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>> Good evening and thank you so much for watching HealthLine on PBS Fort Wayne I'm your host Mark Evans glad to have you along tonight.

We're going to talk about something very important and something that's kind of risen to the surface a little bit more here lately and we'll find out why.

But it is a child abuse prevention and it is child prevention Month Child Abuse Prevention Month pardon me for April.

>> We have two very special guest here who deal with this subject just about every day and sometimes when they're not working it's probably on your minds a lot but we have Lisa Hollister to my far right.

She is a nurse and director of Local Hospitals Trauma Services Program which is very much engaged with the child abuse factor.

>> And then we have Emily Park who is a child maltreatment nurse navigator and you work with the children quite a bit and their parents as well.

>> So we're going to get into that.

I do want to promote the fact that we have a phone number that we can call and we are inviting you to give us a call and you know, give us your concerns and also ask your questions even if it's not for yourself but maybe for someone else 866- (969) 27 two zero.

>> We'll answer your calls throughout the show.

We have a half hour.

It is public television so we don't stop down for commercials.

>> So let the show begin if you don't mind.

All right.

Let's go ahead and talk about this as a person in this field.

>> Emily , I guess I'll start with you.

>> What constitutes the label?

What encompasses that label of child abuse so child abuse is can include physical abuse, sexual abuse, emotional abuse, the psychological and neglect which there's medical neglect, educational neglect.

>> There's a whole bunch of things that can encompass child abuse in which one of those for factors would you think that is the number one concern?

>> That's a hard thing to answer to a tossup.

>> I say neglect neglect is probably number one now when we talk about neglect are we talking about not being home and the kids get home from school?

>> It's a wide variation for that definition.

>> You know, you may not be getting food or I mean there's just so many things you may not have proper home to live in.

>> You may be homeless.

You know, there's a lot of reasons for neglect but yeah, that's the number one with mental illness among the parents are the caretakers being difficult to take care of kids with it?

>> Yeah, yeah.

I mean potentially so that is a factor too.

>> OK and then how prevalent is child abuse?

Do we have some stats.

Well in twenty twenty one Allen County was number one in the state of Indiana for child abuse deaths and so that's something that we're really paying attention to.

>> There should be zero deaths.

Absolutely there should be zero abuse.

>> So to have eleven in our counties pretty pretty alarming to us and we're talking about children's children.

Yes.

yes.

>> Yeah.

It's a wake up call to us to to pay attention and to help do something about it.

>> And do you know how Indiana ranks among the other states where either first or second for child abuse overall it's alarming.

>> Yes.

Gosh yes.

We've got we've been first and second for probably 15 years maybe that is a very, very long time.

>> Are we getting to the bottom of it?

Do we know what's causing all this?

I mean that's a good question.

I don't know.

>> Sets me back a little bit.

There's a there's probably a million causes.

That's why it's such a difficult challenge to solve the Hannah you know, I don't know.

>> I don't know.

Yeah, that's that's something I ponder and probably look into eventually some of the I want to ask you this is there a particular age group?

>> Probably not but I want to ask this anyway a particular age group the neglect seems to the surface the most and particular gender boys or girls um age wise it's under under five or the I mean not just neglect but child abuse as a whole and then boys and girls are affected equally although boys are more fatally injured, girls are more sexually abused but overall pretty equally and I would say on the physical abuse aspect it's usually under one.

>> Under one yeah.

But the majority I think it's 70 percent are three and below and under one because while they can't communicate that well they can't take care of themselves.

>> Yeah yeah.

And also there you go.

So some common signs or symptoms of child abuse I mean just for instance if you were just sitting in a waiting room somewhere or maybe at the grocery store or have a next door neighbor that you're observing, what are the common signs?

>> And there's a couple of things that we used that I think are easy to remember.

One of them is called Ten For So Ten for .

So what that stands for is that torso ears neck under the age of four if there's any bruising or any marks on any of those areas, it should be a cause of concern.

>> Children under the age of four should not have bruising on those areas so it just makes it more suspicious that it's not accidental.

>> What about the behavior of a child?

Could that reveal possibly some potentially?

Yeah, it's difficult when it comes to behavior especially a sudden change in behavior is more suspicious and I would imagine younger children too are afraid to even talk about it.

>> You know, they don't know because sometimes they comprehend it.

>> Yeah, well know that it's an issue and see that's the sad part.

If they don't comprehend it and they think that this is just the way life is supposed to be that that almost brings honestly tears to my eyes just talking about a lot of things they don't realize that it's not normal until they go to school, see you know and then of course we have what happens as they grow up and they have children.

>> Yes, that's another it perpetuates OK, well go ahead and remind folks about our phone number here.

It's 866- (969) 27 two zero.

We're talking about child abuse and child abuse prevention because April is Child Abuse Prevention Month and we have some very nice ladies here to talk about this at Lisa Hollister, nurse and director of a local hospitals trauma services program which is very involved and we have Emily Park who is a child maltreatment nurse navigator.

So please give us your calls if you have any concerns about your particular household, you don't even have to give your your name.

We can even transcribe the question if you like or if there's someone in your family or someone you know, possibly a friend and this is child neglect there you might want to ask some questions and we're going to get deeper into what you can do if you do suspect child abuse.

>> So let's roll on with that.

If you do suspect child abuse, how can you report a concern?

>> What's the best way?

Yeah, so whenever you're suspicious you should call the hotline or Department of Children's Services hotline which is one eight hundred eight hundred five five five six you only have to have a suspicion you're not making an accusation.

>> You're not doing an investigation.

Something is making use of suspicious of physical abuse, neglect, sexual abuse, emotional abuse even if there's domestic violence in the home that children are watching, it's worth giving a call.

>> All you have to do is call and when you get home you're not going to get a run around or anything because these people are there to help.

>> Right?

Correct.

And any I mean you might have a suspicion but it may turn out to be and maybe that's true but they don't care.

>> They just want to leave in case there is something.

Exactly.

OK, so we'll show that slightly later on in the show if he didn't have a chance to write that number down.

>> And then another point that I want to make is every single citizen in the state of Indiana has a duty to report.

>> Isn't that the mandated reporter?

>> OK, tell us about that.

And so every single citizen is a mandated reporter which means every single person, every one of your neighbors, everybody you you have a duty to report and it's potentially could lead to a misdemeanor if you don't report a story and don't make it correct and it comes back to you that you knew this all the time.

>> Yeah, it's you can get into some legal process possible.

>> So it's just best to I mean it's your system anyway.

Yes.

You do not need to investigate.

You don't need to go interview people.

That's actually not a good idea.

You just have a suspicion you're not even accusing anybody of anything and it is anonymous to open people are afraid somehow it'll come back on them.

>> But you can report and that was my next question.

So even more reason to call a suspect.

>> All right.

So that's what a mandated reporter is and we are all basically everybody everybody everybody.

>> Yes, we do have that responsibility.

How can communities help prevent or help with the child abuse situation?

>> Well, you know, it is paying attention and calling when you're suspicious paying attention to your surroundings, paying attention attention to children in your neighborhoods and where you work and it's literally just paying attention and and when you're not feeling right or you are suspicious and saying something and speaking up now if you see a violent occurrence yourself with your own eyes, you should probably call the police.

>> Oh, same time right now you right now.

Yeah yeah.

You don't don't you want to call Dix's as well?

>> Both of those need to be called so Deakes and the police.

Yes.

>> OK now what do those two organizations work together.

Yes yes.

So yeah all right all right.

We do have a question coming in.

In fact it's from James he's asking you to stay off the air.

But what are the easiest part?

I mean what are the easiest red flags that someone might miss if a child is being physically or mentally abused?

>> Very good question, James.

Thank you.

>> Who I don't know if there's any one easy.

I don't think there's an easy way to answer that difficult question.

So especially mentally abused that's a very difficult to understand whether it's occurring but like a sudden change in behavior or grades or something that you see suddenly otherwise when it's a long standing from the time of birth it's difficult to know.

But if there's if there are delays, you know, in like Emily was saying sometimes we don't know until they start kindergarten if sometimes they have developmental delays they may not not be developed and having those milestones that doesn't mean they're being abused but it's worth checking out.

>> What about a child who is just withdrawn and sad and those be some red flags?

>> I mean there must be something going on.

>> Yeah, try to be happy and smiling and laughing and playing.

Right.

Right.

Yeah.

>> Yeah.

So and it's not again we're talking not necessarily just the physical abuse but we're talking about mental abuse as well.

>> Yes.

Yes.

And domestic violence in the home watching domestic violence and as the kids get older you know again as I mentioned before, this is probably the way they think they should be.

>> So it has to be stopped has to be stopped.

OK, I want to ask you this because now that the covid thing, the pandemic at least in the United States is pretty well put to bed, thank goodness hopefully we won't see it rear its ugly head again.

But so many things happened not only that would affect children but adults as well during the so-called pandemic with with having the staying home being locked the lock down and the isolation period did we happen to see a rise in child abuse during that time and then thereafter it's hard the data isn't all there yet and it's hard to say because when all the schools were closed we don't have as many people reporting you know, so teachers reporting and we don't have all of those reporters that are typical to us reporting and so so we don't really know we don't know what the data looks like but also at the same time not just with child abuse but just injury and trauma went up overall like every type every type of violence.

>> So gunshot wound stabbing, car crashes, everything went up.

It was like a parallel pandemic, you know, but but I don't think all the information is in yet when it comes to child abuse.

>> Probably too early way too.

Yeah, we have running through a lot of our questions here but I want to go and talk about your individual positions and we'll get into more of what folks can do.

But you, Lisa, as a nurse and the director in this hospital's trauma services program, tell me what is your role?

>> Oh, that's a difficult one to explain.

>> So I well, I oversee all of trauma, you know, at a hospital and so basically looking at every type of injury that comes in.

So like what I was just mentioning gunshot wounds.

>> Car crashes.

Yeah.

And so when it came to abuse even before twenty twenty one we had a year where there were eight deaths and that was our call to action.

>> So we have to start participating in some way.

The medical community needs to have a part in some way because for most of the time it's been a social legal system, the social justice system that's responsible but now we want to be responsible as well and come alongside and assist and so we want to take part in and helping with the overall problem.

>> OK, it sounds like you've got a lot of responsibility there.

Yeah, but when it comes to you, Emily , you're being a child maltreatment nurse navigator.

>> What's your role?

So I identify these patients that are a part of I work closely with D.c.'s and the case managers and they'll reach out to myself or the physician that I work with and get these patients into a clinic that is the medical piece that we kind of are trying to tie together so that none of these children fall through these cracks if they're seen in the emergency department and they're lost to follow up.

You know, that is a problem right there.

So getting these children into a clinic, getting them established with a primary care doctor, getting them resources, we have a scan social worker that's also present and so getting those social resources available to them as well just kind of helping to put these families back together, just kind of wrapping them up in service because they they need so much.

>> Yeah, it can be reversed.

I mean in a home that has a lot of child abuse and those parents who were raised in a very abusive manner, can that be turned around?

>> Can can there be a stop to that?

There are a lot of and I see hesitating difficult thing to answer.

>> You know, what is their lifelong outcome.

Right.

That's that's a difficult and I think for every person is different because everybody responds differently, you know, but typically it's going to they're going to have lifelong consequences and health problems really intervention is key.

>> So I think intervening with these children when they're young or intervening with the parents when the children are young, you know, to help them positive parenting classes, scandals offers so many resources to help get these parents kind of back on their feet if it is a financial problem that's causing stressors, if it's really like mental illness or drug addiction, anything like that, they can help at least connect them to resources to get them help so that they can better care for their children.

But yeah, and that's that's really more of what we're doing is is connecting people to resources that they need rather than trying to say this is what you did.

It's not it's not that it's what do you need.

>> Yeah, well that's help with that so that we can get people out that situation.

>> Exactly.

Now I want to turn to maybe just a tad bit darker here.

We're talking about trauma.

We're talking the emergency rooms and so forth.

But when you have cases that come in a child that has been abused, you know, neglect is a different arena and what I'm talking about right now.

But do they come into the emergency room?

How are they admitted?

How are you able to see them in the first place?

>> Um, it's difficult.

It's a variety of ways.

>> Yes.

Yes.

I mean I don't see parents saying hey, we're going to the because I just beat the heck out of .

>> Yes.

That probably wouldn't be the most common no no.

>> But it you know, probably a scenario would be you know someone that's watching a child or some a relative or that's probably more likely than than the actual parents the parents want to do the right thing and get everything checked out and I would say that that's probably what we see the most but it is all scenarios and they may not be brought in really not bring them in, may bring them so it's not you know, so it's all scenarios and from all directions it could be the E.R.

and doctor's office.

It can be you know, just from anywhere.

>> Yeah, well I find that fascinating too.

I mean the fact that these people are actually getting help for these children and that's where I think it was coming from you know, how are you able to help these people?

>> For the most part people do want to do the right thing.

Sometimes it's just a lack of resources or just not knowing.

Yeah, Let me throw up a scenario for you and this is a true life scenario I witnessed my life but there was a lady who had a next door neighbor who actually and we're talking gosh 40, 40 years ago maybe 50 but it was during the time I was growing up in a neighborhood in Indianapolis very nice lady had several grandchildren but she had a knack for whipping her kids and she would take a I think it was a switch and I swear one time maybe I saw Coathanger but she used to spank her kids on the legs and give them a big cussing in the backyard and the lady who lived next door to her was actually a registered nurse and had children of her own and but these two people were very good friends, good neighbors, neighbors for years and the lady who witnessed it said hey, you shouldn't be doing that to these children.

You're leaving welts on their legs and who supposedly was this lady's friend said mind your own business or the person who was told to mind their own business went right on in and called the police.

Now whether or not that next door neighbor knew it was that person you called, I don't know.

>> But should that even be a concern?

I would say there's a line that's drawn between punishment and corporal punishment, OK?

>> And we're going to probably that's probably yeah.

>> Call call somebody call and call the police and the child and fact it just wasn't one she had two or three that I guess were unruly but and that's the right thing to do because of being a mandatory reporter.

So that's the duty of that individual to definitely it's not saying that somebody crossed the line or it's just saying this this crossed my line personally.

It crossed my line.

But but you know, we have to we do leave that up to the social justice system medical follow up to get more into the details .

>> But it just depends on the situation but corporal punishment so corporal punishment is the spanking or the the beating or the hitting?

>> Yeah.

Is that what that is a little bit more hard OK yeah.

>> And that used to be you know back in my day when I was growing we were spanked.

>> Is that allowed anymore?

You should never you should never leave a mark that's kind of like the key said well you know just tap tap on the rear end, straighten up your children.

I don't think that's anything bad.

Right.

But I I have seen in parks yeah.

Kids get a little out of hand they would get a weapon was oh what do you do what do you do.

>> Yeah so yeah it's hard it's hard to know what to do you know it's in everybody personally would react to that differently so yeah it's a difficult situation to be in.

>> Yeah it's almost a personal decision at that point.

I mean just something atap you know probably not a big deal but the leaving the marks and something you should report.

>> Well let's go back to the fact that we were talking about the mandatory reporter Hermandad reporter.

>> Let's instill that once again to our viewers that everybody is responsible.

One hundred percent of Indiana citizens if you witnessed something it is your due diligence.

Your duty is to get a hold of someone to report it so they should report it directly to DCS which is one eight hundred eight hundred five five five six.

OK, and if we can show that screen one more time, if the folks in our production control area could pop that screen up again during there we go in the conversation now these are several different sources here ,Emily , that you wanted to bring along and share with us that can actually help.

Would you go through those and let us know?

And we we already know about Skene, a wonderful organization and these are all not for profit so we can talk about and shot sugar shots.

>> So a lot of these children we're trying to fill that medical gap and so a lot of them have either have never been to the doctor maybe just once they're behind on their vaccines.

So getting them vaccinated super shots available for that and they offer free or very, very low cost vaccines for these children.

>> OK, so get them keep them healthy.

Yes.

And then healthier moms and babies and then there's also healthier families.

It's two different organizations but those are can get involved with families and moms when they're pregnant.

Just make sure that they're connected to appropriate really.

>> I see what you notice that you included rather what is the sexual assault Treatment Center.

Yeah.

So that be a valuable source and sexual abuse uh the neighborhood health clinic I can see where they could be very helpful.

Yeah.

So all of those services there that we're showing you I mean that's at least a place to start and even get some help very.

>> There are numerous resources in this county numerous and the resources are out there.

It's just a matter of being able to find them and connecting to them and connecting people to them because it's always difficult.

You know, whenever you even just leave the doctor's office, the making more appointments, it's just too much trouble, you know?

>> So as much as we can help make the connections and make the appointments and set things up, the easier it is for families.

>> Well, and we of course we've been talking mainly about the children but it's also the adults that yes, they need help as well.

So a lot of those resources that you the resources that you showed us I'm sure can direct sometimes even more so for the well we have about a minute and a half or so.

>> I'd love to hear some takeaways for our viewers tonight just to kind of a lump sum and summarize what we've talked about because it is child abuse Prevention Month like to start with you OK, well again because it is that month you'll see pendulum pinwheels around town and Skene has been putting them around so that everybody is aware and I've seen them and I'm so glad we had this discussion because I was wondering what I I was they must have gotten those unsalable, you know, because it's spring.

>> It's a wonderful decoration that signifies you know, let's let's try to prevent child abuse because it should never happen.

Not one time.

No, it's one hundred percent preventable.

Absolutely.

And that's what that pinwheel is saying.

>> It should never happen.

And so that's definitely a take away.

It doesn't matter how bad a child behaves, they don't deserve to be abused or neglected.

>> Right.

Emily ?

I think I mean going back I know we keep saying and saying it but the mandated reporter it's not our job like Lisa said to investigate it or accuse people.

But if you have any suspicion or red flag I mean it is our duty to protect these children.

>> So just call that hotline and there's they're not comfortable to tell someone else.

>> Yes.

Well, do they remember is that child's benefit and.

>> Well, exactly because they can't protect themselves.

No, they can't and that's all the reason why we have to watch over them like guardian angels.

Yes.

OK, well we truly appreciate this discussion.

We had some nice calls and some good calls.

Very informative.

Emily Park, child maltreatment nurse navigator, thank you for your help tonight and what you do for the community.

>> Thank you.

And of course we have Lisa Hollister, a nurse and director one of the hospital's trauma services in the area.

We thank you for being here.

Thank you all right.

>> And we thank you for watching and we will see you next Tuesday night.

Until then, good night and good