(light, upbeat music) - Welcome to Digging Deeper with Backyard Farmer.

I'm your host Kim Todd.

On Digging Deeper, we have in-depth discussions with our extension and industry experts about those important landscape topics.

Tonight, we are talking about safer solutions to some of the issues in your landscape with Sara Browning.

And of course, Sarah is a very familiar face because she sits in that hort chair, she sits in the path chair, she sits in the turf chair, she could sit in the insect chair.

So Sarah, thanks for coming along.

- My pleasure.

- This was actually your suggestion, I think probably based on the number of questions that you get in Lancaster county, as well as what we get on Backyard Farmer.

- Right, you know, we're always getting questions from viewers and you know, obviously they want to know about insect and disease control.

And we mention products on air, but we don't really go in-depth and talk about them very much.

And so we thought we might just take a few minutes tonight and focus on some of the products that would not be considered traditional pesticides.

You know, they wouldn't, they're not a chemical way to kill an insect or a disease.

They have a different route of control.

But we would consider these in a class of what we would call soft insecticides or possibly some of these would truly be considered organic.

They could actually be a part of a certified organic production system.

But they all have their own different ways of killing pests.

And all of the things that we have here in front of us are readily available, so you can find them at your local garden center.

- And you don't even really have to dig very far.

- That's right.

- You can walk up to the shelf and there it is.

- There they are, and if you don't know what they are, you know, obviously you wouldn't pick them up because you know, you have no idea how to use it.

So that's kind of what we wanted to talk about tonight.

Is what some of these products are for, how they work and how you can use them.

- All right, so do you want to concentrate on what kills what, or do you want to concentrate on the different formulations and types that you've got?

- Let's talk about the different formulations and what they actually do.

And so the first one that we'll talk about here is what we would call a horticultural oil.

This happens to be All Seasons brand horticultural oil.

There are many, many different manufacturers of horticulture oils.

There's Sun Spray, there's Volck, I believe Safer also makes a horticultural oil.

So there's lots of different brands that you can purchase.

But these are actually just oils.

They're very highly refined oils and they kill the insects by blocking up their breathing holes and disrupting some of their, like their, the membranes on the outer part of their bodies.

The horticultural oils work well against soft-bodied insects.

So we use them for things like aphids and spider mites or mealy bugs or things like that.

We also sometimes use them in a dormant application for scale control.

They can smother overwintering scale eggs or scale insects.

And so we use them in that way too.

So how they're applied is, you know, fairly easy, it's a liquid formulation.

So you just mix it up in a sprayer and you spray it on the plant.

Now it does have to come in contact with the insect.

This is not a systemic product at all.

So it has to get on the insect to provide any kind of control.

So the insect has to be there.

I mean, again, you can't use this product preventatively, the insect has to be there for it to provide control.

Now there are some caveats to all of these products that we're going to talk about tonight, just because we consider them safe products, They're not harmful to you or pets or wildlife, they can damage plants.

So you have to make sure that you apply them correctly.

Make sure that you thoroughly read the label and understand how to use them.

For example, if you were to spray a horticultural oil on a plant that is drought stressed, or if the air temperature is too high, typically we say above 85 degrees air temperature, you could cause leaf burn.

So you have to make sure that you're applying it correctly and making sure the plants are well hydrated before you spray and then making sure that the air temperature is not going to be too hot on the day that you spray it.

Another little caveat with the oils is that they do not mix well with sulfur, which we're going to talk about in a few minutes.

Mixing oil and sulfur can cause some serious leaf burn.

So I believe even on the labels, you're going to find that you do not apply one product within 30 days of applying the other product.

So you have to be careful about how you make the applications - And I I'm assuming people are probably familiar with neem, it's one of the primary oils.

We used to use a designation of summer oil and horticultural oil.

- Well, it used to be dormant oil.

And then there was summer oils.

And dormant oil, way back, you know, like in the 50's, 60's, (laughs) - Way back.

- Way back.

Oils were not as highly refined.

And so there were more byproducts that were still in the oil.

And if you sprayed them on living plant leaves, they could cause burning.

So they were only used during the dormant season and that's why they were called dormant oils.

We've gone beyond that now.

The oils that we have now are very highly refined.

And so the dormant oil term has kind of fallen by the wayside.

So we talk now about horticultural oils or all season oil sprays, because they can be used in both the winter and in the summer.

- Excellent, that's easier for, - Yeah, it's easier for a consumer to understand.

So, you know, again, the soft-bodied insects, the mites, the aphid, scales, those are the kinds of things that we would use an oil against.

Okay?

- Excellent.

All right, so what do you want to go to next?

- I guess, one final follow-up thought on this, on the oil though, is we sometimes get questions from home gardeners saying, okay well it's just oil.

Can't I just take some corn oil off my kitchen shelf or some olive oil, can't I just spray that?

Well, first of all, it hasn't been researched.

So it's probably not a good idea.

Plus it's probably a way more expensive route of expensive type of oil, especially like an olive oil compared to what you would pay for something like summer oil.

And again, it's not researched.

So, you know, the ability of those products to burn your plants is pretty high.

So I would say no.

Short answer is no.

- That's the lightning answer.

- Yeah, exactly, that's the lightning answer.

- There you go.

All right, so what else do you want to concentrate on?

- So we also wanted to talk about soaps.

And so, the insecticidal soaps are another product that we talk about quite frequently.

Now this particular product is, it has a soap component to it and it also has Spinosad.

So it has a soap plus a plant-derived insecticide.

Now there are other products that you'll find on the market that have just the soap component, like the Safer soap is a very common one.

I think Bonide has an insecticidal soap as well.

These again, work very well against those soft-bodied insects.

So the aphids, the mealybugs, thrips, mites, things like that.

And they work in a lot the same way that the oil will work.

They will block up the breathing holes, they'll disrupt the outer membranes of the insect.

And so they're more of a physical type of way of killing the insect.

So with both the insecticidal soaps and the oils, one really good thing is that it's very unlikely that insects will ever build up a level of resistance to these products because they're killing the insect in a mechanical or a physical way, rather than in a chemical way.

But again, follow the safety directions when you're applying a soap in the same way that you would as an oil, because if they're applied improperly on a drought stressed plant, or when air temperatures are too high, they can burn the plants.

But quite often, if someone comes to me with a spider mite question, Kim, you know, one of the first things I will recommend they try is an insecticidal soap.

It works much better, actually at mite control than most of the insecticides we have on the market.

Which most of the traditional insecticides are not good at killing spider mites.

So what you end up doing is you kill off all the beneficials that would have preyed on the mites and you don't kill the mites.

And now you've got just a wide open field and then the mites can just reproduce extensively, and then you just have a mite explosion.

But insecticidal soap is one good way of killing them with one of these softer insecticides.

- Excellent, all right.

So then you have two that are, they're close.

- Definitely, we have, so what we have now here is, this is, I guess you could call it more of a, maybe a biological type of control.

And this happens to be a product called BT, which stands for bacillus thuringiensis.

It's a bacteria that has been found to be very effective at killing the larva of moths and butterflies.

So, you know, it works very well against things like corn ear worms or cabbage loopers or tomato horn worms or army worms, any of those larva of moths and butterflies.

And it also works very well against bagworm.

I should mention, I should throw that because bagworms are an insect we get questions about all the time, every year.

So we've got here in two different formulations.

This is a liquid formulation, and then we have a dust formulation.

So, you know, maybe if you've got a vegetable garden and you've got some cabbages that you're having trouble with cabbage loopers, you know, you might want to use the dust form and just dust the plants.

And then as the insects are ingesting the chemical, it will kill them, okay?

Or in the case of like, again, our bagworms, using the liquid product is probably going to be a much more effective way to apply it to a tree, to actually spray the product on the tree, than a dust would be.

Now, these products don't kill the insects quite as quickly as say a traditional insecticide might do.

But what happens if, say again, you're spraying bagworms on a tree, the insects after the application will stop feeding, and it may take them a day or two to actually fully die, but they'll stop feeding and it will give you a good level of control.

- Excellent.

We want to make sure our audience is responding to everything that we're doing, of course, on Facebook.

Tell us what you love, tell us what you don't like, if we're headed in the wrong direction or the right direction.

And of course we really like your feedback.

And I'm assuming that this is going to get pretty good feedback from our audience, Sarah.

- I hope so.

- Yup, so, you know, there's fun with the dust.

- Yeah (laughs) - You're doing this as opposed to just doing the, you know, oh yeah, maybe I got it.

And I would assume that one of the issues too, that people need to be careful with on these is you don't want to be indiscriminate.

Because if it kills the larva of butterflies and moths, it's not going to discriminate between, you want the monarchs, but you don't want the corn ear worms.

- So of course, you need to be careful with your applications and where you're making the applications and what insects might be impacted.

And, you know, we always say it on the show, It's a good idea to identify the pest before you kill it.

And an excellent example of that is monarch caterpillars.

If people are not familiar with what the caterpillars look like, they could easily kill them, thinking there's some kind of pest.

Or the swallowtail butterflies, which we commonly get on dill or parsley in a vegetable garden.

And if you're not familiar with what they are, you could easily kill them not understanding that it's actually a really beautiful butterfly.

So identify the pest first, before you make any kind of application.

Whether you're using some of these softer insecticides or whether you're using a traditional insecticide.

- Exactly.

- And I guess the one thing I should have mentioned, Kim, and I think it's on the bottles here.

You can buy the bacillus thuringiensis under a couple of different brand names.

One is DiPel, that's very commonly used brand name you'll find, and the other is Thuricide.

And they both contain the same active ingredient, which is that, that inactivated bacteria.

- Excellent, all right.

We have two more products to go through, Sarah in the time we have left and they're in bags.

- Definitely, yeah.

So here we've got some sulfur.

And sulfur is one of the oldest pesticide products that, you know, has been around for ages and ages.

Sulfur has been used as a fungicide and it can also be used as an insecticide in both ways.

So and here we have it in a granular form in the bag.

But it can be applied in a granular form or it can be put into a liquid and then sprayed on the plants.

So, you know, again, it's not a product that's going to provide you with a lot of residual.

It's going to be a contact insecticide or a contact fungicide to protect the leaves of a plant from becoming infected with a fungus or to kill insects that are actively feeding on a plant.

But again, it's a safe product, you know, it's only sulfur.

It's very safe for humans and wildlife and pets and all of those things.

So it's a good product to use, just again, follow the label directions and, you know, don't spray it on plants that are drought stressed or when temperatures are too high, because it has a high potential for burning foliage if it's used incorrectly.

- Well and it's also an acidifier but not on a permanent basis.

- Right, you know, and given the fact that our soils are so alkaline, unless you're applying just a ton of it on a regular basis, the overall acidifying effects on the soil are probably going to be minimal.

But it can burn plants if you don't use it correctly.

So be careful.

- All right, and then you have one that people who have swimming pools are probably thinking, what are you doing with that?

(both laugh) - Yeah, so this one is diatomaceous earth, and we talk about it on the show, but I'm not sure people ever really know what exactly it is.

I mean, it's a weird name, right, diatomaceous earth.

So here's a little bit of background.

So diatoms are actually a type of algae that live in the oceans.

And when they die, they have these hard little crusty shells and they're harvested and then they're ground up very finely and actually you can see here in the bowl, we poured some out for you so you could see it.

It almost looks just like flour.

It's extremely finely ground.

But if you were an insect, like an aphid or a spider mite, there are still sharp edges on even the ground up pieces of the diatoms.

So what you do is you apply this to your plants or it's used often for slug control.

You can apply it at the base of plants like hostas and other plants like that, that you have a lot of trouble with slugs on, and as they crawl across it, the sharp edges will scratch up their outer surface.

And it will cause them to dehydrate and die, basically.

So it's, again, it's a physical way of killing the insects rather than a true chemical.

So it's again, very, very safe for humans and animals and wildlife.

And it's actually quite safe for beneficial insects.

It's not a product that would harm pollinators very much.

So, you know, diatomaceous earth.

If you're having trouble with slugs in your garden, it'll be a good product to try.

- You're not wasting beer.

- No, exactly.

I mean, you could use beer traps, but then, you know, there is a waste of beer factor in there.

- Exactly, well, and it's so interesting, Sarah, because anybody who's not familiar with diatoms or has forgotten if they learned it in high school, they're beautiful little things.

I mean, they're, they look crystalline.

And so to be able to, it's interesting that they still grind them though, to make them that fine.

And then it would still be like teensy-weensy, little shards of glass.

So I do know that one of our viewers on Backyard Farmer actually sent a question about whether you can use diatomaceous earth on Japanese beetles?

Would the assumption be on the grubs, as opposed to the beetles themselves?

- Well, I guess, I don't think that this product would work very well on Japanese beetles in either stage because the grubs in the soil, you really have no way to get the diatomaceous earth down to them.

You know, it's not a water-soluble product.

It doesn't really move in the soil.

It's going to stay where you apply it.

And the adult Japanese beetles have such a hard outer shell.

I doubt that the diatomaceous earth would really have much effect on them at all.

So I don't think that this would be a product that would give you very good control at all for something like that.

- Soapy water.

- Yeah, soapy water or hand pick, like Jodie talks.

- And I do know you wanted to talk about one more thing tonight and that would be syringing.

So talk about that in the time we have left.

- Yeah, so syringing is actually a technique that you can use for insect control.

And what it is is you just take your hose with a good, strong jet of water.

And let's say, for example, you have a tomato that has mites on it.

You would spray the plant down really well, trying to make a good effort to get onto the undersides of the leaves.

And what's going to happen is you're going to wash a lot of the aphids or a lot of the mites off of the leaves, wash them down to the soil surface, where they'll be easy prey for a lot of different predatory insects that will feed on them.

And so the chances that they'll find their way back up onto the plant are pretty low.

The other thing is you're going to make the environment of that plant cooler and wetter, which is not what spider mites like.

Spider mites like a very hot, dry environment.

And so you can slow down their reproductive cycle.

You know, when air temperatures are above 85, spider mites can have a new generation of insects about every five days, they reproduce extremely fast.

So to get ahead of them and to break that cycle, you need to slow them down.

And so syringing is one thing that you can do.

So if you have a plant that has a, and again, syringing is often used against spider mites, it can be used against aphids.

Those are the two big ones that we would use it most often, you would probably want to go out and syringe the plant, I would say ideally twice a day, maybe morning and night.

And do that for at least a week, to see if you can break that reproductive cycle and give some of the other beneficial insects that are still on the plants in your landscapes, a chance to catch up and to get this mite problem down under control a little bit more.

So, yeah, syringing is a great physical way, without any chemicals at all, to try to control things like spider mites and aphids.

- Besides which, since you do it when it's really, really hot, it feels good.

- Yeah, it feels good to you, yeah exactly.

- All right, well, that is all the time we have for Digging Deeper with Backyard Farmer.

And we, of course, we want to say thank you to Sarah for coming in and talking with us today.

We will be back next time with another in-depth discussion.

Do be sure to watch Backyard Farmer live every Thursday at 7:00 PM central on Nebraska Public Media.

Thanks for Digging Deeper with Backyard Farmer.

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