I also think that, you know, as a woman governor, there are ways that we can fight back.

I've not seen, frankly, a whole front of women fighting a war against this president who has been so anti-women, whether it's just defunding Planned Parenthood, to just extraditing abortion doctors, to taking away abortion services from women veterans in the VA.

I mean, and then, of course, you have funding for childcare.

So I think there is a lens through which I will want to continue this fight, but the fight is also about how we strengthen California.

And I have to really put a punctuation mark on that.

Hey, everyone from KQED in San Francisco, this is Political Breakdown.

I'm Marisa Lagos.

Today on the Breakdown, we continue our series of interviews with the many candidates vying to be California's next governor.

Today, former state controller Betty Yee.

Yee is a Democrat and her expertise is in finance.

Before becoming the state's chief financial officer, she also served on the California Board of Equalization, and she's leading on all that experience with taxes and money as she seeks the state top office.

With the promise of competent, accountable leadership.

Betty, welcome back to Political Breakdown.

Thank you, Marisa.

It's great to see you.

It's good to see again too.

We did have you on back in 2023 when you first announced this campaign.

Obviously, we're a lot closer to voters weighing in.

And so I'd love to just open with the same question I'm asking everyone, which is who are you politically and what's your vision for the state?

Sure.

Sure.

You know, politically, I will say that I've been a lifelong Democrat, but it's also as someone who's been active in politics, a grassroots Democrat.

I just really believe that politics has always been about understanding who and what we represent and to be able to deliver good outcomes for people to see improvements in their lives and in their communities.

And I think a lot of that just comes from having grown up as a daughter of Immigrants.

Having to just really be sure that those things were in place for my family.

And so this is a very crowded field, obviously.

It's difficult to break out in a state this large.

You have been campaigning for more than two years.

And I think you are still not super well-known statewide.

I know fundraising has not been as high as some other candidates.

What would your pitch be to somebody who says, I really like what you're selling here, but are you viable?

Sure.

So, you know, viability can come in all forms, but I think this is going to be a test piece about whether grassroots campaigns still are going to be successful.

And I believe they still are.

We're seeing what's happening across the country, and just a lot of people engaged, a lot of people turning out because, frankly, they're fed up.

You know, they've had it.

Things are costing more.

The affordability crisis is rampant.

As I travel to different communities around the state, I see the excitement about people wanting to, you know, just have a part in this, in these elections.

So on the ground, I think it tells a different story than what the polls may tell, but I've always been a grassroots candidate.

And so I'm, I, think this is going to be a big test.

Well, let's talk about it.

You mentioned that you're the daughter of Chinese immigrants.

You grew up here in San Francisco.

Tell us a bit about your parents' immigration story.

My parents were in a pre-arranged marriage, and when my father was 14 years old, his parents essentially kicked him out of the family village and said, look, you need to provide a better life for your future bride and your family.

There are no opportunities here.

You have a sponsor in the United States, my then-godfather, who was already here in San Francisco.

My father arrived with very little in his pocket, apprenticed in the laundry and dry cleaning business here in San Fransisco, Chinatown.

And his path to citizenship, Marisa, was He enlisted in the United States Army during World War II and became a naturalized citizen as a result of his service.

Served in active duty.

I mean, this is something out of a movie, right?

Where he didn't speak English and was sitting, like standing in a ditch, beating artillery through machine guns.

And so.

People don't know, I think, how common that story was in that era.

It really was.

For my father's generation of immigrants who came over, that was a very common path to becoming a citizen.

And then he was able to bring my mother here the year before I was born in 1956.

So are you the oldest?

I'm the second oldest.

Second oldest oldest of, I think, six kids.

And you grew up on the west side of San Francisco, Parkside.

That was a largely Irish and Catholic community at the time.

What was it like being a Chinese family of immigrants?

I have to say, Marisa, I have such fond memories of my childhood.

We had European descendants.

We had, there were only four Chinese American families in the neighborhood at the time.

It's completely different now.

And we also had a couple of families from Mexico, Armenian families.

I mean, I remember my class being just really, just my peers from all different backgrounds.

And I did not.

Feel an ounce of discrimination.

I mean, my family was so supported.

It was a community where everyone just pitched in.

Our success was their success.

And if there was anyone who was struggling, we all would rally behind them.

And so I just felt like it was really a tight-knit community from that perspective.

That's great.

So your parents run a dry cleaning business.

I'm sure you all were enlisted to work there, but I'm curious as the second oldest as a girl, like what was your kind of role both in the family and in the family business?

Sure.

My older sister is eight years older than I am, so she essentially, you know, had pretty much... She probably helped to raise a whole.

Well, she definitely got my parents started in terms of the business.

I was very facile with numbers.

And so, of course, I took care of the books for my parents.

And when I say that, it was very rudimentary.

Literally every week, my father would hand me a cigar box of the receipts, and I'd add up what our expenses were, and we'd figure out how much we had brought in.

And it was eye-opening.

I I was eight years old at the time when I began that, and... Just saw many weeks where we really were struggling.

We couldn't put that carton of milk on the table where we had to just really do everything we can to scrape by, but we never knew it.

I mean, I like to say we may have been poor, but we were rich in values.

And so that experience obviously translated into much more interaction with bankers and vendors and just really every aspect of running a small business.

You know, I know we talked about this in the past, but I want to ask you, your first real political experience was testifying against a new policy to send folks to desegregate schools to bus kids across town.

One of your younger siblings was going to be on those busses.

And I know your family was opposed, like a lot of folks in their position, they owned a business, they didn't have a vehicle.

I know that was a really important moment for you just to like sort of learn about your voice and about democracy.

I wonder though when you look back now on the policy, like if you would still be on the same side that you were at the time.

Probably not.

I mean, look, I was speaking on behalf of the four Chinese American families and each had a similar circumstance.

Our elementary school was within a two block walking distance from the family business.

So it was going to create a hardship if, should an emergency arise with my little sister.

And that was my statement at 13 years old.

I made the statement that it would create a hardship if an emergency should arise.

The parents would have to take public transportation for well over two hours to bring their child home.

And everything was fine.

Look, I went back and sat in my seat in the auditorium and the bussing program lasted the better part of three decades and more, right?

It is interesting though, because you're saying that you're you felt your neighborhood was actually already pretty diverse.

Yes, it could have been more diverse.

I mean, look, I don't remember really having any interaction with, you know, Black students, Black peers until I went to junior high school.

So, but I would have, I mean certainly looking back, that would not be the position I would take.

Well, I know you went to UC Berkeley for undergrad, you got a master's in public administration at Golden Gate University, and you ended up eventually in Santa Cruz really advocating around healthcare.

What prompted the turn into public service?

Was that something you saw coming?

Yes, I think the experience at 13 stayed with me and it was just the idea that I was a voice for someone.

And it really did begin my appetite for just seeing how politics works.

Neither of my parents voted, registered to vote.

My father was very interested in politics.

I remember as a child watching the national conventions with him on television when they to be on, you know, just.

Television, and that's how I learned about the electoral college and learned about the states.

But if I had to characterize him, I would say that he was a very Goldwater Republican.

But it was something that I just felt was something for good, that you can be an advocate, that politics in its real pure form was about just how people can be part of a process that can hopefully end up with policies to uplift their lives.

All right, we're going to take a short break.

When we come back, we will talk about former State Controller Betty Yee's service.

She is running for governor in California.

You're listening to Political Breakdown from KQED News.

Welcome back to Political Breakdown.

I'm Marisa Lagos here today with Democratic candidate for governor Betty Yee.

She was formerly State Controller.

And let's talk a little bit about your public service.

So unlike many of the other candidates in this race, you have not been a legislator.

You worked for legislators in both Congress and the state House.

You first ran for office as a member of the Board of Equalization.

Not like something a lot of people are talking about at home.

What made you decide to run for that position specifically?

I, because of my knowledge of budgets and tax policy, it was really an office that I felt prepared to serve in.

And, you know, prior to my running for any office, I had had quite a bit of experience in the legislature when working on fiscal committees and policy committees.

You might learn more being a staffer in some ways than being a lawmaker.

No, no.

Exactly.

No, no, absolutely, absolutely.

But, you know, just saw the mechanics of how all that happened.

And when I decided to run for the board, I felt very qualified to do it because I had actually written a lot of tax policy and had to think about how those laws were implemented.

And the Board of Equalization at the time was also the tax appeals body.

So we heard a lot appeals against the state of California from businesses, individuals who felt that the state had not treated them fairly.

So, it was a position that I really served for almost a decade on, and it was also a position where I saw many who were interested in running for it looking at it as a stepping stone.

I mean, at that time, I just was looking at to broaden my experience in tax policy.

Yeah.

You then went on to spend two terms of State Controller, which is basically the state's chief financial officer.

While they're one of the things you really cite on the campaign trail is identifying seven billion in improper spending.

What does that mean?

And what if a controller does that?

Like, is that money that the state gets back?

Is this sort of good policy moving forward?

It is basically the green eye shade that looks at every payment that is going to be made from the state coffers.

All of those audits, I think we found of the $7.3 billion, about close to $4 billion, that wasn't authorized to be spent.

So departments making claims for payment.

So that's before it was actually spent.

Right, right.

So departments are making claims from payment, but there was no authority to pay because the legislature had not authorized the appropriation for that purpose.

Or it was being asked to be paid out of a source that was not authorized.

So that would be over half of that amount.

We also did audits of local governments as well.

And so at that time, we were unwinding a lot of redevelopment projects.

And so some of those dollars had to be returned as well with the unwinding of projects.

And then, I would say, very little fraud, but just a lot of unauthorized spending.

Interesting.

So what could you then take from that and apply to the governor's office when it comes to accountability?

Well, I think what we can take from that is understanding where our dollars go.

I think the accountability that I'm focused on right now is really about the relationship between the governor and the legislature, that we have budget hearings that approve appropriations, the governor signs a budget, but then pretty much we don't really question, you know, how have those dollars been used?

Are we getting the outcomes that we want?

And I will say, Marisa, this is not a surprise.

When we have years of budget surpluses, I mean, we get to fund everything.

And so why do we need to have that kind of scrutiny?

But, you know, here we are with the deficit situation now.

And I do think that by not having that discipline of accountability, we have less options in terms of just understanding where we can cut and not really hurt Californians.

Well, let's talk about the budget, because you are running, as California faces, huge fiscal challenges.

I mean, not just related to our kind of ongoing structural challenges, but because of what we've seen come out of the Trump administration and this Congress.

I wonder if you would come into this office like wanting to push for wholesale changes to our tax and revenue system, or are you mostly thinking about it in terms of where a governor could cut in order to stay within the budget?

I think we're gonna have to do both.

We have a deep structural problem, which I'll talk about in a moment.

But look, the looming healthcare cuts are real and people are going to lose coverage, lose medical coverage.

And so just how do we prepare for that?

I believe the deficit is actually larger than what the governor is assuming.

I do think the AI stocks are probably overheated right now with a lot of upfront investments.

But having said that we have.

Californians who are really anxious about losing their health care, and so we are gonna need to pay attention to that.

We're gonna need to pay to funding our obligations for K-12 education and community colleges.

So what I like to do is actually just to kind of come clean, you know, really have a ledger that the public can see about what our obligations are and begin to have a really frank conversation with the legislature about how are we gonna prioritize this in terms of near-term needs.

And then what do we have to do to just really change the structure of our revenue system to where we can meet more of these needs and have more stable revenue?

This is the thing.

Our revenue system is very progressive, but a lot of our income is reliant on stock market performance.

Right, so how could you do that then without, you know, essentially burdening the most low income and middle income earners?

Because we do have a progressive tax system and it is really heavily dependent on the wealthiest people in this state.

Sure.

Sure, it is.

You know, there might be some ways that we can look at.

So the two most progressive taxes, right, income tax and property taxes to some extent.

And so, you know, maybe there's some interplay there.

But I think what we want to do is to be sure that we are not putting the burden on those who are the least able to shoulder it.

But at the same time, we see what the federal government is doing with respect to the billionaires and the corporations as well.

I mean, a lot of the tax cuts and why we're even talking about healthcare cuts was to fund the federal tax cuts.

And so are we actually paying just multiple times over to be sure that our billionaires and corporations are in a better tax position?

So I'd want to take a look at that a little bit more, but obviously don't want to have the impact of where we have those people also leave the state.

I mean this Yeah, I mean, that's obviously a debate that is raging right now.

We have this proposal for a billionaires tax, a one time five percent assessment of people's entire sort of equity.

Where do you stand on that?

I am not in favor of it.

Look, I'm not afraid to tax billionaires.

I mean, I ruled against them when I was on the Board of Equalization.

So I totally understand where this proposal comes from, but it's one time.

And I think the other thing I want to say to just the listeners is that we are going to be approaching voters again to extend the temporary tax increases that are part of our revenue base now that expire in 2030.

And so how do we make the case for that for any other tax proposals?

This all has to make sense in terms of how they interact, how they work, how stable the revenue is.

And I talk about stability a lot because we have the ability to borrow when we have budget deficits as well, but that borrowing comes at a very high premium if we don't have stable revenue to pay back the debt service.

I wonder, I mean, it does not sound like to me then you would plan on coming in on day one or month one and say, okay, this is my like proposal for overhauling this entire system.

But, you know, there are things we've been debating for years, like what about proposition 13, which obviously holds property taxes at the level, roughly at the levels at which you bought the home.

You know, there's been a lot of push on the left to split off commercial properties from that, called the split roll.

Is that something you would consider?

I think that's a consideration, but just within the residential property realm, I mean, there's a lot of inequities.

You know, it's the pre-1978 assessed properties and post-1979 assessed properties.

I do not want to assess people out of their homes by any means.

This housing is expensive enough, but I think I want to look at the entire tax system to see what the interaction and the mix of taxes need to be to bring that stability.

What about just in general, you know, year one, if you come in, whether or not this billionaire pass, you cut tax passes, we have a big deficit.

The bulk of spending is health care and K-12 education.

Where would you look to cut?

What I would do is look at how we can be better at how we provide health care.

This is something as I've traveled the state, Marisa, that I see just so many unique needs in different regions of the state.

And the idea that we have, you know, let's say it's Medi-Cal, we have one program that's going to accommodate all those needs.

And frankly, the one thing we haven't talked about is how do we grow the economy?

I think how do you grow the economic to just build some fiscal resilience and generate revenue of our own?

To where we can withstand, you know, just some of these cuts.

And this is not the first time we've had frontal cuts, but the magnitude, obviously, is just quite daunting.

But when I talk about growing our economy, I always start with, you know, what do we have to work with right in front of us that can actually be put towards, you know solving an issue in a particular area, and can have an economic impact?

So for example, I've been to parts of the state where health care is a huge need, access as a future need.

And there's been an outcry from these very communities, can we increase access by growing the healthcare workforce right here?

We have talent here, can we have workforce dollars that are directed here where we can grow the workforce here, where we could actually reimagine what healthcare can look like here because we know in the Central Valley, the state can't keep bailing out full-scale hospitals, full-service hospitals, but can we the guarantee of having emergency services of primary healthcare?

at the ready where we have providers there from the community who understand the needs of the community, maybe having culturally appropriate care and language care.

So I think those are things that I would want to look at.

If you're just joining us, you're listening to Political Breakdown from KQED News.

I'm Marisa Lagos.

My guest today is Democratic candidate for governor, Betty Yee.

You've talked about re-imagining our healthcare system.

Do you support a single-payer system?

You know, I do think that there are some merits to what I would have liked to have done and I would've done, but I'm not sure that that's gonna be on the table at this point, is pilot what that could look like.

I think there's a lot of misinformation about what a single payer health care system means.

How could you pilot that?

Well, Well, is there a way to cabin off, you know, a population of people, of California, to look at how we can finance it through a single state agency?

I'm not sure that we can do anything now with probably the lack of success in getting the federal waivers to be able to use our federal dollars that way, but I would like to see if we could have piloted it to see whether there are gonna be additional costs that we're going to have to raise taxes to cover.

When you take the insurance industry out of it, it says to me that we're gonna have to figure out how to fill that gap and that hole.

And so, but rather than transitioning our whole healthcare system into that now, is there a way just to kind of identify what those issues are so we can just talk about what the magnitude of what we're going to have to do is gonna be.

Yeah, well could could be on your desk if you were elected.

That's okay.

This is there's a bill.

I know there is I support moving in that direction, but I think there are a lot of moving pieces that people don't understand in terms of how we get to a system where people can have greater access and can have no co-pays.

I mean, there's a lot that's guaranteed in a single-payer system that's been proposed, but I do think there's going to be some unintended consequences.

Well, I know affordability more broadly is another focus of yours.

And I wonder like what you see as the governor's role in that.

You know, I think for me, when I think about affordability, I back up a little bit, and that is, you know, we have a widening wealth gap in California.

And when we look at, you now, who's falling behind in terms of just the ability to move ahead, to be in jobs that pay a living wage, and they have the supports to be able to be working in those jobs.

Obviously, our Black and brown communities are falling behind, but it's also now creeping into the middle class of California.

And so there are two things that I think we can do.

One is how do we prepare our workforce for the jobs of today and tomorrow?

A lot more of it is very digitally oriented, certainly with AI becoming more prominent in the workplace.

How do we our prepare our learners for those jobs that when they get out of college, they have an opportunity to be able to work in them.

It's also the work supports.

And I just have to say, Marisa, if I read one more article about how women are leaving the workforce because of the lack of affordable child care.

I mean, this is the other piece that I think the state government can be helpful with, and that is how do we make sure that those supports like child care, family care, elder care, and even health care, that those needs are actually being met so that people are able to participate in the force much more robustly.

I wonder what your approach would be to the Trump administration.

You said you hope to match, if not exceed, the pushback that we've seen under our current governor and administration.

What does that look like?

And are you talking more substantively, like the many lawsuits, or are we talking more the kind of social media battles we've see our current governor engage in?

Well, all of the above.

Look, the lawsuits have been... California has led and certainly has been cooperating with other state attorneys generals with just really pushing back against the Trump administration.

And I think with a great deal of success, that will continue.

That will continue, I mean, I know next up, they're already talking about voting rights.

And so I think that's gonna be a major focus going into these midterms and certainly into 2028.

But I also think that as a woman governor, there are ways that we can fight back.

I've not seen, frankly, a whole front of women fighting a war against this president who has been so anti-women, whether it's just defunding Planned Parenthood, to just extraditing abortion doctors, to taking away abortion services from women veterans in the VA.

I mean, and then of course, funding for childcare.

So, I think there is a lens through which I will want to continue this fight.

The fight is also about how we strengthen California.

And I have to really put a punctuation mark on that.

You know, this is a very crowded field, as I've mentioned.

We talked about polls earlier.

I wonder if those numbers don't move, if you feel like, you know, this is really long shot candidacy in the weeks and months to come.

Does success only look like winning or is it about influencing the debate?

It's definitely about influencing the debate.

I think I bring a different kind of lens to this, and I'll go back to where we started on this.

I do think this is a test about whether grassroots campaign is going to still be successful here in California.

Look, I am not, and really up until this time and viability, as you talk about viability.

My poll numbers inched up a little bit, but with the field being crowded, this is a wide open race.

The biggest chunk of the electorate that's being polled is undecided.

And I get it.

I mean, look, people are just trying to figure out how to get through every day right now with the onslaught of what's coming from Washington, with just how they're gonna get dinner ready, how they gonna get their kids to school.

I mean just everything is just so on at high anxiety level, at the kitchen table.

And so when I look at this race, it is about, can we... And I feel like as a grassroots candidate going to the community, spending days at a time in communities, understanding these issues and what people are facing, that that direct voter engagement has meant something.

And it's always for me about understanding deeply who and what I represent.

So this is not for me a candidacy where I'm going to be well-resourced by any means.

I'm not a billionaire.

I'm part of the Billionaire Boys Club.

I mean, I'm a grassroots candidates and people invest in my campaign.

And so every dollar I've gotten has been from individual donors, but I'll just say that I think my ability is about, yes, shaping the discourse in this race about what the priority issues are, but it's also just really taking it to the community level.

This race, up until this point, has been called by the pundits and the insiders because nobody's been paying attention.

I mean, there's speculation about whether the former vice president was going to be, speculation about a US senator was going come in, speculation about whoever was going to come in.

And so right now, I think there is now a focus on it, and so.

And in some ways, it's a restart.

Your slogan is competent and accountable leadership.

Do you feel like we have that right now?

I think we have competent leadership.

I don't think we have accountable leadership.

I think it has been one where people, those who are serving, obviously know how government works.

They understand, I think, also how our fiscal systems and budgets work.

But it's almost as if once the decisions are made, there's not a revisiting of like what's actually happened.

And I think the public deserves to know.

Look, I always say in my line of work in public finance and certainly as the Controller of the state, it's not our money, right?

I mean, we're the stewards of all of our dollars.

And so the public deserve to know, and so when I talk about accountable leadership, I mean I really do have this thought that on day one, I'm gonna produce a spreadsheet about like, here are our obligations that we still have not met yet, and what are we gonna prioritize in terms of what we do in the near term as we also consider how we hopefully can reform our revenue system.

Alright, before I let you go, we're ending with one question to all the Governor candidates.

Where would you take an out of state friend to give them a taste of California?

Oh gosh, too many places to choose from.

Okay, the Pacific Ocean.

Any particular entry point there?

Any particular beach?

You know, well, I got married at the Cliff House, so I have a soft spot in my heart right here in San Francisco, but I have taken many people to the ocean and it is a sight to behold.

I just love seeing their expressions.

All right, former state Controller, candidate for governor, Betty Yee.

Thank you so much for coming in.

Thank you.

Great to see you again.

All right.

That is going to do it for Thursday, February 12th.

Political breakdown is a production of KQED.

Our engineer today is Jim Bennett, our producers Izzy Bloom, and our video team is Alex Tran and Matt Morales.

You're going to be able to find all of our interviews for Governor in the podcast feed in the coming weeks.

And you can also watch them on the KQED News YouTube channel.

We'll be posting a lot more content there this year in general.

For today, I'm Marisa Lagos.

Thanks for being here.