>> WELCOME BACK TO "FAMILY HEALTH MATTERS."

I'M SHELLY IRWIN.

WITH ME TODAY TO DISCUSS, GLAD THAT YOU ARE HERE, ALICIA ASH, CERTIFIED PEER RECOVERY COACH AT NETWORK 180, AND DR. GREGORY MALICE FROM PINEREST, BOTH INVOLVED IN THE FIELD OF LONELINESS.

LET'S TALK ABOUT IT AND PERHAPS FIND A SILVER LINING OR TWO.

ALICIA, WOULD YOU TALK ABOUT HOW YOU SPEND YOUR DAY IN THIS FIELD?

>> I SPEND MY DAY -- PARDON ME -- PRE-COVID, VERY COMMUNITY BASED, WORKING WITH ADULTS WHO SHARE A COMMON DIAGNOSIS OF SEVERE, MODERATE TO SEVERE SUBSTANCE USE, AND A CO-OCCURRING MENTAL HEALTH DIAGNOSIS.

I WORK PRIMARILY WITH MEDICAID PATIENTS THROUGH NETWORK 180 AND CONNECTING PEOPLE TO RESOURCES AND HOPE REGARDING GETTING ON TRACK WITH THEIR RECOVERY.

I COME TO THE FIELD WITH 11 YEARS OF SUSTAINED LONG-TERM RECOVERY MYSELF, SO I BRING THAT EXPERIENCE TO THE JOB EVERY DAY, AND HOPEFULLY BRING A LITTLE HOPE WITH ME, TOO.

>> RIGHT, AND THE PILLOW BEHIND YOU SAYS BLESSED, SO I IMAGINE YOU ARE.

BLESSED TO HAVE YOU.

>> YES.

>> DOCTOR, WOULD YOU SHARE YOUR NICHE, PLEASE?

>> I WORK FOR PINEREST FOR THE SOUTHWEST CLINIC IN GRANDVILLE AND A GENERAL PATIENT PSYCHOLOGIST.

SO I SEE CLIENTS WHO ARE COMING TO ME WITH ISSUES RANGING FROM DEPRESSION AND LONELINESS TO MARITAL ISSUES TO ANXIETY, ALL SORTS OF THINGS, AND BEFORE COVID, I WAS SEEING THEM IN MY OFFICE, AND NOW I'M SEEING THEM HERE IN MY VIRTUAL OFFICE.

>> YES, I'LL START WITH YOU, DOCTOR, LET'S TALK ABOUT THE TOPIC OF LONELINESS.

IS THERE A DEFINITION, OR PERHAPS A SIGN OR SYMPTOM?

WHERE ARE WE HERE?

>> YEAH, LONELINESS, THE WAY I LOOK AT IT, IS A SYMPTOM OF SOMETHING ELSE, LONELINESS IS SOMETHING PEOPLE EXPERIENCE WITH DEPRESSION.

RIGHT NOW, MY EXPERIENCE IN WORKING WITH PEOPLE IS THAT LONELINESS IS A HUGE ISSUE THAT MANY OF US ARE EXPERIENCING BECAUSE OF THE ISOLATION DUE TO COVID.

WE ARE IN OUR HOMES, WE ARE DISCONNECTED FROM FRIENDS, FROM SUPPORT GROUPS, FROM CO-WORKERS AND IT'S A REAL BIG ISSUE THAT SEEMS TO BE HITTING A LOT OF PEOPLE, ADULTS AND CHILDREN, AND YOU REALLY GOT TO THINK ABOUT KIDS WHO ARE USED TO GOING TO SCHOOL EVERY DAY AND SEEING THEIR FRIENDS, MANY OF WHOM AT ONE POINT OR ANOTHER DURING THIS PANDEMIC, HAD TO BE AT HOME FOR PERIODS OF TIME, CONNECTING VIRTUALLY, BUT MISSING THAT IN-PERSON CONNECTION, AND I THINK ALL OF THAT IS CONTRIBUTING TO INCREASE IN LONELINESS RIGHT NOW.

>> ALICIA, WOULD YOU EXPAND ON THAT WITH YOUR CLIENTELE?

>> I WOULD DEFINITELY HAVE TO AGREE WITH THE DOCTOR, AND WITH SUBSTANCE USE, IT'S ALMOST COMPOUNDED, BECAUSE SUBSTANCE USE ITSELF CAN BE UNFORTUNATELY VERY STIGMATIZED AND ISOLATING IN AND OF ITSELF, AND WHEN COVID BEGAN, A LOT OF THE SUPPORT NETWORKS LIKE THE LOCAL CLUBS AND IN-PERSON RECOVERY MEETINGS WERE TAKEN AWAY, AND IN EARLY RECOVERY WHEN FOLKS DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO PLANT FORMS LIKE ZOOM OR WI-FI THEN THINGS GET LONELIER.

YOU ARE PUT IN A POSITION WHERE YOU'RE EVEN MORE ISOLATED FROM SOCIETY THAN YOU WERE PRIOR TO SOMETHING LIKE A GLOBAL PANDEMIC.

>> I'M THINKING OF A SITUATION EITHER A CHICKEN OR THE EGG, THE CART OR THE HORSE, ONE IS LONELY SO THEY TURN TO SUBSTANCE ABUSE, ONE IS ABUSING SUBSTANCES SO THEY BECOME LONELY.

IS THERE A CORRELATION HERE?

>> THERE IS.

AS I COME TO THE FIELD WITH A HISTORY IN ADDICTION.

ADDICTION IN AND OF ITSELF IS VERY ISOLATING.

YOU'RE NOT AROUND HEALTHY PEERS.

YOU'RE NOT REALLY CONNECTED TO FAMILY AND RESOURCES THAT MAKE YOU FEEL LIKE YOU'RE A PART OF SOCIETY.

SO IF YOU HAVE A SUBSTANCE USE DIAGNOSIS THAT HAS BEEN ACTIVE PRIOR TO SOMETHING AS BIG AS A STAY-AT-HOME ORDER, THEN IT ALMOST PUTS YOU IN A PLACE WHERE YOUR SUBSTANCE USE IS ALMOST BOUND TO ESCALATE, AND YOU BECOME EVEN LONELIER, AND IT GETS DANGEROUS.

VERY, VERY DANGEROUS VERY QUICK.

>> FOLLOW UP ON THE DANGER, PLEASE.

>> WELL, FOR EXAMPLE, WE HAVE THE OPIATE EPIDEMIC PRIOR TO COVID.

IF WE ARE NOW ISOLATED AND POSSIBLY USING MORE AND -- PARDON ME -- NOT AROUND FOLKS WHO MAYBE ARE EQUIPPED TO TAKE CARE OF US, THE PROCLIVITY FOR OVERDOSE AND, YOU KNOW, NOT HAVING THE PREVENTION, USING DIRTY NEEDLES, THINGS LIKE THAT, BEING IN MORE DANGEROUS SITUATIONS IN GENERAL, IS JUST GOING TO BE HEIGHTENED.

>> DOCTOR, BACK TO YOU ON FEELING LONELY.

AT WHAT POINT DO I REACH OUT FOR HELP?

>> THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION, AND I WISH THAT THERE IS A VERY PECIFIC ANSWER THEY COULD GIVE, BUT IT VARIES FROM PERSON TO PERSON.

I THINK REALLY YOU WANT TO START EXAMINING IS MY LONELINESS INTERFERING WITH INABILITY TO FUNCTION?

BECAUSE I'M FEELING SO LONELY, AM I DISCONNECTING FROM OTHERS?

AM I NOT ENGAGING IN WORK?

AM I NOT ENGAGING IN THINGS THAT I MIGHT PREVIOUSLY HAVE ENJOYED.

WHEN I START NOTICING THAT, THAT'S A REALLY, REALLY HELPFUL SIGN TO SAY I NEED A LITTLE BIT EXTRA HELP RIGHT NOW, BECAUSE I'M NOT ABLE TO HANDLE THIS LONELINESS IN A WAY THAT IS PRODUCTIVE OR EFFECTIVE.

>> AND BACK TO YOU, ALICIA, IF ONE IS HAVING PERHAPS THE PADEMIC BEGAN WITH ONE GLASS OF WINE A NIGHT TO NOW YOU'RE UP TO THREE, AT WHAT POINT DO WE ASK FOR HELP?

>> I WOULD PIGGYBACK ON WHAT THE DOCTOR JUST MENTIONED.

YOU KNOW, IS IT INTERFERING WITH YOUR DAILY FUNCTION?

IS IT INTERFERING WITH YOUR MENTAL HEALTH?

YOUR SLEEP?

YOUR DIET?

YOUR NUTRITION?

ALL OF THE THINGS THAT KIND OF BROUGHT YOU JOY PRIOR TO THE PANDEMIC, WORKING OUT, CONNECTING WITH YOUR FAMILY, TALKING TO PEOPLE THAT YOU CARE ABOUT.

IF THOSE THINGS ARE BEING AFFECTED, IT'S DEFINITELY TIME TO REACH OUT AND MAYBE JUST GOOGLE SUPPORT MEETINGS FOR A.A., SMART RECOVERY, LOCAL ALANNO CLUBS, FIND OUT WHETHER OR NOT YOU CAN CONNECT WITH PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN THERE AND MAYBE BE ABLE TO HELP SEE YOU THROUGH THAT PROCESS OF WHETHER OR NOT THIS IS KIND OF A SELF-MEDICATION WHERE YOU'RE MAYBE LOOKING FOR SOME UNHEALTHY WAYS TO COPE WITH THE PANDEMIC?

OR IF IT COULD BE A BIGGER ISSUE THAT NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED WITH PROFESSIONAL HELP.

>> YES, HOW DO YOU SPECIFICALLY GET INVOLVED WITH THAT CALL?

>> I WOULD SPECIFICALLY GET INVOLVED WITH THAT CALL GENERALLY BY HAVING PEOPLE REACH OUT TO NETWORK 180 OR MYSELF PERSONALLY, AND THEY MAY BE ASKING FOR TREATMENT.

SOMETHING AS SIMPLE AS ARE THERE ANY MEETINGS AVAILABLE RIGHT NOW?

HOW DO I GET CONNECTED TO A MEETING?

I'M HOMELESS.

WHAT DO I DO?

WHERE DO I GO?

HOW DOES THIS WORK?

AND IT'S REALLY A MATTER OF READINESS, YOU KNOW.

ARE YOU KIND OF READY TO MAKE THE NECESSARY CHANGES AS WELL AS ARE YOU UNCOMFORTABLE ENOUGH WITH YOUR LEVEL OF LONELINESS TO MOVE FORWARD WITH WHATEVER MAY NEED TO HAPPEN NEXT?

>> YES, I'LL GET BACK TO YOU, OBVIOUSLY ON THE TOPIC OF HOMELESSNESS.

DOCTOR, WITH YOUR THERAPIST BACKGROUND, WHAT WOULD ARE YOUR TREATMENT, SAY, ONE HAS MADE THE CALL TO YOU?

>> YEAH, SO I WOULD TALK TO THE INDIVIDUAL AND TRY AND UNDERSTAND WHAT IS REALLY DRIVING SOME OF THIS LONELINESS.

LONELINESS IS A FEELING WE GET BUT OFTENTIMES OTHER THINGS ASSOCIATED WITH IT.

IS IT DRIVEN BY FEELING DISCONNECTED FROM THE PEOPLE THAT WE NORMALLY SPEND TIME WITH, OUR FRIENDS, OUR CONNECTIONS, OUR SUPPORT SYSTEMS?

IS IT FEELING LIKE I'M NOT EFFECTIVE IN MY LIFE ANYMORE?

DOES IT FEEL LIKE I'M NOT DOING ANYTHING PRODUCTIVE OR USEFUL, AND ONCE WE UNDERSTAND THE UNDERPINNINGS OF THIS LONELINESS, WE START TO TARGET WHAT CAN WE DO?

W HAVE THIS FEELING, SO LET'S DO SOMETHING, TRY AND BE ACTIVE, LET'S TRY AND BUILD SOMETHING THAT CAN HELP US FEEL A DIFFERENT WAY, SO WE MIGHT CONNECT TO OTHER RESOURCES.

WE MIGHT ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO UTILIZE THEIR DIGITAL CONNECTIONS MORE AND SCHEDULE ZOOM MEETINGS WITH FRIENDS, SCHEDULE OPPORTUNITIES TO CALL SOMEONE ON THE PHONE.

PLAY A GAME OVER THE COMPUTER.

ANYTHING THAT CAN HELP THEM FEEL CONNECTED.

ANYTHING THAT CAN HELP THEM FEEL MORE ENGAGED IN THE THINGS THAT ARE IMPORTANT AND VALUABLE TO THEM.

>> DO YOU BRING IN FAMILY MEMBERS OR THOSE CLOSE TO THE ONE THAT MADE THE CALL?

>> YEAH, CERTAINLY.

SUPPORT SYSTEMS ARE AN IMPORTANT PART OF THIS PROCESS.

SO FINDING OUT WHO TYPICALLY ARE THE SUPPORTS FOR THIS INDIVIDUAL?

IS IT FAMILY?

IS IT FRIENDS?

IS IT CHURCH GROUPS?

WHO IS THAT AND HOW DO WE GET THEM CONNECTED AND INVOLVED IN THIS PROCESS?

>> ALICIA, LET'S SPEND TIME TALKING ABOUT THE HOMELESS.

OBVIOUSLY, HAPPENING RIGHT HERE IN OUR OWN BACKYARD.

HOW DO YOU SUPPORT THOSE THAT ARE ON THIS JOURNEY?

>> I DO MY BEST TO GET PEOPLE CONNECTED WITH THE RESOURCES THAT WE DO HAVE AVAILABLE RIGHT NOW.

MEL TROTTER IS DOING AN AMAZING JOB OF HOUSING PEOPLE.

QUARANTINING PEOPLE AS NEED BE, AND THE BEAUTIFUL THING ABOUT WHEN PEOPLE ARE READY TO ENTER TREATMENT IS THAT THERE IS AT LEAST SOMETHING TEMPORARY THAT CAN GET THEM HOUSED FOR A SHORT TIME SO THEY CAN GET BACK ON THEIR FEET.

YOU GO TO TREATMENT, YOU MAY BE ELIGIBLE FOR SOMETHING LONGER TERM, WHICH WOULD GIVE YOU TIME TO KIND OF GET CONNECTED TO COMMUNITY REBUILDERS AND GET ON A HOUSING WAIT LIST, AND WE DO HAVE SEVERAL AGENCIES IN TOWN THAT OFFER LOW-INCOME HOUSING ASSISTANCE, AND THEY'RE ACTUALLY STARTING TO HAVE MORE.

SO IT'S GETTING PEOPLE CONNECTED TO THE APPROPRIATE RESOURCES TO MEET THAT NEED BECAUSE IT IS A VERY, VERY BIG NEED, ESPECIALLY WITH SUBSTANCE USE.

>> AND WHERE ARE WE HERE, MID-FEBRUARY, 2021 WITH SUPPORT GROUPS THAT YOU WOULD PERHAPS OFFER IN-PERSON OR VIA THIS TECHNOLOGY?

>> WELL, WE ACTUALLY HAVE FOUND OUR RECOVERY COMMUNITY TO JUST KIND OF BLOW UP WITH THESE BEAUTIFUL ZOOM RESOURCES WHEN IT COMES TO RECOVERY MEETINGS.

AND IF YOU WERE TO GO TO, I BELIEVE IT'S KENTWOOD COMMUNITY, KCCL FOR A.A. OR NASTUFF.ORG, YOU CAN FIND ZOOM MEETINGS, GO TO SMART RECOVERY.ORG TO FIND ZOOM MEETINGS.

YOU ALSO WOULD BE ABLE TO REACH OUT TO ANY OF THE LOCAL ALANNO CLUBS.

THE SOUTH CLUB, THE ALANNO CLUB OF KENT COUNTY, ARE ALL FUNCTIONING AT A LIMITED CAPACITY, OF COURSE, WITH SOCIAL DISTANCING AND PPE REQUIREMENTS.

HOWEVER, WE ARE BLESSED IN GRAND RAPIDS TO HAVE A VERY, VERY LARGE RECOVERY COMMUNITY, WHERE IF YOU COME TO A MEETING AND YOU SAY, HEY, I NEED HELP, CAN I GET SOME PHONE NUMBERS?

YOU'RE NOW GETTING CONNECTED TO OTHER PEOPLE WHO CAN HELP YOU.

>> WHAT SPECIFICALLY IS AN ALANNO CLUB.

>> ALANNO CLUB STANDS FOR THE COMBINATION OF ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS AND AL-ANON, AND THOSE CLUBS ARE MEANT TO HOLD SUPPORT MEETINGS FOR PEOPLE WHO WOULD LIKE THAT -- I'M NOT REALLY ONE ON ONE BUT THE GROUP ATMOSPHERE TO HAVE THAT CONNECTION.

I PERSONALLY GO TO SEVERAL, AND I SERVE ON THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS AT THE NORTH CLUB SO I OBVIOUSLY HAVE A TENDER HEART TO THAT CLUB SPECIFICALLY.

HOWEVER, ALL THE CLUBS ARE GREAT AND OFFER ANYTHING FROM A.A. TO N.A., SMART RECOVERY, MEDICALLY ASSISTED TREATMENT GROUPS, FOOD ADDICTS ANONYMOUS GROUP, SOMEWHERE YOU CAN GO AND KNOW YOU'RE NOT BY YOURSELF RIGHT NOW.

>> AND AS YOU'VE SHARED YOUR STORY, I WOULD THINK ONE OF THE TOUGHEST PARTS IS ASKING FOR HELP, SAYING THAT YOUR LIFE IS NOT FUNCTIONING THE WAY IT SHOULD BE.

WHAT DID IT FOR YOU AND WHERE DOES ONE START HERE?

>> WHEN THE HOUSE OF CARDS BEGINS TO FALL, MUCH MORE QUICKLY THAN YOU EXPECTED IT TO.

YOU KNOW, I FOUND MYSELF IN RECOVERY AFTER SEVERAL PRETTY INTENSE DUIs, AND JUST A LOT OF HEALTH CONCERNS AND LIFE HAD FALLEN APART.

AND LOOKING BACK ON THAT NOW, I WAS VERY ISOLATED.

I WAS VERY LONELY.

I HAD SEVERAL SUICIDE ATTEMPTS PRIOR TO GETTING INTO RECOVERY, AND IT WAS THAT FEELING OF LONELINESS.

THAT FEELING THEY COULDN'T REACH OUT AND ASK FOR HELP.

IT HAD TO GET TO A POINT WHERE I WAS MOTIVATED AND READY TO SAY, YOU KNOW, I WOULD LIKE SOMETHING DIFFERENT, WHATEVER THAT LOOKS LIKE.

SO THERE IS -- THERE'S A STAGE OF CHANGE THAT IS DEFINITELY INDICATIVE BEFORE ALL OF THOSE THINGS CAN TAKE PLACE, BUT I WAS JUST MOTIVATED TO SAY THIS IS JUST NOT MANAGEABLE AND SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE, AND I'M READY TO ASK FOR HELP.

I'M NOT EMBARRASSED -- I'M NOT AS EMBARRASSED AS I THOUGHT I WAS.

THERE'S OTHER PEOPLE LIKE ME.

>> THANK YOU FOR THAT.

DOCTOR, THERE'S A SAYING THAT I OFTEN SEE, CHECK ON YOUR STRONG FRIEND.

REMIND US THAT EVEN THE STRONG FEEL LONELY?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

LONELINESS IS ONE OF OUR MANY HUMAN EMOTIONS, ONE OF OUR MANY EXPERIENCES IN LIFE, AND WE'LL ALL EXPERIENCE IT AT DIFFERENT TIMES.

SO THE ONES WHO ARE TYPICALLY STRONG, WHAT WE MIGHT CALL STRONGEST, THE ONES WHO ARE THE HELPERS, PEOPLE WE GO TO IN OUR GROUP OF FRIENDS, THEY MIGHT BE FEELING LONELY, BURNED OUT, THEY MIGHT BE FEELING DISCONNECTED.

I THINK FOR MANY OF THE QUOTE, UNQUOTE STRONGEST, THEY HAVE A BELIEF IN THEIR HEAD THEY HAVE TO BE STRONG IN ORDER TO TAKE CARE OF EVERYONE ELSE SO THEY'RE NOT ALLOWED TO SHOW ANY KIND OF CRACKS IN THAT STRENGTH.

AND REALLY WE WANT TO HELP PEOPLE IN OUR SUPPORT NETWORKS KNOW IF YOU'RE STRUGGLING, WE'RE HERE, RIGHT?

IT'S OKAY TO STRUGGLE, WE ALL STRUGGLE FROM TIME TO TIME, AND WE JUST WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW THAT THEY HAVE PEOPLE THEY CAN TALK TO.

I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO KNOW TOO THAT JUST BECAUSE SOMEONE IS IN THIS PANDEMIC, IN A QUARANTINE WITH PEOPLE AROUND THEM, DOESN'T MEAN THEY'RE NOT FEELING LONELY.

YOU CAN BE IN A HOUSE FULL OF PEOPLE AND STILL FEEL DISCONNECTED.

WE WANT TO BE AWARE THAT THE LONELINESS IS AN EMOTIONAL THING AND DOESN'T NECESSARILY CONNECT TO WHETHER OR NOT THERE ARE PEOPLE PHYSICALLY AROUND YOU.

>> YES, DO YOU USE FAITH IN YOUR TREATMENT?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

FOR INDIVIDUALS WHO FAITH IS AN IMPORTANT PART OF THEIR LIFE, WE DEFINITELY TAP INTO THAT AS A RESOURCE, AS A SUPPORT SYSTEM, AND WE CHECK INTO SEE IF FAITH MIGHT ALSO BE IMPACTING THEIR FEELING OF LONELINESS.

THEY MIGHT BE FEELING LIKE THEY'RE NOT GETTING THE CONNECTION FROM THEIR COMMUNITY, NOT GETTING CONNECTION FROM THEIR HIGHER POWER, AND ALL OF THAT CAN CONTRIBUTE TO LONELINESS, SO DEFINITELY, WHEN I'M WORKING WITH AN INDIVIDUAL, I WANT TO UNDERSTAND ALL OF THE ASPECTS, AS I MENTIONED BEFORE, WHAT'S UNDERPINNING THE SENSE OF LONELINESS.

>> ALICIA, ARE THERE -- AGAIN, BACK TO YOUR STORY AND YOUR CLIENTS' STORIES.

ARE THERE -- I MEAN, THIS IS A JOURNEY, YOU OFTEN RECOVER BUT PERHAPS YOU'RE NOT CURED.

DO YOU TEACH THOSE WHO WORK WITH YOU TO WATCH FOR THE TRIGGERS?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

ESPECIALLY NOW.

LONELINESS AND ISOLATION ARE HUGE TRIGGERS FOR PEOPLE WITH SUBSTANCE USE DISORDER.

I STILL CHECK IN WITH MYSELF AND LIKE THE DOCTOR SAID, CHECK IN ON YOUR STRONG FRIENDS.

BECAUSE THE PEOPLE WHO ARE CONSTANTLY OUT THERE HELPING, YOU KNOW, IF YOU'RE A PART OF A 12 STEP GROUP, YOUR SPONSOR NEEDS A SPONSOR.

PEOPLE NEED TO KNOW THAT THEY'RE CARED ABOUT, THEY'RE THOUGHT ABOUT, THEY'RE LOVED, THEY'RE IMPACTFUL.

SO CHECKING IN ON THOSE EMOTIONAL TRIGGERS.

THE LONELINESS, WHETHER OR NOT YOU'RE IN A ROOMFUL OF PEOPLE.

ARE YOU COMPLETELY BY YOURSELF?

AND ISOLATION IS A HUGE TRIGGER.

SO JUST CHECKING IN ON THAT.

I DO THAT WITH MYSELF ON A PRETTY MUCH DAILY BASIS.

AM I DOING THE THINGS THAT BRING ME JOY IN MY RECOVERY?

AM I IDENTIFYING WITH MY HIGHER POWER.

AM I TALKING TO AT LEAST ONE OTHER PERSON IN RECOVERY A DAY?

AM I DOING THINGS THAT I LIKE?

AM I EATING?

AM I GETTING A LITTLE PHYSICAL ACTIVITY NO MATTER HOW COLD IT IS OUTSIDE.

IT'S FREEZING OUTSIDE, BUT STILL GOOD TO MOVE AROUND A LITTLE BIT.

JUST BEING CAREFUL NOT TO GET IN A RUT OF JUST KIND OF NETFLIXING OUT AND BINGE EATING CANDY.

>> YES, DOCTOR, TALK TO ME MORE ABOUT TREATMENT.

DO YOU PRESCRIBE EXERCISE AND/OR NUTRITIONAL GUIDELINES FOR THOSE WHO ARE SERIOUS ABOUT TREATMENT WITH YOU?

>> SURE, I TALK ABOUT IT THOSE IMPROVING MENTAL AND PHYSICAL HEALTH, WHILE I DON'T NECESSARILY PRESCRIBE THINGS, I DO ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO EXERCISE, TO FIND OUT ANY WAY THEY CAN GET SOME PHYSICAL ACTIVITY, WHETHER THAT IS AS SIMPLE AS GETTING A STANDING DESK FOR YOUR OFFICE AT HOME SO YOU'RE NOT SITTING DOWN.

I'M SITTING DOWN MUCH OF THE TIME IN MY JOB, AND I TRY TO BALANCE THAT OUT WITH WHEN I GET AN OPPORTUNITY WALKING ON A TREADMILL, OR I'VE GOT TWO YOUNG KIDS, PLAYING WITH KIDS, THEY KEEP ME ACTIVE, BUT I ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO FIND A WAY TO BUILD EXERCISE INTO THE ROUTINE THAT FITS FOR THEM.

NOT EVERYONE IS GOING TO BE ABLE TO GO TO THE GYM, NOT EVERYONE IS GOING TO BE ABLE TO AFFORD GOING TO A GYM.

ALONG WITH EXERCISE IS NUTRITIONAL HEALTH, WHEN YOU'RE EATING, WHAT YOU'RE EATING, HOW MUCH YOU'RE EATING, ALL OF THAT AFFECTS MENTAL HEALTH IN DIFFERENT WAYS.

HOW CAN WE DO IT HEALTHY IN A WAY THAT FITS WITH SOMEONE'S LIFESTYLE BUT MOVES TOWARDS THE CHANGE THEY'RE LOOKING FOR.

>> QUESTION, I'LL START WITH YOU, DOCTOR, ARE THERE PHRASES FOR ME NOT TO SAY, PERHAPS TO SOMEONE WHO MAY BE LONELY AND I'M NOT AWARE OF THIS?

>> I THINK PHRASES LIKE, OH, YOU'RE OKAY, YOU'LL BE FINE, OTHER PEOPLE HAVE IT WORSE.

ALL THOSE THINGS PROBABLY COME FROM A REALLY CARING PLACE MOST OF THE TIME, BUT ULTIMATELY ARE VERY, VERY MUCH HURTFUL TO INDIVIDUALS, VERY MINIMIZING AND DISMISSING OF SOMEONE'S EXPERIENCE.

SO WHAT I WOULD ENCOURAGE ANYONE TO DO WHO'S TRYING TO CONNECT WITH A FRIEND WHO MIGHT BE FEELING LONELY IS JUST LISTEN.

ASK QUESTIONS.

TRY TO UNDERSTAND THEIR EXPERIENCE.

EVEN IF IT'S DIFFERENT THAN YOURS.

EVEN IF YOU FEEL DIFFERENTLY, TRY TO UNDERSTAND HOW AND WHY THIS PERSON FEELS THIS WAY RIGHT NOW?

>> SAME QUESTION TO YOU, ALICIA.

>> I WOULD HAVE TO AGREE WITH THAT.

YOU KNOW, NOT MINIMIZING THE WAY SOMEBODY FEELS LIKE, OH, WELL, OTHER PEOPLE HAVE IT WORSE, OR YOU KNOW, YOU DON'T HAVE TO DRINK THAT MUCH.

OTHER PEOPLE ARE LONELY, TOO.

IT'S REALLY DISMISSIVE OF HOW THAT PERSON MAY FEEL IN THIS MOMENT.

IF THOSE ARE THE GENUINE FEELINGS.

ASKING QUESTIONS, WHAT'S GOING ON?

DO YOU JUST NEED SOMEBODY TO TALK TO?

ONE THING I SAY IS DO YOU NEED ADVICE OR WOULD YOU JUST LIKE TO VENT?

WE ALL NEED TO GET IT OUT.

JUST NOT MINIMIZING ANYBODY'S FEELINGS RIGHT NOW.

>> DOCTOR, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU WORK WITH KIDS, LET'S JUST TALK ABOUT KIDS FEELING LONELY, WHAT'S PERHAPS AN INTERVENTION HERE, ASAP?

>> I DON'T TYPICALLY WORK WITH YOUNG KIDS, IN MY PRACTICE I HAVE SEEN KIDS OVER THE YEARS.

WHAT WE WANT TO DO ASAP IS TRY AND FIGURE OUT WHAT THE KIDS ARE LOOKING FOR, MISSING IN THEIR LIVES RIGHT NOW.

ARE THEY LOOKING FOR FRIENDS TO CONNECT WITH?

AND HOW CAN WE DO THAT SAFELY AND EFFECTIVELY.

CAN WE DO THAT VIA ZOOM?

CAN WE DO THAT VIA VIDEO GAMES?

CAN WE DO IT VIA PERSON TO PERSON INTERACTION?

DO WE FEEL THAT'S SAFE?

CAN WE PUT THEM IN A MASK AND HAVE THEM GO SOMEWHERE?

CAN WE GET THEM OUTSIDE PLAYING IN THE SNOW?

WHAT DOES THAT CHILD NEED?

CAN WE LISTEN TO THEM.

REGARDLESS WHAT OF ISSUE IS, I DON'T THINK WE DO A GREAT JOB AT LISTENING TO WHAT OUR KIDS ARE NEEDING.

WE SEE THEY'RE STRUGGLING AND AS THE ADULTS WE THINK WE KNOW WHAT THE ANSWER IS, AND MOST OF THE TIME IF WE ASK AND LISTEN, THEY'LL HELP US UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY NEED, INSTEAD OF US JUMPING IN AND TELLING THEM WHAT THEY NEED.

>> WELL, THE PARENTS NEED TO JUMP IN THE SNOW FIRST.

THERE YOU GO.

ALICIA, LET'S TALK ABOUT KIDS ON YOUR END.

AGAIN, I DON'T THINK YOU DIRECTLY WORK ONE ON ONE, BUT WHAT ABOUT THE KIDS OF -- I'LL KEEP SAYING YOUR CLIENTS?

>> IF THERE IS THE ABILITY TO SPEAK TO THE CHILDREN, THERE IS SOMETIMES, THERE IS NOT SOMETIMES, DEPENDS ON THE SITUATION, I SUGGEST CALL.

CALL AND TALK TO THOSE KIDS.

IF THE CHILDREN ARE STILL IN YOUR CUSTODY, FIND SOMETHING TO DO TOGETHER, YOU KNOW?

YOU'RE REBUILDING THIS RELATIONSHIP WHICH HAS BEEN IMPACTED BY MENTAL HEALTH AND SUBSTANCE USE.

SO ONE THING I PERSONALLY DO, MY CHILDREN ARE OLDER, WE HAVE A 17-YEAR-OLD AND 18-YEAR-OLD AT HOME.

WE HAVE DINNER TOGETHER EVERY SINGLE DAY.

HOW ARE YOUR FRIENDS DOING?

HOW WAS SCHOOL TODAY?

EVEN IF IT WAS JUST VIRTUAL.

HOW ARE YOU DOING?

MAKING PEOPLE FEEL VALIDATED, THAT INCLUDES YOUR KIDS.

>> DOCTOR, ADD TO THAT?

>> YEAH, I WANTED TO ADD TO THAT.

I AGREE WITH EVERYTHING ALICIA IS SAYING, AND I THINK WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT LONELINESS, WE WANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE PART OF LONELINESS IS NOT FEELING UNDERSTOOD, NOT FEELING HEARD, AND I THINK THAT AS ALICIA IS TALKING ABOUT WITH HAVING DINNER WITH OUR KIDS, FRIENDS AND FAMILY, REALLY LISTENING TO THEIR EXPERIENCES, CREATING SPACE FOR PEOPLE TO TALK ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON, AND NOT IMMEDIATELY JUMPING TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM, BUT AGAIN, REALLY TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THIS PERSON'S EXPERIENCE IS.

WHETHER THEY'RE YOUR FRIENDS, WHETHER THEY'RE YOUR PARENTS, WHETHER THEY'RE YOUR KID, PART OF LONELINESS IS FEELING THERE IS NO PLACE TO EXPRESS THAT.

NO ONE WHO UNDERSTANDS ME.

I'M ALL BY MYSELF.

WE CREATE SPACES WHERE PEOPLE CAN FEEL HEARD, FEEL UNDERSTOOD AND THAT CAN COMBAT SOME OF THIS LONELINESS.

>> DOCTOR WITH PINEREST, WHAT DO YOU LEAVE US WITH?

>> I THINK IN THIS UNPRECEDENTED TIME, I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO BE LOOKING AT OURSELVES, LOOKING AT THE PEOPLE WE CARE ABOUT, TO MAKE SURE THEY ARE OKAY.

AND ALL IT TAKES IS A QUESTION AND SIT BACK AND LISTEN.

IF THE ANSWER IS I'M DOING FINE, OKAY, I'M HERE, IF THAT EVER CHANGES, AND I THINK NOW IS THE TIME WHEN SOME OF THE BARRIERS THAT PREVENTED PEOPLE FROM SEEKING HELP HAVE KIND OF BEEN REDUCED A LITTLE BIT.

PINEREST, WE'RE WORKING ALMOST ENTIRELY TELEHEALTH RIGHT NOW.

SO YOU DON'T HAVE TO DRIVE TO A CLINIC, SCHEDULE AROUND TIMES THAT WORK FOR YOU.

CLINICIANS HAVE LATE NIGHT OR WEEKEND HOURS NOW BECAUSE THEY'RE DOING IT FROM HOME.

USE THIS AS AN OPPORTUNITY TO START THE PROCESS OF TALKING TO SOMEONE, OF OPENING UP, OF BUILDING THE THERAPEUTIC RELATIONSHIP.

YOU CAN GO TO PINEREST.ORG TO FIND THERAPIST AND FIND OUT HOW TO GET CONNECTED.

>> EARLY INTERVENTION STILL A KEY?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

>> GREAT, THANK YOU FOR THAT.

ALICIA SPEND SOME TIME WITH FINAL COMMENTS FROM YOU AND PERHAPS AN ACTION ITEM?

>> I WOULD DEFINITELY SAY SEEKING HELP WHEN YOU NEED IT.

IF YOU FIND YOURSELF IN THE POSITION WHERE YOU'VE BEEN ABLE TO GO TO A COUPLE OF ZOOM MEETINGS OR ACTUALLY AN IN-PERSON MEETING AT ONE OF THE ALANO CLUBS AROUND TOWN AND FEEL SOMETHING IS LACKING, THERE'S A CONNECTION STILL NOT BEING MADE.

I WOULD DEFINITELY SAY NETWORK 180 IS OUR COMMUNITY MENTAL HEALTH AUTHORITY FOR KENT COUNTY.

REACH OUT.

LUCKILY, LIKE THE DOCTOR MENTIONED, A LOT OF THE BARRIERS HAVE BEEN REMOVED, SO YOU CAN CALL THE MAIN NUMBER AND SET UP A TELEPHONE APPOINTMENT OR A TELEHEALTH APPOINTMENT IF NEED BE, AND JUST GETTING CONNECTED TO THE RESOURCES YOU NEED RIGHT NOW.

THERE'S NO REASON FOR ANYBODY TO FEEL THAT HELP ISN'T THERE, BECAUSE IT IS, AND HOPE IS ALWAYS THERE.

>> CRYSTAL BALL, ARE WE TALKING ABOUT IT MORE?

>> YES.

>> YEAH, YEAH, BUT STILL WORK TO DO?

>> STILL A LOT OF WORK TO DO, AND THAT'S TOTALLY FINE, YOU KNOW?

AS LONG AS WE'RE ALL STILL BLESSED ENOUGH IT BE HERE AND BREATHING AND LEARNING, THAT'S ROOM FOR PROGRESS, ROOM FOR HOPE.

>> SEE, THAT'S THE REASON YOU PUT THAT PILLOW BEHIND YOU BECAUSE YOU KNEW YOU'D HAVE THE CLOSING COMMENTS.

30 SECONDS LEFT, I DIDN'T TOUCH THIS BUT DIDN'T HEAR DOGS BARKING IN THE BACKGROUND.

MAYBE ADOPT AN ANIMAL, MAYBE THAT WILL HELP IN A ROUND ABOUT KIND OF WAY SAYS ONE WITH THREE.

>> MY DOG IS BARKING.

>> WELL, THERE ARE EFFECTS OF THAT.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH, OBVIOUSLY FOR BOTH OF YOUR EXPERTISE IN YOUR FIELD.

ONE MORE TIME YOUR WEBSITE IS, ALICIA?

>> NETWORK 180.ORG.

>> DOCTOR?

>> PINEREST.ORG.

>> KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK, IN FRONT OF THE SCREENS, TAKE A BREAK EVERY HOUR AD THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE TO OUR WEST MICHIGAN COMMUNITY AND BEYOND.

THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU FOR WATCHING.