(relaxed guitar music) >>Pitcher plants have photosynthesis but in the bogs that they're found in, they're acidic and they're low in nutrients and so these plants have evolved the ability to catch and digest insects and absorb nutrients for growth and reproduction.

>>You know, the Sago's leaves are a little bit on the prickly side and the interior where the seeds form has little thorns, so it is hard to get the seeds out.

>>Mm hmm.

>>So that's not really a problem, but they are known to be poison.

>>Production funding for "Virginia Home Grown" is made possible by Strange's Florists, Greenhouses, and Garden Centers.

Serving Richmond for over 90 years, with two florist shops, two greenhouses and a garden center located throughout the metro Richmond area.

Strange's, every bloomin' time.

And by.

(birds chirping) (upbeat guitar music) (upbeat guitar music continues) (upbeat guitar music continues) >>Welcome to "Virginia Home Grown."

With the fall weather, our gardens are slowing down while the trees are glowing with color.

Today, we're exploring plants that some may think of as mysterious, even a bit scary.

But by taking a deeper look, we can learn to appreciate these unique and misunderstood species such as this snakeroot.

Before we get started, I want to remind you though to send in your gardening questions on our website, vpm.org/vhg.

We'll be answering those a little later.

In the second half of our show, we will visit a private garden in Richmond to talk about some common and uncommon plants with toxic properties.

But first, I met with Dr.

Phil Sheridan at the Meadowview Biological Research Station in Woodford to talk about carnivorous pitcher plants and learn about their conservation.

So let's get going.

>>Welcome to Meadowview Biological Research Station, home to the National Pitcher Plant Collection.

So we've got the largest collection of pitcher plants in the United States.

>>Interesting, are all of these native, or are some from other parts of the United States?

>>Well, two species are native to Virginia, the yellow pitcher plant, and the purple pitcher plant, and the rest are found in the southeastern United States.

>>So are we in the northern most part, or do they continue on up north?

>>We are at the northern limit for the yellow pitcher plant, which reaches its home in southern Virginia.

Purple pitcher plant goes on up into Canada.

>>Excellent, and I know these are very unique, in that they actually live in areas that are very starved of nutrients.

So how do they get their food and energy?

>>So they get their food through regular channels, like other plants.

So pitcher plants have photosynthesis, but in the bogs that they're found in, they're acidic and they're low in nutrients, and so these plants have evolved the ability to catch and digest insects and absorb nutrients for growth and reproduction.

>>So they've learned, they've adapted to kind of pull the additional nutrients they need from the insects.

>>That's right.

There's actually evolutionary pressure on the vegetable kingdom for plants to be carnivorous in certain conditions, basically where you have a sunny, wet, nutrient-poor habitat, if the other conditions are present in a plant family, then you might see the evolution of carnivory in that plant.

>>That's fascinating.

Well, how are those insects drawn in?

>>Insects are attracted by nectar and odor.

>>Fascinating.

>>And then they come to the pitcher, and some insects fall in, and then they get digested by both bacterial and enzymatic action from the plant.

>>That's fascinating.

I understand they take a special condition, a true bog, and that you've got one here.

>>Yeah, we have a bog right back in the woods with our native pitcher plants.

You wanna go see?

>>Oh, I'd love to see it, yes.

>>Let's go.

>>Okay.

Here we are walking through Eastern forests, but these plants are more moisture-loving than what I'm used to.

>>You're here on our Central Virginia Preserve, the northern most native pitcher plant bog in Virginia, on a globally-rare gravel bog.

This is a ocean strand from three to five million years ago.

And so on this portion of the preserve, we've got a a hillside seepage bog where water, moving down through the sand, hitting a clay layer, and percolating out on the side slopes here.

>>Oh!

>>What is this?

>>Yes, look.

>>What did you just find?

>>I just found a pitcher plant.

That's beautiful.

>>Imagine that.

>>Imagine that.

But you know, in my mind, I would've wanted it lower and into more, I'll say of a boggy situation that I'm thinking of in my head.

>>That's right, a lot of people, Peggy, when we talk about these plants, they think they're down in a swamp somewhere.

And they're really not in swamps.

Swamps are forested wetland.

They're actually, at least in Virginia, located on headwater spring systems.

And so here we have the springy ground, fresh, clean water coming through the sand, very low nutrient, with sphagnum moss.

You're not getting flood waters, which you'd get down in a swamp.

And all that together allows these plants, it's the conditions where these plants would occur.

>>Interesting, and it's right along the roadway that you created for access into this space.

>>That's right.

>>But yet the water is flowing underneath that sphagnum moss.

>>Yeah, flowing horizontally.

>>Yes.

>>Horizontally, in groundwater seepage, and then vertically of course, when it rains.

>>Right.

Because you had shared, these are basically thriving in nutrient-poor sites, and that that water is leaching the nitrogen away.

>>Nitrogen and potassium too, it's a number of nutrients that could be leached out.

And so part of that syndrome then, when you get that set up, and you have a sunny habitat as well, is you have the conditions for the evolution of carnivorous plants.

And this with it's one of the low-growing pitcher plant species, it holds water in the leaves, and largely through the action of insects in the pitchers, the insects are broken down, and nutrients made available to the plants.

It's a whole ecosystem that's being studied.

>>Yes, and each one of these is holding a little puddle of water.

And I can see there's insects, even mosquitoes in there.

So what type of mosquito is in there?

>>It's called Wyeomyia smithii.

It's an endemic mosquito of pitcher plants.

And those insects are really important.

Some of the studies that have been done, if you don't have the associate insect species, the water is loaded with algae.

>>Oh my.

>>And you can see the water here.

>>It's crystal clear, >>Clear, maybe cloudy, depending on how many insects are in a pitcher.

But that complex of insects is actually processing the captures so you don't get those algae blooms.

But if you miss components, you can, sound familiar, you get something polluted, you get an algal outbreak.

>>Yeah, but do all pitcher plants process their prey the same way?

>>Similarly, yeah, they have pitcher, a funnel, that captures and coalesces nutrients via insects.

This one has more water because it's open to the rain.

The trumpet species have caps on the pitcher that really prevent rainwater from getting in.

Those are more dry digestion versus a wet digestion here.

>>Interesting, but to get that rainwater, you need to have open air.

And I noticed that you've done a lot of work around here, Dr.

Phil.

>>That's right, this, when we first got this property, there were a lot of hardwoods, big hardwoods here, also sucking water outta the ground, so we had to remove those.

There were way too many pines, we cut those out.

The bog had very little sphagnum, there was only one small patch.

And we knew we had to open it up, get sunlight in here.

And once we did that, sphagnum covered the whole hillside here in bog.

>>Interesting.

>>Yeah.

>>But I also know you've got some more wetland species moving in.

You've got the Clethra moving in.

>>Well, you know, it's kind of one of the associates you do find on the edges of a bog, Clethra.

We've got alder coming in from the swamp.

But then we have more characteristic bog species like poison sumac that's only found in bogs.

And that's a really good indicator of the high quality here.

>>Yes, but also, you really don't want this alder here, do you?

>>It's part of the system.

I'll come out here with a tri-arc blade and cut it down at my leisure.

>>Right, because that's gonna be fixing nitrogen.

>>It's fixing nitrogen, and it's part of it, we just don't want it to be a dominant.

>>Right, right.

>>So we can correct it.

>>Right, 'cause we wanna preserve >>That's right.

>>Our serracenias here.

>>And that's what volunteers are for.

So Meadowview being a nonprofit, that's the kind of winter activity that volunteers can help with, clearing brush in the bog.

And we have those kind of options open if people want to help out.

>>Yeah, it's like anything else, trying to slow down nature.

You can't really halt it, but to slow it down in its succession toward woodlands, it takes time and effort.

>>And that's a very good point.

So some people would say, "Well, Phil, isn't that gardening?"

And I would say, "No, that's called managing a habitat."

Because many of the processes that were here prior to settlement aren't.

And so we're now responsible for the management of the bog since there's, so fire, even though we burn here, some of the browsers are missing.

So we are really required to come in and do our contribution to keep the habitat open for the rare plants.

And that's really state of the art in conservation biology today.

>>And that's really the purpose of Meadowview Biological.

>>That's right, that's right.

>>Yes, which is doing so much because you've got two locations.

>>That's right.

>>So do you have any plans for more?

>>The only limitation is money.

>>Oh, that's with everything.

(Phil and Peggy laugh) >>So here, our goal was, I think 156 acres, we're now at 85.

And if we meet them, there are more bogs to protect, and then we'd move on to that, if we get to that point.

>>It's so important, the work you're doing.

People just don't understand how we need to preserve areas, to protect all aspects of the ecosystem, even these cute little pitcher plants.

>>This is it, this is the end of the road for pitcher plants in Virginia.

The Meadowview Preserve System is it, I mean, we're the last best example of native pitcher plants in habitat in Virginia.

>>I know this has been a lifetime project for you, and I'm just so pleased with your successes, and I congratulate you.

>>Well, thank you, Peggy.

>>Yeah.

Well, I'll tell you what, let's go look for some more, okay?

>>Okay.

>>All righty.

>>Pitcher plants are bioindicators of an ecosystem, and a healthy stand indicates a high quality wetland habitat.

Now, Dr.

Phil is with me, and Dr.

Phil, you know, really, it's great to have you here, and I thank you for being a return guest here to help us celebrate our 25 years of Virginia Home Grown and our 200th episode.

But, you know, before we get started, diving into this pitcher plant, please remember to send in your gardening questions on our website at vpm.org/vhg or through Facebook.

So, Dr.

Phil, I know what you've brought is, I'll say, limited in scale, but understand some of this is extremely ancient and old.

So, please, share with us.

>>Sure.

Well, Peggy, let's start with, we talked about bioindicators just a minute ago, and so one of the questions I frequently get from people is how to know where a pitcher plant habitat would be, and the first thing I tell 'em is to look for sphagnum moss.

So, there are a number of species of sphagnum moss.

This is one of our red species here.

You actually identify 'em on their characteristics.

They're beautiful.

They're called biological indicators because they tell us the soil is constantly moist, it's acidic, it's the right pH, and it's high water quality.

So, right away, without any complex tools, I can see this plant and it tells me right away I've got the right habitat, potentially, for pitcher plants and its rare associates.

>>Interesting.

How long has sphagnum moss been on, I'll say, the face of the earth here?

>>I don't know.

>>Millions of years?

>>Million of years, for sure.

Yeah, the mosses have been around a long time.

>>Yes, yes, it's just interesting people don't realize that we're saying sphagnum moss, but it takes so long to create a stand and then to have the pitcher plant come in.

>>That's right, and actually, so peat mosses are the basis for Northern peat bogs, for example, or the sphagnum peat that you get at the nursery center is actually decomposed sphagnum moss and other plants from Northern peat bogs.

>>Interesting.

>>So, we've got our red variety here, one species.

We've got the green variety, which is another species.

We've got compacts, types of sphagnum that are quite expensive now that we offer 'cause there's a lot of interest in very tight sphagnum mosses.

So, there's a whole sub-market with sphagnum moss.

>>Interesting, mix the textures and make a terrarium.

>>Yeah, and we have the perfect Christmas colors, red and green, right?

>>Exactly.

>>Getting ready for the holiday season.

>>Yes, we are.

>>And then we get into the fun stuff.

>>Oh, exactly.

Let's talk about these Sarracenias or pitcher plants.

>>Okay, yeah.

So, this is, when you came up to Meadowview, you saw the white-topped pitcher plant, and it's one of our most attractive pitcher plants.

>>It's beautiful, yes.

>>And it catches a lot of insects this time of year.

This is the real crowd-pleaser.

>>Okay.

>>People like to see, I'm gonna do a dissection.

Do I have your permission to do that on TV?

>>You have my permission to do it on TV.

>>So, we already talked about how insects are captured by or are attracted by nectar and scent, and some of the insects fall in.

There's the escape hatch where some of the insects got out, but if we do, you get a sharp knife and go down the leaf like this.

>>And this is a leaf, it's not the flower.

I think you need to keep that in mind.

>>I am going down.

>>And we're going down.

>>Down, down, down.

>>Imagine that bumblebee falling in.

>>And it gets tighter and tighter, and there's downward-pointing hairs here too that capture the insect.

>>Oh, to get it trapped down there, huh?

>>Yeah, and here we go.

Oh, there we go.

>>Oh, my!

>>Look at that.

>>Look at what we have here.

>>So, that's just in a few days, and we have so many pitcher plants, there may not even be enough insects this time of year at Meadowview.

I mean, with thousands of pitcher plants, they're actually capturing quite a few insects.

Sometimes the white tops will totally fill up.

>>Well, say, unlike the purple pitcher plant, this is a dry capture.

>>Pretty much, yeah, that's right.

Do you wanna do another leaf for giggles?

>>Yeah, just for the fun.

Let's see what's in this one.

>>Let's go for pink.

>>Let's do the pink, beautiful as well.

>>Yeah, that's a lovely, lovely leaf.

>>How can people enjoy these at home, or should they just come to the Preserve and enjoy 'em there?

>>Well, they can enjoy 'em at home in a bog garden that they can build.

We recommend just growing 'em as container gardens.

>>Okay.

>>Container bog gardens, and we sell over the internet, so they don't even have to visit.

They can conveniently order off the online shopping cart.

>>Interesting.

>>And we'll ship.

>>Interesting.

>>Through priority mail.

Wow!

For Christmas!

(Peggy laughing) (chuckles) Whoa!

>>Whoa!

You hit the jackpot.

>>I hit the mother lode.

So, here we've got, now think about that.

Think about all the nutrients that you're gonna get, or this plant's gonna get, from these insects.

And here's another interesting part of the ecology here, Peggy, that a lot of people don't think about.

When fire rolls through this ecosystem, because these are fire-maintained ecosystems, leaves that haven't fallen apart, when the fire comes through- >>Oh, there goes a fly.

>>And burns up the leaves, these nutrients are deposited around the pitcher plant as ash and actually fertilize the plant itself and pitcher plant seedling.

So, that's one way that the nutrients quickly are moved from the plant to the actual soil column.

>>Interesting.

We forget the important role fire plays.

>>Fire's very important.

>>Yes.

>>And then, let's not forget the hatpins.

>>I love these.

>>They're another bog plant, but if you were to use these for flower decorations, you could even put some hatpins in there, and if you have a whole bunch of 'em, they're fun to knock around like that.

>>They certainly are.

They add a little motion to just about anything, even to the breeze, you know?

But it's interesting, these plants, we don't think of them as, you know, I wanna say, things that we can relate to, and they're actually rhizomes, you know, just like our irises are, the way they grow with underground stems.

>>Underground stems.

That's right, that's great.

>>But the habitat is so different that they can't, of course, survive in our gardens at all 'cause of the soil.

It could be too nutrient-rich.

>>In a conventional garden.

>>Yeah.

>>That's correct.

Now you could build a bog garden.

I mean, it's possible to build a bog garden to grow the plants more than I'm gonna get into here.

I really think just growing 'em as container gardens is much simpler and a lot less work.

>>Sounds like a good plan, and also to understand the number of insects that they capture, and that just wasn't one or two.

That was a lot of insects in there.

>>That's right.

>>Yes, and for them to be able to process this, for them to get their proteins and other nutrients for their life processes to continue on, it's fascinating, Dr.

Phil.

And I really do appreciate you sharing this all with us 'cause it's something that we've all wondered about.

It's a little mysterious, and now you've settled a lot of questions.

>>You bet, Peggy.

>>Yes, thank you, Phil.

And now we're going to get ready to answer your questions, but first, Serome Hamlin has tips to share while caring for another insect-eating plant, the Venus flytrap.

(lively music) >>There's a weird world of plants out there that may scare some people, but did you know that the United States, outside of our pitcher plants, the Venus flytrap is actually native to small pockets of North Carolina and South Carolina?

Venus flytrap is now on the endangered list because their ecosystems have been wiped out.

But you can find different cultivars in nurseries now, so it's worth taking a look.

Once you get one in, go ahead and repot it.

Here's a neat little trick.

This is the little tape that you use for drywall, and I use this to cover up the holes in the bottom of the pot so that the soil does not leak out the bottom.

The soil mix for this is one part to one part of peat and perlite.

They like a moist soil, but it still has to be free draining.

Now, I did have peat on hand, but coco coir could be used and it is a more sustainable resource.

So going to sift this perlite here, and I've already got the peat measured, so this is a half and half mix.

(perlite rattling) You can see, this is very dusty, but I will sift this behind me.

(perlite rattling) And if this bothers you, you can wear a mask.

Now, I've already got some that's already pre-mixed, so this is what you're looking for.

It's a nice fluffy mix that's going to hold a lot of water, but still it's free draining.

We'll add this to the pot here, and what I'm going to do is put it in, tamp it down a little.

I don't want the soil towards the top to be too tight.

And then I will continue filling this up.

Make the center hole here.

All right, let's get this guy out of the pot, and move this out of the way.

I'm trying not to trigger any of the traps, but as you can see, what they're normally packed in is just Sphagnum moss.

And as I'm doing this, I'm trying to be careful not to pull too many roots out.

And if you're into Bonsai, you will have different types of tweezers around.

I just want to clean up and remove some of the dead traps that's in here just to neaten the plant up.

So now we're starting to see where the roots are.

Their root system like to go straight down.

So as you're putting your plant into its new home, start off with a deeper hole just so you can get the roots down, and then we can tuck 'em in.

And it looks like I didn't trigger any of the open traps that was there, so that's good.

These plants actually are hardy to our zone.

Just because I just parted this up, I probably will let it over winter in the house under grow lights.

These plants do like to stay in water, so you can use a tray like I have here, and only use rainwater or distilled water.

So go ahead and try to grow the Venus flytrap.

It is a neat plant and you'll be helping to preserve a species.

>>And now it's time for our favorite part of the show, when we get to hear from you.

Make sure to send in your gardening questions through our website, vpm.org/vhg, or on Facebook.

Well, Randy Battle has joined us to be part of the conversation.

And thank you, Randy.

Welcome.

>>Thank you so much.

Celebrating 25 years.

>>Exciting, and this is the 200th show.

>>Yes.

>>It's so cool.

(Randy and Peggy chuckle) So, you know, we've got some cool questions.

Let's get to them, okay?

>>Okay, let's get started.

The first question we have is from Karen from Richmond.

She wants to know, "Would we be able to grow pitcher plants or flytraps in large terrariums?

We have grown them in containers outside before."

What are your thoughts?

>>Well, Karen, yes, you can, but I don't recommend it to be honest with you.

They're really best grown, best grown, as outdoor plants.

>>Okay.

>>Okay.

>>Is it 'cause of the light that they need?

>>Yeah, the main problem is lack of light.

It's very hard to replicate full sun conditions in a terrarium inside.

And so, particularly with the trumpet species, you're gonna get very leggy leaves, poor performance, and you can't, with a trumpet species and a flytrap, those are two height differences.

So it's impossible to get the, almost impossible to get the correct light.

There's been a lot of advances with LED lights now.

The hobby has grown.

>>Yes.

>>It's modified.

So never say never.

But it's just easier to grow 'em outside.

>>Yeah, sounds like it.

>>And if you wanted to grow something inside, grow a tropical pitcher plant.

That would be a better choice.

Not a native pitcher plant.

>>Not a native.

>>And is there a particular soil condition that you should consider?

>>Yeah, there's, yeah, Dr.

Phil's recommendation would be we mix Canadian sphagnum peat and white silica sand 50/50, pre-moistened.

That's my recommendation.

You get other recommendations to mix in perlite.

You can do it if you want to, but I like the sand.

It adds weight to the soil.

It helps hold the plants upright.

It allows enough drainage, but with the peat, has good moisture retention.

Works great for us.

>>Yeah.

>>Yeah.

>>Could you use- >>But we want the light.

>>Yeah, Randy's question first.

>>We want the light though.

We want plenty of light.

>>Give us light.

Yes, please.

>>Okay.

(Peggy and Randy laugh) >>Lord, give me light.

Let there be light!

>>We want the light for the pitcher plant.

Okay, great.

>>As much light as you can give them because they do have a threshold.

I mean, that's the problem with terrarium culture.

There generally isn't enough light and you don't get a great performance in the colors that you would get outside.

So just make your life easy and grow 'em outside.

That's what I would do.

>>Okay, sounds good.

>>What were you gonna say, Peggy?

>>I was gonna ask of the coir, you know, coconut coir, which is more sustainable than peat, you know, could we use that?

Because it's similar in sphagnum moss and the peat.

>>That's a good question, Peggy.

I have not used it.

I've read about other people using it.

I've heard, this is just, you know, anecdotally 'cause I haven't done it, but they've had to rinse it a lot to get any salt out of it.

It's being used, so it's a possibility.

So that's fine.

>>Okay.

Something worth exploring.

>>Yes, that's right.

>>Good job.

>>All right, let's move on to our next question.

We have Steve from Richmond.

"Could you feed pitcher plants insect-based fish food like Bug Bites if there are no bugs?"

>>Steve, that's an excellent question and the answer is yes.

The general recommendation with fertilizers is to use 'em at 1/3 recommended rate if, but insects aren't really what they need.

They need light more than insects.

It doesn't take many insects for the plant to get whatever nutrients it needs.

So that's kinda low on the totem pole of what's needed.

But yes, you could do it and use it at 1/3 diluted rate, recommended rate.

>>Okay, good to know.

>>That's interesting.

>>They like it that low on nutrient level.

Good to know.

>>Right.

Okay, so now we have Mary.

"How can I grow pitcher plants at home?

Will pitcher plants grow in regular soil?"

>>So we have two questions here.

So how can you grow 'em at home?

I recommend growing 'em as container gardens outside, maybe on the patio.

There's a number of links on how to do this.

You need your peat/sand mix in the pot, full sun, with a saucer of water underneath to keep constant moisture.

Then the second part of the question is?

Do not grow them in regular soil.

The problem with regular potting soil, your nutrient levels are gonna be too high.

And that's why with the peat/sand combination, you have low nutrients in the soil.

Otherwise you hit toxic levels.

>>What type of containers do you recommend that they grow 'em in, large or?

>>Anywhere from a one-gallon pot on up.

>>Oh.

>>Yeah.

>>Okay, cool.

>>I wouldn't go smaller personally than a one-gallon pot because the problem when you, and you see a lot of plants for sale in these little, I mean, pint pots or whatever, the problem with that is they can dry out very quickly and you got a dead plant.

So the larger your soil mass, the greater resistance to desiccation.

You get a little buffer, and in a busy life, you'll need it.

>>Yeah, that's a good point.

>>Okay, we want drainage.

>>Well, it'll hold moisture.

That's the feature of having a large volume of soil.

So one-gallon container and up is what I would recommend.

>>Okay.

>>Yeah.

>>Okay.

>>Interesting.

>>Very interesting.

What's our next one?

>>All right.

Let's move on.

We're gonna go to, "What are some of the other rare plants Meadowview is protecting on its preserves?"

>>That's a very good question.

So I had one on display just a few minutes ago.

That was the bogbutton, Eriocaulon quinquangulare.

That's one of the rare plants in pitcher plant bogs.

We have several species of orchid.

The rose pogonia orchid, spreading pogonia, the white fringed orchid.

Several species of sundew.

We've got the pink sundew, the water sundew, the state rare dwarf sundew.

Toothache grass, one of our extremely rare grasses.

It's only known now in one site in Virginia.

It's called toothache grass.

We've got that at Joseph Pines.

It'll actually numb your jaw.

And that's one of the rare- >>Did you say toothache grass?

>>Toothache.

And I've actually eaten it when I'm down South and next thing you know, Dr.

Phil's got drool coming out of his mouth.

So it actually works.

Toothache grass.

It reaches northern limit here in Virginia.

Longleaf pine, for example.

Longleaf pine's a rare- >>Yes.

>>Tree.

>>We did a show on them years ago, yes.

>>Yeah, we did.

And we're raising that.

Trying to think what else.

We've got many more, tiny bogbuttons, Lachnocaulon anceps.

>>Yeah.

Well, Dr.

Phil, do you give tours at Meadowview?

Could people contact you to get tours so they can actually experience all of this?

>>We do give tours and so send me an email and we'll go from there.

Yeah, mm-hm.

>>That would be fun.

Well, Randy, we've got one minute, time for one more question, and then we've gotta move on.

>>Okay.

Our last question is about the camellia.

>>Oh, what do we have?

>>All right.

(Peggy and Phil laugh) >>Sorry it's not a pitcher plant.

>>No, that's okay.

>>"We planted a fall blooming camellia three years ago in partial shade."

>>Yes.

>>"It has hardly grown and seems to be really struggling.

What can we do to help this plant?"

>>Well, I'm gonna answer that one 'cause it's not a pitcher plant, okay?

The first thing I'd do would be to check the soil pH.

We wanna make sure it's acidic, and we also wanna make sure that the soil has a good amount of compost or organic matter into it as well.

And have they mulched it?

Are there any competing tree roots that are pulling that water away?

'Cause the tree will win during the summertime when it's low moisture 'cause typically it's, typically it's not as wet as it's been lately, at least at my house.

So we wanna make sure all those soil conditions are right.

They have it in partial shade.

It sounds absolutely perfect for that.

But it might be more shady than they think.

So keep an eye out on that shade situation.

So those are my questions.

Go to the soil and then look up, so.

>>Go to the soil and look up.

>>Yep.

Well, that's all the time we have now, but we look forward to answering more of your questions later in the show.

So keep them coming.

And thank you, Dr.

Phil, for enlightening us on pitcher plants.

>>Thank you.

>>And the conservation work of the nonprofit Meadowview Biological Research Station.

And next, Serome talked, sorry, toured Jeff Minnich's private garden in Richmond and discussed many plants that can be toxic to our pets.

Some common plants might surprise you, so let's take a look.

>>I'm a landscape designer and horticulturist.

When it was time to retire... >>Did we ever retire?

>>Right, I still haven't completely retired, but when it was time to open the next chapter, I guess, we decided to move to Richmond and picked here in Forest Hill, and we absolutely love it.

But the wonderful thing is, aside from the great house, it's a flat, sunny garden.

I can have vegetables, I also have some wonderful trees, and I can have a wonderful shade garden.

And I'm a plant collector, and I'm also a zone pusher, which, of course, you know means that you try to grow things that aren't supposed to be hardy in this area.

And I've had a lot of surprises.

I think there are things here that I never would've dreamed would've thrived here, but they are thriving.

>>Yes, and then as I look around, we're gonna be talking about plants that could be poisonous or detrimental to our four-legged canine friends.

And most people think about tropical plants, but we don't really think about the common plants that we use in our everyday gardens that we love using and them being harmful.

>>Hostas, for instance, have some poisonous aspects to them, and arum lilies, which have a beautiful foliage in the winter, and then berries in the spring.

I would think that the fruit produced on plants would be probably the most interesting thing to animals to play with, maybe intriguing to them or-- >>It could look like a toy.

>>Yes.

But when we've had dogs here, it's mostly they just are wandering around, sniffing to get a feel for the place.

>>So you said you were a zone pusher, and with the climate change happening now, and that it's making it more and more easier to push the zones, you can say, for a lot of these plants that we couldn't grow years ago.

But just in our lifespan, we're noticing that they're becoming more and more hardy here.

For instance, the sago palm is starting to be able to survive some of our winters.

>>You know, the sago's leaves are a little bit on the prickly side, and the interior where the seeds form has little thorns.

So it is hard to get the seeds out.

Here we really don't have the problem with the seeds because we don't have a long enough season.

It's just not a long enough season to really get the seeds.

>>Yeah.

>>And so that's not really a problem, but they are known to be poison.

>>Yes, and you'll wonder why a dog will go after a particular plant or a berry, and it's no real reason I guess I should say.

They could think of it as a play toy or there's a certain scent that attracts them to 'em even though they're not supposed to eat it.

And it differs from dog to dog.

So you can't just say one species is going to do something over another or one dog over another.

But just like you, I personally don't garden thinking about what they may or may not go after.

>>Yes, and we do have a six and a half foot fence, solid fence around our backyard.

So that keeps most animals out.

I would say the raccoons and the squirrels and other wild animals do get in, but our domestic friends can't get in, unless they're invited in.

Now, the jade plant here, we do take in in the winter.

I will say that inside, particularly with cats, I would be more concerned about having some of these tropical things that come out for the summer.

>>For sure.

>>Yeah.

>>And I would definitely be a lot more aware of what I have inside the house for the winter.

>>Do you mind showing us around your garden, and we can see what else we can find that may be poisonous or detrimental to our four-legged friends?

>>Sure thing.

Let's go.

(water sploshing) >>Wow, what a nice combination you have here, Jeff, with the coleus and the Begonia.

>>Well, thank you, and this really was serendipitous because I had hoped that putting this color coleus against this wonderful old brick wall would look good.

But I wasn't sure it would get quite enough light to really bring the color out.

And it did.

It was one of those surprise-- >>Yes.

>>You know, combos.

And as you said earlier, the coleuses and begonias-- >>And begonias, both are poisonous.

>>Yes.

Around the corner here, we do have a lantana, a hardy lantana.

And what was the name of that again?

It was it... >>It was Miss Huff.

>>Miss Huff, right.

>>Miss Huff.

>>And it does come back every year.

>>And then the beautiful juniper.

>>Yes, and thank goodness we have this here.

It keeps the hot summer sun off.

>>Right, exactly.

I really love this variegated Kousa dogwood and the Spanish moss.

>>Oh yeah, yeah, the Spanish moss.

We get that when we're down south.

But, you know, even in Virginia Beach, in Seashore State Park, it grows.

>>It grows.

>>I think that might be the northern limit of it.

>>Oh, and I see we have a holly here, which is another plant that is commonly used in landscapes that could be detrimental to dogs.

>>Yes.

>>I love this wall of osmanthus bringing us into another room here.

>>Oh, I'm glad you said room.

That was the effect that I was hoping for.

>>I love your veggie beds, and I see you got a row of peonies here.

Peonies again is on our list.

And as far as veggies, we've gotta really watch out for certain things like tomatoes and onions for keeping our dogs from eating those.

And now look at this beautiful dahlia against this red wall.

>>Yes.

>>It's beautiful.

>>Full of pollinators, isn't it?

>>Yes.

I see it's really buzzing with life.

>>Yes, it is.

>>And again, it's on our list of poisonous plants.

>>I have one more area I wanna show you.

>>Oh, I'm excited to see.

>>Come on along.

>>Wow, what a tropical-looking area you got back here.

This is incredible.

>>It is really pretty and very dramatic.

And this is one of our favorite corners of the garden.

>>Castor beans, again, it is a poisonous plant, but what a dramatic effect it gives back here.

>>Yes.

And we do have it contained within our high fence.

We never plant it outside the fence where it could injure cats or dogs or other domestic animals.

The one positive thing besides its dramatic appearance is that the root system is quite extensive and it does really loosen up the soil.

>>Yeah.

So we've got compacted soils.

This is a good plant to break that soil up.

>>Yes, absolutely.

>>Jeff, I do thank you for having us here, walking around your garden, and exploring some poisonous plants.

You don't have to garden for your dogs, but keep those plants in mind just in case something goes wrong.

And then you can pinpoint that it could be one of the plants in your garden.

>>Well, thank you so much for coming and I hope that you'll come back often to visit.

>>I certainly will.

>>While avoiding these plants is an option, so is awareness of what you're growing.

Keeping everybody comfortable when pets are outdoors is so important.

And if an issue arises, you can share your vet a list of the plants you're growing.

And now, we are joined by Shaheen Alikhan, who is fascinated by plants you can't be careless with, ones we wanna avoid touching when working in the garden.

But before we begin, remember to send in your questions through our website, vpm.org/vhg, or through Facebook.

So, Shaheen, this is a topic we rarely talk about, but it's one we need to raise awareness of.

>>Yes.

So, I would like to add that all of these plants here are dangerous, some of them more so than others.

And as a reminder to everyone, please don't endanger yourself or anyone else around you, pets or people.

>>Mm-hmm.

>>And I'd like to start with some very common basic spring bulbs >>Yes.

>>That a lot of people grow.

Many of these are plants that we grow either in our gardens or that are around us, just in the wild and people aren't aware.

But we have crocuses and snowdrops, tulips, and daffodils that most of us are accustomed to.

And most people are aware that they do have some toxins, but not how toxic they are, >>Yes.

>>particularly things like the snowdrops here.

>>Yes, yes.

>>And so, moving from some of those, we're gonna be getting into some other toxic plants.

Some of my favorites are in the nightshade family.

>>Mm-hmm.

>>So, we're gonna start with the Brugmansia here, angel's trumpet, which of course, is not in bloom at the moment, >>Right.

>>But has very, very dramatic flowers.

And one of the most dangerous parts of it is actually the scent, because you don't typically think of that >>Mm-hmm.

>>as being something that can endanger you.

>>Yes.

>>People think just ingesting it is the danger.

>>Right.

Particularly for children coming up and smelling this beautiful hanging >>Exactly.

>>trumpet type flower.

>>Exactly.

They smell very sweet.

They're incredibly beautiful.

They're very tempting for people to come up >>Mm-hmm.

>>and smell.

And so, I would just say don't.

>>Yes.

(Shaheen chuckles) >>Just let it waft towards you.

>>Yes.

>>And from- >>That nightshade >>That >>to other nightshades.

>>nightshade to several others here, >>Mm-hmm.

>>these are some of the common ones that we get in Virginia.

We have Buffalo bur, Buffalo bur right here.

We have horsenettle right here.

>>Mm-hmm.

>>And my favorite, bittersweet nightshade right here.

>>Which we have to excuse, it is October.

>>Exactly.

But we still have one berry left on one of the plants.

>>Mm-hmm.

>>And all of these have, most of them have a strong history, either of witchcraft or medicinal use or ancient Greek mythological attributes.

>>Right.

And we have to understand too, these plants develop these attributes to protect themselves.

>>Mm-hmm.

>>It wasn't just, oh gee, I'm going to make this compound.

>>Right, right.

>>But it's really, it's a protection for them to survive in the ecosystem.

>>Mm-hmm.

Anything that's, I think, that's biologically expensive for them, >>Yeah.

>>there has to be a reason for it, right?

>>Yes.

Mm-hmm.

>>And so, we're gonna move on to aconite right here, our monkshood- >>Which is one of the reasons for the gloves.

>>Which is one of the reasons for the gloves.

>>Yes.

>>Several of them are transdermal to some degree.

This is one of the ones that's more severely transdermal.

>>Mm-hmm.

>>So, we just wanna be sure, >>Yes.

>>just in case we brush against it or just picking it up.

This was when I preserved with some glycerin because I wasn't sure if it would still be >>Yeah.

>>okay right now It turns out it was.

>>Mm-hmm.

>>But this one was used in the ancient world as an arrow poison, hence the Wolfsbane, and the monkshood >>Mm-hmm.

>>because of the shape of the flower.

>>Right.

But this is a plant to grow, but toward the back of the border.

>>I'll put it right there again.

>>Yeah.

>>Yes.

And it's- >>Absolutely toward the back of the border.

>>It's a beautiful one.

It's tall and you don't wanna put it somewhere that you can easily brush against it >>Exactly.

>>or along a walkway.

>>Mm-hmm.

>>And because it's tall, it's easier to do that.

>>Exactly.

>>So, another one that's very common is oleander.

>>And yep, this is not hardy in our zone.

>>No, it is not.

Even though it's listed as hardy, it apparently can die all the way back, as you have had.

>>Mm-hmm.

>>And I've been afraid I've brought it in every winter.

So, this is one that is more common in warmer zones.

You'll see >>Mm-hmm.

>>really kind of extensive trees of it.

>>Yes.

>>And it's beautiful.

It comes in a lot of colors.

It is incredibly toxic.

>>Yes.

>>I wouldn't suggest burning and smelling any of these, but this is particularly toxic >>Yes.

>>when it's burned.

The smoke from it when inhaled is really not good for you.

>>Right.

>>And so, we are going to move on to- >>But a more common plant that we don't even think about and this is a seedling of it.

>>A very, very common one.

>>Yeah.

>>This was a volunteer from my favorite black hellebore.

>>Yeah.

>>So, also sometimes called Lenten rose or Christmas rose.

>>Mm-hmm.

>>And these are a very, very popular, very fun, often even at elementary schools.

>>Yes.

>>Like they're grown extensively as landscape plants.

This is in the Ranunculus family, so it's related to buttercups.

>>Mm-hmm.

>>And this was also one of the ones that had some associations with witchcraft, with the flying ointment.

>>Mm-hmm.

Yes.

>>And it blooms in the winter.

So, it's also a very fun winter garden plant, >>Right.

>>which is how I started >>Right.

>>with these.

>>But we don't wanna eat it.

>>No, absolutely not.

>>Nor do we wanna eat these.

>>No, we don't wanna eat these either.

Although pokeweed or ink weed, it's a very, very common plant in Virginia.

And there are parts of it that are conditionally edible.

So, the young leaves, if they're boiled in several changes of water, >>Oh my gracious.

Yes.

>>but I would not recommend doing that.

>>Would never recommend that.

Yes.

>>And so, it has also been referred to as sort of like poor men's food, >>Mm-hmm.

>>the poor man's staple, food.

>>But please don't.

>>But please don't.

(Peggy laughing) Again, disclaimer.

>>Yeah.

>>And you would have to think, people would have to be in pretty dire straits in order to try that.

>>Yeah.

>>And we don't have time to squish it.

It's also used as an ink.

>>Well, we've got one minute left.

So, I wanted to go through a few of these.

>>Okay.

So, we'll definitely get to the snakeroot right here.

>>Yes.

>>And so, this one is often can be mistaken or the other way around, it's a lookalike with the Eupatorium with the bonesets.

>>Right.

>>But this one is, it can cause milk sickness.

And so, because some of the effects take quite some time, >>Mm-hmm.

>>animals, especially when there's not a lot of other forage, they can browse on this and they can pass on the toxins in their milk either to their young or to humans.

And so, this was apparently allegedly the plant that was responsible for the death of Abe Lincoln's mother.

>>Oh, I'm so sorry.

>>So, that was a very common sort of settler issue, was milk sickness.

And it was because >>Yeah.

>>of this particular plant.

But it's very valuable for pollinators.

>>Right, plus it blooms so late in dry shade.

>>Yeah, yeah.

>>And that's a particular one.

>>Yeah.

>>We got seconds left.

So, who do you wanna talk >>Okay.

>>about last?

>>So, we'll talk about some of the ones that are dangerous to touch.

>>Right.

>>So, we've got our black locust and we've got our Virginia creeper, and then some spurge.

>>Yes.

>>And the spurge, that sap can actually make you go blind.

>>Yes.

Please don't touch your hands.

>>So, please don't touch that.

The Virginia creeper, some people are fine >>Some people, mm-hmm.

>>and some people react almost the way they would to poison ivy.

>>Right.

>>And the black locust, it's not just gently brushing against it, it's usually the inner bark or some of the other parts of it.

>>The seeds and the leaves, yes.

>>Can be very damaging.

And that can also cause neurological damage.

>>Yes.

>>But the flowers are edible.

>>Yes.

>>So, you have to be very careful.

Some of them have, or they can be used medicinally.

>>Yeah.

You have properties that you have to be aware of.

So, do your homework.

>>Absolutely.

Absolutely.

>>Yes.

>>Do your homework, please.

Yes, they're fun, but don't think, "Oh, I'm just gonna go grow some of these."

Because you also have to be very careful even just weeding around them in the garden, planting them, just moving around them.

>>Yes.

Well, Shaheen, thank you for opening our eyes up to see what is in our gardens with a new perspective.

>>Well, thank you.

>>Yes.

And next, we're going to answer more of your questions.

But first, Jen Naylor explains why tomatoes were thought to be toxic to us for hundreds of years.

(gentle rhythmic music) >>It's the very end of my tomato growing season in my garden.

A long time ago, tomatoes were believed to be toxic, dangerous, and poisonous.

In Europe, the rich folks actually what they did is they ate tomatoes off of their pewter plates, and the pewter plates had a high content of lead.

So tomatoes being acidic, highly acidic, it leached the lead from the pewter plates.

And these folks who ate those tomatoes that are served on the pewter plates, they got really sick and died.

It went on for 200 years.

Can you believe that?

Oh my gosh, I can't live without tomatoes, especially fresh picked tomatoes, not for one day.

Now those folks who were poor, they ate their tomatoes out of their wooden plates or wooden bowls, and they didn't get sick.

How ironic, right?

Tomatoes are also part of the nightshade family.

Some of the plants in nightshade family are toxic.

Now, so people thought maybe the tomatoes are also toxic as well, so they're scared of eating the tomatoes.

It took a really long time for people to understand that only the leaves and the stems are harmful and not the fruit itself.

There's so much that you can do with the fruit of course.

There are so many different varieties or various ways of cooking tomatoes.

Now, in the beginning of tomato growing season, what I do is I take these metal stakes and I stake them into the ground.

And I go into the woods and I gather all these long, sturdy sticks.

And what I do is I zip tie them to the metal stake, and that gives a really good stability for tomatoes to hang onto.

Now, as the tomato plants grow, because they grow pretty fast during the growing season, I get the tomato string.

You can get it from any garden store or even online.

And what I do, I tie them from one end to the other side, and then tomatoes, as they grow, I support them.

So I tie them onto the string, and that way they can grow upright without just falling down.

It gives them a really good stability.

I'm gonna be harvesting some of these, my last of my tomatoes.

And of course my fall garden greens I just planted back in September, they're ready to be harvested.

And I'm going to be making kimchi pancake wrap.

Delicious.

I just hope that you love tomatoes as much as I do because it's safe to eat, it's not dangerous, and it's nutritious, and it's fantastic eats.

>>Learning about these unique and misunderstood species removes the scary or unknown aspect of these plants and enables us to make informed decisions when choosing plants for our gardens.

And now we're going to take more of your questions, so go ahead and send those in at vpm.org/vhg.

So let's see what we have here.

You know, Shaheen, I wanna start out with asking, was there anything else you wanted to share?

'Cause we kind of really got into talking about that.

>>We did, and there were a few that I wasn't able to bring in, and some of it is because it's late in the season, and so they're just not doing very much right now, as you saw during your visit.

Two of my favorites, and two of the most dangerous ones, are deadly nightshade, so atropine, and water hemlock.

And the water hemlock grows everywhere here, and it has a lot of look-alikes, like Queen Anne's lace, which is extremely toxic.

It's actually listed as, by some sources, as the most toxic plant in the Northern Hemisphere.

And an adjacent plant, poison hemlock, was the one that was responsible for the death of Socrates.

>>So we have to be aware.

And understand, Queen Anne's lace is not native to the United States.

It came over from Europe in the 1600s.

But the water hemlock is native to the United States.

So, you know, again, understanding and taking a close look at our plants and learning good ID, not just reacting.

>>Right, right, absolutely.

>>Some books are great sources, not always the cellphone.

I call it the oracle of knowledge.

Sometimes it's not spot-on, yeah, so.

>>Plant IDs can be notoriously unreliable with the apps.

>>Yes, absolutely.

Well, another question is, how do we get rid of poison ivy that grows under bird feeders?

Is there any way to control that?

>>I'm not a proponent of poisoning your garden at all, which is ironic because I have so many toxic plants.

But, you know, with chemical poisons.

Something that was just suggested to me that I've not yet had the opportunity to try is to drive a copper nail into the plant.

And so that would be an interesting experiment.

I will pull them up, I will pull them.

And that's a little bit of a never-ending battle, because they do spread pretty aggressively via the roots.

But I will wear gloves and I will turn a trash bag inside-out over my arm, and then grab them.

If they're very sturdy, I will also have paper so that the gloves and the bag don't tear, and do that, uproot it, and then I can unroll the bag over the plant to protect myself.

>>Take it off the sleeve, that's my system, too.

This way, it's all contained.

Randy, how do you deal with poison ivy?

>>I actually am not allergic to poison ivy.

>>Oh, you are so fortunate.

>>I mean, I've been around poison ivy my whole life, growing up in the country, and I just never have the reaction that my brothers have.

Now, my brothers, they will break out really bad, but I don't.

>>Well, consider yourself lucky, my friend.

Next time I have poison ivy, I'm calling you.

(laughs) >>And that's something you can develop, because I wasn't allergic until I was in my late teens.

>>Okay.

>>So that is something you can develop later.

>>Yeah, and heading into my mid-50s, (group laughs) I hope I don't grab it.

>>Right, right.

>>You might pass that, maybe.

>>Yeah.

>>Well, we have another question.

For plants that are harmful to pets, should they be dug up?

>>I would say it depends on your particular situation, on everybody's situation.

I'm inclined to say no, just because it is, you know, there are so many of them that are potentially harmful to pets, that you'd be severely limiting your garden.

I would definitely say you could block off areas, especially if you have animals that are, you know, sort of roaming free.

With your pets, it would be easier to block off an area from a dog.

There are various reasons not to let, you know, cats fully outside.

But you could also do sort of the finer gauge of rabbit fencing, you know, around it to keep cats or, you know, other pets away from it.

And if you have pets that are very inclined to get into your garden plants, that might be something, you know, to consider.

But a physical barrier would be the first thing that I would recommend.

>>Definitely, and I'll tell everybody, I was at your garden, and you have a lot of physical barriers up.

>>Yes, yes I do.

>>It's a very controlled environment, so thank you.

Randy, do you have any experience with trying to keep pets away from plants?

>>I try to do the barriers.

I do have a fenced-in property now.

So Mr.

Princeton, which is my Bichon Frise pet, he doesn't really get into the garden.

He may want to pop a squirt here and there, but he doesn't really try to eat on anything.

He likes his regular pet food inside the house.

>>Yes, smart, (laughs) very smart.

Well, we have time for one more, and coming down to seconds, so.

Spanish moss was mentioned.

And growing it is, you know, it's a tropical plant.

It's an epiphyte, it just... Epiphyte's not the right... Yeah, that's the right word.

It grows basically from the moisture in the air.

So I have grown it in my garden, but then come winter, and it dies, of course.

But then, because of the number of insects that are harbored in there, I take it and I put it in the freezer, and I freeze it quickly to kill any of the insects in there, and then I use it in what I would like to use it in my arrangements and stuff.

So I don't keep it in there long, 'cause I don't it to go to mush, but, yes.

But the other thing is, you can put it in a Ziploc bag and totally cut off the air and basically suffocate the insects.

That takes a good month or two.

But that's one way to use it, so anyway.

>>Interesting.

>>Well, we're out of time.

And Shaheen, thank you so much for being with us today.

>>Thank you, thank you.

>>Oh, you're welcome.

>>Yes, and Randy, thank you, as always.

>>Thank you.

>>Yes.

And thanks to all of our guests today.

And thank you for watching!

It has been a wonderful anniversary season.

We appreciate your support over the last 25 years.

But just because our season is over doesn't mean you have to stop gardening with us.

"Virginia Home Grown Clippings" starts on November 15th, so join us Saturday mornings at 8 through the winter months.

You can also stay connected by signing up for our monthly newsletter at vpm.org/vhg and by visiting us on Facebook.

We have an exciting opportunity for community garden organizers and those wishing to start community gardens coming up in February.

Registration is now open for the Community Garden Gathering.

And learn more about this educational workshop on our website.

I look forward to being with you again soon, and until then, remember, gardening is for everyone.

And we are all growing and learning together.

Happy gardening.

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