columbia or Richland, or the Midlands when you've got Richland county in Lexington and you've got counties around there that can be more rural.

What role is it?

Do you take a larger role when it comes to tactically leading around housing issues and what would that be?

- Well, I think there's a couple of ways.

First of all, Chris, when you have opportunities for private investment where private public, public, private partnerships, I think that's really going to be key to, to more affordable housing.

I think that non-profits are going to be taking a larger role in public private partnerships.

I think that's a definitely an opportunity that we have.

The hot housing markets have definitely, one of the benefits of the hot housing markets is that it's kind of shining a light on the affordable housing crisis.

And because of that, you are getting more attention at the local and state levels and with all of the ARPA dollars and infrastructure dollars in all, you know, all of these public dollars that are now flowing, you know, probably a once in a lifetime type of fashion.

I think we have an opportunity to really address it.

I know that with our MacKenzie Scott gift, that's going to be one area that we're going to be focusing on.

It won't be the only area, but it will be one of them.

And we hope that this is going to offer, offer some new opportunities.

- I want to interrupt you on that, but you talking, you're talking about hope for sure, but is this actionable?

Do you see this getting traction?

Is there, is it going to be real policy that comes out of this?

That that works?

- I hope so because you, you, and you brought up a good thing and a lot of it's policy, if we can make sure that we've got policies in place that are allowing for that allow for the great benefits that rising home prices bring from an economic development perspective, but also make sure that, that we're not forgetting to make the affordable end of the housing spectrum available as well, both from an investment perspective, because it's gotta be, you know, y'all, you also can't have the public sector doing all of the, be the only person carrying the weight of, of affordable housing.

If we can make it, if we can have policies in place that are going to make it more palatable for private investment or public private partnerships, then I think we can crack the code on affordable housing.

I really do.

- Patton in North Carolina, this was probably more stark than in the Palmetto state and with the recent results from the census, it showed that North Carolina had a pretty spectacular growth and so did South Carolina, but in North Carolina specifically that growth almost exclusively came from the two largest metros of course, Charlotte and the triangle, Charlotte Raleigh.

And in fact, rural North Carolina lost when you overlay the idea that the losing population in more of the rural communities on top of what we've been talking around housing, is that exacerbating an already tough situation outside of the, the urban cores?

- Absolutely right.

I hate to be pessimistic, but I think it's for these hot real estate markets to keep up with the affordable housing necessary, where I think it's going to kind of be moved toward is the peripheral communities.

And so the nonprofits in the communities outside and around the urban markets in north and South Carolina may have an opportunity here, but what it will highlight too, is public transportation because it's those communities I'm working with an organization in Kinston, which is still a ways outside of the triangle.

But I think we're going to see more and more issues where people cannot afford to live and the, the high rent district, so to speak, they're going to move outside, perhaps that's where the housing is.

And then can they commute back into kind of a hub and spoke model across the Carolinas?

Then the question becomes, can the nonprofit community provide both housing and transportation solutions, which these, of course, you know, the high rent, urban communities still need the workforce.

And so that's where I guess public transportation to me becomes a parallel topic with housing.

- I think I would add to that.

What also has been highlighted with that, I think it should go hand in hand with housing is, is, is access to high speed internet.

And many of those rural areas do not have access to high speed internet.

So therefore puts an even greater challenge on remote work possibilities for many of those communities.

And even, even with in the area of education and Guilford county, where we feel like we, we have a lot of access to high speed internet, in the lowest income communities where the housing needs are the greatest and most impactful, there were many communities did not have access to high speed internet.

We spent about $800,000 quickly to buy 10,000 laptops for children that did not even have a laptop.

And then we spent another couple of hundred thousand dollars putting wifi on buses that could be driven to neighborhoods, so the kids could even do their homework.

And so we as a society and the North Carolina, I'm assuming the same is true in South Carolina have got to begin looking at how you look at internet access as a utility and that everyone has the right to be able to have that access.

And until we get that, that level of discussion, it needs, it goes, that discussion goes hand in hand with housing and the nonprofits can play one role.

And I think the role that nonprofits would play in that is the advocacy role of really trying to lift that up as a policy discussion.

It's not something that would be privately funded.

- You know it's interesting.

Yes, Sarah I want to ask you something specifically about that.

And I know you've got a comment about that, but we've heard insiders both say on this program, but also off the record that they were disappointed that there wasn't a larger, more concerted effort.

As you just talked about around broadband to put a stake in the ground, get it funded, get the plans going when it could have been an easy win for both the state house in Columbia and also Joan Street in Raleigh.

So Sarah to you, is this something that you feel like can be a win?

And is that something that you lead the charge on?

- I definitely think it can be a win.

And I think there were really two components to it.

One is access, one is making sure that the cable is laid, the fiber is laid that, that people, that, that the availability is there.

- Well, we're just going to have to bite the bullet and lay the cables, right?

It's not going to be an efficient.

- That's exactly right.

There's not an efficient way to do that.

We just need to do it.

But the second part, and this is just as important is adoption.

It's one thing to lay the cable.

It's another thing for a family to connect to it and use it.

You know, if you go back to Tennessee valley authority days, you know, when they made electricity was seen as something that people have to have.

Today, if you're near enough to a cell phone tower, you can kind of muddle your way through.

But if you're going to really use technology, particularly, I mean, you know, education was the number one thing where we saw the gaps, but tele-health, that's another, you know, access to healthcare in rural communities is obviously a challenge and tele-health could be a big bridge to helping to helping bridge that gap.

But you have to not just have access to it.

You have to take advantage of that access.

And so I definitely think that nonprofits, I wrote an op-ed about access in conjunction with Jason McLawhon from our Columbia urban league about access back about a year ago, but it also is adoption.

And I think that nonprofits, we can advocate for the access.

Absolutely our voice can be heard along with everybody else, but I think we have a role to play when we talk about adoption, how can we work with when we are talking to people in health and human services, for example, about addressing their basic needs, how can we make sure that, that, that accessing that broadband in their home is something number one that they can afford to do and number two, that they understand the value of?

And so there's definitely an advocacy education funding.

There's all kinds of ways that I think nonprofits can play a role just to give you one example.

- In 15 seconds, go ahead Patton, you got it.

- Tying it all together, Chris, for nonprofits in the rural communities access to talent, it, it combines exactly what Walker and Sarah said, these nonprofits, aren't going to be at attract talent to Kinston or Lauren Berger, rural community, north or South Carolina.

They could, however, if the technology exists that might help keep their staff afloat.

Thank you sir, last word.

Well done, thanks Patton.

Nice to see you all, please thank you for joining us until next week.

I'm Chris William happy fall.

Happy back to school.

Good night.

- Major funding for Carolina business review provided by High Point University, Martin Marietta, Colonial Life, The Duke Endowment, Sonoco, BlueCross BlueShield of South Carolina and by viewers like you, thank you.