<Narrator> Making It Grow is brought to you in part by Certified South Carolina.

This cooperative effort among farmers, retailers and the South Carolina Department of Agriculture helps consumers identify foods and agricultural products that are grown, harvested or raised right here in the Palmetto State.

Mcleod Farms in McBee, South Carolina, family owned and operated since 1916.

This family farm offers seasonal produce, including over 40 varieties of peaches.

Wesley Commons, a full service continuing care retirement community located on more than 150 wooded acres in Greenwood, South Carolina.

Additional funding provided by the South Carolina Farm Bureau Federation and Farm Bureau Insurance and Boone Hall Farms.

♪ opening music ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ Well, good evening and welcome to Making It Grow.

We're so happy that you can join us tonight.

I'm Amanda McNulty and I'm a Clemson horticulture agent and I get to come over here and be with my good friend Terasa Lott and Terasa, it's like continuing education, I always say, because we have wonderful people that come in and we get to answer questions that people have submitted and hear different interpretations.

<Terasa Lott> You are right.

It's learning for us as well as we hope for our viewers, too.

<Amanda McNulty> And Teresa, of course, you now have a new position and we're so glad that they still let you come and help us because you're the Midlands district director and I think your home base is Sumter.

<Terasa Lott> It is, yes.

So a new chapter in my extension career.

I'm sad or I have mixed feelings about leaving the Master Gardener program behind, but I know it's in capable hands with all of our Master Gardener coordinators, two of which are sitting here tonight.

I'm excited to be kind of overseeing the operations in the Midlands district, and let's see if I can get all the counties, Lancaster, Lee, Kershaw, Sumter, Orangeburg, Clarendon, Calhoun, Richland, Lexington.

<Yep> Did I get them all?

<Amanda McNulty>I think you did.

Well, maybe you need to get a tattoo.

[laughs] <Terasa Lott>Have a little cheat sheet on my hand.

That's right.

<Amanda McNulty> But then, if you change, if you got moved to another district, who knows?

Anyway, and then Christopher Burtt, you're the urban horticulture agent in Berkeley, Charleston and Dorchester.

That's a big area with a lot of traffic.

<Christopher Burtt> It sure is and it's growing fast.

I will say that it's definitely growing fast, but it's a wonderful place to hang out and I will say we have wonderful people there.

<Amanda McNulty> Well, and you yourself, I think, are in Moncks Corner, which is an absolutely charming place.

<Christopher Burtt> It really is and it's a little bit outside the heaviest population, but it is quite nice.

<Amanda McNulty> Yeah, it really is lovely down there.

Okay.

Well, thanks for being with us.

<Christopher Burtt> Thank you for having me.

<Amanda McNulty> Okay.

And Carmen Ketron, you are the hort age over in Darlington and Florence.

And and I will also say you do the most beautiful flower arrangements of anybody I've ever seen.

<Carmen Ketron> Thank you.

I do love the flowers.

It gives me really good therapy just to get out there and play with the flowers.

I love it.

<Amanda McNulty> And when our dear friend Tony Melton's funeral occurred, you did such a lovely job.

<Carmen Ketron> That was a huge honor.

And everyone and I went big for that one.

Big for Tony, I love that.

<Amanda McNulty> Yeah, he deserved it.

Yeah.

Okay.

And then we've got some fun things that you're going to enjoy learning about.

We're going to the South Carolina Botanical Garden, and they have a carnivorous section there that's really fun.

And you're going to, it's just pretty fun.

We get to open things up and see how the squishy, nasty smelling things inside them.

And then a fellow in Orangeburg, Steve Katzberg, has a citrus grove with really, really, really hearty citrus that he drinks.

He is picking lemons and making lemonade all winter practically, Terasa.

<My goodness> So, that's going to be fun.

Okay.

Well, Terasa, I bet we have some gardens of the week of people who manage to at least keep one part of their yard absolutely beautiful.

<Terasa Lott> That's right.

Gardens of the Week.

That means it is your time to show off what you're doing in your yard, your garden, maybe with your houseplants, or even a beautiful place that you've visited.

And we have many of them in the state.

Let's take a look.

We begin with Tami Kyre.

I hope I'm pronouncing her last name correctly, with Yellow Jessamine, our state flower, which is meandering through a hedge.

From Clay Williams, he says his tulips are doing well in Florence.

So congratulations to Clay.

Mike Pedings sent in also Yellow Jessamine, but this one is growing amidst a Saucer Magnolia.

And I just love the combination of the yellow and that vibrant pink.

Really nice contrast From Barbara Gibson, She sent in a Yellow Saucer Magnolia blooming in Lancaster that she said she got years ago.

And last but not least, Carolee Grindel sent in a magnolia I had not seen.

Magnolia laevifolia and this one is called inspiration and it has creamy, white, fragrant flowers, and I wish we could smell through the television because that fragrance is something special.

<Amanda McNulty> Yeah, they really do just nothing like it.

And my favorite one for fragrance is The Sweetbay Magnolia.

<Yes> I just think it's just wonderful.

And of course, it's a native, which is nice too.

Okay.

I'd also like to tell y'all all that I do radio spots that are played on South Carolina Public Radio, and, oh, you might want to listen to them sometime.

All righty.

Well, I bet people have questions.

<Terasa Lott> They do, and I know they are excited to have us back on the air and at their disposal, so to speak, for for answering questions.

Our first one comes in from Bill in Edisto, who's growing lavender and said everything was going well, but all of a sudden some of them began to die back.

What is going on and what can I spray?

<Amanda McNulty> Hmm.

Well, Christopher, first of all, you can't spray away everything.

And so finding out what it is is so important before you do anything.

Isn't that right?

<Christopher Burtt> Yeah, that's a common question.

I get is, you know, what can I spray and I always kind of caution that's probably should be your last resort if you don't know what it is, especially don't get anything out.

We want to figure out first what is going on and then, of course, try to figure out if there's a solution.

<Amanda McNulty> Well, so there lavender was coming along fine and all of a sudden I said that Daphne gets the up and dying disease because it seems like every now and then Daphne just...

But, so this lavender sometimes gets the up and dying disease, too?

<Christopher Burtt> Yeah.

It's very, very similar situation.

So lavender, of course is a very popular herb that unfortunately is not a great one to grow along the coast.

And so I'm definitely a little bit guilty of this.

I'll by lavender everywhere I see it but you have to be careful what species and cultivars you get.

So lavender, there's several different types.

We have some luck with Spanish lavender.

We have some luck with some of the new cultivars that are hybridized to withstand the heat.

But even if you grow the best type for our area, you have to remember that we have a native phytophthora species that affects lavender specifically, and that if you have it in your soil, which you can test for it, but if you have it in your soil, there is no way you're going to be able to grow lavender long term.

And so my... <Amanda McNulty> That doesn't come back in a regular soil test?

<Christopher Burtt> No, not a regular soil test, correct.

You'd have to send it off to our special lab for it.

In reality, if I'm just a home gardener like I do oftentimes is I just plant it in a nice big pot, put it in in a fairly sunny location, but not full sun, and I just enjoy it year after year.

Again, it's going to outgrow the pot eventually, and eventually I'll have to get a new one, but they don't like the humidity, they don't like the excessive rainfall and they do not like our soils nearly as much as they should.

And so it's one of those things that if you're going to grow lavender, just be very cautious with it.

<Amanda McNulty> It's not like you have to pay $100 to get one.

<Christopher Burtt> No, they're very easy to grow, very easy to propagate.

If you have one you really like, I'll oftentimes take cuttings from it.

And so that way when it when that one dies, I just replace it with one of its little clones.

<Amanda McNulty> Okay.

Well, thanks so much for telling us.

I really appreciate it.

All right, Terasa.

<Terasa Lott> We're going to move across the state or up the state to Marion and Rita has, we'll call it a manipulation question.

She says, "Is it too late to make my pink hydrangea blue?

It has buds on it already."

<Amanda McNulty> It has flower buds on it.

<Terasa Lott> She didn't specify, but I would assume she's talking about flower buds rather than budding leaves.

<Amanda McNulty> She has a pink one.

She wants it to be blue.

You know, when I was young they used to say, go put rusty nails in the soil and stuff like that.

But, things have changed a lot since those days, I believe.

<Carmen Ketron> Yes and a lot of the times, the cultivars that are available in the big box stores, you can't change them based off of changing the pH of the soil.

<Amanda McNulty> They've got other attributes that are positive.

I mean, there'd been a lot of improvements.

<Carmen Ketron> Oh, yeah, lots of disease resistance, I mean, just beautiful, beautiful flowers.

I love 'em and we can get them in all different colors from pink, purple, blue, whatever you want.

So it's kind of hard to tell if it was one of the old growth types that, one of those beautiful heirlooms where even if you're doing it, you're not getting it done this year.

If you're going to manipulate that pH, you really want to take maybe two or three years to get it there.

<Amanda McNulty> And why not just get one that's the color you like and enjoy that one and leave the other one alone just 'cause it might not change anyway, even if you went to all this trouble and are putting all these things in your soil?

<Carmen Ketron> It's a lot of work when we have the ability to go out and just pick what you want and have a gorgeous, gorgeous plant.

So, yeah, six in one, I mean, you get to choose, but I would say just go pick the one you like and have fun.

<Amanda McNulty> Okay.

There you go.

Well, everybody's going to the car wash and getting the their house pressure washed and all because it's that time of year and we've got yellow stuff everywhere and that's the pine pollen.

And so I stopped and - oh, it just smells wonderful!

Pine trees smell wonderful.

<Terasa Lott> I do love the fragrance of pine.

<Amanda McNulty> Anyway, so these are the male pine cones that make the pollen and I was looking up about them and they are, they tend to be on the lower parts of the trees and the female pine cones that are going to develop and be the big old pine cones that you pick up and, you know, make turkeys out of at Thanksgiving and stuff like that.

All that kind of fun stuff; Start fires.

They're at the top of the trees.

And so that ensures that the tree doesn't pollinate itself.

Cross-pollination is better, you know, for improving the species.

And, but interestingly, pine pollen is somewhat heavy.

And, it has to be airborne and so if you look at it under a scope, it looks kind of like Mickey Mouse.

It's got these two air pockets on either side of it to help carry it.

And they used to think that it was getting the blame for causing allergies and things when it shouldn't have.

Apparently, some people really are allergic to it.

Most, mostly, I think most people are [heavy sniffing sound] carrying on about or their nose is The carrying on, is other trees that are pollinating right now that have inconspicuous pollen.

But anyway, I just love pine trees.

And so I was and I think they're really pretty when they have these on them.

And I'm so, how about that; And they smell great.

<Terasa Lott> It is fascinating.

And most people probably are not aware that, you know, there's a mail cone structure, it has a fancy name, but we'll just call it a male.

<Amanda McNulty> Yeah, let's do that.

<Terasa Lott> And you don't really see them except for that when, you know, they've got this yellow pollen.

And now if you look carefully, you can it like illuminates the tree.

<Amanda McNulty> Yeah.

I mean, I was coming home from Columbia and pulled over on the side of the road 'cause this was one that I could reach.

You know, a lot of times that I have a hard time reaching, for lots of reasons.

But anyway, and I just said this is just wonderful.

And then I had this in the back of the car and it smelled so good.

And interestingly, this is a whole leaf.

This is three leaves.

Each one is a leaf in a fascicle.

So, you know, <Terasa Lott> You can use that to determine the species, right.

The number of needles in that little bundle.

<Amanda McNulty> Yeah.

So pines are just wonderful.

And also, you know, agriculture is the largest part of South Carolina's economy and the timber industry is the largest part of agriculture.

And so pines are extraordinarily important for sending people to college and all kinds of things.

<Terasa Lott> And trees in general.

And I think the timber industry maybe has a bad connotation or reputation in people's eyes, but in South Carolina it's very sustainable.

More are replanted than are harvested.

<Amanda McNulty> And it's a crop.

<That's right> Yeah.

So people just think of it that way anyway.

Don't sniff.

[laughs] So, the South Carolina Botanical Garden has a wonderful- has several wonderful sections.

And we're going to take you to one of those today.

♪ <Amanda McNulty> I'm talking to Trent Miller, who is the manager of the Natural Heritage Garden at the South Carolina Botanical Garden in Clemson.

And, Trent, I think today we're going to see the Bog Garden or Gardens.

<Trent Miller> Yes, we have two different sections of our garden in the coastal plain area.

We have this, which is more of the collection and the display.

That's what we call it.

And then we have the flat woods boardwalk, which is really how you would encounter it.

<Amanda McNulty> And why the, why the oyster shells?

<Trent Miller> That's a historic building material on the coastal plain, so, since that's the setting for most of our carnivorous plants.

<Amanda McNulty> How wide is their spread with the outliers included?

<Trent Miller> With the outliers included, Sarracenia, which is the genus for pitcher plants, can occur all the way up into Canada and down through Texas, I believe.

But most of the more unique species are restricted to the coastal plain of the United States, with a couple getting up into the mountains.

<Amanda McNulty> Now, when we say carnivorous, these plants aren't getting most of their energy from capturing insects and things.

They still are photosynthesizing like mad, but they have certain nutrients that are hard to get in these wetter soils?

<Trent Miller> Yeah, and specifically acidic soils.

When you have really acidic soil that kind of binds a lot of the nutrients that are important for plants to use, specifically nitrogen.

And they're technically more, we call them carnivorous, but they're really insectivorous.

They really only eat insects.

So that's how they fertilize themselves, basically, with that nitrogen.

<Amanda McNulty> And there are two ways they go about that.

Some of them are active, probably not as quick as that, and then some are passive.

So let's talk about the different ways that they can do that.

<Trent Miller> So right here we've got a pitcher plant pitcher, and this is an example of a passive trap.

It's a pitfall trap.

They will just literally fall into this.

This is technically a leaf and the digestive juices on the inside.

Now, there are things that it does to entice them to come in, like this white coloration attracts moths at night.

<Amanda McNulty> Come on.

Really?

<Trent Miller> And it also produces a bit of a a poison around the edge that kind of intoxicates things and makes them fall in.

<Amanda McNulty>Whoa.

So they go to their death happily.

(laughs) <Trent Miller> Yes.

Supposedly.

But they also use the rotting bodies of these other insects to attract things like wasps or things that are carnivorous.

<Amanda McNulty> In their own right.

Yeah.

<Trent Miller> And you can also get other animals that will live inside of these.

Like some caterpillars actually live inside and hatch out, so they don't only kill insects.

Sometimes they have, you know, a beneficial interaction with them as well.

<Amanda McNulty> Gosh, that's just fascinating.

And so actually, it's to their advantage to let the smell of the decaying insects bring others in because they don't have to then produce that substance themselves, which is energy taxing.

Okay.

And they also have a fascinating flower, if I'm not mistaken.

<Trent Miller> Now, these flowers no longer have petals on them, even though they still look like a flower.

The petals actually block the entrance into this flower structure here and forces the insects that are carrying the pollen to crawl over the area that is receptive to that pollen.

So it forces pollination without having the pollen to be stolen from the flower to begin with.

<Amanda McNulty> What are some of the ones that are more active or some of the other ones that we would see while we're standing here?

<Trent Miller> So, Venus fly traps are famously pretty active and they are actually related to another active trap, which is the sundew.

They don't move nearly as fast as Venus flytraps do, but especially the spoonleaf sundews will slowly curl up over their prey to cover them in those digestive juices.

<Amanda McNulty> And then there's another that works just by the little hairs on them, that's taller.

The sundews I was used to seeing, I'd have to get down on my hands and knees and stick my nose in, practically.

But there's one that you said is is far taller.

<Trent Miller> Yeah.

We do have a threadleaf species of sundew that grows more like a grass and it just kind of catches things.

That one doesn't move very visibly.

It's really just those hairs that kind of fold over the insect.

<Amanda McNulty> Now, it takes energy for a Venus flytrap to close.

I mean, that's energy.

And so, do they automatically respond the minute?

Like, if I put my finger on it would that make it respond, or does it take, does it have a little bit of ways of telling that I'm not an insect?

<Trent Miller> Yeah.

So they require two triggers of these little hairs inside the pad to be tripped within a certain amount of time, usually rapid succession before they'll close because they live underneath pine trees a lot of time and they don't want to snap underneath or snap for a pine needle.

<Amanda McNulty> Not a lot of energy in that, but the sundews, I think you said just the ones that are active, they do just close on up.

<Trent Miller> Yeah, just slowly roll up.

<Amanda McNulty> So, if you go to a place where these are on display, you shouldn't be poking at them because they are having a hard enough time making a living.

They're having to extract nitrogen from these insects that come into them in some ways and just the whole overall process of being a plant.

So we don't want them to use their energy responding to us or some little kid who's going, dang, dang, di-dang, dang.

[laughs] <Trent Miller> Venus flytraps specifically usually has only like three closings per trap, <Amanda McNulty> Whoa!

<Trent Miller> So, it's generally better not to.

<Amanda McNulty> And it really is, I think, a problem with people kind of poaching these plants.

They have a specific place they need to live and we wouldn't be able to take home and just start a garden with.

<Trent Miller> Yes.

And not only is poaching threatening them, but habitat loss due to development and fire suppression, because a lot of our native carnivorous plants require periodic fire and disturbance to maintain the habitats and sunny enough for them to survive.

Otherwise, shrubs take over and shade them out and then they disappear.

<Amanda McNulty> And, of course, we know when there was millions of acres of longleaf pine habitat in our part of the world, fire was occurred naturally and then at some point apparently also by indigenous peoples.

And that also made a place where insects would come because one of the things that we have is when we're here, we've got a lot of other flowers that are attracting insects.

<Trent Miller> Yes.

Yeah.

It really does foster a lot of biodiversity aside from just plants as well.

And yeah, it's, it's, it's important for everything that lives in our area to have the right biodiversity.

<Amanda McNulty> Well, it's just fascinating to think that for those of us who don't get to the special places where they sort of occur in nature, we can come right here and see this and so many other wonderful things at the Botanical Garden.

And if people want to come, I believe y'all are open all the time.

<Trent Miller> Yes.

Just not at night.

Every day of the week.

<Amanda McNulty> Sunup to sundown.

<Trent Miller> Yeah.

<Amanda McNulty> Thank you so much.

This has just been delightful.

I loved learning more about carnivorous plants.

<Trent Miller> Thanks for coming.

♪ The South Carolina Botanical Garden has really created almost all of the ecosystems we have in South Carolina up there in miniature.

Just a tremendous place to visit.

And isn't it's fun to see all those smelly bugs and think of what plants do in order to get all the nutrients they need.

Really cool.

So hats, hats, hats.

So I had, I was out wandering around the yard and I found some aucuba that was in bloom.

And that's the big red berry.

I mean that's the fruit from last year, but it's also in bloom with this year's little tiny flowers coming on it.

And that I like that one a lot.

And then which anise is this, Christopher?

<Christopher Burtt> So that's the red Florida anise I believe I'd have to check on the species for that but yeah, it's the red one.

<Amanda McNulty> Yeah.

But anyway so that's so this is the aucuba and, and then this is the anise and than also we have in there, we have some forsythia which is just a wonderful spring flowering shrub and I don't, a lot of people I don't think are familiar with it perhaps,Carmen, and they want to make it a littlem round bush.

<Yeah> And forsythia inspire a lot of us early spring bloomers.

Well, it had this beautiful flowing kind of v-shaped those.

<Carmen Ketron> Yes.

<Yeah> And it's really important to let them have that natural form 'cause it really is a lot more striking than if you just, everything's in a box.

[laughs] We're flowing people in a square world What are you gonna do, though?

<Amanda McNulty> Anyway.

But, anyway, I do love those early spring bloomers that just wonderful.

Oh, righty.

So, Christopher, you got something for us?

<Christopher Burtt> Yeah.

So I was actually out at one of the box stores, and they always are, <Amanda McNulty> Have that shelf where things got... <Christopher Burtt> Yeah, they have the clearance section.

And one of my favorite groups of plants to grow is, of course, the orchid.

Orchids are a very large family of plants.

And of course this is the Phalaenopsis orchid, which is the moth orchid.

<Amanda McNulty> And we actually have a couple here, they just not as showy.

<Christopher Burtt> Exactly.

We have lots of native orchids here.

And in fact, we have one native epiphytic orchid, which is what most of your orchids are that you buy at the store.

they're epiphytes, which is kind of what I'm going to demonstrate their air plants.

And so they actually those roots are going to be very big, very lush, and they're going to try to pull as much water and nutrients out of the air.

And so they actually don't get grown in potting mix.

They get grown in what is known as orchid mix, usually very light, very well drain is key.

<Amanda McNulty> So these the epiphytic ones are ones that are perhaps in trees and or hanging out in a crouch or on a branch, but they're not putting roots into the tree or anything to get nutrients.

They're just absorbing things through the air as they become available?

<Christopher Burtt> Exactly.

So aepiphytes are not parasitic.

They are just pulling from the air exclusively.

And in fact, you can see the one I have here is grown almost, almost completely in Spagna Moss, which looks crazy.

In fact, I've got another orchid here that is grown without any roots or without any mix whatsoever.

And so that's again, just an air plant.

I mean, that's all they need.

The idea is, is the more humidity, the better.

But that is going to pull everything it needs from the air.

You do not need a potting mix, really, as long as it's getting the water it needs, which again, every once in a while don't it.

But that's that's really about it.

And they're very easy to grow.

<Amanda McNulty> But have to bring these inside in the wintertime.

<Christopher Burtt> Yes.

So these are, of course, going to be tropical to subtropical plants.

They're not going to be able to tolerate very cold weather.

So if it gets below 50, bring them indoors.

But I've got a nice little area inside that I keep them under a light for the day when it's too cool and then during the spring and summer, they love it because it's humid, it's hot.

These absolutely love it.

Just figure out the right sun for the right type.

And of course, the one I've got here from the, let me sit that down, from the clearance rack.

So often times orchids are fairly expensive.

And so if you're thinking, I don't want to try something that I've never done and spend a bunch of money on it.

And so the best thing to do is go find your one, find yourself one that's somewhat alive.

As you can see, there's still some green growth, but the first thing you would want to do is you would want to break apart those roots.

These are pretty... <Amanda McNulty> I mean, you really having to crack open.

<Christopher Burtt> Yeah, well, this is the mix that it's in.

You really want to break that apart.

Oftentimes soaking it is the best thing to do first, which I did a little bit, but it didn't do it enough.

<Amanda McNulty> Well, it's working out.

<Christopher Burtt> Yeah, it's coming apart.

But the idea is, is you want to prune the roots.

The other thing you're going to do and this is going to hurt a little bit to watch is you're actually going to cut off the flower stems, even the one that's got flowers on it, The idea is <thank you> is that is taking energy away from it.

And since I want to bring it back to life, <Amanda McNulty> I got it.

I just use my teeth.

<Christopher Burtt> I'm going to bring it back to life.

You're going to really get those roots open.

<Amanda McNulty> It's not poisonous.

<Christopher Burtt> No.

No It's not though we don't eat orchids except for one, most of them.

So as you can see, all these roots are going to come out.

These actually look pretty good now.

I mean, most of the time when I see orchids that don't look very good, you rarely want to look at the flowers of the foliage and say, if it's going to do well or not.

What I'm going to do oftentimes is I get rid of the two older leaves and then I'm going to get this.

Likely what I'm going to do now is soak it, but I'm going to get it in a mix first and I'm going to cut off a lot of these old roots.

And so this is kind of a process where you want them, if they're shriveled or dead, you want to start pulling them off.

And oftentimes <Amanda McNulty> So put some of the ones that you're cutting out, so you your glass so we can see the old one.

<Christopher Burtt> They look dry.

They look, and the ones that are nice and lush, those are the ones you want to keep.

And if you cut off a few good roots, that's okay.

It's not going to be the end of the world.

The idea is is like you would with a shrub when you prune it, you're trying to increase that new growth and that's the entire concept.

<Amanda McNulty> Now, the one that you have kept hanging in your house without being in a pot or container, are you going to root, prune it at some point?

<Christopher Burtt> Yes.

So oftentimes what I do with that one as it grows, as it produces new roots, I'm going to go through and root prune that one as well.

And the idea is going to be to encourage new growth.

And so when I go to take this now, what I'll do is I've got it fairly well and I'm going to use a pine bark or whatever bark mix.

Usually you can find these at the store.

<Amanda McNulty> Move your watergrass, move it over towards Carmen.

<Very coarse> This container, I can't quite see from down here.

Is it full of holes?

<Christopher Burtt> It's got holes in it because we want lots of air flow through those.

And so I'm going to get a pine bark mix.

Pine bark just readily available.

So you're not worried about pH or anything like that.

And you're going to get it in there.

And as you put it in, you're going to just use a little dowel or a little stick and just kind of settle it in.

You don't need to get it packed in again.

This is an air plant.

This is not going to need to pull all that.

<Amanda McNulty> Now where did, okay.

And you can find these cool containers at different places.

<Christopher Burtt> Yeah.

Box stores oftentimes sell them.

Sometimes you'll see them at nurseries.

They're hard to find the whole ones.

But once you're done, the idea is now you can allow that orchid to start to regrow.

So I like Phalaenopsis as a good starter one because they don't need a lot of sun.

And so now I've got it in a good mix.

I'll give it a lot of water and let it dry out in between watering.

<Amanda McNulty> And you're not going to put fertilizer in the water.

<Christopher Burtt> Not really going to do much to it at all.

I'm going to try to get some new growth before I do anything because I don't want to damage those roots.

Even if it is an orchid fertilizer, you want to kind of be a little bit careful with it.

<Okay> <Carmen Ketron> And can I interchange that Sphagnum Moss with the pine bark?

Is that okay?

<Christopher Burtt> So that depends on the plants.

So Phalaenopsis, a lot of some of your more standard types are often going to really like it a little bit drier.

Sphagnum is going to hold that moisture a little bit better.

<Amanda McNulty> And it's not a renewable resource.

<Christopher Burtt> No, it's not.

So if you're going to grow orchids that like a little bit more water, whether it's some of the other ones, generally you're going to want it to be you can use the sphagnum or if you're just going to grow it as an air plant, you can put a little sphagnum around it to hold some moisture on it.

Kind of like the van der I showed you.

But if I'm going to do it in a container, I always recommend using a bark mix because that bark will drain a lot better.

It will hold just enough moisture.

And again, you're kind of monitoring a little bit better anyways.

<Amanda McNulty> Wow.

I wonder what they're what feeds on them in their native areas.

I've never thought about it.

You?

<Christopher Burtt> So you get some some insects that'll feed on them, but they have really cool interactions with pollinators.

And so if you ever look at the flower, the flower is fairly complex looking.

I mean, for a for a plant that's essentially closely related to grasses, you would think it wouldn't be that.

It would just have aerial pollen, it would be kind of simple.

But those flowers, the Phalaenopsis is fairly complicated.

<Amanda McNulty> There's a lot of crawling around that goes on?

<Christopher Burtt> Yes, but once you start getting into a lot of other ones, you can get some really fascinating ones that have traps in there that make sure only certain insects can get in there.

A lot of orchids have very specialized pollination.

And so that's why we generally don't worry about our orchids pollinating, because those specialized pollinators don't exist here.

<Amanda McNulty> What a fascinating world!

<It is> It really is.

Thanks so much!

<Of course.

Thank you> Well, Terasa.

<Terasa Lott> Well, since that was sort of a show and tell, we have a question from Gerald in Lake View, but it also kind of goes along with show and tell.

He said he was walking down the road and found what he thought was a mushroom growing on the side of the road and would like to know if we can identify it for him.

<Amanda McNulty> Ah!

Well, did you get to see the picture and have an answer for him?

<Carmen Ketron> Yes, I saw the picture and then I went out into the forest and found exactly what he was talking about.

So we could find it is actually a Fern Fiddlehead <Amanda McNulty> And Fiddlehead because it looks like the top of a fiddle.

A violin.

<Carmen Ketron> Exactly.

And a lot of people will call it as a fiddlehead fern.

But when we're talking about these fiddle heads, this is the immature version that just hasn't leafed out yet.

What will end up happening, you can kind of see is that they slowly just start to open up and they are just the funniest looking things and then what I think he thought was the fungus 'cause he just hadn't seen the fern, and then we have that pubescent that very nice little fuzz.

<Very> And so immediately after I said, Oh, it's the fiddlehead of the fern, everyone want to ask, Can I eat it?

Because that is a delicious little snack that you can kind of rose up near where Terasa and I are from in the northeastern part.

<Amanda McNulty> Yeah, I've never had one.

I've got some fern fiddle, that was in my yard and tried to cook when they were not tasty.

[laughs] <Carmen Ketron> The one that's most commonly sold in all the fancy stores is going to be the ostrich fern, which doesn't really grow in our area.

So I would say we probably don't want to eat this one, but they are just so fun and they're so funky.

So you kind of get excited, but it's not a it's not a mushroom, it's not a fungus.

It's actually just a fern.

<Amanda McNulty> And so go look at ferns in your yard.

I was wandering around and saw a good many that were just coming up with that little fiddlehead.

Not with this amount of pubescent on them?

But, that's how they all are spinning up new growth.

They're just wonderful things, aren't they?

<Carmen Ketron> We just love them.

Nice little harbinger of spring kind of.

<Terasa Lott> We should probably reiterate that not all of them are edible.

Apparently Bracken ferns are carcinogenic.

So, you know, we got to know what we're doing.

We need to be able to identify it properly.

<Yes> <Amanda McNulty> So down here, we may have to go try to find some that were packaged or canned or something.

Or take a trip up there where y'all are from.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That'll be fun.

Do you remember seeing and when you were growing up up there?

<Terasa Lott> I don't remember.

<Amanda McNulty> And your grandmother, of course, your mother was not in the United States, so she didn't have that in her historical background.

I guess.

<Terasa Lott> True, true.

We spent a lot of time outdoors, but I did not really live close to woodlands that would be inhabited by the ferns, So maybe that's why.

Either that or I just have a bad memory.

<Amanda McNulty> I think that, you know, continuing education that Terasa and I enjoy so much is something that y'all are trying to kind of provide some basic education to some people through the program y'all developed.

<Christopher Burtt> Yeah.

So both me and Carmen are actually working on we have a series coming up.

It's the Home Horticulture Foundation series.

<Okay> So it's a webinar series, It's going to be in April, going into May, And of course the entire concept is, is whether you are experienced or inexperienced.

But if you're new to the area especially, this is kind of going over all the basics and all even a little bit of some intermediate material, but of gardening in this area, oftentimes I get the question, you know, Hey, I've never garden before or I've never garden in South Carolina.

That's just kind of where we're going to come in and try to go through as much as we can and kind of get you kind of prepped.

It's kind of like a boot camp, almost.

<Amanda McNulty> So, Carmen, are different people going to be the instructor for different sessions?

How's it going to work?

Yes, We've got a four person team from all across the state that's going to go over a number of different topics.

And so then we also have two field days at the end of the session that you can do as well, one in the low country and one in the upstate where we'll have a number of agents as well as master gardeners doing hands on demonstrations so you can actually get your hands dirty, learn how to plant that, learn how to put out your granular fertilizer, whatever it may be.

And so it's a little bit interactive as well.

So you get a whole range of people and teachers.

<Amanda McNulty> And I think you said that the places y'all are going to go in the lowcountry, you go to <Brookgreen Gardens and Merle's Inlet> and Christopher, you and I awhile back were there when, Doug Tallamy came to speak and you were on a program and I was just sitting there trying to remember and learn again from him.

But so many of the people who were there helping tell me that they were master gardeners who volunteer out there.

Isn't that, I mean, I think that's just almost the background of their volunteer force.

<Christopher Burtt> Oh, absolutely.

It's a lot of gardens around the lowcountry or like that.

They have a really good volunteer group and a lot of them are master gardeners.

<Amanda McNulty> And then the Botanical Garden, they told me that they could not get along without volunteers, that they really, I mean, there's just a huge area.

How can you possibly up with everything and once again, Terasa, the people whom you used to shepherd around the master Gardeners are wonderful volunteers and are always giving back to the community.

<Terasa Lott> That is right.

They have a a service oriented heart.

<Amanda McNulty> They do.

Okay.

Well, citrus, citrus, citrus, we all know about the satsumas and some of the things that are a little bit cold hardy compared to some of the others.

But this gentleman had the most remarkable array of things.

Let's go visit Steve Katzberg.

♪ joyful guitar music ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ I'm in Orangeburg, South Carolina, speaking with Steve Katzberg .

And Steve, you spent 40 years up in Virginia as a research <engineer> engineer for NASA?

<I did> And now here we are sitting at a citrus grove.

And I think one of the interesting ways that you discovered your curiosity about citruses was that you and Walter Edgar so well known the South Carolinians were in high school together at military school and had a little bit of a friendly rivalry about Charleston and Mobile.

We did that.

Yep.

<Steve Katzberg> And so like that, that got me to reading about a lot of history of South Carolina.

And how was Charleston really a great place, what were characteristics of it and that kind of led into looking into what's unique we could do in South Carolina.

And one of those is citrus.

<Amanda McNulty> And because they had tried to establish a citrus industry in South Carolina, but they just the trees would live for a certain time of years and then something cold would happen and that would be the end of them.

<Steve Katzberg> What we consider the the commercial citrus, lemons, limes, grapefruit, oranges, They're not very cold hardy.

And even though they would go for a while and in Charleston go for a few years cold snap would come and destroy whatever commercial groves you had.

So as a commercial investment, after you put all this time and effort in them, they'd be destroyed.

<Amanda McNulty> And you, being a researcher, started looking and looking and looking and found out that sometimes all you coul d get were seeds, but you found some true hardy citrus.

And I believe in your yard here, you have kind of the mother of those.

Let's talk about that.

<Steve Katzberg> Right.

They're kind of like two branches.

One of them is just some native citrus that are hardy and there are others that are hybrids.

The USDA tried to make a bunch of hybrids back in the 1880s.

Some were successful.

Most are not.

And, but if you look into the and into the actual citrus industry, you find out there was one citrus, which is considered the mother of a lot of the hybrids.

And it's the most cold hardy, evergreen citrus that exists.

It's called the Ichang papeda.

<Amanda McNulty> And so from that one, I think many of those slightly acidic ones derived.

<Steve Katzberg> That's correct.

Well, even though the citrus Ichang is the Ichang papeda is to me, inedible and smells like a goat and the juice is even worse.

If you cross it with, say, a pomelo you'll get Ichang lemon.

It's still sour taste, but taste great.

You cross it with a tangerine and you get yuzu or citrus junos, which is which is used in Asian cooking.

The Ichang lemon again crossed between papeda and citrus maxima pomelo, it can also be used in Mediterranean cooking.

If you get the fruit, a huge fruit, one fruit will make enough lemonade for lunch.

It's like if you take it and and cut it out and put it in a glass jar, put salt on it, put another layer and then keep doing that until you fill it up and leave that alone for about 6 to 8 weeks.

It will last for months and is used in Mediterranean cooking, tangerine chicken and stuff like that.

<Amanda McNulty> Goodness.

And then also I believe that there are some that you take to local Asian themed restaurants because they like to make a certain sauce of them.

<Steve Katzberg> Right.

That's the the the yuzu or citrus junos.

That plant is highly, highly valued by Thai people, Japanese people and Vietnamese, and they use it to make their ponzu dipping sauce.

There are no real sources of yuzu in the United States, so it's a potential door yard industry for South Carolina to provide that, to have your own yuzus provided to your own Asian restaurant.

<Amanda McNulty> And so some of these plants that would not be a particularly good just let's have a wonderful orange the way your mother and my mother would get an orange for Christmas one a year.

But some of these now that we have specialty restaurants and and we want to promote South Carolina agriculture certified South Carolina grown, I believe that you and Zack Snipes and Philip Carnley <from Clemson> are working to try to come up with some ways that these trees can be reproduced.

And the chefs in Charleston, in some of these cities with these wonderful restaurants, can o ffer from the farm to the plate.

<Steve Katzberg> Absolutely.

That's something I think is the objective of the Clemson research is being done.

I gave them some plants with there that they're evaluating down in Charleston, but yeah, that would be the objective of this is to be able to provide citrus for the local restaurants and local industry.

<Amanda McNulty> So then there's some that are just sweet.

And let's talk about the two favorites that you have that are fun to eat out of hand.

<Steve Katzberg> Well, there' s three because we can start with a kumquat, which these are Meiwa kumquats.

People know about kumquats.

A lot of them draw your mouth up as soon as you chew it.

Sweet, sweet rind, but sour in the middle.

<Amanda McNulty> Well, when you eat those and I love them, you just need to bite down on the whole thing.

<Exactly> You have one that very different.

<Steve Katzberg> It's called Meiwa.

It's a, there are several kumquat varieties and Meiwa is sweet al l the way through.

So th at's one of them.

And then the two tangerines, Keraji, Changsha and I also have a U.S.D.A.

plant that was developed that was s uccessful called Thomasville citrangequat makes some of the best Scottish or English marmalade you ever ate.

<Amanda McNulty> These tangerines aren't like the little cuties and things that we get in that they have a few seeds on them, but not particularly that many.

And the flavor is perfectly delicious.

<Steve Katzberg> They're sweet and flavorful and you can take 'em off the tree when you want them.

Not when it's too early and they're still a little bit tart.

So absolutetly.

They're very, very sweet and they incredibly flavorful.

<Amanda McNulty> And I believe you can keep them in the refrigerator for weeks.

Is that true?

<Steve Katzberg> Yeah, I mean, kumquats, You can keep them there a couple of months for the tangerines, maybe a month or so long as you keep them cool and they'll last a long time.

Take them off the tree when they're ripe, put them in the vegetable keeper, and they'll still be there several weeks from then.

<Amanda McNulty> When I look around, I see trees that look two different ways.

Some of them are just great big full trees and are covered of fruit right now.

And then some of them are kind of scrawny looking.

They're just maybe one stem coming up.

What's going on there?

<Steve Katzberg> Well, they're two guys who have been experimenting with this down in Texas that I knew and one was Studen Agal and the other was William Chapman.

And Studen Agel came up with the theory that if, you if you graft on to trifoliate orange or some other rootstock, that's hardy, very hardy if you graft on them the higher up, the hardier they are.

So I've done that as an experiment down here with this group we have here.

<Amanda McNulty>The disadvantage of that is if we get a freeze that kills the rootstock, you don't have the wonderful fruit that you've gone to a lot of trouble to get.

<Steve Katzberg> Or you kill the top, nothing is going to come back out except the rootstock.

That's inedible generally.

<Amanda McNulty> But with these, if some rare event comes and it kill to the ground, it's probably going to re-sprout with the exact same tree.

<Steve Katzberg> If they're grown on their own seed, from their own rootstock it's the actual plant all the way down on the ground.

You wait for a while and out will come green little sprouts and you tend those and back will come the tree.

There's one other thing too, is that if you take the seed like this, we're talking about the Changshas or even the ones that are frozen back the ground.

The one good thing about the citrus, it doesn't take forever for them to start fruiting again.

<Amanda McNulty> Oh.

All right.

And some of them actually come through from seed.

I think that was how you told me that you got some of them.

<Steve Katzberg> Nucellar seedlings.

The most seedlings that you get out are actually identical to the parent.

There are very few sexual reproduction seeds that come from that.

<Amanda McNulty> Isn't that something?

And then I'm not accusin g you of being lazy, but honestly, it doesn't look like you spend a lot of time thinning these trees or so that light can get to them and all kinds of stuff.

It looks like you just planted them and here they are.

<Steve Katzberg> Well, that was the objective.

Both cold hardy enough.

The fruit comes soon enough so it doesn't get frozen and they take care of themselves in the yard.

Heroic methods.

You want to build your greenhouse, then you're welcome to do that, but if you just want to have one out back that in October, you can walk out like we're doing now, take you some tangerines in, squeeze them in the morning, make lemonade that's available to you without heroic efforts.

<Amanda McNulty> And you're not having to spray for pests or diseases.

I don't even think deer bother them <Steve Katzberg> No.

Deer don't bother them and there's no animal that bothers them.

The only thing that we get is when they dry up.

When the citrus is finished, if I have been eating them, the squirrels will come out and take the dried up ones and eat the seeds out of them.

So I say that more power to you.

Get those off the tree, take them somewhere else and eat the seeds and don't bring them back.

<Amanda McNulty> And then also when they come into flower, is it kind of like peaches if you, if the if the blooms are harmed by late frost, can that affect the crop?

<Steve Katzberg> Yes.

In fact they they tend to bloom peaches a little bit earlier, but these bloom in April.

But same with peaches and same with these about the same time.

If we get a late frost, it's going to destroy not only for the the flowers, like for peaches, but it'll also damage the limbs and stuff the branches on the tree.

<Amanda McNulty> So you won't have any fruit the next year.

<Steve Katzberg> Right.

You'll see, you'll see some here.

Well you won't have them that year, right.

And if you see notice some of these around here, they have been damaged in the past.

We've been through 15 degrees about eight, nine years ago, ten years ago.

And we just went through 14 degrees now.

And you take a look and see.

You can see the residue of the damage just sitting there.

The trees are perfectly flushed out and look great.

<Amanda McNulty> Well, I just think this would be the ideal backyard fruit.

They're not enormous.

They don't take a great deal of care.

And they'd be a wonderful source for vitamins.

And to encourage everyone in your family to eat in a more healthy way.

I hope that there will be a way that you can take your success and we can find people to make this more available.

<Steve Katzberg> Well we know now, which plants will do it.

We know that this far south in South Carolina, you can go at least 15 years without any damage to a commercial crop, whether it was Ichang lemons or the Changshas, Thomasvilles.

So that tells us that there's an opportunity here to expand where is not just in Orangeburg but all the rest of the gateway and into the Lowcountry.

<Amanda McNulty> Gosh, I want to thank you so much for all the years of effort that you've spent studying this and establishing this wonderful globe that I think is going to lead to making this more widely available.

Thank you so much, Steve.

<Steve Katzberg> My pleasure.

♪ ♪ <Amanda McNulty> We ended our visit with a glass of delicious lemonade made right from those lemons out in the yard.

<Terasa Lott> It doesn't get any fresher than that.

<Amanda McNulty> It really doesn't.

[laughs] Well Terasa is there someone else has a question?

<Terasa Lott> Of course.

We're going to go back to Edisto, its popular place.

Rose is hoping we can help her.

She says they live on a saltwater creek, about 18 acres.

Lots of wildlife, raccoons, birds, deer and fencing has only been partially successful.

But she wants to know, what would we recommend as a, the best blackberry to grow in that area?

<Amanda McNulty> Oh, goodness.

I remember when we had a place out in the country that was real sandy, and we'd go get a, carry little basket bags with us and get them picked out.

blackberries and Mama make a pie.

Blackberry pie's really fun.

Christopher, what do you think?

Could she maybe have some success down there?

<Christopher Burtt> I think she can have some success.

Blackberries, of course, are a large group of plants.

Actually, quite a few of them are native to the area.

The biggest issues with blackberries, of course, is going to be there is some maintenance going into it.

Blackberries are also only moderately salt tolerant.

So if you're trying to grow it and you have saltwater intrusion constantly, or if it is just really heavy salt spray, you might get a little bit of damage here and there.

Just be aware of that.

That being said, blackberries are an excellent one to grow.

Of course, there is some disease concerns that are appearing, especially on the coast that I'm seeing.

One of the big ones right now is orange felt, which is a, actually it's a parasitic algae.

So it's not even a true disease.

It's a parasitic algae that's growing.

It basically looks like someone painted your canes orange.

And unfortunately, it is rather devastating because it causes pretty significant decline.

<Amanda McNulty> And there's no treatment for it.

<Christopher Burtt> There is a few treatments.

Though copper does not work.

There are a few other treatments that have some minor effects.

I do think, though, if you're going to grow blackberries, a good thing to do is make sure you're cleaning your pruners when you bring them and you're pruning them regularly in order to keep them as lush and as healthy as possible.

Remember, blackberries grow as a perennial root system, but a biannual cane, so that cane is going to produce growth one year and then flower the second.

Once it flowers and fruit, you cut that cane off, get rid of it so that way, no disease can transfer over.

And if you do that pretty regularly, you should keep them pretty healthy.

<Amanda McNulty> Now there's, aren't there spineless and spiny blackberries?

<Christopher Burtt> There's more types than we can count.

But yes, there are thorns, there's thorn less.

There's ones that have some.

I would not I would try pick ones that don't have the spines of the thorns because for the most part, it's not going to deter the deer.

Thankfully, blackberries aren't your first choice, but it's also, as we are aware of in the coast there, when they get desperate enough, they'll eat almost anything.

<Amanda McNulty> There's no deer-proof plant.

<Christopher Burtt> Exactly.

So just be aware of that.

I would grow ones that are easy to grow for, for yourself and of course, make them easy to pick for yourself and try to protect them where you can.

<Amanda McNulty> Okay.

Well, thank you so much.

And again, it's not terribly expensive to buy some and try them.

And so I would encourage you to give it a try.

<Christopher Burtt> Exactly.

They're pretty easy to grow.

<Amanda McNulty> Okay.

Terasa, is there something real quick, Maybe?

<Terasa Lott> Well, I selfishly want to talk about my little tulip here.

So tulips generally don't perform well or can only be counted on as an annual because they require a cold period.

This is a species tulip.

It comes from a warmer climate.

So this is Tulipia bakeri ‘Lilac Wonder' And it's a very petite little to look, just not as showy.

But this, this should come back.

This isn't second year in my landscape, and it's petite and tiny, but it does make a pretty show, especially if you have some yellow daffodils.

So with that yellow heart in the center.

<Amanda McNulty> Okay.

And Carmen, you said just kind of count them as an annual on this.

<Carmen Ketron> Well, <the other types> yes.

Most of your other types that you're used to.

I usually just plan to plant some.

They'll come up one year and I dig them up the next year and let it let it go.

But it's exciting to know that we have some options this year to come back.

<Amanda McNulty> Okay.

Well, thank you all so much.

Gosh,I've learned so much today.

This is really, really been fun and I hope that you all learn some stuff at home as well and that you will be tempted to come back and join us next week right here on Making It Grow.

Night!

Night!

♪ closing music ♪ ♪ ♪ <Narrator> Making It Grow is brought to you in part by Certified South Carolina.

This cooperative effort among farmers, retailers and the South Carolina Department of Agriculture helps consumers identify foods and agricultural products that are grown, harvested or raised right here in the Palmetto State.

Mcleod Farms in McBee, South Carolina, family owned and operated since 1916.

This family farm offers seasonal produce, including over 40 varieties of peaches.

Wesley Commons, a full service continuing care retirement community located on more than 150 wooded acres in Greenwood, South Carolina.

Additional funding provided by the South Carolina Farm Bureau Federation and Farm Bureau Insurance.

And Boone Hall Farms.