Making It Grow is brought to you in part by Certified South Carolina.

This cooperative effort among farmers, retailers and the South Carolina Department of Agriculture helps consumers identify foods and agricultural products that are grown, harvested or raised right here in the Palmetto State.

McLeod Farms in McBee, South Carolina family owned and operated since 1916.

This family farm offers seasonal produce, including over 40 varieties of peaches.

Wesley Commons a full service continuing care retirement community located on more than 150 wooded acres in Greenwood, South Carolina.

Additional funding provided by the South Carolina Farm Bureau Federation and Farm Bureau Insurance and Boone Hall Farms.

♪ ♪ ♪ >> Well, good evening, and welcome to Making It Grow.

We're glad that you can join us tonight.

I'm Amanda McNulty.

I'm a Clemson horticulture agent, and I'm here with my co-host and good friend Terasa Lott, who, used to, administer the Master Gardener program.

And now you are a district director of the Midlands?

Terasa> I am, yes, very excited.

That means that I sort of oversee the office operations for nine county Extension offices.

And I'm thankful to have a wonderful group of staff.

They are really the ones who are the heart and soul of Extension and serve the public.

Amanda> And I think most people who go into Extension kind of have that interest and desire to connect with people.

I mean, it's not something for standoffish people, is it, Carmen?

(laughs) Carmen> No, you gotta like to talk to folks.

Amanda> And I think that's one of the things that makes us... We don't just say, well, that's not my that's not my job.

I mean, if it's not our job, we find out somebody who can help you.

Isn't that kind of the basis?

Terasa> Absolutely, yes.

And sometimes the questions that come in are not suited to what we do as Extension, but we try very hard to connect that client with the agency or organization that is the right fit.

Amanda> Yeah, we're servants to the people.

It's a wonderful way to spend your life.

Christopher Burtt, from all these counties down in the Lowcountry.

And you've got a great program going down there and training lots and lots of Master Gardeners.

Christopher> Absolutely.

Yeah, it's a wonderful group, wonderful area to be in, I will say.

Amanda> And I understand that Cypress Gardens is back and up and operating again.

Christopher> It sure is.

They've actually done a lot of improvements, kind of done a lot of expansions.

It's very exciting to see after the flood that we had several years ago.

They, it took them a while to recover.

Amanda> Well, you can understand.

>> Of course.

Yeah, but it's a pretty special place.

Christopher> It really is.

And you see some of the coolest, native species in the Blackwater swamp they have.

Amanda> So, you know, people are always planning these big trips and going here and there and all kind of places.

We just have such wonderful places in the state.

Christopher> We really do.

We really do.

A lot of them are kind of unknown, too.

Amanda> Yeah.

Carmen Ketron from Florence and whichever one?

Carmen> Darlington.

Amanda> Darlington.

Good for you.

And we're so glad when you can come over and help us.

And then, you've got an interesting situation at your new house.

You're planting things kind of in rows and for protection and privacy.

What else going on down there?

Carmen> We're doing all sorts of stuff at the home place.

Amanda> The home place.

(laughs) Carmen> It's a lot of fun.

We're trying out new windscreens with native plantings.

Amanda> Really?

Carmen> Yeah.

We've got lots of rain gardens going in because it is, I'm in the swamp, so.

Amanda> Whoa!

Yeah, it's a lot of fun and it's kind of exciting to have a place that I can call my own and put it down and have a nice little showpiece.

Amanda> Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, I can't wait till we can come down and visit you and show it to all of our viewers.

How about that?

Carmen> Oh, we would love to do that.

Amanda> Are we almost ready?Carmen> Almost, almost.

Amanda> Ok, ok, and we can certainly show off the little darling, too.

Yeah, she, she's a big ham, so she, she likes to smile and stream.

Amanda> Okay, and then Herrick Brown from the USC A.C. Moore Herbarium.

Herrick> Yeah.

Amanda> Thanks for coming down.

Herrick> Oh, always glad to be here.

Amanda> Yeah.

And do y'all stay busy?

>> Very busy.

We have a strong group of volunteers, usually active on Fridays.

I have a few students that are in there now, and, we've got a very closer working relationship with Department of Natural Resources.

Amanda> Oh, good.

Do y'all have enough room for all your specimens?

Herrick> No.

I'm glad you brought that up.

(laughter) So, we have just completed a strategic plan, and, that's kind of integral for us to pursue, some grant funding to help us deal with our space issues and, essentially, we're going to be trying to install a compactor system which sort of squishes all of our stored specimens into a nice, neat and orderly space.

Amanda> Really?

Herrick> Yeah.

Amanda> I mean, they're already just on a piece of paper.

Herrick> Well, it doesn't squish the physical specimens anymore.

It's more just like, the cabinets will kind of move on the system so that it's more compact.

Amanda> My word in heavens.

Well, good luck.

>> Thank you.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, because I'm sure people are bringing you things and also new things are coming in all the time.

Herrick> Yeah, absolutely.

I'm trying to think.

I know there's at least one species that we have yet to identify.

We know the genus, but it's actually a genus that's new to North America.

Typically, as native ranges around the Mediterranean and parts of Europe.

Amanda> My word!

>> But we think it may have snuck in on a container ship.

Amanda> Oh, gosh, those container ships, I declare.

Herrick> Yeah.

Amanda> Oh la la la la.

Amanda> Well, we'll have to think of something more cheerful which is that we're going to have some fun segments for you.

We're going to Doko Farm and also to Irmo Middle School, two great trips.

Terasa, I bet we have Gardens of the Week.

Terasa> We do.

This is such a fun time in the show.

It's your opportunity to show off your yard, your garden, your landscape, maybe a pretty place that you've visited in the state.

And let's see what we have submitted today.

We're going to begin with Gail and Bill Black, who shared a lovely shaded area.

And if you look very carefully at the tree trunk on the right hand side, you'll see a face that they affectionately call Mr. George.

(Amanda chuckles) From Veronica Bamberry, her pollinator garden with a mini pond featured in the center.

From Keith and Rachel Gaines, we have a foundation planting of hostas and gerbera daisies.

From Tony Vinskus, a path that is illuminated with azaleas on each side.

Rachel Gross shared her cat, Patricia, showing off their snowball bush and mock orange.

And then we wrap up with some photos shared by Hope Collins.

Amanda, you might remember Hope.

She was a former ETV Endowment intern, and she shared photos of our young fans, her children, Liddy and Liddy's younger brother, HB.

So thanks, everyone, for sharing your photos.

This is just a random sampling of what is submitted on our Facebook page.

You're welcome to go there and browse all the submissions.

And when you see us make a call for Gardens of the Week, post your photos in the comments.

Amanda> Well, thank you, Terasa, and thank you to everybody who sends things in too.

We really do appreciate it.

Well, do you think we might be able to help some people?

Terasa> I don't think, I know we are going to help some people.

First, we're going to try to help John in Edisto.

John said, My blackberry plants have not been doing well this year, and there looks like rust on the stems.

I've treated them with a copper fungicide, but to no avail.

What can I do?

Amanda> Ah, well, first of all, I think they've always told us to tell people don't do something until you know what you're treating.

I believe that's probably because, you know, you're just using something unnecessarily.

Terasa> Sometimes you can make the problem worse.

>> Yeah.

Christopher, what's going on here?

Christopher> So this is actually an interesting one that I'm seeing a lot more of.

This is not technically a disease.

It's a parasitic algae.

It's called orange felt.

Amanda> Orange felt?

(laughs) Christopher> Exactly.

It looks just like that.

So, often misidentified as rust, which is a fungal disease that affects plants in the rose family and of course, blackberries being one of them.

>> Yeah.

And unfortunately, this is one that's kind of difficult to control.

So it's not affected by copper fungicide, really.

In reality, the best thing that needs to be done, and from the pictures, we see it needs to be mulched better.

Now, so right off the bat, you need to make sure there's no weeds growing up next to it.

Amanda> So a healthy plant that's growing well sometimes won't be affected.

Christopher> Well, it will be less likely affected.

>> Okay.

Unfortunately, this is just particularly common, and what I'm seeing is, is it's with the heat and humidity, you see it a lot in the spring and summer, especially if we have kind of an early spring kind of warm up.

And unfortunately, once you start to get it, you will see decline.

It does cause the blackberries to, to start to produce less, start to flower less, be a lot less vigorous.

Oftentimes the best thing to do, there are some treatments.

They're kind of limited, especially for homeowners.

But, the best thing to do is to make sure that you're pruning consistently.

So once that cane is produced, you cut it out.

Amanda> Oh, Okay.

Christopher> And then also making sure that you are cleaning up any debris that's fallen around them, keep them nice and clear.

Keep them, lots of air and sunlight moving through that canopy is really going to be your best bet.

If you don't have it, you want to make sure everything's healthy.

Once you get it, and unfortunately, you start to go downhill pretty quick.

Amanda> So do you need to move to a different part of your yard and replant, or is it just kind of in the air?

Christopher> Yeah.

Both.

So it wouldn't be a bad idea if I decided to replace them.

I might find a better location.

The key is you want to make sure you have good airflow.

You want to have kind of good air drainage.

And so, unfortunately, if you have a spot that's prone to getting it, it's going to get it no matter what, because it is in the air.

But, but unfortunately, it's one of those things.

Once you get it, it's kind of hard to get rid of.

Amanda> You know, Terasa, when we were little, we would, had some places in the country and we would just go and pick wild blackberries all the time.

I bet you've done that too, Carmen.

Yeah, yeah.

And, do you run into blackberries when you're out botanizing?

Herrick> Yeah, definitely.

dewberries, of course.

They'll suffice in a pinch, but.

(laughter) Amanda> Blackberries are just wonderful.

Gah.

Oh.

And was such an easy backyard fruit for us for a long time.

Christopher> I think it still can be.

I think it's just less easy, unfortunately.

Amanda> Okay, well that's a nice way to say don't give up on it.

Christopher> Yes.

Amanda> Okay.

Well, thank you so much.

Christopher> Of course.

Amanda> Terasa?

Terasa> Let's see who else we can assist today.

Johnny from Aynor wrote in and said, I've seen some information about growing tomatoes in grow bags.

Is this a good idea and is there any special care required?

Amanda> Well, I mean, I guess it would be easy, but I've always thought tomatoes needed a fair amount of root space.

Carmen, what would you think?

Carmen> Yes, most tomatoes do, and, but grow bags.

They're the hot new topic.

I've got lots of home growers that have switched out plastic containers for these fabric bags.

>> Yes.

And they, they're very nice.

A lot of people like it because of the lightweight, that they can grab it and go.

Amanda> And less plastic.

Carmen> Less plastic.

And they can just fold them up and put them away for, if you don't have a garage space.

Amanda> Now, let me just ask you one thing.

How do you sanitize 'em?

Do you dip them in bleach, or?

>> So that's the big problem.

You can do a spot spray with bleach, but because of that fabric, any of your fungal diseases have the chance that they're actually just going to overwinter if your plants get sick.

Additionally, these only last for about 3 or 4 seasons, at least the ones that I've, I've tried out, but they're very nice.

The one problem you have to worry about is, with this fabric, you have 360 degrees of open air.

It can actually dry out the plant.

So a lot of the time you're having to water once, maybe twice a day, because it dries.

The soil dries out so fast.

Additionally, with big plants, tomatoes, peppers, things like that, a lot of the time you need to stake them.

And this just does not hold.

A lot of the times when I was trying different stakes, I was ripping holes right in the middle, right down the bottom.

Amanda> Gosh, and you've already spent a fair amount of money.

Carmen> Yeah, but they're very nice for things like salad greens and radishes, stuff like that.

So it's a very nice product.

But, what I worry about with the tomatoes is in the heat of the summer, it's going to get hot.

It's going to be a lot of work.

So, six and one half dozen or the other, really.

But they are very nice and they fold up very well.

So very good on, on those fronts.

Amanda> You know, I just, tomatoes are so hard these days to me.

I just do cherry tomatoes.

I would think, I mean, maybe you could do cherry tomatoes in them.

Carmen> Yes.

Or some type of a dwarf patio variety that stays nice and low.

Maybe some type of a determinant that just bushes out and you're done.

Those would probably be really great that don't require as much staking or maintenance.

Amanda> So not the best idea.

Carmen> For tomatoes, I would, I would take a pass on it.

Amanda> You know, and I'm just going to say, you know, we have so many people now who are growing things and making them available to the public.

And I just think supporting our local farmers, and, you know, they're not necessarily, you know, like the John's Island tomatoes which we used to talk about, which would be one variety.

But now a lot of people, Terasa, I think, are growing on smaller spaces are growing more heirlooms and things like that.

And so, I just think, you know, support our local South Carolina agriculturists.

Terasa> It's very important.

Yes.

And there, should be fresh produce available, in many more places now, whereas people might have had to travel more.

And the South Carolina Department of Agriculture's website has resources so people can locate Certified South Carolina Grown close to them.

Amanda> Yep yep yep.

And the and rather than just go to the I mean, I love having a grocery store to go to, but, you know, but think when things are just from South Carolina, there's less of a footprint of, you know, being hauled or flown or whatever.

So yeah, it's just great to support local farmers.

Well, we certainly got off on a tangent, didn't we?

But I think it's a good tangent to have gotten off.

Well, thanks so much for that information.

I really appreciate it.

Well, Terasa?

Terasa> We have Herrick here from the herbarium, and I think he has some interesting plants to share that have been reclassified due to some kind of genetic information.

Amanda> Ooh, la la la la.

(laughter) Well, what have we got?

Herrick> So, I brought in some things that folks might refer to affectionately as mother in law's tongue.

Amanda> Oh, because they're pointed.

(laughing) Sharp.

>> Yeah, so another another that would be yes, the snake plant, I think some folks would call this.

And, so this is one that probably most folks would see.

I think it's called -- Amanda> Yeah.

This is a yeah.

Herrick> Sansevieria Amanda> But you said it's not Sansevieria.

Herrick> Well, it isn't, and here's another one's that's a little bit different.

This is one called, it's a Masoniana.

It's a, it comes from the Congo region.

Amanda> Whoa!

Really?

Fascinating.

>> Yeah.

But, so, largely, plant taxonomists would classify these things in that genus that I just mentioned, based on their growth habit being sort of rhyzomatous.

So they have the stem that's underground.

It's, you can't really see it because it's down in these pots.

But maybe if I tilt this one a little bit, we can look down in there and -- >> That's good.

Herrick> You can see, you can sort of see the rhizome kind of growing through there.

And then the leaves just are the only things that emerge.

Well, so, the plant taxonomists, they like to look really closely at these things.

They say, well, maybe we can't base our decisions just on the growth habit alone.

And they said, well, there's this other group of plants that has a really similar looking inflorescence.

Now, this is a real scrappy specimen.

>> Doesn't look like anything at all like these.

>> Yeah.

One of my neighbors threw this out, okay?

So, I rescued it.

But it is in the genus Dracaena, which is Greek for mother of dragons or female dragon.

So essentially, what they've done now, they've decided that based on chloroplast DNA that these two different types of plants, one's rhyzomatous, one has sort of an arborescent trunk above the ground, are actually in the same genus, Dracaena.

Amanda> Ooh, mothers.

(laughs) Herrick> Mother in law's tongue, mother dragons, yeah, so.

(laughter) Terasa> Mother of millions.

(laughter) Amanda> Now, these are ones that you often see in really shady spots, and they're, even if you don't water them, they usually look pretty good.

>> Right.

So do they have different care requirements?

Herrick> I would think so.

Like, Dracaena, arborescent ones I've always let those, when I'm growing them, I let them dry out a little bit in between.

I don't keep them soaked all the time.

Amanda> But these can go forever.

>> Yeah.

The the snake plant, or mother in law's tongue, it can handle pretty dry spells.

And I have, like, in this one, I have a lot of rocks and stuff, so it drains really well.

Amanda> Okay.

okay.

Herrick> And they're hardy too.

They can handle a light frost.

So, on a couple of occasions, I've planted them as a border in the ground in my yard.

And, of course, when freeze comes in, I dig them up.

Amanda> Oh, okay.

You know, the kids are out in L.A. And we go out there at Christmas, and this is planted everywhere outdoors in Los Angeles.

Terasa> How about that?

It's fun to travel to different places.

Amanda> And see what they use, yeah, because it, you know, I don't think the children even took...

They may have a sweater, maybe, in Los Angeles.

(laughter) Well, that's so much fun.

Thank you so much.

And I'm sorry that they, you know, keep changing everything around, but I guess it's good for our minds to have to learn new things, but, um, I'm losing things as much as always.

(laughs) That's great.

Okay.

Thanks, Herrick.

Well, we have so much fun looking at places that are on the Ag and Art Tour.

And one of them that we went to visit was Doko Farms.

And you're gonna have a great time there too.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ I'm talking to Amanda Jones.

I'm at her farm Doko Farms in Blythewood, South Carolina and Amanda y'all have decided to specialize in heritage breeds, I think.

How did that come about?

>> That's right.

Well, before we moved back to start the farm, I was originally a field biologist, and so it turns out that hogs are just like land seals and poultry is kind of like a marine bird and it just transferred really naturally.

When we first moved back and opened in 2007, and we opened the farm in 2009, we tried a little bit of everything.

We were growing fresh flowers, cut flowers, herbs, veggies.

We had some fruit.

We had eggs from our chicken and we quickly learned that we couldn't be all things for all people, and we narrowed down the scope of our farm to what we do best, and that turned out to be heritage breeds on pasture.

Amanda>...and if I can explain for a minute that you and your husband met in California.

You were from California, and but this farm was actually a family farm for him.

So can we go back to how he's come to heritage breed himself?

Amanda Jones> Yeah, so the original part of the farm house and the farm by extension was built by my husband, Joe's great, great grandfather.

and every generation of our family since then has lived at least part of their life in the farmhouse, our children our the sixth generation to call this home, and almost every generation has farmed here, as well.

It's skipped a generation with his parents.

Amanda> This wasn't ever a farm where you had row crops out near where near Cedar Creek, and it's hilly and heavily forested, and so there's not a lot of just flat arable land.

and so did that make it better for you to make some of the choices that you did about making it a place for animals rather than just crops in the ground?

Amanda Jones> Definitely, we do have a small annual garden and that's about the only flat mostly at this point after 6, 5, 6 generations rock free area.

We do have a lot of field rocks as well.

In fact, the foundation of our house is field rocks from the farm, but again, we were looking for a source of sustainably and humanely raised meat for our family, and we weren't really able to find that at the time.

and so we decided that if that's something that we wanted to have in our diet, we would do that ourselves.

Amanda> There's a lot of crowing (ba ba ba ba ba) going on around here.

So let's start with the chickens and turkeys.

Can we?

Amanda Jones> Absolutely.

So we raised Buckeye heritage chickens.

They're a dual breed of chicken, dual purpose breed which means we are raising them for both meat and eggs.

With the heritage breeds and this is true for all the breeds, they are bred for a long, productive outdoor life.

So they're on pasture.

Our chickens are on pasture for 16 weeks or more, which is double more than double sometimes that of a Cornish Cross.

Amanda> Your son decided that he wanted a little sideline.

So let's talk about his chickens.

Amanda Jones> He did.

He brought another breed of chicken onto the farm.

He has Americanas, which lay a really pretty blue and sometimes green tinted egg and so our egg CSA customers get a really beautiful variation of color in their egg cartons each week.

Amanda>...and at Thanksgiving, y'all have people who sign up way, way, way in advance for a Heritage Turkey, I believe.

Let's hear about that.

Amanda Jones> That's right.

So we raise Narragansett Heritage turkeys.

The original stock for that is a cross between a black Spanish and a wild turkey.

So they're able to run, fly, forage for up to 60% of their diet, and they live for 28 weeks on our pasture, ready just in the nick of time for Thanksgiving, and again, without long sustained growth, you get amazing depth of flavor.

Amanda> With these small chickens and turkeys out you need some protection because we know they have coyotes around, and I believe you have some special dogs that help you keep the animals safe.

Amanda Jones> We do.

We have Great Pyrenees livestock Guardian dogs.

We miss-timed a little bit starting our next, our next group of security dogs, and our older dogs aged out before this next group was quite ready.

So we do have a three year old working dog on pasture.

He's great with poultry.

He watches the skies for hawks and black vultures, and then behind me here we have Tonx, who is a year old and is still working through some of her puppy issues but she'll, she'll get there.

Amanda> The dogs also helped protect some of the other animals.

You've got some sheep here that are an unusual sheep, at least to me.

Amanda Jones> Right, so we raise St. Croix heritage sheep.

They're a hair variety of sheep, which means they naturally shed their winter coats in the spring.

When sheep are domesticated, they were selected either for wool production or meat production, and these were specifically selected for their sweet, mild flavored meat, and like their name suggests the original breeding stock came to this country from St. Croix which like South Carolina is a hot humid environment.

So they're well adapted to our climate and they also have a higher level of parasite resistance which helps as well here in South Carolina.

Amanda> You also have a type of heritage hog or pig.

What can you tell me about them?

Amanda Jones> So we raised Guinea hogs, which were the homesteading hog in the southeast.

They're a small, black lard type of pig.

That flat coat and skin really helps them with sun protection, though we do run ours mostly in the woods, in some fenced areas of woods we have and also they help with some privet knocking back some invasive privet that we have here on the farm.

They're known for their leaf lard, their leaf fat, which is prized by pastry chefs.

and they also have a well marbled again those lard qualities, dark red meats.

So this isn't the other white meat from the pork commercials of our youth.

Amanda> You've told us that there's not a lot of land for your vegetable garden, although you do work hard on that, but so you've decided to find a way to use some of the trees and garden under them.

Amanda Jones> Right.

So, we do have a little bit of an edible forest garden that we started here at the farm.

Our land naturally wants to be a forest so instead of fighting that, we're working with it and we have an overstory of pecan and nut trees with an understory of some native fruits like Paw Paws and persimmons, and also perennial vegetables.

We have sorrel growing there as well as some pollinator plants for our native pollinators and some medicinal herbs as well.

Amanda> I think everyone now is getting involved in community supported agriculture and trying to help spread that story, and y'all have some days when people are invited to the farm when you provide educational opportunities.

Can you tell me about those, please?

Amanda Jones> Absolutely.

So, we do three free community events throughout the year.

We host a spring farm fest with a farmer Olympics It's a chance for people to come together and compete for prizes and to be crowned our Farm Olympic champions for the year.

We also with the Farm Spring Fest have farmer led guided tours of Doko Farm, as well as some farmer led workshops.

We invite other small local sustainable farms to join us and that's really just a way for us to celebrate a new growing season and bring everyone together.

In the summer, we are one of the Richland County Ag and Art tour stops.

The Ag and Art tour is a multi weekend, multi stop farm tour, and that's a time where artisans come out to the farm and bring all their beautiful creations.

It brings a very diverse and fun mix of people out to our farm.

For that event, we host our locally famous chicken races, which is just more farm shenanigans that we can we can get into.

and then our third event is our harvest market, where, again, we invite others out to our farm to tour the farm, but also pick up everything they need for their holidays.

Amanda>...and I think that there's a active group of farm kids, you've said and your kids have picked up a skill that they can show up as their art form, I believe.

Amanda Jones> They do.

So they have... a few different skill sets, but the one that they like to do at Spring farm fest is Balloon Art.

So they've been working on their balloon bunnies, they also do some pretty good poodles and cats and hats, Amanda> I think it's wonderful that you're finding a way to keep this family property in agriculture, and as you said, it's like a conservation spot going all the way down to the creek, and also, you're able to continue the sustainability that has always been a part of farming here.

I want to thank you for letting us come and tell your story today.

Amanda Jones> Thank you so much.

It's been a pleasure.

♪ Doko Farms was really fun.

Chasing chickens is kind of a fruitless task, but, and I think they're on the Ag and Art Tour again this year.

And, I mean, the Ag Tourism and Ag and Art Tour is so much fun.

I do think you should look it up.

There's so many fascinating places to go and see, and, and they're so welcoming when you come.

So do look it up.

Well, hats, hats, hats.

So, so I had some, walked out in the garden and there was some larkspur and some phlox.

And then another thing that I planted years ago and don't even know what it was, but, I think it made kind of a pretty hat.

So, that was, whew, got that done, Terasa, how about that?

Terasa> That's good.

You know, people, they ask, they they miss it if you don't have your hat on.

Amanda> Well, I have it on.

Okay?

(laughter) The back of my car has this giant basket in it that has all these different jars and things.

I think sometimes I leave the water in there.

They even get mosquitos.

But I need to be, I need to be more careful.

(laughter) All righty.

Well, can we help some more people with questions or problems?

Terasa> Yes, we can.

So this appears to be another hot topic Clemson mentioned, or Carmen mentioned, the grow bags are kind of a growing trend.

Well, Tammy in Lexington said, I am planting a garden for pollinators, specifically butterflies.

Where do I start?

So that trend in, supporting pollinators or, gardening with wildlife in mind, I think has been an increasing popularity.

Amanda> Yeah, yeah.

Christopher, you have some suggestions?

Christopher> Yeah.

So I actually prepared ahead of time.

So one of the first things to address is butterflies actually are what's known, they have co-evolved with certain plants, and they prefer these plants to reproduce on.

And so I have brought several different types.

And to kind of explain, these are what's known as host plants.

>> All right.

And so oftentimes when we think of pollinators we think of flowers, we think of supporting that nectar, pollen, all that.

And those are all very important.

But there are a lot of plants that we oftentimes don't think about.

And so these are what's known as host plants.

And, of course, host plants are going to be plants that butterflies or even moths, and they're, they're of course included in that.

They're going to find and they're going to lay eggs on those eggs are going to hatch, those caterpillars are going to emerge, and they're going to feed on the plant.

Amanda> And their specific plants means certain butterfly, Lepidoptera can only their, their, larva can only exist on, eat certain plants.

>> Exactly.

And, of course, one of them that I have up here -- Amanda> I mean, some of them are generalists, but others are not.

Christopher> Yeah.

So, so one of them I have up here and I'll move it over, milkweed.

>> Yes.

Most people are familiar when you think of butterflies, you think of milkweed.

but this is, of course, a group of plants that monarch butterflies generally are going to only go for.

Christopher> So when they lay their eggs, they're going to go after milkweed.

Milkweed helps to prevent them from being predated by birds.

And so it's that chemical that, of course, is in there.

Amanda> That latexy white stuff that comes out?

Christopher> Exactly.

That's a very good example.

There's actually several different ones that are like that.

I've got right here Passiflora, which is passion vine -- >> Yes.

a really cool native plant that we have several native species we have, this one, of course, Gulf fritillaries are going to go after.

Amanda> And they'll just eat it.

They will tear it up, but, you know, when you start seeing those Gulf fritillaries flying around, you can kind of appreciate why you planted that in the first place.

And it's such a vigorous vine.

Amanda> It comes back.

It doesn't hurt it.

Christopher> Exactly, and, of course, I've got right here, this is kind of a little bit more unusual plant, rue.

Oh, but if you ever grow any citrus, you'll see oftentimes what looks to be bird poop, which is just a giant swallowtail caterpillar.

Amanda> Come on!

Kind of looks, again, like, yeah, bird poop.

And, of course, the rutaceae family, if you don't have any citrus, you can always plant something like rue, which will help support it.

And we do have a couple of native species that will also support it.

It's not a big family here.

but that's a really cool, and, of course, one of my favorites, which is pipevine, the pipevine swallowtail.

>> Yes.

This is Dutchman's pipe, which is kind of a really interesting group of plants.

And, of course, as you move down, you'll notice there's a lot of swallowtails, but, of course, the black swallowtail loves plants in the carrot family.

>> Yes.

And I've got dill and fennel in the front, but in the back I have Golden Alexander.

Amanda> Oh, put that up so we can see it a little better.

Christopher> This, I think, is a much more exciting zizia aurea.

Golden Alexander is actually several species.

But this is a really cool kind of shade garden perennial.

Amanda> Really?

A perennial?

Christopher> And, of course, in the same family, really good for supporting those black swallowtails, and I always like to mention, of course, the grasses.

So I've got creeping blue stem here, but there's so many different species of native grasses.

A lot of skippers are supported this way, but it also helps to support wildlife in general.

Amanda> And I don't think of native grasses generally when I'm thinking of things for lepidoptera.

Christopher> Exactly, yet they are supporting quite a lot.

And so if I'm just starting the first thing, what I really want to start looking into is what, what host plants can I get?

and I always encourage, kind of go native first.

But if you can't do the natives, obviously herbs are a great way to go.

But there's so many different plants you can get into.

And once you start getting down that rabbit hole, then you can start seeing all the different native trees that support caterpillars and lepidopterans, and so it's a very exciting group and, kind of one that I myself have definitely planted for.

>> Okay, well, I think that's just fascinating.

So, you know, we think of, you know, rudbeckia and echinacea, you know, kind of limited, but it could be very varied.

Christopher> It really can.

Amanda> And some sun to shade.

Christopher> Exactly.

I mean, you can essentially have your entire yard supporting caterpillars.

Terasa> Diversity really is the key.

I think you summarized it here.

>> Yes, yes.

Terasa> We have diversity, and we should really strive for a diversity of plants on our landscapes.

>> And, Terasa, you and I talk frequently about Doug Tallamy, Bringing Nature Home, who has made us all aware of host plants and all that and how important it is.

And I believe he's coming to South Carolina.

Terasa> He is.

Yes.

Very exciting.

He will be at Riverbanks Zoo and Garden on May the 16th, 2024.

Amanda> Okay.

Yeah.

I've heard him speak, and I always learn when I go back and hear him again.

So, I'm looking forward to learning even more.

Terasa> Yes, he is a fantastic speaker.

Very easy to listen to, very passionate about what he does.

Truly, I would say, a naturalist at heart.

Amanda> Terasa, maybe I'll see you at Doug Tallamy's talk.

It might be fun for us.

Well, Edward had a birthday recently.

Edward is my husband of 53 years.

That's a long time.

Anyway... And, Conrad always sends cool presents.

Conrad is one of our children, and, so he sent this box of bananas.

Well, you know, we get bananas all the time, but these are the old Gros Michel bananas that were the staple banana that everybody grew.

Bananas, as I understand it, are from Southeast Asia.

And then a botanist brought this in, like, the 1600s, to an island in the Caribbean.

And then, and then it got to be in Central America.

They grow these bananas, and, then, Christopher, since you are a disease expert, I think something terrible happened.

Christopher> Yeah.

So they got a fungal disease that attacked the roots.

It was a type of Fusarium, I believe.

And it spread quickly, unfortunately.

Amanda> Yeah.

So, anyway, so this is, you can...

There's a place in Florida that grows these, and you can order them.

And they came in a big box, real green.

And we had, it was supposed to be 70 degrees.

We put them on top of the fridge, climb up and then look at them, and then they, when they get ripe like this, you're supposed to eat them.

I thought maybe you would like to try them.

They're delicious.

And, but, when that wonderful, when the disease came, this wonderful banana started being hard to get.

And so that gave rise to, a very famous song that Carmen and all of us will sing in just a minute.

I'll push this down.

Terasa> I'm not sure our viewers are ready for that.

(laughter) Herrick> All right, Carmen.

Amanda> It's really got a more complex flavor to me.

Terasa> I notice they are much smaller than traditional bananas.

And I'm curious, maybe Herrick could share.

What's the difference between a banana and a plantain?

Herrick> Well, that might just be at the species level.

Like the typical bananas that we'd eat in the supermarket the Cavendish bananas, are actually a hybrid between something called Musa balbisiana and Musa acuminata.

Amanda> And apparently, they used to be larger.

But the way that they grow them now, you can't treat that fungus.

And so they just have to be really careful about the growing conditions that I think they've tried to avoid adding anything.

So they may fertilize less and do less.

So they're smaller.

But anyway, so when there was a dearth of them that gave rise to a very famous song, which I thought was very famous, not everybody.

Carmen had to learn it.

And so shall we sing a verse?

(all singing) ♪ So yes, we have no bananas.

♪ ♪ We have no bananas today.

♪ Amanda> Duh - duh (clapping) Anyways, I thought that, apparently there was a fruit vendor in New York City, and, when you came by, he'd say, yes, we have onions.

Yes, we have this.

And then he just started everything with "Yes."

And then he went, yes, but we have no bananas.

So I think that's kind of fun.

Anyway, what did y'all think about the way it tasted?

Terasa> I thought it was more flavorful.

Amanda> Yeah, I think it was well worth, you know, having it shipped up here.

And always fun to learn something new.

I'm sure John is probably eating them all the time.

If you're gonna see him, maybe I'll send one home with you and you can, I'll send the green one home.

Terasa> He'd be disappointed, because he usually brings things for us to taste test.

Amanda> I know, yeah, we'll turn the tables, how 'bout that?

Amanda> All righty.

Okay.

Ah, well, Terasa, can we do, have somebody else?

Terasa> Right, well, let's see what else we have to look at.

How about, this is sort of in my area of the state, Richard in Lamar said, can you tell me when and how to divide grassy perennials?

Amanda> Grassy perennials?

Well, Carmen?

Carmen> I can do it, yeah.

Amanda> Can you do that?

Okay.

Carmen> So.

Amanda> So by grassy perennials, you mean things that the foliage looks grass like, kind of.

Carmen> Yes, and a lot of these sprays, the native perennials, just like Christopher was talking about, they're actually very important for all of our pollinators.

But, one of the things that a lot of people talk about is, oh, man, they're so expensive to get some of our native grasses.

How can I make this go the extra mile?

And, well, one like this, this blue eyed grass, you could actually probably split this up into a couple different pieces, and plant them out.

And they're actually quite easy.

But people get so nervous.

They don't want to hurt their new babies.

But one of the easiest ways that Christopher and I were talking about is we usually dunk this right into a bucket of water and gently just remove all that soil, and then you can very nicely, just kind of tease.

Amanda> Oh, because you can see where the roots are.

Carmen> Yeah, and just teasing out those pieces really work a lot easier.

And sometimes I'll just take a big old knife and cut them right down the center, but just very gently teasing that apart, you can have a nice little, nice pieces.

Amanda> A couple of little plugs, yeah.

Carmen> And then you can actually just spread them out, put them in the ground, or you can put them back in some potting soil to kind of nurse them along, but it's actually quite easy.

They normally will split out just like you want them to, and they'll go their own separate ways.

So they'll tell you what you, how they want to be split up.

Just let them do the talking.

Amanda> Okay.

And I love blue eyed grass, Sisyrinchium, or something like that.

>> Yes.

But tell us what color the eye actually is if you get a look at it.

Carmen> If you look really close, that's a yellow eye.

(laughter) It might have blue eyed grass, but that's a yellow eye right in the center.

Amanda> It's a fun thing to talk about, isn't it?

Common names can be fun.

Amanda> Well, thank you.

That's just wonderful.

Loved learning that.

Thank you.

Carmen, can I have a piece to put in my hat?

Carmen> Of course.

Amanda> Thank you.

Carmen> Oh, that one's gorgeous.

Okay.

Amanda> Oh, that's mighty pretty.

Well, Terasa, who can we help next?

Terasa> You know, we get a lot of questions about plant identification, so it only seems fitting -- Amanda> Yes it does.

Terasa> -- that we see if maybe Herrick can share some tricks that people might not be aware of.

Amanda> And, tell people that one of the services y'all have at the, at the herbarium is plant identification.

Herrick> Right.

Yeah, so we offer free plant identification services.

You can just send an email and digital image of your mystery plant to plantman@herbarium.org.

Amanda> Okay, okay.

So what are we going to talk about?

Well, I was gonna talk about the internal characteristics of a lot of plants.

So, on the surface, you know, we might look at some plants and you just see the leaves and the stem.

Amanda> And the flowers are always nice.

Herrick> Yeah, the flowers are always nice, but you can always look sometimes at the internal anatomy to give you some clues.

Now, this is something that we might know as like wild lettuce.

and it is known for a couple of things.

One is if I carefully now sort of fillet this stem open, you can see it is hollow.

It's completely hollow.

Amanda> Dang, it sure is.

Herrick> And don't confuse it with milkweed, but it does have this white sort of sap that we would call latex.

>> Okay.

So that's, you know, one little kind of thing.

You can always open up a plant if you don't really know what it is.

Amanda> So I guess wild lettuce isn't something we eat if it's got that milky substance.

>> Yeah, probably, probably not something you want to try.

But, so, that's got a nice hollow stem.

There's one that some folks, and I probably shouldn't advocate eating this plant too much.

Amanda> Well, everybody used to.

Herrick> Yeah.

This thing is, it's pretty toxic when it, when it's this size.

This is, poke salad, or, I think some folks might call it poke berry, but again, it's got -- Amanda> Poke Salad Annie.

Herrick> Yeah, it's got an interesting pith, too.

If I fillet this, it's kind of interesting.

Amanda> Ooooh!

You can see it's sort of chambered.

Looks like little, what we call diaphragms or chambers in there.

It's pretty interesting.

Amanda> That's fascinating.

Herrick> Yeah, yeah.

>> Ooh.

So this kind of chambered pith is something that's real characteristic of black walnuts.

And black walnuts look a lot like pecans and hickories and so on.

So if you really want to kind of figure out the difference, the one way to figure out the black walnut is just to kind of open up that stem and see if you have a chambered pith.

Amanda> If it's little enough.

Herrick> Yeah.

Yeah.

Exactly.

Yeah.

Not a whole tree, but just a twig.

So yeah, we can open up stuff like that and kind of get some clues as to what the plants are based on that.

Amanda> Whoa.

Okay.

Well, that was a lot of fun.

Thank you so much.

Okay.

We're now going to go to the Irmo Middle School and see their fascinating pollinator garden.

♪ Group> Welcome to the pollinator garden.

>> This is a brochure that students have put together to talk about the monarch butterflies.

>> The monarch butterflies are very crucial for our environment and ecosystem, and there are over 150 crops in the US that are going to be necessary for pollination.

It's what the monarchs do.

Jermainee> and without our crops been, we might not survive.

So it's good that monarchs are pollinating our crops.

>> In the beginning of the year, we learned that the butterflies come from Canada, down through the US into Mexico, and they just they stay there through the winter, and just go back when they're ready after winter.

>> Throughout the year, we tag monarch butterflies.

First we capture them in the garden, and we tag them carefully on the wings with these marking tags.

This - the tags are not harmful at all.

They go carefully on the wing and we capture them to make sure that we can see if any of our monarchs that we find within the garden are recovered in Mexico.

Rey Brooks>...and in order for those monarchs to have a stable and normal migration process, they have to have certain kinds of milkweed.

So whenever they come through South Carolina, there are three native species of milkweed, we have Asclepias incarnata, also known as swamp milkweed, You have Tuberosa, also known as butterfly milkweed, and there's syriaca, also known as common milkweed.

Jermainee>...but unfortunately, monarchs are endangered or are declining for a variety of reasons.

Ashley> So basically, the milkweed supply is just running low, and without those plants, they are the only like resource for the monarchs to be able to lay their eggs, which means without the milkweed plants, then they won't be able to keep reproducing, and are going to leave our plants just unpollinated.

Jermainee> but there are ways that you can help with the monarchs.

You can plant milkweed, which is their host plant, as you know.

Amanda> I'm at Irmo Middle School and I'm speaking with Will Green, who's a seventh grade science teacher, you have my condolences and congratulations for being able to do that.

>> Thank you.

I appreciate that.

We need those for sure.

<Amanda> and we're sitting in front of a pollinator garden, and you got the idea to put this in, I imagine based on the fact that the monarch butterflies need our support.

Will> That's right.

All pollinators need our support, but we were especially interested in having a garden that featured milkweed, which is a monarch's host plant, and then we also have some other things in the garden, but the main focus is three species of native milkweed that we have in this garden, specifically designed for the monarchs, but again, pollinators in general, visit the garden.

Amanda> I know that's a lovely thing to do, to support the ecology of the world of North and South America, but I've enjoyed talking with some of your students, and learning about how each one has a different reason that this garden is so interesting to them, and what makes them want to come and work with it.

So can you talk about some of the spin offs, I think that is the surprising thing you told me that happened as well?

Will> Right.

So this, the garden is one part of the overall work that we do.

It's all intended to give the kids a chance to take action to become passionate about something and to take action on some, some real issues that, you know, that they can become just interested in and learn more about, and it's cool for the kids, because sometimes I'm learning right alongside them and, and they get a chance to plug into the work in lots of different ways.

Some of them love the idea and the action of coming out and catching butterflies catching monarchs in the garden and tagging them, <Amanda> - and when they tag them, that was very peculiar.

It's kind of like putting a sticker on a banana.

Tell me about that.

Will> That's right.

The technology has changed over the years, it used to be just some adhesive you put on a piece of paper and stick it on the wing, and now the technology has led us to a sticker that similar to something you would find on produce at the grocery store, and it has a little unique code and a website that people can go to, and the idea is that we find out where our monarchs, monarchs that are on the east coast, where they migrate to, because they don't all migrate to Mexico, like the ones in the Midwest that funnel down through Mexico and into the mountains of Mexico.

So, the idea is that maybe we can, you know, figure out where our monarchs are heading to.

Amanda>...and monarchs leave Mexico, that's where they spend their winter, and they come up, and you see a few sometimes on that upward migration, but the majority of the ones you see, are coming down in August, I believe.

Will> Yeah, that's right.

So, you know, as they migrate, there's different generations, you know, four, some even believe, maybe five generations in between and, there's a super organism that is genetically different than the others.

There's the one that migrates to Mexico and roosts over winter and then migrates back, but we see the majority of our monarchs around the late August, September beginning of October time, and that's when we do our tagging, Amanda> That's perfect, because that's when the kids are back in school.

>> That's exactly right.

So we hit the ground running at the beginning of the year, and we introduced them to this issue of pollinators in general, but monarchs specifically, and the decline in their numbers and why that's happening, and so the kids right off the bat, just get really deep into understanding why this work is important.

and that they are going to, you know, become a part of it, and then have a chance to take action.

We have had, you know, kids go to the Irmo Town Council and to present to them to ask for their support, and partner with us to get milkweed out into the community, specifically to see the parks and the gardens in the town of Irmo.

We've had kids that, you know, they take part in terms of, you know, art projects, Amanda> Your signs are just great.

Will> Exactly, and to make the signs, you know, that spread awareness, because that's one of our ultimate goals, is to spread awareness of the issue.

You know, the signs take a student that's gifted in the arts and, being artistic, and it takes a kid that, that, you know, is good at research and processing information and putting it in words that are theirs, but also, you know, it explains and educates the public with whatever topic they want to educate them about.

So, we're proud of our signs and the fact that students created them.

Amanda> - but in your greenhouse, y'all have a program where you raised bedding plants, and also the milkweed, and make them available to the public at some time, and I believe a lot of the children really like greenhouse work.

Will> That's right, they do, and you know, we have students in there that have never put their hands in soil before, and so they are really excited to be able to do that and learn the process of planting seeds and transplanting and we teach them how to root different things.

Our science fair projects actually have come from work that we do in the greenhouse, and we get this real relevant scientific data that we can actually use and put into practice, you know, with our work the next year.

So it's good stuff, and we realized that, you know, our efforts to get milkweed into the community is, you know, that's the primary focus of the greenhouse, but we also raise other plants as well and they are able to plant some vegetables in the raised beds that we have and some of them you know, get to harvest the vegetables and take them home.

So, there's a lot of things to do for a lot of students.

Amanda> - and one of the things that's fun is of course, you've got the Gulf Fritillary, and so they learn about mimicry and some other scientific principles.

Will> That's right.

Yeah.

So, passion vine sort of planted itself in our garden, and that's the host plant for the fritillaries.

and so we get lots of fritillaries in the garden, and one of the things that they learn is the difference in flight for monarchs and fritillaries, as I like to say the fritillaries just kind of fritillary along and they flap their wings a lot, where monarchs will flap their wings and then glide, and so they're able to identify the difference, and they learn that the milkweed has cardenolides in it, which are toxins that the monarchs uptake, and that is a defense mechanism for them, and since they are orange, the other orange butterflies like fritillary sort of get this mimicry defense because they resemble monarchs to some of the predators that might, you know, might want to munch on them.

<Amanda> Y'all send kids out with nets sometimes, because although most of what happens naturally here in the garden, but you do bring some of the caterpillars inside so that you can watch the process and they got to come out here and figure out which orange butterfly I'm supposed to catch.

Will> That's exactly right.

Yeah.

So students come out, and they will bring Monarch caterpillars back into the classroom just so we can observe them and watch them, and they will go through their lifecycle in there, and we can tag them from inside the classroom, in addition to catching them, the adults out here and tagging those, and sure they will, they have to know the difference in fritillaries and Monarchs because we don't tag anything but monarchs, Amanda> I think you have a partner who's instrumental in this.

Will> I do.

Yeah, I do.

So Cacie Davenport is our seventh grade science teacher, and she is right in there with me, and doing all of this work, and so we work together as a team to make sure that our students are able to participate and get all of the same experiences, you know, that we have to offer here in the garden, and also the greenhouse work as well.

Amanda> I'd like to put in a plug for both y'all because I believe y'all have, you have 9 months appointments or whatever it is, and yet, y'all are here in the summer, when it's really hot and I'm happy, a time to be outside in South Carolina, both of y'all are over here, spending time in the garden, and you have a true commitment to enlarging the life of your students and also being involved in the natural world.

Thank you so much.

Will> Yeah, I appreciate that.

It's...I can't do this alone.

I appreciate and I'm extremely grateful for her help.

It is a lot of hard work.

We do put in a lot of hours, but to see the kids just get really passionate about something and, you know, understand that they may carry this from their seventh grade year on to the rest of their life and have an appreciation for gardening, an appreciation for pollinators, monarchs specifically.

You know, that's why we do this work.

Amanda> - and if people want to know more about this at all the good things that happen at Irmo Middle School, what's the best way to find out?

Will> Well, it's easy, they can just go to Irmo Middle School's website, and there's a link on the website that will get them to all the information about our work and all of the things that we're doing out here related to monarchs and milkweed.

Amanda> I've had a grand time.

Thank you for inviting us.

Will> Thank you so much for coming.

(students cheering) Amanda> The kids there were so nice.

We really appreciated their joining in and helping us, too, and we thank you for being with us.

And we hope that we'll see you next week right here for Making It Grow.

Night night.

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