(light music) - [Announcer] This program is made possible through a grant from WETA Iconic America.

(light music) From Carver Hall on the campus of Bloomsburg University, Bloomsburg University at WVIA present "Conversations for the Common Good Civil Discourse, Civic Engagement" "Immigration Stories: From the Statue of Liberty to Northeast Pennsylvania".

(light music) - Hello, tonight we embark on a journey.

Our voyage takes us beyond the iconic symbol of freedom, the Statue of Liberty, to the heartland of Northeast Pennsylvania, where immigrants have woven their stories into the very fabric of the many towns that dot the region.

These immigration stories remind us of our shared humanity, the power of empathy, the importance of standing together for the common good.

Through laughter and reflection, challenges and achievements, these conversations reveal the resilience within every immigrant heart.

I'm Larry Vojtko.

Join me on this meaningful journey as we delve into "Conversations for the Common Good Immigration Stories: From the Statue of Liberty to Northeast Pennsylvania".

Immigration is not just a matter of policy, it is, at its heart, a quest by an individual that impacts many aspects of what it means to be human.

Aspects, when shared, that provide links from one person to the next.

So let's celebrate the bonds that make us stronger as a nation.

And we're not alone in this exploration.

Three individuals from Northeast Pennsylvania will also share their own experiences as well as stories of immigrants they have worked with in their professional lives here in the United States.

Now let's meet our panel, individuals who bring up wealth of personal and professional expertise to this complex topic.

Jenny Gonzalez-Monge is a co-founder of STARS, Students Together Achieving Remarkable Success, a program that offers academic mentoring, bilingual workshops, and college application assistance to youth from the Latinx community.

Alejandra Marroquin is the Community Outreach Coordinator at Geisinger Commonwealth School of Medicine.

Ushu Mukelo is currently the president and CEO of Profficially LLC, a Scranton-based translation and interpretation service that also offers refugee resettlement counseling, primarily to the Congolese community.

Well, welcome to this conversation.

We're here in Carver Hall in the Gross Auditorium on the campus of Bloomsburg University, and we really thank the university for partnering with WVIA on these important conversations.

So let us start.

You know, we're talking about immigration stories.

So I'll start with you, Alejandra.

Tell us your story.

What brought you here, how you chose to come, all that went into that journey that you took.

- Thank you so much.

So my story really begins with my parents because they are the ones who decided that we were gonna come, I was younger.

- So about how old were you at that time?

- I was 13 years old.

- [Larry] Okay.

- So I was 13.

And it is interesting, as they were saying on the video that you remember the exact dates, right?

So I remember when we migrated to the United States, it was in January of 1993.

And I remember we arriving in New York, not at Ellis Island, but at Port Authority, and being greeted by family and being very cold.

And in also that same year, there was a big snow storm.

But essentially, my story starts in Guatemala, where I'm from and my parents are from.

And the safety of my father really became a concern, where he could no longer do his job.

It was a matter of safety, where he was constantly in danger.

And so he decided that that's not the life he wanted for himself and for his family.

And he and a friend migrated to the United States and he was here and hired an attorney and went through all the documentation.

That was in 1989.

And then three years later, we arrived.

- So did he apply for asylum because of that?

Is that on that?

- So I think.

- In that program?

- I believe so.

I am not sure.

But I think that through the attorney, they went through different programs and he had a family here.

So my grandfather essentially applied for all of us.

For my father, my mom, and my younger sisters and I in that process.

- So you were 13.

- [Alejandra] That is correct.

- All right.

Now tell us about that transition from Guatemala and the situation down there that brought the family here.

And now, you know, you are faced probably with a language barrier of some sort.

You're 13, which is a difficult age.

You know, those teen years are not easy for anyone.

And now where did you settle initially?

- So initially, we went to New Jersey 'cause we had family there.

Well, my father's family there, so we went there.

- And so now you're in school?

- Yes, so now I'm in school and I remember going to the school where there was just a lot of students.

And I remember just standing there taking it all in until a teacher finally arrived and said, "That's going to be your seat."

And it was a whole new experience of learning a new school system, what schedule was like.

I also felt very lost because I came from, where I grew up, I knew where everything was, the store, my neighbors, I knew everyone to not knowing how to get home from school to home.

And that was very frustrating for me.

- Yes, right.

And now, that kind of situation is not unusual for anybody moving from one community to another, particularly if you were moving, say from a rural area into the city.

But specifically, what did you encounter from your interactions with the teachers and you and with your classmates and you?

What challenges were out there that you faced that were particularly maybe confusing, maybe caused some fear in you?

- So, fortunately in New Jersey, there was a program that was English as a Second Language, where there was, I was actually surrounded by all students who spoke Spanish.

So in that classroom, I was able to speak my native language to other students and ask questions.

But outside of that school, I wasn't, because I didn't have the language, I wasn't able to ask questions.

And it was just scary to come up to anyone because I didn't know how to communicate.

- So fast forward, now you're graduating from high school.

Had you made the transition well by that time?

- Yes, and so one of the things that really helped me is because when I was doing homework, nobody in my family could really help me do homework.

So I had a dictionary, who became my best friend.

And I made a determination that I was going to learn the language because I didn't want to take hours upon hours.

And so I did extra work to learn the language and I went to summer school and by the time I graduated high school, I had already completed all the ESL programs.

- How did your family, your parents do here?

Did your father find a job?

- He did.

- Yeah.

- And it was a transition.

His first work at a warehouse.

And then from there, he went working into delivery, working for a pharmacy where he delivered things.

My mom started working for a fast food restaurant, eventually ended up as a custodian at a school.

And that's where she retired from.

- And your siblings, they all made the transition fairly well?

- At the beginning, for them it was also really hard.

My sister, I have two sisters, and my middle sister used to call my dad often.

I think just the familiarity of like, "I don't wanna be here" or "This is difficult for me" until my dad said, "You're gonna have to learn how to cope because I cannot answer the phone all the time."

- But they were all able to find their way- - [Alejandra] Yes.

- And stay here in the country.

I wanna get back to you in a little bit and we'll talk about what you're doing now and maybe hear some other stories, but I'd like to go to Ushu Mukalo.

Now, you came from the Democratic Republic of Congo.

- [Ushu] That's correct.

- So tell us about that.

That journey that you took and what led you to leave that country, come here, and now you're advocating mainly for the Congolese community and so, you know, give us that particular narrative for us.

- Correct.

So my story begins in Eastern Congo, the war ravaged part of the Democratic Republic of Congo.

And it's sad that I lost my mom when I was a little boy.

I think I was about three years old and my brother was one year old.

My father, who is in the audience here, was, you know, tasked with trying to find baby milk from communities that owned cows far in the mountains called the Mitumba Ranges in Uvira territory of South Kivu Province of the Democratic Republic of Congo.

Again, war broke out.

That was around 1996, 1997, when a rebellion mostly sponsored by the Ugandan government and Rwandan government was advancing and trying to topple President Mobutu, who was a dictator that had been in power for over 32 years then.

So our country, as a result of the war, was forced to flee to Uganda where we lived in the refugee camp for more than 12 years before we came to the US.

And so the story of me coming to the US actually starts in the refugee camp in Uganda.

Around 2010, I think, 2011, that's when the UNCR came up with a program partnering with our Resettlement Support Center, USA, that they began looking out for names for refugee families that had been living in the refugee camp for so long that, you know, our name was also shortlisted and we began the process.

So from 2011 to 2014, somehow that's, you know, how long the process took before we came to Scranton in December of 2015.

- So what port did you come into?

- So we came through the Refugee Resettlement Program.

It's actually called the US Refugee Admissions Program.

- Did you fly in?

- Yes, we were flown in.

We left Entebbe in Uganda to Amsterdam in the Netherlands, and then from Amsterdam to JFK and then driven to Scranton.

- So, you know, you were coming to and it was, you know, somehow a decision that Scranton was going to be the destination.

- No, it wasn't the decision.

Well, there are a lot of people who are involved in processing refugee families.

The US and the UNCR Resettlement Support Center, which is, I think, mostly funded by the United States Department of State, Church World Services was putting money into it.

But after the process, I don't think you have a say on where you're going.

They will ask you questions like, "Do you have family?"

"Do you have friends that live in a specific state in the US?"

And if you say that, sometimes they'll try to be lenient, they'll try to be nice and bring you where you're closer to those people that came before you so they can help you out.

- Now let's back up just a little bit.

You said you spent 12 years in a refugee camp.

- [Ushu] More than 12 years, yes.

- More than 12 years.

So from what age to what age are we talking?

- I was a little boy.

Like I said, my mom died when I was three.

I can't count the numbers well in between there, you know, I was very young, but I know when I came to the US in 2015, I was 20.

- [Larry] Wow.

- Yeah.

- So all that time, that's all of the foundational time of a person, you know, that's where everything is basically set for a person's adult life.

Education and, you know, just the idea of feeling safe, feeling belonging of something.

How did that really affect you?

And now when you look back on that, how do you view those years?

Is there a kind of an anger in there that you were somehow, you know, dealt a bad hand in life, or?

- Well, I don't know.

I think the piece de resistance in all this is what's the role of a parent, because I mean, we've gone through all sorts of suffering, you know?

I usually summarize life as a refugee as that of misery, hopelessness, and, you know, and so on.

And I think what was very important for me and my young brother growing up and not having that, you know, that anger and everything that you're describing, is my father was very central to our everyday life.

He encouraged us to go to school and he said, "Well, if we're not lucky enough to maybe go to a third country of asylum, at least you might have the school and be able to find a job or do something else with your life."

He also, you know, encouraged us to be very strong and understand that life is not always easy.

You know, there are difficulties, like, you know, his famous saying in French.

(Ushu speaking French) The difficulties form part of everyone's life.

You don't run away from difficulties, but you confront the difficulties.

So he, you know, he was very encouraging.

He was very central to our everyday life.

And I think that's what, you know, has made us so there is nothing like anger.

Yeah.

- And Jenny, let's hear about your story.

'Cause it's different than Alejandra's or Ushu's because you were actually born here in the United States.

You're a first generation American.

So tell us about that experience, the experience of your parents as they related it to you.

- Yeah, so I was born in Queens, New York, but immigration has really played a big role in my entire life, in shaping my childhood, my adulthood, my professional life, my personal life really, again, starting with my family.

My father's originally from Mexico and my mother is from El Salvador.

They both left, similar and for different reasons, their native countries in the '80s.

They met in California, eventually moved to New York City because they heard of more job opportunities there.

And a few friends had already moved to New York City.

That's where I was born in the '90s, in the mid-'90s.

My father found out about Northeastern Pennsylvania because of one of his cousins moving to this area.

And again, it was a job opportunity.

So he ended up moving, relocating first while he kind of figured out what was going on here.

And eventually my mother and I ended up moving to Northeastern Pennsylvania in the '90s.

- Now, of course you were born in America, but tell me about some of the, perhaps some of the challenges you faced in your youth as you were growing up and now you're in school, you came from a family and the family spoke Spanish at home, correct?

And now you're going into school.

Were there mistakes, was it mistaken by your teachers and or classmates that you were the immigrant and not the native born American?

- Absolutely.

So, especially in the '90s in the Scranton school district, the majority of the population did not look like me.

So there were many times that teachers, educators would say, "Oh, she's a foreign student."

And I would have to, first I would stay quiet and then eventually I started correcting people.

But I guess it also didn't help that because in my home, we only spoke Spanish, that when I did start elementary school, English was a second language.

So I was put in ESL courses and given all of this extra support to make sure that I learned English to catch up to the rest of the student population.

But yes, the people assuming because of what I looked like that I was a foreigner or I was a foreign student, really happened up until I was in high school.

Once I got to high school, there was a little bit more of racial diversity where it wasn't quickly assumed that these students have to be in ESL or these students are not from the United States.

So that was definitely a big challenge.

- But in all of your stories though, with all of the challenges, with all of the hardships, and what have you, you're all very successful and you met the challenges.

Ushu pointed out that life is not, you know, it's hard and it could be harder for some, but we have to push through those challenges.

Well, I just want to invite anyone in the audience that may have your own immigration story or perhaps a question for one of the panelists.

There are microphones in either aisle, just to go up to the microphone and I will be, you'll catch my eye and I will then open the floor to you.

So we'd love to have your input in this conversation as well as we talk a little bit about the Statue of Liberty that has become a symbol of the role of immigration.

That role that it plays in shaping of the United States of America.

And since the statue was a gift to the United States from France, Lady Liberty herself is kind of an immigrant, I think.

Yet the notion of America as a melting pot is at odds with the reality of how immigrants have been viewed at various times throughout the country and the evolution of the country and since the construction of the sculpture.

So let's talk about that contradiction, where we have Lady Liberty and we have these issues before us confronting immigrants as they come in.

So, Ushu, let's start with you.

- Sure.

- In viewing this and dealing in your professional career and even personally, how do you manage to make sense of that contradiction?

- Well, I don't know.

I think in the world today, we have to be able to reconcile a bunch of things to be able to survive.

I saw people talk about how others feel about the Statue of Liberty and how others feel about it.

There are those who do not like it, there are those who, you know, appreciate the fact that it represents something very, very important to them.

To me, it's a thing about trying to reconcile the two and find the middle ground.

It's not about disagreeing on everything.

And I think what we've seen in this country today is people tend to disagree and move to extreme ends in almost every single conversation.

That is not productive at all.

You know, it's gotta be all of us trying to push towards the middle and finding that middle ground that unites us on every debate, whether it's very (indistinct) like immigration or it could be something else.

- Well, you went, you were here in Scranton, you were schooled in Scranton.

You're making your career in Scranton.

Do you have any particular stories that you can share about you know, about being welcomed or being pushed off?

- Correct.

Yeah, I think there is this assumption that, you know, there are a lot people who are just, you know, projecting that sort of hate towards immigrants.

But I also think it's very important to recognize that there are people who sacrifice their time and effort every day to help our families.

So I'm always very appreciative of many volunteers, you know, independent of these organizations that help resettle us, help transition us into the American society.

They do everything they can to help our families fully transition.

And these are not just young people in their 20s, these are older folks in their 70s and 80s.

So you can imagine if someone at that age is sacrificing their life to help a family from the Congo, you know, or from somewhere else, you can see how, you know, that really brings a lot of meaning to that.

So I like to, I think, you know, pause a little bit and say, "Hey, listen, we may talk about people, you know, filled with hate and pushing very, very strong anti-immigrant, anti-refugee sentiments, but there are also very wonderful people that do great work every day."

But besides that, I think one thing I've come to realize is that we don't seize this immigration opportunity to discuss racism, a little bit productive in a way.

Let me explain.

What I've seen over the last eight years now that we've lived in the US.

There are a lot of people who pretend to be, let me just say the way it is, very pro-black, very pro-immigrant, very pro refugees, but they're not practical.

And to me, I think that's the problem.

If we're talking about issues, let's be practical.

You know, you'll see people go on TV and say things, but these people have never invited a black family, a Latino family in their homes to share a meal.

How do you expect your kids will realize that, well, the issue of immigration, the issue of racism, for example, in this country can be addressed, you know, by having families meet and sit down and talk about these issues.

You know, I'm also extremely disappointed that I think in the US, there is not a lot of effort to push for an open reconciliation for, you know, whether it's slavery, you know, all these complex issues that this country has had.

There is not a lot of push for that open reconciliation.

Like what was done in South Africa, for example.

They called for the truth and reconciliation, the Truth and Reconciliation Commission shared by the late Bishop Desmond Tutu, where people can freely talk about race in a very productive way.

You know, so I think what is missing in all, what's every single discussion we talk, is the practicality of what we are talking about.

You know, and it's some of the solutions to these issues are very, very simple.

But I think we are not open to accepting the fact that, you know, we're not gonna resolve them just through talking.

You know, let's be practical.

That's one thing I've learned.

- Jenny, Alejandra, would you like to follow up on any of his comments or perspectives?

- Yes, I think I agree with what he's saying.

I think in this country, we see very extreme parallels where either you're with me or against me.

And I think we lose the humanity in that.

And I think if we look at the similarities that we have as human beings, we have much more in common than different.

But this society, because of different factors, focuses on the negatives or on the things that we have different instead of the ones that we have in common.

Such as we all want to be safe, we all want to have a home, we all want our children to have better lives than the ones that we had.

I don't think anyone disagrees with that.

And so if we have conversations and open, even if we disagree, just open to listening to that other human being, we will find that we have more in common than different.

- Again, inviting your comments or questions.

And all you have to do is step up to one of the microphones and I will give you the floor.

It is true that we seem to concentrate on what divides us rather than what unites us.

And after all, all these immigration stories are based on the desire to make things better for my family, for myself and my family.

And I mean, to tell you the truth, I have an, you know, immigration story myself, I'm only second generation American.

All of my grandparents were born in what we always called in our house, the old country, which was Slovakia, which wasn't even a country back then.

When they were born, it was part of the Austro-Hungarian empire.

And I had grandparents who came in the 1890s, and grandparents who came just after the turn of the century, 20th century.

They came to Northeastern Pennsylvania because my both grandfathers were coal miners.

My father was a coal miner.

And why?

They want something better.

They needed something better.

They wanted to improve.

And Jenny, in your work with STARS at Marywood University, this is a program that, it reminds me a little bit back in those days to try to make it a little bit better for the immigrants.

For instance, Marywood wasn't even around when my grandparents were trying to make it a little bit better.

And so it took the churches.

The churches came together and they had organizations.

There were Slovak organizations, Polish organizations, there were Lithuanian, and they would have their own banking system and their own insurance and things of that sort.

But now we have a better organization so that we have a university to support STARS.

And this, your program is set up to provide this kind of support, right?

- Correct.

So the STARS program really started off as this academic enrichment support, but it has really evolved into providing other supports that not only benefit the child, but the family unit.

So really through the STARS program, what we're trying to do is bridge resources and have access to equitable opportunities for the youth and for the families.

Whether it's through educational opportunities, whether it's understanding all the diverse career paths that Northeastern Pennsylvania has to offer, whether it's through a community college, a trade school, apprenticeships, or your traditional four year college.

But really, this program was developed in response to the growing immigrant community, especially among the Hispanic and Latinx community.

Because one of the biggest challenges is the language barrier.

You know, growing up, you know, when your family has not gone through public education or are the first to be going through workforce development or you know, just trying to navigate all different types of institutions in our society, it can be very overwhelming.

So again, through the STARS program, we're trying to bring down some of those challenges and barriers by creating this bridge, by introducing this information and community members and resources to the Hispanic and Latinx community, but also to bring awareness to the existing community that has been here for a very long time about all of the great things that this new growing immigrant community is bringing to our Northeastern Pennsylvania.

So it is a combination of working together, but more than anything, is to provide access.

Access to resources and to opportunities that already exist here and to bring awareness about the growing and changing needs of a changing demographic in Northeastern Pennsylvania.

- Well, we have a question from the audience, and could you identify yourself?

Well, I don't think we need you to identify yourself, Bill, but anyway, identify yourself and ask your question.

- Bill Hudon from Orangeville.

Thanks and thanks to all the panelists taking part.

It just seems to me as though what we're talking about here is a theme that is right inside the episode that we watched, the interplay between inclusion and exclusion.

Inclusion being the idealistic goal of the United States of America, and exclusion being the practical reality of how we operate day by day.

And so what I was wondering is if the panelists, any who are willing to, interested in addressing it, might have an idea about a change or two or three that could be made to US immigration policy or procedure that might improve the policy and procedure, might kind of get us from the practical reality closer to the idealistic goal.

- Any suggestions on how we can reform, Alejandra.

- So Ushu, Jenny, and I have talked about immigration a little bit.

- Just a little background is that our immigration laws have not been updated for about 30 years and you know, obviously things change and in this very quickly changing world that we live in, 30 years is almost an eternity, so.

- So one of the things that I, related to policies and laws, I think is the need to look at the root causes of why immigrants are moving, right?

So there are things like maybe job opportunity or moving because of other reasons, but the majority of the immigrants that are coming is because safety, or yes, safety or lack of resources.

I mean, very poor.

And so they have to move.

And so I think if the countries who are receiving the immigrants were to have conversations and say, "Let's look at the root causes of why immigrants are coming", then they'll be able to provide a conversation for people to still maintain their safety and be able to be, stay in their native countries and immigration be an option, but not a necessity.

- That seems like a big problem to solve because it doesn't only involve the United States, it involves another sovereign nation.

Ushu?

- Well, I don't know.

I want to divert a little bit from what Alejandra is saying 'cause I like to be diplomatic.

But the thing is, her suggestion is great.

I think we have to start from the roots.

Where is this all coming from?

Many of us come to this country from countries that were ravaged.

It could be extreme poverty or something else.

It could be a natural disaster that is driving people, like Haiti, for example.

But I, well, I think if we just look at what's happening here with immigration, I like to think of immigration as very central to national security.

And not in a sense of trying to like, you know, kick people out of the country.

What I'm saying is, I've looked at numbers in the past and what I've seen is there is a pattern that there is a shrinking population in terms of the age.

There is a very smaller age of Americans, younger compared to the older ones.

So you're having more older folks than the young ones.

And to me, I think that's a problem.

Today we talk about the US strength to compete with countries like China and others at the global stage.

And there is just no way you'll fight that without a strong population, without a very young population.

You need a very young population that is ingenious, that is, you know, very involved.

And I don't think people in their 60s, 70s, 80s will be that kind of population.

So if there is an aging issue, I think one of the ways to address that is to let, you know, immigration flourish, but in a productive way.

We're not calling for, you know, let's say, you know, just let people in.

It should be in an organized manner, but also, I think the process has to be, you know, faster.

The process of getting people into this country, it takes so long.

Like my family, it took us, I mean, it was an immigration for refugee settlement, but it took us about, you know, four or five years to get here.

I think that's terrible.

It's not only people who are coming to milk this country, as people want to put it, that are coming here.

There are people who are genuinely coming here, majority of people who are coming here, whether they're refugees or immigrants, they're coming here to work and make things better, like you said.

They're coming here to contribute towards, you know, the better of this country.

So, I don't know, I think that's a very loaded question, which requires a little bit of diplomacy.

But you know, what I would say is, you know, let's get some work done here in terms of how we welcome people, let's expedite the process, and let's not see immigration as a burden.

For me, as an African, we believe that a place that welcomes people is a place that is full of blessings.

So if you see people coming to your home, you know you're blessed.

And I think this country is blessed.

But don't turn away that blessing by, you know, trying to block people from coming to you.

You know, whether it's surviving, eating, dressing, and everything, much as people will think it's the work of their hands, for many Christians, you know, they believe that it's the work of God.

You don't raise your children, it's God that raises them.

'Cause a lot of people have kids, not all of them will raise these kids.

So I think, you know, in God we trust needs to be given a little bit of meaning.

So yeah.

- Jenny, do you have any suggestions for our leadership in Washington on how we can improve the immigration policy?

- I think I agree with everything you're both saying.

I think if there was one thing that really, if there could be an emphasis on changing, would be the decriminalization of immigrants.

Because immigrants have been used as scapegoats for many, many issues that are happening in the country.

And I think for national security reasons, but really at the core of it, racism has played a huge role in the development of these very punitive and restrictive immigration policies.

And they have only worsened, become more punitive and more restrictive as the years have passed.

And I think all of that has created a lot of family separation.

So by criminalizing immigrants for simple things that are oftentimes civil matters outside of the immigration world, for a misdemeanor or for sometimes even you're driving without a driver's license because in the state that you live, they do not allow you to have access to a driver's license because you don't have the right immigration documentation.

But how are people supposed to get to and from work?

Because most immigrants, whether they have citizenship or not, have to survive, have to work, because they, you know, there's this misconception that people are milking systems here.

You're not eligible for these things because you don't have the right immigration status or you're not a citizen.

So if we could work on something, would it be to decriminalize some of the civil not extreme issues, you know, like driving without a driver's license.

I think those are things that have been in put in place to try to deport more and more families often, individuals, and that is creating a lot of family separation and trauma.

- So there could be, for instance, there could be a special type of driver's license, saying it is a driver's license for a migrant in transition to, in the path, but then we have to find.

So decriminalization we have with you.

What are the root causes?

Let's try to get at that.

Okay, that's a tough nut to crack, I think.

And then let's fix the system so it's become more efficient.

- Correct.

- And we have another question from an audience member.

Please identify yourself.

- My name is (indistinct).

I'm a legal immigrant from Denmark and I wanna share a little bit about the story and a little bit about what you say making it a little more easy.

- [Larry] Could you step a little closer to the mic, please?

- Sure.

I tried to do all this legal, but I can tell you, it has been a long, long journey to do it legal.

All the rules that had to come in just made it crazy.

I was here in United States when I applied for it, but I had to go back to Denmark to get an interview 'cause the embassy had to do it.

It couldn't be done here.

So I had to go back to Denmark to have a five minute interview with an American girl.

You have to have your fingerprints taken.

I live in Hughesville.

I had to go to York, two hours drive to get my fingerprints taken and so on and so on.

It caused so much trouble.

It took me a year just to get this done legal.

For simple things.

And it could have been done.

And I'm gonna end this to tell you a little story about Statue of Liberty.

I've been to high school here in 1966, so I have a lot of connections to United States and I always visited Statue of Liberty and once I visited, these sweet people took me up in the flame, in the arm.

I have been up there.

Yes, I love the Statue of Liberty.

But make immigration legal, immigration easier would be helpful.

Agree on that.

Thank you very much.

- It almost seems as if we're trying to keep people out, you know, by making people jump through hoops, which is again, contrary to Emma Lazarus's lines "Give me your tired and your poor".

And so the history of immigration in our country has been one that is full of crests and troughs, inviting immigrants in because we needed the workers and then keeping some folks out and then realizing we have to have a better way to do that.

And we heard in the documentary about Ellis Island and that played such a seminal role in the history of immigration here in the United States.

At times, more than 1 million people were processed per year.

That dwarfs anything that we're looking at at the southern border.

And it's a situation that has, you know, created so much divisiveness today down at the southern border.

But, you know, thinking about the story of Ellis Island and what you know about it, is there anything that we can learn from that particular part of American history and how immigrants were brought into the country, how they were processed through that and how they were then, you know, the different distribution methods of getting people where they needed to be.

Do you know, do you have any comment on that at all?

Anything that we could learn from Ellis Island?

Well, let's talk a little bit about the Statue of Liberty.

Have any of you ever visited the statue?

Jenny, tell me about your experience.

- It was impressive.

I mean, I've been to it once and it was last year with my mother and my daughter.

We got up to the, what was it, pedestal and I actually never saw the chains.

So it was until I was watching this that I tried to go back to my pictures of the actual, that I was taking to try to find the chains.

Unfortunately, I couldn't really see it.

But it was a very important moment for me because with the little bit of history I had about the Statue of Liberty, that I was aware of, I was able to at least have a conversation with my daughter about the representation of what I thought the Statue of Liberty was for many immigrants.

Which for me, it was hope, you know, that in the Statue of Liberty, a lot of these immigrants see, get a sense of hope no matter how hard the hardships are in the United States.

Because oftentimes, it is hard to live in the United States, especially for certain immigrant communities.

But when immigrants come here, they say, "Yes, it's hard, but sometimes it's not comparable to what we had to experience at home."

So there is still that sense of hope.

That doesn't mean that, you know, there isn't room for improvement.

And just being able to see the Statue of Liberty with my mother and what they said.

We were walking around and we just heard so many different languages.

I mean, the language that you least heard was the English language.

So that was very interesting to me as well as we walked around and we went upstairs.

But I thought it was a really great experience for my daughter, who is a second generation immigrant and being able to experience that with my mother, who has been here for almost 40 years and had never been to the Statue of Liberty, even when she lived in New York City.

But she would always say, "I would see the Statue of Liberty and I would always think like, wow, like, I can't believe I'm here, that I'm actually seeing the Statue of Liberty."

But she had never had the opportunity to actually visit.

- Perhaps some of you have visited the Statue of Liberty and maybe you can share some of your response and reaction to that, but Alejandra, I'll go to you.

- Yes.

So similar to Jenny, it's very impressive, I think, when you see it right in front of you.

And I also didn't know about the chains, which is very interesting what it was, the meaning that initially it was supposed to be and then the meaning that people have given it over the time.

But I specifically went to, in addition to the Statue of Liberty, also Ellis Island, and learned about the history of how immigrants came into the country and how different it was or the pictures and the descriptions that you read compared to how it is now.

And it just paused me to ponder, can we be different about our immigration process and what was it then that supported the immigrants and now, as Jenny mentioned, criminalizes them?

So how can we change that?

- Ushu, we'll change subjects a little bit.

And I wanna know more about your work and your organization, Profficially, right?

Kind of an interesting name, Profficially.

So what need did you see?

And your company is now filling this need, this void that you identified.

- Correct, so I'm blessed that I'm able to speak about seven languages and I'm working on Espanol.

(everyone laughing) So besides French and English, I also speak about five or six African languages.

And what I realized is I think many companies will rush to make a phone call to some company that provides interpretation services.

And what they forget is in Africa, we have many of these languages.

And you may find that there are variations of just one single language.

For example, I come from Eastern Congo and the Swahili we speak there is completely different from the standard Swahili spoken in Tanzania.

If you have a family on the phone with an interpreter who is speaking standard Swahili, they're gonna miss out almost 70% of what was said.

So I felt there was, I think, a need for me to just, you know, like, come up with my own company and offer the translation interpretation service in the dialect that is unique to these families.

My target originally was to address the families that are based in Scranton.

But now I have, you know, small contracts with other companies out in Ohio, for example.

They have a very huge Congolese refugee population in Dayton, Ohio, and Cleveland.

And you know, so I make some of my money from those places, doing interpretation on Zoom.

But yeah, I think that's one thing that gets missed out.

People think, well, it's just Swahili.

It's not every Swahili.

The Swahili that we speak, just as a language, one example of the languages is, is different based on region and people are missing out a lot.

It was very difficult when it came to these phone calls.

And, you know, I'm trying to address that.

Well, having successfully been able to fully cover the needs within Scranton because while there are conditions, again, I had my training with Resettlement Support Center way back in 2014.

'Cause to be an interpreter, you have to go through the training and get certified.

So some companies will tend to think, "Well, it's just refugee based.

Maybe you need something broader."

And I'm trying to work on that.

But I'm looking at having, you know, to team up with let's say Geisinger, or you know, these other hospitals.

And I know with the county, I'm working with the county court system, for example, to make sure that when our families have issues, I'm involved and I'm able to be able to interpret and translate documents in the Swahili that they speak, that they know.

I also speak Kinyarwanda and I speak Dangaleat, But these have, you know, they're not spoken that much.

It's mostly Swahili.

- Alejandra, now as you're Coordinator for Community Outreach for Geisinger College of Medicine.

So just briefly tell us what that entails, and more particularly, are there any of the student doctors that are immigrants, that are coming to the Geisinger Commonwealth Medicine College for their training?

- Yes.

So basically, I am the person who links the students to the community.

As part of their first year of medical school, they have to do a community project.

And I am the person that links the need of the community agency to a want of the student.

And then they work with that agency for about one academic year and learn about that agency, what community they serve.

And also, they learn too what the community is like because many of them will be physicians in the future in this area.

- And are there any physician student, student physicians that are immigrants that are learning here?

- Yes, yes, there are.

I forgot.

I think one of the graduation classes, it said that, I think, 64% of the student population spoke another language besides English.

Some of them are first generation, some are not.

But I think it's great that when they go out in the community and our growing diverse community sees that there are physicians, future physicians that look like them, that speak like them, that have a similar experience, it's like a comfort level that says, "Okay, I know that you are similar to the path that I have and then you're gonna be a future physician here in this area."

- Some have said that in the United States of America, since we have such a low birth rate in America, that we really need to have immigrants coming in just to fill the jobs.

And as I read, there were so many jobs in a lot of different sectors, high tech jobs down to working in agriculture.

Is that something that you have heard as well in your dealings with the people in your professional capacities?

Yes.

- If I can jump in.

Unfortunately, we can talk about jobs.

One thing that is not fully addressed is the issue of language barrier.

Many people come with skills here, and I'll give an example of my father, who is a French teacher.

He's not able to teach because his English is just poquito, right?

And so I think if the language is addressed, that can easily be a solution to, you know, failing to fill in jobs.

But as long as there is a language barrier issue, it's gonna be very difficult, I think, for some immigrants to be able to jump into these jobs.

- Yeah, that seems to be the overarching theme of this conversation is this language barrier, this incapacity to actually communicate with one another.

And the whole solution to this issue lies, as you said, in sitting down and communicating and just relating to one another as human beings to human beings.

'Cause as you pointed out, I think it was you, Alejandra, we all want the same things, don't we?

We want safety.

We want to raise our families.

We want to have a purpose in life and to find a way that we can lift ourselves up.

Jenny, I'm gonna give you a last word.

What can you impart in this conversation to us as the last word?

- I mean, the United States is a country of hope.

It's a country where a lot of people have been able to do so many amazing great things.

And there have been many immigrants that have came to this country looking for a better opportunity.

And the United States continues to be seen as this land of opportunity for many people around the world.

And I think that as we talk more about this, we're going to embed in our children, you know, that it is okay to, you know, welcome foreigners, to welcome new Americans because they form a part of the United States and they're making beautiful things happen in this country, so.

- Well, Jenny, Alejandra, Ushu, thank you so much for sharing time with us and sharing your experiences.

And thank you, audience, for being a part of this edition of "Conversations for the Common Good" "Immigration Stories: From the Statue of Liberty to Northeast Pennsylvania."

A community conversation.

And thanks to the Commonwealth University of Pennsylvania for hosting this event here at Carver Hall on the campus of Bloomsburg University.

You can watch this program again online at WVIA.org/conversations or through the WVIA app.

From Bloomsburg University, I'm Larry Vojtko.

Thank you so much for watching.

(light music) (audience clapping) (light music) - [Announcer] This program was made possible through a grant from WETA Iconic America.

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