>>Voice Over>> You're watching the Basin PBS Town Hall.

Communicating with Civility in 2025.

Live from the Basin PBS Anwar Family Studio.

>>Mary Kate>> What does it mean to communicate in 2025?

How do we navigate communicating with someone who has a different opinion or experience than you?

And how do we do this respectfully?

Communicating with civility and respect involves more than just politeness.

It may mean actively listening to understand others perspectives, speaking calmly, refraining from insults or derogatory language.

We need to build common ground and foster productive dialog even when our opinions differ.

It's also important to be mindful of body language and to use inclusive language.

I'm Mary Kate Hamilton, and I'm honored to be hosting tonight's program, Communicating with Civility in 2025 right here on Basin PBS.

We're coming to you live from the Anwar Family studio.

We're thrilled to have a small studio audience and have all of you, our Basin PBS supporters, watching at home on channel 13 or 36.

Tonight, we'll have an honest conversation with leaders from our community on how we can improve communication within our own community.

As we all know it starts with us.

Tonight, I'd like to introduce our panel, Christine Foreman, Denise Norman, Reverend and Doctor Don Weaks, Pastor Steve Shorr, and Reverend Steve Brooks.

We've got a lot of conversation to have here tonight.

But before we do so, I want to give the audience an idea of who you each are.

So if you all can go around and just tell me a little bit about yourselves, what you do and um your purpose here tonight.

Christine, we'll start with you.

>>Christine>> Great.

Um, so I'm a lifelong Midlander, a wife, a mother of three, a community advocate, an education advocate, and I was recently elected to the board of trustees for Midland College.

- Denise.

<<Denise>> My name is um, Denise Norman.

I'm originally from Monahans, Texas.

I've been in Midland for ten years now.

Um, my husband is from here.

Um, I work in oil and gas.

I've been doing that for 12 years.

Um, I have two sons.

And I do I do a lot of volunteering in the community, and I'm very grateful to be here today.

- Thanks.

Denise.

Dawn <<Dawn>> Hi.

I'm Dawn Weaks, and I'm my 12th year of serving as a pastor at Connection Christian Church in Odessa.

Along with my husband, Joe, we have two grown kids, and I love this community and hope for us to continue to grow together in finding common ground.

- Steve, <<Steve>> I'm Steve Shorr and I am married to Kathy for 39 years, and we have two grown children and five grandchildren.

And I am pastor at First Presbyterian Church and have been there for 21 years now.

- And our other Steve.

<<Steve>> Yeah.

Steve Brooks, um been in Midland, two different stints for ten years, about ten years total.

Uh, my wife's name is Elena, and we have six children.

Two of them are still at home with us.

And, uh I am one of the pastors at First Methodist Church, uh right here in Midland.

- Great.

All right.

Thanks again, everyone, for being here tonight.

I'm so excited that we have such, a panel with diverse opinions, thoughts and experience levels, too.

Um, let's get right into it.

So having convictions and a strong belief system is important.

And it has been throughout history.

It's not a bad thing to have a strong moral compass, but as our world becomes increasingly divided.

How can we each stay strong in our convictions while maintaining civility?

Dawn, I'm going to start with you.

- Okay.

Mary Kate, to me, I think to say we're the most divided we've ever been or becoming more divided is maybe something we should um push back against a little bit.

The world has had a lot of divisions in history.

Our country has gone through a civil war, through the Vietnam era, through civil rights struggles.

So I think we need to understand that division happens when important things are at stake.

And for me, I think the critical issue right now is misinformation or disinformation that we seem to be operating with different sets of, of facts or assumptions.

And that's a divide that perhaps is is newer because of the technology age that we're in.

So for my own [thump] approach is about making sure that we are getting information that is solid, and then we can have a conversation with shared information.

And I think that's a piece that we're sometimes missing even particularly in our community.

I- love that perspective of well really when you take a wider look at history throughout time again, everyone has always had strong convictions, but things have also been divided before.

This is not unprecedented.

Steve, uh can you speak to that?

- Well, one of the things that I really appreciate what you shared, because, like, the way I approach any of these issues is from the from the perspective of my faith and from the perspective of Scripture.

And if you think we're having a hard time getting along, just talk about the Jews and the Gentiles getting along in the early church and how they came from just radically different perspectives, understanding in life.

And so is they figured out how they were to follow Jesus.

They had to figure out how to treat each other as Jesus would a would would ask them to treat them.

And so I agree like 100%.

It's not unprecedented what we are going through, but it's very important that we work through it for sure.

- And even more so you know the topic of this town hall being civility.

Uh lots of people could have different definitions of that.

So I want to ask what does civility mean to you Christine.

- Sure.

Um so civility when you look at the definition is really about, um respect and being able to have a conversation without, uh diving into derogatory remarks or, um taking a person instead of an issue.

Um, when you're talking about being civil, you want to focus on the issue.

Uh because if you're focusing on tearing down a person, then it obviously can become really challenging, uh.

So civility to me just means being respectful.

Uh but also being willing to if you're not being treated with respect in return, you can draw a boundary.

And, um that sometimes is civility in itself.

- It's good, it's good.

- It's really good.

- Yeah.

I'd like to build on that.

You know, when you're not met with civility, how do you respond either with civility or by setting boundaries?

Steve.

- Well, let me back up.

My favorite definition of civility comes from, uh my seminary professor, um, whose name was Richard Madden, but he he referred to it as uncommon decency.

And I really find that helpful because it is a sense in which you have to use internal kinds of fortitude in order to be responsive to people with a real sense of decency.

That's uncommon.

His was definitely based in this whole sense of faith as well.

And Jesus, you know, requiring encouraging us to do things that are really uncommon, like turning the other cheek and walking the extra mile and loving your enemies.

And so I think that's a significant part of it.

And it is really significant that we also learn how do we respond to people who are not returning that to us, um And again, that becomes a part of the uncommon, uncommon nature of being civil with one another.

- Steve, I'd be remiss not to use your knowledge on this, - Uh-oh - but I want to ask you kind of a difficult question.

Are there any instances in which civility is off the table, and are there any examples of that uh throughout time?

- Well, the only thing that comes to mind, really, I think you should ask this, Steve, this question, uh [Laughter] The only thing that comes to mind for me is maybe war.

Um and I say that.

And then what comes to mind almost immediately, as some of our best examples of people who were uncommonly decent come from war time.

So you've got Anne Frank, you've got, um well, even Dietrich Bonhoeffer, when he was in prison.

And the way that the, the guards talked about him afterwards.

And you've got Corrie Ten Boom.

I mean, all of these people who did amazing things, um in a very civil nature at a time when you wouldn't expect it to happen.

So I guess I would retract that again.

Maybe there is not a time when we, um probably there every time is when we should be trying to practice civility.

- Yeah.

Do you want to add on to that?

- Yeah, I just I'm at the heart of it.

If you're if civility is this this something that starts with us and about how we see other people, and there's this consistent, quiet acknowledgment in us about the other person that they are highly valuable, that they are created in the image and likeness of God.

Then no matter their behavior, you're still leading with that, um.

So I do agree with Steve that to be somebody who's practicing civility, I think it's almost like somebody who's practicing medicine or it's like this work, uh that you're constantly working on because we're going to slip up, we're going to lose our temper.

We're going to raise our voice.

We are going to, in our mind, demean somebody for the stand that they take.

That boy, there needs to be some quick acknowledgment in our own soul when we start to do that.

Right.

So that we could hold this truth that they are valuable because of who they inherently are created in God's image.

- I think that's something we can all take tonight is that it's a practice - Yeah - and it's a muscle that we can strengthen.

- Yeah.

- That's it.

- I think part of it has to be, part of when someone doesn't return.

Civility is being willing to be misunderstood.

- Mmhmm - You know, it's okay that you don't understand where I'm coming from.

I'm still going to choose to see you as a person of worth.

And it's okay, as Christine said earlier, to draw boundaries and say, if you're being abusive towards me, I don't have to continue to submit myself to that.

I can say, you know, it's clear we disagree.

Perhaps we could talk at another time.

Um, and remove myself from conversations that are going to be harmful.

And be willing to be misunderstood.

That I'm trying to foster civility rather than, uh allow things to to fester or for abuse to continue.

- MmHmm - It's good.

- Something to that Dawn.

It's not about, um getting to agreement.

It's about getting to listen and share your perspective.

And even if agreement doesn't happen.

Um we're still able to continue to be with each other, to be in community, to, um you know, shared perspective and, and do life together.

Um.

If we realize that it's not about winning or losing, it's about coming together and, um and being able to set aside one another without being in agreement on certain issues.

And, and that brings a very important point about how about we just start with, how are we alike?

Um.

Where can we find common ground first and then and then um we can talk about we can build trust and we can talk about things that maybe we don't see eye to eye on.

- And Dawn you brought up social media earlier today.

And I think that as it just becomes such a large part of all of our lives, it is important that we don't ignore it.

And I think sometimes it seems easy.

Easy, or I should say, to remain civil when you're face to face with someone with differences.

But with the rise in social media, pssss many of us seem to have gotten more comfortable saying what we want to say behind the wall of a username from the comfort of our own homes, a profile picture and a screen.

So how can we remind ourselves that there are humans on the other side of that and become a little bit more civil, not only face to face, but also online?

Denise.

- Yes, I think that's such an important piece, especially now with social media.

And that goes not even just for adults, but our kids too.

You know, my first thing is like, what example are we setting for them?

And I've been guilty of that.

You know, it is easy to get on social media.

And now I'm going to tell them or I'm going to say this, but what happens is nothing gets accomplished.

You know, you can pat yourself on the back, I told them, but what's the goal?

You know, if you're really looking to make changes and have some impact, um you can definitely do that on social media.

But then you can also open a door to where it is just trying to get clicks.

You know, social media people get paid.

Now there's influencers.

And, you know, people don't know that all the time, but that's what they're looking for.

And so we just have to learn to not engage.

You know, you can try to talk to someone on social media and if it's not getting anywhere, just learning to just kind of walk away and like what you guys have been saying about boundaries, you know, this isn't going anywhere.

Um because it is easy to just get caught up in social media and it is it is a real person there, but you don't know who that person is.

And if you think about it, we tell our kids all the time, you know, not to play online.

You don't know who they are, who it is on the other side.

And it's the same thing for adults.

You know, it could be anybody that lives 500 miles away, you know, trying to tell you what's going on here in Midland.

And so I think just really, um being aware of that, and if it's not getting anywhere, don't be afraid to just not engage and to step away from that.

- In this day and age social media can be such a powerful tool, but also a powerful weapon.

So what are ways that we can be a little bit more purposeful about the ways in which we use social media Dawn?

- One thing is to be really aware that it's not always a human being on the other side of that.

In 2021 at MIT, shared with the world their study that 19 out of the top 20 supposedly Christian Facebook pages were actually run by Eastern European trolls.

You can look this up and they were sowing division on purpose into our country.

The only site that was legit was Guideposts.

So you're okay with guide posts?

But the rest were genuinely, um divisive.

And and so we have to train ourselves to be discerning.

Something gets my goat.

It may be that that was the goal of that was to stir me up and to include, um more of my anger and and outrage into more clicks.

And so we're raising money for enemies of our nation, um by playing into that.

So we have to be more discerning about it.

The other thing I like to do a lot, if I do know the person and we're disagreeing online, I immediately go into private messaging and say, hey, let's have coffee and let's take off those posts and let's go have coffee.

And that has grown some beautiful friendships of people.

I probably would not have been friends with before.

Um but we we have each other's backs because we meet in person.

- Steve, do you want to.

- Yeah I would think it's again, part of developing that spiritual muscle is just I would encourage people to refuse to engage on those things.

If you feel your heart starting to woooh and you feel your, your rage and your anger, I would just encourage people not to engage.

I have developed a social media practice where my social media presence is about food, about family, about fun, and sometimes I will talk about my faith on social media.

So it's these four F's and it's just to because I like social media, I like I like those things that it brings.

But to me, it keeps it in that space of enjoyment and there's time to talk about important things.

But it's here.

It's not here.

- Steve your kids are grown, um but you have grandchildren as well.

How can we teach our children some of these practices that it's great to have internet friends.

It's great to be online.

It's also really important to be present with people in the moment.

- I think my first thing is that I'm hoping with uh, both my children and my grandchildren, that there's a lot of talk about, how social media can form and shape who you are.

So there's a so long way around to answer this question, but there's a very, uh famous, commencement speech by David Foster Wallace that was called This Is Water.

And it begins by talking about two fish are swimming along and an older fish come in opposite direction, goes by and says, hey, boys, how's the water in the swim?

A little further, and then they look at each other and say, what the hell is water?

And, he goes on to talk about some of the most obvious, important realities of our lives are the ones that are the hardest to see and the hardest to talk about.

So I think for parents, for all of us that have influenced that, to realize how habit forming this is and that we need, we have agency to be able to say yes and no to this.

And so, to be very aware that, you know, um our habits shape our lives more significantly than we think.

I think there was a study done at Duke University.

About 40% of our actions are not a product of our choices, but of our habits.

So I think that, that would be one suggestion in terms of hoping that parents and all that would actually take it really seriously about how habit forming this can be for our children.

- One of the things we do at our churches, at retreats, at children's camp, at youth camp, on mission trip, there's no phones.

- Yup - And that that digital Sabbath is so helpful and you can see kids eyes getting brighter um, and then when we return the phones, we remind them and parents that you have control over this device.

And it should never be in your bedroom at night and things like that, that, um that are just good practices for young developing brains.

- Yeah, we've gotten actually a lot of feedback, on some new laws in Texas that are banning cell phone use in schools.

Obviously it's a divisive issue, but, um there have been some people that say it has been helpful for children.

I think it's also important to note that our algorithms are literally designed to show us what we want to see, uh, and that can sometimes lead us to being in, an online echo chamber.

And that's not helpful for division either.

So how can we be conscious of that and train ourselves to look for that?

Christine.

- I think the most important thing is being intentional about, um, reading what you see.

What what is put in front of you and then asking good questions.

Uh, is this helpful?

Is this true?

Um be willing to go, um, looking and searching for things that maybe aren't readily available.

Um, our algorithms, like you said, sometimes will feed us what we want to hear, will sometimes feed us things that that are intended to make us click or watch or get caught up in um, the drama or, uh in our emotions.

And so being willing and intentional to slow down, take in what you see, and then really discern, um, what you're reading and what you're seeing, and then look for uh, the facts.

Um, not taking it for face value, but actually going out and searching for potentially an opposing viewpoint or something that that tends to ask you questions about what you just read or what you just heard, um.

And I think it's never too late, um to change your mind on something.

Uh, we're talking about our children, and we're talking about, um community and modeling.

Um, we've got to start somewhere So uh, just because we have phones um, and we've gotten into the mess that we're in with social media and with our phones.

Um, it's it's okay to take a step back and say, you know what I'm going to take control of of this situation, or I'm going to change what I have been used to doing, and I'm going to intentionally, uh make a choice to do better, to be better.

I know better now.

Um, your life's situations, um should help you grow and should help you change in your mindset and your actions.

And when you have kids, you want to model for them.

And um, when your kids are gone, who are you modeling for?

But, you know, your community.

So thinking about being able to apologize, um that maybe we didn't know all we know now about devices or about social media and being willing to step back and say, you know what?

I know better now, and I'm going to do different.

- And I think that flexibility is such an interesting point.

You know, we spoke about having strong moral convictions, but also sometimes if we are too rigid, that might not be productive either.

Denise, can you speak to that?

- Yeah, I think it's, um number one, we have to just know not everybody is going to agree with us.

You know, sometimes we get so caught up on what other people, you know, but we have to just really take a step back and just say, you know, it's okay.

We all have different perspective.

We grew up differently.

You know, we work in different places.

Our day to day is different.

And so, um back to just your question.

You know, if you're on social media and you're seeing this the same thing over and over, I mean, that might make you feel comfortable, but it goes back to what impact?

You know, if you're passionate about something and you want to see change the way that you do, that is by including everyone, as many people as you can.

Not just the people that think like you, because that's something that's not going to last.

And so I think it's just really important for us, just as, um for ourselves to take a step back and just understand, okay, whatever the subject is, they might not agree with me, but let me ask them, you know, that's one thing I've been trying to work on is listening to other people, like, tell me your story.

Why do you feel this way?

You know and not and be actually ready to listen, you know, not just prepared to answer like, I'm going to tell you why I think this and this is why you should, but and you never know.

And just like Christine said, it might change your mind or you might understand where they're coming from and then find a way to make common ground and be able to to talk about those things.

- When you were talking about the algorithms, one of the things I started doing, I noticed in in my congregation, in my family, people had such different perspectives of what was happening and current events.

So I started asking, where, where do you watch your news?

Where are you getting your information?

Not to judge, but just for my own knowledge.

And so I look at and have for now eight years, three different news sources daily, not in-depth, but just to see.

And invariably the headlines are different.

And now I have a better understanding of why someone is passionate or upset, because this is where they've gotten their news from, and it's just helpful to understand that we're being shaped by different forces, and we need to see the bigger picture of where people are coming from.

- Before we go to a quick break, I do want to acknowledge that some of what we're talking about may be considered subjective.

Society becoming less civil could be considered subjective, and arguments can be made that what's now being dubbed as political correctness, or even in some cases, what some people may see as civility was actually suffocating and limiting, and people were frustrated by that and remain frustrated by that.

So how can we live in harmony while maintaining some of these differences?

And you know, what are the differences?

- Steve.

- Wow.

Well, I think going back, uh I was like, in our current climate, there's like both sides of conversations.

They're calling back to the Founding Fathers or calling back to the Constitution, and to kind of rebut the fact that maybe civility is, you know, kind of watering things down or whatever.

People like George Washington and Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin, they were talking about civility back then, too.

So it's like woven this, this desire to be people who are relating to others with great respect is kind of rooted in who we are, is a nation.

So I don't think we could step away from that, too much.

What was the other part of the question?

- Well, I think there is still some sense of frustration in the nation about how to handle these differences.

And some people may think it's with civility and some may say, no, we need to be angry.

We need to dig in on this.

- Yeah, uh I don't know.

I think for for just for me personally, uh.

It's like, what's the most important things in your life.

Is it what's going on as, as a whole nation.

For me it's like what's going on with my family.

And then I have more space out here and more space out here.

Some of the most heartbreaking things that I've been dealing with over the past couple of years is when church members, uh will come to me and say, yeah, my kids aren't coming home from Thanksgiving because of who I voted for.

So relationships are being abandoned.

Because of the incivility that's going on, I don't want to lose any of my relationships with those people that are closer to me.

So what am I willing to yield and to give way on for the sake of sparing and keeping my relationships safe and keeping them sound insecure?

And so I do think that all that we've been talking about, social media, they ramp these issues up to these massive things with our day to day lives.

What are the who's the person right in front of you?

What's the most important way that I can treat them?

With love and respect and value and that sort of thing would be kind of where I would tend to encourage people to focus.

- Yeah, that's a great way to stay grounded.

- Yes.

- Dawn, would you like to add to that?

- Well, the anger that we're seeing a lot of is often misdirected.

And it's being pulled by these online, uh puppet masters when actually we've forgotten.

I think sometimes the things to really be outraged about, like, there's children in our community that don't have enough to eat.

Now, there's something we can all get on the same page about.

You know, there are there are people being abused in their homes.

As we remember Domestic Violence Awareness Month, there's something we could all say, let's do something about that for our neighbor.

So I think anger has a place, but when it's misdirected and driven by online puppet masters, that's when we've got to say, let's look at where our anger is going.

Is it helping us or is it harming us.

- Steve.

- Yeah I just want thank you for saying that.

I really appreciate it.

I think the other thing that um really helps with this is to actually engage with one another.

That personal engagement gets us to a point where we share a lot of common things that um, like, we all care about what's going to happen to our kids, and we all care about those who are going hungry.

And and if that's if all we're listening to is out there, we're never actually talking with another real human being.

We don't.

We forget that there's just people that share some of the same values that we do across the board.

And I think the only other thing I would add to that is I just think it can be so incredibly helpful for those who are really good at so civility.

I think they're curious and they're always looking at a way to find out, you know, how is it that you've come to that conclusion?

Why do you think thats important um, and being curious can be one of the best ways that we can begin to recognize each other's differences and learn a little bit more of that.

- Well said.

- Thats beautiful - We have a lot more to talk about.

What we do need to take a short break.

Please stay with us because when we come back, we will continue our conversation on Communicating with civility in 2025.

To basin PBS.

Let's continue a lack of civility, especially when experienced frequently in daily life or online, causes a broad range of mental health issues which are so important in our nation right now.

That can be from heightened anxiety and stress to depression, burnout, social withdrawal.

And we see the effects that this has on our community.

And I think our young people are particularly susceptible right now to this mental health crisis.

So how can we combat this as community members, as family members, as friends, as faith leaders?

Christine, I'm going to start with you.

- Well, I want to touch back on what Dawn said earilier about um you know, not putting phones in children's rooms at night.

And, um when my kids were growing up, we were sort of getting into the height of social media and having phones.

And, um I think, like I said earlier, it's okay to, um know better and and step back.

So with my oldest daughter, we let her have a phone to do everything on, listen to music use as an alarm.

And then really quickly we learned that, um that wasn't healthy for her to be having that phone all of the time.

And so we, um made a family pact that we were all, you know, charging our devices in the kitchen and kids weren't allowed in their rooms with their phones by themselves.

And, um so setting those, those healthy boundaries, um when we know we have our own problems with, um you know, controlling our use of our devices and, and so I think um, knowing when to make a new rule or set um a new boundary, and, and knowing how to do that in a healthy way, uh to limit anxiety to limit the stress to, to limit the constant, um immediate feedback, uh from a device instead of from a parent, a family member, um wise counsel um when you're making everything about a device that that is, um not, you know, somebody that's loving you and, um investing with you in you and spending time with you, then that that's not healthy.

And and that's where that mental health can, um can really be challenged.

- Denise, your children are young um and we see so many young people that are struggling with their mental health.

um how do you handle that with your friends and with your family?

- Yeah, there's a lot of conversations about kids and phones and everything.

I think it's talking to each other.

Um, ne thing you know, we have our youngest is a teenager.

Talk about civility.

You know, you're learning a lot, and you're trying to teach them.

Um but I think it's okay to reach out to friends and family, you know, and ask them talk to each other.

I mean, like, Christine, I'm going to talk to you after this about some cell phone thing.

Don't be afraid to.

And that's how you build community is you talk to one another, you know, if you're if there's something you're struggling with or you have a question about, don't be afraid to ask.

Um, I think, too, we think about how when we grew up, we didn't have the social media and the cell phones, you know, and so it's a new generation and it's a different world for them.

And so being engaged in what they're doing, you know, what are you on.

You know, what are you watching.

What are you listening to?

Um a lot of times parents don't realize till it's too late.

This, you know, deep hole that maybe their kid has gone into, and maybe just a couple checkups they could have seen to something.

Some red flags, you know, and and it's hard.

It's hard to have those conversations, especially if you haven't, you know, set those boundaries.

But I love what Christine said.

Don't be afraid to pull back and say, okay, hold on.

We're going to change something.

You know, if something doesn't seem right, um it's probably because there is there's more to it.

So I think just being engaged in what they're doing, checking in, um and just um, checking in on their devices and who they're talking to.

- Dawn, what kind of effects have you seen specifically with mental health uh in your church, in your community.

- I think it's really important we realize, especially with young people, with children, with teens even, they don't need to carry the weight of the world on their shoulders.

And I think we need to be aware of what we're exposing them to.

What level of news stories are they seeing?

What are they hearing adults talk about?

You know, it's a rite of childhood to feel safe in the world, and we need to make sure we're protecting that, not in a way that is Pollyanna, but that prepares them in an age appropriate ways to have conversations, um.

So we do a lot of debriefing, um in our congregation with a special our youth group over events that have happened, you know, during the week.

But we let them bring up what they want to talk about, rather than thinking.

We need to make sure you're informed about X, Y, and Z. Just let them share what's on their hearts and minds and help them process what is a very busy world for them compared to what most of us grew up around.

- I want to build on that because our young men are at particular risk right now as well.

Men are 3.3 times more likely to die from causes like suicide, overdose, and alcohol related illnesses, often called deaths of despair.

Um and the media has pointed to a male loneliness epidemic in which particularly young men are feeling misunderstood or isolated and may find community online, um or somewhere else that has the chance to harm them.

So how do we show men, and particularly our young men, compassion and emotional vulnerability, to try and combat some of these risks?

Steve.

- Yeah Maybe to start with, well, a couple of things going through my head at the same time.

One is that I think for younger men in particular, I mean, you know, in connection with, um our youth that the loneliness, isolation, stress, that one of the best interventions that we can provide is, um, in person, trusted adults so that the research is showing that, you know, 31% of our young people do not have an a trusted adult in their life.

And so that part of one of the things that we're doing at our church is we've made the goal that our each of our students and children in our church would have five trusted adults around them, which is a major thing to undertake.

But I think for young men in particular, um unless they are able to find or get engaged with some other older man mentor that is willing to, um be open and honest with them, willing to allow them to show some better ways to deal with all those emotions that come up.

So, um even when, when my son was younger and we were working, I can't remember the name of the book exactly, but I read this book about, you know, how to how to men and boys work together.

And it was much more of a shoulder to shoulder kind of thing.

And so all of our best things happened when we were shooting baskets in the driveway, or we were playing catch or something.

But I think for our young men to try to redirect them back to some healthier ways and not all that isolation.

Um, I know that I listen to PBS Newshour, and Brooks and Capehart, um several times now, David Brooks has brought up the term nihilism, a rather scary thing for me to think about how many young men are coming up with the no sense of, um right or wrong or, um good or bad or, um don't really care about everything.

So um, I think that for men, we are also we are really good at talking about what we do we are really bad about and even unwilling to talk about who we are becoming.

And until we have some of our older men and um, fathers that are engaging with some of our younger men, or it seems to me like that be one of the natural ways we start to help with those kinds of things.

Steve, would you like to add - Yeah.

So it's it's like if if we're all in agreement that something with our phones and social media is creating what we hear the most anxious.

- Yeah.

- Uh.

Depressed, lonely and isolated cohort in US history, then there has to be it's going to be very hard for the person who's suffering that to put this down.

So and if we want our nation and our city to be a better place, somebody is going to have to take a step towards, - Yeah, - these people that are hurting and are in that place.

And so it's this, this willingness, like the vulnerability always has to start with us.

It always has to start start with the ones that are maybe not in that bad place to take a step towards the ones that are bad.

That takes time.

It takes sacrifice, but it's not going to get any better until that sacrifice starts to happen.

- Dawn - I would be remiss if I didn't say Big Brothers.

Big Sisters is a great way to do that in the Permian Basin.

- Yeah.

- Um and there are many others of course.

- Yeah.

- Yeah, I was going to say, you know, how can we as community members, as viewers who are watching at home, how can we be that stepping stone for people?

And I think also, I've been hearing a lot about sort of the importance of inconveniencing yourself for others, which has become a little bit easier to not do in this day and age.

Christine, how can we help the people in our neighborhoods, our friends and our family?

- I think the best thing to do is be willing to get outside of yourself and serve, uh whether you're serving one on one, whether you're checking on a neighbor, um those things, the the ways that we need to be good neighbors to other citizens in our communities are going to that person's taking a step toward them.

Um, checking in on them and asking them, you know, if they're okay.

Um and then being willing to listen um, when they do um and if they do share with you, um and not listening to give advice, but listening to point them in a direction where they can get, uh the help that they need or, the information that they need to um, to seek out, - Denise, you're so busy.

Obviously a mother of young children, and you still are so involved in your community.

What drives you to do that?

And how can other people get involved?

- Yeah, I mean, I just think it's um important where you live.

You know, I think uh Steve you said something about we can focus on what's happening nationally, but what's happening here in Midland, what's happening here?

You know, when I drive out of my driveway and go to work, you know what's happening in the oil field here?

What's happening in our schools.

And it takes people caring.

And number one, you know, you have to care.

And then getting involved.

I think Christine made a great point.

We have so many nonprofits here from um youth sports to, MISD public school that has over 30,000 kids.

You know, there's so many ways where in places where you can go and volunteer and whatever you know, you like to do, there's Love Midland just happened, which is a great thing that's going on every year.

And you can plug in and find a way.

But I think it's just caring.

And in order to make impact, because we can get on social media and we can say all the things, but we can either decide if we're going to tear people down or are we going to build people up?

And I think that's what's important for our community.

And Midland is a great place, and it just takes us being an example for the youth, you know, for the kids, because they watch us, they see what we do.

They see what we're posting on social media, especially as they get older.

I'm like, oh my gosh, like, is my son going to watch this when they're little?

You can get away with that.

But they get older and that's what they learn, what they see all the time.

And you know, so I think it's just caring about our community, getting involved where you can and um getting off of social media when you can and have face to face connections with people.

- Dawn - It's better for everybody's mental health to serve your neighbor.

And really, what this conversation boils down to, to me, is do we see each other as enemies to defeat our neighbors, to love and to serve?

And choosing to be about serving your neighbor really takes care of a lot of the angst that we've been talking about.

- Outside of serving and outside of focusing on our own families and neighborhoods, something that unfortunately does take up lots of all of our time is work.

Um a lot of Americans feel overworked and burnt out and underpaid right now, and we spend an average of 40 to 50 hours a week at work with our coworkers.

And as we all know, sometimes it's easier to take out frustrations and differences out on the people you're around the most.

Sometimes that may be your coworkers.

Uh what are some ways that we can better communicate at work, especially with coworkers that we may not agree with?

And you know, what does your body language and your tone, how does that affect the coworkers around you as well?

- Christine, I'm going to start with you.

- Well, I recently took a job, um where I am, fully virtual with all of my colleagues.

I'm the only one in Texas, and everyone else is around um the the rest of the U.S.. Uh, so, a very good question, because I've been learning as I go, and it's really about listening, like we've been talking about and being curious, asking questions, um and not assuming where they're coming from or making assumptions about letting them explain or share, um and then and then being able to really connect with them in some way.

Again, you know, finding what do we have in common, uh versus immediately jumping to where are we, uh not connecting on an issue or on a subject, uh but finding the common ground and then building from there.

Um, am I willing to see the positive things, or am I willing to see the things that I'm going to immediately criticize?

And and I think that's where, ih you can find common ground in the workplace is if you're willing to do that.

But you kind of have to it starts with you, um and you have to practice it.

Uh you have to be intentional.

It doesn't come naturally.

You just kind of want to do your stuff and get your stuff done.

And get your point across.

And, um so you really have to kind of check yourself and, uh and then be willing to put in the effort because it doesn't come naturally sometimes.

- I think sometimes it's important for us to acknowledge that a lack of civility may come from a lot of different places, but I think a big issue right now is that the cost of living is increasing.

People are working really hard and it's getting harder to make ends meet.

So how can we be compassionate about that as well?

Steve - Yeah.

Well, I think what he was sort of talking about some of this and one way or another, but there's that old saying, you know, hurt people, hurt people, and we've all been hurt somewhere or another, and we've all taken the hit from somebody that said something about us or, um was suspicious of us or something or another.

So that tendency to allow that hurtful part of us to come out is, um is one thing that we sort of have to.

I'm going back to where I started, sort of we have to deal with our interior life.

And I think that in the midst of all those different needs and fears around what we won't have enough of, we also are not good at resting.

And so we don't have the capacity even to, you know, from a more, I don't know, solid, restful place to be able to respond to somebody.

Well.

And so all those things kind of come together in my mind.

But, um I really liked what everybody was saying before about some of it is just being that intentional and trying to remain intentional about it.

So.

- Sometimes we have to think we don't know what a coworker is going through.

We don't know what a neighbor is going through.

We know so little.

We only see what they want us to see.

And so sometimes we can create that story in our minds of maybe this person is really having a hard time and they're taking it out on me, which is not okay.

And we can draw boundaries about that.

But we can also be compassionate to the best of our human ability.

- Yeah.

- I want to add something to that um you know, thinking personally from, um just my experience and my own personal growth.

I'm uh, conditioned from a young age to be very black and white.

I was very, um very much one of the things to be right or wrong.

And as I've grown and experienced life, I've learned that, um a lot of it is about, uh truth, but also grace and finding a balance between the two, uh because I know that I need grace um and so am I willing to not only give myself grace, but also to extend that to other people that comes into play when you're talking about your faith as well.

Uh, you know, there are things that are black and white, but when you're dealing with humanity, um really grace is very important to kind of strive toward.

- Yeah.

- And I think you can speak truth in um in love.

You know, that's, that's what it's about.

It's like the civility is there respect.

You know, and it goes back to like you were saying somebody might be having a bad day at work.

I might be having a bad day at work, you know, and the way that someone comes at you or, you know, you go to someone else could really trigger something.

You know, you're just needing that one thing and then you're going to social media or you're upset, you know, and hurt people hurt people.

There could be somebody that's that's hurt and that love is what they need, you know, to feel maybe that's not what's happening.

So I think just speaking, um truth with love is very important and respecting one another.

And that's, that's something as a person, you have to decide if that's the character that you want to have.

Because we say we want to operate in integrity and respect, but actions speak louder than words.

What are our actions?

What are those look like?

- Yeah.

- Before we go here tonight, I would be remiss not to talk about faith with so many faith leaders here.

So what does faith what does the Bible teach us about civility, tolerance, and compassion?

And what does it teach us about disagreement?

What happens when faith is the basis of a disagreement with another person?

Um let's get into some of these some of these questions.

Steve.

- Wow.

Uh do I was just thinking that last part of the conversation, Jesus's, little brother James, uh he said this, everyone should take note.

They should be quick to listen and slow to speak and slow to get angry and, wow, what a, what a shift there would be if we all started to discipline ourselves to be that.

Because everybody's talking and not very many people are listening.

And I wonder if the people who are struggling so much, uh with their mental health, what it would be like if they felt regularly listened to.

Right?

Uh, and so this whole conversation that we're having is just it's bound up as, as we said earlier, people are created in the image of God.

Well, what is God like?

And when God wanted his people to know what he was like said, I want you to know these five things.

I'm compassionate.

I'm gracious.

I'm slow to anger, abounding in love and faithful.

That is what I am like.

And that's what I want you to think about when you think of me.

And so to lead as with our faith, which you know, like all of us around this table are, we got to lead with that character that it's been planted in us by God.

And so we can't whenever we're we're being pushed to the limit and we all get pushed to the limit and we want to lash out.

It's like this, this restraint that God has the capacity through his grace to give us, to continue to reflect his character so that people can feel heard and loved and valued and appreciated, even if we radically disagree about something.

- Dawn.

- Earlier I referenced that there are bad actors in the world that are actually trying to use Christian faith to say things that are not Christ like.

Um and just this week we learned that, um another foreign government has been geofencing, uh evangelical churches in the United States.

You can read about it in the Baptist Standard to send ads to you when you're on your way to church.

Propaganda, um ads.

So we have to teach our faith communities to be discerning, to be discerning about people who speak in God's name.

And what I go back to is Galatians five, the fruit of the spirit.

How do you know if something is of me?

The fruit of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness, self-control.

If that's what it's about, that's that's faith.

That's Christian faith.

If it's not about that, then it's not.

And we have to be discerning and speak the truth and love about that.

- Steve - Yeah, I have one thing yeah.

I, uh most of us have been through either some denominational split or even some contentious thing in the midst of our own congregations.

And a lot of that gets driven by there's different dichotomies in our faiths and and righteousness and holiness.

Uh I wonder though uh especially with all that, I totally agree with everything.

You just both of you just said about this, but I wonder if sometimes we, uh forget or we don't give enough emphasis to the other dichotomy that's there and that's fair in love.

And how much of our incivility is driven by fear and anxiety and, um all of that and, um from a faith perspective, um and first John talks about you know, perfect love casts out fear.

And I think if we recognize that God is love and we sort of start to lead with there's more to the story than just, you know, who's right and who's wrong and all of this.

And can we find a way back to the source of all love in the midst of this as a way to be talking about it, and also strikes me that the most often repeated command in Scripture is, do not be afraid, and to begin to live in to some of that might actually do more to bring civility, um than we think.

- Amen.

- Yeah.

- Christine, how does faith lead you?

And, um what does it teach you about disagreement and compassion?

- Well, I think first off, um I have a very simple version of um how I like to explain my faith.

And, and it's really about the God sized hole inside each one of us that is searching for that perfect love.

And um, we're all born with that emptiness, um that is seeking, um inclusivity, that is seeking, um love, that is seeking, um acceptance.

And the only one that can provide that for us is our Heavenly Father or a faith greater than ourselves.

And and so whatever that is for you, for me, it's Jesus fills that hole.

Um for someone else, it has to be something outside of of yourself.

Something greater than um, than you.

And so when you're looking at civility and you're and you're looking at your faith, um we're not perfect.

In fact, um God created us, human, uh and we have flaws.

And so we have to be willing to be aware, of those things and be willing to um, accept those things as, um things that we need to do better.

Uh we need to accept them, and we need to set be intentional about growing um and those things, are what I think as as I lead with my faith, um being willing to say, you know what I'm not perfect, and I never will be, but I will strive to do better today than I was yesterday.

- Dawn quickly, I'm going to task you with something a little bit difficult.

Um, but if you could close us out tonight and talk about what we've learned and what we should take away from this evening.

- What we've learned that we're surrounded by great community leaders, that I'm so grateful to be on this panel with each of you.

I think we've talked a lot about listening.

We've talked about how important it is to be self-aware and to pay attention to our own interior lives so that we can bring peace and calm to a conversation.

We've talked about discernment, about being where aware, where our information comes from, and about trying to find common ground, being curious, asking people questions, trying to understand where they're coming from, and occasionally drawing boundaries in a kind and firm way so that we are not in harm's way in our conversations with others.

And I think we've talked a lot about hope that there is a lot of hope if we will serve our neighbors together, we can build a better community.

- Thank you so much and our sincere thanks to all of tonight's panelists Christine Foreman, Denise Norman, Reverend and Doctor Dawn Weaks, Pastor Steve Shorr, and Reverend Steve Brooks.

I've learned so much from all of you tonight, and I hope our viewers did as well.

We'd also like to thank our Basin PBS board and staff, along with the Elizabeth Reed Yeager family and the Anwar family, for their generous support of Basin PBS.

We'd also, of course, like to thank you are valued viewers.

If you'd like to know more about our local programing or become a member of basin PBS, please visit our website.

Basin PBS.org.

Thank you so much for joining us tonight.

[music] I'm Mary Kate Hamilton.

Good night.

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