Making It Grow is brought to you in part by the South Carolina Department of Agriculture, certified South Carolina grown helps consumers identify, find and buy South Carolina products.

McLeod Farms in McBee, South Carolina.

This family farm offers seasonal produce including over 22 varieties of peaches.

Additional funding provided by International Paper and the South Carolina Farm Bureau Federation and Farm Bureau Insurance.

♪ [upbeat opening music] ♪ Good evening and welcome to Making It Grow .

We're so glad that you can join us tonight.

I'm Amanda McNulty, a Clemson Extension agent, and our show is a collaboration between Clemson University and SCETV.

Tonight Kerrie Roach, who has been with Clemson for a while now, is going to be making her debut on our show.

Kerrie is the Commercial Horticulture Agent up in Oconee County.

Kerrie how are things up in that chilly northern part of our state?

<Kerrie> I'm excited to be here, and things are good.

We're excited for the season to progress.

<Amanda> Great!

We'll get some more information from you later, and then oh, my goodness, I know people are just gonna be tap dancing all over the TV room because here is our wonderful Tony Melton.

Tony, welcome!

Welcome back!

We've missed you like a sore thumb, my darling.

<Tony> Oh, I'm really glad to be back, Amanda, just really looking forward to just talking to the people of South Carolina.

That's what this show does.

It gets out there to the folks, and the folks have been so good to me, Amanda.

I've been sick, and this happens to be a warmer that a local Baptist church made for me by hand and sent it to me.

I was so tickled.

It's just wonderful!

I can just sit in my easy chair and enjoy my warmer.

I just got five pounds of cards, I mean 250 or more cards that people have sent me from all over the state.

It is just so wonderful.

The great people of South Carolina, Amanda, has really touched my heart, and it's really what kept me going while I was in hospital.

<Amanda> Well Tony, you deserve every well wish and hope for improvements that could possibly come your way.

The reason people have reached out to you, is because you've opened your heart to them over the years, and thank you for being back here tonight.

We can't wait to get some information from you.

<Tony> Thank you, ma'am.

I'm enjoying being here.

Terasa Lott, of course, spends a lot of times keeping those Master Gardeners programs up and running.

I think Kerrie taught one for you awhile back on fruits, if I'm not mistaken, Terasa.

Did you get any Gardens of the Week pictures for us?

I bet things are really popping out, and you're getting some pretty entries.

<Terasa> You are correct, Amanda, on both accounts.

Kerrie was a gracious co-presenter and helped share her knowledge on fruits with our current Master Gardener class, and we did get Gardens of the Week photos.

So much fun to see what's coming in, and the landscape coming to life, so let's take a look at your submissions.

We're going to begin in Myrtle Beach where Dan Cooley sent his azaleas, which are absolutely bursting with flowers.

The Eastern Tiger Swallowtail perched atop a lylac was sent in by Gary and Nancy Feeney.

Karen Conner shared a close up of a peony flower.

Nicole Bernier sent us some assorted petunias on her porch, lots of peas in that, and Hilda Phillips sent a Volunteer petunia next to a sign that says "bloom where you're planted."

Sometimes you just have to admire the tenacity of plants to grow in a tiny space in the concrete.

It encourages me to make the most out of any situation.

Thank you for all of your submissions.

We can't use them all on television, but you can view them on our Facebook page, and I encourage you not to be shy.

Think about sending in your photo next time we make a call.

Amanda, back to you.

<Amanda> Well, that was really a fun bunch, Terasa.

Thank you so much.

Terasa, while we've got Kerrie with us, and we know that she just has taught that program on fruits and things for your Master Gardeners, have we had a question from one of our viewers that she might be able to help with?

<Terasa> Indeed, we did.

We had a viewer to write in, indicating that he absolutely loved apples, and was wondering if it's a possibility to grow apples as a home gardener.

<Amanda> Aha!

There's a real interest in everybody gardening this year, Kerrie, and of course, apples... Who doesn't like an apple?

But what's the story about growing apples in most of South Carolina?

<Kerrie> Well, Amanda, apples are definitely a tricky fruit.

We love them.

We all love them.

I grew up with them.

I do work with the seven or eight apple growers that are still commercially farming here in South Carolina, but as far as a homeowner's concerned, it's probably not a crop that I would typically recommend.

There's a lot of different challenges.

We're so hot and so humid here in South Carolina, regardless of where you are in the state, that disease pressure is just immense, and it's a lot of work, so they can be grown pretty much anywhere in the state, but are you gonna get a grocery store quality or style apple from it?

Probably not.

I think the same thing is said for peaches.

That's another one that's kind of along the same lines.

There's just the heat and humidity, the disease pressure, and then managing those insects and diseases that are problems can be very difficult when you're only managing it for one or two or even five trees.

So it definitely is a challenge.

<Amanda> Yeah, and also I feel like we like to support our commercial growers.

I mean, that's their livelihood, and so if somebody wants to just plant one just to have it out there, maybe the pollinators would enjoy the flowers or something like that, or they just like the way they look, but then when it comes to really counting on having fruit for your family, I just say we've got farmers who are working so hard, and they have the right equipment to do the spraying and all, and I just say let's support our local farmers as much as we can.

Don't you think so?

<Kerrie> Exactly.

That's a great way to support local.

We do have some apple growers here in South Carolina, and we have quite a few across the border in North Carolina, as well as we are actually the number two producing peach state in the nation.

<Amanda> Yes.

<Kerrie> So support local, and let them do the hard work, and us just enjoy the bounty, and if you want to grow one for fun, you can definitely try, and I'll help you, but it's definitely gonna be a challenge.

<Amanda> And Kerrie, do some of the farmers allow you pick ever?

Some people just like to take their children out and show them what things look like.

Is that ever a possibility in some areas?

<Kerrie> Yeah, it just depends on the farm, really.

So we commercially grow apples in Oconee, Pickens, and Greenville Counties for the most part, so just check with your local extension agent, or check with the specific farm themselves.

<Amanda> Well, thank you, Kerrie, and we're so glad that you are joining us tonight.

It's fun having you with us.

We have a good friend over in Florence.

There is a farm at a school, and they now have goats.

We're gonna tell you a little bit about that later in the show, but first we'd like to give you the background of the farm at Briggs Elementary.

♪ [cheerful music] ♪ I'm at Briggs Elementary School in Florence with some students in the Farm to School Program.

I'm gonna learn what they enjoy most about being in this program.

Is there an insect that you've learned a lot about in this program?

<Andre> Yes ma'am.

<Amanda> Tell me about it.

<Andre> A bee is innocent, and if you don't mess with a bee, it won't hurt you.

<Amanda> So you've learned to treat them with respect?

<Andre> Mmm hmm.

<Amanda> And what do bees do and make that you really enjoy?

<Andre> Honey.

<Josh> I like bees because it just looks cool, the way they pollinate the flowers.

<Jahmere> The only reason bees are important, is because they help us eat, so if bees weren't on this planet, people wouldn't be on this planet.

<Amanda> Well, tell me about the animals that you enjoy.

<Gemma> Chickens.

<Amanda> What do you like about chickens?

<Gemma> How they act and how they help our environment.

<Drake> What I like about chickens is how hard it is to catch them, then you have to run around and catch them.

[Amanda laughs] <Amanda> You have a beautiful garden right outside your school, and I bet you like to watch the plants grow.

<Jaylen> Yeah, we planted tomatoes, peppers, there were like two plants that were already growing, so we made holes and put seeds in it, and then they started growing a little bit, a tiny, tiny bit.

<Amanda> When you go out to the garden, do you sometimes taste things that are growing there?

<Ansley> We do.

<Amanda> Tell me some of the things you've tasted that you like.

<Ansley> I've tasted kale, bell peppers, and blueberries.

<Amanda> Tell me what you've tried that's in the garden.

<Bryce> Cucumbers, tomatoes, carrots, and blueberries.

<Amanda> You've tried a lot of things.

How do you like to eat your cucumbers?

<Bryce> Sometimes raw, and sometimes with vinegar.

<Cannon> I've tried a quat plant.

<Amanda> Oooh, how was it?

<Cannon> Very good, and it tasted kind of like a sweet tart, and I also had a smoothie with juice, cabbage, and frozen fruits.

<Amanda> Come on, and was it delicious?

<Cannon> Yes, ma'am.

<Amanda> Wow!

I think you two young ladies are on a special team here at Briggs.

What is that team?

<Gracie> Composting.

She's a home composter.

I'm one of the school composters.

<Amanda> Why is it important to compost?

<Cayden> It helps sustain our environment, and instead of just putting it in a landfill and letting it burn up, it can go to our garden and help us grow plants.

<Amanda> Is it good for the soil?

<Gracie> It's extremely good for the soil, because here at Briggs, we garden a lot, and Mr. Murrie also gardens over the summer, so if we have more soil, then we're better off.

<Amanda> I want to thank y'all for what y'all are doing for our environment, and we're starting off by setting a good example at Briggs Elementary School.

<Gracie> Thank you.

♪ [cheerful music] ♪ [Mr. Murrie speaking with students] <Amanda> We're at Briggs Elementary School in Florence, South Carolina.

I'm talking with Jeff Murrie.

You are perhaps the only related arts teacher who has a Farm to School program in the state.

<Mr.

Murrie> And probably the only one that's holding a chicken right now, talking to you as well.

<Amanda> This wasn't your career plan.

<Mr.

Murrie> No, it was not.

I started off as a sixth grade social studies teacher, and did that for twenty something years, and then we applied for a South Carolina Farm to School grant in 2015, and received that grant, and developed the garden that you see today.

Two years ago, we decided to take it one step further, and we started a related arts class where all the 550 students we have at Briggs, they get to come and see me one day a week, and we talk about sustainability, agriculture, the history of agriculture, and we cook, we grow, we plant, we take care of chickens, and the kids have a great time.

<Amanda> When this started, I guess traditionally you were thinking that Florence, which of course, was based on agriculture, children now don't get out and don't know anything about that, and I think first you just want to become familiar with the soil and with the whole world of how plants grow.

<Mr.

Murrie> Yeah, it's sort of sad.

We're right here in the heart of the Pee Dee, and we have an extremely strong heritage in agriculture, but most of our children and the parents of these children have very little memory or contact with being on a farm or even participating in cropping tobacco or any other type of crop, and the kids need to see where their food comes from, so they'll have a greater appreciation of food.

They also have a really great appreciation for the farmer and the amount of work that goes into bringing that crop from the field to the table, so we're trying to teach nutrition, sustainability, responsibility, climate, weather.

STEM goes into what we're doing as well, but in the end, the kids have a great time interacting with the farm, and even getting their hands dirty.

That's one of the most interesting things, is to watch a child with a trowel or a rake get into the dirt for the first time.

They're pretty scared.

<Amanda> Jeff, a lot of kids won't try anything new, and their parents say, "You don't like that."

"I'm not going to give it to you."

Is there a strong correlation between planting a seed, watching something grow, and being willing to risk a taste of something new and strange?

<Jeff Murrie> That's one of my biggest pet peeves, is that I hear parents say all the time, "We're not going to buy that."

"It costs too much, and you're not gonna like it anyway."

Then I think, has the child had the chance to even taste it yet?

And most times they haven't.

Recently we had Ben Sease from the Department of Education come and talk to the kids about growing mushrooms, and a lot of the kids had never eaten mushrooms, but we prepared them in class, and then that afternoon they went home and they said, "Mom, can we go to the grocery store?"

And the mom was like "Why are we going?"

"I need to find shiitake mushrooms."

And the mom was like, "Well, you don't eat shiitake mushrooms."

<Amanda> Lo and behold!

<Jeff Murrie> And the student was like, "Yeah, we do."

"We ate 'em today in Mr. Murrie's class."

[Amanda laughs] <Amanda> We have, sadly, a lack of physical activity and along with that, weight gain in our population, and sadly, it even reaches down to our children.

Do you feel that the overall aspect, the all-encompassing aspect of what you're trying to do here, is a way that can serve as an example, or perhaps a pattern that we could follow to try to help children learn to make better choices?

<Mr.

Murrie> That's exactly one of the things that we're trying to do.

There's so many different things that we attempt to do on a daily basis, but one of those is to teach children that the green things like you see in the garden today, especially the kale chips that we've made in class, to eat healthier, to eat more fruits and vegetables, and that is a really big part.

If they get in the garden, plant a seed, take care of a seed, nurture it, and then they get back to pick the bell pepper or the tomato from it, they just have a whole greater sense of appreciation and respect, which is also a major part of what we're trying to do.

And they learn that fast food is not where it's at.

That's what we're trying to do, is get them out of the fast food line.

<Amanda> What a remarkable school, that even in the cafeteria, you've got people allowing you to compost, and in the classrooms, everyone's bought into this, and that really ties in with what you want a lifelong lesson on sustainability.

You want these children to be the future of our planet.

<Mr.

Murrie> And that, I think, is the biggest reward that I've seen in the few years that we've been doing this at Briggs, is that children are going home educating their parents, telling their parents, "Hey, let's not throw that away."

"Let's compost that."

And one of my students, her mom and dad actually bought a small composter, and they're composting at home.

<Amanda> I think what's happening here, is instead of just giving mantras to children and having them gather for massive events, these children are, as you said, "from the ground up," learning what I think is going to be a pattern for a way of life.

I want to thank you for changing and making South Carolina better, and for encouraging all of us who see this show, to try to replicate some of the things you're doing, at least with our children at our homes.

Thank you, Jeff Murrie.

<Jeff Murrie> You're welcome, and anyone can come visit.

Come to Florence and visit the farm at Briggs and some chickens.

[Amanda laughs] [Mr. Murries's class in unison] Farm to School!

<Amanda> Well, I wish every child in the state could have a teacher like Jeff Murrie, and then every kid in the state would be willing to try new vegetables, and excited about growing things and seeing how life works outdoors.

Today I was looking for stuff for a hat, and I have a little mountain laurel in my yard, which is just this light pink which is so nice, and the pittosporum just smells like heaven right now.

If you don't have a pittosporum that blooms, you're missing out on a wonderful fragrance.

I felt like it needed some color, and Sean Flynn, our producer, and I were eating some strawberries for lunch.

I got him some strawberries, and then I went and stole some of the strawberries he was supposed to take home to his family, and put some of 'em in the hat, because I thought it needed a little red, so anyway, so I hope it's a colorful enough hat for you.

And then Terasa, now that we are so glad to have Tony back, and it's that vegetable planting time of the year, is there something, I bet you, that he could shed a little light on for us?

<Terasa> I bet Tony's phone is ringing off the hook and his email would exceed the capacity of his box.

People are so excited that he is back, able to work and serve the citizens of the state.

We have a perfect question for him.

Someone wrote in that she knows we grow commercially, sweet potatoes in the state, and was wondering if she should give it a try in her backyard.

<Tony> Yes, yes, yes, yes, instead of those apples, that are difficult to grow.

Nah, this is my snack for the evening, Amanda.

Instead of those apples that are difficult to grow, get some sweet potatoes.

They are in the morning glory family.

Morning glories love our heat and humidity and just grow, grow, grow.

The only thing you really don't want to do with sweet potatoes is give them too much nitrogen fertilizer or they'll grow all vine like a morning glory would, and not many sweet potatoes.

<Amanda> Well Tony, tell us how you could grow one at home, and how that differs from what commercial people do.

<Tony> Well, commercial people try to keep down the amount of labor, because it is a lot of labor, especially in the fresh market.

Fresh market, you've got to have pretty sweet potatoes.

You can't have sweet potatoes like this that much.

This is actually caused by cracking.

It's caused by too much water, and then too little water.

Too much water and then too little water, and the fruit swells up and cracks.

You can't have any defects.

You know how it is.

People like to have a beautiful sweet potato, or beautiful anything, any kind of fruit or whatever, so it's very difficult.

You don't want to scratch 'em up, so they have to use machineries.

Now we do have a lot of sweet potatoes being grown in South Carolina now because we have Glory.

Bruce's Sweet Potatoes, which is the world's largest sweet potatoes company, canning and all, is produced right here in South Carolina, so they grow a lot of sweet potatoes, and they harvest them.

Big harvesters don't even have to touch them by hand.

And then on a local basis, they use small little harvesters that don't scratch 'em up much.

<Amanda> Okay.

<Tony> A lot of the sweet potato growers grow their own transplants.

We call 'em slips because used to, we'd pull 'em like this, and it'd slip off the plant, and then we'd go stick that into the field, and it would root out and grow.

One of my favorite ways for homeowners to do it is to get you something like this vase, and put your sweet potato down in there, and it'll grow roots into the bottom and grow all over your kitchen, take and cut little eight inch pieces after it's grown, and put 'em into your garden, and water 'em in, and they'll live and just keep cutting them down, but I always stick the end that's away from the plant, because it only grows in one direction.

<Amanda> Really?

<Tony> It comes out at the top here as you can see.

It'll grow right outta here.

This is the end that was hooked to the sweet potato.

A sweet potato is not like our state, which is a tuber.

It is what we call an adventitious root, which is nothing but a root.

It's a swollen up, big root.

So it'll produce these runners that come out of the top of the sweet potato, which you want to put in.

Make sure you got the top end, because it'll grow only this one way, and it'll produce just runners that looks like a morning glory plant.

Then you can cut 'em six to eight pieces, and stick 'em in the garden and water 'em.

Down here, the roots will come out and grow down into the water, and then all you gotta do is just keep a little water down in here and they love it.

They grow, and they love our heat and humidity, Amanda.

<Amanda> That's wonderful!

And then they grow pretty long.

It takes a good while, but you can always peak and kind of pull back the soil and tell when it's the size that you want, and then do your harvesting, I believe.

<Tony> That's even how big growers do it.

They go in, they go dig a few of 'em up and see what size they are.

If they get too big, they're called jumbos.

Anything above three and a half each they're jumbo, so you can't... People don't want a big sweet potato because it takes forever to bake it, Amanda.

It takes you forever to cook it.

<Amanda> It heats up the kitchen, though.

<Tony> It heats up the kitchen, that's right.

So you want good medium sized sweet potatoes, and the real small ones is what a lot of...

They're called canners, because they do have the canners a lot, but you can take them and grow your plants out of 'em.

<Amanda> Tony, I was asked one time by someone, he said that the first year he grew sweet potatoes he ordered some slips, and he just got a huge crop, and he'd been saving his own potatoes, and every year he was look having like 400, I mean a couple hundred pounds less sweet potatoes, and I think that you've told me that maybe you have to try to get fresh new material because sweet potatoes can genetically modify automatically sometimes, and you don't end up with the same plant if you just keep saving from your plant year to year.

<Tony> Yes, that's right, Amanda.

What they do, they're actually natural genetic modified organisms because they naturally genetic modify themselves.

They will change colors, even inside of the fruit may change from orange to purple to white, and the outside too.

It could change and look totally different after a few years, so you have to go back to where you get...

Most farmers get certified seed or go back to the source of the seed.

I used to keep sweet potato seed.

We call the potatoes we're gonna grow to produce a transplant seed.

It don't look like a seed, but we call 'em seed, because they do produce sweet potatoes, and I used to have to produce that, and if you keep it what you want it to be, you have to go in and throw out the bad things.

<Amanda> I see.

<Tony> That's what I used to have to do.

I had to go in, and things that didn't look right, I'd throw them away, get rid of 'em, and keep what made that sweet potato that sweet potato.

Like a different sweet potato, these here are Covingtons here.

They're very good sweet potatoes, nationally known sweet potatoes.

Most of the sweet potatoes in the nation is this sweet potato here, which is Covington.

<Amanda> Tony, so if a homeowner could, rather than stave in his own or her own sweet potatoes, if they went to a good store that had fresh things coming in from commercial people and got a potato there, that would probably be a good potato to select to grow your own slips from.

<Tony> That's right, Amanda, but you don't want to do this.

If you can see real closely, see that black stuff on there?

This is one that has a disease called scurf.

<Amanda> Okay.

<Tony> Scurf, if you get a little piece of that, and you put it out in the field, all your sweet potatoes will turn like that after a year or so, because it goes into your soil, stays into your soil, so you don't... We used to pull the sweet potato.

That's why we call them slips, but it would take a little bit of that skin with it, and if you had any disease on there, it would spread it to your garden, to your fields, to whatever.

So what we always do now is just cut 'em off.

They'll still root.

They'll root fine.

<Amanda> Tony, that sure was a lot of good information, and it's a fascinating crop.

I appreciate learning so much about it.

And I told y'all earlier that we were going to head back over to Florence and go to that wonderful school.

Let's go find out about the billy goat, well, they are billy goats that are at Briggs Elementary School.

♪ [upbeat music] ♪ We are visiting one of our favorite schools, Briggs Elementary in Florence, South Carolina, and I have the great pleasure today of speaking with Jeff Murrie, and Jeff, you have a very unusual title.

You may be the only certified teacher in the state with this title.

<Jeff> Well, I'm the Farm to School Instructor at Briggs, but I'm also the Farm to School Coordinator for the district here in Florence.

<Amanda> Which has, I think, was a new position created, and this was already a charming school, but now you wanted to expand the experiences that the children had, so the first thing you did was what?

<Jeff> Well, we started off with chickens, and then we added bees.

You can't hug a bee, and secretly, I have always been interested in goats, and I just knew that we had kids that needed something to love and wrap their arms around and engage with, and so... <Amanda> More so than a chicken.

<Jeff> More so than a chicken or a bee, and so we brought these two.

This is Jolly.

This is our male, and they arrived a little over a year ago, in about the end of October, first of November, they're dwarf Nigerian goats, and they have brought us so much joy.

I never thought I could be as attached to a goat as I am these two creatures.

<Amanda> They have tremendous character and great intelligence.

I'll tell you a story, Jeff.

I was at a small ruminant workshop, and they said "You have to really have security for goats."

"They can open almost any gate."

And they left me in with the goats, and I couldn't get the darn gate open.

They had to come and open the gate for me.

They are very curious and inquisitive, and a perfect thing, I think, for your children because they don't get tired of interacting with the children, do they?

<Jeff> No, but they don't accept, I think... Holly is sitting over there in the corner.

She's taking a siesta in the corner with some sun.

She's our female.

The other thing that's just amazing about these goats is that they've never had a bath, so I tell people when they say, "Why goats?"

well you have to bathe a dog, but they don't smell.

<Amanda> They don't.

<Jeff> And they're just, they love attention, so if y'all weren't here, and I walked out the door down the way, they would immediately start crying.

They haven't cried for the past hour, but normally they're just constantly crying, wanting attention, wanting more and more.

[Amanda laughs] <Amanda> Well, and I think I spoke to some of the mothers about the program, and they said that they've noticed that their children are so much more willing to try new activities and adventure, that instead of just being... even some of the very shy children, because everybody's saying, "Well, I guess if they're all eating kale, I'm gonna eat kale."

"I guess if they're all using a chopstick, I'm gonna try to use a chopstick."

"If they're all holding a chicken..." So this must be a way that you've kind of found a way to get shy and more overly active children... <Jeff> Anxious children.

<Amanda> -well, to work together and accept each other.

Do you feel like that's been a nice offshoot of the program?

<Jeff> It's been wonderful.

Children, of course, a lot of children are afraid of a dog or they don't have a dog or a cat, which are the two normal animals that someone would have at home as pets, but when they come in here and they get to engage with the goats, and they touch some for the very first time, and they say, "Oh, my gosh, they're so soft and they're so friendly."

They just really are, and the goat pen has become another centerpiece for this entire school and neighborhood, so in the afternoons, you can see sometimes five or six different families gathered up around the pen, talking to Holly and Jolly and just spending time with them, so the great thing is they're never alone, so much so that they're really spoiled.

<Amanda> The parents have told me that they have met neighbors with whom they live maybe four or five houses apart, that this has been almost, especially during this time being outdoors, people have come, and this has been their social outlet, and they have made friends and expanded their relationships in ways that will probably carry on for years, and even children who aren't associated with the school come.

It's been a community gathering place.

<Jeff> Our school Briggs has been here since the 1950's, and we're an old school, an old building, and I'm a huge supporter and believer that new doesn't equate to better or being the best, so we have an old school, but this school has so much more that most schools don't have.

I mean, we have vegetables growing.

We have livestock.

We have chickens.

I collect eggs.

<Amanda> Composting from the cafeteria.

<Jeff> Composting, which we had to put on hold this year due to Covid, and hopefully next year, once everything gets back to normal, we will have that up and running again, but it really is a gathering place for the neighborhood.

One of the children goes to a daycare and he had to dress up as an animal the other day, so he wore his goat horns.

I think I bought some goat horns to give the kids, and he had a pair, so he wore them to his pre-kindergarten school, and the kids were all sort of picking at him going, "What is that?"

"Why are you wearing goat ears?"

and he said for Holly and Jolly.

[Amanda laughs] Well they didn't know anything about Holly... <Amanda> But by the end of the day they did.

<Jeff> They didn't know, so Smith was like, he was getting anxious and upset that the kids were like, they didn't have a clue, and so I sent his teacher a message and I said, "You need to tell your parents that everyone's welcome to come and visit Holly and Jolly" and she said, "We didn't even know y'all had goats over there."

<Amanda> And I was interested, we had some little tiny children here, and although the goats were kind of running rough shot a little bit, no one was hurt.

The goats weren't being aggressive, they just kind of got their way.

<Jeff> Right.

<Amanda> I think that's a good way to put it.

They're very in tune to the kids.

I guess they're short in stature, and a lot of our kids are equally as short in stature, so they sort of feel that they're at peace and at one with the little kids.

It's amazing that the kids that come in here, they really 98% of them come in with no fear.

They're just eager to get in here and interact with the goats.

<Amanda> Many of them, I think, come back in the evening, I think, in order to be a better teacher so you can do your classroom preparation.

You don't come back and put the goats up, which is important because goats are very easily preyed upon by dogs and certain things, so I think that you've enlisted fathers and mothers and aunts and uncles.

<Jeff> Well, the great thing... Well, how it happened was there were parents in the neighborhood, and they were like, "Do you come every night to put the goats up?"

I was like, "Yeah, but I live here too," and they're like, "But we can put the goats up for you."

I was like, "Well, it's not a problem."

"I don't mind."

"It only takes a couple of minutes."

They said, "No, no, we don't mind," And so I put a parent in charge, and she divided up the workload and so there's a whole group of parents that come each night and put the goats up, but then I realized they were more trying to get the combination to the lock in getting some one on one time with the goats to be here, but I gladly gave that responsibility over.

And then I have a father and son.

Their thing to do each Saturday and Sunday morning, they walk down here, and they let them out on the weekends.

<Amanda> Oh, how wonderful!

So it has been to me.

I just love the idea that this is a little village centered around goats.

It's been such a success, and the district, I think, has been supportive.

What do you hope might happen in the future?

<Jeff> Well, I think what we want to see is the whole concept of sustainability, especially during this time that we've been through with the pandemic, teaching children where their food comes from, being responsible, being accountable, being involved, being in touch, being in tune with their environment, being more aware of nutrition and eating fresh and eating local.

<Amanda> And I think it must also take it farther than just thinking about animals.

I would hope that it also makes them think about their fellow human beings and their needs as well, Jeff.

<Jeff> Exactly.

So empathy, caring for these animals...

They will fight to see who gets to go get the water bucket.

They will beg me to feed the chickens.

It's an absolute joy.

This Saturday, we actually have a group of adults that come once a month, and they help me mow and edge and pull weeds, just to maintain the garden, so the ultimate hope is to expand upon this concept of Farm to School and sustainability and create something much larger that would have a huge impact on the entire community in Florence and address food insecurity, nutrition, health, in general, wellbeing.

I just think that when a student grows up, and they can remember the time they spent here at school with the goats and the chickens and just being outside, will have a huge impact on their general wellbeing.

<Amanda> And Jeff, of course, Florence is known for large scale agriculture, but we are seeing already, I think, as a result of lots of years of interest in returning to the slow food movements, and then this year in particular, a way of doing farming differently, and I think your ultimate vision might lead to people raising small herds of animals for locally produced meat, locally produced poultry products, and then locally grown vegetables and fruits.

You've got some fruit trees out here.

So I think it might take that concept back to a smaller and quieter way of farming that may not be someone's full time occupation, but will become a part of their life and be so enriching.

<Jeff> Exactly, and I tell people I grew up in a household where we always had a vegetable garden in the backyard, and looking back on those early years, you think, did my parents have a vegetable garden because it was a necessity, or was it just because that's what you did?

And I think one of the roles that I have is trying to remove any stigma that exists, that having a small garden at home is not something that you have to do, it's something that you should do, and it's because that you are aware that it is something that is positive and beneficial, and so that's what I'm very appreciative, that my parents instilled in me, was that we didn't have a home garden because we had to have one, my parents just knew that was simply what one did.

<Amanda> That instead of a stigma of being poor and having to raise your own food, now having your own garden and your own pets that you... <Jeff> - and your own eggs.

<Amanda> Yes, it's an elevating factor in your life.

<Jeff> And that's a great place to be.

<Amanda> Well Jeff, I am so pleased that we were able to come and visit today.

We're still being very, very careful, and I know your students are being very, very careful as well, but this wonderful outdoor space where people can come and enjoy this magical little bit of a farm at Briggs Elementary School in Florence.

Thank you so much.

<Jeff> Well, thank y'all for coming, and if you're in Florence, please come by and visit.

Holly and Jolly are here seven days a week.

[Amanda laughs] ♪ [upbeat music] ♪ [children bleating like a goat] Jeff Murrie is sure having a good time over there with those children, and those goats were absolutely delightful, and we wish him all the best luck in the world going forward because he's got some wonderful plans, and Florence County is certainly fortunate to have him.

Terasa, Kerrie said it was kind of hard to grow apples around here.

I wonder if some of our viewers have been interested in some other fruits to grow.

<Terasa> Yes, we had a question posed that said "My family has been relatively successful at growing vegetables, but we'd like to branch out to some fruits.

Are there some easy fruits to grow here in South Carolina?"

<Amanda> Well Kerrie, sometimes it seems like nothing's easy but growing weeds, but you got some things that people generally can have some success with?

<Kerrie> Well, Amanda and Terasa, I would say I generally have a top five for South Carolina.

<Amanda> Okay.

<Kerrie> So my number five that's in that spot because it takes a lot of room, you can probably guess.

It's a pecan tree, but that one's lifespan is much longer, so you definitely have to have time for it, but as far as insects and diseases, you can choose some good quality varieties to start with and be very successful over the years, and then I would come in was number four probably following that with a persimmon.

I know I've I think I've chatted with you before.

You like the oriental persimmons.

<Amanda> The non-astringent ones.

Yeah, I love 'em.

<Kerrie> So those are a great choice.

Again, it's a tree, so it takes a little bit more room, but they're well adapted to our climate and fairly disease and insect free for a homeowner to be able to manage, so it's definitely a good one that they could choose.

<Amanda> One reason I like 'em, is that they get sweeter, the non-astringent one doesn't have to be falling apart before you eat it, but you can eat it when it's still pretty firm, and it's crisp, almost a little bit like an apple.

<Kerrie> Yeah, so our native persimmons, you definitely have to wait until they are ripe beyond ripe.

<Amanda> You sure do.

<Kerrie> Sometimes you miss that window, and somebody else comes in and takes it, the wildlife.

But yeah, definitely the oriental ones, the non-astringent ones, work a little bit better for that, for sure.

<Amanda> Okay.

<Kerrie> So then number three would probably be... two and three is a tie for me between muscadines and blueberries.

I love a good muscadine.

I am a Yankee, but I have learned to love those muscadines, and I've always loved blueberries, and so they are well adapted to the soil here.

The climate works really well for production.

Limited as far as...

There is some pruning that's required each year, but in spite of that, they're not too difficult to grow.

<Amanda> Okay, and Kerrie, I might say that a lot of times I've been to big box stores and they'll have like bunch grapes and blueberries that aren't really appropriate for here, so I like to go to HGIC and get the fact sheets and find out the recommended varieties for South Carolina, and then try to find a nursery that supplies those.

Is that what you would recommend we do?

<Kerrie> Yes, we love to hear that from our customers and the consumers because finding those varieties that are well adapted, you're typically not gonna find them at those big box stores.

You have to remember that they're shipping varieties for a very large area, and just in South Carolina, the varieties that we recommend up in the mountains are very different from those that we recommend at the coast.

<Amanda> Oh!

<Kerrie> Yeah, checking those fact sheets is a really important task before you go out to buy them.

<Amanda> Thanks.

Well what's number one?

<Kerrie> Alright, so number one is a fig.

They are just about the easiest thing to grow.

They don't take hardly any maintenance.

I mean, you just throw it out there and set it and forget it and it will fruit.

Every once in a while, we have people that call in with questions, or they're not being productive.

Even in the colder areas up in the mountains, you can put them against a brick south facing wall, and that will help retain heat and keep them from getting cold damage.

<Amanda> Well Kerrie, the only trouble I have with figs is I have to get out there early and beat the birds sometimes, because I think they really like 'em as much as we do, but fortunately, a good size fig tree has a good bit of fruit on it, doesn't it?

<Kerrie> It does.

<Amanda> Yeah, and they really are delicious.

Well Terasa, I know you are always adding... You've got a relatively new home and are adding things to it and doing some gardening.

What are some questions that you might have?

<Terasa> Well gosh, we keep talking about growing some fruit.

Fig is one thing we've considered, so now I'm feeling like maybe I should do that since it's Kerrie's number one pick for the easiest to grow.

We've also talked about blueberries.

My husband I both really enjoy blueberries.

Believe it or not, our soil is not quite acidic enough for blueberries, so we'd have to either amend the soil or grow them in containers.

So that's probably why we haven't actually gotten started yet, but speaking of fruits, we talked about what was easy to grow, and you might not think of a tomato as a fruit, although it is, and it's pretty hard to grow a nice big slicing tomato for a tomato sandwich.

One of our viewers said, "Help, I have a tomato that looked great, got to about three feet tall, nice and green, and all of a sudden it's just wilted down and it looks like it's on its deathbed.

What is going on?"

<Amanda> Well Kerrie, that sounds pretty disappointing to feel like you're on your way to a really great BLT just down the road, and then the plant collapses.

Does anything come to mind that might be the cause of that?

<Kerrie> Well, that's definitely a heartbreaker problem, for sure.

It sounds like if it's getting up to a large plant and then reduced to just nothing, that's usually southern stem blight.

You can check the base of the plant, and you'll typically see some white mold as well as little tiny, what look like BB's at the base of the plant, and those are really indicative of that southern stem blight.

We actually, in the upstate, don't have a huge problem with southern stem blight, unless it's in a greenhouse sometimes, just because of the humidity, but I think Tony probably deals with it a bit more than I do.

Tony, is this something that your growers and our home vegetable gardeners run into?

<Tony> Oh yeah, Amanda.

It's probably one of our worst problems down here in the hot part of the state.

It's called southern stem blight because it's like Southerners like myself, I can't stand that cold up north.

This heat down here, it really loves the heat, Amanda.

It grows in the heat.

It's a Southern problem.

It grows on that stem, and what it does is it grows on the organic matter in the soil for a while when it first... when the tomato plant's just starting to grow up.

It grows on the organic matter in the soil, so I hate to say it.

The more organic matter you put into the soil, the worse it can be, and so it grows on that organic matter, and then it starts rottening the stem of the tomatoes.

It goes in and attacks the tomato stem itself, and then when it eats away the outside of the tomato, that epidermis, or the outside of the tomato stem, it dies.

<Amanda> Tony, you always tell us the best thing you can do is to add organic matter, so you don't want to not have any organic matter.

Is there anything you can do to help prevent it?

<Tony> It's easy.

The homeowners should be doing it every time.

Never plant a tomato plant without putting aluminum foil about as big as my hand, Amanda, around that stem, loosely around that stem, so it can expand some.

What that aluminum foil does, is it protects that stem right at the soil level.

So the stem blight does not grow down in the soil because it has to have oxygen near the surface for it to grow.

So it won't hit down below the soil much, top of the soil, so if you've got it covered two inches deep, that stem, it will not get southern stem blight.

And never plant a tomato plant without putting aluminum foil around it.

Every homeowner should be doing that.

<Amanda> So put the aluminum foil on it, and have some of the foil on the part of the stem that's above the ground, and a little bit also below the ground.

Is that correct?

<Tony> You want at least two inches below, two inches above.

Two inches below will protect against southern stem blight.

The two inches above protect against cut worms going up and cutting your plant off.

Okay, good enough.

Well Kerrie, what are some of the things that give your growers trouble up there?

Well Amanda, we don't typically have that southern stem blight, but we fight with blossom end rot.

You get a gorgeous red or purple, or what whatever color it may be tomato, and you're ready to go out there to pick it, and all of a sudden you realize that the bottom of that tomato has just rotted out.

<Amanda> Ugh!

<Kerrie> It's almost more devastating because the tomato's there and ready to pick.

So yeah, blossom end rot tends to be one that we fight with, with our pH problems and water, so it's caused by a lack of calcium in the plant, and so calcium can either be bound by the pH being too low, or it's not mobile because there's not a consistent water source.

So making sure that you're watering consistently every day, or every other day.

You could probably get away with that, but making sure that that pH is correct and that there is a consistent water source, will typically do away with that problem, with nothing added.

<Amanda> So we often tell people that mulch can be useful in a garden, and I guess that would help conserve that soil moisture and help a little bit with that as well, could it?

<Kerrie> It would, it definitely would.

<Amanda> Okay, so when they say some plants will let 'em dry out before you water 'em, that is not the advice for tomatoes from what you're saying.

No, we have to baby that tomato.

I mean, they are definitely the hardest crop for home vegetable gardeners, for sure.

<Amanda> Terasa, I think we've got time for another quick question.

Is there something that shows up a lot?

<Terasa> Yes, so sometimes viewers tell us they have squash plants with lots of flowers but they're not seeing any fruit forming.

What could be going on?

<Amanda> Well Kerrie, you'd think if you have flowers, you'd have fruit.

What do you think the situation is?

Well, typically at the beginning of a season, you'll start to see lots of flowers, and like you said, there's just no fruit to be found.

When you look a little bit closer at those flowers, they are actually the male flowers, so male flowers come out first, and so if you just give it a little time, those female flowers will start to start to bloom and then your pollinators will come visit and do all that pollinating for you, and you can see on the back of that flower, you'll see a little fruit starting when you see the female flowers, so it's an easy way to tell the male from the female.

<Amanda> Well, I want to thank all of y'all for this wonderful, wonderful advice, and I am going to wish all of our viewers at least one or two wonderful tomatoes.

If nothing else, find a good professional grower near you, because they really know all the tricks of the trade, and do support your local farmers certified South Carolina.

If you can't grow it in your own garden, be sure, at least, it's certified South Carolina grown.

Thank y'all for being with us tonight, and we look forward to seeing you next time.

Bye-bye.

♪ [students bleating like a goat] Making It Grow is brought to you in part by the South Carolina Department of Agriculture, certified South Carolina grown helps consumers identify, find and buy South Carolina products.

McLeod Farms in McBee, South Carolina.

This family farm offers seasonal produce including over 22 varieties of peaches.

Additional funding provided by International Paper and the South Carolina Farm Bureau Federation and Farm Bureau Insurance.