[music playing] Kelly: Something seems a bit off with your horse, they're having difficulty getting up and down, or experiencing discomfort when saddled.

Your horse could be in need of chiropractic treatment.

We take this episode on the road to Farmer City to speak with Dr. Catherine Foreman-Hesterberg.

She's part of the rehabilitation services at the U of I Veterinary Teaching Hospital and certified in animal chiropractic.

Stay with us for this episode of The Paw Report.

[music playing] Katelyn: Fetchers Pet Supply on the north side of the Charleston square.

Serving the EIU community since 1991.

Fetchers welcomes all pets on a leash.

Is open seven days a week and offers made in the USA food.

Pets supplies for dogs, cats, reptiles, and fish.

Fetchers Pets Supply in Charleston.

Rameen: The Paw Report on WEIU is supported by Rural King, America's farm and home store, livestock feed, farm equipment, pet supplies and more.

You can find your store and more information regarding Rural King at ruralking.com.

Rob: Dave's Decorating Center is a proud supporter of the Paw Report on WEIU.

Dave's Decorating Center features the Mohawk Smartstrand Silk Forever Clean carpet.

Dave's Decorating Center, authorized Mohawk color center in Charleston.

Kelly: Thank you for joining us for this episode of The Paw Report.

As you can see, we're not in the studio today.

We have taken the production on the road to Midwest Equine here in Farmer City, Illinois.

So, thank you for joining us.

And we're joined by a special guest, first timer, to the show today, Dr. Catherine Foreman.

So, thank you so much for joining us, and inviting us to your office on a very busy day at the end of July when it's very hot outside.

So, thank you again.

Catherine: Well, thanks for having me.

Thanks for having me.

Kelly: You are very welcome.

I always put our first time guests on the spot, we like to know a little bit about you, and doing my homework, I discovered that you have a love of horses like none other, and you've been riding horses since you were very little.

Catherine: I have.

Yep.

My mom's a horse trainer and my dad's an equine veterinarian as well, so I was going to work with horses one way or another at some point in my life.

But yeah, I've probably been on a horse since before I could walk.

My pictures have a... My pictures.

My parents have a picture of me with a bottle in my mouth sitting on a pony.

Kelly: Aww.

Catherine: So, I've been competing since I was a young kid.

I've competed internationally.

And then, I decided I really wanted to do what my dad did with his career.

He saved my sick ponies when I was little, and I wanted to grow up and do that too.

So, I attended Augustana College in the Quad Cities for undergrad and majored in biology.

And then, I attended the University of Illinois for veterinary school.

And then, I did a one year internship in Aiken, South Carolina at a busy Equine Hospital down there, and got a lot of extra training, and worked on a lot of sport horses while down there.

And then, I've worked in Central Indiana for a few years, and I've been back here in Central Illinois area, which is home for me for about two years.

Kelly: Your specialization is equine chiropractic among other things, so let's talk about, what is equine chiropractic?

It's not something that is... At least not something that I hear of a lot.

Catherine: Sure.

The best really basic scientific definition is that it's high velocity low force adjustments through the joints of animals, specifically horses.

I work on horses as well as livestock, and dogs, and cats, but typically, my typical patient is a performance horse.

So, it's essentially ensuring that every joint within the spinal canal and within their limbs have appropriate mobility thru it.

Kelly: Are you one of a few around here?

I mean, as I mentioned, we're at Midwest Equine, maybe back up a little bit, tell us about the practice here.

It is affiliated with the University of Illinois.

Catherine: Correct.

Correct.

Yep.

So, we're basically a satellite clinic of the University of Illinois.

They have the main teaching hospital there in South Urbana.

So, they see all sorts of species there.

They have equine specific medicines and surgery service, and then we're the primary care service.

So, we do primary care work, as well as lameness work.

And then, me specifically, I work on horses with lameness issues, and chiropractic is usually tied into lameness issues.

Kelly: How is the equine chiropractic care used?

And the lot is full here of people, so obviously, it's used quite a bit, but specifically.

Catherine: Yep.

So, my typical patient is a performance animal, meaning that they're a horse that competes for a living, they're a barrel horse, they're a jumping horse, they're a race horse, that type of thing, where they're exerting their body.

Just like we have human athletes, they're athletes as well, so we treat them appropriately just how human athletes are treated.

We treat them for any soreness issues, or anything like that, and chiropractic is a very good tool in our tool box to be able to keep performance horses at the top of their level.

Kelly: As I mentioned, you're specialized, is that who should be treating these types of horses?

Catherine: Yes.

Kelly: I mean, is it a specialization that people have to go through?

Catherine: Yes, it is.

So, within the State of Illinois, the actual Veterinary Practice Act states that only veterinarians and human chiropractors, so DVMs, or DCs that have been through an animal chiropractic certification program legally are allowed to work on horses and do chiropractic adjustments on horses and other species.

Kelly: And where did you say you did that?

I know you mentioned that briefly at the beginning.

Catherine: Yep.

So, I did that in a school called Options For Animals in Wellsville, Kansas.

So, it's about a five month long program, and I completed that about three years ago.

Kelly: If I was a horse owner, how would I know if my horse is in pain, or would benefit from chiropractic services?

Catherine: Sure.

So, the number one complaint I get is just decreased performance, meaning they're not running as fast as they used to, they don't feel comfortable under tack anymore, they're having some sort of abnormal behavior under tack, and horse owners know their horse is the best, versus I come, and I'm very objective and can assess their physical condition, but behavior is usually a big key for a lot of horse owners, that they're not turning around the barrel appropriately, they're stopping at the jumps, or they're not jumping as well, or they're not running as fast anymore, and sometimes, chiropractic work is tied into there being a primary limb issue, and then secondarily, their back takes the brunt of the primary limb soreness.

Kelly: What other performance issues?

Is it getting up, getting down?

Is it maybe the way that they walk, maybe they're carrying theirselves a little bit longer, or a little odd?

I know that there's a laundry list of different things that maybe you look for too.

Catherine: Yeah.

So, when I watch an animal move, I watch them usually at the walk, and then at the trot in a straight line and on a circle.

So, yes, it's definitely how they carry themselves, how they move each leg individually, whether there is an asymmetry in their pelvis, or in their shoulders, or their neck, and then also if there's an actual limp in their gait.

If there's a limp in their gait, then we approach it more from the lameness aspect, and then chiropractic can help secondarily.

But primary chiropractic is that there is some sort of asymmetry in their spine, neck, or pelvis.

And in the performance horses, like I said, it's usually a behavioral thing, that the owner noticed under tack first.

But I have a lot of geriatric horses that I work on as well that just kind of...

In day-to-day life, they're maybe getting up from laying down a little bit slower, or they're moving around the pasture a little bit slower, and the owner notices, and chiropractic can benefit that too.

Kelly: Can it be as subtle as...

I'm not a horse owner, I've been a dog owner.

Can it be something as subtle as diet, not eating, not drinking, maybe losing a little bit of weight?

I mean, could that all play into a problem?

Catherine: It can.

In my honest opinion, usually, chiropractic care is beneficial in those situations, but there's typically a primary issue leading into those types of signs.

It's usually not a primary chiropractic issue, chiropractic can help secondarily.

There's typically another issue going on.

But chiropractic can help in any way, form, shape, size of any animal at any time in their life, but a lot of times, there's a primary issue that needs treated appropriately first, and then chiropractic can be a secondary care.

Kelly: I wonder if you come across people in your discussions... Did they even know that there was such a service that they could provide to their animal?

Do you get that a lot like, "Well, I thought that was only for humans?"

Catherine: Yeah.

No.

Some friends and family definitely when they learned what I was doing, they kind of looked at me a little funny when I first said- Kelly: Yeah, exactly.

Catherine: ...

I was getting certified in animal chiropractic, but it's just like humans, again, especially the performance animals.

We have human athletes, we have horse athletes, we have dog athletes, we have even livestock.

I do adjust a lot of 4-H animals that go to the state fair.

At this time of year, I end up adjusting a lot of pigs and cows before they go to the state fair, because they walk in the ring and they stand more comfortably and appropriately in front of the judge.

Kelly: How can you tell maybe a more subtle problem, like if there's just a subtle maybe back problem that the animal is having?

Catherine: From an owner's perspective?

Kelly: Yes.

Catherine: Would be... Again, and I guess in my experience, it's mostly a performance issue, but it can be subtle things as far as just them more walking around the pasture if you notice some sort of hitch in their giddy-up, I guess to say, in layman's terms- Kelly: There's a song about that.

Catherine: ... that they're just walking a little slower, or maybe unevenly, or they're not coming up...

Especially if they live out in the pasture, and you bring them in during the hot day, that they're not coming up to the gait as quick as they normally do, very subtle things like that.

And like I said, animal owners know their animals much better than I do, so if it's something really subtle like that, I definitely take that to heart and do my best to try to understand what the owner is seeing at home, and how I can use that information into my exam.

Kelly: Absolutely.

As I mentioned, this will air in the fall, we're filming the end of July.

I'm just seeing probably half a dozen horses here ready to see you.

What can the horse owners expect at a chiropractic appointment?

Maybe take us through the process from start to finish.

You get the call, appointments are made, what can you expect?

Catherine: Yeah.

So usually, I want to see them at least walk back and forth.

I watch them walk from the side, I watch them walk from behind just to see how their pelvis is moving, how they move their neck and their back just as they move.

And then, I do a static exam where I kind of just run my hands down their neck, down their back, around their pelvis, feel down their legs.

I look for anything really overt, like swelling, heat, palpable muscle soreness, or anything like that.

And then, I usually start my adjustment from the pelvis and work my way towards the head, and actually, for horses specifically, I have a big foam block that's about yay big that I turn on inside, and I stand on.

So, I actually adjust from on top of the horse, and work from the pelvis up to the withers, which is where the neck meets the chest.

I get off the block, I adjust the neck from side to side, and then I adjust their limbs.

Kelly: I would have to believe... And maybe you can talk more about adjustments in detail, you've got to be very strong and very...

I mean, this is an animal that's 10 times your size, if not more, how do you give it enough pressure, you know exactly what to do to relieve that animal, to help that animal?

Catherine: Sure.

So, that's why I hone in on that only veterinarians and human chiropractors that have gone through a certification course should be the ones adjusting animals, because it's a very specific technique, it's about... You have to know their anatomy very, very well.

I'm not just pressing on random areas when I do it, I'm finding the correct joint, and then applying pressure to that joint.

And like I said earlier, it's a high velocity, low force, so I'm actually not pushing that hard, but I'm pushing very quickly to make a very quick adjustment, and you have to do it over the specific area, otherwise you're just kind of pushing on their back and not really solving any issue necessarily.

So, it is definitely a very learned, very technical skill.

Kelly: Do you notice that there are certain parts of the horse that usually get them... Or you see the most problems?

Is it spine?

Is it legs?

Is it back?

Is it, I mean, limbs?

What area do you normally see?

I guess it would depend on the performance of the animal that you're seeing.

Catherine: Yeah.

So, it does depend on what they do for a living, and then depend on their previous history too, like do they have arthritis in other joints?

So, I have to be careful about adjusting some areas that may have some arthritis, just because it'll be a little more painful, or a little stiffer for me to adjust those areas.

But typically, most often, I see areas in their lumbar spine, so the section right in front of their pelvis and the base of their neck.

Their caudal cervical vertebrae is where they typically need the most adjustments, and that's just from what we call activities of daily living.

It's just like us, that most people that go to a human chiropractor need their neck and their lower back adjusted.

Kelly: I know you said you were born and raised around horses, do you ever get nervous, a little tense, maybe if it's an animal you've never met before?

Are you a little nervous that they might do one of these, or lift up one of those back legs and get you?

Does that ever go through your mind when going through an exam?

Catherine: It does.

And I like to think I have a pretty good... What you would call a horse sense, being around horses most of my life, that I can kind of tell when a horse is anxious, or nervous, and maybe a little bit more reactive to what I'm trying to do.

In those situations, I just take my time, try to get the horse to feel like they can trust me, that they understand I'm not going to hurt them, I'm trying to help them.

But I definitely have had occasions where I've actually been standing on the block and had the horse kick the block out from underneath me, and I was fine, thankfully, I've never been injured.

So, I try really hard to never actually have to sedate an animal for an adjustment because it kind of takes away their natural reflex to push back on me.

And if they're sedated, they don't resist my pressure, and you can end up injuring them if they don't have their natural ability to do that.

So, I try really hard to avoid sedation in animals at all cost, but there are some situations where the horse is borderline dangerous to be around from being so anxious and nervous, but we really need to get it adjusted, so I'll give it just a little bit of sedation, and then get it adjusted safely.

Because my safety is more important to me.

Kelly: Absolutely.

Catherine: And also the safety of my handler holding the horse.

So, there are situations where I definitely have been a little more nervous to get the animal adjusted, but if I take my time, or give it a little bit of sedative, then we can get it done.

Kelly: I've been to a human chiropractor, so I know the repetition and what it takes, and sometimes, you go a few weeks, sometimes you go a few months, sometimes it's a lifetime commitment.

Is it different for horses, or cattle, or other animals that you treat?

Catherine: So, most of the performance horses I see, I like to see every four to six weeks during the show season, which is typically March to November.

Other horses that are more daily living, geriatric type of animals, I see every other month, or every three months.

And I do definitely have some people that call...

This is kind of funny, around Christmas time, and they say, "I want to give my horse a chiropractic adjustment as a Christmas present."

[crosstalk 00:14:44].

Kelly: Perfect gift.

Catherine: Not going to hurt anything by any means, but to stay on a regular schedule is definitely more beneficial.

Kelly: And I know that in speaking with you, most of your clients are horses, but have you found that it's been very successful in other species?

I mean, can a cat, can a dog?

I mean- Catherine: Yep.

Kelly: I mean, can anybody that has a... Or any species with the spine, I guess, it can help.

Catherine: Yeah.

So, any species that has a spine can be adjusted.

I've not adjusted anything kind of out of the blue.

One of my professors at the certification program said some of the weirdest animals she's done are an iguana, and a ferret, and a rabbit, because they were actually all show animals that were going to the 4-H fair.

But there are plenty of people who just...

If you love your animal, and you notice something abnormal about it moving around its habitat, say it's an iguana moving around in the house and it's acting abnormal, it could probably benefit from a chiropractic adjustment.

So, outside of horses, I mostly work with cattle and pigs, and then some dogs here and there.

I do actually provide a service through the small animal rehab service at the teaching college, at the University of Illinois Veterinary Teaching College in Urbana, where I work through the small animal rehab service for some of the orthopedic patients.

So, say they've had an orthopedic surgery like a knee repair, or something like that, they come in for rehab and I adjust them while they're there.

Kelly: Tell me about your first patient.

I'd have to believe that the whole time I'm talking to you about this and all these horses that are around us, that had... And I want to ask you about some other clients and stories, but I have to believe that that was maybe your most memorable.

Catherine: So, honestly, my first patient was my own horse.

Kelly: Wow.

Okay.

Catherine: He was kind of my practice dummy, honestly, through the certification program.

He and my dog both were very beneficial while I was going through the program.

They were very patient and understanding while I was trying to figure out how everything moved appropriately, and that I was in the right spot and everything.

So, my horse...

I grew up in the hunter jumper world, so he was a jumper horse.

So, he definitely benefited from it just from...

The first time I did a full adjustment on him, from tail to head, and did all four legs, I got on him the next day, and he felt like a brand new horse.

He was just quiet and fluid in his movement, and I could just tell as his rider and his owner that that definitely benefited him.

Kelly: Do you still have horses today?

Catherine: I do.

Yep.

So, I no longer have that horse, unfortunately.

He was put to sleep last spring from a really bad colic episode.

But I have another horse I purchased last summer, and so I've taken him to several shows this spring and summer already, and I adjust him usually every six weeks.

Kelly: So, along with your busy schedule here at Midwest Equine, you still find time to show?

Catherine: I do the best that I can.

Kelly: How do you work that in?

Catherine: I have a very supportive husband and a very supportive set of parents, and my mom is my trainer.

So, we just kind of fit it in when we can.

Kelly: So, you mentioned with your own horse... Kind of your first patient, doing some therapy work on your horse, and you personally saw the benefits, what if somebody out there is on the fence, they're just not sure, they're not sure if this is something that maybe they should invest in, or look into, thinking back to some of your other clients, other benefits that you have personally witnessed with those that you've treated?

Catherine: So, in that case, kind of put performance horses to the side, because we definitely treat the musculoskeletal system when I do an adjustment, and help them to perform to the best of their ability.

But take the geriatric Corso dog, those are the best example for a question like that, is that just kind of their daily life is a little bit harder now, they're older, they have arthritis in multiple joints.

It's harder for them to get up and down from the couch, for a dog, they're not moving around their pastures comfortably anymore, definitely from a mobility aspect, but then also just kind of from a behavior personality aspect, that I have had some people say that in their geriatric dog specifically, that they just have a little more spunk, they're more active, they want to play ball.

It's not like you throw the ball twice and they're done, now they can do 10, 15 times.

They want to go out on walks, they're just more active and seem more full of life if they're on a regular adjustment schedule.

Kelly: So, hearing you, it sounds like it might give them a little bit more longevity.

Catherine: It definitely...

I don't want to guarantee that necessarily- Kelly: Sure.

Catherine: But I have personally seen geriatric animals have a better quality of life for maybe a little bit longer.

Kelly: You've talked a lot about performance animals, but I'm also hearing you correctly that your therapy is not exclusive to them.

So, if somebody out there just has a horse that they love like a dog, I mean, they also could potentially qualify for this type of therapy.

Catherine: Definitely.

Yeah.

Like I said, even if they're just a weekend warrior trail horse that you take him on a trail ride every once a month, or every other month, or they just hang out in your backyard, it's not a big deal, every animal can benefit from chiropractic adjustments.

Kelly: Now, if I have a horse, and I'm thinking that they need some attention, some adjustment, take us through the process of that.

Do you have to first start at the U of I?

Do you call your office?

Do you go to whoever vets your horses to get the referral?

And I'm not asking for a specific dollar amount, but is it an expensive treatment for people to go through?

Catherine: Sure.

So, for horses specifically, they'd schedule through our office here in Farmer City, and either the horses come here physically to the clinic as an outpatient appoint, or I do go to the farm and do adjustments as well, as long as there is a safe, flat area that I can stand on the block and adjust the horse safely.

And it's, to me, very reasonably priced in comparison to some other performance treatments, performance issues that we can treat.

It's very reasonably priced.

If you stay on a regular schedule, that does add up over time.

Every once in a while isn't as expensive.

So, to me, the benefit outweighs the cost, because I've seen it work in my own animals, but that is completely at the owner's discretion too.

Kelly: Right.

You mentioned, or I asked you earlier in this interview about...

I've just not heard a lot about equine chiropractor, or...

I guess that's right, chiropractors.

In your studies, in being in this world, are there a lot of you out there?

Catherine: There are more than you probably think.

In this area specifically, there are... Central Illinois area, there are two veterinarian certified and chiropractic.

There's one veterinarian that's from near St. Louis that travels the Midwest and does a very, very good job.

And then, there are what we would call a lay-chiropractor.

So, they're not a veterinarian, they're not a human chiropractor, but they claim to perform animal chiropractic.

And I don't think they ever actually injure the animal by any means, and again, according to the State of Illinois law, it needs to be a veterinarian, or a human chiropractor.

Kelly: When you see clients you've worked with them and you've helped them, but you also know that there may be other problems associated with their horse, is that something you work with the owners with as far as maybe referring them to a step beyond your treatment?

Catherine: Yeah.

So, the benefit to me being a veterinarian and doing lameness work, and performance work, as well as chiropractic, is that a lot of times, there's a primary limb issue, so they have arthritis in their knee, or in their ankle, or in their hocks, and if I can treat that... And I can, I can treat that either here at the clinic or on the farm, and then treat their back as a secondary issue.

I can do that all myself.

There's also definitely instances where I come in as a second treatment option, that they've seen their primary veterinarian and had their hocks injected with corticosteroids.

Just like how human orthopedists will inject your shoulder with steroids, we can do the same thing for horses, that we can put steroids into their joints to help their joints feel a little more comfortable.

So, that's helped, but not completely made everything go away, then I can come in as a second set of eyes and do an adjustment on them to help them feel their best.

Kelly: We got about a minute or two left, it's hard to believe.

You mentioned your stories... And this is always the fun part of the interview.

You mentioned your first patients being your own horse, but I would have to believe in the years that you've been doing this, there's been some other cases that in dinner conversations, you talk about, and I'm interested to hear those stories on some memorable patients.

Catherine: So, one that really sticks out in my mind is a Mammoth mule.

So, by that, I mean a draft cross mule.

So, he stands about probably 18 hands, or 18 [inaudible 00:23:47], meaning his wither is where his neck meets, his chest is above my head standing still.

Kelly: Wow.

Catherine: And he's just used as a trail horse, but he is the sweetest mule in the world, he's got the biggest personality.

His head is about longer than my torso, and he has really, really bad neck arthritis, very severe neck arthritis.

And when he was purchased, he was actually purchased by a colleague of mine who's also a friend, and so she asked me to come out and kind of evaluate him for that.

We took some X-rays of his neck, and he's been on a regular chiropractic schedule.

So, he has been seen every four weeks for probably about 13 or 14 months now, and he has significant more mobility in his neck.

He's so much more comfortable under tack.

He moves around the pasture comfortably.

He gallops up to the gate, which he never did when she first bought him.

So, he definitely stands out in my mind from his personality, and just his quality of life, and his comfort improvement over the past year.

It's pretty impressive.

Kelly: Excellent.

And it puts a smile on your face.

Well, our discussion has come to an end and probably a good thing, because you've got a parking lot full of horses here that need your assistance.

So, we so appreciate, Dr. Foreman, you giving us a few minutes to talk about your craft and your specialty, and thank you for doing what you do because it's definitely needed out there by a lot of people.

So, thank you for spending a few moments with The Paw Report.

Catherine: Yep.

You're welcome.

Thank you for having me.

Kelly: And until then, we'll join you next time.

But for now, we're on the road at Farmer City here at Midwest Equine.

Thanks for joining us.

Rob: Dave's Decorating Center is a proud supporter of the Paw Report on WEIU.

Dave's Decorating Center features the Mohawk Smartstrand Silk Forever Clean carpet.

Dave's Decorating Center, authorized Mohawk color center in Charleston.

Rameen: The Paw Report on WEIU is supported by Rural King, America's farm and home store, livestock feed, farm equipment, pet supplies and more.

You can find your store and more information regarding Rural King at ruralking.com.

Katelyn: Fetchers Pet Supply on the north side of the Charleston square.

Serving the EIU community since 1991.

Fetchers welcomes all pets on a leash.

Is open seven days a week and offers made in the USA food.

Pets supplies for dogs, cats, reptiles, and fish.

Fetchers Pets Supply in Charleston.

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