Narrator> Making It Grow is brought to you in part by Certified South Carolina.

This cooperative effort among farmers, retailers and the South Carolina Department of Agriculture helps consumers identify foods and agricultural products that are grown, harvested or raised right here in the Palmetto State.

McLeod Farms in McBee, South Carolina, family owned and operated since 1916.

This family farm offers seasonal produce, including over 40 varieties of peaches.

Wesley Commons, a full service continuing care retirement community located on more than 150 wooded acres in Greenwood, South Carolina.

Additional funding provided by the South Carolina Farm Bureau Federation and Farm Bureau Insurance and Boone Hall Farms.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ Amanda> Well, good evening, and welcome to Making It Grow .

We sure are glad that you can be with us tonight.

I'm Amanda McNulty.

I'm a horticulture agent.

And I come over with my co-host Terasa Lott.

Terasa, what would we do without you?

Terasa> No, you're too sweet.

Amanda> Thank you for all your help.

Terasa> Too sweet.

It's always a team effort, for sure.

Amanda> Yeah.

And Terasa's the Midlands District Director.

And that means that you're based in Sumter, which is so nice because it's just right down the road.

Terasa> Yes.

It worked out perfectly and actually was strategic when I planned which county would serve as my home office.

Amanda> Oh, you got to pick, Terasa> I did.

Amanda> Yeah, but you should fit a great bunch of people to work with all of them are great.

But, Pat, we got to admit, Terasa> Fantastic.

Yeah Amanda> She's pretty high up on the scale.

Anyway.

And, so thanks for everything that you do.

Terasa> I'm happy to be here.

I always look forward to being a part of Making It Grow and, working with our viewers, especially through our Facebook page.

Amanda> Hannah Mikell is an Agronomy Agent.

That means she deals with field crops.

That means things that you grow a lot of instead of just a little garden.

Although, I mean, plenty of vegetable crops are grown on large acreages, too.

Hannah> They are, they are and we have seen with our fluctuating commodity prices, some of them have actually picked up some row crop, field crop type, like, - what is it?

Sweet potatoes.

That would be more of maybe your area.

Amanda> Well, and cucumbers where I am.

Hannah> Yes.

Amanda> A lot of the field, a lot of the big farmers are growing cucumbers at certain times.

But apparently it's kind of tricky about getting them harvested because if it rains, they get real big because I think they're growing them for the pickling industry.

Hannah> That's right.

Yes.

Yeah.

We're very fortunate to have a cannery nearby and some great outlets for fresh market produce.

Amanda> Isn't that wonderful?

Hannah> It is.

Yeah.

Amanda> I love pickles.

Anyway, so thanks for being with us.

Hannah> You're welcome.

Amanda> I sure do.

And Carmen Ketron is a Horticulture Agent down in Darlington and Florence.

And she's also the mother of a precious little girl.

Carmen> Yes, I am Amanda> We love hearing updates on that little child.

Carmen> She's good.

She's doing good.

She's walking.

She's running.

Running through the fields.

Amanda> Yeah, well... (laughs) And she, has a wonderful yard to run around in.

Carmen> Yes, yes she does.

We were actually in town at a family friend's house, and she just bolted into the street, and I realized I was like, 'Oh, no, "I haven't trained you for streets.'

We live on a dirt road, so it's a whole... we got to get her acclimated to the city life.

Amanda> City life.

Yeah.

Okay.

Well, thank you for coming today.

We sure appreciate it.

And John Nelson is the retired Curator of the Herbarium at the University of South Carolina Dr. John> Indeed.

Amanda> We are so happy that you can still come down and help us.

Dr. John> I'm glad to be here.

Amanda> And Herrick's happy that you can still come up there and help him.

Dr. John> I love to help up there, up...at the herbarium, and I still have time for some field work.

Amanda> Yep, yep.

Still carrying that press around?

Dr. John> Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

Amanda> All right.

Dr. John> Got to have a press.

Amanda> Yeah.

Dr. John> Plant press.

Amanda> Okay.

All right.

Well, Thanks, everybody.

And, Terasa, do we have some, "Gardens of the Week?"

Terasa> Absolutely.

We do.

This is your time to show everyone what's growing in your yard or garden.

Or maybe you've captured a photo of a beautiful place in South Carolina, of which we have many.

Today, we begin our journey with Takiko Kline, who shared a glimpse of a new pollinator garden started this past spring, and it looks like it's well on its way.

From Jared Magun a patch of cheerful Blackeyed Susans.

It always just reminds me of sunshine seeing that bright yellow.

From Linda Olson, bumblebees foraging on mint flowers.

And she titled that "Sharing is Caring."

Oh, from Mary Crawford, our state butterfly, the Eastern Tiger Swallowtail perched on a zinnia.

And last but not least, from Julie Brown, we have bees and butterflies foraging on what is often referred to as Autumn Joy sedum.

But I think it's now in a completely different genus Hylotelephium, I think is what it's called now.

Dr. John is, he's like, hmmm.

Amanda> Can't we just stick with the common name?

(laughing) Let's just stick with the common name.

Terasa> That's right.

Thanks everyone for sharing your photos.

Remember, this is just a small sampling of the many that are submitted.

We encourage you to view all of them on our Facebook page and to post your photos when you see that call for "Gardens of the Week."

Amanda> John admonished me and said, "No, we have to learn the new names."

So.

Terasa> And sometimes it might depend on the audience.

So if we're a group of botanists, we should speak in the most updated scientific names.

But in the trade, in the nursery trade, you'll probably see the more common names to linger, I would expect.

Amanda> Okay.

Well, it's a nice plant and pretty drought resistant, I think.

Terasa> Uh hmm.

Amanda> Yeah.

Okay.

Well, we're going to have some things for you to watch a little later.

Faith Israel, who's one of our food and nutrition specialists.

She's going to talk about canning.

There's a big resurgence in canning.

Everybody likes to do it now.

And then we're going to have the Catahoula Flutes.

That was such a fun time.

I got to go and learn all about those flutes (mimics flute sounds) And so, Terasa, I bet you have some questions for us.

Terasa> We do.

We begin with a question from Mary Margaret in Smoaks, who said, "I know soybeans are grown near me, "but I'm wondering what part of the plant "is actually harvested.

"And is this the same as edamame?"

That's a good question.

Amanda> Yes, it is.

Hannah> It is.

It's a fully loaded question.

(laughing) Just so happens I have some soybean plants.

So this time of year, they're starting to, fill the pods and there's different groups of soybeans.

I don't know if you would like to.... Carmen> Yes, I would love to touch them.

Hannah> Pass those down.

Dr. John> Oh, yeah.

Hannah> So I brought a couple that... You can see they have actual beans in there.

I don't know if you can, you can view it.

And y'all are welcome to pop a couple open.

But the little pods are kind of fuzzy and- Amanda> -They are, Hannah> cute.

Edamame is actually a lot larger than this.

And you're hitting the edamame right when it's at a full peak.

So Amanda> Is it a different variety?

Hannah> It is.

Yeah.

Totally different than what we grow here.

Ours is mainly for grain.

And so- Amanda> These are delicious.

Hannah> They're not too bad, are they?

Amanda> They're good.

Hannah> Yeah.

One way to test, if they're actually ready to be harvested or not, is when the plants start to turn and drop their leaves, and they, they look like they're actually dead.

They, they, they start that senescing process.

We have to pop open the pods and see where the moisture is.

Amanda> Oh!

Hannah> So when I first started, I saw the growers, they pop open the pods and stick one of the beans in their mouth... and I was like, 'what in the world, what are they doing?'

They chew it and they spit it out and they'd be like, oh, it's about 30%.

(indiscernible speech) What in the world.

And so- Amanda> An oral test.

Hannah> Right That's right.

But when, our mills like to take it at about 15 and a half.

So, when they start getting a little bit lower, that's whenever we're able to harvest.

Amanda> So you don't want it to have too much moisture because it might not dry properly.

Hannah> That's right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

We don't want any hot spots in our bins.

that, creates like a clogging up effect, and all this other kind of stuff.

And so, the mills really can't take it and process it for food, for the chickens and other livestock, if it's, if it's too big like that, or too, too lush and too much moisture.

Amanda> Well, is soybean used in...in our food too?

Hannah> Yes.

There's a lot of soy bio-diesel.

There's all these different, product derivatives that you can have from soybeans.

Yes.

Amanda> And, and where I live in Saint Matthews.

Luther Banks Wannamaker was always doing very interesting things.

And he was growing black soybeans for the Asian market.

Hannah> Black soybeans.

Really?

That's very interesting.

It might be that was one that they used for like fermenting- Amanda> And it might have been for special festivals and things, you know, I mean, you know, how we- Hannah>-Maybe.

I know he used to dabble in quite a bit of different things.

Amanda> Yeah.

Yeah.

He was a very curious gentleman.

Hannah> Yeah.

Yeah.

Dr. John> Wasn't that where they get tofu?

Hannah> Yes it is.

Yes.

Y'all are asking me about a lot of different things that I don't quite... am as familiar with.

But I think that there, there are all these different products that when I just look at the soybean crops in the field, I mean, I have to know a plethora of different information for the... you know, soybean loopers or any type of nematodes that feed on their roots.

That being said, I did clip some.

They look kind of gnarly, but when you, when you look at these soybeans are a legume.

So they have these little nitrogen fixing.

Yeah.

Amanda> Little devices.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Carmen> Little nodules.

Hannah> Thank you.

Nodules that are on the plants.

And so you can see if you.. You use a pocketknife or your fingernail, you can actually open one up.

And when they're, they're hollow that's, that's been used up.

But when they're pink inside those are still fixing nitrogen.

Amanda> Oh.

Hannah> White is almost there.

Pink is...

They're kind of getting to the right stage.

This one's actually all been used up, but, they're really hard to see.

So you kind of have to inspect it on your own.

There's a lot of different, nitrogen fixing legumes out there.

Clover is one.

Amanda> Peanuts.

Hannah> Peanuts.

That's correct.

Yes.

But we also run into issues with nematodes.

And nematodes will, especially root-knot nematode.

I don't know if you're familiar with them as much, but they, they will make the roots look all gnarly and crazy.

So, these look great.

These are actually a pretty well developed root system.

But when we start limiting our root growth and uptake of nutrients and water, we start limiting what our plants can do up top.

So we really want to make sure that when we look at harvesting, right before we harvest any spots in the field that look like they're cutting out early, maybe turning a little too quickly.

Amanda> Yes.

>>And they're not all senescing, dropping their leaves at the same time, that could be a nematode hot spot, or maybe a wet area that's kind of come out- Amanda> -of Carolina Bay.

Hannah> Yes, yes.

That's correct.

So yeah, it's an interesting crop you can kind of watch it.

Amanda> Tell me, but it seems to me that when I was familiar with people who would do a lot of planning, they had a pretty big window during which they could plant soybeans.

Hannah> That's correct.

Yeah.

Amanda> Is that right?

Hannah> There is, there is a huge window.

And that's really interesting you ask this, because Clarendon where I work, was one of the first places in the state where we actually started planting soybeans right at the very end of corn harvest.

Amanda> Oh, goodness.

Hannah> There's a couple very inventive farmers that started with, they harvested corn early.

So they harvested- Amanda> So that would be when?

When do they harvest the corn?

Hannah> So they would like to start around like the 25th or so of July.

But we want to make sure the moisture is low enough and we, we start harvesting on irrigated fields.

This might be a whole another segment because I can go deep in the weeds on this, but so when they start harvesting the corn, they'll then take it to the dryer, run it through the dryer, and as soon as that combine comes to the field, they come in with a planter and they start planting this.

So you can theoretically, if it's under water, which is better, you would start planting those right after corn in, like late July and they stop by August 10th.

But if you're planting- Amanda> -Can they still make a crop?

Hannah> Yeah, you can.

They say if they make 25 bushels or a little more.

They're actually still kind of going to make a profit, even that late season.

So the idea is to get those soybeans in and out before the frost really gets them, or have them produced before the frost hits them.

Amanda> You know, we have a lot of growth taking place in South Carolina and a lot of rural and farmland that's being converted into other sources.

And I think that deer, very, very, very much like to eat soybeans.

And I guess that's going to become more of a pressure because the other places that they might have eaten but are not going to be available to them.

Hannah> Very, very true.

We saw during the drought with whatever soybean growth we were getting this summer that if they were developing and growing like they should, the deer were in their browsing even heavier during the drought period.

Dr. Cory Heaton, our livestock... wildlife specialists, not livestock, although they... deer feel like livestock in some areas, he says that one, for every buck you want to kill about ten, ten and a half, 11 does (deer).

So really under the proper management in a overpopulated area, which we have quite a bit of now, we need to be properly managing that.

And there's a bunch of different incentives that DNR has to help with that.

Amanda> Okay.

And, we made some chili last night.

My friend who has deer hunting that takes place on his property, usually gets a deer for me and has it turned into what looks, seems like hamburger.

And, it's really quite delicious.

And we had a real nice supper with red beans and, you know, and deer meat and... with fowl or chili or something like that.

Hannah> You can disguise deer meat in just about anything.

Amanda> It really is Yeah, yeah.

Hannah> But I failed to mention that the soybean, and I didn't think I answered your question, the soybean planting does take place around the end of April, all the way through the beginning of or end of June, even.

So, yeah, you can spread it out.

The way we like to do it is we make ourselves able to, to harvest some different intervals.

So we have different early, mid and late maturing varieties.

Amanda> Oh okay.

Okay.

Okay.

Great.

Well it's a good crop for us.

And like you said, it adds, nitrogen to the soil.

So the next crop may not need as much fertilizer.

Hannah> Right.

Hopefully corn.

Amanda> Okay.

Goodness gracious.

Well Terasa.

Terasa> Well, I'm excited about the next question because it might give me some ideas.

James wrote in from Loris and said, "I feel like mums are overused in the fall.

Do you have some alternate ideas?"

Amanda> Well, Carmen, I think you do.

Carmen> Yes, I do, because every year we end up, having these poor people calling in, saying that "their mums have died because they've forgotten to water it one weekend," and it's just a mess.

And, you know, for mums on a porch, they're lovely.

But we can get more creative, especially in fall.

Everyone thinks that fall is a warm time or like a time that you don't really have that much great stuff, but it really is quite lovely.

We'll say it's the second spring.

Amanda> So the mums are the things that come in big pots and they just bloom all at once.

Carmen> Yes.

So they are going to be a very fun Chrysanthemum style.

A lot of people think of it as like grandma's Chrysanthemums, always coming up, many different colors.

But, a lot of people have trouble with them.

So what I, I went down to Forest Lake in Florence, Forest Lake Greenhouses, and they helped me pick out some stuff that's available in fall.

Amanda> Okay.

Carmen> That you can use differently in a porch.

In a container, as a standalone.

Oh, yes.

Okay.

So what is the... Terasa, you're going to have to help me.

What's our new name for this sedum?

Terasa> Hylotelephium Carmen> Here's our new Hylotelephium.

So one of the big, complaints about our mums is I always forget to water them.

They always, especially the container, you're popping a whole bunch of Chrysanthemums in there- Amanda> Because they have lots of different little tiny ones stuck in there to get that massive- Carmen> Yes, that beautiful mass and a lot of the times they're framed out, they have a little frame in them to keep them upright.

This is a wonderful one for those, the sedum is a wonderful one for those who, kind of forget to water during the fall.

Like you said, it's drought tolerant.

Amanda> Although, that pot very carefully reminds you, if you turn it around, it has a watering can on it.

Carmen> You definitely want to water it a little bit.

Yes.

This one isn't an Autumn Joy.

This is a Frosted Fire.

Terasa> A little bit of variegation on it?

Carmen> Yes.

It has some lovely colors, if you're going for the, the pale coloring.

And then, we've also got if you wanted to, some Crotons- Amanda> Aren't they just fabulous.

Carmen> Just fun.

And if you want, like a pop of color that can kind of like, be happy and stand alone.

Now, I did want to point out, I just...oh.

Hannah> Got it.

Carmen> Yes.

Lovely, lovely.

Here, we've got some, some heuchera or coral bells.

Now, these come in a ton of different colors.

Deep purples, bright lime greens.

And this is a real nice one.

If you got, like a shaded area.

Amanda> I was going to say, you need to keep it in the shade a little bit, don't you?

<Yes> Carmen> Exactly.

Deep in the porch.

And this one does well.

It kind of has that lovely trailing, technique to it.

So you can put it on the outside of a nice little container.

But for those who want to pop a flower, a beautiful flower pot.

You have to pop it right up.

Here we have our African daisies.

These are kind of funky.

It's kind of something new, if you were looking for something other than maybe a Rudbeckia.

But our African daisies have a lot of nice color, and they come in a really cool orange, which we love at Clemson, because pansies, things like that, they just can't, they don't, the orange ones that just don't do very well.

This one comes in a lovely orange that'll last you until frost.

What else do I have down here?

Hannah> I like this one.

<Oh> Like a lime green, isn't it?

Carmen> Yes.

Amanda> That's pretty.

Carmen> So, Beetlejuice is big right now, and so we love to get our lime greens and purples.

This one is, a funky little arborvitae, and they come in a cute little ball shape.

So it can kind of give the same shape as your mums.

And it's just got that bright green, and putting that with maybe a deep purple pepper.

Oh, no, not...marigolds are adorable.

Look at those.

Amanda> Well, I was in a place where I get vegetables and all.

They had a lot of... mums too, but they said that these if you pinch the- Carmen> -snap them off.

Amanda> Yeah.

That they would bloom so much longer than... and I think they're lovely and you could always have, a mass of them.

You know, if you wanted to get the same effect.

And, and then you just get that wonderful...

I think the fragrance when you crush the leaves is wonderful- Carmen> And that fragrance is fabulous for a fall garden- Amanda> Don't you think so?

Carmen> Let's put it right there.

Oh, yeah.

Look at that.

Dr. John> And they're easy to grow from seed.

Carmen> Yes.

And you can have them in ground in your fall vegetable garden too.

That's my favorite.

Amanda> And I think that generally they'll come back, if I'm not mistaken.

Carmen> Yes.

Amanda> Some of them do.

Carmen> Yes.

If you can have them reseed.

Yeah.

Just let them go to seed.

Amanda> Isn't that fun?

The fragrance is just wonderful.

Yeah, yeah.

Okay.

Well, lots of opportunities for fall.

And I'll be glad when fall finally comes.

Terasa> When you leave, feel free to come on by my house- Carmen> -just drop them off.

Terasa> Put some in planters, and we'll be done.

(laughing) Amanda> How's that Rhubarb?

Terasa> Oh, it is not looking good at all.

Amanda> Maybe we can start next year.

(laughing) Terasa> I appreciate that.

Amanda> Faith Isreal is a part of our Food Systems and Safety Team, and she's been kind enough to come over and give us some tips every now and then.

And lately she did it about canning.

I'm talking to Faith Isreal, who is a Clemson Extension Agent, but she's on the Food Systems and Safety Team, and we're so glad to have you here today.

Faith> Glad to be here.

Amanda> A lot of people have developed an interest in things that happened in the past.

And so I think y'all are here to make certain that, they can do that in a safe manner?

Faith> That's correct.

When it comes to preserving food, you want to follow a research based recipe.

And so we're here to teach just that.

Amanda> Okay.

Back in the day, my husband remembers when there were canneries in different counties and Clemson Extension agents were there to help people learn how to safely can food because it had been, people doing things at home 100 years ago, didn't necessarily know how to do it safely.

So here y'all are today, still doing that for us.

Faith> Right.

Still teaching the best way to preserve your food.

Amanda> Yeah.

Isn't that fun?

And it's all research based?

Faith> Correct.

Amanda> Yeah.

And so, if people want to take one of these workshops, what would they learn about?

Faith> Okay, we have workshops in different subject matters.

So jams, jellies, and soft spreads, pickling, pressure canning.

So those are some of the topics that we have where you can come in, with this workshop, one day workshop, come in you learn, and then also you get a hands on in the kitchen, so you can preserve your own product.

Amanda> Whoa.

Okay.

And so the two things you talk about are pressure canning and water bath?

Faith> That's pretty much it.

Yes.

Amanda> Okay.

I was, a lot of people are kind of nervous about pressure cookers, in general.

Do they have safety features on them now?

So they're not going to blow up on you?

Faith> Yes, yes.

So we, that class is the class that most people are really interested in because of the safety feature.

And so we practice and we teach so that you won't have your canner lid in your ceiling.

Of course not.

But yes, they do have safety features.

Amanda> And, you said that if you have a canner that your mama used or that you got a long time ago, or found it at a thrift store, are some of the older ones, still pretty good?

Faith> Some of the older ones are still pretty good.

Yes.

I had a gentleman bring in six canners that he thrifted, and we tested those for him, and five of them were still great to be used.

Amanda> Okay.

Faith> Then I had another lady who had a canner in her family for over 40 years.

So it's a great investment.

Amanda> One of the things I think they learn, is that how to test your canner, to be sure it is accurate?

Faith> So we do test your pressure at your dial, pressure dial canners, yes, to make sure that is accurate for you to pressure can.

Because we want to make sure the readings are correct.

Amanda> So if I didn't take your workshop but I had one and I had a question about it, is there a way I can get that done without taking the class?

Faith> Correct.

Yes.

You just call your local Extension office and make an appointment, so you can get your pressure canner tested.

Amanda> Okay.

But, let's talk about some of the things that they learn.

Water bath can be done with, which kinds of foods?

Faith> So your acidic foods, and so for water bathing you have two options for things.

You can do the traditional water bath canner, but if you're going to, process something under 45 minutes, you can use a steam canner.

>> That's an option.

Amanda> Whoa.

Gracious.

Goodness.

It used to be that everybody thought you could just water bath tomatoes, but I think there's you've got the new recipes, you add something to them, Faith> You add an acid to it, to acidify your tomatoes.

Amanda> Okay, okay.

Goodness gracious.

Now, how about pickles?

Faith> Pickles are best with your water bath canner.

Amanda> Okay.

Faith> You're adding that salt to help preserve it in the vinegar.

Yes.

Amanda> Oh, so the salt is the preservative?

And then sweet things?

Faith> Sweet, you have the sugar to help preserve it.

Amanda> Okay.

Faith> That's a water bath canner too.

Amanda>...then what are the some of the things that you'd have to pressure can?

Faith> So you will pressure can your combination foods like you're soups or your stews, and all your meats.

Amanda> Okay.

And I guess, like green beans.

Faith> Green beans will fall into that category.

>> Okay.

Faith> And your starchy foods like your carrots and potatoes will fall in that category, as well.

Amanda> Okay.

And so... these are often around the state.

Faith> Correct.

So, myself and my fellow teammates, we're housed in different counties.

Amanda> Yes.

Faith> We do have workshops throughout the year, just... with Carolina Canning.

So find one that works with your schedule.

And so some of my classes I do offer on Saturdays as an option for people, so they don't have to take leave, to come to a workshop and they just come in for one day.

You don't have to bring anything.

Just wear some closed-toed shoes and just and we'll have the fun.

Amanda> Okay.

If they want to find out about how to sign up for one, where's the best place to go?

Faith> You can search our website for Carolina Canning.

Amanda> All right.

Faith> We're also on Facebook for Carolina Canning, as well.

Amanda> I think this is wonderful.

Thank you so much.

Faith> Thank you for having me.

Amanda> Well thank you, Faith.

We hope we'll have many more visits with her.

Erline Wiles, who many of y'all remember, we did a wonderful segment with her, just one of the most remarkable gardeners in South Carolina, and extremely lady-like.

But, I don't see how she ever got her fingernails clean because she was in the garden from morning until night until, in her mid 90s.

Just a wonderful place.

And my friend, Ann Nolte who's usually my hat person, went out to visit, Erline's son and daughter-in-law.

Erline since has passed, and brought all these things home and I have no idea what they are.

So Dr. John gets to tell us what's in my hat.

Dr. John> Goodness, quiz time.

Amanda> You can put your fingers on it.

Dr. John> Okay.

(laughter) This one's easy.

That's called cockscomb.

And that's Celosia.

Amanda> Uh huh.

Dr. John> And this one, I think, is a tropical, let's see that's called the scientific, the genus name is Odontostemma.

And I think some people call it fire cracker something...fire.

Amanda> Iris stink is what somebody said.

Dr. John> The yellow one here, turn your head this way a little bit, is, that's a, that's in the Acanthus family.

Let's see That would be, Justicia.

Amanda> Gracious.

Dr. John> And then what else have you got?

Amanda> There's some little pink thing... Did we get that one already?

Dr. John> We've done that.

We done that.

We done did that.

Well, this is, the blue one is Plumbago, and I think that's called, Amanda> Plumbago.

Dr. John> Plumbago.

Sounds like a disease.

Amanda> Anyway.

Well, I was going to tell y'all that this Celosia, in Lake Lure, they have an old bridge that was decommissioned, and they have made it into the most beautiful walking garden you've ever seen in your life.

It's exquisite and they've got an area where they do trimmings and things and fittings, and they say, go over there and get anything you want.

Well, I was up there with, wonderful Ann Nolte, and she got a little bit of this and she has it all over her yard now, and I think it's the prettiest color in the world.

Terasa> We mentioned about the marigolds coming back from seed.

So Celosia is one that you do want to be careful, because it's a pretty prolific seeder.

Amanda> Well, she's got about 100 acres so I guess...

Isn't that fun?

And John, thank you so much for, Dr. John> You're very welcome.

Amanda> -what the things were Dr. John> I hope I got them right.

Amanda> Yeah, and to Erline's daughter-in-law Jenny, who sent them to me.

I thought that was mighty sweet of her.

Okay, well, where are we now?

Terasa> I bet Dr. John has a show and tell for us.

Dr. John> Mmm... Well, let's see what Dr. John has brought for our viewing consumption.

And there might be something down here that is...it looks like it's... Terasa> Does that mean it's edible?

<Ohhhh> Dr. John> I'm being covered up by this thing.

Hannah> What in the world.

Dr. John>...so we can maybe... Amanda> It's vigorous, a vigorous grower.

I guess we can agree on that.

Dr. John>...vigorous grower, that's for sure.

And you know we've been talking about the bean family, the soy, soybean has been a popular topic today.

Let's see if we can... Terasa> Goodness.

Dr. John> some of this around... Now this isn't part of it.

Amanda> I know that's not part of it.

Dr. John> It is a vine.

And look at this and it's got- Amanda> "Vine-a-arama" Dr. John> "Vine-a-arama" And it's got, flowers on it.

Who can...?

Oh, here we go.

You can see a flower.

Well, before we start talking about flowers, you got to talk about the stem.

And you'd say that- Amanda> Here's a flower.

Dr. John> -a twining, vine which grows along the ground, but it can also climb up things and you see- Amanda> So it can trail along the ground?

Dr. John> Oh, yeah.

Make a mound of "vine-ry", or climb up stuff like this dog fennel.

Hannah> Oh, it looks like a peanut flower.

Dr. John> It does.

In fact, it's, you know, much of what you see in the, this subfamily of the, of the bean family is what we call a Papilionaceous flower, sort of butterfly shaped, if you use your imagination.

The thing about this particular plant and its relatives is that the keel is that... curvy thing in the middle.

It's curved.

And most of the things in the bean family don't have a curved keel, but this one is really curved and it almost goes backwards.

And that's characteristic of some of the members of the bean family, not all, and not soybean, as it turns out.

But you'll see that the flowers are on a stalk that's elevated above the, the rest of the vine.

And that's kind of cool that when you have a big mass of this vine, the flowers will be sticking out.

And these little peduncles- Amanda> Do they need a pollinator, too?

Dr. John> Oh, yeah.

Sure.

Amanda> Okay.

Dr. John> Yeah.

I'm not too much into the pollination biology of this plant.

But you can see this flower has already given us a young pod.

Amanda> Whoa!

Dr. John> So, that's the ovary of a flower that used to be here.

Amanda> I've got some too.

Dr. John> Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

Then as you, as you look around, you see that they mature and they look like soybeans, except they're longer.

and they don't have all that hair all over them.

So these are perfectly good...legumes.

And I wonder if you all can find one, maybe even one that's dark.

Look at that one.

Hannah> Oh, I put one here.

Well, I opened up a green one, but you can see the seeds in there, they're kind of hard.

Dr. John> Carmen, break that one open and see what happens.

Hannah> You want a pocket knife.

Dr. John> I haven't done it yet- Carmen> I think I remember.

Amanda> Y'all are just dying to use those pocket knifes.

Dr. John> I don't know if these things are edible or not.

Amanda> So we're not going to find out right now.

Dr. John> Here's a ripe one.

Hannah> Terasa's got it down there too.

Dr. John> That's a ripe one.

Amanda> It's got some nice looking beans... Carmen> They look fuzzy.

Dr. John> The seeds are fuzzy.

Amanda> Fuzzy seeds!

Dr. John> which is kind of... Amanda> That's kind of cool.

Hannah> So, you know Dr. John, they, soybeans, when the pod, when the hull, dries out, so it'll kind of wrinkle back or pop open and the seeds disperse, so we call it shattering.

Dr. John> Right.

Hannah> So we don't want to wait too long on harvest, but if... obviously we're not harvesting these with a combine or anything, but will those shatter, and that's how they disperse their seeds?

Dr. John> They will eventually break open.

I mean, they are here dehiscent.

I'm not sure that they really explosively shatter or anything like that.

But yeah, it is pretty cool that they are fuzzy seeds.

And now the fruit is not fuzzy.

And then we didn't talk about the leaves.

We got to talk about the leaves a little bit.

So the leaves of course, remind you a little bit of poison ivy because- Carmen>-leaves of three Dr. John> leaflets of three.

So, we say that this entire leaf right here, if you pull it off, that's one leaf.

And then these three things are leaflets.

So don't call these three things leaves because they're not.

<alright> This whole thing is a leaf.

So that's the deal.

Hannah> We call them trifoliolates.

Tri- meaning three.

Dr. John> Right.

The problem with that term.

<uh oh> (laughter) Terasa> That would mean three leaves.

Hannah> Taking us to school today, I'm so excited.

(laughing) Dr. John> Close enough... but trifoliolate strictly means three leaves.

Trifoliate means three leaflets.

But if you say trifoliolate, everybody is going to know what you're talking about.

I didn't tell you what this thing is, did I?

Hannah> Oh, yeah.

Dr. John> Well, they call it sand bean.

Amanda> Sand bean?

Dr. John> Yeah.

Amanda> Does it grow in kind of sandy soils?

Dr. John> It grows in vacant lots and the edge of woods and stuff.

And it's, it's pretty common.

It's a native species.

A lot of people don't ever see it because it's- Amanda> We'll have to look it up and see if you can eat it.

Dr. John> it's very...

I think it's kind of pretty.

Amanda> Hannah, you said something about soybeans shattering.

Hannah> They, so when that that hull dries out, it kind of will curl back.

And when it's dry, like in the fall and it will lose a lot of our humidity, it will just shatter and the beans will pop out and land on the ground so we can't harvest it.

Amanda> You know, the first non-shattering soybean was developed in Calhoun County at Aeolian Hill, by a Wannamaker.

Hannah> Look at there.

There's a couple different varieties.

There's like a tawny and a brown.

Amanda> I mean, this is I just think it's fascinating.

So he had his family, lived in this beautiful house on the top of the hill, and he would go out and just select ones.

And I mean, so his whole front porch, which I'm sure drove his grandmama crazy, his mama crazy because it was a beautiful house.

And he would, you know, just making hand selections and, I can't remember his complete name.

It was a Wannamaker, though, and, because back then, from what I've heard, they would just, they would grow soybeans in areas and then they would just run the animals through...to eat them because they fell on the ground.

And it...and Coker patented it, you know, planted it.

Hannah> Yeah.

Amanda> It was the first non- as I've been told the first non-shattering soybean Hannah> That makes sense.

Amanda> Coker...promoted and made available in the South.

All developed right there from one person just doing that in his front yard, a very brilliant gentleman.

And I think there's a building at Duke named after him.

Hannah> Oh look at there.

Amanda> I mean, it was a pretty big deal to come up with a non-shattering soybean.

Hannah> Hey, I'm going to tell you when it's a top commodity in our state, we devote a lot of money towards it, finding out how to grow it better and what genetics work best.

We did have a soybean breeder at Pee Dee REC, that actually selected traits and would make our own soybean seeds, our own soybean plants... to market later in the growing season.

Amanda> Yeah.

Isn't that amazing.

Little old South Carolina.

Hannah> I know.

Amanda> Luther Banks Wannamaker, and then this gentleman who was, a somewhat distant relative.

Hannah> Yeah.

Amanda> All involved in seeds.

Pretty big deal.

Hannah> It's important.

Amanda> Well, John, that was great fun.

And we're going to look it up and see if we can eat it before we try it.

Dr. John> Okay.

You can try it once.

Carmen> Always once.

Terasa> Anything is edible once.

Amanda> I'm looking it up.

Okay.

Well great, great, great fun.

Dr. John> Sand bean.

Amanda> Well, Terasa?

I hope we have something that can fit its way into this twining vining... plant.

Terasa> We have a question from Lacey in New Zion, who said "if I wanted to time my engagement pictures "just right, how could I make sure "to take pictures in a white cotton field, "not one full of green leaves?"

And you do see people who... cotton fields and sunflower fields.

Amanda> Yeah.

Love to go out and get their pictures taken.

Hannah> Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah.

That's the very, very important.

It's, is they're all down to a timing issue, I think.

So whenever our cotton...

So we talked earlier about maturity dates.

It's...the same with not so much corn as much as it is cotton and soybeans.

Peanuts even sometimes, but our cotton starts to crack at the bottom Amanda> What do you mean crack?

Hannah> cracks open.

So it looks these are some, some drought stricken cotton plants.

This could be a little bouquet for Lacey with her engagement photos.

You'd have to be, quite short to take pictures in these.

I did not cut the top out of the plant.

This was actually drought stressed cotton that did not grow.

Amanda> Oh, bless its heart.

Hannah> Yeah, we were talking kind of behind the scenes earlier about these internodes and how short they are.

So obviously you can see these internodes where the branches come out are stacked so closely together.

So, I say all that to say, whenever it cracks open, it is about to, to bloom.

And that, that cotton is starting...to expand and open up these the hull or the, the boll on the outside, the green part.

I can take it off and show you actually.

It will start to dry.

And as it starts to dry, much like that soybean, it'll pop open.

Amanda> Yes.

Hannah> And when it pops open, our cotton then is exposed and can start to expand and and open up.

If you'd like to take it, you can actually pull out some of the seeds and you can see them in there a little bit.

Amanda> And see why it was such a big deal to have to- Hannah> Oh yeah.

Amanda>when they got to country.

Hannah> Yes.

Yeah.

I talked to a lady.

I was doing a pesticide training a couple of weeks ago in Kingstree.

She says she absolutely loved picking cotton back in the day.

And I was like, "didn't it hurt your hands?"

Because, don't when you pull it out, your fingers that... ...that can get in there underneath your fingernail, in your cuticle and hurt?

She said, she loved it.

It was so rewarding to be able to do it.

And I think it's just interesting to say that, you know, she had that skill and that knowledge back in the day.

Amanda> Yeah, and remember that with happiness.

Hannah> With fondness.

Yes.

Yeah.

She, she was really very proud of herself.

And I was like, "that is so cool."

And it was a couple older people that I was talking to, and just being able to talk about like cropping tobacco back in the day and how they did things in agriculture back then is so interesting, I think.

Amanda> And why people had such big families.

Hannah> Oh, yes.

Very, very true.

Yes.

But, so whenever Lacey is thinking about going out and taking pictures, when the cotton plant starts to crack towards the bottom, the more mature bolls are going to open up first.

And so when the farmer sees that we have about three fourths of the plant that started to crack open, so they're starting to show some white in the bottom, they will spray a prep on it, which will in turn make the plants dry down.

It'll start dropping leaves, and then when it does that, a prep and a defoliant, it is able to within- Amanda>-does it speed up that process?

Hannah> Yeah.

It's hard to put a date on it because they say it's kind of a science or an art.

Like the cotton farmers who have been growing cotton for a very long time can tell you it's, it's a real finicky crop at times.

But whenever it does start to pop open, you have about, I don't know, a week to two weeks before they come along and need to harvest it.

Amanda> Oh!

Hannah> Think about it, if we get a tropical storm this time of year, what happens when this stuff gets wet and windblown?

It's going to start sagging and looking pretty pitiful, right?

So when that happens, it deteriorates the cotton, the lint, Amanda> The quality, Hannah> Yes.

We don't want that to happen.

You can actually have a prolonged period of time if we get a lot of rain where the ground's too wet to run the combine and if, or the picker.

So when that happens, we could end up with a regrowth of the green leaf tissue.

So, we'll end up with stained cotton, which, isn't that weird?

But, but that is something that would, you'll see all these little green leaves that come back out.

I brought one, so these were planted about this far apart.

They were in a very drought stressed area, obviously, but I brought, a stunner of a plant.

It's a little tall, and the internode lengths are quite long, much longer.

Amanda> So that one had plenty of water?

Hannah> Yes, it had plenty of water.

It was around a portion of the field that had been, run over by the, by the sprayer, by the tractor, or the planter.

So it didn't have a lot of competition at all.

So it was able to really branch out.

You can see the fruiting branches, the vegetative branches and all of those green things on there, all bolls that will start to crack up.

Amanda> So when should she... she needs to talk to somebody and find out if they'll allow her to come and do it.

Hannah> Yeah, of course, yes.

But whenever you start to see it green and, or the leaves start to drop, whenever the plant is about three fourths of the way white, go and try to find a landowner nearby, and usually they would have rented their land to the grower and she can reach out to them.

Amanda> Okay, okay.

Hannah> Or call the Extension office, we'll be glad to help.

Amanda> Standing in a cotton field.

Hannah> That's right.

Yeah.

Amanda> That's fun.

Okay.

Terasa> It's so soft.

Hannah> I know, I like it, yeah.

Amanda> We, all love music, and, people have loved music in all cultures all around the world.

And we went to visit a man who makes, flutes.

According to the Native American tradition.

♪ Native American flute plays ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ Amanda> I'm visiting with Rand Rowe, and Rand, you make flutes in the traditional Native American way.

Rand> I try my best.

Amanda> And what do you call your enterprise?

>> I call it Catahoula Flutes.

>> And there's a funny reason for that.

Rand> We had a dog that was a Catahoula, and she was... she was a mess.

And you never knew what she was going to do.

So basically, I love to make branch flutes.

That's one type of flute, and they're kind of that way, too.

You don't know how they're going to turn out until you got them done.

Amanda> Well, let's talk about the first flutes that Native American people made and what was the purpose for them?

Rand> Well, you traditionally it was, I think, everybody in all of mankind loves music.

And so just that.

But then I'm sure that it was also based on ceremony.

I know that in the Lakotas, they use them as courting flutes.

So a young man, if he wanted to find a girlfriend and he finds his girlfriend, he's got to make a flute.

And it's got to sound good to that young lady and if it doesn't, then he's... (laughs) he's out of luck.

Amanda> Well... since he knew that there had been relationships because he's a grandson, he would, they were call it grandfather tuning or something quite fascinating.

Rand> Exactly right.

So when he would make his flute, he would go out into the woods and take his grandfather's flute with him and look for branches or if he was doing a branch flute, there were basically two kinds with the Native Americans, and that was the river cane flutes, Amanda> Yes.

Rand> Or the branch flutes.

And so up there in the Lakotas, it would most likely be a branch flute.

And so he would go out and try to find a flute that matched his grandfather's, and then he'd bring it home and he'd start making sure it was the same length as his grandfather's.

And then he would either bore it out, use burning tools to burn it out, or he would have to break it in half with a stone knife unless he had a steel knife.

So he would take a knife that had been knapped, break that flute in half, then carve out the insides with tools like that.

Or burn it out.

Amanda> Yes.

Rand> So you'd have the bore on the inside, just like his grandfather's as best he could.

And then he would start tuning that flute and try to get it so that it sounded the same without any holes.

And then he would tune this bottom hole and the next hole and the next hole and the next hole until they had it sounding the same way.

And the way he knew how to lay out the holes was he would put his hand here.

And that's where the first hole goes.

And he would put his hand here.

And sure enough, that's where the first hole goes and he used his thumb in between.

Now, this flute I did, I did mathematically, but if you notice - Amanda>-It still fits that traditional way.

Rand> It's almost exactly the traditional way.

Amanda> Yes.

Isn't that something?

Rand> It's fascinating to me.

Amanda> It is just remarkable.

You have an example of how the earliest flutes would have been made, I think, where you just blew into the end.

>> Right.

Amanda> And that's hard to get the sound of.

I mean, it would take, you said it even takes you half an hour to figure out.

Rand> Right.

It takes me a while to get back into it because I don't play that flute very often.

Amanda> But because of I believe you said when the French came in and they had European flutes, which you do like this.

Rand> Right.

And there was another style.

And I think it had something to do with a fipple, I'm not sure, but somewhere along that same time in the 1700s, they started making flutes.

They're 1700 or 1600s, right around there.

They started making flutes with a little block on it.

So that when you blow in the end of the flute, that block is forcing that air to hit a sound edge.

That sound edge and you got sound.

Amanda> So they adapted some of the European flute methods, but they did not adapt playing it this way.

They continued to play it this way- <Rand> Exactly.

Amanda> And that's why your flutes have these really funky things that cover those dramatically kind of... Rand> Yeah, they call them the block, the bird or the fetish.

Amanda> Yes.

Rand> Sometimes I use stones.

I like to... You know, ladies like rose quartz.

So I put the quartz on there.

And I love bears.

If you look at this little guy, he's a bear.

And so you're blowing in the end.

The air, this is a big hollow area back here, just like the front of this flute is.

And this, the air comes across this edge and there's a little flat area right here.

And it hits the sounding edge right there.

Amanda> And I can see that there's a little chiseled spot right there, and that redirects the air down.

Rand> Exactly.

It's almost shaped like a little triangle And it just shoots that air down there.

And that's how you get your sound.

But if you just blew on it, all that air would just go right around it.

Amanda> Yeah Rand> Once I put the block on, and now we'll have (flute plays) Amanda> Goodness gracious!

>> So then all of a sudden you've got a sound.

Amanda> Yes.

(flute plays) >> So, it plays.

Amanda> But they were grandfather tuned.

So even though they were used ceremonially, there wouldn't be five people playing the flute because they wouldn't have lined up and sounded right.

They were all- Rand> Exactly right, in about 19 Amanda>- in different keys.

Rand> Exactly.

In about 1950, everybody decided, you know, it'd be kind of nice if we could play together.

And so they all came up with a tuning system and they started using mechanical tuners.

And so now it's, it's a little easier to do it than the mechanical tuning.

But there's a chart, and if you tune your flutes, you, you can pretty well play with other people.

Amanda> There are lots of materials and parts of the tree that you could use for your flutes, but you're drawn to one in particular.

Rand> Right.

I like the branch flutes and I think it comes down to the challenge.

I could make these routed flutes all day long.

They're simple for me to make.

Amanda> And you get to use machinery to do it.

Rand> Yeah, I can just knock them out and the bore length is the same one and same length and the holes can be all laid out the same.

I can just take 50 of them and line them up and knock them out, whereas a branch flute, nah, every one of them requires agony and torture.

(Amanda laughs) And it's just you have to first of all, you got to get the flute cut in half.

And so I use a band saw.

Amanda> A piece of wood.

The branch cut in half.

Rand> Yeah, right.

Traditionally, they used other, you know, stone tools or steel knives to split them, and then later on- Amanda> Because you can't run them.

you can't do this on a router.

Rand> Exactly, because if you notice, this is a wiggly flute.

Amanda> (laughing) It's just as crooked as it can be.

Rand> Exactly.

And so I just love the challenge.

And every one of them is its own unique flute.

There's not another one like this.

I can have another one that is in the same key, but there will never be another one just like this flute.

Amanda> Y'all have about 16 acres here near Lugoff and you are fortunate.

You can wander around and let the different trees or branches speak to you, I believe.

Rand> Exactly.

So we've got the hollies and the sand myrtles and the sparkleberries and the pine, of course, and oak and hickory, and you name it.

I mean, just amazing amount of wood.

They even have a couple of beech trees.

So it's fun to be able to walk out.

And quite frankly, every year in February, I do go out and collect the wood for a year or two, to two years down the road.

Amanda> While the trees are deciduous.

Rand> Exactly.

So I will harvest the branches that I want and bring them back and seal the ends with glue and then let them sit in a bucket in the, in climate controlled area for a year or two, at least.

At least a year.

Amanda> And who's on the top of that one?

Rand> That's a, I went and looked at Smithsonian.

I looked at the flutes and Native Americans in the Smithsonian and this was a woodpecker, that a style of a woodpecker, that was done by Native Americans back in the day.

It doesn't look that beautiful, but it's what the style was back in the 1800s.

Amanda> Yeah.

Yeah.

Rand> And so, I just copied that little strange looking woodpecker and put him on there.

Amanda> And then other things that you have on them for decorative reasons.

Rand> Right.

Amanda> Let's talk about some of those as well.

Rand> Normally, there's a mark of some sort that a Native American would do on a flute, but sometimes you'll find nothing at all.

But you can look at certain flutes being made by certain people and you can see, oh, there's a pattern here.

Amanda> I see.

Yeah.

Rand> With all of my flutes, though, every one of them is going to have a feather here.

And you see the little dots.

So this is the spirit feather.

And the reason why I do the spirit feather is because it represents when a person, the flute maker, makes the flute, he actually has to take the heartwood out of the flute.

He's got to put his heart into the flute and put the heart back in the flute.

Amanda> Replace it.

How lovely!

Rand> So that's the reason why I put the feather on all of mine.

And the little dots represent the flute journey.

And then down here I have the, that's New Mexico's Sun Symbol, which is really my thing for the four directions because of the Native Americans' belief system around the four directions.

On the backside I carve out a little guy and that's representing me... with my little beard.

I used to have a longer beard and I always put the key of the flute.

So this is a 'G'.

Amanda>Oh, ok!

Rand> What year I made it, and then I write on it, "Made by Catahoula Flutes."

And so all of my flutes are set up the same way.

Amanda> Do you ever play with other people?

Rand> Yes, I do.

I play with my wife sometimes.

And then just if we go to flute circles, that's an interesting thing.

I'm glad you said that.

There are flute circles all over the United States.

There's a Georgia flute circle up in the Atlanta area, and people from all over Georgia will come together to play their flutes.

Amanda> So I could find a place to go and hear how something that started thousands of years ago in one particular way and for one particular purpose has now, as we would expect, become something that changes with the times.

Rand> Exactly.

And not only that, there are also flute festivals where people go, you know, several thousand people will go and listen to well-known players, play their flutes.

Amanda> Okay.

I want to thank you for letting me come and learn that on your little 16 acres in Lugoff, just like the Native Americans who once lived here, you are harvesting from your land and finding ways to bring joy and happiness and tradition to your life.

Rand> Well, thank you very much.

And thank you for visiting.

(flute plays) ♪ ♪ Amanda> Rand Rowe and his wife were delightful to visit.

and she, herself is an artist.

We had a great time looking at their property.

It was truly fun to hear the music as well.

And I want to tell y'all how much I enjoyed having y'all come up.

Gosh, this has just been fascinating.

What a great, great, great time to learn about things.

Thank you all so very much.

I hope you all enjoyed being with us, and we hope you'll come back and visit us next week.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ Narrator> Making It Grow is brought to you in part by Certified South Carolina.

This cooperative effort among farmers, retailers and the South Carolina Department of Agriculture helps consumers identify foods and agricultural products that are grown, harvested or raised right here in the Palmetto State.

Mcleod Farms in McBee, South Carolina, family owned and operated since 1916.

This family farm offers seasonal produce, including over 40 varieties of peaches.

Wesley Commons, a full service continuing care retirement community located on more than 150 wooded acres in Greenwood, South Carolina.

Additional funding provided by the South Carolina Farm Bureau Federation and Farm Bureau Insurance.

And Boone Hall Farms.