Making It Grow is brought to you in part by certified South Carolina grown helps consumers identify, find and buy South Carolina products.

McLeod Farms in McBee, South Carolina.

This family farm offers seasonal produce including over 22 varieties of peaches.

Additional funding provided by International Paper and the South Carolina Farm Bureau Federation and Farm Bureau Insurance.

♪ Well hello and welcome to Making It Grow!

We're so glad that you could join us tonight.

I'm Amanda McNulty.

I'm a Horticulture Agent with Clemson Extension, and this show is a collaboration between SCETV and Clemson University, and gosh, it's been going on for over twenty years.

That's kind of exciting.

A nice long run, isn't it?

And tonight we're very happy that we have again with us, Stephanie Turner, and Stephanie is the Horticulture Agent for Clemson up in Greenwood.

Stephanie and Special... Special will show up on occasion during our talk.

Stephanie, I think Greenwood really has some exciting things that happened as we roll into May and June.

<Stephanie> Yes, I encourage you, if you can make a trip to Greenwood this summer.

In May they will be rolling out their amazing topiary display.

It's a partnership between the Chamber of Commerce and the City of Greenwood, with over forty different living topiaries and different types of animals and all kinds of things displayed around the town of Greenwood, and it's really something else to see, and you can go to scfestivalofflowers.org to hear all about the events that come throughout June along with the topiary display.

<Amanda> It's a wonderful thing, and many things are outdoors, and then Greenwood is just a lovely city, and be sure while you're there to go by the monarch way station.

Stephanie, it really is a remarkable city, isn't it?

<Stephanie> Yes, it's also a Bee City USA.

I have a number of pollinator gardens up town.

<Amanda> Yeah, it really is just a great place.

I can't wait to come up and visit again, and I'm gonna get you to give me a tour.

How about that?

<Stephanie> That would be wonderful.

<Amanda> Okay, Keith Mearns is the Horticulturist for Historic Columbia.

Keith, how many properties is it?

I just can't keep my mind wrapped around how much responsibility you have.

<Keith> We manage six properties here in downtown Columbia.

<Amanda> And it's a good many acres if I'm not mistaken.

<Keith> Yeah, just over fourteen all together.

<Amanda> Well, and Keith, I think, considering that you don't have a very large staff and you get so much done, that you have been recognized in a very special way.

Tell us what's happened.

<Keith> Well, I have, I am very fortunate that my superiors here at Historical Columbia nominated me for, and I received the Emerging Horticulturist Award from the American Horticulturist Society for 2021.

<Amanda> And out of the whole country, you are the one.

I mean, this is really a big deal.

We're so very proud of you.

<Keith> Really, I am quite honored to receive this award, and I'm excited for everybody to be able to see that and for Historic Columbia to be able to have so much wonderful national exposure.

<Amanda> And Keith, the gardens, although a lot of things have been limited as far as events and indoor activities, but if I'm not mistaken, the gardens are open for people to come and enjoy.

Is that correct?

<Keith> That is correct.

Yeah, our grounds have been open for some months now, and as always, they are free to the public to come in during our open hours of Tuesday through Sunday.

<Amanda> And I hope people take advantage of that.

And then also, you know more about new plants than anybody I've ever known, and y'all look are gonna have some plants available to people, and I imagine they'll be some things that are new that you'll have on there, but there's one plant in particular that is going to be available, so tell us how people find out what is available and about this very interesting historic plant.

So if you'll go to our website at Historic Columbia dot org, you will see a link to the plants that are available from us, and there are a number of them on there, that kind of rotate out throughout different times of the year, and one of the really fun ones that I almost always have available, is the Herbemont Grape.

Now this is a hybrid grape.

It's a cross between a European wine grape and one of our native species.

It was discovered here in Columbia by Nicholas Herbemont from the eighteen teens, if you can believe it.

It's a really hearty grape.

It does well for us, and apparently, you can make wine from this, so we're excited to be able to have that available.

<Amanda> And you said also for those who would rather just pick up their wine at the store, it also has a nice flavor, and you can use it as a table grape as well.

<Keith> Absolutely, you can.

it does have some seeds in it, but it's got a good flavor right off the vine.

<Amanda> Well, there's nothing wrong with a couple of seeds, is there?

I think for people who grow plants, I think we think seeds are very important, so thanks so much for telling us about that.

We really do appreciate it.

Terasa Lott, of course, is in charge of the Master Gardener Program from an administrative standpoint, which is a big job, but she also finds time to be a major part of the Making It Grow team.

And Terasa, usually you start us off with some photographs of gardens that some of our viewers have shared with us.

Is that gonna happen tonight?

<Terasa> It is.

Gardens of the Week has become one of my favorite parts of the show each week, where we take what I call a virtual field trip around the state to see what you're doing in your yards and gardens.

First up, we have a photograph from Marshall Rouse, and I think this one should be titled "Three Little Birds," and those three birds happen to be cedar waxwings.

The Oconee bell is the subject of Kim Mitchell's photograph, and this is a native wildflower with a relatively small range, so how neat!

I think she said it grows in her backyard.

The vibrant hot pink flowers of Ranunculus were sent to us by Dana Jean, and then we're wrapping up with Brent Bryner's orchid.

He's got a Cymbidium orchid in flower, so I'm hoping that maybe he'll share some with me.

If you're ever in the Pee Dee, bring some this way.

Thanks everyone for all your submissions.

Now don't be shy.

If you haven't sent us a photo, we'd love to see your flowers, vegetables, herbs, or maybe even critters that are visiting your yard.

You're welcome to post them on our Facebook page or send them to me via email.

It's my entire first name Teresa at Clemson dot EDU.

<Amanda> Well, thank you, Terasa, and I know every day you always check people who submit questions and put them on Making It Grow's Facebook or that you get from various sources.

Is there a question that Stephanie you think might be able to help one of our viewers with?

<Terasa> I am sure there is.

Let's try this one.

A viewer wrote in and said that she had visited a big box store and saw a box of Liatris.

It was advertised as being a bee and butterfly magnet, so she would like our advice on if this is something good for her to add to her yard.

<Amanda> Well, since you're up there in a bee city, Stephanie, we hope that you can give us some help with this question.

<Stephanie> Sure, Amanda, so Liatris is a great native plant to South Carolina.

It's commonly known as "Gay Feather" or "Blazing Star," and so there are several species, a number of species that are native to South Carolina.

One that you might find in a big box store would be the Liatris spicata, and those will come often times in those big displays of air roots and bulbs in the spring for summer blooms, and they'll be in the form of a corm, and so it's a bare root, sort of squat flat ball shaped item, and you will want to follow your package directions on how to plant it.

It only needs to go about three inches deep or so, and it will make this long, tall spike with these very feathery purple flowers on them, and they're very attractive to butterflies as a nectar source, and also actually a food source or a host plant for some moth larva, and so it's a versatile plant too.

It's good for dry areas or wet areas, either... or.

It can be found in wetlands.

You can install it in like a rain garden because it can tolerate periods of moisture, and then periods of drought.

It'll bloom late summer, so July, August, September, and it's really pretty if you plant it in large groupings, so you have a number of spikes.

<Amanda> So you just plant it as a swath.

And sometimes with the corm, it's a little hard to tell what's up and what's down.

If you get your reading glasses out, can you usually tell what's the bottom and what's the top, and if you can't, can you just put it on its side?

<Stephanie> So, yeah, if you put it on its side, you'll have the shoots will bend to go up, and it'll be okay.

It's trouble if you put it upside down.

You'll have a hard time, but if you look close enough, you'll be able to tell the top in the center where there's a pointy shoot coming out, and the bottom will have more of a fibrous flat growth of fibrous area, but some of those ones that, if you get them in a big bag at the box store, can be kind of a small corm.

You can order them from... online sales people have them available sometimes.

There will be a larger size.

You can look for a number one size.

<Amanda> Well, thank you, and I didn't know that you could get a number one size, so if you want to go to a little extra expense, you can maybe have a larger area that would give you more of an immediate display.

<Stephanie> Yeah, a bigger size will give you a bigger plant that first year, but they will grow.

In about three years, you'll probably want to start dividing them, and spread them or share them.

<Amanda> Well, thank you.

It sounds like a wonderful thing to have, especially since it blooms kinda late sometimes.

We're so glad after the long summer to see something fresh coming up in the garden.

We appreciate it a lot, Stephanie.

<Stephanie> Sure.

<Amanda> Okay.

Barbara Smith is our great friend at Clemson.

She's part of the Home and Garden Information Center staff, and she does lots of gardening.

I think it's Cricket Trail Farm, if I'm not mistaken, and she just loves daffodils, and I think you, if you're not already a daffodil aficionado, by the time you finish watching this segment, you certainly will be.

Today, I'm speaking with my good friend Barbara Smith.

I wish I could be there in her beautiful yard in Pendleton but this is the next best thing.

Barbara is of course a horticulturist with the Home and Garden Information Center.

And Barbara remind people of what you've managed to do on Crooked Trail.

<Barbara> Well, as I have spoken to you before Amanda, I'm a plant geek.

Cut me.

I bleed green.

I told you that before.

Today we're going to be talking about daffodils, which are some of my favorite flowers.

<Amanda> They are evident in old gardens because they are so persistent Let's talk a little bit about the scientific name and the and the common name and the multitude of different types that exist, please.

>> People get daffodils and the term daffodil and Narcissus confused.

So to make it very simple, Daffodils are the common names for these beautiful flowers.

And then Narcissus is the genus part of the scientific name for these flowers.

It's interchangeable.

You'll see them called both.

Both are correct.

But it's a very simple explanation, the difference between it.

The interesting thing about daffodils is that most of them are native to the Mediterranean, but some were brought here from China and Asia.

They don't know if early colonists brought them with him when they immigrated to America, but the first recorded history of daffodils being brought to the United States or shipped to the United States was in 1740 when Peter Collison sent 40 varieties to John Bartram in Philadelphia.

<Amanda> Whew that's a lot.

And I think it's fun to talk about the way Narcissus, the name comes.

Apparently there was a Greek god, who if he wasn't handsome, he sure thought he was.

And he stared at his image in the water to such an extent that they said "We're just going to turn you into a flower."

<Barbara> I love that story.

I do.

<Amanda> And they are beautiful.

But both were there so many different types, from teeny tiny ones to great big yellow ones to white ones.

So, talk a little bit about how the community of daffodil lovers has kind of divided them up, if you would.

<Barbara> The American Daffodil Society really writes them in about 11 different groups.

One group, the first one, that I love so much are the bulbocodiums.

And they look exactly like old hoop petticoats and they're called hoop daffodils.

And you usually see them in whites and yellows but just something not for everybody.

It's a very interesting, unusual if you want something a rather bizarre in your garden to plant.

<Amanda> Then Barbara, if you would, just go through some of the others and give us an example of one or two, please.

<Barbara> The Cyclamineus have a reflex petal that pulls back in very small cups on them.

A lot of blooms on the stem.

A couple of good examples are T'et a T'et and Jet Fire.

The Doubles are multi petaled, just beautiful ones.

Candy Princess, Golden Ducat, Tahiti, White Lion, Erlicheer are good examples.

The Jonquillia are the ones that are very petite.

They have small cups several flowers per stem and extremely fragrant.

If you get a bouquet of these in your house, you will smell them all over the house.

Pipit is one of my favorites because it's a tiny little yellow flower with around the flush, the face of the cup is white.

So, it's lovely.

Blushing lady is another one that has a pink cup with yellow petals.

The large cups - These are the giants of the daffodil world.

Dinner plate, Ice Follies is probably one of the best ones you can plant if you want to multiply and come back year after year after year.

Fortissimo.

I love some of the names that they have.

They named one after Slim Whitman.

Bella Vista, Flower Record.

Poeticus is one of my daughter's favorites.

It's large white petals, has a small flat cup and the interesting thing about it, is that the cup is yellow but it's reamed either with red or green and two of those are Actaea and Pheasant's Eye The small cups, large petals with the small cups.

Barrett Browning is one.

Lorikeet is another one that's really nice.

The Tanzenetta have clusters of two to twenty dainty flowers.

Short cups and a very intense fragrance.

Cheerfulness this is the category your paper whites that a lot of people are familiar with, fall into.

And also the Geranium is white with a little orange cup.

The Triandrus have two more flowers per stem.

They do have the reflex petals that bend back in small cups but they point down instead of pointing up.

And very fragrant, Thalia is a beautiful, pure white one.

Katie Heath is another lovely one.

And then the big trumpet cups The cup stems out beyond the petals.

Chromocolor... Dutch Master.

One called Las Vegas.

That is really a pretty one.

Mount Hood is one of my favorites because it's a pure white.

And Spellbinder is also beautiful one.

It's sort of a lemon yellow.

It's kind of shot through with some white.

<Amanda> And then I think Barbara, some of the ones - some of the first ones that used to collect from family members fall into the split corona category.

Is that correct?

<Barbara> A few of them do.

The ones that I really collected from the old family ones were more of the really old fashioned types but with the split corona, they're very fancy.

It looks like you took a pair of scissors and split the corona in little pieces.

They're pressed back against the petals.

Cassata, Orangery and Slice of Life are some examples of that.

Now, in my own garden, when I first started out and didn't have a lot of funds to buy plants, I collected a lot of daffodils from my great-grandmother's ruins from her garden her name was Vicie Ginnings Holloway in Chappells.

I found the old fashion Jonquils that we love.

The one, the Campernellis, which just beautiful tiny little yellow flowers bloom prolifically.

Some of the Leucojums, which are really not true Narcissus but the Summer Snowflake or snow drops that they're called, but my garden is full of those.

I've talked before about floral genealogy so this is a very important part of my floral genealogy, I have in flowers from her garden.

<Amanda> One thing I think that this indicates is that they don't require a whole amount of care, a huge amount of care to continue to be beautiful.

So, talk a little bit about the care.

the fertilization, and the important things to make sure that they come back every year, Barbara.

<Barbara> Daffodils or narcissists are normally planted in October, November.

I have planted them, some as late as December if I want to delay my bloom time with them.

You'll see them for sale in September.

Don't plant them then.

That's a little too hot.

Keep them in a cool place.

When you do you choose your planting site, they'll grow anywhere from full sun to part shade but won't bloom well if they're in deep shade.

Good drainage.

They do not like it if the soil stays soggy or wet and moderately fertile.

The biggest mistake people make with daffodils as far as fertility goes is they put too much fertilizer.

too much nitrogen will cause the bulbs to produce a lot of foliage and very few flowers.

<Amanda> And Barbara in the past we've talked with people who do massive plantings like at Riverbanks, where they have good soil fertility overall they don't bother to put a little teaspoon or tablespoon of fertilizer in the bottom of each hole, as sometimes the companies want you to do.

They want you to buy that fertilizer and often that is not necessary.

<Barbara> No, it's not, Amanda.

The biggest thing in educating people how to properly fertilize, first of all, They here say this over and over again is soil test.

and I preach about not going out and over applying any phosphorus based fertilizers or bone meal without having the results of the soil test.

It's key.

Daffodils truly can be left alone if you do have to add a fertilizer, then you would do something like a 5-10-10, if that.

But I don't fertilize mine.

Mine bloom well.

<Barbara> The problem that most people have with not having their daffodils come back is because they should be looking at something else instead of the foliage.

Once the flower dwindles, you can cut the flower off if you want to, but that's a lot of work.

But they're going to have to replenish the bulb and that means they've got to photosynthesize.

So tell us I think you just need to look somewhere else because the big mistake is people say, Oh, I can't stand to see that foliage anymore.

<Barbara> It yellows.

It starts the #*nesting and people look at the yellow foliage and when you have a lot of daffodils, that's a lot of yellowing foliage you don't want to look at.

The biggest mistake people make, is that they cut it back immediately after blooms.

Well, you're not going to have flowers or much less bulb size next year.

I've seen people bend them over with a rubber band.

I've seen them braid them.

One thing is just ignore it.

The other thing is inter-plant your daffodils in your perennial and day lily beds and then as your perennials and day lilies emerge, they're hiding that foliage.

As soon as that foliage turns brown and totally dries up, you can just reach down with your hand and pick it up off the ground.

<Amanda> Okay.

And then, Barbara you say that a good practice is to photograph where they bloomed in your yard so next year you won't go out there and dig them up.

Is that correct?

<Barbara> Especially, when you want to add I add about several hundred bulbs to my garden every year in the fall.

Of course, when you start adding that many year after year you tend to forget that I put them here or not.

Worst feeling in the world is when you put that shovel in the ground or I have a drill that I have a bulb bit on the end of, and you hear it hit the bulbs.

So, what I do is either while the daffodils are in bloom or after they finish blooming I go around with my camera and photograph places in my yard that I want to add more to the next year.

One thing that I've had a lot of fun doing in my own garden is planning what I call daffodil rivers.

So, pathways that don't use normally I will intensely plant with daffodils there They bloom you have this beautiful river and then the foliage dies back.

And then the other ten months out of the year you're back to your path again.

<Amanda> Barbara, I think you're planting this tradition of loving daffodils and narcissus in your own grandchildren and I bet the day will come in the future when they'll be coming back to Crooked Trial Farms and saying, Oh gosh, I remember doing this with my grandmother and digging some up to take to their homes and continuing that tradition with their families >> When my children, Caroline and Paul were small one of their greatest joys was from me to say to them, Go pick an arm load of daffodils and bring them in the house.

They love doing that.

They still have just wonderful memories and my granddaughter's birthday is in November.

So, every November I shipped her a big box load of daffodil bulbs and she plants them and we talk about and learn the names.

>> How wonderful to start these traditions with families.

Thank you, Barbara, as always for sharing some of the highlights from your family's love of plants with us.

Barbara has an amazing collection of plants, so don't think that we've exhausted our segments with her.

I'm sure they'll be another fascinating one coming up in the future.

I was happy because I was visiting at Riverbanks Zoo and Diane Baker took me around to look for some things to put in my hat, and isn't it appropriate that there was some daffodils?

So in a gesture to Barbara's daffodils, I have some daffodils here.

I have some hellebores, and then I also have some snapdragons that she planted, so thanks to Riverbanks for helping me have a fun hat this time of year.

Terasa, Keith really...

I just can't imagine, he keeps up with so many different types of plants to make sure that every part of Historic Columbia is beautiful and interesting.

Is there a question that we think we maybe could get some special information from him about?

<Terasa> I think we have one that would be appropriate for Keith.

A viewer wrote in, saying that she'd like to incorporate sort of a tropical feel in a portion of her yard, and was thinking of adding some gingers but had no idea where to start, and could we point her in the right direction.

<Amanda> Mmhmm, well Keith, when I was little, my mother just had the old-fashioned ginger lilies and they smelled so good that I was certain if you ate the flower it would taste good, but that was a great disappointment.

But there are many more now than there were when I was a little girl.

Tell us about some of the ones that you enjoy, please.

<Keith> So, this is a great time to actually think about these things, because some of these subtropicals are finally starting to stir and come out of the ground for us, so it's a good time to figure out how many you've got and how many you might like to add.

And gingers are a really great subtropical for us, and as it turns out, there's kind of three plants generally, that people call ginger, and the one that you're talking about, the old fashioned ginger lily, is probably Hedychium.

There's a number of those.

There's two others people call ginger.

One is called Alpinia, and the other one is called Curcumama, so those three genera are what people are talking about with gingers in our yards.

So if we start with the old fashioned gingers, Hedychium, usually what people used to have is Hedychium coccineum, which gives you these beautiful orange flowers on probably four to five foot tall stems, and really a hardy plant for us as long as it has really good drainage, and that applies to all the gingers.

Another really nice Hedychium that I like to include in our gardens is Hedychium coronarium, and this one's got these beautiful white flowers, really big, and I think this one has probably one of the strongest fragrances of all the ginger lilies.

<Amanda> That's the one we had when I was a little girl, and it really is just intensely fragrant.

And Keith, one of the nice things about it, is that it can actually take some shade.

Is that not correct?

<Keith> It can, but it really is important to give it probably, I would say at least four hours of sun, just because they don't emerge til late, and that's all the time they've got to grow, but it really does help them amount to be able to grow as much as possible and put on a lot of plant mass before winter.

<Amanda> Yes, and what are some of the others that you think we might want to consider adding to our garden?

<Keith> Well, one of the really interesting ones is the Curcumas, and these are related to turmeric, and in fact a couple of these are in the same species as culinary turmeric, which is really interesting.

One of the really beautiful ones that I have at the garden is a variegated Curcuma.

This one's called 'Snowdrift.'

The leaves are heavily variegated in white, which does mean that this needs a little more shade than some of your other gingers so it doesn't burn, but really quite showy, and one of the bigger Curcumas we have is called 'Scarlet Fever' and it has these beautiful big pleated tropical leaves, and every now and then, you'll get these beautiful, what they called 'hidden ginger flowers.'

If you look down near the base of the leaves, there'll be these really pretty, tropical flower clusters down there.

<Amanda> Keith, I've noticed that this is a plant that usually you can share with people after a few years.

They seem to be relatively vigorous.

Has that been your experience?

<Keith> It is, and you do want to wait 'til they start growing, so you know how much you've got down, and so the plant doesn't get injured, but they're pretty easy to get up because their rhizomes don't grow very deeply, which is a good point to bring up because they do like to have some mulch on top of them for the winter because they're so shallow rooted.

<Amanda> But we found that in most of South Carolina, they are hearty and will come back.

<Keith> Yes, they will.

It's really important that they don't sit in any water during the winter, and that they have some mulch covering, and sometimes if you live in the northern part of the state, it's even a good idea to have them on the south side of maybe a part of your house, maybe something large that soaks up a good bit of winter sun.

It helps them out a little bit with the microclimate.

<Amanda> Keith, can these be found in some of our better local nurseries, or do you usually have to get them by mail order?

<Keith> Well, you can do both.

Now, there are some local nurseries around here who are starting to have these plants available, and there's a wonderful online nursery called Gingerwood Nursery, if you'll Google that name.

That's an excellent mail order nursery that specializes in gingers.

<Amanda> How do they do if you want to put them in a container?

It seems like that might be a good way to get you some of that wonderful... especially some of the ones with the really dramatic foliage.

Is that an option?

<Keith> That's a great option as long as they don't become too bound, because the way their rhizomes grow, they kind of creep in an almost linear fashion.

You don't want to have those going in circles too much in that pot, but just make sure it's nice rich garden soil, potting soil.

<Amanda> Okay, never want those encircling roots, do we?

<Keith> No.

<Amanda> Well, thank you, Keith, and what time of year is the best time to see the gingers at Historic Columbia properties?

<Keith> They start flowering probably in July for us.

<Amanda> Okay, alright.

Well, a good reason to get an umbrella and come on a nice day, and you could be in the shade while you enjoy the hard work that you and all of your fine helpers and your wonderful volunteers have done.

Appreciate that you're sharing this information with us.

Well, Terasa, while we've got Stephanie here with all of her years of horticultural knowledge, I'll bet there's a question that we can get her to help someone with.

<Terasa> Let's give this one a try.

A viewer wrote in and said my neighbor would like to share walking onions with me.

I'm intrigued, but I don't kn ow anything about this plant, so I'd like to know more before I decide to put it in my yard.

What do I need to know?

<Amanda> Right, Terasa, because sometimes if somebody really wants to give you something, it means that it might be a little bit of a problem.

Stephanie, what's the story on walking onions?

Do you think that it's a good thing to add to our gardens?

<Stephanie> Yes, I love the Egyptian walking onion or the top set onion.

I had them in my raised garden beds in the backyard, and they're not very invasive, even though they are called the walking onion.

What they do is they set little bulbs at the top of the green growth, and when those get heavy enough at the end of the season, it pulls down, and the growth falls, and the bulbs set a new plant.

So, if you look, I've got one here from my garden.

<Amanda> Alright.

<Stephanie> And some little sets that fell from last year.

<Amanda> So that grows on the top?

<Stephanie> Yes.

<Amanda> Good heavens, fascinating!

<Stephanie> These little sets will grow up on the top, and then they'll fall over, then root, and that's how it gets that 'walking onion' name, and all parts of this plant are edible.

You can harvest these top sets and eat it, or you can leave them on the plant to proliferate and give you more plants.

You can eat the green part here, like a scallion.

Then you can harvest the mature bulbs as well, but I will say they are hot.

They're a little bit spicier than a regular onion.

<Amanda> Well, for somebody who likes to keep several bottles of Tabasco and different kinds of hot sauces around, I think I would like that a little.

You don't have to use a whole lot.

Sometimes a little bit can be a nice addition, and with the bulb part at the bottom, I guess you could even saute that if you wanted to, couldn't you, Stephanie?

<Stephanie> Yeah, you can saute 'em, pan fry 'em, you know, anything you can do with a normal onion, you can do with these, and you can even share or save these over the winter to plant in the spring if you want, and that's a great way to... that's how it ends up being a pass along plant.

It's so easy because of the top sets.

<Amanda> Okay, well when I come up and have you give me a tour of Greenwood, I'm hoping that they'll maybe be one and I'll take a chance.

I think with two and a half acres I could probably plant some.

Don't you think that would be safe?

<Stephanie> They'll have plenty of room to walk.

[both laughing] <Amanda> Well, that was really fun, and you said it's a cross between a regular onion and a Welsh onion.

Is that correct?

<Stephanie> That's right.

It's the onion A. cepa variety, and the Welsh onion, which is the fistulosum.

<Amanda> Okay, well thanks a lot.

That was a lot of fun to learn about.

We sure do appreciate it.

I was very honored to be able to work with the Community Medical Center of Kershaw and for the free medical clinic and we went into virtual garden tours, and I hope that you will enjoy visiting this beautiful downtown Camden garden.

And today we're visiting the garden of Sarah and Al Reed in downtown Camden.

<Sarah> Good afternoon, Amanda, and thank you for having us.

I will tell you that Al and I are opposites, and so when we were building this house, I wanted to build a Japanese house, and Al was very afraid that I might die leaving him with a Japanese house in Camden, South Carolina, and he would be unable to sell it, so I'm a master of compromise, and if you look at our house and garden, you will see that the front of the house and the right side is a Lowcountry Charleston house.

<Amanda> Actually, I noticed that you even reflect the tradition of Kershaw County homes with the outer columns coming all the way to the ground.

<Sarah> That's exactly right.

<Amanda> I consider your house very Kershaw County, personally.

<Sarah> Yeah, it's got a rain porch.

You're perfectly right, and he's got his Georgian windows, and he's got his flaps siding.

My side of the house, the left side and the back, is Asian.

It's stucco.

It has an arts and craft windows.

It's got an Asian roofline, and the back of it is landscaped Asian, but if you look at the garden, the garden also follows the same evolution.

You come into our driveway, you're looking at more of an English garden with planned beds and things like that, and then you very slowly become aware of the Zen gardens.

The three words that I really wanted to use in designing the garden was secrets , hidden...

I can't remember the third word.

You'll get surprised.

That's the third word, thank you.

As you turn the corner, you very much get to the Asian garden.

<Amanda> And why don't you let me speak with Al some now, if you don't mind, because he is the person who is at the other end of the pointed finger.

<Sarah> That's right.

He's the person that digs the holes, and he loves to dig the holes.

<Al> Hello, Amanda.

<Amanda> Hello, I'm so glad to be back visiting with you.

I so enjoyed strolling in the garden with you.

And Al, I think one thing is that you also have a gardener's love for a new plant sometimes, so you have often incorporated plants that have just reached out to you when you were at the garden centers as well.

<Al> That's true.

We had a neighbor who toured our last house, and she said, "this looks like a specimen garden because I see one of everything and nothing more than that."

<Amanda> As we come up to your house from the street, nature left you with some exquisitely large oak trees that I think just frame and give you some space and definition, don't you?

<Al> I do.

We were very lucky to have a very large live oak, and then we have several wild tulip poplar trees that came with the land, and we've managed to keep those and make sure they're healthy.

<Amanda> And as we get away from the formal planning, foundation planning, your yard is a fascinating yard because it is really almost a wetland down there.

Tell us what you were presented with, and some of the difficulties and some of the joys of that, please.

<Al> Well, when we bought the land, we knew that there were springs scattered around, and a lot of the land... we have two and a half acres.

A lot of the land is a boggy area, so we had to dig some ponds to drain it so that it wasn't really a swamp, so we managed to turn those into little rain gardens, but that allowed the other areas to drain and for us to put in some plants that still like the wet area, but don't want to drown, so that was key in a lot of the plants that we brought in, and we brought in some fatsia here, for instance, that could take it, the weeping willows... <Amanda> You also, though, have managed to add, in addition, of course, to those beautiful beds of iris that I can't wait to see in the springtime, you've managed to incorporate some Hinoki Cypress and some conifers, and so by kind of trial and error, you found out where you can place some things to keep it from just being... so you get great diversity and texture from those very dramatic iris, and then you've got the broadleaf fatsias, and you've got the very finely textured conifers, all of which just blend together, I think, quite remarkably.

<Al> Well, a lot of that is serendipitous.

It wasn't so much well planned as just gratuitous the way it worked.

A lot of it was trial and error.

<Amanda> And even, I think, and we're going to step back to the magnificent solitude and serenity of the Zen gardens that are in the front of that area, but I think that they wouldn't have worked as well if you didn't have that borrowed landscape, because really you've got a swampy area between you and your neighbor, even including some stands of native bamboo.

So you don't have a conflict between what you've tried to do there, and then just a more traditional neighbor's yard across the way.

<Al> We have a lot of the bamboo that's natural, and we're blessed with a lot of ferns, because a lot of the area is shady, and the ferns came with the land, and we were pleased.

We've had people come through to look and they said "did you plant all those?"

And we were just very fortuitous that once we started clearing, the ferns just popped up and they're everywhere, so it was a nice backdrop too.

<Amanda> You do have two, one very large and one smaller, Zen gardens there, and I think maybe some of what you did was so that it wouldn't be a whole lot of upkeep, but let's talk about one.

One does have a dramatic tree that kind of centers it, I believe.

<Al> That's right.

That's a tulip poplar, and it must be 40 feet high.

Part of making it a Zen garden was the roots of the trees around there weren't conducive for a lot of grass, wasn't conducive for mowing so this was a way to cut down on the upkeep, but have some dramatic elements too in the yard, and Sarah sort of designed those and picked out the rocks to be the focal points, and then I enclosed the beds, and then to make the rocks pop out more, we brought in some river rocks to outline them.

Originally, we had thought about turning one of the big boulders into a fountain, but we thought that would detract from some of the serenity.

Plus with the leaves from the trees falling, we didn't think that was such a good idea, so we left them alone, and we're pleased how they turned out, with more simple... <Amanda> And then beyond where you have the rock feature surrounded by the river rock and then the tree with actually a little dead stump of the tree on which you have a Buddha, I believe.

The rest of the garden has a beautiful dark, dark mulch that I think just kind of reminds you of what it's like as you wander out into the swamp plants out front.

I think it's a beautiful connection between that.

<Al> Well, it's interesting with the mulch because Duke Energy came through clearing power lines, so we asked them if we could have the chips that developed from the clearing and they gave them to us.

We must have had fifty truckloads of chips, so we used those to help with the outline of the beds, but when they break down, the decomposition really is pretty rich, so it's sort of held two purposes and helped cut down on the weeding in that area too, so we were pleased, and Duke was pleased too that we wanted it.

It worked out for both of us.

[Amanda laughs] <Amanda> They don't always have pleased outcomes when they're trimming.

When we walk around the side of the house, it gets sunnier, and I think y'all have taken advantage of that, and one thing is although you said Sarah doesn't always cook.

She'll cook something new and you'll say oh, it's so delicious and you don't always get it immediately again, but she loves to cook and I think you got a nice herb garden there.

<Al> She does.

It's right along the house as you turn the corner, and it gets great sun.

I told her I'd like to dig it up and put a rose garden in, and she won't have anything to do with that, so I think we're stuck with the herb garden, but they do well there.

<Amanda> And then you do have across from that, you've taken advantage and you've got some hydrangeas and some things in some kind of partly shaded areas, and it gives you a different texture and a different feel for the garden as you start making that route towards the back where it really becomes very Asian.

Is that correct, Al?

<Al> Well, that is, and part of the reason for the hydrangeas and for the irises, there's a spring over there, and we had it dug get out to again drain it, but it's a pretty boggy area, so we ordered a lot of Siberian and Japanese iris along with hydrangeas and I put them along the side of the house, and this past year it was spectacular with the irises.

Whatever is in that soil there, they loved it.

<Amanda> Isn't that wonderful!

<Al> They were spreading like crazy, so whenever we thin them out, everybody wants some.

<Amanda> Well I'm going to raise my hand.

[both laughing] <Amanda> And then the architecture begins to change as well.

Is it stucco, and then more metal framed windows?

How did y'all make that transition, Al?

<Al> Well, we wanted to have the outside come inside.

When you turn the side of the house, it becomes stucco.

The front of the house is hearty plank, so now you have stucco, and you have windows that go almost floor to ceiling wall to wall, and that lets you view the garden.

The house is L-shaped, and it's just about one room deep the whole way except for the bedrooms, so the whole house has views of the garden, and Sarah will tell you about her Japanese garden in the back, but it's the focal point of that L-shape.

It sits in the middle of the L, and every room has a view.

And at night it's lit, so it's even spectacular at night with the way it glows.

<Amanda> Well, before we bring Sarah back in, I want to talk about that part, with the koi pond and everything, and the things she's chosen to accent.

I do want to talk to you about the edge of the driveway going out the back, because I think I feel like your Kershaw County roots are coming back, because it's a place where you can have some of the plants that you remembered fondly from childhood, including some fruits, I think.

<Al> That's true.

When I was growing up, we had fig trees, we had pomegranate, apple trees, all that sort of thing, and I have a lot of memories of working with the grandfather on those.

So we have fig trees here.

We have pomegranate trees here, and they're just starting to produce fruit this year, so it's pretty exciting.

<Amanda> It is, and I'm glad that she gave you that little spot that can be yours to gain, although I must say I'm going to ask her to come back and talk to me about the magnificent koi pond and the surroundings and the levels that y'all have managed to achieve there.

So if you don't mind, I'm going to thank you.

<Al> Let me go get her.

<Amanda> Thank you for digging all the holes.

<Al> Thank you.

<Sarah> Hello again.

<Amanda> Welcome back, Sarah, and Sarah, I think it might be interesting for people to know a little bit about the background that you had that's made you so eager to always be changing homes, and then Al also had a military background, but I think it made him want to settle down roots.

Tell us a little bit about that, please.

<Sarah> I'm a military junior.

I've had a military ID card all my life and have moved frequently, and I love to move, and I love to design, and I like to re-do houses.

I lived in Japan as a child, and I just love the Japanese-Chinese way of life, so in doing this house, the back of the house particularly, I wanted to recreate the terraced fields, rice fields, so our deck is terraced down, which leads you to the very large koi pond.

<Amanda> And you did have the advantage of this slope naturally on the property there, if I'm not mistaken.

<Sarah> We do.

We both love to sit by the koi pond.

It's just a wonderful place to meditate, have a glass of wine, read the newspaper.

We use it a lot.

<Amanda> I think even the roofline at that part of the house is like terraced so that every opportunity reminds you of when you saw the rice terraces, I believe.

<Sarah> And that's right, and the roofline on the back takes on an Asian look to it.

You know, the long overhangs, the little what do you call it, perculose?

No that's not... pagoda.

<Amanda> And then you do have the wonderful koi pond, and again, that was an opportunity to bring in very heavy stones.

That's kind of a necessity, isn't it?

<Sarah> Huge.

I picked out stones and I said oh, I like that one, and I like that one, and I like this one.

When they delivered them, it was three huge flat bed trucks - huge bed of rocks!

I thought I was just going to have a few big rocks, and they really needed huge pallets of rocks.

It turned out wonderfully.

<Amanda> It did turn out beautifully, and then you learned that as much as you like to attract wildlife and birds, that that koi pond has had some very interesting visitors, I believe.

<Sarah> We've had visitors from a friendly beautiful grey heron who comes frequently, and also to otters.

Each time these birds have come and the otters, they have eaten us out of house and home, all at one time.

So now we have to keep the pond covered with a net.

In the past, we've used an electric fence, and that has allowed our fish to survive for a year this time.

<Amanda> And you have some artfully chosen objects there.

I mean, you have some driftwood, but you've kept it to a minimum, I believe.

<Sarah> That's right.

I really believe that less is better.

I like simpler more than more.

Again, my husband and I are opposites.

He likes to put every ornament he can find in, and I'm the opposite.

I've tried to keep it just to a few wonderful specimens like the black pine.

<Amanda> A Helleri Holly that's got a golden texture, but used sparingly in a little bit of Carex that comes up within the water area.

And I think that you even have a few pots that are painted the same color for repetition and harmony, just to have a little bit more interest in the area.

Is that correct, Sarah?

<Sarah> Yes, absolutely.

<Amanda> Well, Sarah and Al, it was a lovely, lovely afternoon.

You were so kind.

We all wore our mask and socially distanced, and I think we felt as safe as we can, but I felt like I met two people who I'm looking forward to becoming close friends with in the future when we can come over, and I expect you to let Al pick out one of those wonderful meals that he says you just don't make nearly enough, and that you'll let me sit down and enjoy another aspect of your talent, which is cooking.

<Sarah> Thank you for coming.

Thank you for visiting, and come anytime.

We love visitors.

<Amanda> Y'all be safe.

<Sarah> Thank you.

You too.

Stay healthy.

♪ <Amanda> Well, I want to thank all of our guests for being with us tonight, and also again, congratulations to Keith on his well deserved reward.

Remember to think about those beautiful topiaries up there in Greenwood.

Thanks for joining us, and I hope you'll be with us next week.

We'll be right back with more Making It Grow .

Night night.

♪ Making It Grow is brought to you in part by The South Carolina Department of Agriculture, certified South Carolina grown helps consumers identify, find and buy South Carolina products.

McLeod Farms in McBee, South Carolina.

This family farm offers seasonal produce including over 22 varieties of peaches.

Additional funding provided by International Paper and the South Carolina Farm Bureau Federation and Farm Bureau Insurance.