Narrator> Making It Grow is brought to you in part by Certified South Carolina.

This cooperative effort among farmers, retailers and the South Carolina Department of Agriculture helps consumers identify foods and agricultural products that are grown, harvested or raised right here in the Palmetto State.

Mcleod Farms in McBee, South Carolina, family owned and operated since 1916.

This family farm offers seasonal produce, including over 40 varieties of peaches.

Wesley Commons, a full service continuing care retirement community located on more than 150 wooded acres in Greenwood, South Carolina.

Additional funding provided by the South Carolina Farm Bureau Federation and Farm Bureau Insurance and Boone Hall Farms.

♪ opening music ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ Amanda> Good evening.

We're so glad that you can join us tonight for Making It Grow.

I'm Amanda McNulty and I'm a Clemson horticulture agent and I graduated a long time ago.

So I love coming over here because I can learn all the new stuff from the new people who have new information.

And Katie Collins, you are filling in today for Teresa and you are a water resources agent.

And what all does that involve?

>> Well, a little bit of everything.

So people have lots of questions related to water.

I do a lot with pond management, so helping people get rid of unwanted weeds or managing their fish populations.

And then we help farmers out assessing center pivots for them to make sure they're applying water at the rate that they want to the best for their crops and saves water and money.

I remember when I found out from you all that sometimes you have to lime ponds just like you lime land.

Katie> Yeah.

Yeah.

So a lot of our ponds here are low in pH and alkalinity and lime helps bring that up and keep the pH stable and also help nutrients be more available for the types of algae you want in your pond.

Amanda> The right type.

Katie> The right type.

Unfortunately, the wrong type too sometimes.

(laughing) Amanda> Drew Jeffers, you've come down from Greenville, where you are the horticulture agent.

Drew> That's right.

I moved from Spartanburg, I was the Spartanburg agent, moved over to Greenville, so I'm happy to be here.

I've been here a long time, so I'm glad to be back.

Amanda> We have missed you a lot.

And I'm honestly, it's fun when it's any special time of the year and you go over to that wonderful, Reedy River Park and everybody is there in their prom dress or their wedding dress and I mean, is that still kind of the thing.

Drew> That is the thing Reedy River park is still very popular.

Amanda> Isn't it wonderful though, as a water quality agent to see that has been such a success story cleaning up that river?

Drew> Yeah, it's been very good.

The city and the county has done a very good job with that.

Amanda> Yeah, it's pretty beautiful.

And that funky bridge that you hope nobody's going to jump on when you're walking across it.

Drew> That's the fun part.

(laughing) Amanda> Well, you know, first then I'll come after you get to the other end.

Okay.

And Mary Vargo.

You are at the South Carolina Botanical Garden and we're just thrilled that you can come down and give us the news from there.

How are things up there now?

Mary> It's going well.

I mean, it's in the swing of summer, so there's lots of things growing along with the weeds, lots of weeds, lots of fun, new things that I've put in the garden, lots of new projects with our new director.

There's lots of life within the staff and things going on.

So it's a fun thing to be a part of.

Amanda> So you get...you have an area, you've been able to add some plants.

Mary> Yeah, Yeah.

I mean, we're doing some rejuvenation in some areas, so there's a lot of construction going on.

So that kind of gives me an opportunity to play a little bit before we redesign certain areas.

So for now, it's just sort of my little playground to put plants in and people are enjoying it.

So it's nice to see the public reaction.

Amanda> Great, great, great.

And then, Rob Last, you're, the horticulture agent for Lexington and Richland.

And I think you're commercial horticulture.

>> Yes, that's correct, Amanda, Amanda> So, don't call you about our camellias.

I will certainly help out where I can, but my specialty is small fruit and vegetables.

Amanda> Okay.

And we went to the Brassica Field day.

And I think that y'all grow an amazing amount of brassicas over there, leafy, leafy brassicas.

Rob> That's correct.

Yes.

You know, obviously the staple with collards, but there's a lot of cabbage cauliflowers with the brassicas, a lot of mustard greens, turnip greens, all of those sorts of things are right in season right now.

And are tasting really good.

Amanda> They are delicious and healthy.

Good for you too.

Rob> That's the thing.

Yeah.

Really, really good for you.

Amanda> Well, thank you for helping them keep such a high quality product across the United States, because I think we, we send everywhere.

Rob> Absolutely.

Yes.

Food, food, certainly fruit and vegetables is a national business these days.

Amanda> Isn't that's something.

Rob> Yes.

Amanda> Little old South Carolina, who would have known?

Anyway.

And a little bit later, we're so excited because we're going to I had the incredible opportunity to interview Doug Tallamy, who wrote Bringing Nature Home and Nature's Best Hope.

He was at Riverbank Zoo.

Wingard's Nursery sponsored bringing him down.

Please pay attention and try to follow some of the things.

It really is important.

We've lost 3 billion birds in the last 50 years, but there are things we can do.

We are nature's best hope.

Right?

And then also Austin Jenkins, who's a naturalist and just so much fun, came on and we've talked about soil formation.

It all starts with rocks.

How about that?

And then Katie, I think you've probably got some gardens of the week.

Katie> I do.

We have some wonderful pictures this week.

Joan Penland sent us a gorgeous picture of endless summer hydrangeas in Jonesville.

Kim Mitchell sent us a friendly feline and a view overlooking the orchard flower garden apiary and small coop in Salem, South Carolina.

Betty Futch sent us blackberries growing in Union County, complete with a Union County 4-H sign.

We love to see it.

Amanda> Whoa.

Katie> Linda Grooms sent us some vigorous squash plants, which she describes as "ginormous".

Deborah Hightower sent us a galvanized stock tank that's being used as a container garden in Hartsville, South Carolina.

Very creative.

Amanda> Yeah, aren't people fun and... and there's some plants that's really fun to get up off the ground because you can see them so much.

Katie> Yeah.

Amanda> Yeah.

Okay we thank everybody who sends those in.

So I think also you probably have some questions that people have submitted.

Katie> I sure do.

Yeah.

We got some great questions.

We'll start with Jerry in Greer, South Carolina.

He asks, "I hear different things about "when is the best time to aerate my Bermuda grass.

"Is it now or should I wait till fall?"

Amanda> Oh, Drew, some, how do you decide if you need to aerate?

And does it vary from turf grass species to turf grass species?

Drew> It does vary from species to species, yes.

So what you want to do is, Jerry, you want to look at if you have Bermuda grass like a warm season, grass, like Bermuda grass, or Zoysia or Saint Augustine, Centipede you're looking at aerating between about "Mayish", mid-May, all the way through.

I'd say first part of July, you want to have it done by July 4th, if you can.

If it's fescue, however, like we have in the upstate, you want to make sure you're aerating in the fall.

Fall's the prime time.

You can get away with it in the, let's say, February, "March-ish."

But it's better to do it in September, September, October.

Amanda> Is there a little machine that you can often rent to do that?

Drew> Yes.

You can hire a landscaper to do that for you to actually aerate it.

We actually prefer core, we recommend core aeration.

Core aeration is best.

You can rent that yourself for a fee from local rental places.

Amanda> And the little plug that comes out, you just leave that.

Drew> You can leave it.

Amanda> And it's just going to add more soil back to the plant.

Mary> I just raked mine in when I... Drew> You can rake them in.

I usually go back over them with a lawnmower and actually break it up that way.

Amanda> That's a cool idea.

Okay.

Well, thank you so much.

I really appreciate it.

Katie> Our next question comes from Jenny in Murrells Inlet.

She says, "The cilantro plants I got in April are flowering already, "but are really small with spotty leaves.

"What can I do to make them healthier?"

Amanda> Oh, goodness.

You know, some things like cool weather and some things like hot weather.

What's going on here, Mary?

Mary> Yeah, so I have cilantro that re-seeds in my yard every year, so I've gotten pretty good about be out there looking at stuff, cleaning things up.

And I'm like, my cilantro is coming up.

And for me in the upstate I live in Piedmont.

I usually start seeing my cilantro plants in March, really early March, I'll start to see their little leaves.

It's a cool season, annuals.

So it really likes cool weather to become established and that really helps the plant create this really nice leafy base that you're going to use that cilantro for.

So I imagine that she's probably planted this add a little bit of a later date.

Ideally, it could take...it can take some light frost So you could have planted this in, in early March or so or start seeds at that point.

But I'm imagining, you know, she planted a little bit too late.

That warm weather that we really get just sends it off and it bolts, so it flowers and then it's going to go to seed, which is coriander.

Cilantro makes coriander seed, but the spotting on the leaves makes me think that it might be either some fungal bacteria or maybe possibly a bacterial disease which can be caused by really high amounts of, of rainfall, which we've been having quite a bit here lately.

So I think Rob has actually done some research with this before.

Rob> Typically what you find...those spots sound very much to me like bacterial blight to cilantro, That's caused by the back by pseudomonas bacteria.

Amanda> Okay.

Rob> It usually shows up more at about 7 to 10 days after a heavy rainfall event.

So what happens is the leaf gets bruised.

That damages the cuticle cortex of the leaf and actually allows the bacteria to gain entry into the leaf, causing those little brown spots.

Mary> So, it's the heavy rainfall causing the bruising?

Rob> It can be.

Yes.

Mary> Okay.

Interesting.

Amanda> Is it something that you can if you had a big healthy cilantro plant, could you cut that off and just let the new part come out?

Rob> Absolutely.

I mean, the bacteria itself Any of the lesions on the leaves are not actually going to be harmful to you.

So if it's, if it's a minor spotting, you can still go ahead and use it.

It's still going to be good for that purpose.

Mary> Yeah, I'd imagine though when it's flowering, it's probably almost at the end of its lifecycle.

You could just let it go to seed, keep the seeds, replant them or scatter them about in your yard and then planting them earlier.

And I think sometimes you might be able to avoid some of that rainfall, if you plant it earlier, possibly.

Rob> To, to a degree it's always a difficult... Mary> Maybe a more healthier plant that's established early might be able to fend off some of those.

Rob> You certainly get that better resistance and acquired resistance when you replant earlier and the right time.

Mary> Yeah.

Amanda> If it goes to seed, those seeds know when they want to germinate.

I believe.

So you don't have to worry about that.

Mary> Exactly.

Yeah.

The...coriander seeds that, the cilantro form that.

And then what I do is I freeze my green seeds because I like to use them in pickling or stuff like that, but they'll eventually harden over or you can just let them seed, into your yard.

Amanda> Oh goodness.

all to get something that some people don't like and it tastes like soap, but I like it a lot.

Mary> Me too.

Amanda> Okay, well, well, what else Katie?

Katie> So, we have Jill in Batesburg and she says, "I have some shriveled "blueberries on my bushes and I want to know "what they are."

Amanda> Okay, well, my fruit and vegetables specialist Rob> That sounds like one for me, Amanda, definitely.

So, typically what we find this year is those shriveled berries can be related to a disease called Mummy Berry.

It's a really, it's a really fascinating little disease, actually.

Amanda> Okay.

Rob> Now when we see the symptoms of the actual shriveled berries, it's too late to do anything about Amanda> Oh!

Rob> other than hygiene and sanitation.

So one step that I would always recommend if you see any shriveled berries, remove them from the plants and dispose of them.

Amanda> Well, don't drop them in the garden.

Rob> Don't drop them in the garden.

Amanda> How about the compost heap?

Rob> I would be reluctant to do that as well because you can get some pathogens released that way.

Yeah, and the municipal trash would be the best way to get rid of them.

Make sure you rake up any fallen berries, as well, because they could harbor that source of infection for next year.

Amanda> Okay.

Rob> And what happens is the fungus germinates late, late winter.

So literally before the birds, or the blueberries break.

Amanda> Gracious.

Rob> Those spores are then released at the point, of bud break.

So the infection from Mummy Berry is actually occurring really early in the spring.

However, if you've minimized some of the sources of infection, those spores been released, that will help to reduce the population.

But there are some really good bio-pesticides that are coming through that are applied on about a weekly or ten day basis from the onset of bud break through to the end of flowering will help to manage that Mummy Berry problem.

Amanda> Well, and bio-pesticides sounds like kind of a cool term.

What is a bio-pesticide?

Rob> So, this particular bio-pesticide that I'm thinking is an extract of bacillus, pestilus subtilis.

So it's a bacteria- Amanda> -Like the BT that we... Rob> Exactly, yes.

Amanda> So happy for those mosquito dunks.

Rob> Rather than thuringiensis it's actually a subspecies of pestilus subtilis.

and that's really, really good and active against certain fungi.

The Mummy Berry fungi is really active against.

So it's a really good way of managing that Mummy Berry problem.

Drew> And that's, and that's a natural soil bacterial, as well.

So it's very good- Amanda> -and usually it has only limited targets some of them do.

Rob> Some of them do.

This one is actually quite broad spectrum.

Amanda> Which is fine because I mean, there are other things that it's going to protect against.

Rob> Absolutely.

And as Drew says, they're naturally occurring soil bacteria, as well.

So they're naturally in the environment and actually really helping us to do what we need to do without relying on conventional chemistry or running the risk of resistance.

Mary> Do birds still eat some of those shriveled berries, or is that are they still a food source for birds?

They can be.

They can be.

Amanda> They probably rather have something.

Mary> Probably, something juicy.

Amanda>I'd rather have a fresh fruit Mary> A vineyard.

(laughs) Amanda> Okay.

Well, as I said earlier, we got to go to Riverbank, Zoo and Garden and have an interview with Doug Tallamy and the author of Bringing Nature Home and Nature's Best Hope.

And you are Nature's Best Hope.

So let's see what he has to say.

I'm talking with Professor Doug Tallamy an Entomology professor at the University of Delaware.

And, Doug, you have pointed out to us the importance of gardening for nature and give us the statistic that really drives home why we've got to be so critically enthusiastic about doing this.

Doug> Well, unfortunately, there's a lot of statistics.

The one that people talk about is the loss of our birds.

We've lost 3 billion breeding birds in the last 50 years.

That's a third of our North American bird population already gone.

But we already have.

We've got global insect decline.

The last figure I show is we've lost 75% of our insects.

The little things that run the world...not good.

So pretty much everything is in decline.

Amanda> And one of the things that when I've been following you for years and one of the first things you talked about was larval food sources, because even I think a hummingbird, everything still they just eat sugar water.

But how many...don't most birds have to feed their young sources of protein?

Doug> Absolutely.

96% of our terrestrial birds rear their young on insects.

And most of those insects are caterpillars.

And that includes hummingbirds.

They're when they're breeding 80% of their diet is insects.

It's not much sugar water.

You need protein to make a body.

That's right.

And...and it's not just any insect.

It's...it's those caterpillars.

They're soft.

Amanda> Soft.

Doug> They're high in protein and fats.

They're high in carotenoids, which vertebrates can't make.

So it's a great source.

of carotenoids for the birds.

Well, they have very thin...exoskeletons.

Amanda> Who would want to have to stuff a roach down their babies mouth?

Doug> Well, a beetle.

A beetle is.

I talk about caterpillars being like sausages.

Amanda> Yeah.

Doug> A beetle's like a tank and so much of a beetle is "un-digestible" and it's got sharp edges.

It rips up the baby's mouth.

So.

So caterpillars are enormously important.

And not just a few thousands.

6000 and 9000 caterpillars to get one clutch of chickadees to the point where they leave the nest.

Amanda> Whoa!

Doug> And after they leave the nest, the parents continue to feed them caterpillars another 21 days.

So you're talking about tens of thousands of caterpillars.

Amanda> Just I mean, for one little nest of a small bird.

Yeah, a small bird.

And... And then the other thing is that because of co-evolution, most caterpillars can't have certain only certain plants which their larva can digest.

Is that correct?

Doug> That is correct.

That's called host plant specialization.

And a perfect example is the monarch.

It only eats milkweeds.

But 90% of our caterpillars are host plant specialists, just like the monarchs.

And they have to specialize because the plants don't want to be eaten.

They want to capture the energy from the sun and use it for their own growth and reproduction.

So they protect their tissues with nasty chemicals.

Yeah, they don't taste good.

Amanda> And then some, like the monarchs, learn to get around this.

Doug> That's where that co-evolution comes along.

They they get specialized enzymes and behavioral adaptations and life history adaptations that allow them to get past those defenses on milkweeds.

But they didn't do that for any other plant.

So then they're locked into eating milkweeds.

And if you take milkweeds out of your yard and put hostas in... there go your monarchs.

Amanda> But fortunately, we have some plants that are easy to grow that also support a huge number of caterpillars.

And I guess the mighty oak.

Doug> The mighty oak is the best.

It's the best across the nation.

They support more than 950 species of caterpillars.

No other plant genus comes close to that.

So if you're going to plant a single tree, if you're going to do one thing to your yard, that's going to help biodiversity, plant an oak.

Amanda> And then also, you know, people do all this crazy volcano mulching and stuff like that.

But the caterpillars, the majority of them, I believe, fall to the ground and they need to go into the ground.

So you really should have a huge mulched area that allows them to and they're not coming down there to bother you as soon as they land, they want to go down into the soil.

Doug> They pupate and you get egg larva, pupa, and then adult, and then they go underground to pupate or they spin a cocoon in the leaf litter.

But we don't have a leaf litter under our trees.

We have grass that goes right up to it.

So it's very difficult for those caterpillars to get down there.

So we've got to do two things.

We've got to make caterpillars, but we also have to shrink the lawn.

Amanda> Yes.

Doug> We've got 44 million acres of lawn, which is an area the size of New England.

Amanda> I don't believe that lawns do anything for the caterpillars or the birds, if I'm not mistaken.

Doug> Lawns don't do anything for anything.

They're pretty.

There's four things every landscape has to do.

It has to support the watershed.

It has to support pollinators.

It has to support the food web, those caterpillars, and it has to sequester carbon, pull carbon out of the atmosphere.

Lawn does none of those things.

So having less lawn is going to help all aspects of our ecosystem.

And a good way to have a lush lawn is to put that bed under your oak tree because the beds make it right out to the drip line.

That's what the caterpillars want.

That's what the tree wants, and you'll have less lawn.

And then around the edges of our property where if you just have lawn, any pesticides or fertilizers might get down into the watershed.

We can use the edges of our lawn also to plant perhaps smaller trees and have some little some little patches of perennials, Doug> Sure.

Amanda> Herbaceous perennials- Doug> Sure.

The more plants you have on your property, the more pollutants are going to be intercepted before they get into the watershed.

But remember, we don't need any pesticides.

We use pesticides pretty much for no reason.

The only ones that that really are necessary are to control termites and real termite people use baits now.

Amanda> And you have clever ways of trying to reduce your mosquito population.

You get a water bucket and put some straw hay in it and then some mosquito dunks.

And so if you've got an easy place for female mosquitoes, the mosquito dunks are specific only to the mosquito larvae.

Doug> Only to aquatic diphtheria.

But the only aquatic diphtheria in your bucket is a mosquito larva.

And it's there because you've created this irresistible brew.

The female can't help but layer eggs in them, so you draw them from your property.

They lay their eggs there, put in one mosquito dunk, Amanda> -and they last for a long time.

Doug> You're done.

Yeah.

Twelve dollars for a season's worth of control.

Amanda> How about that?

Then the other thing we can do is fire ants are such a problem down here and Clemson has wonderful resources on how to control those.

A lot of people still come down and put pesticide over their entire yards.

There's one thing that is, although it's not organic, it's a bait, and you just put like a pound for a whole year.

And then they're also some organic.

Doug> They will take it back to the colony.

Amanda> Yeah, I know.

It's really people are working hard to find ways to try to be a part of the solution, I believe.

Doug> You know, when we spread pesticides and herbicides all over our living spaces, we're living in that we've created an envelope of poison and know we don't die tomorrow.

But 30 years from now, we get cancer.

Where did that come from?

Amanda> And tell me about what would happen if we did not have the decomposing insects.

Doug> 90% of the organic material out there dies and falls to the ground.

It's our decomposing insect decomposers that turn that over.

If we didn't have that, E.O.

Wilson says that the Earth would rot, all we would have is bacteria and fungi.

It would take forever.

You'd be this tangled mess of rotting vegetation very slowly.

But the insects are turning it over very quickly.

So insects are essential for life on earth, life as we know it.

And without insects, humans would disappear, which is an important point.

So this war we have against insects is a war against ourselves.

Amanda> Also, I think that we need sometimes to provide water sources.

Where you're from, you probably have to put water that's not frozen in the winter.

But down here, birds do need water.

Doug> Yeah, having a moving water source.

So a friend calls it a bubbler, but even just a dripping hose because birds are attracted to clean water, the old birdbath that just sit there and get stagnant, they don't like that.

But if you have a little pump that circulates it, it signifies clean water.

And yeah, particularly for migrating birds, they fly up to 300 miles a night.

They've got to come down, have a big drink.

Amanda> And when you talk about that, we are nature's best hope.

You have now a movement that I believe you said 75% of the land in North America is.

Doug> 78% of the lower 48 states is privately owned, 85% east of the Mississippi.

So if we don't practice conservation on private property, we're going to fail.

And failure is not an option.

So, unless we have something called Homegrown National Park, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

We need to enlist everybody, millions of property owners who are going to practice good earth stewardship right at home.

That will turn this around.

It really will.

And there's enough people who have done it, including myself.

I see what happened at our property.

Nature's really resilient.

If you put the right plants there, it rebuilds itself and we can increase biodiversity very quickly.

Amanda> As we move towards smaller yards now.

Some people think, well, I can't do anything, but I believe you've talked about people who have teeny little properties and they plant natives and then they go out and start looking at the different caterpillars they have.

It's kind of astonishing.

Doug> Yeah, small properties work if you have no property, if you have a balcony on...in apartment complex container plants with native plants, and you can now go to our website Homegrown National Park.org and there's a whole list of the appropriate native plants that do well in containers and different eco-regions.

So there's no reason, that's a pile of bricks with no plant material there.

If everybody had plants on their balconies, it's all of a sudden an important resource for the migrating monarch, for the native bees... that are nearby.

We can do it everywhere, cities included.

Amanda> You'll laugh at me, but we live in a house that was built in 1880 and we don't have central heat or air.

And if we did not have oak trees and pecan trees in our yard, let me tell you, we could not survive in South Carolina.

Doug> Yeah, those big trees throw shade and they'll lower the temperature 15, 10 to 15 degrees in the summertime, and it protects you from winter wings.

Amanda> There's just for every single purpose.

This makes great sense.

And it's not going to be that difficult, is it?

Doug> No, it's not.

It's...fun.

You can...you can see the results and it's not that difficult.

And, you know, if you don't garden and a lot of people don't, we're trying to build an industry of ecological landscapers that you can hire and they'll come do it for you.

But not doing it in the future is not an option.

We can't live without nature because that creates the life support that we depend on.

We call them ecosystem services and we need them everywhere, not just in parks and preserves.

So this is kind of a must do movement that would involve gardeners.

But even if you don't garden, the people you hire can do it.

Amanda> I want to thank you so much for sharing this information with our audience and for helping us all to understand that we as an individual can make a difference.

Doug> You are our nature's best hope.

Thanks for the opportunity.

Wingard, certainly did the Columbia area a favor by sponsoring this visit from Dr. Tallamy.

And I hope that all of you will take to heart some of the things he talked about and look into the Homegrown national park.

You know, getting rid of half of your lawn.

I think everybody should have enough for a slip and slide if you've got kids, because that's just so much fun and, you know, a picnic and things like that.

But, you know, just think, like I mean, then you don't have to be running the lawn mower as much, and you've got other things.

And anyway, so it's pretty, pretty...it's pretty easy to start making things one little chunk at a time.

Okay.

So, our dear friend, Ann Nolte.

You know Hank and Ann.

They had people gave me some of these beautiful little hydrangeas, and then I've got some echinacea and other stuff in here, some native pollinator plants.

So hats, hats, hats.

Thank you, Ann.

You always come in and rescue me.

I do appreciate it.

Well, let's see who else we can help.

Katie> Sure.

We have a question from Hazel in Sumter.

She asks, "I heard I can divide "in my Black-Eyed Susans.

"How do I do that?

"And what time of year is best?"

Amanda> Okay, well, Drew, division is fine because sometimes things get too clocked up and then you can share with people, too.

Drew> I was going to say that's the beauty of perennials is that they give back.

So, usually you can buy your perennials every 3 to 5 years, depending on what they are.

There are some things like iberis that you can't divide as easily, but Black Eyed Susan's are pretty easy.

You can pretty much just take two forks or just a pruning saw and basically just saw it in half, saw the root ball in half.

Amanda> This is easy Drew> What I've actually done in the past with Daylilies and you can do it with Rudbeckia and Cone Flowers too, is actually dip them in water and remove the soil and actually physically separate the root system without damaging the root system too bad.

Amanda> That's a good idea.

Drew> The only catch is you have to make sure you do that the right time of the year.

It's better to do it in Fall.

Amanda> Okay.

Drew> But I have done it in early spring.

Not too many crawls better to do it in Fall.

Amanda> So put it on your calendar.

I'm sorry, Mary.

Mary> You can get away with that, especially on a cloudy day.

I've done that early spring.

At the garden, it recedes everywhere.

So it's kind of a problem at the garden for us.

I'm fighting Rudbeckia quite a bit.

So I love when the birds eat them, but most of time I'm cutting off the top.

So to reduce the spread because it's pretty aggressive.

Amanda> Yeah, well, you know, for somebody who says they have a black thumb, sounds like a great thing to put out, don't you think?

Drew> They're an easy plant?

They really are an easy plant.

This one is a good one for beginners we recommend a lot.

Amanda> Thank you so much.

I appreciate it.

All right, Katie.

Katie> We have a question from Karen in Columbia.

She asks, "What plants can I grow "that can be harvested for tea?"

Amanda> For tea?

Katie> Yeah.

I love hot tea.

Amanda> Yeah, well, Mary, you've got some of everything up there in Piedmont in your home garden.

Do you have some things there?

You have some suggestions?

Mary> I totally do.

And I gave up caffeine last year, so herbal tea is something that I'm really into right now.

I know.

I can't believe I did it.

But, now I'm...off the... off the caffeine.

So herbal tea is for me.

So I've been doing a lot of really fun things.

I've got a lot of basil coming in my garden right now that I love to dry.

I've got this really interesting cultivar called Blue Spice Basil, and it's got these hints of like vanilla and almost like a little bit of a hint of cinnamon to it with a typical basil... that we're used to.

I feel like we're looking at a bottle of wine.

(laughing) Ever since I gave up caffeine.

I'm really into the herbal tea now, So I really love blue spiced basil.

It makes a really amazing tea.

I'll just hang up a bunch of it after I wash it, dry it, then shred it up and then pour it into a concoction, then drain it.

Also, I really well love passionflower.

That makes a really great tea.

And it also has some... Amanda> Maypop?

Mary> Yeah, maypop.

Amanda> If you can get to it before those...who eats it up?

Mary> Yeah, well, the caterpillar, which... Amanda> I can't...anyway, they really eat it up.

Mary> So that one's a great one.

And it also has a little bit of like a mood stabilizer effect on it.

So it'll make you...

It's supposed to, I think it advertises like it opens your heart to things.

So I love passionflower for that reason.

Yeah.

bronze fennel is a new one for me that I'm trying this year.

It's got a little bit of that "licorice-y" bitter taste that I think pairs well with if you mix it with other herbals.

Amanda> Now... have you found a way to to preserve these and keep them so you can have it in the wintertime too.

Mary> Yeah.

So I'll just dry them and I keep them in a glass jar so I'll just rinse everything really nicely, make sure there's no moisture in it so it's completely dry.

And then I just keep it in mason jars and take it out as needed.

But now that I don't drink caffeine anymore, I use it quite frequently.

So I'm harvesting tea quite a bit.

But pineapple, sage, lots of other things out there that you can do as well.

Amanda> Isn't there something that some people have been having trouble with basil in their gardens lately and is there a way to get around that?

Rob> Basil is really susceptible to a fungal pathogen, a oomycetes pathogen called downy mildew, and that will defoliate basil through the through the course of the summer.

So there's a couple of things you can do.

I tend to grow my basil through the summer indoors, so I'm in control of the environment.

You know, you think about it, our homes are air conditioned.

That's drawing the air out (Amanda coughs) It can be the fate of the.. Amanda> I don't have this... and I have one air conditioning unit.

So I guess I'm going to be out in the yard.

Rob> For those for those of us with central heat.

(laughing) It can work really nicely because we're managing the environment to benefit ourselves.

Amanda> You've got a lot of a sunny spot.

Rob> Yeah.

Which also then helps to inhibit the pathogen.

Amanda> Wow!

Rob> There is also... there have been released over the past few years downy mildew resistant basil varieties and those are those are a really good option to get us through the summer.

Amanda> Great!

Rob> But as Mary says, typically that's sort of the late spring, even into the early fall would be the typical time for basil.

Amanda> Okay, Well, thank you so much in your air conditioning, (laughing) at home.

That's why I don't have houseplants for one... Rob> It does.

It does make life easier.

(laughing) Amanda> Okay.

Katie> Mary, I love the idea of the tea plants and my neighbor has maypop growing in her yard.

I think it's Gulf Fritillary and the zebra longwing.

Mary> The orange one- Katie> -like that plant Yeah.

I'm going to have to go steal some.

Rob> Most of the herbs that you grow as well can be used as teas.

I mean, the famous ones being mint, obviously.

Amanda> Yeah.

Yeah, Yeah.

Drew> Or mint juleps.

Rob> Yeah.

(laughing) Amanda> Fun, fun, fun, fun, fun.

Okay, Katie.

Katie> We have a question from Fred in Lexington.

I hear a lot about integrated pest management, but I'm confused where to start?

Do you have any tips?

Amanda> Well, I'm so glad they called because that is a great way for us to be friends of the environment, I think.

Rob> Absolutely.

So let's start right at the beginning.

Integrated pest management is just utilizing every tool in our toolbox to manage pests and diseases.

So we mentioned about downy, the resistant cultivars with basil downy mildew.

Okay, That would be one way of having an integrated approach to reduce over reliance on pesticides.

If we think about insect management, if we're bringing in pollinators into our yards, and providing habitat for pollinators.

The chances are we're providing habitat for all the beneficials.

Amanda> Okay.

Rob> which will help us to do some of our pest control.

So it's really thinking about how we can manage the environment, to minimize sort of some of the person disease outbreaks and then move forward to how we can enhance our own environments to reduce our reliance on pesticides so we can use things like pruning to improve- Amanda> Yes.

Rob> that's a really good way of having an integrated strategy, avoiding drought stress in plants.

So stress plant is going to be more susceptible to pests and diseases.

If we take away that source of stress, we've immediately reduced our potential for problems.

And of course, planting the right plant in the right place really makes a huge difference.

Amanda> And I guess one of the things is sometimes people say, I sprayed this, I sprayed that, it hadn't helped.

I think you want to find out what the actual problem is and not just think, "Oh, this is a fungus.

"This is an insect."

Rob> That's the critical one, correct identification so you can develop the correct strategy for management is really crucial.

And that goes across the board.

Katie> Those IPM strategies are really broadly applicable to lots of different things.

So when we get calls about ponds saying, I have this algae, or this weed, how do I get rid of it?

What can I spray on it?

We kind of have to take a step back and see where are the nutrients coming from causing it to grow so rapidly.

Can we put it in a buffer or reduce those nutrients in some way?

So, a lot of those, like cultural and biological controls, kind of play in and can reduce our pesticide use a little bit.

Amanda> And then, I pass a lot of agricultural fields, big fields, big, big fields.

And I think they actually now sometimes go in and count the number of insect pests and decide is it...it would cost me more to go in and do a spray than what they're eating?

I can sit on my hands maybe.

Rob> Yeah, absolutely.

I mean, a lot of commercial agriculture and horticulture will work into thresholds and that's the number of insects that you've got that are going to cause economic damage just to find that spray.

And is it really worth is it really going to be worthwhile to spray?

I came across some research from Cornell University weeks ago.

You'd look at putting in hummingbird feeders into blueberries.

We've heard a lot about a spotted winged drosophila.

Amanda> That's that awful new- Rob> -That little fruit fly that comes in about June-July time.

Yeah, this is.

But the research has been looking at utilizing hummingbirds because hummingbirds would take up to 2000 insects like that on a daily basis for management of the spotted wing Drosophila population.

And it seems to be quite effective.

It seems to be quite effective.

The really cool idea.

Amanda> Yeah, everybody thinks hummingbirds just sugar water, But you know, that'd be like trying to live on Coca-Cola.

So they have to catch a lot of insects, to get protein and all those amino...all that other interesting stuff.

And wouldn't it be fun to go and pick your own spot and have hummingbirds flying around!

Rob> Yeah, that's a really good story and a really good environmental point as well.

Amanda> Well, thank you so much.

That's cool.

I appreciate it.

Austin Jenkins is a naturalist and he teaches right here in Sumter at USC Sumter.

And he's kind enough to sometimes come over and talk to us.

I'm talking to Austin Jenkins, who's a naturalist at the University of South Carolina in Sumter.

And Austin came over today, and I'm so excited because we're going to talk about how soils form.

Dr. Austin> Yeah, as a gardener, I just don't think I think about this enough, you know?

But our soils come from, you know, oftentimes the rocks, there's all kinds of stuff that makes soil what it is.

But a lot of the mineral content is from, is from rocks.

And so, you know, we have a state a lot of different state symbols and we have a state rock in South Carolina, and that's granite.

Amanda> Granite!

Dr. Austin> Blue granite is often the one, but granite is, you know, cooled off magma and so when our state was forming many years ago, continents were colliding and when melted- Amanda> So our mountains were volcanoes and things that came when north, when North Africa ran into what was I mean, when the plate tectonics business, was still really, really active.

Dr. Austin> Yeah.

What is now Africa and some other continents kind of moved our way and collided and- Amanda> -pushed up.

Dr. Austin> Yeah, there was, there was, there was a good bit of melting that ensued because of that, and when that cooled off, it turned into what we call granite rock.

But, but this breaks down over time, you know, 300 million years or so is when this formed and there's been a lot of erosion since then.

So if I live in the Sandhills and that's where I garden.

Amanda> Yeah.

Dr. Austin> And my advice to people who garden there is to move away.

But if you're kind of stuck there like me, you just make due, but you're gardening in sand.

Sand.

If you look in the middle of granite, you'll see white little crystals.

Amanda> Yes.

Dr. Austin> That's sand.

Okay, So that's quartz.

It breaks down and turns into sand.

It spread across our sand hills and coastal plain as well.

Amanda> So when we go to the beach, we're walking on old mountains.

Dr. Austin> Old mountains.

And yeah, so it does make our beaches and and our gardening spots, clay of the Piedmont.

Sometimes in granite you'll find a little pinkish color.

Feldspar is the type of mineral and this turns into clay.

It's so famous and you know the gardens of the Piedmont.

Amanda> Another, another challenge for gardeners.

Dr. Austin> Right, Right.

But if you can have the best of both worlds, right?

You have that loamy soil, clay that will hold a little bit of water and then quartz that will help water move through and as well as air.

And so.

Amanda> And clay, which is, you know, holds nutrients very well.

Dr. Austin> That's right.

That's right.

So but it's all thanks to, you know, strange rocks such as these.

Amanda> Now, this one looks pretty different.

The colors are so different.

Dr. Austin> This is also a cooled off magma.

So this would have occurred when the continents collided, but they separated.

Right.

We're not still, we can't still drive to Africa.

And so, you know, they're separated.

And when that happened, the crust of the earth thinned, Magma came up from underneath and formed a bunch of dikes, kind of like you would think about a dike now that holds back water.

Magma came up, cooled off and formed several hundred dikes across the southeast.

And that's full of.

So granite yields kind of an acidic soil.

We're used to that in South Carolina.

Amanda> Oh yeah!

Dr. Austin> This is full of magnesium and calcium.

So you can get a, you know, nutritious soil, basic soil sometimes.

And then if you're lucky enough to live in the coastal plain where we've had transgressions, where sea levels come back and forth, they've over time deposited their seashells.

That's of course, made of calcium.

So that breaks down and sometimes gives you a nice basic soil.

But that rock was found just outside of Sumter.

So.

Amanda> So this is limestone?

Dr. Austin> This is limestone, Yes.

Amanda> Okay.

Dr. Austin> So.

Amanda> Well, that is just too cool for school.

So these are the things that.. Dr. Austin> Become our gardens.

Amanda>...become our gardens with a few things mixed in.

Dr. Austin> That's right.

That's right.

Amanda> And it all started a couple of gazillion million years ago.

Dr. Austin> Yeah.

Well, I mean, there's different levels of beauty when you're gardening, right?

It's what's in front of your face?

But I love it too, because it.

There's different levels of beauty that go way back in time.

And you're experiencing not just the now, but the past when you're.

Amanda> Isn't it fun to live in South Carolina?

We have some cool things to look at.

Dr. Austin> Absolutely.

Amanda> Thank you.

Dr. Austin> Yeah.

Amanda> It's always fun when Austin comes and think how we get grains of sand at the beach.

It all start it out as something else, Well, let's see if we can use these smart people to help some other people.

Katie> Absolutely.

Danny in Gaffney has a question about one of my favorite vegetables.

He wants to know, is it too late to plant my okra?

Amanda> Ah, wonderful okra.

And, you know, I go to a vegetable store and I'm always picking through the little bitty ones.

Katie> They're good.

Amanda> Drew, it's a great southern crop.

Drew> It is.

Okra is one of my favorites, usually fried, but it's also good in gumbo.

But yeah, so okra, it's probably a little bit too late now in the season to plant.

Amanda> But it likes hot weather.

Drew> It likes hot weather.

So I would try to plant those, get those seed seedlings planted probably or even seeds direct, direct sowing probably sometime in mid to late night is when you really get those planted in the upstate.

Amanda> What if you just didn't get it planted since it has I mean, it goes on forever and ever and that's way over my head.

Now, could you plant it later?

Drew> You could probably do it.

You probably depends on the lay of the crop.

One trick I do to okra to get more okra on a plant, especially in small spaces, is I let the okra get so tall, however tall I want it, say four to six feet, and then I actually pinch the stem at the top, and you delay your crop by two weeks, but you actually get more okra because you get lateral branching.

Amanda> Oh, okay.

You don't have to pull it down.

Drew> Pull it down.

Okay.

Mary> For probably in some areas of the state like Low country, you could probably get away with planting them still.

Drew> I was thinking, the Low country you could definitely plant later.

Rob> You're going to get production all the way through, until first frost, so obviously with the upstate that's, that's going to be a limiting factor with the late planting.

Amanda> Okay.

Yeah.

Katie> You mentioned the small okra, which are so good.

I was talking to a farmer here in Sumter, Chris Sumter, last year and he was trying to find something to do with okra that kind of get too big, and stringy.

And farmers are so industrious about that sort of thing.

They have to be.

He found a woman that uses them in floral arrangements and he would sell her the large okra as and she would use them in floral arrangements.

I thought that was so cool.

Amanda> That is.

Drew> And, you know, I've seen those large okra actually used in, to make Christmas decorations like Santa Clauses and things like that.

Amanda> There you go.

Yeah.

Mary> You could put one in one of your hats.

Drew> There you go.

Rob> I was just about to say that.

(laughing) Amanda> Okay, Fun.

Fun.

Fun.

Thank you.

Thank you, Thank you.

Okay.

Anybody else needing a little help out there?

Katie> I actually think up next, Mary has a nice show and tell for us.

Amanda> Whoa!

Okay, Mary.

Mary> Yeah, I think we'll be showing some videos of last year when you guys visited me at my garden, I talked about my kiwi vine that I had.

It was about three years old.

It never flowered for me, never fruited.

But this year I was out looking in my garden.

I saw these beautiful white flowers for me.

And I was like, Oh my God, it's going to, it's flowering.

It's fruiting.

And then I've been checking.

Seeing if fruit has been forming.

This is a hardy kiwi.

So it's not the kiwi that you're used to finding in stores that Actinidia deliciosa.

Is that what that plant's name is?

This is a hardy kiwi.

So this hardy kiwi is Actinidia, I can't remember the species, but it's one of the hardy kiwis.

So it doesn't get as large.

They kind of call it a kiwi berry.

It's about the size of a large grape.

Amanda> Okay.

Mary> Usually- Amanda> -They're edible.

People like them.

Mary> You can just pop them in your mouth.

I know a lot of people use them to make wine with... the sugar content.

It's about similar to what a grape would be, so it makes excellent wine.

You can also.

Amanda> So you gave up caffeine, but not wine?

Mary> No, not that never, not that crazy.

You can also use them as a meat tenderizer.

It's got this compound in it that's really great at tenderizing meat.

So I'm excited to do some different experiments with my kiwifruit that comes in and I'll let you know how it goes.

Amanda> Okay, that's really fun.

Congratulations.

Mary> Thanks.

Katie> Since we're chatting about kiwi.

I'll go ahead and ask a question from my mom.

I bought her some kiwi plants a few years ago.

I bought her three and one died and she didn't know if it was a male or female.

Actually, then I got her two, one of each and she planted those and they're still not flowering.

Any advice for her?

Mary> Yeah.

So I should have mentioned that.

They are male and female.

I have a self pollinating variety.

So I don't, I, you can enhance the pollination percentage if you get another plant and that's what I could have done, but it's fertilizes itself as well.

Yeah.

So I mean mine's on for years now and it's finally getting to where it's flowering and doing nicely.

I know that you do want to prune it pretty aggressively.

You... it flowers on old years growth...So, you, once it finished flowering especially for male plants.

Once that's finished flowering you can cut that right off.

For female plants, of course you want to make sure that fruit has form first.

Once you've harvested all that fruit, you cut that fruiting branch off and then you let the new year's growth go into the next year.

And that's where your fruiting will come.

It does have a pH requirement.

I think it's in between like five and six.

So you want to make sure your soil is acidic.

So you can always do a soil test to figure out where your pH is at that.

I don't think it's a, I think it's a pretty heavy feeder.

So you could fertilize it and see what happens from there.

But usually it takes around four or so years until it's going to flower and fruit pretty aggressively.

Katie> Okay, awesome.

And make sure we mark which ones, male and female.

Yes.

And as an extension agent harp on her, test your soils.

(laughing) Amanda> Well, that was interesting to learn about that there's self pollinating and hardy ones.

Yeah.

Those little berries make maybe tea too.

Mary> Yeah.

You never know.

Amanda> Gracious goodness.

Okay, Katie Katie> We have a question from Jim in Columbia and he asks, "Can I use glyphosate for managing suckers on trees or what are my other options?

Amanda> Oh, okay.

Well, Rob, first of all, most people... think that glyphosate is roundup and for so that's a whole topic itself.

So can you help us with both of these ideas?

Rob> Absolutely, yeah.

Glyphosate is the active ingredient of the pesticide called Roundup, and that's the brand name.

And there are multiple brand names having glyphosate in them.

So it gets a little bit confusing, but if you look at the label, it will always tell you on the label of the pest of whichever pesticide it is, what the active ingredient and how much is in there.

Amanda> Are there now Roundup that have things added to them?

Rob> Yes, there are unfortunately, which can impact on what you can do with them and how they should how they can be used.

for, so for an example, a lot of products now have imazapyr in them, which is a lot more active as a residual herbicide.

So you have to be a lot more careful with what you do with it.

So it's really looking at the label and making sure you've got the active you want.

Glyphosate is a really good material, really helpful material in a lot of situations.

Removing for suckers is not one of those situations.

Glyphosate is really readily translocated, which means it's going to move from the application site into the root system and also be move systemically up into the leaves.

So what that's going to do is potentially kill out the tree if you apply it to the sucker because it's on the root system.

The best way to do with suckers is actually just to scrape down a little bit, find where the where the root shoots or sucker is coming up, cut it as close to the collar and the roots as you can to prevent it from coming back with a lion's mane type effect.

If you leave a little stump on there, you're going to get multiple shoots coming back out again.

But we do want to remove those suckers as cleanly as possible.

So sharp secateurs is always a good one.

If they've got, the suckers have gotten a little bit away from you, a sawzall can work.

Pruning saws, that sort of thing, that's going to be your best bet for de-suckering plants.

Amanda> But not glyphosate.

Rob> Do not use glyphosate on any tree or any tree that you want to keep.

Amanda> Thank you.

Thank you.

Drew, did you have something to add?

Drew> Naw.

I was agreeing I would, yeah.

Amanda> And so but reading the label because I've heard of some people who thought that they were using glyphosate or Roundup in a place where in the past they would have and because of these different formulations now of Roundup caused a lot of death in the yard.

Drew> Yeah, unfortunately, what's going on now is we're seeing a lot more different active ingredients, like Rob said, using under that brand name or under different brand names.

I know when Roundup first came out with their roundup for lawns, people were saying, Hey, I sprayed Roundup because I heard it's good for lawns.

And I was like, well, the very specific product of Roundup is labeled for lawns.

So, to Rob's point you should, you should always check the active ingredient statement on there.

because you can really mess up some things really quickly.

Amanda> Okay.

Rob> And if in doubt, as soon as you pop into your local extension office and we'll be happy to help you too.

Amanda> Or call HGIC.

Rob> Yes.

Call HGIC Drew> And there's a reminder to folks read the label and if again, like Rob said, if you don't understand the label, please call us.

We'll be more than happy to help you.

Amanda> Instead of killing your tree, especially, if it's an oak tree.

Like Doug Tallamy talked about.

Yeah.

Okay.

Well, there's a place in town that has.

I like to get fresh local vegetables, and they have those, Bradley's market.

I just have so much fun with them My good, good friends now.

But I was in there and they had something pretty cool.

They had a pink pineapple and this was not a local, (laughs) this is not South Carolina grown pineapple.

We don't grow these here, but this is and you can you can see it really is pink and then and it came with the top already cut and I don't know you know everything so I just think you do they said they immediately cut it.

It was a fruit.

It's a fruit.

And they replant the part that they've cut off to start new plants, which I though was pretty cool.

Rob> A lot our pineapple is produced a vegetatively.

So if you if you happen to purchase a pineapple and it's got the tops on it, if you cut those leaves off, you can get those to plant and regrow pineapple plants.

Amanda> Anyway.

So I thought we could taste it, if you would like to.

Katie> I have a funny story about replanting pineapple tops.

Amanda> What you say?

Katie> I replanted a pineapple top years ago and it takes a little while for them to root.

Rob> Yes.

Katie> My husband came out one day and picked it up off of the soil and said, What is this?

And I was like, You really want to be rude.

(laughing) Amanda> Are you just being messy?

Rob> The other thing that I would be remiss not to mention is if you do plant the pineapple top in the ground directly, you going to attract squirrels and anything else that's looking for a sweet treat.

Amanda> Well, and I think you have carry in the greenhouse in the winter but my friend Ann Nolte, you know Hank and Ann, who give me all my wonderful hat things, they had a pineapple that had a pineapple this big on it, and they had taken it to the greenhouse and they left it out there and they came out and it was gone.

And I bet you a raccoon came and got it because it was a big old pineapple.

Yeah, well tell me what you think, guys.

Katie> This is so good.

It's very sweet.

Amanda> Good it is.

Drew> It's sweeter than a normal pineapple.

Katie> It's a little less tart.

Amanda> Yeah.

A little less tart, a little sweeter.

And the color is from... lycopene.

Rob> I think is lycopene.

Amanda> Lycopene?

Yes.

Which...is why watermelon is so good for you.

Isn't that right?

Isn't that- Rob> -absolutely!

Amanda>a good thing for us to have?

Rob> and tomatoes as well.

It's that sort of red coloration that you find in all fruits.

Amanda> But it's something apparently that's good to have...anyway.

Mary> I like it.

It's good.

Rob> So I was thinking an upside down cake would look really cool with a big pineapple.

Mary> Yeah.

Yeah.

You have to make that for us next time.

Amanda> Well, you like to bake Rob> Maybe that's... maybe next time.

Drew> If you're looking for a different color pina colada, but that'll be kind of Rob> That would be.

That was work well as well.

Yeah, Drew.

(laughing) Amanda> There are all kinds of things you could do.

And wouldn't it be pretty if you were using it in something like that, you could have a piece of this on a long, long, long, you know, to, to make it even more decorative.

You know, it's just the world, you know, the world of fruits and vegetables is really cool.

Mary> Yeah.

Horticulture is a freak show.

That's why you...it's fun to see things like that.

That's what we this industry is kind of about something new and interesting.

Amanda> Anyway.

So you can see.

There you go.

And, and so, I mean it was kind of a gamble.

I didn't know, you know.

Yeah, But anyways, so, but I think it's a gamble that worked out.

Katie> Paid off.

Amanda> Okay.

Well, anyway, thank you all for all this wonderful, wonderful information.

We just thoroughly enjoyed having you here.

And I hope that you all will join us next week.

Night.

Night.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ Narrator> Making It Grow is brought to you in part by Certified South Carolina.

This cooperative effort among farmers, retailers and the South Carolina Department of Agriculture helps consumers identify foods and agricultural products that are grown, harvested or raised right here in the Palmetto State.

Mcleod Farms in McBee, South Carolina, family owned and operated since 1916.

This family farm offers seasonal produce, including over 40 varieties of peaches.

Wesley Commons, a full service continuing care retirement community located on more than 150 wooded acres in Greenwood, South Carolina.

Additional funding provided by the South Carolina Farm Bureau Federation and Farm Bureau Insurance and Boone Hall Farms.