Making It Grow is brought to you in part by The South Carolina Department of Agriculture.

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♪ opening music ♪ ♪ Well, good evening, and welcome to Making It Grow.

We're so glad you can join us tonight.

I'm Amanda McNulty, a Clemson Extension agent and our show is a collaboration between S.C.E.T.V.

and Clemson University.

And Terasa Lott is by daytime, the master gardener coordinator, and I think y'all finally had something big happen.

<Terasa> We did.

Our statewide conference and it's always something to look forward to, but also a little sense of relief when it's over.

<Amanda> Yeah, kind of like having a baby.

[ laughs ] <Terasa>I wouldn't quite know about that.

[ laughs ] <Amanda> Well, anyway, thanks for being here and for all the things that you do for us.

>> My pleasure.

I really do appreciate it.

Vicky Bertagnolli, we've been missing you and glad you're here with us tonight.

You're down in Aiken as the horticulture agent, and actually you studied Entomology though, and that's always fun, because you really get excited and sometimes, do you put up a bug of the week or something or the week sometime?

>> I put up a "What is it?"

Wednesday.

It's kind of one of those things where I get client pictures or I take it myself, and I'll answer that with a graphic, and then there's a little write up that's housed on H.G.I.C.

as a blog.

<Amanda> Okay, wonderful.

So people can go to H.G.I.C.

and find it there.

And does Terasa get to put it on our page as well?

<Vicky> I put it up on our page.

<Amanda> Okay, that's right.

You know how to do all that stuff.

Well, that's really fun.

"What is it?"

Wednesday.

>> "What is it?"

Wednesday?

<Amanda> Okay.

Alrighty.

And John Nelson was my professor <John> For one semester.

>> Sadly.

I tried to get in once before that, and you wouldn't let me.

But, [ laughs ] and if you were teaching now, I'd still go but I still consider you my professor because you take me out and teach me things still.

>> Well, it's my, I'm delighted to be able to do that, still.

<Amanda> And you haven't walked me through a pond lately.

We'll have to do that one day.

>> All right.

<Amanda> with our shoes on because now there's so much glass and stuff in ponds.

We'll have to keep our shoes on this time.

At any rate, thank you so much for coming.

>> You're very welcome.

>> Teresa, I think we often start with a lovely collection of pictures of people's yards.

<Terasa> We do.

We call that The Gardens of the Week and it's our opportunity to showcase what you're doing in your yards and gardens around the state and sometimes we venture outside the borders of South Carolina.

Let's take a look.

First we'll start with Clay and Cindy Williams, who were so fortunate to capture a monarch on tithonia.

I'm always jealous when people are able to photograph monarchs.

They have not come to my yard.

Ann Nolte shared some beautiful arrangements.

She's got some older friends in town that can't garden anymore, so she brings them a little bit of extra cheer in the form of flower arrangements.

Maryanne Porter had a neat idea by taking a blue pumpkin and inserting some dried hydrangea flowers and hyacinth vine.

I think she said she was going to collect the seeds and see if she could grow some new plants next year.

Linda Joyce was happy to tell us that she has been successful in growing collards in containers.

And finally we'll wrap up with some, I like to call it autumn sunshine.

Arlene Lyons Weeks sent us her Helianthus that are starting to flower.

She said she normally prunes them back but this year a resident bunny did it for her and wasn't that nice?

< laughs > <Amanda> That little bunny rabbit saved her that chore.

<Terasa> That's right.

We usually think of them I suppose as being a pest but she was kind of happy about it.

<Amanda> It's kind of nice to hear it.

Well usually Teresa you get questions people send them to you and Vicky you get a lot that and y'all compile them.

And Terasa, you usually try to put them in some sort of order.

So, let's start going down the pile.

<Terasa> We'll give it a try.

We'll start with Carol in Bluffton who shared a photograph.

This caterpillar was on my driveway today.

No luck identifying it in books or online.

Any idea what it is?

I let it go its merry way.

So, hopefully it's not a bad guy.

>> Well, and even the bad guys, the ones that sting us or that eat things that we don't want them to, maybe a bird will eat them, and that's a good thing about all caterpillars, I think.

Vicky, do you have any idea what this one is?

<Vicky> Yeah, so whenever you look at this caterpillar, you really don't know, 'cause there's little spikes on it.

So you don't know if it's going to be a stinging caterpillar, but it's not a stinging caterpillar.

It's a pink striped oak worm.

<Amanda> Oh.

<Vicky> and it becomes the pink striped oak worm moth.

And the moth is this really pretty thing.

The females are kind of like an orange with a pale purple border on them, but the males are the color saturation for them is absolutely gorgeous.

It's like this, this really vibrant rust color on their wings.

It's really, really attractive and...both the males and the females have a little white spot on the fore wing.

But this caterpillar's pretty easy to ID because it's going to be kind of greenish with...pink stripes on it, and then you'll see the little black spikes that aren't actually spikes.

And they got two longer ones up on the front of it.

Super easy to ID and you're going to find it, like in deciduous woodlands in the suburbs.

You're going to see them in the - if it's got like a treeline cityscape.

They're not uncommon.

They're pretty neat.

And I really like the adults.

The moth is absolutely gorgeous.

Most of your moths are going to be, they're going to be out in the day and the night.

A lot of times what we'll do is we'll see the moth during the day, sitting.

>> Oh, okay.

>> That's when you'll see it.

>> Okay, Okay.

But it's going to be active at night.

<Amanda> Okay, Well, that's a cool thing to have had in your driveway.

Thank you, Vicky.

I appreciate that.

John, you've got something that makes me realize that I need my apple box perhaps tonight.

>> Yes.

>> That's what they have me stand on when I'm particularly short.

>> I have brought something from my backyard, which I think is pretty darn impressive, if I can get it over here.

>> Mercy >> I want everybody to see this.

<Amanda> Good Lord.

<laughs> >> I've been growing this in my yard for about four years now, <Amanda> Vicky, can you help it hold still down there?

<John> And this is the tallest.

There are several stems coming out of the same clump.

<Amanda> Oh, they are?

>> Yeah.

And you see that it's got these wonderful leaves that are basically, some are alter opposite or whorl even on the stem, very smooth stem.

And then the flowers are just amazing.

<Amanda> Why don't we bring it down and you can describe the flower and I will hold this part of it.

<John> Just like holding an Anaconda.

So the flowers are wonderful and you see that a single flower is on a long, very tough stalk.

And it consists of...a calyx down here, and then a long corolla.

So these are all the petals fused together and this is almost certainly pollinated by long tail, long tail, long tongued moths or hummingbirds.

And then after the corolla falls off, the fruit that develops will be bright, gun metal blue and red at the same time.

<Amanda> And so it makes a pretty dramatic inflorescence.

>> very, yes.

The flowers are nice and so are the fruits.

<Amanda> Uh huh.

>> Now, this is not a native plant, but it is grown as an accent plant sometimes.

<Amanda> And what is it?

>> It's called Siphon, plant.

<Amanda> Siphon?

>> Siphon, or skyrocket.

<Amanda> Skyrocket.

>> It's in the mint family.

<Amanda> And does it have a fancy name?

<John> Of course it does.

It's called Clerodendrum indicum.

<Amanda> And I'm just looking in the stem to see if it's solid or if its got a - no!

Oh my lord.

Look at that!

<John> Look at that.

>> That's a peep hole.

Look.

I can see.

<John> I can make a blow gun out of it.

<Amanda> You could.

Did you know it was hollow like that?

<John> I didn't know it was hollow, but I'm glad that it's surprising you.

<Amanda> That is so much fun.

Pass that down.

<John> Let me look through it.

<Amanda> Yeah.

And it's a tough old stem.

It was really hard to cut even with my, not very sharp, gosh.

So, do you get a lot of seedlings?

<John> No.

I don't know that it's ever gonna make seedlings.

<Amanda> Oh, it may not be the right temperature.

It may be a more tropical.

>> Yeah, it's definitely a tropical plant.

<Amanda> Boy that is some kind of plant.

>> Yeah.

Okay.

<Amanda> Well.

That was quite a surprise.

<John> Clerodendrum.

<Amanda> Clerodendrum.

<Amanda> Okay.

Alrighty.

Well, I don't know how we're gonna top that.

[ laughs ] Vicky let's try.

I mean, Terasa, let's try.

<Terasa> Okay, well we're keeping with the color green.

This is a relatively short question.

Sarah in Aiken submitted a photograph with the only text was, "Frog identification by chance?"

[laughs ] <Amanda> Well, we're gonna have to start having somebody from D.N.R.

on because we've had people come in and talk about turtles laying eggs in the Argentine, whatever.

<Vicky> Tegus, yes.

>> Vicky, do you possibly do frogs as well?

<Vicky> So, y'all may or may not know that I got an undergraduate degree in wildlife sciences.

<Amanda> No.

>> So, unfortunately, I did get to take herpetology, so.

But, Terasa and I actually looked at this together and and I thought it was something and I would asked her what it was.

And we kind of...came to an agreement that this is what we think it is.

We think it's Southern Leopard Frog and it looks really similar to a Pickerel frog, but we kind of eliminated that it wasn't Pickerel frog from the location of where Sarah is.

Sarah's in Aiken County and so we decided this looks like Southern Leopard Frog.

And they're not very big, two, to maybe three and a half inches.

So it's not a very large frog.

<Amanda> It's a frog, not a toad.

<Vicky> It's a frog, not a toad.

One of the things that's kind of neat about this is it's a relatively, everybody thinks that frogs are always in the water.

And they're not.

There's a lot of them that are... relatively terrestrial, and they can get pretty far from the water, and Leopard Frog is one of them.

<Amanda> Okay.

<Vicky> it's not uncommon to see them, you know, in the woods, and you're like, where's the water?

And Sarah and I had done a night burn in early 2021, and we happen to see one.

We were in the middle of the woods and found one.

And so they're active both day and night.

But it's a neat little frog that you'll encounter relatively often.

<Amanda> You know, Tony sometimes tells me that among his green growers, if they get a lot of rain, they'll have an explosion of frogs in the collard green field.

>> Absolutely.

>> Now that's the craziest thing I've ever heard of.

<Vicky> Well, you have to think about the fact that they're, you know, they're going to lay where it's kind of moist and damp, but there are some places that just don't drain real well.

And you're going to have population explosions, if there's...a puddle of water, and the water will stay there long enough, you'll have frogs and tadpoles.

>> Well, Tony says it is not a pest that they like to have.

>> Right.

<Amanda> Yeah, that nobody wants to open, bring home their greens and have some extra protein in it.

<Vicky> Sometimes it's a surprise and you don't want things jumping at you.

<Amanda> You certainly don't.

<Terasa> Vicky and I we're using the Savannah River Ecology Labs website, they're herpetology program.

It is like the go to resource if you have questions about frogs, snakes, toads, you know, reptiles and amphibians.

<Vicky> ...the frogs have really cool pages because a lot of their frog pages have a call on it.

So even if you can't see the frogs and you know, you've got a nice night and you can hear stuff and you can go click through all the different species they have and a lot of them have calls so that you can ID the frog by the call just like you do with birds.

<Amanda> Yeah, with owls and things.

[ hoo, hoo, hoo, hoo ] >> Yep.

<Vicky> 'who cooks for you?'

>> Yeah, that is really fun.

So just go to the Savannah River Ecology Lab?

<Vicky> Yep.

It's the University of Georgia's Savannah River Ecology Lab.

So if you have trouble, you can put in frog, S-R-E-L for Savannah River Ecology Lab and the page will pop up.

<Amanda> I wanna go home and listen to frogs.

Yeah, alrighty.

Okay, so Ms. Terasa, what else do we have?

<Terasa> Well, let's see if we can stump Dr. John with some identification.

Kim Mitchell in Oconee County said, "While in the mountains I came across these two plants and I'm having trouble identifying them.

The flowers on the vine caught my eye along with the ground cover."

So these were found in two plants, two different locations in the mountains.

"What are they?"

"I'd like to add them if they're not invasive."

So kudos to Kim for at least having that in her mind and realizing there are some things that we don't want to be spreading around.

>> Well, John, do you have any idea what these are?

>> I think I do.

They're pretty nice pictures.

Now, that vine looks to me like groundnut.

Groundnut is what we call it, and it makes little tubers under the ground.

And they're edible, actually.

<Amanda> Almost like a peanut... <John> Sort of like that.

<Amanda> And does it have a colorful flower?

<John> It's sort of pale purple and brown and pink.

It's kind of nice.

<Amanda> I bought one time at one of the flower shows and they said that they were very late to come out of dormancy, and I'm still waiting for it to come out of dormancy, but it's a native, if I'm not mistaken.

And has it got pretty widespread distribution?

How hard is it to grow if you get one that's not delayed?

<John> If you get this native one, I don't know.

I'm not a gardener, but it should be fairly easy.

<Amanda> You see it a good bit.

<John> They're fairly widespread in the southeast.

<Amanda> Okay, okay, and then, how about the other one?

<John> The other one, it's actually easier to recognize.

It's called Ground Cedar, and some people call it Running Pine.

And I don't know why they don't call it Running Cedar or Ground Pine, but it's got a wonderful scientific name: Diphasiastrum digitatum, and this is actually a relative of the club mosses.

So it's kind of not closely related ferns, but it's in that general group.

<Amanda> It has spores.

<John> It makes spores.

It doesn't make flowers or seeds.

And it has extensive underground stems.

And sometimes you see plenty of stems stolons running around.

That's why it's called Running Cedar.

<Amanda> Now, is it mainly in the upstate or towards the mountains or where would we find it?

<John> It's mostly mountains and piedmont, but it does get into portions of the floodplain, I mean, the coastal plain.

In fact, you can find it at Congaree National Park.

<Amanda> Okay.

>> For instance.

>> I just think it's one of the most beautiful things in the world.

And I guess maybe when I was taking my first botany course, with Dr. Harry at Clemson - that was when people still smoked cigarettes instead of other things and he had somebody who had a lighter flick the fruiting structures, and they have explosive spores.

<John> Yeah.

>> And they were collected, and I've been told, used by the earliest people in Asia, who made fireworks sometimes.

And I think you can go to Carolina Biological Supply and you can get some.

Now, that's pretty cool.

<John> And, of course, all of those millions of spores are igniting as soon as... <Amanda> Isn't that fun?

<John> Yeah, it's potentially dangerous too.

<Amanda> Well, we were very careful.

But one thing, Terasa, I think we should caution is that you're not supposed to collect from the wild.

And so please, all of y'all remember that, when you want to get a native plant, find a legitimate native plant nursery that you are well aware of that they collect with the permit, if allowed, and that they do the propagation themselves, because the native plants are having a hard enough time without people going and ripping them out of the wild.

And also, you need to do a little research to find out what the cultural conditions are, that it would need too.

Wouldn't you agree?

<Terasa> Yes, definitely great information.

And I'll just throw out the wonderful world of technology.

I was able to pull up a fact sheet from NC State, and as far as the groundnut, they do say that although it can be grown ornamentally, it does spread to form colonies.

So that just might be, you know, it's not invasive, because it's a native plant, but, you know, just might be a little unruly in your home landscape maybe.

<Vicky> We call it enthusiastic.

[laughter] <Terasa> Vigorous!

<Amanda> Well, I can use some vigorous things these days.

I have some bare spots, so I think I'm going to try it again.

Okay, alright.

And John, I stopped on the way in because I ride by a strip mall, a little small strip mall that has an area in front of it, that's a retention pond or stormwater pond, you know, to catch all the stuff that rolls off, and all this stuff was in it, and so I thought we could talk about what some of it was.

<John> Sure.

<Amanda> It's kind of funny in the middle of the city, we've got really, I guess, kind of a semi aquatic... <John> Well, it's an artificial wetland.

<Amanda> Okay.

<John> And whether it's artificial or natural, wetland loving plants would love it because of that, and you got all sorts of tangled things here.

[Amanda laughing] [John] The one that you're holding - There you go.

This thing.

Hold it real still.

<Amanda> It looks kind of like a dirty wet mop.

>> Yeah, sort of with cat hair on it or something.

But this is a little bit unusual in being a sedge.

And we all know that sedges have edges, but this one has a round stem.

<Amanda> Whew, can't trust anybody.

<John> No, you sure can't.

But it's got these nice leaves, alternate like they're supposed to be.

And then up here in the inflorescence will be thousands of tiny little flowers and they're all subtended by little fuzzy <Amanda> Yeah.

<John> crinkles.

<Amanda> I think it's handsome.

<John> It's sort of a mess, though, if you start doing that with it.

<Amanda> Well... <John> I guess I better stop.

<Amanda> Are those the seeds falling out or just the fluff?

<John> Yeah, the fluff and the seeds.

<Amanda> Oh, really?

>> So, they're all over the table now.

<Amanda> So they're tiny?

<John> Oh, very tiny.

<Amanda> Gosh!

And I see it on the sides of the road sometimes, I guess, because the roads have ditches too.

<John> Yeah, a lot of times, even in the dead of winter, you'll still see these things standing up, but usually by spring, they've kind of dried up and gone away.

<Amanda> Well, anyway, I think it's handsome.

And what do we call it?

>> We call it.

I think we call it wool rush because it looks wooly.

<Amanda> Yeah, and what's the name if we were being particular?

<John> Oh, if we were being a botanist, we'd have to say Scirpus cyperinus.

<Amanda> Okay, Scirpus...

I wonder what 'cyperinus' means.

<John> That's a good question.

I think it sort of suggests the sedge family.

<Amanda> Okay.

Well, anyway, I think it's very handsome.

And I see that a lot just on the highways in the ditches.

And then this was mixed in with some of the other things.

And I recognize that because I once picked some cattails and left them in my living room, and I came home one day, and they had exploded, and this white stuff was all over my living room.

<John> Yeah.

<Amanda> And so, that was caught up in some of the other stuff that I said, because it wasn't a cattail that was blooming, you know?

And I said, "Well, that's just a cattail mess," because that's how their flowers get around.

<John> Yeah, and again, the seeds are equipped with tiny bristles.

They're very tiny seeds, and the seeds will be produced in the hot dog looking thing, which is the female portion of the inflorescence.

<Amanda> Do they blow?

Are they small enough to blow around or do they just... <John> Let me tell you, yes.

So on some of my field trips in the summer or fall, I'll sometimes be sort of naughty and take one of those cattails that's nice and starting to break open... <Amanda> Yeah.

<John> and just stick it under my windshield wiper and go driving down the highway.

[laughter] <Amanda> Well, it's a native plant.

I think that's very nice.

<John> It's a native plant, but it can be a bit invasive in some places.

That is.

It'll crowd other things out.

<Amanda> Well, anyway, if you have one and you want to cut some, I've heard you can put a lot of hairspray on it, but I think I would probably lacquer it instead.

Don't you?

I think that would be safer than hairspray.

<John> Yeah, I've heard of that.

<Amanda> I don't use a lot of hairspray, obviously.

I can't imagine hairspray...

I mean, when that thing popped open, and I came home it was quite a surprise.

And that's a fun one because I know the name of it.

And people think "Oh, well, I'm going to go get some and smoke it," but I don't think... <John> Yeah, it wouldn't work.

This is called climbing hemp, and it is not in the hemp family, but it's in the sunflower family.

<Amanda> Is it?

<John> Oh, yeah.

It's a vine and it sort of has triangular shaped leaves on a stalk, and this vine will form big mats on top of other vegetation.

>> That's what it was doing there?

>> And then when it blooms, it makes a lot of these very tiny flowers in a mostly flattened arrangement.

And to me they're some of the sweetest, sweetest leaved fragrant flowers there are.

<Amanda> Oh, well I'm going to have to stop on the way home.

I mean, coming in tomorrow.

<John> These are a bit over with, now.

<Amanda> Past their prime?

Just like me.

[Amanda chuckles] <John> Amanda, you'll never be past your prime.

<Amanda> My sister doesn't think so.

She's given up hope, but they do smell sweet.

<John> They do when they're nice and fresh.

<Amanda> Okay.

<John> And the name of this one is, I say, climbing hemp and the scientific name is Mikania scandens.

<Amanda> Mikania scandens... and I'm always real happy.

It's really quite bright when it's fresh, I mean, white.

The flowers are much brighter when they're fresh, and it always excites me to see it when I'm riding around, because you can see it because it's climbing up in things.

<John> Yeah.

<Amanda> And it's one that I know so... <John> It's a native.

<Amanda> Yeah, yeah, climbing hemp.

So, and then we had some other messy things.

There was a lot of mess in there.

So here's one for you.

<John> Yeah, this one... doesn't have any flowers on it, but when it did have flowers, they were kind of pretty.

<Amanda> Were they?

<John> Four yellow petals.

<Amanda> Really?

Oh, gosh, I wish I'd noticed it then.

<John> And all the flowers that are not open at the same time, just a few at a time.

<Amanda> Which is nice.

You get an extended flowering period.

<John> Yeah, and it can be four or five feet tall, I guess, maybe four feet.

<Amanda> Yeah, I was just reaching in a little bit and cutting things off.

<John> And then after it blooms it'll make this little pod or little, it looks like a box almost.

<Amanda> It does look like a box.

<John> And it's full of seeds.

<Amanda> Oh!

<John> So let's call it 'seed box.'

<Amanda> Seedbox, too cool!

I like that!

<John> Now let's see what's, what's inside.

I don't know if the camera can get this, but there's... >> Oh, there are a good many seeds in there.

<John> Oh yeah, so... <Amanda> Alright.

<John> One doesn't have to think too hard about how this stuff gets dispersed in nature, but these seeds will fall in water sometimes and float around, or just take root on damp soil.

<Amanda> Okay.

<John> And the genus is Ludwigia.

<Amanda> Ludwigia.

Okay.

<John> And there's a good many species.

<Amanda> Was there a Count Ludwig that it's named for or something?

<John> Ludwig van Beethoven.

>> Oh, oh, oh, of course.

<John> I'm kidding.

[Amanda chuckles] >> But there probably was somebody Ludwig.

>> Yeah, there was a botanist named Ludwig.

<Amanda> Yeah, okay.

Alright, and then was this the last one?

<John> I think this is the last one.

So you've got - not a grass.

Look, it's got cattail on it.

<Amanda> Oh.

Well, you can see that cattail gets on everything.

<John> It's not a grass, and it's not >> You're lucky if you don't take cattail home in your beard.

[laughter] If it's not a grass, and it's not a sedge, then what's left?

<Amanda> Rush.

<John> A rush.

Because it's in water.

<Amanda> Yeah, just like Moses in the bulrush.

<John> Yeah.

And it's got, you know, the standard stuff that rushes have in the rush family, but this is Juncus, so this is a true rush, and Juncus is kind of a funny name, but there are lots and lots of species of Juncus, and many of them are obligate wetland species.

And what they do with their little flowers, the flowers look, over all the world, like a small lily flower.

<Amanda> Do they, really?

<John> You need your hand lens to see them.

<Amanda> Because that's mini flowers in these.

<John> Each one of these little balls is probably 25... <Amanda> Uh huh.

<John> 25 or 30 flowers all crowded together into a... <Amanda> My goodness!

<John> And then each capsule, the little ovary of the flower will turn into a pointy green capsule, and it'll have a bunch of seeds in it.

Very tiny.

So Juncus, I think that a lot of species of our native rushes would make great aquatic garden plants.

<Terasa> Yeah, we recommend, especially like Juncus, use a soft rush for stormwater ponds or a long ponds.

You know, a lot of folks really want more of that manicured look and instead of just mowing turf grass, which is not going to be good for erosion, you can put Juncus, and it gives you kind of that same look.

<Amanda> Okay.

I don't know if all of y'all remember, but Terasa started her life with us as a stormwater expert.

<Terasa> Water quality, uh huh.

<Amanda> Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Anyway, and then there was also a bald cypress that was beginning to color up and will be losing it leaves.

<John> Yeah.

<Amanda> Because it's a deciduous conifer.

<John> Deciduous conifer, which is a bit unusual.

<Amanda> Yeah.

Well, anyway, thank you so much, because, you know, it was just fun.

I mean, here I am, driving on this road and highway and all these cars going back and forth.

And I said, "I'm just gonna pull in here and pay some attention to what's going on in here today because Dr. John's coming in," and I thought it would be fun.

<John> Yeah, like a botanical grocery store.

<Amanda> It really was.

Yeah, yeah.

And I'm sure there was a lot that I didn't get, but I'll put on my high water boots one day and delve deeper into that place.

Okay.

Thanks for the help.

<John> You're welcome.

<Amanda> Well, Terasa, I guess this is now the time for our spotlight garden.

<Terasa> Yeah, so this is sort of an expansion of Gardens of the Week where we look at six photos usually of one particular yard.

Today happens to be from Sam and Debra Barrett in Chapin, South Carolina.

You can see that grasses are the focal point of the Barrett yard, as you'll know in these first two photographs.

There's also a large planting of Obedient plant, the one with the lilac colored flowers, and a row of Lycoris, and we've talked about those.

Sometimes people call them Surprise Lilies or Hurricane Lilies.

Debra also included some containerized succulents as an accent on a garden table, and we wrap up with some showy Zinnias, making a splash in the background.

Thanks, Sam and Debra, for sharing a little bit of your yard with all of us.

<Amanda> Thank you, Terasa.

I made my hat out of some cotton.

Today was a 'stop on the side of the road today' day to do that stuff.

But I also stopped at a place that is real close to here, where they sell hot dogs that are advertised as being so good that they make your tongue want to jump out of your mouth and slap your forehead.

[laughter] And growing right there by that place surprisingly, was some Lycoris.

So I figured I'd add that to my hat.

<Terasa> Perfect.

<Amanda> And I would like to get some of those other varieties.

Remember when the guys from the zoo came and had those beautiful new colors?

<Terasa> And they were gorgeous!

<Amanda> But this plain old red spider lily is still kind of fun, and I don't think it has any spider lilies.

It's just supposed to look like that.

We had a nice visit, and did some cooking right here for the first time, which was very exciting.

We're kind of getting back to a semblance of normal life.

And it was all about diabetes, because November is when we have National Diabetes Day.

National Diabetes Day occurs in November.

So we thought we'd have some health care professionals come and explain what we're doing in South Carolina to try to help people who have this condition and try to help people not have this condition.

Ellie Lane you're a fellow Clemson Extension agent.

But you are very different from me, because I'm in horticulture and I think you're in rural health.

>> Yes, ma'am.

So I'm on the Rural Health and Nutrition Program team with Clemson Cooperative Extension Service.

And I'm also a registered yoga teacher.

So, we have health extension agents all over the state of South Carolina and we lead chronic disease prevention and self management programs.

So, we focus on diabetes, pre-diabetes, and high blood pressure.

>> So, chronic disease means one that you have, and you're going to have.

It's not like getting a cold or something.

>> Absolutely.

<Amanda> Okay, but they can be managed so that it's not as severe.

<Ellie> Absolutely.

So, we have a couple different programs designed for the residents of South Carolina, one of which I really want to talk about with you today, since it is the month with World Diabetes Day is the Health Extension for Diabetes Program.

<Amanda> Then Christa, you are Christa Gonzalez, you are connected with University of South Carolina based in Columbia.

- and I just think it's a fascinating thing to think that medicine does so much more than we used to.

I mean, it's so much more holistic.

So explain how you fit in.

>> Yes.

I am with Foodshare, which is a program of the University of South Carolina, and my role is in culinary medicine.

So, we are working with medical students and with the community that Foodshare serves to really help people use food as medicine, and alongside Ellie's team, and we are we're very diabetes focused, Diabetes prevention.

>> And that really makes sense because lifestyle, I believe has a good bit to do with hypertension, with diabetes and they interact and so just going to the doctor's office may not be enough, a lot of us are going to need you to make changes in our life.

>> Yes, exactly.

So what our program at Foodshare does is we try to help people once they've left the doctor's office with that, you need to eat better.

You know, mandate is to how am I going to do that and we give them the produce and some recipes and some guidance in cooking delicious and more.

Usually it's based on more vegetables.

>> Foodshare is interesting in that a lot of people in South Carolina especially since you deal with people in the rural areas don't have a lot of opportunities to get fresh, nutritious food.

So, let's talk about how Foodshare helps overcome that gap.

<Christa> Yes, definitely.

Foodshare was created to help people who have a hard time accessing fresh fruits and vegetables have a way to receive this box full of fruits and vegetables every other week.

<Amanda> I believe it was funded by a grant from Blue Cross Blue Shield.

<Christa> Yes, so Foodshare was started as a food box program in Columbia, and then Blue Cross Blue Shield Diabetes Free of South Carolina got wind of us.

We won a grant from them and we have plans to - we started in Columbia, and we're expanding to more counties across South Carolina and our goal is to be in every county in South Carolina.

And there's partner organizations that we're working with throughout the state.

So, if you are in one rural area, and you're not sure if there's a Foodshare, box program near you, you can call the extension.

You can call us and we'll find you the closest hub where you can order your food box.

>> And I think that you even find people in the community sometimes who will take them to people.

and if you're on the SNAP program, I believe there's a real advantage to using this program.

Is it discounted?

>> Yeah, absolutely.

So we actually work with a lot of people that are at risk or distressed zip codes and we like to share the information about Foodshare that if they use SNAP, it's at a much discounted price.

So you get a lot of produce for your SNAP dollars.

A regular small box for Foodshare is $10.

But if you snap it's only 5, <Amanda> Okay, and there's a larger box if you have a bigger family.

And seasonally, there'll be a lot of South Carolina produce, but then some of the fruits and things, of course have to be outsourced?

Well, I think that one of the things that you do is you try to I mean, they've got to get the box, but then you got to learn how to cook it healthily, because usually, if you look in Charleston Receipts, the first thing it does, it says is to fry a couple of strips of bacon, and then start, you know, cooking, I think, we're trying to change that way that we traditionally teach.

So let's talk about what we're going to do today.

<Christa> Yes, definitely.

So, when making changes to your diet, it's really, and Ellie knows this, it's really easier to take baby steps.

So, the recipe that we're going to cook today uses several things that you might find in a small box.

And we're going to take baby steps by using a spaghetti squash instead of pasta to make this dish.

So we're going to use some fresh tomatoes, which would be in a box, our spaghetti squash, onions, carrots, and then we're going to make lean protein, turkey meatballs.

And that's all going to come together in a spaghetti and meatballs dish.

But just with a little healthier bent, say baby steps forward.

>> Well, let's start making our - doing our prep, and y'all can tell us some more about ways that y'alls programs can help people with diabetes and some of the related conditions that go with it.

So give me a task.

<Christa> Okay.

So, you're going to do a fresh tomato sauce with these roma tomatoes.

The reason that we are suggesting a fresh tomato sauce instead of a can sauce is that, that way you control the sodium?

Yes, you control the sodium, I mean, I'm just a huge fan of the fresh, right so and this gives you, your own chance if you want to make it spicier, if you want to, you know, add more herbs, this recipe has a combination of dried and fresh herbs.

So, we're going to have you making a fast tomato sauce.

So you're going to chop some onions, some tomatoes, and they're all going to go in this pan.

<Amanda> Okay.

<Christa> Ellie is going to be making turkey meatballs, which are really simple with the Keto.

Yours is also a lot of fresh herbs and dried herbs together, Turkey just sort of absorbs flavor.

So, we want to add a lot to it.

And then I'm going to put this spaghetti squash.

We picked the spaghetti squash because as Ellie and I talked about this, it's a really fun vegetable, because it's really like spaghetti when it's done, if you've never had it.

<Amanda> I've tried it recently, I guess, about two years ago, it is tasty.

<Christa> It's delicious.

It's very easy.

So, the hardest part is cutting it.

So, be very careful when you cut it.

One trick is to microwave it for just about two minutes before.

<Amanda> Don't overdo it because it might pop open.

That's no fun.

<Christa> This is very simple.

So, I would start this first, because we're going to roast this in the oven.

This whole recipe you could get together once you are familiar with it, you could get it together in under an hour.

So, put your oven to 400.

<Ellie> One thing we talk about on the Health Extension for Diabetes program is making swaps.

So, we know that we have starchy and non-starchy vegetables and there's a place for everything on a diabetes plate.

Carbohydrates tend to get a bad rap, and they're very important for your body.

It's actually your body's preferred source of energy.

So, we need our carbohydrates, but we just want to make those healthier swaps, like Christa was saying, so spaghetti squash is one of those non-starchy vegetables, which means it provides a little bit less carbohydrate and sugar for you, which makes your diabetes play a little bit better.

So that's why we chose that one today.

<Christa> Right <Amanda> Now, you were telling me something about stress, and diabetes, and since you're a yoga instructor, and all that wonderful stuff that goes with that, how does that all connect?

And is it important to learn tools to not only make good food choices, but also to try to - to not eat maybe a bowl of popcorn, but do something else?

>> Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

So, that's definitely something that we talk about.

>> A lot of us eat when we're stressed.

>> Yeah, absolutely.

And we talk about that in the Health Extension for Diabetes Program.

But stress is one of the lifestyle factors that can affect your blood sugar, and when you're stressed, your liver actually releases extra sugar.

It's in communication with the rest of your body.

So, your liver says, Oh, I recognize that Ellie's blood pressure is a little bit higher.

Her breath is more rapid.

So, your liver says, Okay, I'm going to kick in release some extra sugar.

<Amanda> you might be chased by a dog down the street.

I mean, it goes back to saying like, fight or flight.

<Ellie> Right?

<Amanda> That's not good, because then, our glucose starts to spike or <Ellie> - right.

So if you already have diabetes, and your blood sugar levels are higher than they should be, and if you add stress on top of that, it's kind of like a catch 22, where you're already high, and they're going even higher.

So, it's not good for us.

If we have diabetes, to have stress.

<Amanda> What is it like, diabetes?

What does it do to your body that's unhealthy?

What are the long term effects of having diabetes?

<Ellie> That's a great question.

So, we definitely talk about that in the program too, if you'd like more information, but diabetes has a lot of complications that could come with it, if it's not well managed.

So I'm talking about if you're not doing the things that you're supposed to do for months, or years at a time.

We see a lot of circulation issues, so things like loss of feeling in our hands and feet.

<Amanda> Yeah.

<Ellie> And that's called neuropathy.

You could also have issues, we like to say in class, anywhere where your blood flows in your body is an opportunity for a future complication, because the issue is with your blood sugar.

That includes your cardiovascular system, your heart, your blood vessels, and anywhere that blood flows.

So, we have issues with circulation, we can have issues with our vision and our sight and things like that.

>> Would you help me with some of these, please?

>> Yes, happy to.

<Christa> I don't know if you saw, but I just put olive oil, salt and pepper on this.

This is going to go in a 400 degree oven for 40 minutes.

So that's the longest portion of this.

and if we were at home, doing it, we might want to get started a little earlier.

>> - started on that and then do you want to pass me that little compost bucket?

>> Sure.

Thank you.

I might ask you to cut my onion, too.

>> Oh, of course.

>> Now, Christa, do you get involved in direct education?

Or are you more in charge of trying to find programs that people like Ellie and other partners can use to provide things like the fresh food and the teaching opportunities?

>> So Foodshare?

Does community cooking classes?

>> Oh you do?

>> Yes, we do.

We are building a brand new teaching kitchen and warehouse facility in Columbia where we will have classes for the community and for medical students.

<Amanda> That makes sense, because they're the ones who are going to be with the patients.

<Christa> Yes.

So we want doctors, nurses, PAs, to be able to talk about how to make these changes in your diet, not just off you go, do better.

We want to show them a great recipe like this or ask them about, you know, coming to cook with their patients, which is a great sort of teaching tool, and the medical students and some of the physicians and residents come in and cook with our community classes.

<Amanda> So they - Is there a movement within the medical community to be more engaged beyond simply the office visit?

<Ellie> I can answer to that.

Absolutely.

So we actually started the Health Extension for Diabetes Program out of a partnership with Prisma Health in upstate South Carolina.

That was funded by the Greenville Health Authority.

So, it was actually that partnership where they recognized - our clinical linkage recognized that there was a great need for community help and spreading more awareness, education and support regarding diabetes management and they were seeing a lot of cases where the doctor would either give the diagnosis or not really give a diagnosis of diabetes and then there was a lot of confusion, for those people that have been recently diagnosed about what to do.

So, the Health Extension for Diabetes program was really started to be an education and support program to help people better manage their blood sugar.

So we talk about all kinds of things that the doctor recommends like getting more activity, eating a nutritious diet, managing stress.

<Amanda> So, I guess blood pressure management is a part of it, too.

>> It - absolutely.

>> That's one thing that you mentioned earlier when you said if you get canned tomatoes, sometimes I look at the label and I mean to tell you they are full of salt.

<Both> They are >> - surprising places where sodium hides.

Yes.

>> And Ellie, I think under normal conditions, you get to have people come in for classes.

But we have all learned how much we can reach people through different sources.

So tell me how you would go about what your classes are sometimes like, and some of the topics that you and in what order y'all take them, and how you've used these virtual systems.

And even people who don't have the Internet, I think you found a way sometimes to even reach them.

<Ellie> Sure.

So, we used to offer the program just in person in Greenville County, but now it's available statewide.

We don't have health extension agents in every county yet, but we're working on staffing those.

So, if you live in a county where the interest in-person classes aren't offered, you can always join online.

And it's a great format.

So, it's designed to be a group setting.

So, you get some interaction with your peers, other people absolutely that - >> - have a good time.

>> Yeah.

- that are going through the same things you are, and getting that feedback and support is really important.

But we talk about a lot of different things related to diabetes management, again, that your doctor would recommend eating a nutritious diet, the science behind diabetes.

So, what is it exactly with my insulin that causes my blood sugar to go higher than it should be?

We also talk about increasing physical activity getting as much movement in as possible.

And I have a catchphrase with my classes, I say move more, sit less.

I don't care what you do, just get your body moving >> Here we are standing up, rather than sitting down.

>> There you go.

In a way that feels good for you.

Make it work for you.

We also talk about developing a really good relationship with your healthcare team.

So, you understand what your medications do and how you should take those, and stress management, of course, is my favorite, because I mentioned I'm a yoga teacher.

We talked about deep breathing, and other strategies to get your stress down to control your blood sugar.

<Amanda> How prevalent is the incidence of diabetes in our state?

<Ellie> It is unfortunately, very prevalent.

So, in the nation, we are 8th highest for highest number of diabetes cases, and actually 500,000 people have diabetes, or one in seven.

>> And that's diagnosed cases?

And I bet sometimes people don't know they have diabetes, don't they?

>> Yeah.

So, that is just diagnosed cases, which means that there are a lot of people walking around that don't understand their blood sugar is within that range of diabetes.

>> Now, I think you said that again, you know, we, there are a lot of - It's a wonderful state, but we do have some challenges in that, we can't, we certainly found this out when kids were in school.

I mean, we don't have Internet access in a lot of homes.

So I think you tried to find a way to even include some of those people in your classes.

Didn't you?

>> We did.

So, for at risk or distressed zip codes those families that don't have access to the Internet or a smartphone, they are available to call in to our ZOOM meetings.

So they can just listen over the phone.

We've reached a lot of people that way.

<Amanda> Yeah, yeah.

You said sometimes you put your compost in the freezer, and then you boil it up and get all the nutrients out and you strain it.

>> Yeah, so I like to save vegetable scraps, <Amanda> vegetable scraps, of course.

<Ellie> I put them in a reusable bag and put them in the freezer.

Then I use my instant pot to make a broth out of them.

<Amanda> I hadn't thought of what you're saying about just you know, getting all those wonderful nutrients boiling it up.

I think that's a terrific idea.

>> And then you can use it to cook your rice, your brown rice, because we want to focus on making half our grains whole grains.

<Amanda> Okay, because in the science behind that, I think that's really interesting, Amanda.

So when you eat something like a whole grain, brown rice versus white rice, >> Yes?

>> It actually takes longer for your body to break down the starches and the whole grain.

So you'll get a steady release of sugar throughout the day, which is better if you have diabetes.

We don't want refined grains like white rice because those spike blood sugar.

>> Spike things, yeah.

Now, tell me what all you've been putting over there in your turkey.

>> Lots of good stuff.

So, we've got spices, we're using Italian seasoning again, like Christa said, to add flavor without extra sugar without extra salt.

>> And this was low fat ground turkey, right?

<Ellie> Right.

So when we think about building a diabetes plate, we want to focus on half of that plate, being non starchy vegetables like what you've got in the sauce, and then we want to make sure a quarter of our plate is a lean protein.

So things like chicken, turkey fish.

Those are great options.

<Christa> I, even, go so far as to say if you build your plate around the non-starchy vegetables first and think of meat as a condiment, which is it's kind of a stretch.

<Ellie> That's a great way to think about it.

>> But it's a great way to say, look at these meatballs are going to be this part of our spaghetti squash, you know, very veggie rich, I'm going to chop some parsley for yours, because that's - Oh, look, Amanda's already done it.

>> That sounds perfect.

>> That's going to add even more flavor.

<Ellie> That sounds perfect.

<Christa> So, yours is beautiful and ready to go.

Yours is beautiful and ready to go.

<Ellie> Yeah, I'm going to start portioning them out.

<Amanda> Oh, so you got a little ice cream scoop.

That would be a good sized scoop if you're having ice cream, I like to - I eat too much ice cream <Ellie> I like to use a scoop like this, because then you get them all the same size.

<Amanda> - It's easier to cook.

<Ellie> They cook well all the same size evenly.

Yeah.

<Ellie> Here we go.

<Christa> Here we go.

<Amanda> Well, I think we are about at the point where we're going to - everything's almost ready to start simmering or baking.

So should we take a little break and pull out some other things that we need and come back and see where we are.

<Christa> Sounds good.

<Ellie> Sounds great.

<Amanda> Let's do that.

We are back with the next stage of our healthy meal, that's also going to be very delicious, I can tell and so I've got my spaghetti squash, I mean my tomato sauce cooking here.

And I think you're going to show us how to get the spaghetti squash out of that container that packed it in.

And we're going to do some meatballs down here.

<Christa> Sounds good.

These are baked and cooled just a little bit.

So we'll, - they're nice and soft, You can also poke them with a knife.

And it's an easy poke, right.

I've gotten them nice and golden brown.

And then this is the magic, where you're just going to scrape it into sort of the strands of the spaghetti squash like this.

<Amanda> Cool.

And the color's so pretty.

>> It's so pretty.

What I'm going to do is build our plate as we were talking about earlier, having half the plate building your plate first with the vegetables.

So, this is where we're going to make it look like spaghetti.

And then we'll put your sauce and some meatballs on top and - <Amanda> and enjoy it <Christa> - and enjoy it.

Yeah.

<Amanda> And you say, a smaller plate helps us not to get more than we should.

>> So portion size is very important, not just for diabetes, but for healthy eating in general and so a nine inch plate is a plate that we can fill, I'm almost done there filling that one halfway.

And I've only used about half of a half <Amanda> Ellie it's one in seven persons in South Carolina, which is I think about half a million people, know he or she has diabetes.

I bet there's some people who don't know it.

>> There's a lot of people that don't know they have diabetes.

That's exactly right.

So we talk about risk factors for developing diabetes in our program.

Some of those if you're not sure, if you have diabetes, but you're curious about it and interested in the program.

There are things that are both within and out of our control that lead to the development of diabetes.

Some of the things that aren't within our control are things like a family history.

So, if you have a parent or grandparent like myself, both my mom and my grandma both have diabetes.

<Amanda> My goodness, so you need to be careful.

>> on top of what I'm doing.

- Exactly.

In terms of lifestyle changes.

Your age also comes into play.

So, if you're over the age of 45, you're at a higher risk for developing type two diabetes.

And then some of the things that are within your control.

So, your activity levels.

Are you active for about 150 minutes each week?

Are you eating a nutritious diet?

Are you taking care of your body and managing your stress?

So those can be signs, if that kind of resonated with anyone that can be a sign to maybe reach out to your local health extension agent and take the ADA type two diabetes risk assessment test, and that can let you know your risk for developing diabetes.

>> Okay, well, I think I'm going to let this simmer a little bit more, and then we'll start plating and see how everything comes together at the very end.

>> Sounds good?

<Ellie> Sounds great.

>> Well, ladies, I think that the nine inch plate really makes me feel like I'm going to have a very nice, filling, satisfying meal.

<Christa> It's nice to focus on abundance instead of restriction.

Right?

>> And, I think having things look nice, it just, you might as well make it not a chore and spend, as you said, food prep and you can be more economical sometimes doing things that way.

<Ellie> Yeah, when you prep all this on a budget, it really helps your family, extend their food dollars, and you've got things that you can freeze too for later if you're in a hurry.

So, it's great.

>> And, you know, so often we're all running a lot of ways.

I think sitting down is sometimes the only time when people might have a little time to sit together and that would be stress relieving I would hope.

>> Yeah, and eating in community and with your family has been shown to improve your health in many, many ways.

<Amanda> Y'all have certainly done a lot for us, today.

Christa, thank you for what the University of South Carolina School of Medicine and Foodshare is doing to help people in South Carolina have better lives.

And thank you.

It's encouraging to see that extension continues to find ways to serve the citizens of South Carolina.

And my hat's off to y'all for especially the way y'all have been so creative during this past year.

>> Thank you, Amanda.

We're very passionate about it.

We want to help South Carolina be healthier and happier.

>> I'm going to get you to come back and help me with some yoga poses.

>> You got it.

[laughs] <Amanda> We sure enjoyed being with you tonight.

We hope that you had a good time and learned some things as well.

We look forward to seeing you next week.

Night Night.

♪ ♪ Making it Grow is brought to you in part by the South Carolina Department of Agriculture Certified South Carolina Grown helps consumers identify, find, and buy South Carolina products, McLeod Farms in Mcbee, South Carolina.

This family farm offers seasonal produce including over 22 varieties of peaches, additional funding provided by International Paper and the South Carolina Farm Bureau Federation and Farm Bureau Insurance.