Hello, and welcome to The Bookmark.

I'm Christine Brown, your host.

Today my guest is Amy Jackson, author of "Cassandra and the Night Sky" and "Little Sky Bear and the Dragon."

Thank you so much for being here today.

Thank you for having me.

I want to start by just asking you to introduce these books to us.

What are they?

I love to.

So this is "Cassandra and the Night Sky," and this is "Little Sky Bear and the Dragon," and they both are reinvented constellations stories.

How did you.

I know these books must have grown out of your own personal interest in stars and sky and astronomy.

How did you become interested in this topic?

Well, I've loved space since I was a small child, and I grew up in Houston and NASA was in my backyard.

So I was very inspired by the space program.

And so that just kept me looking up as I grew older.

And went to U of H and learned a lot about astronomy and physics and then loved teaching.

So I was a science teacher for a short while, and what I really loved was astronomy.

And so I learned amateur astronomy while I was at U of H, and fell in love with the night sky at that time and decided, I'd like to teach kids and adults how to, about the night sky and about amateur astronomy.

So I started a business doing that.

And, these stories came from that.

It they actually came from a summer camp that I taught.

And one of the activities was that the kids would make up a story about the night sky, and they made their own constellations.

They connected the dots to the constantly the stars in the constellation.

And they made their own story.

And they inspired me so much that I wanted to make up a story to tell them.

And we shared stories during the camp because, I this grows out of the idea that, almost every society and civilization has had their own stories, their own names for these stars.

I think that's a lovely idea to keep that tradition alive.

Because just because maybe in our culture, we've name something kids should still use their imaginations to, to build on that.

I really love that idea.

I bet they have fun doing it too.

Yes, and everybody's stories were different, and they were all meaningful to them in some unique way.

And that's how Star Story started in the first place.

What do you think it is about the stars that, that holds this, fascination and interest for thousands and thousands and thousands of years.

Well me personally, well a couple things.

I feel like they hold and wonder still, like when we look up at the night sky, there's still a lot of questions yet to be answered about the universe and the origins of our universe.

So it can go as deep as that.

Or just seeing celestial phenomena and even seeing a sunset, and then seeing the stars start to rise above the horizon.

That's inspiring and fascinating.

And so we start to wonder and ask questions.

So for me, they they hold that opportunity to to wonder and ask.

And and that's related to science and inquiry.

And I find that all fascinating.

I feel like a lot of, a lot of parents I know who have small children.

The concern is they're they're so stuck in their phones or watching TV.

It's a hard enough to get them just to read a book.

But we can still do that.

But getting them outside, especially sometimes the night sky, that's not, an activity we always think about for our kids, because it's maybe after the bedtimes, but it's looking up at the sky, seeing celestial events.

If there's a comet or if there's an eclipse or something with the moon.

That's an important, thing to to get kids excited about, for sure.

I agree, I agree very much, and the recent solar eclipses were very key part of getting people interested in looking up again.

So I feel like, those are amazing and things happen during the daytime, but the night time really holds all the the mystery and the beauty.

Absolutely.

So, "Cassandra" is your first book.

This is your follow up.

What was that like, translating this passion into into writing a book?

Oh, gosh.

Well, as I said before, like, the really the campers at that camp were the inspiration.

And the activity came about from an activity from the Astronomy Society of the Pacific.

And they do a lot of beautiful astronomy education, family friendly, kid friendly activities.

So that was one of their activities.

And they the kids inspired me.

I just thought, well, let's do this.

This would be fun.

And they started writing stories.

And so hearing them tell each other their stories, I got so excited that we were doing a star party that night.

Actually, we had the whole campus during the day, but one night was at one gathering was at night.

And so on the way to the, gathering is when I made up the story like I was driving, writing while I was driving with my pencil.

So they really, they really inspired me.

And I felt like, you know, why can't we make up new stories about the constellations as as people did in the past, just like you brought up?

Like we can still make up new stories.

We have new stories to tell.

These are all old stories which are great and we need them.

But it's time to make up something new.

Absolutely, I love that.

How did.

But then how did.

So you wrote the story, but then how did you think?

Well, I want to make a book.

I want to turn this into that.

No, no.

That's fine.

So.

Oh, gosh.

Well, I started to tell it at star parties.

So I do guided constellation tours often at star parties.

And I started to tell it over and over again.

And so I got kind of refined over time.

And then I realized, luckily, I have this awesome mom who is a wonderful artist, and I thought, we've got to bring this to life and put this in people's hands.

And this is so doable.

We just have to do this.

And so that's that's where the idea came from.

Yeah.

I wanted to talk about working with your mom because I'm, first of all have to say the illustrations in here are beautiful.

The way she depicts the night sky, all those stars all lit up.

It's just it's it doesn't glitter because the pages and sparkly, but it feels like it glitters.

Like she did such a great job with that.

What was that like, working with your mom?

Oh my gosh.

Well, you know, a mother daughter.

Relationships are complicated.

Wonderful.

At the same time.

And it was a lot of it was very interesting because my mom is the artist and I have these ideas of how things could look.

Right.

So a lot of it was us, me trying to communicate to her how I wanted it to look, but also give her the freedom and agency to make it look the way that she was inspired by as well.

So it was a collaborative effort, and, you know, it wasn't always easy.

It was challenging on both sides.

Like, hold on, I don't know what you mean.

Oh, I'm trying to say this.

Let me send you a picture.

And we don't live in the same city.

My mom lives in Brenham.

I live in Austin, so a lot of FaceTiming phone calls.

My mom got good at using zoom, and that was helpful.

And then we would meet in Bastrop and talk like we try to meet halfway.

That's what I well, it was clearly work, so I'm glad I know it's not always easy.

I think it's not easy working with a collaborator for a book in general, but when you add a personal relationship, it can.

You can.

You don't want to hurt anybody's feelings, but you have your idea.

So can you- Let's listen to you tell the basic kind of plot of what "Cassandra's" story is.

Sure.

So that that time when we were doing that space camp that I keep mentioning, it was the middle of summer.

And so the night Sky tour I was doing that night, we were having a star party for the campers was the Summer Sky.

And so the summer constellation tions were all out.

So the story was relevant to what you could see about an hour after sunset in mid-July.

So I picked some of the main constellations that make very distinct shapes in the sky.

So for this story, I saw Cygnus and Cygnus.

Looks like there's a swan and Scorpius.

This scorpion is a scorpion in Sagittarius really looks like a teapot.

And it's also known as the teapot.

And leaving one out.

Very important.

Oh, Cassandra!

The main character!

And so she's represented by Cassiopeia the Queen.

So I saw all those constellations that run through the Milky Way and thought, like, I'm gonna make up a story about these.

So I kind of started there.

And then from there, well, what happens to those to these characters?

And the teapot being the steam, the steam from the teapot being the Milky Way to me was very obvious because sometimes I say it looks like a teapot and there's steam coming on.

That's the Milky Way.

So I went with that.

And so that has to be the main part.

But what happens?

What how did that happen?

You know, where's the drama, the tension and the excitement.

And there's some kind of, something conflict that happens at some point.

So started coming together that way.

That's lovely.

I do want to highlight I love that in your story.

The, the teapot is also known as Sagittarius because I feel like if you're not, if we're not well-versed in the names of the constellations, we may have heard one name.

But as you've read, we discussed they have different names in different cultures.

So that kind of is that first seed planted like, well, just because that's what one person calls it doesn't mean everybody has to call it.

So I like that the whole idea grows from, from even an adult going, oh, I didn't know it was that also.

So let's let's reevaluate.

Let's, let's call this something else.

I think that's, that's really cool.

Okay.

And then the second book, what is kind of the plot for that one.

So I was thinking about what constellations you could see at different times of year.

So I want to do a book for each season.

But some of the constellations in that story, you can see all year around, they're called circumpolar.

So they kind of circle the North Star throughout the year.

And I don't know that one.

I just felt like I want it to be all mainly animal characters if I can.

But there's all character in there that's not an animal.

And then there's got to be a constellation you can see in fall to winter to early spring because you can't see Cassandra's- some of Cassandra's constellations all summer- You can see in summer, but not all year.

And you can't see The Hunter, for instance, and Little Sky Bear in the summer.

So how can we get people?

I really want to get people to go outside and find these characters in the sky.

So let me pick something, you know, that has a very distinct shape that actually is pretty well known.

So Orion is The Hunter in "Little Sky Bear and the Dragon, and he's just called "The Hunter" in that story.

And the bears, if people haven't figured it out, are Ursa Major and Ursa Minor, which are also ones that we probably are familiar with seeing, even if you don't know the right names for them necessarily.

Yes.

And then Draco is hard to make out unless you have kind of a dark sky.

He's actually a challenging constellation to to make out can be.

But the other constellations, the stars are so bright even in light polluted skies.

Depending on how bad you can make out some of the stars from them.

I actually really love that because if Draco is our dragon, maybe they are a little harder to see.

Maybe we're not used to seeing you know, we see the sea birds all that often, but bears are around, hunters are around, but having to look a little harder to find our dragon.

I really like that.

I like that too.

I never thought of that that way.

That's.

I think that's a really kind of little elusive.

You don't always see them exactly fighting.

Perfect.

You do.

It's amazing.

I know, the back of the books also includes star maps.

Why was that important for you?

Oh, I really want to encourage people to go out and actually find the characters, so I thought that would help them, maybe guide them to do that.

And the star maps are taking from some star maps that I use in educational activities and at star parties and programs that I print out and teach people how to use.

And my mom use that template and made her own artwork for it.

So there's something that you actually can take out and use and try to find the constellations with.

I love a book with dual purpose.

You can read it before bed, but then maybe the next night you can take it out and go look at the stars with it.

That's wonderful.

What age range would you say these books are recommended for?

I always find that question hard to answer, actually, and I miss that a lot.

And I need to answer that question a lot.

But, I mean, I have I feel like I have told the story to, I would say starting with kindergarten age and up, and I have told it to middle school ages, I mean, high schoolers and adults too.

And they all find the story interesting.

You know, there's something interesting about it, just a star story in general.

So I feel like it's a general audience.

Oh, that story.

But the book, I can see it being more geared towards age five to maybe like lower elementary, upper elementary age, lower grade school.

Absolutely, absolutely.

So this grew out of your love and your business.

Can you tell us about what your, your, your, your starry sky business?

Sure.

About.

Sure.

It's called starry Sky.

Austin and I started it just on a I really started it because I was my kids were very young and I was teaching science, and I wanted to be more available to them.

So I started the business to kind of marry my passions of education and, and focus on outdoor astronomy education.

So, so it's teaching kids how to use telescopes at night and adults to and so I just started programs and people signed up and we met once a week for a month, and I brought the telescopes and the learning, and we gathered together and learned together.

That's one is really fun.

You mentioned light pollution.

I would I would think everybody could kind of extrapolate what that means.

But can you just kind of describe the concept for maybe people who don't know?

Sure.

Yeah.

So, so one one sad thing is that I believe it's 85% or so.

If I have my statistic correct, it may have gone up.

People aren't going to see the Milky Way.

They will never be able to see the Milky Way.

And it's mainly because most of us live in major urban centers.

And so if we don't have the opportunities to go out to rural areas, maybe your family isn't into camping or you just haven't ventured far from the city, you're not going to have the chance to see the Milky Way.

So, light pollution is what causes that.

The sky glow.

It's just the scattering of artificial light in the atmosphere, which reflects off all the atmospheric particles.

And then it causes sky glow.

So that pretty much clouds our view of the stars.

So my hope is that people and kids, everyone gets inspired.

They want to go out and see the constellations, and then they ask, well, I can't why can't I see that?

Well, it's because of light pollution.

Well, what can we do about that and start to want to help?

I think I've seen maps of, you know, and major centers, as you mentioned, but even here in College Station, you know, it's it's not great in the city center.

So we all have to travel maybe a little bit to see.

But you don't have to travel super far necessarily to get.

I mean, you have to maybe go far west Texas to get that totally dark, 100% dark sky.

But you can travel just a little bit outside of your, your bubble.

And because you do these these star parties around Austin, which I'm certain has a lot of light pollution, it does.

And really, I mean, I really tell people, you don't have to go far.

There really is something to see up in the sky.

I mean, I'm from Houston originally and was pretty bad light pollution, but you can see some bright stars still and the moon is very inspiring.

So it's nice to go to a really, truly dark sky, though when you get a chance to do that, it's just amazing.

It's an inspiring, it's calming, it's it's connecting you to our ancestors who looked at the same stars.

And so, having a chance to see that, I think it also inspires people to to wonder and ask questions and learn science.

That's what I think.

That's are my feelings about it.

That there's a lot of talk about Stem education and how important that is.

And I feel like, well, when it starts with this wonder and this art inspired experience, then you are inspired to want to learn more and ask questions.

And so, yeah, to be curious and be curious around you.

Absolutely, absolutely.

So what can we do to support Dark Skies or to reduce the amount of light pollution on a local level?

That's it's such a good question.

And I, I've but I've heard that light pollution is the easiest pollution to solve.

It's about turning off the light.

And it's really not all about turning off the light.

You don't have to have no lights, but just about thinking about how we use outdoor lighting.

Is it necessary?

There's some color temperature involved.

LEDs are very popular these days.

They're really blue end of the spectrum or like white, really bright LEDs.

And when I say that, people are probably thinking, oh yeah, there's a glaring one, I know that I it's bothered my eyes at some point at night I'm driving or something.

Right then you headlights on.

Cars are actually pretty blinding.

So if you think about more color temperature, like the sunlight, daytime color that matters and you can shield lights instead of just shining everywhere, you can have it shine where it's actually needed.

You can put them on motion detectors and timers.

That's helpful too.

And just turning it off if it's not necessary.

And, you know, a lot of artificial light at night has not been shown to keep streets safer.

There is a study from Rice University done recently where it actually showed that crime followed where lights were put.

And that's really fascinating.

I think we have a fear of the dark that's pretty ingrained.

So there's a lot of excuses of, well, it makes it makes everything safer.

And I understand that.

I understand that feeling, but the data just hasn't shown that.

That's true.

So I think it's just changing our relationship with light and just thinking about it a little bit before we use them, maybe being more, intentional about what kind of light we're choosing, how we're shining, all that kind of.

Yes, absolutely.

Absolutely.

I know there's lots of organizations and, International Dark Sky Project Association, something like that, where we can people can learn more information, join up or all that kind of stuff.

Yes, yes.

So there's a dark Sky international and there's a Texas chapter of dark Sky international.

That's, dark Sky Texas.

And they're the, the statewide organization for dark Sky international.

And so they're a good resource for sure.

In the Hill Country, there's the Hill Country Alliance, and they have a night sky program.

They're a great resource.

Really, there's a lot of amateur astronomers, if you're interested in amateur astronomy, they're interested in saving our sky as well for, for obvious reasons, they want to use their telescopes and see, so yes, there's definitely resources where people could go and learn more.

We may have covered this, but I want to kind of drill down on this question specifically.

You've taught so many children to to appreciate the night sky.

What do you recommend for parents or for people who are answer uncles or take care of children, how they could spark that interest, to to their children or the children they love God the most at the most fundamental level is just going outside.

And I would suggest laying down because you can just strain your neck by looking like this for too long and get comfortable and just sit there, just be quiet for a little bit and you're going to see things.

You're going to say, is that a satellite?

Wait, no, that's an airplane.

It's blinking.

Okay, now that's a satellite.

And that's amazing because they travel 10,000 miles an hour and they take about an hour and a half to go around our planet.

So just little things like that can be really fascinating.

And then you're going to see a meteor at some point.

And that's really exciting.

And taking the time just to sit together.

You'd be surprised what kids start to talk about to when they're quiet and they don't have any distractions.

You might hear stories from the day, which are really great, I love that.

Why would you say it's important to foster this interest in our skies in particular, I guess?

Oh gosh, I, I feel like there the one thing that connect us to our ancestors.

So for me, that's powerful.

And there's so much to learn to meet astronomy, fellow astronomy educators call astronomy the gateway science because it is a very interdisciplinary science.

It's the oldest science.

It encompasses so many different things to understand it.

So I feel like, I feel like that that is a good reason to go look up at the night sky.

Well, we have a special guest here too.

I want to make sure that we introduce him.

We talked to him.

Can you, can you tell us who here I, you this is our friend Draco.

So a very good friend of mine, needle felts.

And I said to her, I asked her, can you make a Draco can take with me to entertain kids and just make it really fun when I'm telling the story?

And she said she loved to.

So Draco is here with us today and he's in the second boat.

I think it's in one of the titular character.

He is.

He's one of the main characters in Little Skiver in The Dragon.

And what does he do in the book?

Yeah, in the book.

Oh, in the book, he so a little skiver in the Dragon.

He comes across, little Sky bear, which is Ursa minor, and Ursa minor.

Foot is caught in a trap and he is on planet Earth, kind of roaming by himself, and he sees little skydivers foot in a trap, and he saves him and they become friends.

And then you have to read the story more to know what else happens if he saves them again.

And gets to meet his mother in the same time.

So.

Yeah.

Oh, that.

That brings up a good question.

Both of these books have I mean, obviously the major impact to the story is looking up at the sky and understanding the stars, but they both do have some, like this one kind of is about friendship.

Also, this one is kind of maybe about appreciating gifts that you don't see the value in immediately.

Was it intentional for you to kind of have multiple themes for kids to latch on to, or was that just grow out of out of the stories?

I feel like that came out of the story.

Maybe it was something in here that I didn't.

It wasn't quite brought to the surface of my thinking, but it kind of came out of the story.

I didn't have that purpose in mind as I was writing it.

Well, it enriches the story, I would say.

Then, I did want to say, this is like Draco's maiden voyage, right?

He's he is he is brand new.

He was just been birth recently.

It's his first night.

It's first time out.

Well, I feel very grateful and, fortunate that I got to be here on his maiden voyage out into the world.

I'm sure he's going to become well-loved.

I think so, I hope so, over the Or as you take him out.

So this book has been out for a while.

And you've read it to a lot of children.

What is their feedback?

Do they enjoy the story?

How do they what do they tell you about it after you've read it to them?

They it depends on the kid.

Like some of the kids, I asked them what their favorite character is and some of them, like Scorpius the Scorpion, they're like, yes, I think you know the bad guy in the story.

And they like the idea of the teapot and Lyra and Cassandra, and some of them, some of them get excited.

They want to go out and find them.

And so that to me is is really great because that's the point.

I wrote it.

That's why I wrote it.

Absolutely.

And this one, this one's hot off the press.

Right.

This one hasn't had his debut voyage either yet.

So hopefully all those kids who got to hear about this story will want to hear about about this one.

What about what about adults and parents?

So how do they how do they respond and tell you that they find these books?

They, I, I feel like they, they follow their, their child.

So the kids are excited and they go and they may be asked to purchase one or sometimes they buy a star.

We also we've made star finders, just like a that's in the book, the wheels that have all the constellations on them.

And they'll buy those and that tells me they're going to go take the kids out.

They're going to go show them the constellations, you know, and then they'll ask, like, what work?

And so where can we see the night sky?

Is anything happening we can come and take our kids to.

So that's an opportunity to share.

Like what events are going on, what kind of star parties are happening in the area that they can go to?

Absolutely.

That's that's one thing I wanted to mention too.

Obviously we're in slightly different locations, but star parties are a thing you should look up and Google for.

Try to find star parties or start one if you can't find one.

Because that's a fun way.

Not just doing it alone, doing it together with a group probably makes it a little more exciting, too.

Oh, I saw that.

I didn't see that.

Did you see that?

That probably kind of increases the kids interest in, I think.

So in that star parties, you'll usually find some awesome and immature astronomers who like to do outreach and education, and they'll bring their telescopes.

So if you don't have specialized equipment, you can just go look through someone else's and ask them what you're looking at.

And that's that's really fun.

That's a reason to go absolutely to make those connections, to spark that.

And even as adults, I think it's cool to look through someone's telescope.

So that's why I love a star party.

Absolutely.

So we've got this new one.

Are you you're going to write those other seasons for us so we can soon need to get inspired or take myself to a quiet place so I can get inspired.

Absolutely, absolutely.

Well, unfortunately, we are running a little short on time.

So in our final couple of minutes, 2 or 3 minutes, what do you hope people take away from these books?

I think it might be obvious, but I want to hear you just kind of put that put that button on it.

I hope people listen to the stories and they feel inspired to go out and just have an experience with the night sky on their own and, and maybe socially to and the and maybe possibly make up their own stories.

But just to start to develop a relationship with the night sky.

Absolutely.

I think I would what I want to do after having read these books is give them to my nieces and nephews and, and tell them to get outside and go out there with them.

Because that would be good for us to look at the sky.

Yes.

Might be good for our relationship to look at the sky together, and maybe we'll learn something or spark an interest in something.

I think these are these are great templates to to start that conversation, to start that project I think.

So thank you.

Well, thank you so much for being here today.

I really enjoy these books.

Thank you, Draco, for being here today.

Also, it was a real treat to have special guests.

I really appreciate it.

Thank you.

That is all the time we've got for today.

Those books again are "Cassandra and the Night Sky" and "Little Sky Bear and the Dragon."

Thank you so much for joining us, and I will see you again soon.