This is the 2024 by degrees Climate Summit.

We are already experiencing climate change.

Just in the past year in New England experienced many storms and flood damage from the coast of Maine to the river valleys of Vermont in July, December, January and in April.

These events can, of course, be very painful.

But in our response, we can catch glimpses of the future, right?

Writer and climate activist Rebecca Solnit writes, disaster offers a view into another world for ourselves.

And I really believe that, for example, after Katrina, residents of the ninth Ward in New Orleans created a structure of mutual aid with their neighbors, sharing food, first aid, and meeting people's needs.

And this is the kind of thing we see all the time.

We've seen it here in New England.

Some of the people on this panel can speak directly to that.

And so even though climate change is a catastrophe, it is an opportunity to build systems that work better for all of us.

But how how do we do that?

And how do we do it in a sustained and long term way around climate solutions that could take years?

And how do we do that with our neighbors and local governments?

So let's ask our panelists about this.

We are so excited.

I'm so excited to introduce, this group.

Brianna O'Brien is the conservation coordinator for the town of Hampton, where she focuses on improving the local ecological health and resilience of Hampton, especially its wetlands.

Claudia Diaz Martinez is a policy fellow at the City of Boston's.

Environment Department, where, among other things, she's focused on helping, city staff and its community become carbon neutral by 2050, or the city of Boston to become carbon neutral by 2050 and helping leaders prioritize justice and equity.

She's also a PhD candidate at Boston University, and Corey White is based in Vermont's Northeast Kingdom, where she's the director of community health equity at Northern Counties Health Care.

After the damage of last July's floods.

She also helped co-found and now chairs the Northeast Kingdom long term recovery group, Kingdom United Resilience and Recovery Effort.

So welcome.

Let's give them a round of applause, please.

So let's start with the topic of this panel.

Why are we talking about the local today?

A lot of people experience limitations and hurdles that come from getting government assistance.

In the wake of disasters.

Hurricane Sandy is just one example, meaning that community generated solutions are essential.

But why is that?

I'd like to hear from each of you.

What is something that's happened in your region that couldn't have been done, or would have been so much harder without community involvement?

Maybe something that even could only have been done coming from the local.

Brianna, can we start with you?

Sure.

Yeah.

I think that, when we're thinking about the action that we're taking at a local level, we want to be, prepared and, mitigating disasters and in the preparedness, we want to have that ahead of the disasters happening.

And in Hampton, we have a lot of really amazingly involved residents who have advocated for years, for the health of their of their community, specifically the folks along the coast and who border the marsh.

A lot of the the priorities that Hampton has really focused on over the past few years wouldn't have happened without their advocacy.

In, in 2014 because of their, their work and their consistency and showing up to town meetings, and their questioning and their and their concerns being brought to light repeatedly.

The town did some, studies, and that led to further studies and eventually became a pretty, at this point, robust, priority for the for the town of Hampton to focus on climate resilience and coastal resilience.

Across most of our departments.

Corey, what about you?

So I would say that in the Northeast Kingdom, which happens to be 2000mi , right?

It's a huge region.

It's very rural, has a history of, timber industries and sort of those shutting down, leading to intergenerational poverty, right?

Transportation issues, chronic health issues.

The opioid crisis has not spared the Northeast Kingdom high levels of suicide.

Right.

People are feeling, desperate.

And when a disaster strikes, it's it just shines a light on the existing, disparities and, issues that people are dealing with and their day to day life.

So when there are governmental agencies that come in in the wake of a disaster, rightfully so, many of our disenfranchized neighbors, are very wary of going into a space sitting across a table with a person representing the government in a uniform who knows nothing about, their situation, their family.

So regardless of how beneficial those resources might be, the messenger matters.

And so I think in the Northeast Kingdom, where we have a really strong neighbor to neighbor mutual aid network, we have, some incredible community organizing groups, Northeast Kingdom organizing, for example, we're able to be relationship brokers and work with our friends and neighbors and people sort of on the margins of our community who are mistrustful of these services and these resources, to say, you know, come with I will come with you, I will sit with you, we will figure out this paperwork.

Yep.

Let me come to your house with you.

We can find the deed to your house because they need that.

Right.

So it's simple things like that.

But if you don't have those relationships ahead of time, you've got little chance of, sparking those up when you need to when a disaster strikes.

So that work and that relationship building needs to happen and it needs to be an ongoing thing.

That's a really good point.

Claudia.

What about you?

Sure.

Hi, everyone.

Thank you for being here.

Back in Boston, I've been very honored, privileged to be part of what I see as one of the most significant, programs that we have in the city to achieve carbon neutrality.

And the name of that program is Berta, which stands for Building Emissions.

Reduction and Disclosure Ordinance.

And I won't go into much detail right now.

But one of the reasons I feel so much pride to be part of the team that is implementing this program now is that it is one of the few, building decarbonization programs of its kind in the United States that has such intentional components for environmental justice and, that not only has explicit goals for justice, but also has very intentional, intentional measures to make sure that the implementation of the program is equitable.

And that or most vulnerable communities in Boston can ultimately benefit from better buildings.

And I can say that this program would not exist or it would not exist in this way if it wasn't for the commitment of a lot of community based organizations in Boston that put a lot of work throughout the years to have this program in place, to have better buildings in the city.

Yeah, and we'll definitely talk more about justice a little bit later.

But, right now, Boston has committed to becoming carbon neutral by 2050, which reflects the Paris Agreement and federal goals.

What?

You mentioned buildings.

But what does carbon neutrality for a city mean?

Can you break that down a little?

Sure.

So, in this context, carbon neutrality would mean that we are reducing the emissions that we produce as the city as much as we can, and those emissions that still remain after all of our mitigation efforts can be mitigated in other ways.

So, like true renewable energy in other parts, or by having other types of efforts that benefit the community?

So that's the goal that we have as a city to reach by 2050.

And Berto, this program is one of the key pieces for the.

Thank you.

So, you and others in the Northeast Kingdom created this long term recovery group, and you've been part of that, has been trying to find contractors to provide estimates for repair work.

And you called this the steepest learning curve of your life?

That's a direct quote.

What is it?

What do you mean by the steepest learning curve of your life?

How so?

So, I pride myself on, sort of preparation.

I don't love surprises.

And when there's, challenge or task in front of me, I go all in and I do hours of research.

I talk to as many people as I can possibly find, who I think might be able to shed some light on whatever challenge or situation it is.

And still, despite months being, part of this work in this long term disaster recovery work, I am reminded on a daily basis how little I know and how little I understand, and how it shifts every single day, and how complex this is.

It doesn't matter how much reading you do, it doesn't matter how many different organizations and entities federal, state, local that you talk to.

It seems like there is very little clarity to be had.

So I just know that it feels like I'm climbing up this steep mountain.

And I just don't know if there's a summit.

I feel like it might be just this mountain that you never reach the top of, I don't know.

Well, how did it start?

So the Northeast.

Kingdom has the benefit of, having really long standing and I'm talking decades long, partnerships, cross-sector, cross organizational, partnerships.

To, to work really in deep collaborative collaboration with one another.

So we have a history of strong and trusting organizational and individual relationships.

Which without those when this disaster hit and there was this push to establish this thing called a long term recovery group, which is sort of the FEMA recognized way to do disaster recovery.

We were able to structure ourselves, in that very specific way to be recognized and to be able to become, an entity that could benefit from philanthropic and potentially government assistance and dollars and programs, etc..

So I, you know, it's been a really, interesting thing and thank goodness I have people in my life and in my community that I can pick up the phone and call and say, hey, there's this really hairy issue.

I don't know if it's a breadbox or a barn.

I have no idea what it's going to mean.

I really don't know what role you're going to play, what I'm asking you to do, how much time it's going to take, or how long it's going to end, or when it's going to end.

If it's going to end, or if we can even recognize and achieve any level of success.

Sound good?

Are you in?

Right.

So.

And I have enough people in my life that will say, okay, sure.

I'm in, like, let's figure this out together and, like, understand?

It's going to feel terrible sometimes.

But I'm not alone.

I'm not an individual in this trying to figure this out.

I have a team of people.

Yeah, a breadbox or a barn is a beautifully New.

England metaphor.

Just just to say, we heard from a listener named Nate who wrote us when an applicant for a building permit develops engineering plans to account for flooding, they often only need to account for 25 year storm events.

We know that thousand year storm events now happen every few years.

Almost all buildings and development in New Hampshire have been poorly designed to manage stormwater for flooding that occurs increasingly frequently.

I'm wondering, you mentioned buildings, Claudia, as part of your work, is this can you speak to this in Boston as well?

Well, I'm not part of, like, the construction of buildings.

Berto is, building decarbonization program for existing buildings.

So the challenge here is to decarbonize the buildings that are already up there.

But it it can provide opportunities to think about resilience.

What I think maybe Brianna, has.

I see you nodding.

Yeah.

It's it's a really challenging system to navigate knowing, kind of the shortcomings of FEMA's mapping systems and what they, what they account for.

And often times when they're released, they're already antiquated because of how, dynamic floodplains are.

And with the changing climate, there's a lot of nuance to that that isn't often captured in those maps and therefore is not required by by building code and by FEMA standards.

In in Hampton, we have adopted higher standards for our building requirements.

And, they allow for, more freeboard depending on the type of structure.

So freeboard being how much higher above the base flood elevation a building has to be built to, certain stormwater management requirements.

So, they are it was actually a really great, kind of dynamic community.

There was community involvement.

There was a lot of stakeholders involved in these conversations as we discussed what that, ordinance update would look like.

And we were able to evaluate different options.

And what made the most sense for what, you know, kind of where we were at as a community.

And so that was, adopted.

I think it was this, this spring.

And, and so we're looking at much more resilient structures moving forward.

If new structures or substantially improved structures, is that part of the conversation in the Northeast.

Kingdom to as you're rebuilding from the flood damage?

So I'm going to go back to the size of the Northeast Kingdom.

The Northeast Kingdom region has 55 different towns and municipalities, all with different zoning regulations, ordinances, and most of them with very part time, I would say nearly volunteer municipal staff and management who they themselves can't keep up with all of the different rules and regulations and possible programs and resources.

So, yes, it is part of the conversation and it's part of, I would say our frustration and being able to assist, different homeowners and survivors who've been devastated by the July flooding, figure out what they need to do, what resources are available to help them do that, and then if they're actually going to be able to do it in the way that they want to, and that's a way that's actually sustainable, that will help them weather the next storm.

So it's a real need.

And we have, some real capacity deficits being able to support people in that way, that specific way.

I'd like to turn now to a, a super sexy subject that I think that we'll all know what I'm about to say, which is municipal budgets.

And their role in setting climate priorities in our backyards.

It actually is fascinating.

Claudia, you wrote a paper about this published in the journal nature, and you argue that municipal finance should be thought of as a, quote, set of ethical and political choices that can be used to move forward on climate action and justice.

What do you mean by that?

That's a great question.

And, well, myself, I never thought I would be excited about anything related to finance.

Ever.

And so it was a surprise to then spend a lot of years of my PhD focused on that.

But.

I like, when you think about it, municipal finance is, in the end, reflection of what we value as a society.

So we're saying this is what it's worth, investing our money and this is what we value.

This is what we think is the best for us in the future.

And cities, towns can have a lot of climate goals.

And all of these targets and beautiful commitments.

But in the end, if the money is not poured into climate action, it is likely that nothing will happen or not that much will happen.

So that paper I really want people to, you know, become more curious about, things that sounds so boring, like municipal budgets or, you know, revolving funds and where their city is pouring money.

And we'd found that actually, in terms of climate change, the decisions that municipalities make, for their budgets or financial decisions can really impact one city officials are ultimately able to do, we found that first aid can impact the types of climate programs that can get implemented in cities.

So cities, for example, would be more likely to prefer to implement programs that are profitable and that have some savings involved.

And a lot of the times things like resilience or reputation have seen, like where there's no money in that, maybe there's savings in the future, maybe we'll have a little less damage if there's another storm.

But that's less exciting for the financial people then, oh, where are you going to replace these heat, these heater with, new electric heat?

And we'll have these savings in two years.

So that's one.

And then, also how you get money can impact when and for how long you're actually able to implement a program from budgeting cycles to grants that say you have to spend all your money by X day, or you can only spend it on this geography, and you cannot spend money that could possibly be in another community, that it's your neighbor.

And then it shifts power to decide what is worth investing in our community.

So, instead of municipal budgets, instead of looking at their community and seeing, what are you prioritizing?

What do you need?

They also need to be thinking about, well, what do credit agencies prefer?

What will investors want to see in our municipal bonds?

So in that way it's shifts a bit of power to to decide, well, what are what is worth investing in when, how and for whom.

Really fascinating thinking about multiple budget cycles and how, you know, climate action has to be sustained over many, many years and often many budget cycles.

I'm curious of either of you, Brianna Currie, have, experience with managing.

You know, we we need to continue this beyond this budget cycle or when it was a struggle or when it was a success.

Do you want to speak to.

Well, I will say that, we are incredibly fortunate to have the Vermont.

Community Foundation, in the state of Vermont, who has stepped up in a big way, as a funder and a very transparent funder who is willing to have conversations and hear what is working, what is not working, and where they can be helpful in a very reasonable way in terms of grant requirements.

For applications or reporting, it might just be a conversation like, how did you spend the money?

Did it help and what you were hoping to do?

So they have been incredibly, just just a real partner, which has been a breath of fresh air and very helpful.

But there's no money in this for us as a long term recovery group.

Right?

We're we're basically a vehicle that is trying to disperse funding, on behalf of individuals, survivors in our communities that have been impacted.

And, the real money in disaster recovery goes to these huge national organizations like the Red cross or the Methodist Church, etc., etc., who have years of coming into disaster, impacted communities.

And getting these hundreds, millions of dollars grants to like staff up capacity wise.

Right.

And do these rebuilding projects as part of their ministry work and, and whatnot.

And that's a wonderful resource to have, but it's not embedded in our community.

It's this external resource that comes in, saves the day and then leaves.

So sustainability of these efforts is called a long term recovery for a reason.

Right.

This is like a five year process.

And the chance at that I mean that's actually it's probably going to be more than that for our communities.

And that's a bitter pill to swallow because people are suffering right now and they've been suffering since July.

So you never feel like you're moving fast enough.

But where do we go for the next event?

That is sure to happen between now and when our survivors from the July flooding recover, right?

So it's constantly being on the lookout for grant opportunities and partnerships who might have some resources to bring to the table to help our capacity.

But it's a never ending process.

I wish there was a different way.

I don't know what it is.

Brianna.

Yeah, I think I have a little bit of a of a different lens to add to that, which is kind of piecemeal together, small grant opportunities and, trying to use that as holistically as possible and, and plan for that as holistically and comprehensively as possible with the short term and the long term in mind.

Some of these small grant opportunities are for, you know, a project that happens within a year.

And then and then where do you go from like then then and what happens?

And and then there's the capacity issues with who is going to be managing that project.

Is it a, a capacity, issue that you solve with short term grant funding and then you're in the same cycle, again with a short term position that's managing a short term project.

And then how do you get longevity out of that?

So I one of the things that I think is helpful, to kind of think, to reframe that is understanding that climate resilience is not going to happen just in its own climate resilience department.

So bringing climate resilience into all of the different types of work that's happening within a municipality and embedding it into everybody's work.

So, yes, ideally the town of Hampton will have a coastal resilience climate resilience department, but also there will be sustainability and longevity by everybody and embedding that into their work day to day and, and and holistically looking at grant opportunities and projects together and being able to instead of, instead of the piecemeal short term approach, taking the time to, to think about how to use the funding and the opportunity as a whole town.

And that does take time upfront.

It it does take away maybe you miss a couple of grant cycles while you're planning out what, what the next couple of years look like.

And and while you're reframing certain departments work.

They're again, a bitter pill to swallow.

There are many in this work, but that that funding may be, not advantageous to go after while you're while you're planning how to make future funding more sustainable.

If you're just now joining us, this is the 2024 by Degrees Climate summit.

We are talking about community solutions in New England with three people who have been working on just that Brianna.

O'Brien and Hampton, Corey White in the Northeast Kingdom, and Claudia Diaz Martinez in Boston.

I'm Justine Paradise of Knpr.

I think we can turn to an audience question.

We actually got this question from the same listener, that we heard from, but it's another good one.

So, Corey, I'll, I'll go to you first on this again.

But, Nate asks, what are the regional planning processes that can facilitate climate action?

How can this happen at a regional level instead of just inside of town?

I wish I could speak to that.

That has been something that we have been, really trying to figure out.

We do have regional planning commissions in the state of Vermont, including one that does work in the northeast Kingdom of Vermont.

And I honestly think that they are having a difficult time understanding how they can be helpful and how they can, come into partnership with the long term recovery group and community.

So I don't have a good answer for that.

But it's a great question.

Nate, you work on me now.

Yeah.

Well, we can turn to, another listener question to Brianna.

I can, start with you, but I'll, I'll hear from from both.

From anyone.

Matt from Lebanon asks what might New Hampshire's business community do to play a stronger role in advocating for more funding, particularly for rural and underserved communities most obviously affected by climate change?

This is also a really great question.

I'm going to I just learned about the Hannah.

Grimes Center for entrepreneurship.

I think that's what it's called.

They they're on it.

That's what they're doing, this work.

They're so wonderful.

Yeah, I think I want to just direct to that resource.

I don't know that I have as good of an answer as I think they could probably provide to that.

Sure.

Business community supports for for climate action other we want to speak to that.

Well, I would say from perhaps in the financial perspective as well, a lot of the climate work in Massachusetts.

We're very lucky that we have a lot of philanthropy that is very climate minded.

And that's not a luxury that a lot of cities or towns have in other states.

So in many ways that the constituency or, you know, the private sector environment in which a city is located has a lot of impact in what the city can do in that way.

And even from a justice perspective, in the city of Boston, we have been able to, for example, fund more long term community engagement or just more justice minded, activities that are not always very easily, fundable through the usual mediums of municipal budgets.

And, we have been able to do that community engagement through grants from philanthropy.

So they do have a role to play in from the financial perspective, but then also in advocating for these types of policies like we have in our, real estate community, universities, hospitals have all been very involved throughout the process.

And, having those climate commitments being part of their institution is, is a huge win as well.

Actually, I want to turn to equity here.

Climate change of course, affects people in the same community quite differently.

And members of a community may disagree on which issues to prioritize.

Claudia, can you give us a clear example of what climate inequity might look like?

And, an example of a justice minded solution?

Sure.

I think we don't have to go very far to notice climate injustice or climate inequity within our towns.

And cities.

So thinking specifically about climate change, for example, heat event or when we have just a very, very hot day, we all experience it very differently depending on our circumstances.

So it's not going to be the same to experience a heatwave.

If you work an office job and you're on the AC all day versus you, perhaps, have, work outdoors or if you're even on a house.

So just that single day in one single event or experiences are going to be tremendously differently or even where our houses are located, that we have access to green space, that we have access to air conditioning.

And all of these issues of access, come from, you know, structural injustices in our communities, from environmental racism, colonialism and so on.

So where we are not all starting from the same place.

So climate change is not an equalizer where, oh, well, we all suffer from climate change.

We will all experienced rising temperatures or storms or disasters, but we're not all in the same place to recover at the same rate or to, yeah, be protected from those things.

So thinking about a solution that would have justice in mind, what would be an example?

I think for a very simple example, I think the most environmental thing that people have, all the ways in mind, I mean, people make fun of me is like, oh, you're just planting trees.

But even something as simple as that, it's like it's not just about planting trees, but where where is there no access to green space right now?

Thinking about, who would benefit from these?

And they're not just going and planting trees and be like, yeah, now you have trees in a park, but, like, what would you like in the in that park?

What are the services that, your community is lacking?

So even just switching the mindset from, just like we're coming here and we know we need more trees and we're just planting them.

Well, where, how, why and what other services do you need going to the community first?

You're nodding.

Corey, do anything to add?

Well, I I'm so happy you mentioned Claudia.

This country was founded on a relationship to the land that is extractive, right?

That is about individual gain and about exploiting and power over right that is still alive, that is still dictating who gets to say what happens, how and when that gets, intertwined in our conversations.

It entirely dictates where money goes because it's the values of, it's like manifest Destiny, right?

It's it's like this.

This is mine for the taking.

And there are some people who are not worthy of those resources.

They are not valued the same.

And so they don't have the same access.

And I think of access as being, multifaceted, right, that I think of the term access in all its forms, because you could have physical access, financial access, social access to something.

But if you know that you don't belong, that you're not wanted, that the rules and regulations have been designed to exclude you and people like you, you are not likely to access that resource.

So is that actual access?

I don't think so.

So it does come down to questioning sort of the systems, the water we're swimming in.

Right.

And and being very intentional about, questioning that, and your sort of role and your privilege in, perpetuating the status quo too, right?

You can't just be, an observer to the systems.

You are part and parcel.

So this idea that you can just sort of tinker from the outside and fix things, I think is erroneous.

And so it's really this constant questioning of, am I representing privilege?

Am I wielding my privilege to help myself, or am I being in service of others who don't look like me, who are not white, who are not employed, who do not have a financial and stable situation?

Right.

So it's that constant questioning of am I perpetuating the status quo?

Or am I doing something to recognize it and and make it visible so we can do something about it together as far as doing something about it together?

When it comes to the coast, of course erosion and sea level rise are a huge issue.

I myself, grew up on Nantucket Island off of Cape Cod, which obviously has a lot of vacation homes, a lot of wealth.

But also sea level rise is a risk to critical infrastructure and to the working class community as well.

It's always a stance where there attention's around which areas that we as a community are going to prioritize, to try to protect, and the dynamics of wealth and power and inequity are at play.

Brianna and Hampton, also on the coast, how do you, as a community decide which projects to prioritize?

Where does that conversation happen?

It's a really, really challenging question that we deal with all of the time.

And I was thinking as, Corey and Claudia were talking, that, when we do prioritize solutions, we do try to to solicit input from community members from from partner partnering organizations.

And we want to make sure that the solutions we're pursuing are, mindful of of all those that are affected.

But sometimes the people that can make it to the table are the people that are retired, that aren't at work that day.

That don't have to, you know, bring their children, you know, to a doctor's appointment.

So being mindful of who is at the table and trying to find alternative ways to bring them into the conversation to consider what solutions might be more effective for them then, than we might realize.

And, you know, unintentionally cause harm through the solutions that we do prioritize.

I don't know that we have, I can't tell you a system that we use to to make sure that that's happening all of the time and that we're, we're, you know, making the best choices with our prioritization.

But it's an ongoing practice.

And we're, you know, constantly working to invite more people to the table and open that conversation up and find new avenues to solicit, feedback and questions and concerns.

It really is an ever evolving practice for, for our town.

We have a listener question here about money, specifically on using community funds and the type of small funds you mentioned.

Brianna.

Rebecca from Concord asks if a community has a small grant, say less than $10,000.

What is the best action they can take, to mitigate storm and flood damage?

Perhaps, I think that that outreach really is so important, and I think it goes back to what I was just saying.

And if if those $10,000 can be used to find avenues to bring more people into the conversation and to allow them to ask questions and to get them information, and to just open up that dialog, that's a perfect amount of money to do that.

To have those, opportunities for not just outreach, but, but that important two way dialog.

Right.

That reminds me of something in your research, Claudia, about you found that more public engagement in climate planning is associated with greater attention to justice.

So I love that synchronicity.

There.

As far as, Oh, here's another one.

Cable in Boston asks, what do you think of New York and New Jersey's plan to relocate homeowners and renters along coasts?

I know that, buyouts is a question that we'll, we'll touch on in each region here.

But again, in Hampton, Brianna, you your town has been exploring at least the possibility or starting the conversation of a buyout program.

Right?

Yes.

Yeah.

We have, we have exploring FEMA's procedures and FEMA funding is is a challenge in and of itself.

And we've spent a lot of time doing that to make sure that when we roll out this program, it's as effective as it can be.

And we are not, again, inadvertently causing harm.

Relocating people is really, really nuanced.

Challenge.

And there's a lot of, there's a there's a huge toll that it can play on somebody, mentally, the sense of place is so important, a sense of belonging, like Corey was talking about, sense of community.

So.

So there's a lot that goes into that.

And we've we've really been exploring that very thoroughly before we begin to, to roll that out.

But, as part of that same program, FEMA funds, home elevations and they provide financial assistance for home elevations.

And so that that's going to be kind of our first step in that in that program to help us, no pun intended, get our feet wet.

But, it will help us get familiar with the program and the needs that people have as they apply for this kind of financial assistance.

And, you know, hopefully we'll we're planning on rolling that out this this year and, piloting a one, home elevation application.

And we'll see where that program takes us into the future.

But there's been a lot of interest among our residents.

We put out a, a survey and, 13 people were were interested, which doesn't sound like a lot, but if you really think about a coastal community and 13 people being ready and willing to to relocate to have their their property acquired as soon as the funding is available, that seems pretty significant to me.

And there was, I think 60, 60 something, people that were interested in that possibility, if they learned more information, you know, down the line out of around 200, right?

Yes.

Yeah.

So there's definitely interest and it's certainly something that we're, we're actively working to roll out.

But it'll be interesting to see kind of where it lands culturally in the community.

Corey, what about buyouts in the Northeast Kingdom?

Yeah.

So, Brianna, you were saying that it's, a difficult process can be a difficult process, right?

I mean, I think it's traumatic.

I would say traumatic, even if it all goes well.

Right?

This debt dislocation.

So, it's confusing.

There's a lot of apprehension, even if it's really in some circumstances that I can think of.

The only real option, it's still incredibly scary.

And there's not a lot of choice in terms of where you're going to be relocated.

We don't have just vacant empty properties.

We have a housing crisis.

So the chances of you ending up in a home in your community are zip.

What are the ways to make it less scary?

Are there are there ways to make it less scary?

Well, I think having, the opportunity to just let people assess that sort of fear and their particular circumstance and situation, instead of trying to talk them out of how they're feeling.

Right.

Just letting people have time and space and, being alongside them and letting them, just talk about it, I think has been the only thing that we have found to be useful because it's confusing to us, too, even if we're able to sort of pour through, the literature and the process and maybe make that a little bit easier to understand, that doesn't take away the trauma and the fear that's happening in the community.

Yeah, that's what you're saying.

Yes.

Were you trying to say something, Claudia?

The.

So you're moving about?

Well, I and related to this conversation, I think it made me think of these contradiction that exist, again related to climate finance and resilience.

Because in a lot of, municipalities, for example, in Massachusetts, a lot of our municipalities rely on property taxes to be able to fund city services, including the way that we do climate resilience programs.

And so we need that money to protect ourselves from the Coast Guard, from storms, or from heat.

But at the same time, towns and cities are incentivized to allow development to continue in areas that we know are liable to climate change.

And there's been a lot of research, not by me, by, for example, Professor Linda G. From Cornell, of how coastal towns in Massachusetts feel continue to have development in areas that we know.

Are you going to flood very soon?

But we need those property taxes to be able to fund climate resilience in the first place.

And we have been, there has been research of that happening also in Miami, for example, where they're allowing a lot of development of high luxury buildings in areas that we know are going to flood.

But again, we need that for money to be able to then respond to that.

And so who gets to stay in the coast and how?

It's a question if you're just now joining us, this is the 2024 by degrees climate Summit.

We're talking about community solutions in New England with Briana O'Brien, Claudia Diaz Martinez and Corey White.

I'm Justine Paradise of Knpr reminder that if you have a question for one of our speakers, you can ask it by following the link through the QR code located above the stage.

Or if you're watching at home through YouTube, you can simply click the link in the description below.

Let's talk about how to get people involved and how to how to rally people to stay involved.

Beyond voting, an important topic, but beyond voting, as we mentioned earlier, Claudia, in your research, this idea of public engagement and climate planning is associated with a greater attention to justice.

So if you're a citizen and you're starting, from outside of politics, you want to see more climate action in your city.

How do you start?

What are specific offices or committees or people that you can look for?

Sure?

Well, I think if you live in a town or a city that is big enough and have enough resources to have its own climate department or environment department, that's a good place to start.

But that's not the reality in a lot of our municipalities.

But, I would encourage people to actually look at their budgets and figure out who makes those decisions, and how can you influence those decisions in the future?

There's no standards for municipal budgets.

So almost every town, it's different and it's the documents will look differently and decisions are made differently.

So I would encourage you to figure out how that works, where you live, get into those budgets.

Yeah.

Brianna, as a, conservation coordinator, how do residents help you do your job when you when people approach you, what do you like to see and what do you wish you saw more of?

I couldn't do my job without residents who, reach out to me with questions, with ideas for solutions, with concerns, with volunteer requests.

It my work is is so driven by by resident input.

I love when people come and ask questions about what they can or should or should not do on their property.

Because I think stewarding your own property responsibly is such an important first step.

And and breaking down the barrier between you and the world, around the natural world around you, and finding ways to, to do that.

Well, even just not mowing the grass.

In short, it's like just making those simple decisions to really connect with your natural world through your own backyard, or through the park in your neighborhood or, you know, through whatever green space you have access to is really, a super important first step.

And, and then I think residents who are monitoring their communities and their natural spaces and reporting back to me on what they're seeing is, I can't I can't put a weight on how important that is.

There are residents who lifelong residents who have been monitoring the size of the dunes by their homes for 30 years and have photo evidence of of of how these dunes have changed and evolved.

And, you know, it's not official data collection, but ultimately becomes that and how we're using it.

And so the residents who are really paying attention and trying to learn how to better pay attention to their natural world and, and again, break down that barrier between them as a human and, and the outside world, and coming to me or many of the different offices in our town office with those questions and concerns and any public town meeting, you know, those are great avenues for for that kind of work and, and that kind of dialog.

Yeah, a real treasure trove, that kind of knowledge gathering.

Yes.

What kind of volunteers are you looking for or helpful in Hampton?

We're replanting a dune next Thursday.

We're.

It's not legal to move sand with equipment, so we're going to use some shovels and wheelbarrows if you want to come out and do that with us, we could definitely use that sand as a I'm not even kidding.

Sand is such a hard resource to come by that we're going to be shoveling it off the road, making sure there's no debris in it, and moving it back into the dune.

So yeah, physical work like that is is super helpful.

But, I think there's also an element to volunteer work that, just just being an enticing enough opportunity to get people into the natural world and, and to cultivate that eco empathy is it's so important.

And so whether or not the event is actually about accomplishing a task like rebuilding, nourishing a dune, or just having people outside with you, in, in spaces in your community is they're equally important.

Corey, if someone's hearing about your work, a long term recovery group and thinking, oh, we we need that, in my region, what advice do you have for someone who's thinking about starting one?

Be as clear eyed as you can that it is complicated.

It is long term.

You need friends and allies, and you need to stay true to, what's calling you to do that?

And sort of the authentic part of you that wants to be in service of your community and that can help you, I think, come back and recenter yourself.

Amidst the sort of swirl of bureaucracy and rules and regulations and the literal mountains of paper that you will encounter, it's like, what is the why and how does that align with my greater purpose and my, my, my call to service?

So it's going to be hard, I think just being very realistic that it's that it's going to be hard talk to everybody that you can who has been through it, who has established a long term recovery group in a community like yours?

As much as possible, sort of the same size, maybe the same sort of cultural feel.

And then give yourself the grace to know that you are going to make a lot of mistakes.

And that is part of it, right?

So do it because it matters.

Be realistic about the change, the sort of change you want to see and how long that's actually going to take.

Yeah.

We got a listener question about mitigation and adaptation, which we've been touching on here and there.

Mitigation being reducing our impact, transitioning our fossil fuels and adaptation, finding ways to live with the impacts like extreme heat.

So Susan from in Durham says, have we abandoned efforts to reverse climate change?

Is adaptation our only focus now, Claudio, what do you think?

Well, all of my life is about mitigation, these days.

So, we're still working on climate mitigation, and that's still critical.

I think they are both one of, like, sides of the same coin.

One cannot exist without the other.

And in many ways, they can both support each other and we need to see them.

Well, resilience mitigation and justice all as one and not as these separate things with separate people and separate departments.

But yeah, I can give more insight into what we're doing in Boston, if that's.

Yeah.

Are there are there things that have, you focused on that are able to address both?

Sure.

So these building decarbonize ation program that I've been talking about essentially mandates existing large buildings in Boston to become net zero by 2050, and they have to reduce their emissions progressively over time.

And they have multiple ways to do that, to do that.

And one of those involves making improvements to existing buildings.

So that could mean improving insulation and doing energy efficiency, word weatherization, changing heating systems or water heating systems, which does not sound super appealing at first, but truly impacts our lives in many, many ways.

We all live in buildings.

That's where we work, where we learn, where we live, where we play.

So truly thinking about that and the impact in our lives.

But, going back to that connection to resilience.

So when we are improving those buildings, there is the opportunity to think, well, if I'm changing my heating system, can I elevate it because I know I'm going to be in the floodplain.

So can we pare those down and think about this holistically at the same time?

And hopefully we'll see more of that happening in coming days.

The we want to jump in.

Brianna Currie, just the as we're helping rebuild, survivor homes.

In the kingdom, so many homes are on the floodplain and their heating and electrical systems are in their basements.

So, as we're repairing, you know, we're moving up out of the basement, because it's just, you know, it's a predictable.

It's a predictable surprise, right?

Like, it's going to it's going to flood again and ruin your heating system and your electrical system.

So, yeah.

And on the same lane.

Sorry.

And, I mean, related to buildings, like, we're at a point where we have to think about heat and about summers and the fact that we're probably going to need more air conditioning in our buildings.

So, again, this opportunity I'd like we're decarbonizing, but also thinking, how can we prepare for these events and climate change?

Yeah, I'll just add kind of in the outside of the built world, the natural world, most of the work that I'm seeing and, you know, and partnered with people who are doing, it's it's both mitigation and adaptation at the same time.

They're they're certainly one in the same, for the majority of the, of the like, habitat restoration, for example, is is exactly both mitigation and adaptation, simultaneously.

And, you know, and what that means is we're, we're improving the resilience of this habitat for itself to continue to, to regenerate and be healthy and to be able to, produce the goods and services as an ecosystem that it is supposed to and in turn, helps the community surrounding it become more flood resilient or, more, at least more aware of what the system is naturally supposed to do and look like.

So it's it's in the natural world, it's most often times mitigation and adaptation are one in the same.

Let's talk about, getting involved.

Again, let's say you're someone sitting in the audience or at home and you're thinking, wow, I really have a lot of energy for this, but I don't know where to focus my energy and my town or my city, is there I'm thinking about low hanging fruit or something that could be done on a local level, that if your city or town has not done it, they should do it.

They should think and see, see if it's been done in their town.

I'm thinking about something in a building code, maybe something on a town energy council.

What would be something that, they should check to see if their town has taken care of this aspect of climate action.

Is coming to my mind.

I mean, I can give a few examples of things that we have in Hampton that I think I'm really proud of.

So maybe other towns or municipalities, folks in other areas could look to see if they have that.

And I'm not Hampton is not perfect.

We have we certainly have a lot of work to do, but some of the guiding documents that we have, for that work is our master plan.

We just updated that, our we have a, our Hampton Beach Village district is kind of like a quasi municipality.

They have their own master plan.

The Seabrook Hampton Estuary Alliance has an estuary management plan.

We are in the process of developing a natural resources inventory for the municipality.

The hazard mitigation plan.

So all of these documents are our guiding documents for how we approach our coastal resilience efforts.

And, you can certainly check to see if your municipality has these things to see, what their priorities are, how they're approaching, what they're using for their for their guidance for moving forward into the future.

There's many other options as well.

But, you know, that's it's kind of on my mind right now.

So I would I think it's a great way to check to see what's going on in your community.

That's I so thank you for mentioning that.

I blanked when that question was asked.

But now I'm thinking back in retrospect when the flooding hit.

Some of the towns in the Northeast Kingdom were impacted much worse than than other towns.

And in several of those towns, people didn't even know there was like an emergency management plan or a hazard mitigation plan or a flood mitigation plan, which many towns actually have.

So nobody knew where to go, where to find it.

Like, oh, actually, in this town, it was in this person's like filing cabinet and hadn't been updated since 1980, but they found it, you know, months later.

So that is a great place to start.

Like look around, ask your town officials like what exists.

Oh.

When was the last time that was updated?

Like, is this still valid?

Can we improve this?

Do we have one at all?

Does anybody know where it is?

Who's filing cabinet?

Is it in?

Yes.

I'll add to two things to, maybe interrogate your city or town about.

I think one would be.

Is there any person in this city whose job description include climate change?

And maybe if your town is not small or, it doesn't have the resources to have its own sustainability or environment or climate department, has climate been integrated into the departments that exist?

So you probably have a parks department or public works and all of those departments that do classic city services have so much influence on climate action at the city level.

So I would encourage people is like, is anyone thinking about these in my town on their daily responsibilities?

And then the other thing I would think about is, is there any way that the community engagement or oversight, over climate programs has been integrated or formalized in any way?

And I'll, I'll give an example of that again from Boston.

For for Berta, we have something pretty unique that it's called the Bird Oil Review Board.

And this is a nine member volunteer committee that is in charge, not of the development or planning of the policy, which is what it's if community engagement access is usually at the planning phase.

This is throughout the implementation of bird.

So as long as bird exceeds, there will be this review board of volunteers that are residents of Boston that will make very critical implementation decisions.

And six of those nine members have to be nominated by community based organizations and represent the interests of residents of Boston.

So in in that way, we guarantee that there is some sort of community oversight every year, no matter what happens with city staff, no matter the turnover within the department, there's going to be a community voice there.

So thinking about, is there any way that community engagement or oversight has been formalized in the way that climate work is done in your community?

I know that many people might be listening also, who are in a phase of life where they might not have a ton of room for activism, but there are a lot of different ways to do it.

Even very small, very basic stuff in your neighborhood.

Brianna, you were telling a story about something that happened in your neighborhood.

The night your neighbors were doing, to sort of help prepare each other.

Can you tell that?

So I live in a, in a in a floodplain.

And, flood now pretty often.

So there's a few things that have happened recently that have made it a lot easier for myself and my neighbors.

I live in a condominium, and my direct neighbor and I, we it's basically a duplex, so we share the building.

And the last flood, the water was rising really quickly, and, I didn't shut my electricity often times, so I had to a little risky, but turn off my, my electrical panel and very quickly panicked about whether or not my neighbor's electrical panel was off.

Because there was electrical fires are very common in this kind of flooding event.

In fact, there was one across the street while I was panicking about this.

So, I was able to call my neighbor and, you know, get into their home and shut off their electrical panel.

Everything was fine.

But, you know, back to that.

My first answer about of this whole panel about not finding yourself unprepared in a disaster situation.

And so having a plan with your neighbors like that ahead of time is, is can really be helpful in the long term, sharing knowledge with your neighbors about what they're doing to be prepared where they're parking their car.

I mean, this is hyper specific to this kind of situation, but I think can be applied to others as well.

But but just knowledge sharing with your hyper, hyper local community, with your direct neighbor, can really go a long way for, for mental sanity and preparedness in these events that can be really, frightening and make you feel very frazzled, literally sharing keys.

Yes.

Other.

I'm glad you brought up, morale.

Because this work is intense and especially living through the climate impacts at the same time.

Sustaining this work, do you have any examples of things that people have done that have made a big difference in morale, in terms of climate action?

Well, I think when you're hearing about neighbor to neighbor networks and knowing that when something happens to you, your neighbor is going to check in on you, it it extends beyond just climate crisis, right?

There are man made disasters and crises of all shapes and sizes.

And having that, network and that soft tissue in that connectivity to say, I haven't seen you out walking your dog like, are you okay?

Like, can I help?

Can I cook you a meal?

Like, that's mitigation.

That's preparation.

And, and I just I can't help but underscore this is relational work.

We're humans that are meant to live in relation ship with one another and our environment.

And when that is out of balance, or if that's that's not a reciprocal relationship or a relationship quite frankly, built on love, then you're going to feel it.

And those crises are going to be the actual crisis rather than a road bump.

So.

I would say, something that brings me hope a lot is that during my PhD, I had the privilege to interact with a lot of students that are currently doing their undergrad degrees.

And, myself, when I was an undergrad, I did sustainable development engineering and was thinking about climate change all the time and about the environment.

But like, we weren't really thinking about justice in the way that the newer generations are talking about it.

And I've seen my students really not only come thinking about climate change, but knowing climate change is not impacting people in the same way.

What can we do?

And climate actions are also not neutral.

There's, ways in which we're trying to do a good thing for climate change, but actually we're also, harming people in different ways.

And now there there is like our baseline of people that are coming, you know, to the work for us now is we know that climate change is a human issue.

It's not only the scientific issue or math issue of like, if I put X number of solar panels and then everything's going to be fine, or if we just do these wind farm or if we just plant these number of trees, I think there's more and more of of an understanding of climate change as an issue of care and humanity as well.

Thank you so much.

This is a great place, I think, to wrap up, thank you to Brianna, Claudia and Corey for joining me today.

And thank you so much to our beautiful audience.

Joining us in the room.

Audience as well.