Dinner and a book is supported by the Rex and Alice A. Martin Foundation of Elkhart, celebrating the spirit of Alice Martin and her love of good food and good friends.

Octavia Butler's 1993 novel parable of the sower was selected as the most influential science fiction book of the last 125 years by New York Times readers.

I'm April Lidinsky, filling in for Gail Martin, Professor Darryl Heller, assistant professor of women's and gender studies and director of the IU South Bend Civil Rights Heritage Center, joins me to discuss this ambitious novel, which takes on climate change, environmental justice and envisions an Earth based religion designed to inspire the next generations.

Welcome, Darryl Heller, thanks for saying yes to this invitation for having me be here.

You suggested this novel right away, so why this novel?

Well, Octavia Butler, it's been, you know, just a big inspiration of mine.

And actually, I was introduced to her by my daughter.

Oh, really?

Is into Afro futurism and so on.

But she said, dad, you have to read this.

And so I took the first one Parable of the Sower And I've read everything she's ever written since.

Wow.

Love it.

So that's my ambition now too.

So before we talk about the novel, let's talk about what we are making.

inspired in a way, by the book.

So tell me what you'll be fixing in this part of the show here.

I am going to be making Rosemairie's cornbread.

Rosemarie is actually, my sister.

She's an adopted sister, but she is very much a sister who handed me this southern cornbread recipe that I made several times and just love it.

Oh, gorgeous.

And you're making it in this, beautifully preserved pan.

Always make it in, cast iron skillet.

This is a skillet.

That was my mom's, my mom gave all of her kids, cast iron pots.

Yeah.

So, yeah, it's it's a wonderful thing.

And it comes out so well, but it's gorgeous.

So, And I'll be making two different kinds of tacos here.

the, novel is set in the future, and so we're cooking kind of low on the food chain here.

And I'm going to start by making some vegan taco, filling that's, the foundation of which is finely chopped mushrooms and walnuts.

And then I'll be adding some seasonings.

So I'm going to get started chopping it.

And you can get started on your cornbread flour.

So yes, let's talk just a little bit about you know, kind of the big picture of what this novel is about.

And it's set in the future.

And when Darryl suggested this book and I read it, I realized, you know, it's written in 1993 but set in 2024.

So right now it's like it's actually written in the present, you could say solutely.

Absolutely.

So how would you describe sort of what the, you know, the big, the big scope of the plot and then we can talk more about the, the characters?

Well, you know, it's, it's a genre of science fiction called speculative science fiction, which means that it's, it's not made up.

It's kind of taken where we are at the moment and just kind of projecting, like if we continue in the path that we're going now where we we end up in 30, 40, 50, 100 years from now.

So that, I think is such an important point, because there's so much kind of dystopian fiction out there.

And often I think of like station 11 and some of these other, apocalyptic novels where some unknown something has caused collapse.

instead, Octavia Butler takes seriously, a lot of issues that we'll be talking about here and says, what happens, as you say, if we just stay on this path, you know, increasing separation of the wealthy and the poor, increasing climate collapse, increasing problems with the food chain, increasing problems with crime, with race and racism.

Absolutely.

These kind of divisions is happening in society between between peoples and groups.

so she just spins that all the way out, in a way that it's not terribly encouraging when we don't make some serious changes.

Yes.

Okay.

So there's the there's the caveat there.

I think it's, it's a warning.

And, maybe we could say a map for, for, for a better way of living here.

So, so it's starts in 2024 with sort of we follow in this book three years into the future.

and do you want to say a little bit about the, the context?

So it's outside of, outside of this in Southern California and in this world, her future, our present is, you know, people are divided, and, she and her family in a small community live in a walled off gated community surrounded by the destitute, the desperate, the violent, the poor, the hungry.

And it's all about trying to protect themselves.

All right.

Good.

falling into that kind of morass.

Right.

So kind of roving gangs.

And now we need to talk about who that she is.

Oh, she is the two main characters named Lauren.

Okay.

And by the way, could you pass me the salt?

I could pass you the salt.

You know, sharing ingredients is very parable of the sower, wouldn't you say?

Well, you know, this is in our dystopian world.

We all need to kind of look out and help each other.

All right.

So yeah.

So we're following, the book is actually first person, we're following Lauren, who is 15 years old at the start.

brilliant, sensitive black teenager, raised in a home with, you know, a preacher father and old style and old style Baptist preacher.

Yeah.

who quotes scripture and and believes in that God is the Savior and will eventually, if we all believe in if we kind of live our life right, despite what's going on around them, that all will be well.

But Lauren's not really having it because she is having a pretty nicely.

But thank you.

Yeah.

So it's this the book is are her journals, right.

So we're watching.

it's an interesting way to write it.

We're watching her development.

There's no kind of omniscient narrator.

We're seeing the world through her eyes, and it's pretty.

Pretty, frankly, terrifying.

Yeah, I would say.

so you mentioned let's let's kind of, talk a little bit more about the environment that she's growing up in a world, sort of a world that's unique or how and what do we know about her family?

She's got some siblings who are also trying to survive.

She's got sibling.

And what's what's interesting in this community, there's some multiracial community.

Okay, good.

Yeah.

And you know, the racial tensions that we that we're kind of witnessing ourselves have not gone away.

They're actually been been exacerbated.

but within this community, folks who are working to get along.

so there's tension because the despite the fact that the world is crumbling around them, they're also kind of grappling with, you know, I guess I would say grappling with all of the issues that we currently are in, that they haven't quite figured out how to transform, even for themselves.

Okay.

Yeah, I'm going to do one thing.

I'm going to stick this in the oven because I need to.

Okay, good.

And then I want you to tell me the story of the cornbread here.

so what what are the ingredients that are going in there?

And then I'm.

So it's a really basic, I got this recipe, and I keep it handy because I am really not a cook with all the recipe.

You're doing fine.

but Rosemary gave me this, I asked for.

I was making some beans one day, which is what I'm going to make later.

Later on.

And I always love cornbread with beans because that's what we had at home.

And so it's kind of southern comfort food for me.

Okay.

Love it.

the so it is really simple.

You know, this is cornmeal, a little bit of baking soda, one of the secret ingredients of sugar, you know, like a bread and a little sweet.

Yeah, sure, sure.

milk and eggs, a pinch of salt.

And I listen to you.

Pinch of salt.

Are you are I?

I can actually have that conversation.

I can fake it till you make it.

All right.

That looks great.

And this, walnut meat is coming together with, once you finely chop things.

Well, it's sort of the texture and size of, Sure.

I didn't turn on the wrong one here.

texture and size of kind of ground beef.

And this then has it seasoned with soy sauce and ketchup.

cumin.

smoked paprika, onion powder, garlic powder, a little bit of pepper and salt.

And then I'm going to sauté it until, it releases the moisture and, it'll be a kind of filling that you could use for tacos, but also really for almost anything that might otherwise have ground beef in it.

And super, super delicious.

So.

Sounds wonderful.

I love walnuts.

Yeah, those are one of the things we head down home as well.

Okay.

All right.

Oh that's looking beautiful.

And you put it in the, you heat the pan ahead of time for some of the.

The real key is I'm going to do this in a minute.

Heat the pan and, pour little oil into the batter, and that prevents it from sticking to the pan.

Oh, yeah.

And probably you just get us a nice crowd to do that now.

All right, I'm excited.

And then here's our, You know, it's got sort of taco meat seasoning here.

So, so even early in the novel and we'll be careful not to reveal any big plot twists, but early in the novel, we can see a sort of generational, divide between Lauren and her father.

So, as you said, he's an old style preacher.

The sort of God as the boss in the sky, and she wants something different.

And even as a 12 year old, she starts to formulate, the idea of a new religion.

So maybe we could just introduce that idea a little bit here.

Her religion, she calls, she ultimately calls it Earth Seed.

Actually, I'll read you just one little passage, how she describes it.

Super.

to really kind of grappling with the God of her father, the god of traditional Christian religions, just doesn't seem to make sense to her anymore, given the condition of the world.

And so she's trying to reform late.

Yeah, yeah, a way of understanding agency and understand what is the what are the cosmic forces that are at play.

And so she comes to a belief then what she says, and this is kind of directly from her words as a narrator.

Yeah.

Good is she says God is power, infinite, irresistible, inexhaustible or indifferent.

And yet God is pliable.

Trickster, teacher, chaos.

Clay.

God exists to be shaped.

God is change.

All right.

So that idea will unfold a little bit more.

after we come back, we'll take a little break and you can see some images of Octavia Butler and her work.

We'll be right back.

Welcome back.

We're talking about parable of the sower.

And Daryl is going to take this coin out of the oven, which I think is divine.

So this is Rosemarie's cornbread, baked in this beautiful family, and, crispy looks fantastic.

so let's talk about what we're making now.

And we can talk also a little bit about the why we're eating so low on the food chain.

So what's so I'm going to make some pinto beans seasoned with ham hocks.

But right I modified the recipe a little bit because I like mine a little spicy.

so let's add some cayenne pepper, a little red pepper, among other things, to to spice it up, but in some fresh jalapenos.

Okay.

Yeah.

Like let's do a bit of chopping for and I'm making, another kind of vegan tacos.

Although, of course, you could always add cheese to these.

And this is, has a base of, butternut squash, which I've roasted, cubed and roasted with a little bit of olive oil and chili powder, salt and pepper.

and this will be the basis of a slaw that I'll make here that has that and some, cooked beans.

I've got some red beans in here.

And then I'm going to be, adding some of this beautiful red cabbage and, cilantro and lime to it.

So a lot of colors in it.

It's a lot of color.

So, so, so let's talk a little bit about, about Lauren, our protagonist.

Yeah.

She has this vision of this Earth based religion, but she also has some kind of unique aspects that are, a product of her time.

So can we talk about that a little bit?

Yeah.

You know, it's called hyper empathy.

Yeah.

where she feels what other people feel and not just kind of in her head, but physically.

So she embodies the sensations that other people experience, which which actually makes it really difficult for her or to hurt other people or to witness other people being hurt because she feels her pain.

Yes, literally.

And, you know, in a, in a time of, of culture collapse, especially, you know, sometimes when she needs to defend herself or defend other people, she's got this sort of, complexity going on in her brain, because if she, shoot somebody for example, she feels that pain.

And how did she how did that come about?

It's an environmental wellness environmental thing.

I mean, in the dystopia of the world as she was growing up in, her mother took, illicit drugs.

And one of the side effects of this drug was that it was passed on to infants that developed this syndrome.

And while she's not the only one in the entire place, entire world, she's the only person that she knows of in her community.

Right.

And it's also something that she keeps very hidden, because she also realizes that as a kid, if other kids know she has it, they could hurt her.

Yeah.

So she's very careful, and her family is very careful to keep this hidden from the rest of her community.

Yeah, a little bit of a burden.

And the flip side is also true that she can feel other people's joy.

Yes.

yes.

So I think this is what makes sex really interesting.

Yes.

Moving on.

So let's just say.

So, this in this way, Octavia Butler also kind of plays out the use of increasing use of drugs and addiction when people are miserable.

Right?

People find ways to, to self-medicate.

And, remember, there's this other drug that comes up that becomes really highly problematic.

They call it pyro, but it's, you know, speaking of sex, it's a drug that, fire, the seeing fire, setting fires, setting fire, and then watching it burn, watching things burn creates this sensation that's akin to sex and orgasm.

Right.

And it can be a sustain.

So those who are addicted to this drug go around setting fires and destroying them, a little bit of what people have left.

and it also makes people really violent, right?

I mean, it's a super scary world, and yet she's this tender, person interested in mutual aid.

So I'm just going to say a little bit about what I'm adding here.

Some cilantro and some lime and just a little bit of, maybe I tucked away my olive oil.

I'll dribble some in there and you get just this beautiful, colorful slaw that also has the beans in it.

And so it's also the basis of a, of a taco.

and a lot of the book is, is a kind of journey.

Right.

So there's, we're introduced to this compound where she lives, and then the compound is breached, the street finds herself alone, and it's actually the same people that are abusing this drug that ultimately breached because a lot of thieving and people need to feed their habit.

so, yeah, she escapes.

so a lot of members of our community are killed in the process.

And so she, she starts out alone to find a couple of other folks and then begins a journey.

Yeah.

So they start to head, remember this.

It starts in just outside of LA, and they start to go north.

This is the hope.

They need water.

They can drink a lot of this band that keeps getting larger and larger of people interested in helping one another out, they need food.

So a lot of the novel is about adding some lime juice here.

it's about finding fresh water, the value of fresh water.

Those of us who live around the Great Lakes might think carefully about what this means for environmental future.

and, you know, a lot of the food in the book we wouldn't make here.

So, for example, acorn bread, you can make it at home.

and but, you know, interestingly, we don't use it.

But indigenous people.

Yeah.

You mean wonderful.

Perfect.

Absolutely.

So, and, walnut filled, tacos is part of that.

So a little bit of lime juice here, a little bit of salt and pepper.

And so the, the, the hunt, one wonder their staples in terms of meat is rabbit.

Yes.

And what they don't use is used is kind of we talked about before.

They don't use it per se to have a big chunks of meat, but they use it to highlight, some of the other.

So what I'm going to do and what we do in the South, I'm going to season my beans with a smoked ham hock.

Oh.

All right.

So that it's not a big beast.

But this is just less the eat the meat, but it's more to add flavor to the beans okay.

All right.

So the meat the meat is really good.

And sometimes when I do it I add an extra ham hock.

So there actually is meat in it.

But all right.

And then you want to do cooking it in a crock I'm going to crock pot it.

So the way I like to do it is because it's easy.

I can do it in cut everything in the morning, put it on and go to work.

Come back and come back in the evening.

I have a meal, car parts going on when you're teaching school.

It is.

It isn't.

I'm cooking.

I'm cooking while I'm teaching.

All right.

Great.

So pretty easy.

do you smoke you beans overnight?

I don't you don't need to.

You can really.

It's optional.

I have three cups of dried beans right here that are just ready to go.

Okay.

And then how much water do you cook them in?

so I, you know, I had to look this up.

Yeah.

It's generally the idea is three cups of water to every cup of beans.

Okay.

I am going to add just a little bit less.

I have three cups of beans and then put seven cups of water in it okay.

All right.

And a lot of that is also kind of by feel.

You know if you're cooked for a while you know.

Yeah.

So again I've modified this recipe a bit.

Yeah.

I'd have to try that fresh.

How to use those.

Oh, I love them.

Yeah.

You can get them right here locally.

in town of Western Avenue.

All right.

Wonderful.

Smells great.

So, maybe we could introduce some of the other characters, and I'm warming up some corn tortillas.

I'll make a couple tacos with corn tortillas and a couple with some flour tortillas.

So you do you so.

Yeah.

So, you know, what I will say is that what's really lovely about this book, in one sense, is that as she goes along, that she's thinking about this religion, that she's this new faith that she's trying to grapple with.

she picks up people along the way that people she learns to trust.

it's an environment where you have to be really careful about who you bring into your circle.

But she slowly collects people and develops a sense of community, through her process.

Okay, nice.

Yeah.

And really influenced by mutual aid.

So this idea of I'm going to pour the beans in.

All right.

I start putting stuff together here.

Right.

And I'm stuffing this with, some of the wonderful bean and wonderful looks great slaw.

And I'm going to put a little bit of guacamole on one side.

Ham hock.

so they start to also there are, more kids who get involved.

they start to take care of one another.

And, and a lot of, I think interesting ways.

And along the way, like any sort of journey, they're facing, a lot of hardships.

So things seem to be going well, and then they're attacked.

They seem to be doing well, and they run out of water.

But what is there destination for their hitting?

they they have heard and there's only rumors, but they've heard that in Oregon and even more further north in Washington state, in Canada, that there are sanctuaries.

Okay.

So the other part of the threat, though, is that all of those borders are sealed.

So the question is how quickly how can they actually get to those areas?

but they're going to go on the journey to because they have nothing to lose at this point.

They do have nothing to lose.

And Lauren, begins to develop a relationship with, an older doctor.

so the difference in their age might be a challenge for some readers.

They do talk about it, but, he's got some land, and they start to, Oh, let's see, how are these doing?

Oh, getting pretty crispy.

All right.

these.

Look at that.

Oh.

So all right, so I'm going to start putting in my seven cups of water.

All right I have to measure this.

And then I'm going to add some spices okay.

That's great.

and I'm gonna make some more, let's see a couple couple more tacos here with some of the, the flour ones.

So they're, hoping to find a location, that they call acorn seeking out.

this is a new community that's based on mutual aid, that's influenced by a, the idea of Earth seed, which is that really, people are all we've got.

You can't just sort of pray to a god in the sky.

It's about kindness.

It's about change.

thank goodness I got a beautiful avocado here.

And, while we finish building some of these, there we go.

Building some of these tacos here.

And your beans cook.

We're going to take a little break and you can see a little more, a few more of the books, but Octavia Butler has written an author you want to know more about.

We'll be right back.

All right.

Darrell and I have been cooking up a storm.

Food's inspired by Octavia Butler's Parable of the sower.

What is on this gorgeous plate?

What we have here is a southern meal.

We have pinto beans with ham hocks and cornbread on the side with over rice.

Okay.

And this just smells like cake.

but good stuff.

Eat it for the main dish.

I call the peasant food.

Okay.

Yeah.

Which, you know, survival food as well.

and I've made a couple of different kinds of tacos here.

Some with, walnut and mushroom meat and some with, butternut squash and, red cabbage slaw.

And I've also spiced it a little bit with yard chives.

So just as they do in the book, kind of picking things up.

And of course you can dress it up, however you like with extra cilantro.

And I was use a little bit of Rosa sauce this, great.

Saraca.

so, so this book, written in 1993, starts in 2024.

Why read it now, do you think?

Well, this book is like a roadmap.

if we don't make any changes in how we're going today, this book kind of lays out what a possible future for us is.

It doesn't look good.

That is true.

But there is hope.

with earth seeds.

So, how does she, leaven that a little bit?

What do you hope?

Well, there's two parts to this series, and the second one is called parable of the talents.

And I won't give away the ending, but it's more hopeful than this one.

okay, so.

And the thread, please read it.

The thread of the, Earth based religion that she comes up with really builds on ideas that that, you know, we've heard in terms of mutual aid and other things.

So, what a delight to share the kitchen with you.

My pleasure.

Thanks to Gail Martin for allowing me to guest host.

I think we should have a toast to Octavia Butler.

Her vision of the future.

We hope you read this book, and we'll see you next time on Dinner & a Book.

This WNIT Local production has been made possible in part by viewers like you.

Thank you.

Dinner and a book is supported by the Rex and Alice A. Martin Foundation of Elkhart, celebrating the spirit of Alice Martin and her love of good food and good friends.