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>> Hello and welcome to HealthLine.

I'm Jennifer Blomquist.

I have the privilege of hosting the program this evening.

I'm so glad you joined us because it doesn't matter what the topic is.

You will learn something from this show and you get some free advice on top of that so nothing is free anymore except the advice you get on this show tonight.

So take advantage of that in case you're new to our program .

This is live.

We are in the studio right now as we speak and that's why we have the phone number at the bottom of the screen.

So we encourage you to call in with any questions you may have.

We have a clinical psychologist who is joining us this evening and she has been with us before and she has a wealth of information to share with you tonight.

So if you want to call and ask Dr. Washington a question, it's (969) 27 two zero.

If you're outside of Fort Wayne, it's still a free call just put an 866- in front of that number and we get you through and I want to remind you that you have two options when you call him.

One is you can ask the doctor the question live during the show which is kind of nice because she may want to get some more information from you to better answer your question so you have that opportunity to do live interaction or if you prefer to just have me ask your question for you.

You can certaily do that.

We do not just throw you on the air.

You'll talk to a very nice call screener.

They'll find out what she want to do and take it from there.

So don't don't be afraid to call please give us a call at any time.

In the meantime, let me introduce you.

I kind of I just let the cat out of the bag I didn't give you her first name is Dr. Courtney Washington and you are a clinical psychologist.

That's correct.

Yes.

Thank you so much for joining us tonight.

The topic that we're going to focus on is about building social connections, just interacting with other people.

So if you have a question along those lines or something else psychology related, Dr. Washington said that would be fine as well.

>> Give us a call.

I have to tell you, Dr. Washington, when I was looking over the notes that your office sent and just kind of contemplating, you know, what we're going to talk about I kept going back to I think this topic maybe a lot of us didn't think about it until covid hit and when we weren't able to connect socially with people I mean you could electronically you know, through the calls online and so forth, it's just not the same as sitting next to your best friend or seeing your parents or giving him a hug.

>> And so I think a lot of us now we appreciate that so much more since we didn't have it for a while.

Absolutely.

I think we did in some ways take that for granted right as part of our everyday interaction, something that we were just used to and then all of a sudden when we weren't able to have that connection and contact there was a real longing and miss that's why during covid in fact we saw mental health difficulties increase things like depression ,anxiety, substance use disorders and then we're still seeing kind of the remnants of that happening right now.

>> And I think it's it affects people of all ages.

I mean I thought maybe it would only be hardest on certain age groups, maybe like the elderly because there's so many people in nursing homes that nobody could come in to visit them.

>> But it was hard on kids too.

I mean even really little kids.

Yeah, absolutely.

When you think about little kids in their development right.

They're learning and growing and trying to figure out how to have those social interactions and so missing out on those opportunities to play with their friends, interact with other people absolutely had an impact and it's you know, the other thing is I think sometimes we do need a little bit of a long time.

I mean you and I think of course I'm a mom of six and sometimes they just kind of want to go in a closet for five minutes.

You know, sometimes you just gotta tune everybody out and I feel really guilty about it.

>> But then I read some articles that say you you can't help others if you don't help yourself or give yourself a break.

So I just need you to let me know that I shouldn't feel guilty because I do I'm sure a lot of parents do.

>> Yeah, I think they absolutely do.

That's the adage of you can't pour from an empty cup.

>> Right.

Right.

Or if you're on an airplane put your oxygen but your first is a really important one to keep in mind.

>> I think being alone isn't in and of itself bad or unhealthy.

Right.

And I like to think as well about whether or not we're introverted or extroverted and what truly energizes us and that kind of driving your decision making on how much alone time is appropriate or not for you.

>> Well, you always hear that term loner you know, and and I feel bad because we we have a son who's very introverted.

>> He's smart as a whip but you know and we worried about him and you know, we met with some health professionals just to they all you know I mean he seems happy but he doesn't like to compete, doesn't really like to talk to people that much.

And I've met other adults that way.

That is almost seems painful for them.

You know, these are perfectly intelligent college educated people they struggle with like the I like the one thing I notice is it doesn't seem like I want to look me in the eye or just seem kind of awkward or they look down when they're talking.

>> Is that is that OK for somebody to be like that?

And if you're the person interacting with them, are there certain tips that you have because it could be a coworker or something?

>> Absolutely so so first and foremost right.

Anything's OK.

It's really about figuring out what works for you and what feels comfortable for you as an individual.

>> I you know it's a typical therapist thing but I don't love the term normal.

>> Yeah right.

Oh yeah what is that right.

I actually have a client that likes to say normal is a setting the washing machine not a way people should be so nice.

>> I love that.

So I think being respectful of how people are communicating right and making sure that we're not too intensely looking or encouraging people to shift the way that they're interacting, I think it's really important to consider cultural differences right.

So for different cultures eye contact has different meanings and for some cultures not making eye contact is something that you do as a sign of respect.

>> That's interesting because I think a lot of people might take it the wrong way like if you know, at least in American culture, you know, if you're not wanting to look at somebody I think it feels uncomfortable and I thought of it it would be disrespectful.

But that's interesting to hear that some cultures don't look at it that way.

>> Yep.

So we have to be really cautious in how we're interpreting people's behavior and what value we're meaning we're putting onto it.

>> Yeah, with that being said right when we're when we're raising children or like when I teach teenagers in therapy, it's really important to also remember what are the social norms.

Right.

What is expected of you and can you go into a job interview and be taken seriously without a firm handshake and looking at someone I got wow.

>> And there are all different like we were just talking about they're all different ways to interact with people so and you do have to take into account the culture and the setting and so forth.

>> So I just want to remind everybody we only have Doctor Washington with us until just a little before eight o'clock and so take advantage of her being here.

>> She'd love to take any questions you may have maybe about connecting socially.

It's a whole new world out there with the electronics and the way we interact with people, which is what I wanted to get to next.

Maybe you want to ask a question about a coworker or family friend or something that you're dealing with yourself.

So that's why the number is going to stay up at the bottom of the screen again it's (969) 27 two zero.

It's outside of Fort Wayne.

It's 866- in front of there and we'll get you through with your question.

I did want to address the electronics issue because that is huge and I feel like some young people don't want some kids seem to be OK.

They're still outgoing and bubbly but there are so many kids that it's like pulling teeth to talk to them.

They have that phone or you know, little some kind of device that is like glued to their hand.

>> Yeah.

What's your advice on how to handle that and maybe set limits with your children?

>> So absolutely.

I mean the way that we're interacting is definitely changing the way that we're connecting with each other.

There does need to be limits and expectations.

Those set around that with more so just for kids or also for everybody, you took the words out of my mouth actually.

Right.

I think the best way that we can set those limits and expectations and hold kids accountable is make sure that we're modeling those things as well.

>> So particularly with teenagers.

Right.

Making sure that we're having screen free dinners.

>> Everyone's putting their phone up at night away from the bedroom, right?

>> Yes.

t's not healthy to have cell phones or electronics and things like that from the bedroom.

It really disrupts our sleep cycles and those kinds of things and also as a parent you have to model that otherwise you know, it's harder for them to follow through with.

>> And it's funny, you know, I always tell my kids there's somebody has to teach a class about how life used to be.

>> I'm not talking about back in colonial period.

You know, I'm just talking about in the eighties when you know, I got a phone call I I you know, I had to stand there with the cord and my grandma's cord was really long.

>> The cord at our house was really short.

Just things that you know and I'll say things like hey, you know if practice ended early you know, if I had you know, softball practice it ended early.

>> My parents were going to come and get right.

>> You know, I didn't have a way to call them or text them or anything like that.

I said so there we survived without it.

But there is a whole generation of kids, much younger adults than I am even that can't I can't imagine that.

>> So you've got that whole dynamic difference between a parent and a child or even a grandparent and grandkids.

>> Yeah, And I do think that we have to evolve with that.

Right.

We have to understand that the world is evolving in the way that we're communicating is changing.

>> I would also say particularly with teenagers, technology use can be a really big savior.

>> Right.

So I think of our folks who maybe their values don't align with their family system or perhaps they they identify as a member of an LGBTQ group.

>> Right.

And that's not welcomed in their family.

The Internet can offer some connection that they might not have otherwise.

>> So I would say some connection even if it is mostly virtual is better than none.

>> You know, I was that's the thing is I feel like some kids don't really know how to play anymore anymore like when my kids were growing up.

Our rule is you don't get a phone until freshman year high school because unfortunately you really kind of need it at that point.

>> And if you have a sports team or a club or something, it's almost expected they'll do like one of these group apps or whatever where everybody communicates and it's out it's pros and cons.

>> So you know, I'm just shocked like we'll have a lot of parents sometimes give us a hard time and say what you know your your sixth grader doesn't have a phone and I'll say no, she can use mine if she needs to.

>> But you know, once they get to high school that's when we give it to them.

But we've been given like I said, we've we've seen it from the other side where people you know, we feel like we're older parents but people will give us a hard time for not adapting to the new rules.

>> But I feel like people need to be respectful of how each family handles it to absolutely and it really is about what's best for you and your family and it aligns most with your value structures.

>> I really love that you mentioned play.

Yes, I think we take ourselves way too seriously and a lot of ways and particularly what you see with happening with schools right where everything's really structured and the elimination of free play and I think we really do value what that does for development in branes as well as kids being able to engage in playful things that involve some level of risk.

Right.

Because that teaches them how to problem solve teaches them how to figure out safety compared to kids who maybe have more helicopter parents right where they don't get to make those decisions on their own and then they get into the real world and they have those skills are they don't have those skills to be able to problem solve?

>> Yeah, it is.

We talk about getting into the real world.

We have two boys in college and and yeah.

And it's it's interesting to hear them their perception of interacting with different people and even depends on what kind work you do and what your major is and how people in that particular field tend to interact.

>> So it's a lot to take in when you're a young person.

Yeah, absolutely.

And so again I would bring us back to culture with that.

>> Right.

Because different jobs have different expectations, different roles to fill those kinds of things and all of that's rooted and in the cultural approach to problem solving or whatever it might be.

>> I was going to ask you another thing that you know, that kind of frustrated me because again, you know, I tend to be an older parent compared to the ages of my children's friends or the parents.

>> You know, the the I don't like play dates.

I just liked going to the park and you might meet some kids you really like.

I don't know if you want to talk about that and that's because my parents make fun of that too like oh are you going on a play date again?

>> And we never really did that many times.

>> Sometimes a friend from school the family would call and say Hey do you want to get together or do something?

But yeah, I feel like when I was growing up we went to the park and sometimes we met kids like sometimes kids maybe didn't get along with and you just played and called it a day that was probably good learning to write us to figure out how to negotiate when you don't fully get along with everyone I I would say that we really need a balance of structure and unstructured time even as adults.

Right.

You need routine in your life to help you stay on task and and driven and motivated but then there's also needs to be time to be spontaneous and playful and kids need that as well.

>> What are maybe some red flags that people should look for that maybe they would need to come see somebody like you if they're struggling or I don't know if this is something if you want to address first like just individually you know, if somebody you know, sometimes you might feel awkward you in a new job don't know how to handle things.

Is that something that they can talk to you about or what's a good resource I guess to handle a situation like that?

>> Yeah, absolutely.

>> I would say that first and foremost we need to normalize a little bit of feeling awkward.

Right?

Like I think there's a fair amount of anxiety particularly in youth that we're going to do something wrong or make ourselves look stupid or whatever it might be.

And realistically we don't most of don't know what we're doing most of the time and there are times that we're awkward and that's an OK thing.

It doesn't have to be, you know, a wound or an injury to your sense of self or your ego.

>> OK, now with that being said, when it becomes the point where it's really disrupting your functioning right.

>> So maybe you're avoiding going to work and you're getting in trouble for missed days or you're at risk of termination because you're having conflict with your peers at work.

Those are the times that we really need to start to be concerned and start seeking some support if it gets to that point for somebody which that would be a sad situation, can it be resolved just from talking to that one person or do you sometimes encourage a whole group of people to come in?

You know, do like I do know group therapy I guess for lack of a better word?

Yeah, absolutely.

Both are really beneficial.

>> Personally I love group therapy.

Yeah.

Both being a participant in it.

Right.

Because in order to be a good clinician you really do have to do your own work therapeutically.

Sure.

But also facilitating groups as well.

>> There's a richness that's offered from a group environment that allows people to feel connected to each other and to not feel so isolated and alone in their struggles, which is a beautiful thing to experience.

The other thing that I will say about group therapy is just like you can tell your kids one thing until you're blue in the face but if their friends say it they're more likely to listen of course.

Yeah, the same is true for our patients and clients.

OK, I can tell them over and over and over again but until you know a peer says it then they hear it differently.

>> I just want you know, because there are so many you've probably seen it a lot of sitcoms or poke fun at group therapy and sometimes it worsens the situation or people get resentful.

>> Is it hard to do people find it hard to be honest in group therapy.

I just wondered if it's a hindrance for some positive maybe for others.

>> Yeah.

I mean I think any time you're in a new social environment it's going to feel awkward and uncomfortable but the hopefully the facilitator does a good job of creating a space that allows people to play with that and try different things on.

But yeah, there are certain people that I wouldn't say won't benefit from group therapy but I would say might have a more challenging time engaging with group therapy.

>> Sure I can understand that for sure.

I just want to remind everybody they showed me a few minutes ago a car that said we have ten minutes left so we probably are down to I'm guessing six or seven minutes.

Yes, that is still plenty of time to get some questions.

And so I want to just encourage you to call (969) 27 two zero 866- in front of there in case you're outside of Fort Waynepany free call and you have to Washington again it doesn't have to be about social connectedness and so forth if you something else psychology related, she's more than welcome to or more than willing to answer that question comes to your question at any time to wrap up.

>> I know school is such a big part of everybody's life until for most people eighteen and then beyond for some and I feel like there's always it's kind of rigid sometimes like school counselors even will say things like and I know we don't like to use the word normal but you know the question anything that's outside of , you know, certain guidelines and that it it makes it frightening for the parents sometimes and today they don't always let parents into the classroom.

Now I used to be able to volunteer in the classrooms.

>> Some of the schools have done away with that and so the benefit of being in the classroom is you can kind of see the different dynamics and so when your child comes home you can kind of put what you say in perspective like well so-and-so hit me and it's like OK, you know, maybe you know that child has attention deficit issues wasn't doing it and mean spiritedness so but yeah, you know the school counselors always send notes home but I feel like sometimes it's kind of rigid.

I don't know if you have advice for parents and even grandparents and how to handle that.

>> You know that that kind of information.

Yeah, absolutely.

I mean I think we have to take the information in right.

And obviously talk to your child and try and figure out exactly what was happening, get their side of the story which was always really, really important.

I think it's important to remember as a parent or a caregiver that a lot of our social structures and systems are set up for one specific type of learning or one specific type of being in the world and we get a lot of messages from a lot of different places about how we should act, what we should think and how we should feel.

And that's often governed by things like our gender or our racial background or our education level.

>> Right.

And so when we deviate from those messages about how and who we should be that sometimes bucks the system a little bit.

>> And so one thing that I would ask parents to think about is is my child truly being disruptive in some way that could be causing harm to them or another child or is it that perhaps they have a different learning style or a different way of engaging that maybe we want to be supportive of and try and advocate for them at the schools?

>> One thing I did learn over the years we were talking about just the importance of having the connections but even just for a child to be hugged and loved.

I had a friend who adopted a child from a foreign country years ago.

It was very sad one these type of situations where the kids were in an orphanage and had no physical contact and so this little boy would physically harm himself like just like punch himself or pull his hair or bite himself.

And a family doctor was explaining that that's what happens when you don't have stimulation from other people so you know so hug your kids or you know, I had no idea how important that was, you know, that you had that that one on one we do need safe physical contact undoubtably and I think it's important to remember as well that when we have those close hugs my husband and I when we're in a tiff or whatever we say like we need a good long hug right about 20 seconds you hold and it regulates your nervous systems and sinks you up and that also leads to the release of oxytocin and a decrease in your cortisol levels which is your stress hormone and oxytocin is the attachment bonding chemical.

So hugs are very important.

There was a preschool class my daughter was in and the kids were they just got along so well that year was the last year of preschool before kindergarten and these kids on their own without any you know, coercing from the teachers or parents they would do a group hug every day.

It was so cute but yeah, it was just it was neat thing.

But I and people are kind of I think some people are not comfortable with hugs so much.

But I just wanted to ask you about that because I had no idea how extreme it can get if people don't have physical contact.

>> Yes.

It's very important to our development.

Other people I wanted to also touch to and what advice you give to people because of because electronics is such a big part of our life and there's so much of this online relationship stuff or even even groups of people that do things online how to handle that because to me that you know, it just seems weird like if I but that's the way I grew up like I just knew my friends from being with them in person or going to a meeting at church.

I can't relate to how some of these online groups go.

>> I know if you want to talk about, you know, developing a relationship that way.

Yeah.

Again, I think it's about figuring out what works best for you.

I do think that you know, I came from the AOL generation, right?

So anything online was terrifying and that person was trying to get your private information and come to your house and all of those things are different now and it is a little bit different now.

>> Yeah.

And we do also still have to teach Internet safety and the fact that it can be real dangers out there.

>> So again, initial contact or some connection is better than none if that helps you kind of get the ball rolling with me.

That's great.

Ideally it is best to connect with people.

>> The brain does register those connections differently than through the screen so as much as possible trying to get that but also not pushing people if they're uncomfortable.

>> Yeah, yeah.

It's a it's a different world.

It's I mean it was a great topic only because we do connect socially differently and we've had to adapt and so you do what you have to do hopefully we won't have another pandemic that will limit it.

>> But I think just having that whole experience it definitely made people look at it in a totally different light.

>> Yeah, I think that it has you know, I think particularly as this individualistic culture that we live in in the United States we're kind of told you don't need anybody else lift yourself up by your bootstraps, et cetera and that's just not the case.

>> We all need people we all need connection and support.

So reach out, build those bridges.

>> Sounds good.

And keep in mind that with summer coming you still need you know, that's another time sometimes it's easier to reconnect with people have a little bit of a more relaxed schedule if you have children in school.

>> So take advantage of that.

>> A lot of family reunions.

Yeah, absolutely so.

All right.

Well, Dr. Washington, thank you so much.

It's been great to have you on.

I appreciate it.

So I know I learned a lot and I'm sure everybody else watching did as well.

>> So thank you so much for having me.

Thanks for coming back.

She must have we must have not scared her away the first time because she did agree to come back.

So we'll have you back again soon.

Thank you.

Thank you and thanks again to all of you watching tonight.

There will be another show next week that will be hosted by Mark Evans and so you'll enjoy that in the meantime, I'm Jennifer Bloomquist.

Take care.

Have a great night.

There is some severe weather out there so yes, be very careful.

You're going to go out this evening.

>> Take care.

Bye bye.