Dinner and a book is supported by the Rex and Alice A. Martin Foundation of Elkhart, celebrating the spirit of Alice Martin and her love of good food and good friends.

Doris Kearns Goodwin is a 24 year old graduate student who worked directly for LBJ.

Richard Goodwin spent his early life as a political advisor and speechwriter.

Doris and Richard were sometimes at odds.

Over the years, Richard had saved 300 boxes worth of clippings, speeches, photos, diaries.

Let's open some of these boxes to examine what's inside.

For Richard, the end of the 60s cast a dark curtain over history.

It's all part of the number one New York Times bestseller, An Unfinished Love Story by Doris Kearns Goodwin.

And joining me today is a lover of American political history.

Kathy Freese welcome.

Thanks for having me again.

Well, I know that you know, you know what's going on before you read the book.

I mean, you're really that's our era.

Yes it is.

Yeah, we lived this period and it's almost like, what, did you like going through it again?

Yes.

You did a lot in the book.

Yeah I did.

I did too.

I learned a lot, I must say, but I found it a very painful time.

Yes.

And, so I, I kind of was ready to move on.

But let's first talk about what we're preparing today to go with this meal for people living in Concord, Massachusetts.

Yes.

And they both were, professors at Harvard?

Yes.

That's where they met.

Yes.

And so I'm going to do Boston Brown Bread, which you always ate on Friday nights if you lived in Boston.

And hot dogs.

And what are you going to do?

Well, let's see, I'm doing some Boston baked beans, and then I'm going to make a coleslaw.

And I found out there are so many ways to make coleslaw.

You can't do anything wrong.

Really.

But anyway, I loved this book.

Did you?

Yes.

Yes.

And, I didn't know that much about Richard Goodwin.

And didn't know that he had worked for John Kennedy, LBJ, Bobby Kennedy, Eugene McCarthy, Al Gore.

He knew words, did he?

He was a wonderful writer, as is his wife.

Yes.

What a couple.

I mean, I wonder if they spoke in the morning of breakfast.

These long, wonderful sentences.

Sounds like they did.

Yes.

And she was a historian, so she did the, history, whereas he was a good writer from the get go.

He could write anything and fast.

And, you know, about the Great Society and and, he that was his idea.

I mean, his words, his words.

And he's the one that wrote.

You ask not what your country can do for you.

You know, I've heard so many people say they know the who actually wrote, and it's not him.

But even a friend in Elkhart told me she had written those words for him.

And I thought, how interesting.

Yeah.

In any case, I'm going to start the bread so we can get it in the oven And, actually, this is supposed to be, gram flour, but I didn't have it, so I'm using whole wheat organic whole wheat flour.

You cannot go wrong with this whole wheat.

Whole wheat.

And so I'm making a mess, which I always do.

Oh, that's that's what happens when you work with flour.

And I have to resift this.

I mean, you sift it twice.

There are no eggs in this.

Almost no sugar, except there's molasses, which has a lot of sugar.

I mean, that's sugary, but this is so good.

I am just using a some cans of beans.

I haven't soaked them.

I'm not into that.

But I know some people do, and they claim it does make a better dish.

And I believe that that's a fine thing to say and do.

You know, why did he move back and forth?

They were all Democrats that he was writing for.

But like you said, first it was Kennedy and then it was LBJ, and then it was someone else, and then back to Kennedy and then back to then Robert Kennedy.

And he wrote for him, and everybody wanted Richard Goodwin because he was so young.

Yes.

He was.

And, and, he was a character and bright.

He, he was a wordsmith.

I mean, just beautiful.

And both he and, John Kennedy.

Well, and Robert two were from Brookline, Massachusetts, and I have call themselves the Brookline boys, the Brookline boys.

Well, and he, you know, he I don't think he came from a wealthy background.

No, he didn't, in fact.

And his father never got kind of another job.

The in the depression.

Yes.

I am adding to these wonderful cans of baked beans, some mustard and and I've got some brown sugar and I'll put in a little ketchup and sometimes I would, you know, cook some onions or I would cook more bacon, but, you know, baked beans, you can't once you start, you can't stop.

There's so much fine.

I'm going to put in a little bit of this last part.

So I'm putting in a little bit of sugar, salt and soda.

Sift them all.

I think you could do that in your sleep.

You make lots of different kinds of bread.

Yeah.

And let me see.

Did I put the salt?

I'm using the rest of this.

Three quarters of a teaspoon of salt.

I knew this would happen.

I was going to bring this to use of every bit of ketchup in here.

And now it's balking at my efforts.

Anyway, we'll add a little bit.

So good started out, and I can't remember how he even got involved with Kennedy in the first place.

I can't remember either.

All of a sudden, he's working for Kennedy.

Yeah, and it was before Kennedy was president.

I mean, he was working on speeches.

He was a very lucky man that he ended up doing what he did well.

And and did he know he wrote Al Gore's concession speech when, I was in, in Florida in the 2000 election, which surprised me.

He was a man who knew how to he was in love with the American history and the government.

I mean, feeling that.

And at that time, he said that he thought you were really going to make a difference.

And then he and LBJ got crosswise over the Vietnam War.

Well, and he had written some things about that.

And Johnson just didn't want to be the first president to end a war.

He, you know, that he just thought that would be like a coward who's running away.

And, and if today we look at that a little bit differently, of course, she was a white House fellow, so she worked with LBJ, which kind of surprised me.

And it surprised her.

She was at, yeah, she got the fellowship and then she had written an article, and of course, she didn't know Goodwin at the time.

She didn't meet Goodwin until after she was a professor.

And I'm putting the molasses in right now.

I can almost smell them.

Oh, yeah.

I'm not a fan of molasses, but, But the Boston people are, apparently.

Yeah.

So now what else?

I've got a cup of buttermilk and the molasses here, and then I'm going to stir it all together.

You don't have to use a mixer.

You don't have to go.

Looks pretty nice if you ask me.

Now I'm trying to figure out how I'm going to get this in here.

Sometimes I forget that you have to carry it to this, to the oven.

And is there room for me to put my.

Oh, we'll read.

We'll make room pans into.

Oh, yeah, you have to have it.

You.

I have two.

This makes two.

And I was scared to have it because I didn't know how it would.

This will be in about 20 minutes.

You know, actually, I can just leave it on top of the stove and it could cook on top of this.

So.

Oh, I forgot something.

So this makes it easy.

The brown sugar.

Oh and we made a big effort for this brown sugar.

Yeah.

And it will give a nice rich, sweet taste to the beans.

I think it's interesting with this bread there no eggs in it.

You find the most interesting things.

But this is an older.

And you used to make the bread.

You'd cook it in a can.

A tin can.

Yes.

A 1 pound tin can.

And I tried to find a 1 pound tin can.

But now a lot of them have that.

There's some plastic on the bottom I bet you can't.

Oh so you can't put.

No that's not, that's so good.

I'm just putting it in an eight by four.

Why did Richard always seem to be the right guy at the right moment?

Whenever somebody needed a writer, he pops up and he.

Yeah.

And.

Yeah, but he was good.

And they all kind of had somebody to follow around and see who is available.

Of course, he was a good friend of Bill Moyers.

Oh, yes.

There are pictures in the book of him and Bill Moyers.

And then, you know, after the assassination of John Kennedy, he does.

I can't remember which order now, probably well, after LBJ was Robert Kennedy, and he becomes his speechwriter.

Well, but before Kennedy, he works for Eugene McCarthy.

Yes, in New Hampshire.

And McCarthy wins the New Hampshire primary, and it doesn't go much further.

Well, he tells McCarthy, Bobby Kennedy is a friend of mine, and if he starts running for president, I'm going to I'm going to go with you.

And so be prepared for this.

I disappear, right.

And that's exactly what happened.

I would have put more time on those boxes.

It's sort of like they were a treasure chest as as Goodwin said, you you couldn't.

That wouldn't happen.

Now, what would happen?

Wouldn't have those boxes now.

Oh, and they would be in some important place.

And you'd be accused of taking things.

Right?

Yeah.

We see you learn a lot and he, you know, he was just kind of the gofer at the beginning.

And so he had all these things and we're just carrying him around in a play.

Did he say a laundry box or something like that from place to place when they were, when Kennedy was running for the in the primary?

Well, a lot of things have changed.

And right now we're going to put the bread in the oven and we will bake it.

For how long?

An hour.

An hour at 350.

Oh okay.

And so we'll be right back.

But we're going to talk about more of the activities of the Goodwins.

Kathy Freese and I are talking about, Doris Kearns Goodwin latest bestseller, An Unfinished Love Story.

And we're right in the middle of this aren't we?

And, you know, they she and Goodwin didn't meet until she was no longer working for LBJ.

He was out of the government.

And Jonathan.

He was done finished all that.

And, she was a professor at Harvard, and he was at Harvard.

And that's how they met.

And they had met earlier, but it didn't work out.

He had a child.

His wife had committed suicide.

I mean, there's a lot going on in his life.

But they really were a match.

They were a good match.

They had they shared the same values.

They were educated the same way, and they liked people.

I think I would not call them snobbish, but then I now know them.

I realized maybe they are snobs.

And, you know, Doris Kearns Goodwin really had, fond memories of LBJ and Lady Ladybird, whereas Dick Goodwin, because of the Vietnam War, did not have.

Yeah, good memories of LBJ because they were hiding things about what was going on.

He didn't want to write that as a speechwriter.

So he ducks out, doesn't.

Yeah.

He leaves.

Well, he goes and work for George Eugene McCarthy.

Right.

And LBJ never forgave him for that.

But, Doris, as they're going through these boxes of memories, she gets Richard to soften his stance toward LBJ.

Yes.

She had a good experience with him, but she she knew he was a rascal.

He was he was temperamental and he had a temper.

But and in fact, there's a whole chapter in there called the 13 LBJ.

13 John.

I mean, because he could change into something oddly different right in the moment.

This guy, he really could.

And and you know what?

I think we should write a book about ourselves.

The 13 Gails the 13.

Kathys makes more interesting, doesn't it?

I've come out more interesting than I am, and and, Ladybird would say that LBJ would get into his, Valley of the Black Dog.

Yeah.

Black pig, not dog.

But yeah.

So he he was really something.

He was up and down.

Yeah, he was up and down.

And he might have been that way before he got into politics.

But politics has to really push some buttons in people who are, you know, having some troubles and in this sort of thing.

So you think they kind of he I think she softened.

Goodwin's I mean, he could say, of course, it's from the distance of years, looking back 30 some years.

Yeah.

So, but I had no idea that Goodwin had worked for Eugene McCarthy in New Hampshire and written things for him and that he had been he and Bobby Kennedy were good friends.

Yes, he did get along with Bobby, and he was with Kennedy, Bobby Kennedy, when he was, assassinated.

And in the book, she says that Goodwin idolized John Kennedy.

I mean, he put John Kennedy on a pedestal, whereas Bobby was his friend.

Yes, he knew the good and the bad and the ugly.

Yeah.

But it is interesting how this couple lived in Washington that.

Well, they lived in, in Massachusetts.

And they were Easterners.

So she had come from New York.

She was a Brooklyn and a Brooklyn Dodger fan.

Her first book, about the Dodgers and growing up, her memoir is Wait Till Next Time.

Yeah.

Is wonderful.

Well, you know, we have we have a list of her books that we'll put up on the screen, or we probably already did, of and I've read, I think three fourths of them and I, I forgot until just reading this book.

What a smooth writer.

She is.

and she talks that and she talks about how the fact that he could write.

So he had so many ideas where she had to really research things, spend a lot of time looking back at the, you know, she was the historian.

He was the right at the moment.

Yes.

That's exactly way to describe them.

And and, you know, when you look back on books, you might you may have written and you've been harsh on some people, you may change.

And I think about the political writers these days that are being very, either complimentary or very angry with our current government.

How are these writers going to be treated in the future?

It will be interesting to see.

Well, and then she quizzes him.

Oh, yeah.

It's when he's talking about when he was still in, government, in the State Department and under Dean Rusk.

I'm not sure we won't go into that.

And Rusk called, Goodwin a traitor, unpatriotic and disloyal.

And, Goodwin is writing a rebuttal to this because Goodwin is against the Vietnam War.

And Goodwin says the government of the United States is not a private club or college fraternity.

Its policies are not private.

Oaths are company secrets.

Presumably, a man enters public life to serve the nation.

And Goodwin did feel that the off taken by every high officer of the nation, elected or appointed, is to support and defend the Constitution of the United States, not an administration, a political party or a man.

Oh my goodness.

So you see where his philosophy lies, and I wonder, and I carry carries on with his thinking.

So I am fried hotdogs.

I normally would not do this.

I just boil them and water.

But I saw her putting butter in there.

I thought, wow, this, this, I don't really good.

This is the Boston way.

Doing that apparently.

Well, it would be good, but I'm sure they were fat.

Was fat?

Yeah.

Nothing but calories and things too.

Yes.

I just am in your arteries using this, recipe from my friend that lives in Boston.

Is.

That looks good.

In the same place that your children live.

And, I like it.

And then she.

Whatever's left over, she puts in a big, big plastic bag and pulls it out the next day, and.

And then we have more slaw.

Or you can just make a little bit.

Whatever.

Well, this book also made I've read Carol's book on.

Oh, yes.

And his books.

Yes.

What they're for.

But this really talks about it makes it even more personal or talks more about others in the government.

I got a whole different view, of Johnson, Kennedy, both Kennedy and Jackie.

And he was a good friend of this man.

Yes, yes.

Before.

Before he married.

And, he's the one that actually helped get the money to help restore some of the beautiful monuments along, and I l yes, yes.

And that's another interesting book about the French woman who was dead.

Yes, yes, yes.

Excellent.

Yeah.

Oh, I tell you, books take you everywhere.

Yes.

You learn so much and you meet so many interesting people and, So, anyway, this is my sort of Boston salad.

Coleslaw.

It's it's not.

It's real creamy, tiny little pieces.

But I like that, too.

And I like Amish coleslaw with a little bit of the pepper.

And what else do you put in there?

Is that vinegar?

Vinegar.

It's vinegar is no mayonnaise.

No.

Yeah I like the no I like coleslaw.

So it's fun to try these different coleslaw.

And if you like one particular one it becomes yours.

So with the coleslaw and this is something, they have it on the 4th of July with salmon in that area.

And sometimes the beans are added to, so how are those hotdogs going.

Done.

They do.

Do you need a dish?

Are you going to put them around the edge?

We want to chop them.

What would you like to do?

We just put them on a plate and if anybody wants to.

Yeah, I don't know.

I'm going to turn this off now because I don't want to overdo it.

You don't want to burn them?

We'll find a plate.

A plate that's fine.

And, Well, I really like this book.

I think you would get a different view of every.

But I also learned a lot about our policies in South America and Central America at the time.

Why?

We aren't popular down here.

And I don't blame them.

Yes.

And Kennedy tried to change that, as did LBJ a little bit.

But, yeah, the business was conducted business down there and wanted the government to make it perfect for them to go.

Yeah.

So now we're going to take a little break.

I hope you've enjoyed an unfinished love story as much as Kathy and I have.

Good book.

Right.

Good book.

Yeah, it's a lot, right?

Usually do.

Yes.

Oh.

With Doris Kearns.

Goodwin is such a good writer.

Just point out and talk about your food.

Okay.

We have hot dogs that were fried, but.

So they look more like they're grilled.

And a Boston brown bread made with whole wheat.

Usually it's made with gram flour, but it still tastes just as good.

Beautiful.

And for an evening or Friday night, maybe in Boston or the suburbs, we have a slaw It's chunky.

It's not like the slaw that we have here locally.

And then we have the beans with a little bit of, Dijon mustard and some apple cider vinegar.

And I think it would be a fine dinner, and it really wouldn't take long, would it?

No, not at all.

Not at all.

Anything that you didn't get to say that you want to say about this book?

Well, it softened my view of LBJ a little bit.

Just like Doris soften Richard Goodwin's view.

Yes.

Of LBJ and, I really they really were lovers of our country and our Constitution and I think, everybody should read the book.

Yes.

And it's a good review of that period, that time in the 60s, a dark time.

But we came out of it.

And so the food reflects the times.

It's, it's, it reflects, a Friday night or any night in the Boston area or the Concord area.

And, I think I just was impressed with the way they got along and they shared ideas.

They just enjoyed each other's company.

It would have been fun to sit around the dinner table with them, just hear the wit snapping through the air.

I love that, too.

Thank you for suggesting that book, and thank you for coming and doing your usual magic.

And thank you for watching, and we encourage you to watch us again in the future.

So in the meantime, good books, good friends, good books.

They're what it's all for.

It's a good life, isn't it?

I kind of forgot my own slogan here, but you get it.

You know what I'm talking about, don't you?

Anyway, we'll see you next time.

This Wnit, local production has been made possible in part by viewers like you.

Thank you.

Dinner and a book is supported by the Rex and Alice A. Martin Foundation of Elkhart, celebrating the spirit of Alice Martin and her love of good food and good friends.

I.

Join me and my friend Kathy Friess as we discuss the lives of Richard Goodwin and Doris Kearns Goodwin as they reflect on the momentous happenings of more than 50 years ago.

In the book An Unfinished Love Story by Doris Kearns Goodwin on this week's dinner and a book.

as they reflect on the momentous happenings of more than 50 years ago.

Join me and my friend Kathy Friess as we discuss the lives of Richard Goodwin and Doris Kearns Goodwin In the book An Unfinished Love Story by Doris Kearns Goodwin on this week's dinner and a book.