On this episode of Comes With the Territory.

In part two of our State of the Labor Union series, we sit with the representatives from the law enforcement unions in the Territory to discuss their challenges and issues.

Chief negotiator Joss Springette It also joins the discussion.

Plus, legislation to rename the North Intersection Bridge on Saint Thomas in honor of the late Wayne Fox.

Man, Adams has been vetoed.

Drawing sharp criticism from the bill's sponsor, Senator Alma Francis.

Heyliger We'll have more on the election system of the Virgin Islands has released its 2024 calendar, revealing that residents will elect delegates to the Constitutional Convention in the upcoming general election.

Will delve into the significance of this event and its implications for the territory.

And later, in a bold move to underscore the severity of the ongoing water crisis, Virgin Islands Housing Authority Executive Director Robert Graham has challenged local leaders to consume the brown water that plagues homes across the territory.

Joining this week's panel discussion to analyze these issues and more are Carver Farrow, organizer of the St Thomas St John's Central Labor Council, local radio talk show host Terry Thomas, and former Senate President Lucy Richards.

Comes with the territory.

Starts now.

Welcome to comes with the territory.

I'm Lesley Comissiong.

Unlike many government unions grappling with outdated wage contracts, the law enforcement supervisors union and the Police Benevolent Association have received all the new negotiated wages.

Yet challenges remain for their members.

For LESU members, fear of reprimand and punishment from superiors inhibit their ability to effectively manage their subordinates.

Additionally, lack of proper training and knowledge creates limitations in their performance.

Meanwhile, rank and file officers face critical challenges with equipment and vehicles.

A fleet of brand new police vehicles have sat idle in the property and procurement yard for months, highlighting the ongoing struggle to provide officers with a resources they need and impacting their ability to effectively serve and protect the community.

Our featured guests for this episode are Lieutenant Claudius Hippolyte, president of the Law Enforcement Supervisors Union, St Thomas St John District Officer Derrick Bougouneau President of the Police Benevolent Association.

St Thomas St John District, and Joss Springette Chief Negotiator for the Office of Collective Bargaining.

Welcome, everyone.

Thank you all for coming together on this show.

I really do appreciate that.

Now, the first question is for the LSU president.

Hippolyte, you've stated that there are some challenges that your union is facing right now.

So let's talk about what the priorities are for your unions, the goals that you would like to achieve.

And then let's also talk about some of those challenges that you're having.

For instance, you mentioned the fair managing without being reprimanded.

I'd like to delve into that a little bit.

Well, I could start by first talking about the contrast.

When you have to sit it with the LESU and the government of the Virgin Islands, the members are held to a high standard to live within those members.

Those rules and regulations.

But the government is never ridiculed or never punished when they violate those rules.

So it's like a double standard.

Specifically, which rules are you talking about?

Let's talk about the cars our contract have, where we drive cars.

For three and a half years.

We have had two cars for a very long time.

Now the cars are in good condition, so we don't mind driving them.

But the contract is clear.

After three and a half years, the cars supposed to be removed, a new one supposed to be put in place.

And what is the obstacle right now that are keeping the vehicles at property and procurement in the location and not being put into utilities?

Just the issue of the union here, again, we don't know.

We have not had a seat at the table to find out these issues.

So before we continue to dive into those issues, let's talk about the main goals and priorities for your union.

To put it all in a nutshell and to make it more simple.

Like I say, we would love the government to actually follow the contract that they sign as simple as it is, seeing the rules and regulations, the benefits, the grievances follow the contract to the tee and we should have no problem whatsoever.

I want to pass it along to you, Mr. Bougouneau You represent the Police Benevolent Association.

Similar question What are your goals and priorities and what are some of the challenges that your union is facing?

Some of the goals that we trying to set forth is for one, as you already mentioned, safety is one of a high priority, not having the proper equipment.

For instance, vehicles, communication, which is a big factor.

And those two risk item is a high priority again, because for us safety is is a priority, especially with recent events.

I can certainly understand that.

I saw that recently after there were some incidents where individuals in the community were shooting after officers I saw and I thought this was a wise step in the right direction that officers were patrolling together in mass.

Is that still happening?

Yes.

Fortunately, when we do have the proper amount of officers on shift at the time that we get the opportunity to patrol in masses but lack of the department having officers that can sometimes hinder the the safety of officers patrolling by themself.

So that's another big factor that we tend to pressure to department on, which is hiring new officers, where it will help what those who already have now, where we can patrol the streets with additional officers or at least two individual two officers together, they are instances where they are one officer working in one zone or they are two officers covering both zones, whereas at town and country and due to the lack of personnel, it's another big safety issue and has it for those personnel issues have been persistent for several years.

They didn't just pop up overnight and in fact, you know, negotiator Springette I'm going to come to you with we have personnel challenges throughout the entire government and your office and some of the issues that have been voiced on this show by some of the labor unions.

In reading your testimony for the Budget Committee before the legislature is it's not rocket science.

It's clear that A, your office needs additional funding and additional staff.

And so let's talk about that and let's talk share with the community, if you don't mind, about the amount of unions that are members that work for the government of the Virgin Islands and how many have collective bargaining agreements that are current.

Okay.

To start, we have 15 unions that represent employees in government and of those in those 15 unions, as a total of 35 bargaining units.

So you could consider bargaining units like a division within our department.

We have about 12 of those that are current and then about eight are currently in negotiations and the others are expired.

And what are some of the challenges that your office is facing?

I noted that you have one attorney.

Correct.

And I think last year you had 270 grievance cases.

Overall, we have 270 pending cases.

That covers appeals of grievances, court cases, appeals cases before the probe, cases before the EEOC and the like.

And so it's untenable for one individual.

And definitely those cases I was once an attorney at OCB and I was responsible for 350 cases at one time.

Let me ask you something.

In a perfect world, if you could wave a magic wand, how many attorneys do you think it would take to properly serve as your office?

Six, six attorneys, and we're dealing with one right now.

Correct.

I'm going to come back to you in a second, but I'm going to go back to the LESU had.

Have you had any challenges that you've encountered in bargaining for your contract?

And then how is the government responded to the challenges that you mentioned earlier?

Well, we haven't had any sit down with the government as yet.

You know, I've taken over during the summer with my new team and we eager to actually sit down and have conversation and reference the negotiations up to today.

We don't know what day we're going to have to negotiate a contract.

We still clueless, but we go work it out right here in a little bit.

But so in terms of have you voiced that when anybody and what is the response been like?

Well, everyone knew we exist.

And matter of fact, I went to collective bargaining the other day to file a case in arbitration.

I want to put this on the record.

I can't remember the last time the LSU had an arbitration case, but you just heard about the shortages there in her office.

So what's your reaction to hearing that live?

I mean, one attorney for 270 cases, if you want a case adjudicated properly, you want an attorney to pay the proper time and attention deserve.

Right.

You think that's a feasible situation?

I mean, you're dealing with law enforcement shortages, personnel challenges yourself.

You know what, that what happens as a result.

So, I mean, it looks like we have a systematic issue here all around.

But it comes back to what I said before.

The government signed a contract and they need to live up to that contract.

In that contract to have an arbitration timelines in place as well.

And the government has failed to meet this arbitration.

I have an officer who had a case for over 15 years in arbitration.

Wow.

15 years is almost a career in policing.

Yeah, so are we acts we act for one thing.

You sign a contract, live up to the contract.

That's the union's job.

One of the things that you've asked for or in testimony to the legislature is the expansion of Act 4440.

And you are suggesting that the governor have the ability to grant temporary increases while contracts are being negotiated.

Explain what you see taking place if that were to happen.

Well, definitely the amount of money appropriated by the Senate for salary increases would be able to go a further go beyond the contracts that are negotiated.

What we have currently are contracts that expired as far back as 2007.

And currently the legislature approves an appropriation of about 3 to 4% of the total personnel costs for the government for wage adjustments, that is for negotiated contracts that are already negotiated and those that I may negotiate during that fiscal year.

If the governor were allowed to grant additional increases beyond a negotiated contracts pending negotiations, we could provide some relief to the employees in a temporary fashion until the contracts are negotiated.

I understand that some unions are in agreement with that.

I've had conversations with at least five unions so far on how they would feel about just extending the current contract until we can get to a negotiation, because I know that passing a bill will take some time.

And out of the five unions, LESU attorney I spoke to as well four of the unions agreed.

And so there's some traction there.

However, that means that unless the unions agree to it, then there may be some employees that wait for a long time.

You say 27 just now.

There's the old days.

There's one contract that is has not been negotiated since the early 2000.

I want to come back to you, Mr..

But we know we talked about personnel challenges, and I think that's at the heart of this entire conversation that and what I see is a failure communication, as identified on our last show with some of the unions represented there.

If you could wave a magic wand to help increase the amount of police officers that are retained and recruited, what would it take to make that happen?

Why are we not able to hire officers?

Well, as an officer who works at the training academy, I'm one of the instructors down there.

Some of the issues that I have seen with hiring, most of the personnel who I would say fill out the application for the job, a lot of them are either outside the perimeter as far as weight in the campus, certain physical, physical, or the pet tests or the psychological tests.

Those are one of the biggest challenges we have in as far as recruitment.

Also, I think the wage in question can be increased a little bit where we can get some more officers into the Department of Personnel into the department, because let me stop you right there real quickly.

What recruitment efforts take place currently?

What does the department do to entice individuals beyond the advertising and the marketing that we've heard?

Are there programs where folks go into the schools or is there active recruitment in JROTC programs or civil air patrol programs or Cub Scouts, anybody with some type of quasi military training?

Do we do that now?

Not to my knowledge.

I know there there were one in St. Thomas, and there are another recruit on Saint Croix.

But as far as the job or where do they go, who they speak to with the union, the PBA has no knowledge as far as what they're actions are when they are speaking to people or the personnel for to be recruited.

Let me ask you something, Mr. Hippolyte Same question.

What do you think we could be doing to get more officers on the force?

Because I'm just, you know, I don't have any documented evidence, but a couple of years ago, the government of the Virgin Islands publish salaries of its all their employees and police officers were some of the best compensated employees in the government of the Virgin Islands.

There were senior officers that made more money than the governor of the Virgin Islands taking into account overtime, etc.

That's fairly attractive for most people.

Why is it we can't get officers?

I'm going to answer the question in two parts.

Okay.

First one, I'm going to talk about a salary.

These officers sacrifice their family, tying to keep people safe.

Absolutely.

When you sign up for when you decide, I agree.

So the public shouldn't feel bad to compensate someone for giving up a burden.

It's not a matter of feeling bad.

It's just a fact they are compensated.

Well, you I mean, if I signed up to be a janitor at, you know, that's what I signed up for.

I get the pay for a janitor.

But the job requires putting your life on the line.

And that's a decision.

That individual.

We will put a gun to anybody's end to do it.

You sign up, you agree to do it.

It comes with the territory as the show is name.

But salaries aside, why are we able to recruit officers and retain them?

Because I know a lot of officers come into the force, get trained and then move on to departments off island.

Being a police officer as a career and we know it is a very tedious career, but we don't negotiate contracts ever on time and they take a very long time to change wages.

So where we have some civilian staff in VIP that is making $45,000 and we have police officers that is making 40 So if I could make 5000 as a civilian, why would I make $40,000 a police?

It makes no sense and risk my life working holidays, work at night gets shot at.

No, no one wants to do it.

I think the issue is the public perception of police officers has changed over the years.

When I was a little boy, police officers was looked at, looked up to, and it was appreciated.

We are no longer appreciated anymore.

It's not a lucrative job in terms of people going to like you for being a cop.

It doesn't work that way anymore.

That's an interesting point and I think that we only have 5 minutes left.

By the way, we could always talk about things.

That's why I asked specifically about the type of recruiting and how we are building the reputation of the police department, especially with the next generation, because I think that's where it starts.

I mean, I think we all could go back to when we were at school, police officers visiting our classrooms and firemen visiting our classrooms.

I got into politics because of a visit from Alexander Farrelly to my sixth grade class.

It happens.

I mean, a whole career decision was made on my part because of one simple visit, and I think we could be influencing the next generation of officers if we started to do more of that.

That's just a suggestion.

However, I'm going to come back to you negotiators to bring it.

What are some of the popular misconceptions surrounding your office that you'd like to address publicly?

I'm sure I'll give you two.

The first one is that the Office of Collective Bargaining only negotiates contracts.

Our office supports over 30 agencies and entities within the government, represents them and negotiates on their behalf.

When I say support those individuals, those agencies contact us on an almost daily basis to discuss whether disciplinary issues, organizational, operational planning and the like.

We represent them.

As you mentioned, we have over 270 cases, so we represent them in almost every forum.

In my experience, we've gone as far as the US Supreme Court as again, we also negotiate a number of contracts.

Over the last four years, my office has negotiated about 20 contracts, some of them twice, and we continue to not only represent the government, but in our action of representing the government.

We're looking out for the best interests of the employees as well by ensuring, for example, our office also reviews the termination packages for unionized employees before they're sent to the governor for his approval.

I need to ensure that when an agency recommends termination that they have followed due process, giving the opportunity for the employee to respond, comply with the CBA and so forth before it proceeds.

So there's this misconception that we're only negotiating and we're only looking out for the government.

The other misconception is that OCB determines how much each union will receive in their salary increases.

Yeah, it all starts at the legislature.

Yes, the legislature has to appropriate those funds.

They must first identify those funds.

It is their responsibility to identify these revenues first.

Then they appropriate it to the central government.

And based on those revenues, we then determine how much can each agency receive.

Because remember, it's not just salaries.

That's one huge expense.

Sure.

But just like your household, you have electricity.

You have fringe benefits that continue to claim.

Mind you, I thank the legislature for questioning that additional increase on their insurance over the first five years or so.

However, expenses are going up.

Absolutely.

The contracts that we have with various vendors, it has increased in some instances three times the amount in prior years.

So while we do want to ensure, as a matter of fact, the governor's mission is to improve the lives of the residents and visitors alike.

And of course, we do that through negotiating contracts and protecting their rights.

However, it does cost.

We only have about 30 seconds, so I'd like to give you an opportunity to share anything with the community you think they should know about your union and the situation we talked about today.

Oh, thank you.

We have some great officers out there.

And by all means, when you see an officer working hard with the officer, tell him thank you.

Because why you at sleep or why you sleep in?

We have to protect it.

Absolutely.

And not just protecting you, but we also we save lives.

We you know, we we can be considered doctors, we consider rescuers.

We consider attorneys.

We consider the bad guys.

So we are everything.

But at least thank the officers for the hard work they are doing out there.

I can appreciate that same question to you, Mr. Hippol I would just like the public to know that the LESU whose responsibility in terms of management, making sure that the personnel is where it needs to be for your safety.

And we still protect the government interests as well, because we are the first person that stops the liability going to the government.

That's what I wanted to say.

I can appreciate that.

Thank you all for coming in.

I'd love to have you back on the show in the future.

Coming up, we'll hear from this week's power panel.

But first, a quick look at the politically charged topics that will fuel their discussion.

The Wayne Facts man Adams Bridge, a proposed name for the bridge at the northern intersection on Saint Thomas, faced a recent setback when a resolution unanimously approved by the 35th Legislature was vetoed by the executive branch.

The resolution sought to paint posthumous tribute to Wayne Facts Man Adams, a historian, community activist and perennial Senate candidate Governor Albert Bryan Jr.

In a press release announcing the veto challenge the appropriateness of naming a bridge after Facts man, he emphasized the tradition of naming roads, buildings and bridges has typically been reserved for notable elected officials and renowned public servants, citing examples such as Ambassador Terence E TODMAN and Senator Sidney Lee, referring to the veto bill, number 350014 as an egregious and pretentious decision, Senator Alma Francis Heyliger urged her colleagues to override the governor's veto in an interview with WTJX’s Radio News Feed, Francis Heyliger said, I am not one to deal with this individuals.

But his response was a kick in the face and the guts of the many voting Virgin Islanders and individuals that go to the polls to vote for people such as himself.

So for him to turn around and say that the average person is not worthy to get an honor of naming our bridge after them because they're not a public servant or elected official, is disrespectful Governor Bryan wielded his veto power not only on bill number 350014, but also on an act amending the Virgin Islands Water and Power Authority to grant a six month monthly water bill abatement to customers in areas with unsatisfactory levels of lead and copper.

The proposed relief, amounting to 50% of the average water bill for May through October 2023, was dismissed by the governor due to concerns about potential violations of WAPA’s obligations to lenders, deeming it an unfunded mandate in lieu of the vetoed bill.

Governor Bryan put forth and alternative plan of flat bill credit of $25 per month per customer for the next six months.

This resolution hinges on the recommended flushing of TAPS for 5 minutes, three times daily in affected areas.

Furthermore, Governor Bryan rejected Bill number 350201, which mandated owners and operators of public water systems to conduct annual monitoring, testing and analysis of lead and copper content.

Senator Francis Heyliger, the sponsor of both bills, criticized the vetoes as a startling deficiency in leadership.

Senator Francis Heyliger honed in on the government's transmittal letter to the legislature that detailed actions on the vetoes and other bills.

The transmittal letter bore the signature of Acting Governor Kevin McCurdy, and McCurdy signed the approve bills into law.

McCurdy, the finance commissioner nominee, assumed the role of acting governor because Governor Bryan and Lieutenant Governor Roach were out of the territory.

Senator Francis Heyliger.

questioned the legality and appropriateness of a non sworn member of the cabinet, assuming the responsibilities of the highest office.

She said she had requested a legal opinion on the constitutional and legal implications of an acting governor's actions, especially when they hold a position outside the elected and sworn members of the cabinet.

The Revised Organic Act states that if the governor and lieutenant governor are temporarily absent, the powers of the governor shall be exercised as acting governor by such person as the laws of the Virgin Islands may prescribe.

The line of succession starts with the Commissioner of Finance, but does not specify whether the person must have been confirmed by the legislature.

Delegates to the sixth Constitutional Convention will be elected in the 2024 general election, according to the recently released 2024 calendar by the election system of the Virgin Islands.

Seven delegates will be elected from the Saint Croix District.

Seven delegates will be elected from the Saint Thomas district and one delegate will be elected from Saint John to serve on the sixth Constitutional Convention.

Governor Bryan signed into law in January an act to establish and fund a sixth Constitutional convention of the Virgin Islands.

The convention will be responsible for either adopting a new constitution using the fifth constitutional draft or adapting the revised Organic Act as part of the territory's Constitution.

Per act number 8734 and its subsequent amendment, the Convention is to convene in January 2025 and produce a proposed constitution by October 2025.

The Constitution must be approved by the Governor, the United States Congress, and passed by the United States President.

The proposed constitution will be the subject of a binding referendum in November 2026.

If approved by voters, the constitution will become effective on March 31st, 2027. you want to try mines and taste it for me?

I'm not sure where you got that Senator This is your water.

That's WAPA water.

If you won't drink it, why tell my people they should drink it?

Why?

Tell them that it is safe.

Echoing Senator Franklyn Johnson's call for action, Virgin Islands Housing Authority Executive Director Robert Graham has challenged Smith and other local leaders to consume the brown water coming from the facets of homes across the territory.

Unless someone from the command center or the governor or the WAPA CEO is willing to drink the brown water on camera, it is now resolved in the minds of residents.

And I would think that any rational parent would not allow their child to drink their groundwater.

And so there needs to be more attention focused on that issue as opposed to the the the the LED, which is a serious issue.

But it certainly needs to be covered because even if the testing is complete, the issue of the brown water will continue because of the corrosiveness that's inside the pipes.

In a recent Virgin Islands Housing Authority board meeting, Graham insisted the territory's unified command center take the years long water discoloration issue as seriously as it did the discovery of potential lead and copper contamination in the potable water distribution system on Saint Croix.

He also called for the command center to ensure that it distinguishes for the benefit of the public between water that may be tainted with lead and copper versus the discolored water that has been attributed to corrosion in metal pipes.

Joining me to help unpack these issues that you just saw to share their insights and the discussion on the labor unions, we just have we have with us in studio popular WSTA radio hos Terence Thomas and Carver Pharaoh, organizer of the Central Labor Council, Saint Thomas, Saint John.

And joining us virtually from our Saint Croix studio is former Senate President C Richards.

Welcome to everyone.

Good evening.

I'm going to start with you, Mr. Farrell.

Our first question is going to go in the direction of the discussion we just had with the labor unions.

You're currently trying to revive the Central Label Council.

Explain to our viewers exactly what the Sexual Labor Council is and how it would help the situations that we just heard discuss on the panel.

Good evening and thanks for having me here.

The Central Labor Council, if you can think of an umbrella and you have people coming under it.

Well, this is how the Central Labor Council is viewed.

Is it is the organization where you bring all of the unions together.

And that's what we're trying to do to unite the unions and to stop our help.

What you just heard from the two offices here.

Negotiation per perm have close to 100 unsolved cases, and that's when it had an attorney and a director the attorney passed.

There is no attorney.

And you have an acting director, as you heard sometime in previous years before there is a decision.

This is not justice for the people of the Virgin Islands.

Attorney Springette.

I'm going to nominate her for Governor Next time She was very good.

She is really, really good.

And she believes not only in the government management, but she also believes in the people in the unions.

Okay.

And she really tried, but let's talk about arbitration cases.

Well, before we get to that, we can dive in a little bit more.

But I want to go to Saint Croix and ask Senate President Usie Richards a question because he has a large depth and breath of experience based on the discussion that you heard Senator Richards and the opinions discussed on the Office of Collective Bargaining, what do you think needs to happen to right the ship?

Well, good evening to you, Leslie, and fellow guests, panelists who were there.

Let me first say, I enjoy listening to the discussion with the three individuals prior to our commentary that we'll be having here.

This evening.

My initial suggestion that there needs to be a thorough overhaul of the in the manner in which we structure the negotiations and dealing with unions that represent government employees and more importantly, the manner in which the government to the Office of Collective Bargaining can represent the government of the Virgin Islands.

I was particularly particularly surprised to hear that they're working with one attorney and the head of the Office of Collective Bargaining and dealing with so many different cases.

If we are serious about on dealing with labor issues through our unions that represent them, then we have to properly fund support and structure the Office of Collective Bargaining and provide an opportunity for them to work with the union to meet the needs of government employees.

From a nuts and bolts perspective.

There's a common theme we're hearing, and this is a common theme, Terry, as a radio talk show host, I know you've heard over the years we don't seem to be preparing the youth that we educate with the largest budget of the government of the Virgin Islands to handle the positions that will guide us in the right direction for the future, whether it's police, health engineers.

The list goes on and on and on.

Educators shortages everywhere.

How do we stop this?

Well, I think the challenge that the U.S. Virgin Islands government has had for the last 30 years is one of succession planning.

People in my age group, you know, those of us in the mid-fifties and slightly older, we are now in a position where we're making plans to retire.

Right.

However, because we haven't put in place or failed to put in place good succession planning, the young people that we would like to see assume the leadership positions that are going to become.

Many of them are not here.

They're away.

I had a discussion with some coworkers a couple of days ago who are in their thirties, early forties, and you know, a lot of them tell you, listen, if things don't go my way and by their way, they just don't mean jobs.

But opportunities are right in terms of earning more, but even more importantly, being able to start a family and have a family here.

Homeownership, those kind of things.

They're leaving.

Right.

I had a discussion with a young lady who's a nurse and she attended.

I graduated from the UVI Nursing program, which happens to be one of the best on the Eastern.

Yeah, absolutely.

One of the best nursing programs in the country.

Correct.

And she said what made her move wasn't the fact that she couldn't make money here, but she going to own a home here.

Right.

So the challenge that we have is putting in place a succession plan for young people coming, coming up the line.

So we need to I guess you want to encourage invigorate these young people to see themselves as leaders.

That's a great right because like when I was coming out of college, I never told myself, well, I'm not staying here.

I'm leaving.

I was like, okay, I'm going to start working.

And at some point I'm going to assume a position that is in line with what I want to do.

Let me interrupt you for a second and go back to Mr. Farrel You were you started to mention arbitration.

I do want to get back to that because I think people hear that and just for our community.

Let's talk about what that process is like with the unions.

I want to do some educating here.

Okay.

It starts with a grievance and many of the managers believe a grievance is a bad thing, but it's a good thing.

You don't see everybody fighting in the studio.

And that's because we have the grievance, which is the only process in order to resolve problems.

If the grievances file and it's not resolve, it keeps going up until we file a demand in arbitration.

When that happens and you have the arbitration, the arbitrator will rule.

This is a third person no interest.

And you decide, here's a case, decides it, rules on it and it's binding.

Okay.

Okay.

And so as far as we're concerned, that's great.

But guess what?

As attorneys spring it said there is only one attorney working on cancellation.

And that's what, 200 and some.

We impossible.

We had an case and we won the arbitration.

Management took it to court.

And guess what?

It's been 15 years.

Wow.

One of our members have died waiting for their decision.

Yeah.

And I'm only 17 years old.

We're going to go over to Croix to Senator petitions.

The governor recently vetoed some bills, and there's been a lot of ire.

I think the most the one we've heard the most emotional response from people about was naming the bridge.

in nadir that for a long time was known as the bridge to nowhere.

After Wayne “Facts Man” Adams And there's you know class has been called into the conversation I think poorly.

So I don't think it's necessarily a class issue.

But what are your thoughts on that whole situation?

And if you were in the Virgin Islands legislature right now, would you have voted affirmatively on the bill?

I think the the context on needs to be clearly understood.

And the fact that class, according to you, has been called into the discussion.

I think that issue was raised in the governor's vetoes message.

I think that there are individuals in the community who are in fact honored, recognized and have certain actions taken to name things after them.

Outside of them being in elected position or some position that is well known and structured within the political affairs of a government, whether locally or federally.

A good example of that and right there on the island, as in Thomas, is we have the Nicholas Daddy Friday drive.

Are we going to question his contributions to the territory because he was not an elected official or because he did not hold a public office?

I think we welcome his contributions.

The issue, I believe, is the the the the people need to have an opportunity to recognize the contributions of individuals who are common, just like them in this community.

And if they the legislature decided that in the majority that this is something they wanted to do on behalf of our Wayne “Facts Man” Adams, I think is something that should be considered and acted upon.

And I do believe coming soon, they may be overwriting that legislation on specifically on the basis of the language that was transmitted in the governor's transmittal letter.

Mr. Thomas, what do you think about the issue?

I agree with the analysis that Senator Richard just made in reading the content and context of the governor's veto message.

It came off as being somewhat aloof, in my opinion, because he cited instances where public structures and roadways, according to what he wrote, were named after people who are either elected to office or held prominent positions in the community.

And that's not the case.

I mean, Senator Richard's referred to Nicholas, right?

Do we have the Milo Francis Drive the Nardo Trotman drive.

I mean, we could go on and on.

We even have things named after people that.

Well, let me ask you something real quick.

Sorry to interrupt, but for instance, in the Nicholas Friday first person job, I guess as many in his field.

Okay.

And I'm looking for your specific.

As many road marches as he had, which he set a record.

Right.

Him in his bad.

You look at somebody like Julian Jackson, not elected, but is a boxing hall of Famer internationally known, multiple time world three time world champion who held different belts.

Leonardo Trotman in his field.

Again, high, high level of achievement.

If you were supposed to put it into a sentence, what would you phrase the achievement of Mr. Adams being?

Okay.

Let me go back a little bit, first of all, to the impetus for this naming, though.

Did not average started at the grassroots level?

Right.

A community of people felt after Wayne passed that given his involvement in social activism and other things in the community, action should be taken.

And that was one of the spots use that catches rides right away.

And so I actually know the gentleman who created it saying, That's up on the bridge.

I don't know if it's still there.

Uh huh.

That started.

And then it's my understanding that a petition went around and, you know, several hundred, maybe 8000 or so people signed it and it went to the legislature where I think Senator Francis Heyliger was the prime sponsor.

You ask about what did Wayne do?

In speaking to some classmates and friends of mine material that we created through a company he created called The historic institute, is being used in public schools to teach Virgin Islands history.

We don't know that because you don't hear it being mentioned.

But educators would tell you that some of the research materials that he did are available at the UVI library.

One of the most prominent things that Wayne did, not just for us here in the Territory, but for the wider Caribbean, was he almost single handedly led the fight against France, shipping nuclear waste to Japan through the Caribbean basin?

Right.

We went before the United Nations our people on notice to make their case, and then other people signed on with him.

Right.

When went to countries throughout the Caribbean to rally support for fighting is I think that is a very important source of very valid points.

Mr. Farrel, your opinion on the topic?

I must agree with Senator Richards and I just have been educated because a lot of things that Terry has said I didn't know.

So, you know, I'm inclined to believe that the bridge really should be named after Wayne “Facts Man” Adams.

Thank you, Senator.

Richards, we're going to come back to you.

One of the other items that the governor vetoed was water relief for bills for customers in the areas that are affected by the lead and copper content in the water on Saint Croix.

Have you had a chance to delve through that veto and what do you think about how it was handled?

You have me sitting over here smiling after you because you keep saying what the governor's veto.

Well, as far as I understood and what I've read, the governor aint veto nothing it has been vetoed by the person that we go get to that part of the show.

My jumping ahead finance, I know about.

But but but me and and your panelists over there, we're here responding to to the governor's action and and the transmittal letter.

But I read the transmittal letter and it is signed by this individual.

So, anyway, to get to the crux of the question that you ask, I looked at both bills that were vetoed by the governor, the the one in regards to the the the abatement.

I have some concerns over that.

I understood the members of the legislature, the sponsors.

And Alma Francis Heyliger equating it $25 to every house small in comparison to abatement where you may have a larger household of individuals that utilize the potable water system.

And I'm in fact paying more for the water than a person that lives alone and also utilize the potable water.

And it's more long lasting.

What I first saw out of it is that the governor and I understand the governor's position is trying to protect the economic viability of the water and power authority.

But this same water and power authority benefited from federal funds when they were supposedly to receive money from the Virgin Islands government, federal funds to assist in paying down the electrical and water bills over a period of time.

For some residential households throughout the Territory.

Water collected from the local government and use monies went to local government for households that wasn't receiving electrical services or public potable water services for for two years.

So they benefited from that.

And so now they should give some consideration to the residents that are in fact being affected by this potable water discoloration and contamination.

And now for what you were just discussing, Kevin McCurdy is now the nominee for the Department of Finance, Mr. Thomas, and he was the individual whose signature was on the veto and delivered the veto message.

The Organic Act is unclear, and none of us or our attorneys, but from a legal perspective, do you think that his veto holds any legally binding power?

And if you think there was a if a legal challenge was made, what do you think would be the case?

It's interesting that because I was speaking to someone who works in the administration and they told me that they had vetted his signing of these transmittal letters through the attorney or Government House and the attorney general based on, like you said, based on what's in the Organic Act, it's basically silent as to what the provisions are.

Right.

I think the prescription in the Organic Act is an acting person can only act for 180 days.

I think that's where the complexity is going to come in, because that 180 days has to me, that provision is made for that person to make official decisions in that six month window.

Does that official decision authority extend to the acting commissioner of finance when he or she is acting governor?

That's going to be the discretion, really, when it hits the court, if it does hit the court.

Same question to you, Mr. Richards.

If if this were to go before a court, what do you think?

How do you think the case would be adjudicated?

And what do you think about the legality of an active acting member of the governor's cabinet signing a legislation?

I believe the legislature should take action to get some clarity.

And if, in fact, on that it is a silent and allowed in the court, should has the authority to make a decision.

There's a distinction in my mind between a nominee and a designee.

Mr. McCurdy is a nominee for commissioner for the Department of Finance.

He can become a designee once reviewed by the Rules Committee and approved by the legislature.

And there's a reason why it is a distinct difference between nominee and designee.

The designee shows that this has some approval by the people representatives, the 15 members of the legislature voting in a majority.

And I had I said if I was sitting to see the governor, I would not take the chance of having a person who is merely a nominee holding on to the position of acting governor.

And, you know, there is someone that should act in that position after the commissioner of finance who has already been approved by the legislature.

I think the checks and balances issue.

Well, I'm so glad you brought up that distinction, because there's no question that the governor, lieutenant governor, is going to be outside of the territory in the future.

We've never had any legal clarity on this issue.

And I think there is the possibility that this could happen again.

Mr. Farrel, any thoughts?

And if you were a lawyer going to court, how would you argue the case?

He's the nominee, and I feel as though he should not have been named.

And that's as far as I'm going to go.

I agree with Senator Richards.

The next person should have been named acting governor.

As he said, that person have been approved by the legislature and and and this person is only a nominee, not their designee.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That distinction is very crucial.

And the points that Mr. Richards made was very important.

We saw in the video package leading up to our conversation the Virgin Islands housing Authorities executive director Robert Graham challenging our leaders.

Drink the brown water in Saint Croix.

What do you think about that, Mr. Farrell?

I really didn't read it.

Excuse me?

I really didn't read what was said, and so I'm not going to comment on it right now because I really don't know much about it.

Not a problem.

I'm sure you've had conversations.

Yes.

Let me ask you, if you were to give the government agreed as to how they've handled the issue once inquiry, what would that grade be?

Oh, that's a pretty tricky question.

I think in terms of their efforts to address the problem, I'd say probably a C plus B minus from the standpoint that this isn't a problem that cropped up overnight.

This is something that's been manifesting itself for a long time from the time we were kids.

Right.

You saw videos of the water infrastructure where they put a camera in their pipes.

Some of these pipes are like 60 years old in terms of how they've dealt with it.

From a public relations standpoint.

I think they get like a D, simply because I think it's been lost.

To me, it comes across like, okay, we know we have this problem, but we're going to take these steps like flushing pipes and those kind of things to see if we can address it.

I was talking to my brother, who's a chemist, and the first thing he asked me was, how frequent were they doing these tests?

Right.

Because he's like, if you are testing on a regular basis, you should have some benchmark to say, okay, the water was good in April and then six months later led and copper started.

The tests were only required once every three years.

To me, that's not good enough, considering some of the other issues over here in the st. thomas st john.

district when we switched from the IDD plants to using desalinization, we had brown water for quite a long time, if you recall.

Yes, because they said the chemistry of the water change, things in the pipes.

So from then to me, we should have started taking more proactive actions to ensure that the delivery of quality water to residents was there.

Right, lead and copper are Some serious things we all know about Flint, Michigan, and what has happened there.

And it seems as if it's just a repeat of things that are just are not untenable.

Right.

Just a segue real quick.

We're coming back to the acting governor.

I think this is 2023.

Leslie.

Yeah, we need to do away with that.

The president travels the whole world.

Yup.

And he's still the president.

Well, you're leading into my next topic is like you all got.

See, I had vision today because I was going to go to the sixth Constitutional Convention, and I want to start with Mr. Richards on Saint Croix.

We are now officially, I guess, since the legislature has passed the legislation, I guess the funding is there.

And now that the Board of Elections has released their official candidate, we're going to be voting for delegates to the six Constitutional convention.

I want your take on how the fifth ended some of the debate that's going on in the community right now as to the viability of that.

And I believe that we were told that a, we have the ability voters will have the choice of once a constitution is passed, whether we go with the fifth, go with the sixth or adopt the Virgin Islands.

The revised act as our Constitution.

Let me hear your take on this new dynamic.

Well, I guess it's not new, but it's a reintroduced dynamic that we're going to be dealing with.

We could call it new because the the fifth Constitution, I think, goes back all the way to 2010.

And I can recall, because then I serve as the minority leader of the 28th legislature, and I testified before the House subcommittee on the subject matter of the Constitution that was before them.

I am pleased to see that some progress has been made to revitalize this particular issue, to put it on the table, to allow the people to elect representatives, to bring forward a constitution.

And I only got a little bit scared.

I don't know.

Lesley if that was just Mrs. Comissiong if that was just a statement on your own or that is something that's written in the bill.

And you made the statement that the document was developed by the sixth Constitutional Convention should be approved by the governor prior to it being submitted to the US government.

That was a big issue during the fifth Constitutional Convention because the then Governor De Jongh attempted to hold the document within Government House and a court had to issue a ruling and an order that mandated that Governor De Jongh transmit the document because he was just the transmitter person, but not one that has to give approval or disapproval to the content of the document created by the fifth Constitutional Convention.

So I'm going to go back and look at the bill.

I then see that the governor has to approve it.

I think he's the official transmitter.

But if it says that the governor has to approve it, then we really headed down a dead end road.

Very interesting take.

Real quickly, we only have about 2 minutes left on to show your take on the next Constitution, Mr. Thomas.

I you know, after having discussions with people like Dr. Malik Sekou I think we've gotten to a point where it's like a do or die.

And I am in favor of adopting the revised Organic Act as a base for us to start.

If you take a look at the history of all the constitutional conventions, there have been just a few sticking points.

One, the definition of who a native Virgin Islands is and then what prescription will be made to people who fall under that banner.

For example, exemption from certain taxes, certain privileges, for example, being able to run for elected office, so on and so forth.

Let me get you in real quickly.

Six Constitutional Convention.

Oh, I'm in favor of the Organic Act.

Vised also is fair is nondiscriminatory in my book.

But doing the fifth, as Terry said, you know, that was things that I couldn't swallow.

I am not a native virgin.

I'm not a native Virgin Islander.

And I felt discriminated against just as and I'm from the South, so I know about discriminate and racial discrimination.

So discrimination in the form, as far as I'm concerned, is illegal and should not happen.

Well, guess what?

VI in Roman numerals is six.

Or maybe this six one is to be the right roll of the dice.

That's all we have for this show for you today.

Be sure to tune in next Sunday at 1 p.m. for an all new episode of Comes With the Territory.

In the meantime, for your news updates, tune into WTJX’s News Feed on weekdays at 5 p.m. on 93.1 FM or download our WTJX App Im Lesley Comissiong for all of here at WTJX Channel 12.

Have a great Sunday.