Narrator> Making It Grow is brought to you in part by Certified South Carolina.

This cooperative effort among farmers, retailers and the South Carolina Department of Agriculture helps consumers identify foods and agricultural products that are grown, harvested or raised right here in the Palmetto State.

McLeod Farms in McBee, South Carolina, family owned and operated since 1916.

This family farm offers seasonal produce, including over 40 varieties of peaches.

Wesley Commons, a full service continuing care retirement community located on more than 150 wooded acres in Greenwood, South Carolina.

Additional funding provided by the South Carolina Farm Bureau Federation and Farm Bureau Insurance and Boone Hall Farms.

♪ Opening Music ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ Amanda> Good evening, and welcome to Making It Grow .

We sure are glad that you can join us tonight.

I am Amanda McNulty, and I'm a Clemson Horticulture Agent.

And I get to come over here with my friend Terasa Lott, who's now the Midlands District Director, but she's my co-host and Terasa helps us with so many things.

Terasa, what's happening out in your... y'all been keeping that rhubarb going.

Terasa> It's looking pretty sad, unfortunately.

But high hopes, fingers crossed that it will come back next year and we can make some pie.

But things are really gearing up in the Extension world.

We're in September, so that means all things fall will be here.

Fairs, lots of fairs going on, and a brand new year for 4-H.

So all of our 4-H agents are excited about working with youth, and helping them to get all those fair projects, all the livestock and things going.

Amanda> I'm going to the Orangeburg Fair, to talk to some people there.

And, I just love to go and look at the animals.

It's so much fun.

Terasa> Me too.

That was probably my favorite aspect of fairs.

I know a lot of people go for the rides, but I always enjoyed the animals as well.

Amanda> And I like the French fries that you put that, malt vinegar on, they're pretty good too.

(laughter) Lots of fun things to do at the fair.

Terasa> Yes.

Amanda> Yeah, yeah.

And Rob Last, you are the Commercial Horticulture Agent up in Lexington and environs.

Rob> That's correct.

Yes.

Amanda> And I think, for the fresh market brassica production, y'all are like, the biggest people in the world or some fool thing.

I mean, the country.

Rob> We are certainly, the biggest leafy greens producer in the state and potentially in the, certainly, in the eastern seaboard as well.

Once you start going out west and you do find some much bigger growers of leafy greens as well.

Amanda> Well, and one thing is you've got those really sandy soils, but, that means the water drains well.

Rob> Yes.

It's a double edged sword, Amanda.

It means we very seldom suffer from waterlogging because we've got free draining soils.

However, that can have a knock-on impact on requirement for irrigation because they're much more prone to drought.

The other, drawback we have to very deep sandy soils is we don't have the cation-exchange capacity or that nutrient holding capacity- Amanda> you don't have any organic matter.

Rob> So yeah.

So nitrogen particularly, and potassium will have a tendency to leach through the soil profile.

So management of those nutrients is really critical.

Amanda> I bet y'all can, add those through your irrigation system.

Rob> Absolutely.

Yeah.

Fertigation is a really good way to do that.

And spoon feed the plants as we're going through relevant to the development stage of the plant.

Amanda> And you don't have to run the tractor back and forth.

Rob> That's a big benefit as well, in this day and age with labor and diesel prices- Amanda> I tell you... (laughter) well thank you, for everything you do so that we can have those wonderful collard greens.

Rob> My pleasure.

Amanda> Okay and Mary Vargo, you are now at the South Carolina Botanical Garden, and you've even had, have a title.

You are the Extension and Outreach Garden Manager.

Mary> Yeah.

Amanda> Good luck managing, Extension people.

Mary> I've done a little bit of that in my former career, but, yeah, so I'm at the garden now.

It's almost been a year now, so it's been a fun time getting used to all the garden areas that I'm managing and getting to know the volunteers.

And I love the students that come every semester, get to know them.

Amanda> You have some kids who get credit for coming out there.

Mary> Yeah, yeah.

So we, we hire a bunch of student workers.

So some of them are in the horticulture field, some of them are not at all.

Some of them are engineers or, art majors or, all walks of life.

But, yeah, I have some, two new students starting with me this new semester.

And getting them accustomed to things and getting to know them is really fun, to be able to teach them.

Amanda> I'm so glad, it is fun when you have some new people to talk to.

Mary> Yeah, no they, being a millennial myself and them being Gen Z, it's really interesting to hear the new terms they're saying and stuff like that.

Sometimes I feel really old, but they teach me some new things, so that's fun.

Amanda> Good for you.

I need somebody to teach me, I tell you that... And Trent Miller, we had such a good, you're up at the South Carolina Botanical Garden, too.

And you're the Natural Heritage Garden Manager, and we just had the best time coming up and learning about carnivorous plants with you.

That was so much fun.

But y'all have lots and lots of special areas that represent, different parts of the state.

Trent> Yeah, we have a, a display garden that goes all the way from the coast to the mountains to basically encounter most of our major ecosystems and habitats that we have in this state, which is quite a lot of them.

Amanda> And, I think one thing is, the botanical garden is on a slope, and I think that helps y'all establish some of these different things, doesn't.

Trent> Yeah, we definitely take advantage of, of the topography and, and just the, the natural layout of the, of the garden.

And we also are blessed with some original soil, out of the garden that didn't erode away.

So we were able to establish a really nice prairie over there, so that's, some great things.

(laughter) Amanda> Ah well, and a little bit later we're going to show y'all, when we made a trip down to the Brassica Field Day, and that was really an exciting day.

Brassicas again, expand on that for us Rob.

Rob> So Brassicas is the family term that encompasses a lot of our leafy, leafy vegetables.

So cauliflower, collards, kales and mustards would all come into that group- Amanda> broccoli, is that one?

Rob> Yes.

Amanda> Broccoli.

Rob> Yeah.

And usually, they're all part of the cruciform, Cruciferae vegetable group, which means the flowers have the shape of the cross.

Amanda> Okay.

Yeah.

Well, anyway, what would we do without collard greens?

I'm trying to get Edward to like kale but... Mary> Make some kale chips with him.

I like, those are good, no.

(laughter) Terasa> You could make a creamed version, so you can do creamed kale, which is kind of like creamed spinach, and not sort of healthy, but maybe ease him into it- Mary> ways to disguise it, yeah Rob> Kale and kiwi smoothie.

Mary> Yeah, that sounds good.

Amanda> I want to put it in my salad, because I like it.

But anyway, 53 years, still can't get him to eat kale.

All righty.

Terasa, usually you have some beautiful gardens of the week.

Some that will, usually they're beautiful, some of them are just fun.

Terasa> Beautiful, fun, there are lots of adjectives that we could use.

The main thing to highlight is, this is what you are doing in your yards, your gardens around the state, sometimes captured in a beautiful place which South Carolina is fortunate to have many, including the South Carolina Botanical Garden.

So let's take a look.

We start with John and Jody Allen in Clemson, and they have a brightly colored patch of different vinca, which really perform well in the dog days of summer.

And so the common name is vinca, but not to be confused with the vinca species that are invasive.

This is actually a different genus altogether.

From Jimmy Todd in Laurens, we have our state butterfly that's the Eastern Tiger Swallowtail, and it happens to be visiting some abelia flowers.

Kathleen Watkins shared Black Swallowtail Caterpillars on her parsley, and she noted that the caterpillars and the parsley are all gone now.

Those little caterpillars, The Very Hungry Caterpillar book is accurate, in terms of their appetite, right?

From Anissa Martin, A container of torenia, or some people call it wishbone flower.

She reported, there were other flowers in the container at one time, but now the torenia has taken over and it's just, it's like this giant mass of flowers.

It looks really pretty.

And last but not least, Rebecca Milford shared, a red morning glory that is rambling up a fence.

And, from what I understand, this is native for certain, to Mexico and possibly part, portions of the Southeastern United States.

Although some people are challenging whether or not it truly is native.

But such a delicate little flower, red with kind of a yellow throat.

Amanda> Well, I'm sure those geneticists will hop right on it, and they'll probably give it a new name too.

Terasa> That's right.

Amanda> That seems to be what they enjoy doing.

Well, thanks so much to everybody who sent them in.

And, I think you let people know when you need more of them.

Terasa> We do.

So we put out a call for "Gardens of the Week" on our Facebook page and try to make it simple.

All you have to do is post your photo in the comments.

It is better if they are taken, longways or horizontal so that they're big on your screen.

Amanda> Okay, well, I bet you've had some people who've sent questions to you Terasa.

And maybe this, our distinguished panel can help.

Terasa> Yes.

I think that is one of the things that Extension is known for, is we receive questions and we try to help people find the answers.

So Dominick in Cayce sent us some, a picture and said, can you tell me anything about this collection I found in my garage?

So thank goodness we have a photo to go along with it.

Otherwise it would be a pretty random kind of a question.

(laughter) Amanda> Who knows what's in garages?

Well, Rob, you've looked at this and what's going on?

Rob> That's, that's a really interesting one.

These Nasco collections were actually designed as part of the Agricultural Education Program.

Nasco believe it or not, are still in existence, and still making certain products for agricultural education.

What we have here is, the s, series 21, which they had several different series covering seeds from various different crops and going out to weeds as well.

So they had said, grass weed collections and all that sort of good stuff.

This one, this particular one, is relevant to South Carolina because it's all of the lima beans and beans that we used to grow, historically.

<Okay> So you get the different colors and textures of the different beans.

So yeah, really cool find, quite unusual find as well.

Amanda> Isn't that something?

Mary> The colors are so beautiful on some of those beans.

that's just a work of art to just look at some of those.

Amanda> You know, we... grew up eating butter beans, which are smaller, and then some people call them lima beans.

And then there's a Fordhook lima bean that I think is very popular in some places.

Rob> Yeah.

I mean, the beans and the edible, edible legumes are really a very diverse group when you, when we start getting down to it.

I mean, yes, we know butter beans, lima beans in the south here, but you start going further afield and you start coming into lentils- Amanda> -Oh Rob> peas as well, dried peas.

For those of you familiar with English and British fish and chips, a companion was always mushy peas.

Amanda> come on!

Rob> They were dried, large blue peas.

So we then stew and create kind of a, peas pudding basically.

Amanda> Yeah.

Come on.

Mary> I had a butter bean hummus at the State Farmer's Market off Rutherford Road in Greenville.

Because I've, growing up we ate lima beans, but they always weren't my favorite.

But having them as a hummus instead of chickpeas, it was very good.

I couldn't tell the difference.

So trying to get your husband, to maybe eat some butter beans you could make some hummus.

Amanda> Now he'll eat a butter bean... (laughter) Butter beans and rice I mean, that's what people, you know, our part of the world just grew up on.

Yeah, yeah, butter beans and rice, and they are absolutely delicious.

Mary> Very good.

Amanda> Okay, well, that was fun.

Thank you.

Rob> My pleasure.

Terasa> Well that was sort of a mystery.

And I think we may have another mystery to solve.

Amanda> Okay.

Terasa> Grace wrote it, wrote us from Traveler's Rest.

She said there's a tree in my yard that makes these weird, bumpy fruits.

They're all over the place.

Do you know what kind of tree it is?

And thankfully, we have some images to go along with that as well.

Amanda> Well, Mary, do you have any idea what's going on?

Mary> Yes I do, growing up actually, we used to race BMX growing up, so we would go, the whole family, you know, I'm one of seven, we would go to this racetrack in Simpsonville, South Carolina.

And one day we were driving past this house and we saw all these fruits on the ground, green large lumpy fruits.

And one day my dad stopped and he was like, "told my brother, run out there and get a fruit really fast, in this person's yard."

So he went and got it, and we were just so amazed at what this fruit could be.

Amanda> I bet y'all wanted to taste it.

Mary> Yeah, we want it, we couldn't crack it open.

I mean, this is what it looks like.

I brought some from the garden.

But as a kid, we just, it was such a mystery to us.

It looks so exotic.

You're not sure what it is?

But then as I got older and got into plants and learning how to ID things, I found out that this is called an Osage orange.

The scientific name is Maclura pomifera.

And it's a native tree, native to, I think we said Oklahoma in, that area or Arizona Amanda> There's a river valley area down there- Mary> -where it originated.

And so, an ancient tree that's been around in our country for a while.

I think the, the animals that used to eat it were something like mammoths or- Trent> Giant sloths.

Mary> Yeah.

So those would disperse the seed.

So now it's kind of everywhere all over the United States and definitely in the South.

But it's, the fruit is- Amanda> -it's awful.

Mary> Yeah.

Well, it's, it can be- if you use it, Amanda> you are gonna make hummus out of it?

(laughter) Mary> Squirrels love it, other animals enjoy it.

It's a male and female tree.

So you'll only find fruit on the female tree.

So you might have a male.

If you do have a male tree, you won't of course, see those fruits.

But it does have large spines on it.

So be careful, if you're, in the yard or doing some pruning and stuff like that.

But farmers used to actually use this tree back in the day to create a natural hedge.

So for cattle- Amanda> oh, because of the thorns Mary> Because of the thorns before barbed wire was... <Available> Mary> Yeah, yeah.

So, it's a useful tree.

And even the Native Americans, back in the day, would use the wood.

It's really great wood.

Using for bows and arrows.

Amanda> And one of the names is bois d'arc.

B-O-I-S D apostrophe A-R-C for, because it was so well known for making fabulous arrows and things, I guess it must have had some resilience and, things that just made it perfect.

Mary> Definitely.

So I mean, it's a, it's a tree that's been in our history for a while in the US, and it definitely makes these interesting fruits.

I've seen people around Halloween time, because it fruits from September to October, even into November.

So people use them for Halloween displays, calling them, that they look kind of like brains or something fun like that.

Yeah.

So they're fun.

They're pretty hard to crack open, but usually you'll see just a bunch of them in your yard.

Amanda> If you have one of the female trees.

Mary> If you have one of the female trees.

So, yeah.

Mystery solved.

Terasa> If you want people asking you questions, plant one in your yard, right?

Mary> Yeah, exactly.

Maybe you'll have some kids running in and out of, grabbing some for show and tell Terasa> From over here.

When you had it sitting still, it almost, you know, we were talking about broccoli and it almost looks like a little head of broccoli without the stem.

Mary> Yeah, very, very interesting fruit.

But yeah, it's a very interesting tree.

Amanda> Well, thank you so much.

I'm so glad you picked one up and that y'all have one in the garden.

Mary> No problem.

Amanda> Okay.

All right Mrs. Terasa, Terasa> Let's see if we can help Miriam in Clemson.

She says I've seen plants called "air plants."

What are they and what type of care do they need?

I know exactly what she's talking about, because on a recent trip to a big box store, it seems to be kind of like the new fad, our "air plants."

So, good question.

Amanda> Well, I think most plants need some air, but, I don't know what an air plant... Can you give us some information on this, please?

Trent> Definitely.

Yeah.

So air plants are Tillandsias, usually if they're, there silvery ones that you see in the, in the stores that are marketed as air plants, but they're all part of the Bromeliad family, along with pineapples and Spanish moss and other things that, are really showy.

And so they're all epiphytes, which means they grow in trees or sometimes lithophytes, meaning they grow on rocks and stuff.

So they don't need soil usually, to grow.

They actually get water either from rainfall in their leaves- Amanda> How does a pineapple fit in there?

Trent> So the pineapple does grow on the ground... but that's its own little genus.

Some of them do live on the ground, but most of them do live in trees or rocks.

Amanda> Well.

Trent> So yeah, we've got a collection of some Tillandsias over here.

This is another Tillandsia.

Amanda> Tillandsia.

Trent> Yeah.

Tillandsia is the genus that Spanish moss is in.

Amanda> Okay.

Tillandsia usneoides.

Looks like Usnea.

Trent> Yeah, yeah, that's old man's beard.

Yeah.

And it's one of the ones that actually gets water from, like, it traps it with these little scales or hairs that are on them, which is why they're kind of a gray cast.

Sometimes they'll collect it in the crown.

But they have these weird little flowers.

This is also a Tillandsia, this one does collect it more in the, the crown of the plant.

It has really showy flowers.

They do all have like three parted flowers.

A lot of times they are... purple or something, but sometimes they can be red or in Spanish moss' case, green.

And you might see this one around in the woods, or not in the woods, but in landscapes around in the Lowcountry.

This is one that's native to the US, not historically native to South Carolina, but it has come up, to our state through landscapes.

Amanda> Is that the one they call ball moss?

Trent> It is ball moss.

Amanda> And I've heard that when they get trees from Florida and bring them up to Charleston to plant, that's how it's gotten spread up here.

Right?

Trent> Yeah.

and you can also, I don't know if they could get this on camera, but, there's some little babies right here, And they will, they will spread.

And this one has spread just on this stick.

I've made this... three years ago?

And it's just a piece of mountain laurel.

And so, yeah, that little baby has come since then.

Mary> Well, do you spray it with water or, Trent> In the summertime, I just leave it outside and let the... Yeah, I live at the base of the mountains, it's really humid.

Amanda> Oh, Ok I was gonna say, we had some droughty days.

Trent> Definitely.

But I do spray it with water, in the winter time, I'll just put it in the shower.

Amanda> And I've heard that in places where there's lots and lots of Spanish moss, that sometimes when it's in bloom, you can even smell it.

That the fragrance, can be quite lovely.

Trent> Yes.

It is a very floral, herbal fragrance.

And it's, it's really nice, honestly.

Just stick your nose up in some that's on the tree.

I wouldn't stick my nose into something on the ground, but yeah, it's, it's actually pretty nice.

Amanda> And I use Spanish moss sometimes when I'm doing arrangements, Mary.

And, people say, oh, it's full of red bugs.

Well, if you get it off the ground, there might be some but if you get it off the tree... And so they tell me that they put it in the oven and I go, that's just crazy.

If you really are worried about it, put it in the freezer.

And if it had anything on it, that'll take care of it, but it's not going to kill the plant and then you can bring it out and... and if in some places Terasa, you have to be kind of near a water source.

And it will, it'll live in your yard.

There's a few places in Orangeburg that are near the river where it just does beautifully.

And I have also heard that sometimes and none of the, we, we always tell people to get a certified arborist, but there are some people who go to places, and the trees are just completely filled with, Spanish moss.

And people tell them that it's going to kill their tree and it needs to be thinned out.

And so they get some giant bucket up there and it's just completely crazy.

And you can grow it on a wire fence, yeah.

Trent> Yeah I mean these do like more sun, than many people would expect, which is probably why in a declining tree you see more Spanish moss because there's more sun.

And also that's how you keep them alive in your house, Give them more sun than you might give, I don't know a peace lily or something like that.

Amanda> Yeah, yeah, well, I just think what you've, where do you keep that?

Trent> Outside in the summer.

And then I put it in my greenhouse in the wintertime.

Or when I didn't have one.

I just put it in the bathroom.

Amanda> In the bathroom.

Trent> Yeah.

Amanda> Well, it's really cool.

What a fun thing to have in your house.

And that one is so exotic looking.

Trent> Yeah, this is something that I got on clearance at a big box store, and normally people would just throw them away when they, stop flowering because the center dies out.

But if you keep it, they will usually send out little babies around them.

And you can, you know- Amanda> Propagate those Trent> Cheaper plant.

Amanda> Yeah, yeah.

Oh, gracious.

That's really pretty.

I wish I'd had something like that for my hat.

(laughter) Well, recently, well a while back, we went down to the Clemson Coastal Research and Education Center for Brassica Field Day.

And what a wonderful time we had.

Fascinating.

♪ ♪ Amanda> In late fall of 2023, We went down to Clemson University's Coastal Research and Education Center for a brassica field day.

And, Dr. Sandra Branham, I think you put that together, and you were a vegetable breeding and geneticist specialist.

So what was the purpose of field Day?

So this field day, was brought together as part of the work of my PhD student, Khushwinder Kaur She had gotten a Southern SARE Graduate Student Grant to fund looking at the diversity of the collards and kale and cabbage, and we had almost 300 different varieties at the field day, 100 of which were from the collard collection that these gentlemen helped obtain, for the U.S.D.A.

seed bank.

Amanda> And, Dr. Mark Farnham, you were down at the Coastal Center with the U.S.D.A.

and not Clemson and your specialty was?

My specialty for 30 years with the U.S.D.A.

was, breeding and genetics of Brassica family, and so, collard green was the brassica of local importance that I chose to work on over the years.

Amanda> And, Dr. Powell Smith, you were like me, a Clemson Extension agent for a while, and over in Lexington County.

Powell, talk about, the incredible importance of Lexington County in fresh market collards and brassicas, leafy greens.

Dr. Powell> Well, they're the leader in our state, for sure and I found out from Dr. Branham this morning, that their state's now the number one state in production past Georgia.

So, Lexington County is the home of a lot of the fresh market production, although collards are produced in each of our counties, <Okay> and in some form, either commercially, small commercial, roadside gardeners and farmers, that sort of thing.

But, Lexington, Calhoun are the seed of, of the commercial production, Calhoun with processing and, Lexington with Fresh Market.

And we produce a complete variety of leafy brassicas there.

Amanda> And you've got a good description of why we have field days, what people go there for.

Dr. Powell> Well, field days are educational events where we show outdoor, plots so that the farmers will actually see the crop growing because one of our famous Extension personnel of the past, Seaman Knapp, said that a lot of people won't believe what they hear, and some people don't believe what they see, but rare is the man that won't believe what he does.

So that's the basis of us doing, demonstrations and field days and that sort of stuff so growers can actually see it in the hands on, manner.

Amanda> And you brought a lot of people down for that.

It was well attended and people were fascinated, but one thing, if you're going to do plant breeding, you can't just have two things, only two plants, two collard greens, because you need a lot of genetic material, I believe.

Dr. Sandra> So when you have a new, you don't know if you're going to have the genetics to combat that problem.

And so when there's a new one, you don't know what you need until you need it.

Amanda> Gosh.

And, I think you two had a fascinating trip.

Tell us what y'all did to try to bring a lot more diversity into the seed collection.

Dr. Mark> Well, we knew, I knew early on, and with Powell's actually help, we knew that there were seed savers primarily at first in South Carolina.

We had identified several people that saved collard seed.

Amanda> You mean just, backyard vegetable growers.

Dr. Mark> Mostly backyard vegetable growers.

And when we encountered these people, we always asked for seed and people were always kind enough to give it to us.

Starting in around 2002, we went through the process of, going through what we would call formal exploration, a domestic exploration.

And we got some funding with the U.S.D.A.

and with a couple of colleagues in Virginia.

We hit the road and went looking for diversity on the collard patches around the Carolinas.

Amanda> And, Powell, you know, most people when their collards bolt or go to seed, then they say, well, this is, that's over with.

You had to wait and go around when that happened because that's how you could get some seeds, right?

Dr. Powell> Well, Mark and I discovered, that, that was how to tell, somebody was a seed saver.

You driving around February and there's nothing basically in the fields.

And then all of a sudden you see a row of collards blooming beside somebody's house, about 8 or 10 plants.

I might look at Mark and say, yep, there's a patch.

So we would stop and talk to the individual.

We met some very interesting individuals.

All seed savers just about have a story with their seeds.

So we got to record those stories and that type of thing.

And, we, did find a, there were some lines that we seem to see here and there that were that popular, that there were different ones, obviously, because they were in different growers hands, but they were still a similarity in the type of collard we were seeing.

So, Mark and the guys from Virginia actually went into North Carolina.

I didn't get to go on to that part of the trip because I had other things to do, but they found even more up there.

Dr. Sandra> I thought it was interesting what you just said, Powell, that you had several people, there were some varieties that seemed popular that you find in multiple places, but I looked at the genetics of all 100 of these collard varieties, and none of them are identical.

They're all different.

Even if they started the same, they become different.

Amanda> That's fascinating.

Are you doing some actual research now on some of these?

Dr. Sandra> Yes.

So I've used the whole collection.

There's a disease that's really, really, problematic for our growers and it's called Bacterial Leaf Blight.

And it's caused by bacteria that, there's nothing that can be sprayed for it.

Once you have it in the field, you just have to harvest as fast as you possibly can before it spreads.

So the best way to combat this is going to be to find some resistance to the disease.

So I've screened the entire collection along with my collaborator Pat Wechter, and we found two, Well, and Mark, obviously, we found two accessions that were significantly resistant out of the entire hundred and no commercial varieties were resistant.

Amanda> So we also looked at some other things on that wonderful field day.

Tell us there was a lot of stuff we got to go and taste.

What was that?

Dr. Sandra> The mustard green field.

Okay.

Yes.

So we had another field where we are looking at again, resistance to the Bacterial Leaf Blight.

So we have a field, you guys were eating the ones that hadn't been sprayed, but some of them had been sprayed with bacteria to see if, if they were resistant or not.

And so we had our resistant varieties out in the field, along with the commercial susceptible cultivars.

And we were letting you try one of our, releases that we're going to do for Charleston Broadleaf is very spicy, so it's kind of fun to eat.

Amanda> Yeah, there was a lot of, the taste was real different.

And, and I think the taste among collards is different,too.

Powell, what's your favorite?

Dr. Powell> I like the Morris Heading type collard and that was one of the types that I like, Dr. Branham said the genetics were different, but, you know, the people call 'em Heading Collards and that was one of the popular things that we would see when we went on our seed search was a lot of people had a favorite heading collard.

But I do like Morris Heading.

It's got a nice flavor.

Amanda> How about you, Mark?

Dr. Mark> My favorite, what's called, a Yellow Cabbage Collard, which most pretty prevalent type in eastern North Carolina.

And it has a very nice mild taste to it.

And, it's very tender.

I like it.

Amanda> I think partially as a result of what y'all did and I guess through the U.S.D.A.

now, home vegetable gardeners can get some of these older varieties, and pick ones that they particularly like, try a lot of different ones out.

Dr. Sandra> So there's a company called Southern Exposure Seed Exchange and they have, I believe, about 20 different of these heirloom, varieties that were collected that are available for purchase.

Amanda> I was so excited that you invited us to come 'cause, first of all, just to see all this variety growing out there and the different types of people who'd come to learn of that from people who just had a backyard garden to these huge growers, Powell, like some of the ones that you had worked with previously.

And and of course, we ended up, if you want people to really be happy, don't you need to feed them.

Dr. Sandra> Right.

So the meal was actually sponsored by Peculiar Pig Farms and Chef BJ Dennis and I've been doing a lot of work with, Chef BJ Dennis.

He's a Gullah chef.

And he is the one who let me know that we just talked about there are, these varieties, the heirlooms that you can purchase through Southern Exposure Seed Exchange.

And he let me know that none of them are the South Carolina ones.

So, we've been working together to try to maybe change that and make those available to people.

Amanda> Yeah.

Powell what were your, you have any final thoughts about the day and things?

Dr. Powell> I like to see field days and see, you know, I've got enough grower in me I guess.

I'd like to see the way the crops perform under different conditions.

And, right after we finish the collection, I think two years afterwards, Mark and I had an opportunity to go to Cornell, New York, to one of their experiment stations for another meeting.

And they just so happened the brassica station there, that's where the brassica seed, edible, is stored.

And they had planted out a good portion of that, including the recent ones that we had brought from South Carolina.

And, they were on vacation.

They love that soil up there in New York, because much more vigorous and attractive than some of the sandier soils I'd seen them growing in the southeast.

So, it's always good to have a field day to be able to see some of those kind of differences.

Amanda> Yeah, of course.

Yeah, yeah.

And Mark, what about you?

Dr. Mark> I would think that, I was excited, like you at that field day, as much because 20 years ago when we went out, myself and Powell and Ed Davis and John Morgan from Virginia, we didn't really know if we did collect it and which we ultimately did, over almost 100 accessions of collards, we didn't know how important they might be in the end.

So for me, it was very, heartwarming to have Sandra growing out those 100 collard greens that we, you know, carefully collected so many years ago and knowing that, that material could be of use now.

Amanda> And, Sandra, I would think that with the changes in climate that we're seeing, there may be new diseases and things coming in.

And so, this is could be very important for South Carolina growers.

Dr. Sandra> I'm very grateful that they went on this trip and collected this variety and all these different types, because without it I wouldn't have the material I need to breed, to combat all these problems we have coming up.

Amanda> Well, I can't wait for you to do another one.

And I'm going to be sure to bring some pepper vinegar, 'cause I like to put pepper vinegar my collards.

So, I'll bring that for lunch.

How bout that?

<Sounds great> Thank y'all so much for coming and thank you for organizing that day and for all the research that you all did that made it possible.

♪ Amanda> We appreciate everybody who made that such a special day down there.

All those different collards to look at.

It was just wonderful.

And then they let us taste a lot of things.

And, they told us about the research they're doing, and they gave us a wonderful lunch to top it off.

I can't wait to go to another brassica field day.

So I was looking for hat things, to get Terasa.

So when I dropped the dog off at doggy daycare, I've been riding by this field.

It kind of in full sun, and it's full of these flowers.

So I pulled in, and, had gotten out of the car and this nice man pulled in and said, "are you in trouble?"

And I said, probably, but I'm just collecting flowers for hat.

And he said, "oh, you're the woman who wears those hats on TV."

So that was kind of funny.

But, the grayish one, grayish green, it is Pityopsis graminifolias and Pitys was a Greek person whom the gods turned into a pine tree.

So how in the world they got that?

But you see, it is these little tiny yellow flowers on it, and it's kind of a bluish green.

They're about this tall and it's a late, late bloomer.

So in the fall, when a lot of things aren't there for pollinators, this is there.

And it spreads by rhizomes.

And so it can really just make a beautiful patch.

I think the color's just exquisite.

And in the same field, was this Lespedeza, and it's slender Lespedeza.

And I just thought it was quite lovely too.

You know, there's some invasive lespedezas that we brought in, but this one is apparently good for pollinators.

Terasa> The Pityopsis, or narrow leaved silk grass, people might not realize, but it's a member of the Aster family, so it's got those... And the flowers are, are tiny, inconspicuous, but it is a nectar source.

And from what I understand, there is a particular specialist type of bee that utilizes members of the genus Pityopsis.

Amanda> Really?

Isn't that fun?

The world is so diverse.

Once we could start, you know, I don't get to take trips to Europe and very much.

But, but you don't have to take a trip to Europe.

Terasa> You don't.

You just really have to take time to observe what's around you.

Amanda> Yeah, pull off the road sometimes, safely.

Yeah.

All righty.

Well Terasa, I bet there's some other people who might need some help with a problem.

Terasa> I think you are correct.

You know, Extention is known for providing soil testing through the local extension offices.

Of course, that gets sent to the Ag Service Lab.

But John in Gilbert has a question, and I don't blame him.

He says, why are there so many different soil analyses available?

And there are, if anyone has ever looked at the form- Amanda> It's true.

Terasa> There's a standard test, but then there's a number of... nitrate, nitrogen, organic matter, a lot.

Amanda> Well Rob, you've worked a lot with farmers and also I think occasionally with homeowners.

So would you give us some insight on this?

Rob> Okay so, there are a variety of different tests that we can perform for the soil.

So let's start with the very basics.

The soil code, those one to four numbers that you see on the sample submission sheet often relate to the actual soil type.

And this is mineral soils, that I'm going to talk about first so that, those one, two, three and four, if you look at the map of South Carolina, state of South Carolina, <Okay> relate to those soil zones and that soil composition.

And that's going to give you an indication of the sand, silt or clay contents.

Amanda> Okay.

Rob> That's going to be really important for nutrient retention and give you the cation-exchange capacities when you come through, come through with the analysis.

The cation-exchange capacity can be, is best described as the nutrient holding capacity of that soil.

Amanda> Okay.

Rob> Okay.

So that's, that's soils, soils codes one to four.

Those work really well for soils of organic matter.

Less than 10 percent.

Amanda> Oh.

Which just, I mean there's not a lot of- Rob> Which is highly unusual in South Carolina.

Yeah granted.

But once you start getting over ten percent organic matter, that will really throw off how those nutrients, can be extracted in the lab.

That's why there's a special soil code six for, soils with over 10 percent organic matter.

Amanda> Well, would that normally be from where people have put in raised beds or things or, give me some ideas- Rob> Typically I mean, I used to work a lot in the UK, in the United Kingdom in an area called The Fens, and that was all, drained marshland.

So this was 30, 40 percent peat.

Amanda> Okay.

Rob> So that would be more of an organic type soil.

Typically with an organic soil, you're going to find a very black texture, very humic, usually very, very, usually very good at growing weeds and often slightly acidic.

If you were looking at raised beds, Amanda, then I would typically recommend or suggest, a soilless media test.

Amanda> Oh, that's another one.

Rob> The way we extract, the way the reports come through is based on how those nutrients are extracted.

So soil, true mineral soil, the reagents are going to give you an, plant available nutrients.

Amanda> Yes.

Rob> And, those that are not plant available.

It's little leftover bits that are in and, and the mineralogy.

With the soilless media test, all of that material can be available.

So it's a different set of reagents.

Amanda> Gosh.

Rob> Okay.

But that's going to give you everything that's available in let's say a bark mix that you find in, in the, in the big box stores or...

So that's a really good test for, for raised beds in a lot of situations.

If you're unsure, come in to the extension office and we can certainly help you out with that one.

An organic matter test is a specific test to burn, and basically what you do is you incinerate the soil, weigh it at the start and weigh it at the end.

And that difference in percentage, percentage the organic matter.

Okay.

Amanda> Do they do that up at the lab.

Rob> Yes they do.

Yep.

Anything that's on that soil analysis form, request form is done in-house at Clemson in the Agricultural Services Laboratory.

<Goodness> So there's a lot of things out there.

The other one that I really ought to mention is compost tests.

And there is a big difference between compost and soil media, soilless media.

Amanda> Okay.

Rob> Soilless media often have much better fertility, and available nutrition.

If you think about a compost, typically what we'd be looking at is, think bark chips or wood chips.

Those wood type mulches.

So they make a really good mulch.

But the way we test those is to do a complete destruction on that sample.

But it's not, it's going to give you overall nutrient levels that are there, but not anything that's plant available.

<Oh> So if you get a compost test on a raised bed situation, you're not going to be able to fertilize it in the right way to actually be productive.

So it can, it looks quite confusing.

I've probably not made a brilliant job of explaining it.

But yeah the, the reason they're all there is for different scenarios.

Amanda> So Terasa, our administrative personnel and offices often help people when they bring in a soil test.

And I know they all work real hard to do a good job, but if somebody has something specific, can they call the Ag lab to ask them for directions?

Or Rob, what, what do you do?

Rob> My suggestion would be, I mean, if in that situation, if somebody brings a sample in, Olivia will often call me in the office, our administrative assistant and say, hey, how do I run this sample through?

what we are looking at doing to make life easier, from the lab side of things is actually create a cheat sheet basically, to really help our, our administrative assistants to get the right analysis.

Amanda> Okay.

Rob> That's coming.

We're working on it.

Amanda> Okay.

Well, I think that's wonderful.

Thank you so much for explaining that to us.

I didn't know it was so complicated.

Rob> The more we know, the more we know the better job- Amanda> -better job of managing, people are managing soils differently.

I mean, it used to be they just wanted to put in a garden or something, but people now have specific things they want to do.

Rob> Absolutely.

Amanda> Yeah, well thank you.

How about that?

Rob> My pleasure.

Amanda> Okay.

Well Terasa, Terasa> Let's see my computer has gone to sleep, so we'll have to wake it back up.

Rob> I'm that boring, am I Terasa?

(laughter) Terasa> No, do not take offense.

Do not take offense.

Damian from Pickens said, I noticed these bright red flowers popping up in my yard in September.

I didn't plant them, but they're kind of cool.

Any idea what they are?

And of course we have some images to go along with that.

I think I have an idea.

Amanda> I think I do too, Mary, give us the right answer.

Mary> Yeah.

So I mean, those are what people usually call hurricane lilies.

Or you said when, if you're a debutante, you say "hurri-can" lilies, Hurricane lilies.

Amanda> And we call them spider lilies.

Mary> Yeah.

So spider lilies or the genus is, Lycoris.

They typically pop up, usually in, late August, September through October.

Amanda> Without any leaves.

Mary> Without any leaves, so they can tend to, if you're not looking really closely, they'll look like little spears of something coming out of the ground.

And then all of a sudden you blink and then you've got some red flowers blooming in your yard.

My younger brother didn't know what they were one year and just ran them all over with their mower.

And he was like, "did I kill them?"

I'm like, "no, no, no, they'll be back.

There's, there's bulbs, in the soil.

So they'll be back."

But yeah, they typically pop up around this time of year.

Really great for pollinators.

We've got them popping up all over the botanical garden, in some of our garden beds.

We've got them popping up in areas underneath trees, but they'll slowly naturalize in your lawn or in other areas that you want, but- Amanda> We have places.

I live in a town that has a lot of old houses, and all of a sudden you'll see a pathway of them, but there's no pathway because, you know, the house was built, you know, 180 years ago, and somebody planted them.

But now that pathway is not there anymore.

It's just so much fun to see.

And, I do think somebody gave me some one time, Mary.

And, I guess I was probably asked David Bradshaw about it and he said, I can't...

He said, take them right home and plant them.

This was when we knew where the foliage was.

We could, because he said that, lilies don't have a dormant I mean, the roots are is alive.

And he said, "so don't sit them in the car and leave them," you know, he said, "go ahead and take them home and plant them."

Mary> Yeah, yeah.

There's a fleshy sort of tissue over the bulbs.

Amanda> And they do come in different colors.

But the red seem to be the ones that are easiest and most persistent here.

And gosh, what's better than a red flower?

Mary> It's a great surprise too at the end of summer, when you're tired of everything else in your garden and you have something popping up like that, it's a, it's a delightful little surprise.

Amanda> I'm so glad you talked about that.

Terasa> I like how you mentioned about the path that you see that and there's nothing there.

So it's an example of how plants can be clues to history and how people use the land.

Pretty neat.

Amanda> Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Anyway, lots of fun.

Trent I think you've brought, some show and tell.

Trent> I did.

I brought some more epiphytes.

These are orchids.

In fact.

Not all orchids are epiphytes, but these are, Amanda> Not all orchids are epiphytes?

Trent> Correct, yes.

So you can grow them in the ground, too, if they're the right kind.

But most of the ones that we grow in, in homes and in greenhouses are going to be, epiphytes, Amanda> The ones people get excited about.

Trent> Yes, yes.

And so I've, grown one in a pot.

And then two actually mounted on bark as they would be found in, the wild.

This one is actually a native one, to Florida.

This is Encyclia tampensis.

Amanda> Let's see how we can get a good- Trent> Oh, yeah.

Amanda> Good picture.

I'm gonna move your water glass.

Okay.

Let you hold it real still.

Native to Florida?

Trent> To Florida.

Yeah.

And also, I believe it extends into the Caribbean some, a lot of the Florida orchids do extend more into the Caribbean and maybe into Mexico sometimes.

We do have one native epiphytic orchid in South Carolina that also occurs in other places.

It's very similar to this one, but this one is much larger, it's fragrant, it blooms, in the summertime.

It smells kind of like honey.

Amanda> Like honey?

Trent> Yeah.

Amanda> How delightful.

Trent> Yeah.

Very beautiful- Amanda> Now, what are these little bulb like things that you see on it?

Trent> So yeah, those are pseudobulbs.

They are not really true bulbs.

They're more of a modified stem that just, that's where they store their water.

Since they don't have soil.

Amanda> Okay.

<Yes> Trent> And they also have these cool root adaptations which we might, we'll see on this one a little bit better.

Their roots are covered in this spongy material called velamen.

And in fact, if I turn it around to the back, you can, you can see it.

Amanda> Whoa.

Trent> Contrast.

And it basically acts as a sponge to absorb water, hold the water next to the roots longer so that they can absorb the water into the plant.

It makes up for it not having soil- Amanda> Turn it back to the pretty side.

Trent> Ok, definitely.

Mary> And they're green.

Do they photosynthesize as well?

Trent> Some do, some do photosynthesize.

And a lot of the times it's actually where you might find those mycorrhizal interactions.

Because orchids are very, very sensitive as seedlings.

So a lot of the times they really do depend heavily on mycorrhizae, which are, which are fungi that, that have a symbiotic relationship with, with the plants.

Amanda> And that's to help them absorb nutrients?

Trent> Absorb nutrients and really just be able to grow past the point of being a, a very small- Amanda> Oh, okay.

Yeah.

Trent> And so, yeah, they're very highly adapted, very interesting- Amanda> So what are, these larger structures?

Trent> Yeah, yeah.

So on this one, this is Dendrobium.

Dendrobium anonsmum.

This is from the Philippines, and it, has a pseudobulb that's more like a cane.

And so these are the leafless canes.

They go dormant in the winter time, and so they'll drop their leaves and then flower on these naked bare canes in the spring.

Amanda> Do they?

Trent> Yeah, This one smells like raspberries.

It's really, really- Amanda> Like raspberries?

Trent> Yeah.

It's great.

Amanda> So how have you collected these?

Are they legally available through the trade?

Trent> They are legally available.

I got these from some local nurseries, and also- Amanda> Good gracious.

Trent> some orchid societies.

I've also swapped with people I found on, on the internet and stuff.

You know, just other orchid collectors, so, yeah, that's how I got it.

Trading with friends and stuff like that.

Amanda> So you have a very, damp bathroom part of the year?

Trent> Well, this one has been living in my greenhouse because I let it go cold because it needs that dormancy some of them do need, they don't go freezing, but, you know, down into the fifties- Amanda> Okay.

Okay.

Ah, so you really have to know a lot about them.

Trent> Yeah.

They're very, very- Amanda> Now what's this one over here, that's got this tail hanging off.

Trent> And this is dendrochilum magnum.

Now, I did damage the leaves a little bit trying to get it to bloom this year, but I did get it to bloom.

This is- Amanda> Why did you have to damage the leaves?

Trent> Well, so I put it in a little bit too much sun.

Amanda> Oh.

Uh-oh.

Trent> I hadn't been giving it enough in the past.

But yeah, this is one of the orchids.

That's very.

It's very small flowered, but it makes up in quantity and fragrance.

It smells to many, like orange and cloves.

I think it has a little bit of an, an earthy and kind of a sour smell as well, but I really enjoy it.

Amanda> You let me smell it earlier, and I found it... interesting.

Not unpleasant at all.

Just like a complex, fragrance almost.

Trent> Many orchids have very unusual scents, from really good to very bad.

Amanda> Now, what is the point of their using energy to make these fragrances?

Trent> Well, it's usually to attract pollinators.

Amanda> It is.

Trent> And a lot of the times, orchids have a hard time getting pollinated if they don't offer a reward to their pollinators, so they will trick the pollinators, using strange scents.

And there are even some bees that require orchid fragrances to be able to mate and use them as pheromones.

So there can be very, very, you know, closely adapted to their surrounding environments and their, pollinators and stuff like that.

Amanda> So you're one of those orchid nerds, Trent> I guess so, I guess so, yeah.

Amanda> They are Fascinating.

Trent> They are.

Yeah.

I mean, there's an orchid for everyone.

I mean, we've got tons of native orchids in South Carolina, too.

Just the one that grows in the trees, but a lot of other ones grow on the ground.

And they're all worth seeking out and seeing.

But leave them where they are, in the wild.

Amanda> Yeah.

Yes, yes.

Well, thank you so very much for sharing these- <Absolutely> That was really delightful.

Okay, Terasa, so we got about three minutes left.

Terasa> Let's see if we can help Gianna.

Who would like to know what's the best way to save seed or store seed?

I'm sorry, store seed.

Amanda> Well, you know, when we had the brassica field day, we learned that they had gone around and asked people about collecting collard seeds, remember?

Rob, how would you suggest doing this?

Rob> That's a really good question.

The first thing I would always say is be very cautious of the cultivar that you're trying to save seed from.

If it's an heirloom, open pollinated type cultivar, you'll have much better success than any of the F1 hybrids.

Amanda> Oh Rob> The hybrids, if you try and save seed, you may get them reverting back to the original parent cross.

Amanda> Then there wasn't any point saving it because it's not what you want- Rob> Right.

So that would be my, my first point.

<Okay> Always make sure that the seed is properly ripe, so that's the color change is there.

The, the seed coat has gone quite hard and firm.

That's going to give you much better success and reduce the potential for, rots to develop, microorganisms to develop, causing spoilage over time.

So that brings you really into the, how to store them?

If you've got a cool dark place, that's dry, that will be quite effective for short term storage.

So I use a paper bag or, an envelope for small, small seeds that I can keep in the house where it's air conditioned, that I'm in control of the humidity and moisture.

Mary> Definitely don't want to use like a glass jar.

Rob> Glass or plastic is going to induce condensation.

Amanda> We'll how bout, Tony used to tell me to put them in the freezer sometimes, and I had to get a straw and suck all the air out of the Ziploc or something.

Rob> Yeah, for, for long term storage, then freezing is a really good option.

And the reason why you'd want to suck out the air is your taking out any of the moisture and creating a vacuum which prevents, you know, you see freezer burn on foods.

And that's usually the interaction of ice crystals forming, that will cause damage to the, to the seed.

Amanda> Okay.

Rob> So keeping them, sucking out the air, sucking out the moisture and creating that vacuum really does help for long term storage.

Amanda> You know what, it is kind of fun.

Someone gave me some when they cleaned out, her grandfather's house.

They found some in the fridge, freezer, and they were still viable.

Terasa, isn't that fun?

Rob> But I, you know, and it's incredible what seeds will survive.

You know, you look at some of the some of the, cereal crops that were found in the... pyramids for example.

Amanda> Whoa.

Well, this has been so much fun.

Thank y'all so very much.

And, we'll say good night to you and see you next week.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ Narrator> Making It Grow is brought to you in part by Certified South Carolina.

This cooperative effort among farmers, retailers, and the South Carolina Department of Agriculture helps consumers identify foods and agricultural products that are grown, harvested, or raised right here in the Palmetto State.

McLeod Farms in McBee, South Carolina family owned and operated since 1916, this family farm offers seasonal produce, including over 40 varieties of peaches.

Wesley Commons, a full service continuing care retirement community located on more than 150 wooded acres in Greenwood, South Carolina.

Additional funding provided by the South Carolina Farm Bureau Federation and Farm Bureau Insurance and Boone Hall Farms.