(uplifting music) - [Announcer] This program is made possible through support from Bucknell University, from the Weis Center for the Performing Arts on the campus of Bucknell University in historic Lewisburg, Pennsylvania.

The Bucknell Forum presents Jake Tapper, the State of American democracy.

(audience applauding) - Thank you.

- Well, it's been about three weeks since the midterm elections.

- Yeah.

- Little interesting event still going on in a few states.

What, if anything, ha ha, surprised you about the results?

- I guess I was surprised... First of all, thank you so much for having me.

It's nice to be here.

And I know I've been told not to point her out, but a good friend of mine, his daughter is here tonight, so, you know who you are.

(audience laughing) I guess I was surprised, and maybe I shouldn't have been, at how much voters were paying attention.

And by that, I mean, if you look at the results in Arizona, the State Treasurer who's a Republican, and she's an incumbent, and not a liar about the election, about the 2020 election, she was reelected.

But every other Republican running in Arizona, from the Governor to the Attorney General, to the Senate candidate, to the Secretary of State, who were all, to a man and woman, liars about the 2020 election, liars about election security.

None of them were elected.

So, the degree to which voters were, and I certainly don't mean all voters, but enough voters, independent voters, Republicans, Democrats, the degree to which they were paying attention surprised me in a good way.

I always like to be surprised by people being discriminating and paying attention.

I knew that there were a couple forces at play.

A pollster I know, a Democratic pollster said it was the headwinds, meaning the economy's not doing great, Joe Biden's not particularly popular, it's a midterm election year, things were gonna be tough for Democrats.

It was headwinds versus, in his view, headcases.

(audience laughing) Well, this is Pennsylvania, you know what I'm talking about.

(audience laughing) The Doug Mastriano characters, the people who were out there, and not just election liars, but maybe even more extreme on other issues, and this pollster said, he wasn't sure how that was gonna play out, and how it played out is Democrats held the Senate, maybe even we'll pick up another Senate seat, I don't know, we'll see what happens Tuesday in Georgia.

And, then, Republicans took the House.

But the more extreme candidates running in swing seats or swing districts, the more election liar, you know, folks, generally speaking, did not win.

So, he had prescribed it exactly Right.

Although, I should also note that other pollsters I knew, thought it was going to be more of a headwinds election, and they were wrong.

So, look, it's always up to the voters, and we never know what's gonna happen.

And you know, at least half the time, voters surprise us.

- Is it fair to say that most of the media was surprised by the outcome?

That they expected more of a red wave or whatever phrase you want to use that was banging about?

- I don't know what most in the media thought.

I will tell you that, for me, having been a reporter in Washington for long enough, that I have sources that I think of as people I can just check in with.

Democrats and Republicans who I feel like will just be honest with me, about what they think is gonna happen.

And I will say that of that group of Democrats and Republicans, who generally speaking, when I ask them, what do you think is gonna happen, off the record, generally agree, the Democrats and the Republicans, they're looking at the same numbers.

They're reading the same polls or the same types of polls, the same expansive polls.

They generally thought it was gonna be a better night for Republicans than it ended up being.

So, don't know what the media, per se, was saying one way or the other, but that's what a lot of people thought was gonna happen.

A lot of smart people, a lot of people who I trust, and again, the voters, I think surprised them.

And look, at the end of the day, it's the great thing about America.

It's up to the voters.

It's not up to the Politburo.

It's not up to the Chinese Communist Party telling people how to vote.

It's not, you know, Vladimir Putin winning reelection with 111% of the vote.

It's, you know, at the end of the day, it really is Pennsylvanians going to the ballot box, and saying, this is what I want.

And then we just report the results.

- Follow on to that, you talk about extremism across the board, the rise of conspiracy theories, which has always been there, of course, but in the last four, eight years really seem to have grown and magnified.

Do you think they played any real role in the election results, or is that getting more air time, but really is still just a very small fringe?

- Well, I think that they turned off a lot of voters, the people pushing forward those conspiracy theories.

I think that's what happened.

Not necessarily all the voters.

I mean, I think Mastriano still won, what, 45%, 46% of the voters in Pennsylvania, but enough of the voters that mattered, the ones who decide the elections, the ones who flip back and forth.

So, I think it did play a role, and it hurt Republicans.

I saw some study that suggested that Donald Trump's endorsement was a weight subtracting five percentage points from the average Republican, and Republicans who were running, but did not have the weight of the Trump endorsement over performed by two percentage points.

So, it does seem to me, and again, you know, we're talking about, again, moderate Republicans, moderate Democrats and swing voters, independents in the middle, but those voters were paying attention, and generally wanted Republicans, but, you know, didn't want crazy Republicans.

And that's what we... That's a large part of the election results.

- Any thought or speculation about what's the origin of conspiracy theory?

Why is so many people into this now?

Is it social media?

Social media or some other phenomena, or people are looking for something that affirms who they are and what they believe, or... - Yeah, I mean, it's a lot of factors.

I mean, conspiracy theories have been a part of American politics from the beginning of American politics.

And the social media obviously plays a huge role.

And the mainstreaming of conspiracy theories by Donald Trump plays a huge role.

I mean, Donald Trump, you know, from the very beginning of his political... His political career was launched on the conspiracy theory that the first African American president was born in Africa, which is not only conspiracy theory, but also racist.

I mean, that's how he first, you know, came into the American political sphere in the 21st century.

And since then, generally speaking, he likes conspiracy theories.

He's somebody who, you know, whether it's about, I don't even wanna go through them, it's such a long list, but it's easier to say the ones that I haven't heard him endorse.

He has not endorsed the moon landing being faked, but pretty much everything else, I mean, 9-11, vaccines, Covid vaccines, I mean, on, and on, and on.

So, I mean, having an American president, mainstream conspiracy theories has made them more acceptable.

It's, like, you know, the Overton window is the degree to which a window is open to make the public discourse more accepting of views that were once thought fringe.

And Donald Trump just exploded the Overton window in American politics.

And, you know, sometimes it wasn't always a bad thing.

Like, for instance, he challenged some foreign policy notions that I think were probably a good thing.

In terms of like the eagerness with which this country goes to war, but generally speaking, a lot of it, I think, was very damaging in terms of conspiracy theories, and racism, and on, and on.

- Yeah.

So, you're a news analyst and a journalist, and you certainly are an opinion maker and sharer.

I know we just finished this election, but everyone's already thinking about two years from now.

- Mm hm.

- 2024.

As always, a third of the Senate will be up, the House, but of course it's about 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

- [Jake] Right.

- So, what are your thoughts as you sit here tonight about who is ultimately gonna be the, you know, presumably two candidates, and who prevails, and then what context will that be?

- I've given up trying to predict anything in American politics.

And I will say that I really think anything could happen.

Donald Trump could be the nominee, and he could be elected again, Joe Biden could be the nominee for his party, and be elected.

It could be neither of them.

It could be Ron DeSantis, it could be Vice President Harris.

I have absolutely no idea.

We've never been in a situation like this where we have the front runners for both parties, both of them over the age of 75, both of them so unpopular.

One of them having staged and attempted insurrection.

We are truly in unprecedented times.

And I have no idea what's going to happen.

I can tell you that there are a lot of Republicans in Washington and around the country, Republican officials, who would like to turn the page, and who think that almost any Republican could beat Joe Biden except for Donald Trump.

And, you know, Republican officials across the country have been wrong about Donald Trump and their voters before, so, who knows?

- You think Americans still trust the electoral process.

- I think the majority of Americans trust the electoral process.

I think the majority of Republican voters don't.

But that is a fraction of the American people.

And that is not based on facts.

It is based on years of lies about the integrity of the election, told to them by President Trump and his supporters.

Lies refuted over and over by, not just the news media, but by the Republican governor of Georgia, and the Republican governor of Arizona, and Republican officials in Pennsylvania, and Republican officials in Michigan and Wisconsin.

I mean, there is a trust deficit in the elections among Republican voters, but that's not because the elections are deficient, or because Republican officials writ large, especially ones with expertise in elections, have been questioning the election results.

It's because Donald Trump has been questioning the election results.

And I find it quite stunning, really, just on a practical and logical level.

There's a very conservative Republican congressman named Chip Roy, from Texas, and he offered an amendment in January, 2021 that was fairly subversive.

He basically said in this amendment, if you are objecting to the election results for president from Pennsylvania, and from Arizona, or from any other states, then you also have to object to the election of any other federal official on those same ballots, on that same day.

He basically was saying, I forget the number, but let's say seven or eight House Republicans in Pennsylvania, with one exception, Congressman Fitzpatrick from outside Philly, he was basically saying to the seven or eight Republican House members, including I'm sure the one who represents where we're sitting right now, if you don't think Joe Biden was legally elected, and lawfully elected, and legitimately elected, on the ballot in November, 2020 in Pennsylvania, in, what are we in Bison County?

What county are we in?

(audience laughing) - Union.

- Union County, we're in the Bison Valley, I don't know where, I don't know the name of the county.

(audience laughing) - [Host] We're in bison country.

- [Jake] Bison country.

- [Host] This is Union County.

- I was just making up the name of a county, but let's just say Bison County.

So, the idea that, for... Who is the congressman here?

(audience chattering) - Fred Keller.

- Okay.

Okay, Fred Keller.

You don't think Joe Biden was legitimately, lawfully, elected on this ballot then no one was, including you.

That was the amendment Chip Kelly offered.

He's a conservative Republican.

He's also a smart, very clever guy.

And he knew what he was doing, and he was basically saying, "What are you doing?

How on earth can you think that Joe Biden was illegitimately elected, and that same devious movement somehow wanted you to be in Congress?"

And to me it's just so stunningly intellectually dishonest, of course, every House Republican to whom this would've applied, voted against it.

I don't even know what to say.

And we're in this era, and it's not the first time we've been in a dishonest era in American politics, and we shouldn't pretend that it is, but it is just so stunningly bald-facedly dishonest to voters.

Why would, if there was a conspiracy, why would this conspiracy only apply to the president?

But they want to give Republicans the House.

Like, why would anyone want to do that?

That's just what they would want you to think.

Anyway, I just find it stunning.

So, yeah, we have a problem, when it comes to faith in the electoral process, but it's not a problem based on facts.

And it's not a problem based on the people who work hard to make sure that the elections in Pennsylvania and elsewhere are legitimate.

The sweet old people who give you the "I voted" stickers.

It's because of liars who have a grift in the game.

By the way, I don't think that's an opinion, what I just said.

That's just based on facts.

Like, there's nothing I said just now that, like, I think is even, like, open to debate.

The election was legitimate.

It's been litigated.

There have been court cases, people who have... Everybody's been allowed to present their evidence.

Anyway.

(audience applauding) - So, why do people still believe.

That's a tough question, I mean... - Why does people still believe it?

We are in an era of polarization, and we are in an era of partisanship that, in my view, is unhealthy to the country.

We are in an era where people don't want to listen to views that they might disagree with.

We're in an era of shouting and yelling.

We're in an era where there are news channels, I don't think CNN included, that have made a business decision to only cater to people who want to hear one thing on their one side.

And not every channel, obviously, but you know what I'm talking about.

And I think it's unhealthy.

Social media could be, for me, it is a great opportunity, as in the quote you read earlier, to hear from people with whom you might not agree or might not even be exposed to what they're thinking about.

I'm just thinking about people that I follow, whether it's an Iranian human rights activist, or a conservative, a religious conservative in Alabama.

I mean, just individuals, you could be listening to them, and hearing the world from their point of view, or why they think what they think, or believe what they believe.

But instead, so many Americans, especially a lot of people unfortunately, who are political leaders, and too many who are in news media, don't want to hear it, and don't want to acknowledge it, and demonize anybody on the other side.

And, you know, one of the things that Donald Trump speaks to, and I don't want to, please don't misunderstand me, I'm not only talking about conservatives when I make those descriptions of people only wanting to hear from one side, I think that applies to progressives and liberals as well.

But one of the things that Donald Trump spoke to was, it wasn't even the people agreed with him, they just hated the same people that Donald Trump hated.

And that's a problem in this country.

- Is it possible to cover the news in a neutral way?

- I try to, but it's difficult to do so, and in an environment where people lie, so shamelessly.

An example, look...

So, Donald Trump had dinner last week, I think it was last week, yeah, last week, with a guy who is a white supremacist, white nationalist, anti-Semite, racist, et cetera, named Nick Fuentes.

And Nick Fuentes is a horrible guy, and denies that the Holocaust happened.

And he says horrible, racist things, and he's not somebody who should be in the mainstream.

I don't even like mentioning his name in a mainstream setting like this one, because, you know, I'm sure his name has never been mentioned in this auditorium before.

But Donald Trump had dinner with him, and it's disgusting, and it's horrible.

And it took a long time, too long, before Kevin McCarthy, who's about to be the Speaker of the House to decry Nick Fuentes.

But he did.

But then he also said that Donald Trump had denounced him four times, which is, it's not true that Donald Trump has denounced him four times.

It's not true that Donald Trump has denounced him three times.

It's not true that Donald Trump has denounced him two times.

It's not true that Donald Trump has ever denounced Nick Fuentes.

So, other than that, that was a perfectly factual statement.

(audience laughing) And, what's difficult is, in an environment like this, to say that, and not have people think that you are liberal.

Nothing I just said was liberal.

We fought a world war against Nazis.

And that wasn't, like, a progressive cause.

Like, Rachel Maddow was not like a general in World War II.

(audience laughing) That was an American cause defeating the Nazis.

And, yet, saying something like, I don't think Nazis are good.

I don't think an American president or a former American president should eat with them.

And I don't think a Speaker of the House, or soon to be Speaker of the House, should lie about the President not denouncing a neo-Nazi or whatever Fuentes is.

I mean, because Donald Trump has so disrupted our political discourse, that comment, were Fox News here covering this conversation, would be interpreted as me being liberal.

There's nothing liberal about what I just said, at all, you know?

So, I don't think it's difficult to do it, but it is difficult in the polarized way that people interpret the news, to do it and not have people judge everything through, oh, he's a liberal, or oh, he's conservative, or whatever.

- Yeah, I think that monocular view that so many people have, that the number of people have a monocular view- - Yeah.

- has really grown everywhere.

And, so, the news is either this way or that way, and independent of factual matters.

- Yeah, and then social media makes it worse, because social media is a place where there just are bad faith actors, - [Host] Yeah.

- interpreting whatever they can, or lying about whatever they can for the sake of clicks or whatever.

- So, you have a Twitter account with more followers than all of us in this room put together times 10.

I'm pretty sure, 3 million folks.

- I don't think that that's a compliment though, honestly.

(audience laughing) - You obviously use social media, 3 million followers.

Two words, Elon Musk.

- Yeah.

I mean, I'm not...

He is obviously a brilliant guy in a lot of ways, in a lot of places.

In terms of SpaceX, I'm not sure about the Tesla thing, especially the driverless ones.

But he has achieved a great many things in the world, in the worlds of science and technology.

I don't know what he's doing with Twitter, because while I understand the idea that Twitter overreached, I understand the argument, I'm not saying whether I agree with it or not, but the argument that Twitter overreached, when it came to censoring, for example, the New York Post story about Hunter Biden's laptop.

I mean, was it Twitter's business to block that, or Facebook's business to block that?

I don't know, I wasn't comfortable with it at the time.

But is what he's doing an antidote to that, or is it just the pendulum swinging, you know, the other way, I don't know.

The truth of the matter is I have a difficult time gauging it because when you have as many Twitter followers as I do, it becomes very necessary to put on every quality filter you can put on so that you don't see the incredibly hateful things that people are saying about you on a day in, day out basis.

So, like, if there are more Nazis attacking me on Twitter, I wouldn't know, because I had put on so many quality filters, that I couldn't see them before.

- Right.

- My general view of speech is the antidote to bad speech is, is good speech, but I also understand that there is speech that can put people in harm's way and in danger.

And I don't know that he has hit on the winning formula yet.

And I do see him responding to a lot of people that I would charitably describe as trolls, and weighing in on their concerns.

So, I don't know.

I guess I'm just waiting to see.

It hasn't changed my experience, but, you know, like I said, I got a lot of quality filters on, I'm a white guy.

My experience is different.

- So, is the good speech antidote, that you mentioned, is that why you tweet?

- Yeah, but I have to say, I don't tweet as much as I used to, because...

I don't even retweet as much as I used to, because people are bananas.

People have just gone loopy.

Like, there was a time a few months ago that Ivanka Trump tweeted something about Jared Kushner's book, and I retweeted it 'cause I thought it was, to be honest, I, kind of, thought it was silly.

I thought it was, kind of, like a silly tweet, and, like, the left, not everybody, but like a number of people on the left acted as if, you know, I had, you know, posed with a MAGA hat, and it was like a retweet.

I used to retweet all this stuff all the time just 'cause I thought it was newsworthy, or weird, or funny or...

But now, I mean, you know, I retweeted a movie trailer today for the movie "Cocaine Bear", which looks fantastic if you haven't seen it.

It's about a bear that accidentally ingests a bunch of cocaine.

Anyway, (audience laughing) I'm not advocating that for bears or for bison.

(audience laughing) But my only point is, like, I just, I used to think of Twitter as someplace I could just retweet something, and this is, like, look at this weird thing or whatever.

And now it's just not even worth it anymore.

- [Host] Yeah.

- I mean people write story... Like, I have un-followed people on Twitter, and stories have been written about it.

It is a very bizarre world to find yourself in.

Like, I unfollowed that person because they were annoying.

Why is that news, but okay.

- I post pictures of my kids every once in a while, and that's about the extent of social media.

- I pretty much keep it to segments for my show, and Eagles tweets, Philadelphia Eagles tweets.

- So- - It's not as fun.

It used to be, like, it was much more fun, like, for me five or 10 years ago.

And whether it's the polarization, or becoming an anchor, or Trump, or whatever, It used to be a lot more enjoyable.

I'm still on it 'cause I love reading people's tweets, you know?

- So, how many people do you follow roughly?

- I think it's about 10,000, it might be more.

I mean, like, I follow a lot of people.

I really like it, and it takes a lot for me to unfollow somebody, and generally speaking, like, something will pop up, and I'm like, oh yeah, I covered that 20 years, you know, not 20, I covered that 10 years ago, 15 years ago.

Interesting, you know, whatever.

But I'm constantly learning on Twitter, which is why...

I have tried to quit social media, or Twitter specifically, but I can't because it's so informative, and so interesting and such a great way to learn about all sorts of things, and points of view that never would've occurred to me.

I was just thinking about this today.

Parker Malloy is a trans writer in Chicago, and she's constantly tweeting interesting things about the trans community that, you know, that would never even occur to me.

And that's a big part of debate in America today.

And, you know, and there's Eric Erickson, who's a very conservative Republican in Georgia, and I read him, and I mean, I just...

I'm not there to...

It's not a text chain, you know what I mean?

- Yeah.

- I have a text chain for people that think the way I do.

Who just will constantly tell me how awesome I am, and I tell them how awesome they are, and we're just constantly loving each other, and it's just wonderful.

You know what I mean?

College friends, and whatever, camp friends, and high school friends.

Twitter is just like, these are people I don't know, or I'm not a conservative Christian in Georgia, but this guy is.

I'm not a trans woman in Chicago, but she is, and, like, I'm learning, you know.

- So, you think of the phrase yellow journalism claims that the media are subverting or changing or altering or damaging American democracy are not new, but especially in the world of social media today.

What do you make about assertions that, in the end, net media is the culprit?

- Oh, I don't think the media is the culprit.

I mean, I think the media is flawed and fallible, and we screw up, and, you know, there are plenty of things about the media I don't like.

I mean most of the people in any career are average to below average.

I've said this to a group of students earlier today, but what do you call the person who graduates last in their class from medical school?

Doctor, right.

So, I mean, most reporters are average, and some are great, and some are awful and, you know, most of them are average, and it's the same with every profession.

The media, there are certainly flaws to the media, and look, we have a commerce based news media system in this country, and that has its issues as opposed to, you know, the BBC or whatever, or the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation.

But, I still think we're the best.

The American news media is the best news media in the world.

And I think there's a lot of great media, a lot of great reporters out there.

So, I would never claim infallibility, but I think we do, generally speaking, journalists do as good a job as any other profession, I think.

- What's important print media to you?

Outside of your venues what's really important for you to read?

- I mean, you know, I read and consume everything.

I'm a ravenous news consumer, and, you know, that's one of the reasons why I love Twitter is because, you know, I see what the New York Times and the Washington Post and beyond that, like, what Maggie Haberman of the New York Times, and what Ashley Parker of the Washington Post, what they're tweeting and smart people I know, smart reporters I know, but I'm constantly, you know, on the car ride here and on the car ride back, I'm listening to podcasts, and I've just gone into this new one.

It's not new, it's been around for a while, but it's called "You're Wrong About".

And it's really interesting.

It's just two smart reporters talking about...

They bone up on a subject like the Exxon Valdez spill, and just, like, talk about what really happened, and, like, what the misconceptions are that we might have.

It's just very eye opening.

I just finished Rachel Maddow's podcast called "Ultra", which is amazing.

It's about a sedition trial in the 1940s.

So, I'm just constantly downloading and listening to everything.

By the way, so one of the things I learned today, you know that image of the monk who set himself on fire during the Vietnam War, we've all seen that image.

Do you know what that monk was protesting?

Anyone?

The monk was protesting the fact...

I thought it was the monk was protesting the Vietnam War.

The monk was protesting that the United States supported a government in Vietnam that was anti Buddhist.

That's what that image is.

Which is something I did not know.

- Yeah, I didn't know that.

- And it just like makes you think, oh, I did not know.

So, you know, it makes you rethink things.

So, anyway, that's what I'm constantly trying to do to my brain, and there are a lot of really smart people out there to help me do it.

- You've moderated many debates.

I certainly hope you continue to do that.

Are debates still, maybe still is the wrong word, are debates important to the democratic process today?

- I think debates are very important.

I don't think they're the only thing that's important, but I think debates are very important, especially in the primary process.

I have not ever done a general election debate.

But I've done a few primary debates.

I worry that we're in a world now where, and maybe this won't happen, I don't know, but I worry that we're entering a world where only MSNBC will be allowed to moderate Democratic debates for the presidency, and only Fox will be allowed to moderate Republican debates for the presidency.

I worry we're there.

And that's all part of the echo chamber problem, I was expressing earlier.

I think it's a real concern.

I hope I get to do others.

The last one I did, I did a Democratic debate in Detroit in two thousand...

I guess the last debate I did was between Joe Biden and Bernie Sanders in March, 2020.

And we had to get rid of the studio audience 'cause of Covid.

And we had to replace one of the questioners because of Covid.

It was right when everything was hitting.

- Right.

- Yeah.

- Yeah, that's when we sent everyone home.

- Yeah.

- In March of 20.

- Good times.

- Yeah.

Carville, James Carville is very famous for saying it's the economy stupid.

- Yeah.

- More true than ever.

Never true.

Is that too much of an influence to the exclusion of other very important matters?

- It's simplistic, but it remains true that pocketbook issues are very important to so many Americans that the media political class often, because they don't suffer the same way, and I'm speaking in generalities here, but don't make more money than the average American politicians in Washington, and news media in Washington and New York, that there might not be the same attention to it.

So, it's a good reminder of what's important, but it is not the only issue.

And I think we saw that with the midterm election results, in which, despite high inflation, and low confidence, and approval in President Biden's handling of the economy, mixed results, because people recognized that there were other issues.

I know there were a lot of people who voted in important places like Pennsylvania and Michigan who were motivated by the Supreme Court decision overturning Roe v Wade, the Dobbs decision.

I remember hearing on election day from a Democratic Congresswoman in Michigan telling me that she had just got back from, I forgot if it was Michigan or Michigan State, I feel like it was Michigan State, where there were three hour long lines at the polling places, and they were overwhelmingly female.

And they were overwhelmingly voting, because there was a referendum on the ballot to guarantee that a woman's abortion rights, reproductive health rights, would be enshrined in the constitution of Michigan.

And there was same day voting registration in Michigan, and they didn't even know who else was on the ballot.

That was why they came out.

And when you look at the election results in Michigan, and you see how Governor Whitmer and that referendum and others performed, it's hard to argue that the economy was the only thing on people's minds.

I think it's a helpful short... Just so you know, I have a list of banned phrases for my staff that they're not allowed to put into my scripts, and if they put them in, I will take them out and say, that's on the board, and "it's the economy is stupid" is one of 'em.

But I do think it is a helpful reminder for politicians and news media.

It's just used so often by my staff.

I'm like, stop.

I could tell you some of the other, it's like, you know, measuring the drapes, popping the champagne.

These are all just the, you know.

- [Host] Yeah.

- Spread like wildfire.

A parents were worst nightmare.

Anyway.

(audience laughing) - [Host] Well said.

- [Jake] Well said.

(audience laughing) That's not one of them.

(laughing) - That was intentional, I caught you.

(both laughing) We have students in our audience tonight, but we are at a place, of course, where we exist for educating our students.

- I've been very impressed with the students I've met today.

- Thank you.

- We got to meet with a bunch.

- Thank you.

- And, yeah, I got a 13 year old and a 15 year old.

This seems like a great school.

- It is.

(audience applauding) - And they're a very healthy looking bunch.

They're very, like, they should be in catalogs.

(audience laughing) - No comment, I'm the president.

(laughs) - I said healthy.

- What do you wanna say to our students about what role they can play in the future?

Before we turn to questions from the audience, what would you say to students everywhere today, some of whom, quite understandably, have grown quite cynical about the democratic process or hopes for the future or what have you, what would you say to them?

What influence can they have?

- They can have a tremendous amount of influence.

This generation is so impressive and so smart, and I know feels more pressure than previous generations felt.

The standards that they put on themselves, the responsibilities and pressures they feel from society, I know can sometimes feel overwhelming.

But they shouldn't feel that way.

I know it's easy for me to say that, but they shouldn't feel that way.

I mean, I think that it's an incredibly impressive generation, and a lot of things can change, and I know what it's like.

It's tough to imagine now, I guess 'cause we've just all gotten so used to it.

But, I mean, when I was in, you know, starting in seventh grade up and through college, the fear of nuclear war was, I think, comparable to what students today feel about global warming.

Just this sense of dread and hopelessness.

And I realize they're not the same thing.

Obviously, one is completely in human control, and one of 'em, the damage has already been done, and society still continues to not do enough to stop, in terms of climate change.

But there is a lot that can still be done.

And I have nothing but hope for this generation.

Two of them are my kids, and they and their friends, and the kids I've met here today.

I mean, I feel nothing but hope, and I'm generally not Mr. Hope.

(audience laughing) So, I don't want them to feel that way.

I want them to feel like they can make a difference 'cause I know they can.

And I've been in their shoes feeling hopeless and worried about the future.

So, that's the advice I would give.

I think that this generation needs to be a little kinder to itself, a little more forgiving, and a little more willing to understand that there is no one who is successful, who has not experienced anguish, or frustration, or hopelessness, or sorrow, or existential dread.

No one I know.

And, you know, I know a lot of very successful people, not just journalists, but actors, and authors, and showrunners, and every one of us struggled.

Every one of us felt rejection.

Every one of us felt imposter syndrome.

Every one of us felt like we were never gonna make anything of ourselves, every one of us.

And we all made it through to the other side.

And I know the young people can do that.

I just wish you guys would just be nicer to yourselves, to yourselves, not to each other.

I think you're pretty nice to each other, but to yourselves, you need to forgive yourselves.

Let yourselves fail, let yourself struggle.

Let yourselves not always be the best at everything, and you'll get there.

I know you will.

- If faith is about belief in things not yet extant or seen, I've long said education's about faith in the future.

- Yeah.

- 'Cause we don't know what's gonna happen, but we believe in our young people.

- Yeah.

- And we believe in the efficacy of what we do, and why we do it, and how we do it, even though the manifestation of that faith will play out over decades in each student's life.

I really appreciated your answer.

It's tremendous.

I think 14 years or 13 years older than you.

I was in that generation where I was still doing duck and cover drills- - Oh my God, really.

- In New York City.

- Yeah.

- This is in fear of nuclear attack.

And I grew up in the sixties thinking, am I gonna get drafted and go to Vietnam and die?

- Yeah.

- So, that's my version of that.

And I'll never forget those moments.

Ducking under my desk in PS34 in Queens.

So, what you said meant a lot to me.

- Not to mention 9-11, I mean... - Oh yeah.

- The existential dread I felt after 9-11.

I remember tangibly sitting with my then girlfriend, and my friend Mike, and my then girlfriend, Sarah, and just feeling like, what's even the point?

- [Host] Right.

- Like, we're all gonna die in a terrorist attack tomorrow.

- [Host] Right.

- So, I just know people are worried about climate change, and I'm trying to identify, like, what that must feel like to young people today, because I think 9-11, and I think nuclear war, were that for me in my generation, but also just on a more personal level, I'm a trustee at Dartmouth where I went, and I know that mental health is an issue that universities across the country are dealing with and concerned about in terms of the student bodies.

And I know it's not as simple as be nice to yourselves, but it does start there.

It does start with self-care.

I know it's much more complicated than that.

But it does start with, "Hey, you're okay, you're gonna be okay."

- Right.

- What I like to say to you, Mr. Tapper, is I am so impressed and grateful for the efforts that you do for veterans in our country, in particular homeless veterans.

It's a searing indictment on our country that they have to go through what they go through having given up so much to protect our security and our liberty.

So, I really appreciate what you do.

- [Jake] Well, thank you.

- Yeah.

- I appreciate, it's literally the least I can do for what these people have done for us.

But, thank you.

- Thank you very much for coming out to Bucknell.

I hope that the drive was nice.

- [Jake] It was long.

- Yeah, but it's scenic, right?

- I mean, we have an airport in Hanover, that's all I'll say.

(audience laughing) It's in Lebanon, but, you know, anyway, go on.

- All right, so, first of all, my name is Mark Madison, right.

I would like to be a a political science major.

Oh, and I'm a first year.

I have a little script here- - [Jake] Okay.

- just to impress you.

(audience laughing) So, first of all, my parents love you.

Sadly, I don't get to watch you enough, but- - I just wanna say, my parents love you is something that a lot of young people tell me, and it's not the compliment you think it is.

(audience laughing) But go on.

- They like your charisma.

- It's all right.

I'll take it.

- Yeah.

So, with what you talked about mentioning I think, like, MSNBC, briefly and, like, Fox, it related to what we've actually been writing about in my, like, politics class.

So, to get to it, how do we return to close views between parties when polarization gets more people's attention and incentivizes politicians to tweak their stance.

- So, it's a good question, and thank you so much.

So, I don't know that we can get...

The goal is not to have Democrats and Republicans agreeing, or liberals and conservatives agreeing.

I think the goal is just to not have the demonization, and then obviously we need Washington DC to function.

And I think the one thing that we've just learned in the last 20 years is that this is basically a 50/50 country, at least in terms of, how the pendulum swings.

And, like, we're gonna have a Democratic president, and we're gonna have a Republican president, then we're gonna have a Democratic house, and then we're gonna have a Republican house.

And it's just, for now, it's gonna keep doing that.

And I'm not saying that's right or wrong, it just is.

So, there definitely just needs to be an ability to work together in Washington.

And there definitely needs to be an ability for, in my view, for news consumers to be able to follow the news in a way that is presenting as objective in reality as possible, and not just a reaffirmation of one's views that the other side is the devil, and there is nobody redeemable in the other party wherever you're sitting, whether that's Republicans or Democrats.

And I don't know, and it's not actually my job to figure out how to solve this problem.

I just know that I don't think it's healthy.

And the incentive structures, which you have alluded to, are in all the wrong places, or they have been in all the wrong places, where the loudest mouths and the most defamatory speakers, whether on cable news or in the House of Representatives, are often rewarded with attention.

And the only hope I can have is that some people in particular now Republicans in the House, learn the lesson of the midterms, which is, not so much with the lying, and the extremism please.

And that maybe the incentive structure can be restored to semi-normal.

But it's not entirely a new phenomenon, I should say.

Long before Trump, this was a problem.

It's not entirely a problem on the right, it's also a problem on the left.

And, so, I don't know what the solution is, but I just would implore news consumers to try to not only secure yourself and sconce yourself in an echo chamber where nothing you say or think is ever challenged.

That's my encouragement to you.

- [Mark] Thank you very much.

- Part pf the solution is what we do, it's called education.

- Yeah.

- And we have to keep affirming that.

We are almost out of time.

We have time for one more question, behind if it's short, please.

- Thank you for your question.

- Thank you, name is Sam Lasher.

I'm a History and Poli-Sci double major.

My question is very important issue in my opinion, why I've been getting about a thousand donation requests, emails and texts over the past month and a half or two months.

(Jake laughing) I probably got one from Raphael Warnock while we've been sitting in this auditorium.

So, but it really is part of a larger issue of big money in politics, and how these large super PACs are able to give so much money to some campaigns, and while other campaigns don't have that luxury.

And why- - Except what you're talking about, is the small dollar donations, which is an antidote to the big money.

- Yes, yes.

But the reason people have to ask so much for those is because the big money in politics.

- [Jake] Yeah.

- And if there was less big money in politics, it wouldn't be as much of an issue.

And I would argue that we need to overturn Citizens United, but I'm just curious what you have to say about this issue of money in politics, and also how this has created this place where people are hiring out companies to send these hundreds of emails and text messages that blow up our phones.

- They're definitely annoying.

Although one of the great advantages of being an independent is you don't get them.

So, I would say that's a solution.

(audience laughing) But I mean, you mentioned Raphael Warnock, so I assume you're a Democrat, so I assume you're in the mailing list of progressive groups, and you'll be happy or not happy to hear that Republicans have the same complaint.

I think they're more emails than they are text messages.

And there's a bunch of Republicans who are now complaining to Google that there's a conspiracy because all of their fundraising emails are going into people's spam folders, which is because their spam, (audience laughing) not because there's a conspiracy against them.

The only thing I'll say is, well, two things, well three things.

One, you're right, there's a problem of big money in politics.

And I thought we were on our way to getting to a decent place, but then two things happened.

One is, Barack Obama, blessed though he may be to many of you, opted outta the public financing system in 2008, and that helped create even more bedlam in the fundraising apparatus.

Because before that, the presidential candidates would just agree to a public financing system.

And the money race wasn't as big as it is now.

And then second of all, the Citizens United decision, which basically said the money is speech, and businesses can't be abridged from spending it.

Those two have put us in a situation that is precarious when it comes to this sort of thing.

The money issue, it's a tough one, but you know, the richest candidate doesn't necessarily always win.

And you know, I think the Trump campaign was vastly outspent in 2016, but you know, they also spent money differently, digitally as opposed to TV.

And, so, I mean, I think that could change public financing.

And then the other thing is, I'd just be careful about who you give money to.

Whether you're being solicited by Republicans, Democrats, whatever, like, make sure the money is actually going to the candidate and not to some fundraising apparatus that actually only gives 1% to the campaign.

You can make direct donations to campaigns, and to candidates.

And if you actually believe in a campaign, or a candidate, or a cause, I would find campaigns, candidates, and causes, that you support, whether it's Green Peace, or the NRA or whatever, or Raphael Warnock, or Herschel Walker, whatever.

I would, if I were you, give money directly to those groups that you support, and the individuals you support.

Because you're right, there's a ton of grift out there, a ton of it.

And they can find you on your phone, and people are more vulnerable to that than ever before.

Sorry, I couldn't solve the campaign finance problem though.

- [Sam] Thank you.

- I wish I could, but... - Well, our, our time is up.

Thank you everyone for coming tonight, Let's thank our speaker.

(audience applauding) (uplifting music) - [Announcer] This program was made possible through support from Bucknell University.