Dinner and A Dinner Dinner and A Book is supported by the Rex and Alice A. Martin Foundation of Elkhart, celebrating the spirit of Alice Martin and her love of good food and good friends.

Most of us could define the concept of hospitality, but restaurateur Will Guidara hopes we’ll reach for something that he calls unreasonable hospitality and, yes, we’ll define it, Guidara writes about developing and running award winning restaurants.

But his insights can apply to any organization or community like ours.

I'm delighted to be sharing the kitchen today with Willow Weatherall, the executive Director of Downtown South Bend, to discuss Dara's book Unreasonable Hospitality.

The Remarkable Power of Giving People More than They expect.

Willow, I'm so glad you suggested this book.

Thanks for having me on the show.

I loved reading it.

And how did you hear about it?

It was new to me while working in downtown shop and many of the restaurant tours were reading it recommending it.

I felt like it was the Christmas book of 2024.

I gave it to people.

I received it, so now I shall do the same.

So, so in the spirit of this book, let's talk about the menu that we're making today.

What are you preparing?

Yes, I am going to be making Armenian lentil soup with dried apricots and a citrus and olive oil.

Cake.

Okay.

Beautiful.

And I'm making some harmonizing dishes here.

Citrus, and olive salad with fennel, which I love playing with.

And, some mocktail, some nonalcoholic drinks that are inclusive will allow you to, to use fun barware and are absolutely delicious.

So tell me what you're getting started with.

And there's a little story about the soup, isn't there, that works with this show.

Yes, I'm going to get started.

Cooking the onions with a little bit of olive oil.

And then I'm going to add the dried apricots to some lentils that, have been simmering away.

But I love this soup.

It's one that I've made dozens and dozens of times for, you know, friends, if they if they're sick or there is a new baby any time that they, there is an opportunity to deliver a meal and, you know, show a little care.

Yeah.

And everybody's got a lentil soup recipe, but this is, got some warm spices and really wonderful things.

Something that makes it unique.

Special.

And I'm just making it starting with a little, simple lemon vinaigrette.

And I'm going to start, cutting and layering the ingredients for the salad.

So let's define this.

I sort of love this provocative title.

There's the sizzle is the onions.

Love it.

The sound of business getting.

That's right.

So let's define that idea of unreasonable hospitality.

It's kind of counterintuitive.

We think of unreasonableness as bad, but he wants to reframe that.

Yeah, I think of it as, designing and delivering experiences that make people feel deeply connected, like they belong and, that really create these lasting, positive memories.

And, I think a lot about, you know, just how we elevate the experience in downtown South Bend and, you know, make people feel connected to the heart of our city.

Yeah.

I can see why it spoke to you that way.

So he's, he's interested in all of his restaurants, and now he's on the lecture circuit.

He's got some really wonderful YouTube, talks on this idea of, surprise and delight being part of this as well.

So people go to a restaurant, they expect a nice meal.

He's interested in all the little extras that will give people, as you said, stories to carry with them, things that make them feel connected.

I'm just going to let this sort of, stand off to the side if in a little hot pepper in here and, some salt.

So I'm going to move this over here.

So, Guidara is a consultant on the show The Bear.

Yes.

Produced in Chicago.

Yes.

That's so nice.

Our glamorous, glamorous neighbor to the West.

And he, he tells a story that is kind of the apocryphal story of what, a unreasonable hospitality means, what it means to go above and beyond.

And part of it is paying attention, listening.

Listening to what people, that will speak to them particularly.

So not just everybody gets a mint at the table, but what what are people talking about?

So he tells the story that then, makes its way into the show.

The Bear that involves remembering he's at a four star restaurant, but it involves impossibly New York hot dogs.

So what is what?

And let's, What are you doing here?

You're.

Yeah.

So just, chopping up, some of the eggplant as the, as the onions cook.

And most of these things are just rough chopped, you know, getting the eggplants into, some cubes.

All right.

And.

All right, so the hot dog story.

What in the world is a story about New York hot dogs doing.

Bring in a fine dining.

Yes.

Restaurant.

Well, it has to do with, you know, visitors to New York City.

And, yes, they're enjoying an incredible meal at his restaurant, but, they the the staff discovers that that they haven't had a New York hot dog.

Yes.

They're chatting about leaving about.

Yeah, we've eaten there, but gosh, we never eat from a hot dog cart.

So what does what does somebody who believes in unreasonable hospitality do they find a way to have staff members?

You know, leave the restaurant and go find that hot dog and plate it beautifully and surprise the guests with exactly what they wanted?

Yeah, sort of sort of crazy, you imagine.

And he describes it.

It's quite hilarious bringing these hot dogs to the to the chef.

And the chef has to on the spot figure out he's he quarters them.

He plates them with these beautiful, you know, paisley smears of, of, condiments.

And it comes to the table and they, you know, the people are just astonished, delight in my, my hair stand up even thinking about that description.

And they've got a story forever later.

Yes.

And the staff does as well.

Yes, absolutely.

So, so that's in, if you are, if you watch the bear and I'm just, sectioning some, some, citrus in here, I'm going to use a slightly friendlier knife for the same thing, but with respect to my fingers.

So in the the episode of The Bear, it's, it has to do since it's set in Chicago, it has to do with deep dish pizza.

So they run out and get a deep dish pizza and, and deliver that to a table and same, same sort of thing.

Just absolute delight.

So can we think of maybe some other examples or examples that spoke to you, about going above and beyond helping, you know, doing more than just serving people, but giving people a little thrill, and often a laugh as part of that.

But any other scenes that stood out to you?

Well, I there's another scene to you that I love, where the staff ends up, getting sleds and arranging an after dinner sledding experience and the magic of a snow, you know, first snowfall, or family's first experience with snow.

And so that was another one that I just thought, you know, how magical.

Yes.

Yeah.

And, you know, as you're reading these, he says things like, I, you know, I know this seems over the top.

It seems unreasonable.

And yet this is precisely what the business of hospitality is doing.

And speaking of unreasonable, I have to say I do love fennel, but it is an unreasonable vegetable.

So there's also he talks about, and so I just added the added in the eggplant.

Okay.

And with just a little bit of, extra water too.

And so then we're going to cover that and let it soften.

Okay.

That's great.

And have any of the spices gone in there yet or not quite yet.

They'll still go in.

We'll let we'll let the eggplant soften and I like to cook the eggplant a little bit longer than the recipe says too, as well.

Okay.

That's just my Welsh.

Well, well-cooked eggplant is.

It is a gift to all.

So some of the, some of the descriptions that he gives of the kind of service are, you know, he says most people think about things almost to the end, but it's the final inch that matters.

So there's all these just wonderful examples and a layer in this fennel and, wonderful examples of something we have all experienced, which is, you know, the delay.

You sit down at a, at the table, they ask you what kind of water you want, you know, still or sparkling or whatever.

And then you have to sort of wait.

And so they've developed this system to just make everything as quick and smooth as possible.

And it's like baseball.

Yeah, they took it.

They took a note from baseball, using hand signals.

So the person that is receiving the order for the water is signaling behind their behind their back.

It's kind of great if someone wants ice, no ice, sparkling water.

And, I just thought that was fantastic.

And you know, what was so interesting to me, too is, timing and teamwork.

Is everything nice?

And so all of this experience of delivering great service, it's very much time, you know, they time out and stuff or.

Yeah, just to make sure, something that was taking maybe a minute to get the water to the table is now, you know, before the person even leaves.

That leaves the table.

Yeah.

Before the another team member is delivering the order to them.

So.

Yeah.

So I'm guessing, I mean, I read this as somebody who eats in restaurants, and now we'll be paying attention to this.

But you, this is kind of your business, right?

So how you know, as you were reading this, as somebody who's thinking about, you know, the experience of people in, in our city.

Yeah.

What kind of spoke to you and, and where do you see yourself kind of making use of these ideas?

Yeah.

There's, there's so much because the, environment downtown is so dynamic and, but we think about it, very high level, like the lighting, the sidewalks, you know, what kind of businesses, what's open?

How do you find your way between things all the way down to very, very tiny details.

So, things like when you're at an event, having having those extra moments of surprise and delight.

Yeah.

So baked in.

One of the favorite things that I watched this summer, was watching our interns develop different ideas for surprise and delight and, you know, they would come up with things like for Saint Patrick's Day parade.

We had these little, shamrock, lollipops, and they put these little stickers on it that said, you know, we're so lucky to have you and, you know, they would just hand them out to people.

So small things.

That means so much.

I'm gonna put some mint on here, and we're going to take a little break here and look at some images of Guidara at work.

He's got a very rich Instagram and we will be right back.

Willow’s soup has been, boiling away here.

Simmering down the apricots look fantastic.

And you're going to finish seasoning it right now.

We are.

So the eggplant has cooked up beautifully.

Oh, that looks great.

The green peppers and the chopped tomatoes.

And now I'm going to add these delicious spices.

We've got cinnamon allspice and a little bit of cayenne.

So that's going to go in just a little bit of salt.

Oops.

And then the paprika.

All right.

Wonderful.

And I'm going to be making two.

Mocktails here.

So in the spirit of allowing everybody at a party or gathering to feel included, there's lots of people who are cutting back or.

No, you know, not drinking alcohol.

There's no reason you can't have an absolutely fantastic and unreasonably delicious drink.

And for me, I don't drink hard alcohol at all.

But we've inherited these beautiful, this beautiful bar where this lead crystal.

So it's a nice opportunity to use fancy glasses sometimes.

Just for every day.

Just for fun.

Yeah, just for fun.

Just to be unreasonably wonderful.

So this is a I'm going to make a, dirty lemon tonic that starts with some, some lemon zing.

My brother in law makes this.

It's the preserved lemon, blend it up together.

A little bit of sugar.

We're going to muddle it together and then serve that with tonic over ice.

And we're getting started on the cake.

Yes.

The citrus olive oil cake.

I'm adding a little bit of orange zest, and then I'm going to zest the second orange here right into the sugar.

And I love this.

Smells so good.

You can see the little oils coming right off of this.

All right.

And then that's a way to just infuse the, everything together in the sugar.

That is a really effective technique.

And I'm just putting some lemon wheels in the bottom here, and I'm going to muddle this.

So, that we've talked a little bit about unreasonable hospitality as it's experienced by the people who are the recipients.

But part of, actually a lot of gardeners argument is you got to turn all of that same attention to the staff that this is team, what he calls, he quote, somebody is saying, calling it enlightened hospitality building the team.

So maybe we could talk about that for a little bit.

Elements of of what it means to invest in your staff.

Yeah.

It's, I mean and providing that level of exceptional, customer service or hospitality, you need to empower people to bring their, their best self.

Yeah.

It's nice to the job.

And it's so much about teamwork and handoffs between people and great communication.

So, we have, you know, DSV has a small but mighty team, and but we're also working in an ecosystem where our restaurants and our retailers are our partners.

The city is our partner.

The South Bend Police Department are our partners are ambassadors.

So there's all of these people in the ecosystem that have an effect on, the downtown experience.

Yeah, I like that idea of ecosystem.

That's that's really lovely.

Yeah.

Earlier this spring with the Downtown Dining Association, we did a wonderful, customer service workshop, and our staff has continued to do one of the practices that we learned, which is daily affirmations.

I love this idea.

Yeah.

So we start each day, each day with our affirmations.

And the last affirmation is, something fabulous happens to me today.

Yeah.

Thank you, April, for having me on this show, because this is definitely a fabulous.

Oh, that's great.

It's fabulous for us, too.

So really wonderful.

And this is yoga going into.

Yes, yes.

Clean home milk, yoga, three eggs.

I'm going to put in a half a teaspoon of vanilla and then we're going to mix that together.

All right.

That sounds great.

So when he, again Will Guidara is a restauranteur But so many of these insights are just transferable to any organization, to an academic department, to a family, even, I would say, what it means to invest in the people around you.

So that they can deliver.

And part of that is, listening really well, you mentioned communication as just essential, making them feel welcome to share ideas and trying new things.

Maybe step into leadership roles before they're ready.

Yes, that's a major theme of his.

Good.

Yeah.

Look at these beautiful yolks.

I just love this color is just gorgeous.

Yeah.

And these olive oil cakes just last for a long time.

They, If if you don't eat them all in the first day.

Yeah.

I'm gonna top this with some tonic.

And, of course, you could make this.

You know, you could put gin or, vodka or something else in this if you wanted to make it, an alcoholic drink.

But it is super refreshing.

It's got the little umami and salt of the from the preserved lemon at the bottom.

And all these fresh lemon wheels are just really wonderful.

I'm gonna make a, little topper for this here.

Maybe the other side of that water ice.

So I'm going to start to just, slowly combine in the dry ingredients.

This is white whole wheat flour, a little bit of baking powder and salt.

Okay.

Just gently.

And then this, at what point do you combine the vegetables in the.

Does this need to cook for a little while longer.

Is probably ready.

So maybe just let's take a minute to finish getting the dry ingredients in.

And that smells fantastic.

And those warm spices are just a really, really lovely.

And I'm just making it a little, unreasonably cute little skewer here, here of just of course, the Toronto olives.

And, so we're going to finish these drinks this way.

I want to you can drink these all day long.

It's lemon, and tonic.

So are there other scenes or examples of the book that you feel like kind of capture this idea of what it means to invest in the people around you?

He definitely has been in some negative environments.

And this is like, again, we see that yes, in the bear.

Yes.

Making a plan to have a kind of workplace that it is not the, Kitchen Confidential.

Brutal, right?

I love the example that he gives about the decision to, open the restaurant on Thanksgiving, which historically people had always had off.

And, they thought of it as sort of this, you know, a coveted holiday.

And, but when they really looked at it, they realized that most of the staff, was didn't have enough time off to travel to be with family anyways.

Right.

And so after they did a beautiful Thanksgiving dinner service, they, served the same Thanksgiving meal to the staff.

So, yeah, they, you know, they weren't they weren't considered, you know, a second tier guest.

They got the same level of quality and beautiful presentation, and it brought the whole staff together for a beautiful meal, you know, after, at the end of the Thanksgiving, service and then, they were able to build in time during a different time of the year that, you know, did make a difference for the staff.

Absolutely.

Instead of just that, that Thursday.

Yeah.

Going to put some pomegranate juice here in the base for these pomegranate sparklers and, Oops.

Making a little splash here.

So, yeah, he's one of his claims throughout the book is to treat everyone like a VIP.

Yes.

There's a wonderful.

If you're a reader of the New York Times, Frank Bruni plays a very large role.

I kind of forgotten that he started.

Now he's a columnist.

Of course, but he started as the, as a restaurant reviewer.

And so there's, lots of kind of inside baseball about what it's like to, to, to be paying attention to a critic when they come in.

But part of his point is you should note every person.

Every person.

Yeah, exactly.

Yep, yep.

So yeah, you never know when they're going to come in.

And every service should be, absolutely top notch.

All right.

I've got my olive oil.

The texture.

And it it smells so good.

And we're going to add it to the pan and get it into the oven.

All right.

And I just put a little bit of honey in this pomegranate juice I'm going to put just maybe living dangerously over here 1 or 2 ice cubes in here.

And then you just finish it with some, seltzer and a little sprig of Bruce, rosemary and a few, a few pips.

And then I'm going to make the glaze that goes on that gorgeous cake.

Oh my gosh, the color of this is just exquisite.

So and all these warm citrus flavors, they would be great for any time of year when you need a little a little bit of lift.

So I'm going to put this in here.

One of the points that I think brings together both the back of house experience and the front of house experience, is that unreasonable hospitality is too directional.

It feels good.

This is part of, it's an extremely positive, person, a positive speaker, and that good feeling that we get when we, when we help other people.

He wants us to kind of, to to zoom in on here, and I'm gonna.

Yeah, I think the delight on people's faces, you know, it's contagious.

It definitely nice.

The feedback loop of it makes you feel great, too.

Yeah.

All right.

So, so so I'm gonna put these in here.

Willow's finishing up here.

I'll make the little glaze right before we pull out the cake.

This is looks gorgeous.

We're going to take a little break now and see some images, from Willow's professional life and unreasonable hospitality.

We will be right back in this.

This smells.

Oh, a good, good.

Wow wow wow.

Happy, happy.

Willow Weatherall and I have made an unreasonably hospitable feast.

Inspired by Wil Guidara's book.

Tell me what you made here.

This is just smelling so delicious.

Yes.

So this is the Armenian, lentil soup with apricots.

I'm going to just, put a little bit of plain yogurt, on top with a little bit of fresh mint.

Oh, my gosh, the smell.

These warm spices just smells so fantastic.

And then this olive oil cake.

How is that finished?

Yeah.

So that's just with, a little citrus glaze and these beautiful, edible flowers.

Okay.

And you can use any kind of citrus that you like for that glaze, which is just, lemon juice or orange juice.

Yeah.

Delicious.

So, and I've made some, nonalcoholic drinks here.

Pomegranate sparkler and a dirty lemon tonic.

Nice excuse for people who don't drink alcohol to eat olives.

So.

So what will stay with you from this book, which is about, restaurant world in part, but it really can apply to almost anything.

I think what will stay with me is, the infinite creativity that people can bring to elevating an experience for someone else.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And also the great feeling that it brings.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So, he's got a wonderful Instagram full of clips where he captures a lot of this argument, but part of it is really about leadership and what it means to be the kind of leader who inspires and empowers other people to bring their best selves.

Yes.

Which we see all the time in, in our world and in downtown South, including all of the young people who are being, mentored in what it means to learn to be creative and to be unreasonably hospitable.

So I think we should have a little toast.

I'm going to try this one here.

Let's see how these are.

Oh, it's got a nice little nice little taste.

Oh that's delicious.

Oh, good.

So, I'm going to try this one next.

So we hope you will continue to cook.

Adventurously.

We did a great job here I think, and read widely.

Thank you so much for joining me.

I had a blast.

Thank you.

And we will see you next time on Dinner and a Book.

Now I want to try this one.

This WNIT Local production has been made possible in part by viewers like you.

Thank you.

Dinner and A Book is supported by the Rex and Alice A. Martin Foundation of Elkhart, celebrating the spirit of Alice Martin and her love of good food and good friends.