[music]>>Kate Pleasant: Coming up on this episode of the Paw Report, we're talking to Dr. Marci Kirk from Albin Animal Hospitals in Mattoon and Charleston all about what it takes to become a veterinarian.So, if you ever thought about it, stick around.We'll tell you all about it, coming up next on the Paw Report.

[music] Production for the Paw Report is made possible by:Inyart Tire and Auto Centerin Charleston and Mattoon.Inyart offers complete auto repair.Inyart Tire and Auto Center cares about our community and thanks you for being a responsible pet owner.More information at Inyart.com.>>Kate: Hello, and welcome to the Paw Report.

I'm your host Kate Pleasant, and I'm joined today by Dr. Marci Kirk from Albin Animal Hospitals in Mattoon and Charleston.

Thanks for coming in today.>>Dr.

Kirk: Thanks for having me.>>Kate Pleasant: And today, we're talking about, since you're a frequent guest, this time we're going to talk about what it takes to be a veterinarian.

And that's kind of a broad question, so we'll start to whittle it down.

But first, can you tell us how you got into veterinary medicine?

Tell us a little bit about your story.>>Dr.

Kirk: Well, it's pretty typical.

I think what most people would say, I wanted to be a vet, you know, as long as I can remember.

I remember in kindergarten, if you go back through all the papers I had, I did write 'banker' because I didn't know how to spell veterinarian, but I did, you know, my, because then I thought vet was a veteran.

So, I was very confused when I was younger, but if you ask my family, it was since the time I was talking, I always wanted animals, always wanted pets, always had something that I was doing.

And so, you know, I got very interested in that, and obviously, you know, interested in sciences, and was very fortunate to start working for a veterinarian when I was younger.

And that really got me interested and, you know, from there, just followed the education for it.

So, but I would say most people, you know, they start young, and they want to be young.>>Kate Pleasant: Well, most people, you know, I think I was even one of them for a certain period of time.

Oh, I want to play with puppies and kitties all day, but that's not exactly what it is, right?>>Dr.

Kirk: Right, right.

And that's something that if you're thinking, no matter what age you are, there was, when I was in vet school, there were a lot of second career people that they had had completely different, we had an accountant who was going back to school to become a veterinarian, you know, other number, you know, people.

But there's so much more than puppies and kittens.

So, if you are very interested, whether you are 12, 24, you know, 42, anything, you need to get into a clinic.

And even if you're just volunteering, you need to see what it's about and make sure it's something that you're interested in, because there's a lot more to it.

I mean, I love playing with puppies and kittens, but that's really only a small fraction of what you're doing.

You're dealing with a lot of emotional situations, a lot of high stress situations, and you need to make sure that's something that you're willing to commit to.>>Kate Pleasant: Mmhmm.

And you're dealing with animals that are in pain, you know, and I assume that this isn't all just the happy stuff.

You don't pet puppies and kittens all day.>>Dr.

Kirk: Right.

I think that's one of the best things that worked out for me.

My first position that I held, I was basically kennel staff.

And you learn a lot about reading their behaviors and how to interact with them in a stressful environment, which really helps you down the line.

I really, I started when I was 15, and you know, worked until I became a vet, basically.

And I picked up a lot; I learned a lot by doing kennels.

It's not the most glamorous job; you know, you're dealing with kind of the other end of things, but it's very important you, like I said, you learn their behaviors, you can learn kind of how to pick up maybe the first signs that something might be going wrong while they're at the clinic.

So, it was, I learned a lot being in that situation.>>Kate Pleasant: Okay, so starting, you know, in that capacity might be a good route to go if you think you're interested.

I assume, too, that you would find out right away if you liked that environment.>>Dr.

Kirk: Right, yep.

You see how fast paced it is.

You know, and there are slow days, just like any job, but you know, you need to be able to think on your feet.

And something that maybe it doesn't prepare you for whenever you are the vet, decisions are ultimately yours.

You know, so you have to kind of be able to stand by your decisions and, you know, support them with everything that you've learned.

So, it's a stressful environment, but if you can get past that, it's a very rewarding environment, too.

So, I think getting as much exposure; they want to see that you know what you're getting into.

And that goes for the puppies and kittens, as well as the other end, you know, as they get older and you have to make difficult decisions with owners.

You need to be able to handle that, as well.>>Kate Pleasant: Okay.

So, can you tell us kind of what the track to veterinary school looks like?

How do you get there, what does it take; that kind of thing.>>Dr.

Kirk: It's a little, I mean, there are a lot of different routes you can go.

But typically, you know, when you're in high school, you want to try and volunteer and get, and one of the best pieces of advice I got was to keep a journal of everything that you're doing, because when it comes time, you know, six years down the line, and you have to apply and come up with all these examples, it'll be really nice to have that to look at.

But you know, you're going to go through high school, and then you're going to go to college.

And you can go to a community college, you can go anywhere, but you're going to have to focus on the sciences.

You can have other majors, but you have to have all the requirements for the vet school.

So, several chemistry classes, physics classes, a lot of times biology; it just kind of depends.

I mean, there were plenty of people that were not biology majors, but they had to meet all those requirements to even apply.

And then, there's a test to apply, it's called the GRE, which is a graduate test to get in, and then there are certain levels.

So, there's kind of a process.

As long as your grades are at a certain level, and your GRE score's a certain level, you get to the next set, which is letters of recommendation and things like that.

And then, it's the interview.

You want to make sure you can interact with people, because you can get some really intelligent people, but what a lot of people don't remember is yes, you'll be working with animals, but there's always an owner on the other end of that animal.>>Kate Pleasant: You have to talk to the people, too.>>Dr.

Kirk: Right.

So, you've got to be able to interact with them on a level that they can understand.

And if that's not something you're interested in, you know, any job that you find in the veterinary field, your'e still going to have to interact with people, even if it's research.

You're going to have to delegate, because most people think of veterinarians as general practitioners.

You know, you go see your vet, you get vaccines, or if you're dog's sick.

But there's a whole host of other things that you can do.

You know, you can specialize and become a Board certified dermatologist or oncologist.

I mean, any of that.

You can also go into research or take care of lab animals, you know, that people maybe are doing studies on to help other animals down the line.

So, there's a whole host of options that you can have, and you can find the right one, but you've got to get in first before you can discover any of that.

So.>>Kate Pleasant: Okay.

And then, I assume that it's kind of like being a doctor, right?

I mean, it's not four years of college, and then your'e done, you've been through the vet program.

It's, there's an extensive education beyond that.>>Dr.

Kirk: Right.

So, you go to undergrad, it's four years most of the time.

I think they're kind of backing off this, but some people can get in a year early.

So, you go for four years, and then you go four years of vet school.

And typically, they're making some changes to a lot of the programs, but typically it's four years, and your last year is spent in clinics, where you're actually working with clinicians, and you're learning kind of what you're going to do and putting all the stuff you learned in books, you know, to the test.

And then, if you just, you take a set of Boards, which is very scary and very intimidating.

And if you pass that, then you become a licensed veterinarian.

But if you want to go on and do some of the specialties, there's even more school, another four years basically for that.

But then, once you get out of school, because the profession is constantly changing, you have a lot of continuing education things you have to do.

Every two years, you have to get at least 40 hours, so they make sure you're staying up on all the latest information and treating appropriately.>>Kate Pleasant: Okay, and what is the business side of being a veterinarian, because, you know, there's an animal side, but there's a business side, too.

I assume, you know, small businesses, large businesses, whatever it is, it's more than just being a veterinarian.>>Dr.

Kirk: Sure, yeah.

And it's a lot to take on, too.

You know, something that we didn't touch on is it takes a lot of time to become a veterinarian, but it's also quite expensive.

Most people will come out with like six year s worth of debt.

And you know, a lot of times, you know, right out of school you're just learning still, your salary's not really going to match that.

So, you have to be kind of conscious of where you are going to practice and what your, you know, lifestyle is going to be like.

And they have programs to help with that.

So, a lot of people want to own a business, that you can make your own decisions and things like that, but a lot of times, right out of school, that's not going to be very realistic, just because it is...

So, if you're interested, it's going to be a time and a financial commitment for everyone in your life.

So, it's a lot to take on.

That's why they want to make sure you know that that's what you want to do.>>Kate Pleasant: Mmkay.

And so, you know, outside of your daily animal interactions and diagnosis, and things like that, is there certain kinds of paperwork, and things like that, that your'e having to go through that's outside of the animal part?>>Dr.

Kirk: Well, sure.

Every patient that comes in, you know, they have a medical record, just like doctors have for us.

And that's a legal document, so you have to keep that updated.

If you don't write it up, you know, and something were to happen, you need to have that record so you can go back and say, okay, this is what we did the last time; we need to either try something different or, you know, do that.

So, you know, all that paperwork has to be done.

And then, you know, there's all kinds of certificates if they're traveling outside of the States, or you know, you know, I guess rabies certificates and things like that.

You know, you have to fill out all that paperwork.

Plus, you know, a lot of times, we don't stop when we go home.

Not that we take the animals home with us, you know, the cases stay with you.

And you know, your'e thinking about them or you're doing research, you know, if you've got a tricky case that you can't figure out, you're doing research on other options that you could have.

And they always said in school, you know, none of them read the text books.

So, in school, they're going to teach you, okay, this is what this condition looks like, this is what you're looking for, but they're not all going to look like that.

So, your education doesn't stop when you graduate.

It's constant.>>Kate Pleasant: And I assume that there's, like, on-call days, because, you know, we have to be able to call a veterinarian in an emergency.

So, it doesn't stop in that respect, as well.>>Dr.

Kirk: Right.

And that is another thing that it kind of depends on location, where when you're looking for your jobs, you might, you know, pick a different location.

Like down here, the closest emergency facility is up in Champaign, and there's the U of I, or there's, you know, a private one.

And so, that's, you know, an hour away.

And if it's a true emergency, maybe that's not even really feasible for the animal to get up there.

So, we do, you know, a lot of people in the area have on-call shifts that, you know, during night, you know, you might get called in the middle of the night.

And just a couple weeks ago, I mean, I had three in a row where I was up in the clinic in the middle of the night every night.

So, it's definitely a different lifestyle.>>Kate Pleasant: Mmhmm.

It's very much like a human doctor.

You kwon, you assume that they're on-call, as well to be ready in time.

So.>>Dr.

Kirk: Sure, yeah.>>Kate Pleasant: Is this a competitive field?

You know, are there lots of you?

Is it hard to get into?>>Dr.

Kirk: So, I think everyone always says it's harder to become a vet than a doctor, which, I think that, it is in a sense true, but I think doctors work very hard, medical doctors.

But why it's so competitive is there are only 29 veterinary schools in the United States, and each one has a class of maybe 120 at most.

So, if you think of how many people say they want to be veterinarians, it becomes pretty competitive in that sense.

Now, there are other options.

You can go overseas to school, and usually those are like three year programs, and then you come and do your last year of clinicals in the States.

And you still have to pass the same set of Boards, and take that, so they're just as qualified as anybody else, and they actually have probably paid more for their education.

So, there are lots of options, but it's kind of hard to find a vet school.

I mean, Illinois only has one.

Most states, if they have one, will only have one, because they have to have a teaching hospital associated with them, which is very costly.>>Kate Pleasant: Right.

I assume that would be the case, but I assume that that's a must.

I mean, you need to learn on the physical animal while you're...>>Dr.

Kirk: Right.

You've got to see it.>>Kate Pleasant: Mmhmm.

And so, I assume when you go to vet school, even if you said you want to deal with just small animals or something like that, you don't just learn about small animals.>>Dr.

Kirk: You learn about everything, and I was one of those people, I always knew, you know, horses and cows were just not for me.

I mean, I love to look at them, but I just didn't want to work with them.

I'm not very strong.

I know it may look like it...>>Kate Pleasant: Yes, you look pretty big and beefy.>>Dr.

Kirk: Yeah, so I just knew that that wasn't really going to be an option for me.

And so, but you still have to learn it, because whenever you take those Boards,it's everything.

So, you have to know how to treat them and everything, and then once you get out, you can make decisions about what you want to do.

But I had to spend six weeks on clinics, you know, with horses and cows, and everything.

It really opened my eyes to a lot of things, but it kind of solidified, for me at least, that that's not really what I wanted to do, which is what I like about it, though, because I had to do it, I had to experience it to know for sure.

And sometimes, one of my best friends in vet school, she went in trying, she was going to be a horse vet, and then second year, she's like nope, I'm going to work on cats.

That's all I want to work on is just cats.

So, she went to a feline only practice.

So, you can really change your mind after you kind of get experiences in there.

And she had worked in clinics, and kind of knew, but once you start learning things, something can really get your attention and get your interest.>>Kate Pleasant: I guess that would be like a lot of careers.

You know, you start into it and discover I'm really good at this part, or I really like this part better.

So, it's...>>Dr.

Kirk: Right.

And that's what's amazing about this career, is that there are so many options, you know.

If you are just tired of, you know, standing on your feet all day, there's all kinds of research options.

Or, you know, there's the Poison Control Center at, you know, they employ veterinarians to help animals that have possibly, you know, had toxin exposures.

A lot of the drug companies need veterinarians to help run trials or, you know, answer questions about the drugs.

I mean, there's just a lot of options.

It's not just a little, tiny pigeonhole of just general practice.>>Kate Pleasant: Not necessarily just what we see, too, I guess, because, you know, if you have a pet and your own personal experience is just with your veterinarian, that's just what all veterinarians do.

They all this practice, and they're just in little towns and cities here and there, and that's not it.

So.>>Dr.

Kirk: And there's a big push right now, at least when I was in school, about public health, because quite honestly, there's a lot of diseases that maybe we're a lot more familiar with that possibly a medical, or a human doctor may not be as familiar with, because we see it and we get exposed to it a little bit more.

So, that might allow us to kind of help treat, you know, people and animals, and raise awareness.

You know, rabies has been kind of, everybody knows you've got to get vaccinated against rabies, and it's kind of been on the rise here a little bit.

And I think because, you know, we kind of slacked off on public awareness for it.

So, when I was in school, in my first or second year, they started National Rabies Day, and really raising awareness that it's still an issue and we still need to be proactive about it.

And veterinarians are going to be at the forefront of some of those options.

So, there's a lot that you can get interested in.

So, it's a very exciting career, but unfortunately, you know, only the 29 in the state, and only a few out of the country, so it can be kind of tricky.

But...>>Kate Pleasant: It's small and competitive.

It's, you know I guess you just think, oh, there must be a million veterinarians all over the place, but when you say it like that, it's really a smaller field.

So, why would someone choose vet school over med school?

Because there are a lot of similarities, at least in my thinking.

They would seem that it's a lot of the same education and a lot of the same things that you probably learn.

So, why vet school and not med school?>>Dr.

Kirk: Well, I think if you do love animals, you at least, I mean I know you have to, we just were talking about you have to deal with the owners, as well, but you at least get to interact with the animals.

And I think it is, you know, we always had this saying when I was in vet school that, you know, real doctors treat more than one species.

So, you know, you get to see a bunch of different things.

I mean, no day is the same.

And I am sure human doctors are the same way, they feel the same way that no day is the same.

But, I mean, just the other day one of our doctors was treating a snake, you know?

And so, that's just not something you're going to see all the time.

So, I do think there's a little bit more variety that you might be more interested in.

And I do think there's a lot more security, too.

I mean, think of all the medical malpractice that human doctors have to go through, and we have some of that, but it's just not quite the same.

And so, you know, you feel like you can really practice, and you're not confined and constricted to some of the same regulations that human doctors are.

I mean, we have regulations, and there is malpractice and things like that, but it's not the same.

So, I think you kind of get to, you can really treat how you want to treat a little bit better; you don't have to deal with insurance as much, or if you do, it's a little different.

So.>>Kate Pleasant: Alright.

So, what would you say to someone that's thinking, you know, man, I really love animals, but I'm terrible at science.

I really want to help animals.

I mean, is this still a career for them?>>Dr.

Kirk: Sure, there's all kinds of other ways.

You know, if you don't want to be a doctor, or that's not a time commitment, you know, you're just not into school that much, because you really do have to be committed to that, there are, you know, I think that there are some veterinary assistant programs, but there's also the veterinary technician program, which is kind of in my mind similar to nurses.

Not all nurses, but you know, similar, and that you go for a couple of years, and you learn a lot of the same things veterinarians do.

You learn anesthesia, you learn restraint, you learn, you know, catheter placements and things like that.

And they actually do rotations at the U of I under other technicians and with the veterinary students, learning all of that.

And it's a shorter program, it's less expensive, and you can start, you know, handling animals.

And some people actually prefer that because you don't have to deal with the owners quite as much, sometimes.

You actually get to deal with the animals a lot more.>>Kate Pleasant: It's a little more behind the scenes.>>Dr.

Kirk: Mmhmm.

It's a little more hands on.>>Kate Pleasant: And so those would be the people you call, when you call the office, that's who you speak to first usually.>>Dr.

Kirk: Yeah, you might speak to, well, it depends on the office, but you might speak to a technicians or an assistant, or even just a secretary, as well.

But most of them are pretty educated.

But yeah, the technicians are very well informed, and they, you know, when we have busy days, they're able to take over and do procedures like catheter placement and things like that that a doctor doesn't necessarily have to do, and we can go see the next sick one.

So, they are invaluable, you know, to our profession, for sure.

And it's a great way to still be involved if you're just not interested in the time or financial commitment of veterinary school, or you just don't think...

I would say anybody can try the science, because I am not, physics and things like that were very hard for me, but you know, it's what they call kind of weed out classes.

It's not that I use physics every day in my profession, but it will definitely help prepare you for some of the rigors that your career is going to have.>>Kate Pleasant: Sure, absolutely.

And would you say, you know, because I'm sure people are out there wondering, you know, oh, I bet veterinarians just make hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars together, just like medical doctors.

That's a little different.>>Dr.

Kirk: Yeah, that's a lot different, especially, you know, if you're looking in Central Illinois, it's going to be a lot different.

Your standard of living is going to be a lot lower, as well.

So, it just kind of depends on where you practice.

Our student loans, if you're taking them out from the federal government, their interest rate is very high right now.

And so, that can add up really quickly.

So, you know, we may make a decent living, but I would say most of it's going towards paying the school back.>>Kate Pleasant: For a long time.>>Dr.

Kirk: For a long time.

Yeah.

So, I mean, if you looked at, you know, what I was driving, I'm not driving the nicest car, you know, I don't live in the fanciest houses.

But we're not doing this, the majority of veterinarians are not doing this for the money.

They're doing it for the love of the animals and the people who own them, you know, for everyone's quality of life.

So, it's definitely not something to get into for the money, for sure.

I know that human doctors make a lot more, but they also have to put up with a lot more of those constraints that we were talking about.

So, you know, you really have to sit back and think if it's the right decision for you, because it's a lot to commit to.>>Kate Pleasant: Mmhmm.

So, what would you say to someone who's starting to consider this?

What are all the things they do need to consider?>>Dr.

Kirk: Well, I do think you need to consider, you know, if you're interested in committing to school, and you may not get in on the first try.

So, you need to say what would my backup plan be.

And I think a lot of times in interviews, they want to have a backup plan so that they know that you kind of know what you're getting into and what your next step would be if this doesn't work out.

But I think you need to get into the clinic.

You need to get in there, and you need to see if it's something you can really do.

There's plenty of people who get in there, and they can handle everything until maybe they get to a euthanasia, or something like that, that's very difficult to handle.

I mean, you know, you have to be able to handle the emotional and physical stress of a daily routine.

And that's, the more experience you can get, the better.

And the variety of experience, as well.

And then, if that all sounds good, then I think, you know, just finding, researching the programs that you want to do.

Make sure the college you're going to is one that you think would help get you to the next level, to veterinary school.>>Kate Pleasant: Okay.

What would you say is the most difficult part for you of being a veterinarian?>>Dr.

Kirk: I think I have a really hard time leaving work at work.>>Kate Pleasant: [Chuckles] Okay.>>Dr.

Kirk: You know, I'm not taking puppies and kittens home, but I will just get at least one or two cases a day that just, they just kind of nag at me, and I just, I want to fix them.

And a lot of times, because they can't talk to us, I have to go by what I see and what I, you know, feel, and everything, and sometimes that's not enough to get an answer.

And I want answers most of the time, and I know people want answers, too.

So, I have a hard time leaving it home, and I will spend time researching or, you know, thinking about it, or what else could I have done differently, you know.

And I think it's a lot of, a lot of us are Type A personalities, and we just can't let it go.

So, that's something that I struggle with and, you know, I work on it.

And I'm a newer grad, so I think that comes with time, as well.>>Kate Pleasant: So, that compartmentalization maybe takes some time.

Well, and what is the best part, then, for you about being a veterinarian?>>Dr.

Kirk: Oh, I mean, there are so many great parts.

I mean, obviously, the puppies and kittens are wonderful.

But really, you know, when you have a challenging case, and that animal is able to go home because of something you did, you really cannot compare that to anything.

It is extremely rewarding, and it just really makes you feel good.

And those are the things you have to remember when you're having a bad day.>>Kate Pleasant: Mmhmm.

And do you have any ultimate success stories that just really made you happy over your, you know, career so far?>>Dr.

Kirk: Yeah.

Well, I mean just this past couple weeks ago, when I was having all those really difficult cases come in, I had a couple, one was very, very sick, and I was convinced that we would be spending a lot of time in the hospital together, and actually were able to send that patient home after a few days of treatment, and is so far doing very well.

And another one that I had, it was a surgery I had never performed before, and it was an emergency, it needed to be done right away, not something that could wait to go up to the university, and you know, I was like, well, let's try.

And that dog also was able to go home, which is amazing, you know, to say that I helped that animal.>>Kate Pleasant: Mmhmm.

Alright.

And so, you know, veterinary medicine is evolving, as it always is.So, what do you see it looking like 20 years from now?

You know, what are people going to need to be knowing as they start to try and get into this?>>Dr.

Kirk: Well, I, it's, now, just in the last years, more women vets than male vets, which was a huge turning point.

Also, where they've gotten into a little bit of, I don't know if I'd say crisis, but something like that, a shortage, where a lot of people aren't doing the large animals as much.

You know, because it's longer hours, and if women want to start families or anything like that, obviously, that's very hard.

You can't in the middle of the night, nine months pregnant, go, you know, pull a calf or something.

So, there's some changes there, where you might actually be trying to entice men into the field, but it has become a predominantly female field.

So, I think you're going to see a big turn into, you know, more of the research and things like that as they start to get out of the daily practice sometimes.

But I don't know.

I think there's a lot of options there.

I don't think 20 years ago, they would see where we are now.>>Kate Pleasant: Mmhmm.

Right.

And well, with technology and all those kinds of things, it's all going to be different.>>Dr.

Kirk: Sure.

And there's, I mean, a lot more corporate veterinary clinics showing up.

I know people have probably heard of Banfield, which is connected with PetSmart, but there's also VCA and things like that, because it is obviously, in this day and age, kind of risky to be a small business owner.

And so, there's some support and security there.

So, you might start seeing a trend to more of the corporate world, too.>>Kate Pleasant: Okay, so there might be something different out there for everybody.

Well, Dr. Marci Kirk from Albin Animal Hospitals in Mattoon and Charleston, we thank you coming on the Paw Report today and enlightening us about the veterinary field.

So, thank you for coming.>>Dr.

Kirk: Thanks for having me.>>Kelly Runyon: If you are a veterinarian, trainer, groomer, specialist, rescue organization or shelter that would like to partner with The Paw Report by providing expert guests for the show, please contact us by emailing weiu@weiu.net or call 217-581-5956.

If you have a topic you d like to see on the show or questions for our experts contact us with those too!>> Kate Pleasant:Did you know full episodes of The Paw Report are on YouTube?

They can be accessed at www.youtube.com/weiutv, then just go to The Paw Report playlist and select the episode you want to see.

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