Hi.

I'm Jeff Rea your host for Economic Outlook.

Thanks for joining us.

As we explore the people, the industries and the ideas shaping our region's economy.

On today's episode, we're tapping into a fast growing sector craft brewing.

From local taprooms to statewide distribution.

Breweries have become a key part of the region's small business scene and a major driver of tourism.

We'll hear from those at the heart of the business to learn what it takes to brew success.

Coming up next.

From locally sourced ingredients to community center taprooms, the craft brewing industry has become both a cultural and economic force in our region.

With the growing number of breweries popping up in northern Indiana and Southwest Michigan.

Brewing is more than a passion project.

It's a serious business.

Today, we're talking with those behind two of the area's standout breweries to get a behind the scenes look at what it takes to build and sustain a successful brewing business.

Joining me are Steve Zuckerman, the owner of the Danny Boy Draft Works.

Eli Cantu, the manager at Danny Boy Draft, Works, and Summer Lewis, the owner of the Iechyd Da Brewing Company in Elkhart.

So welcome, guys.

Thank you for being here.

Thank you.

I appreciate the chance to sort of highlight the industry and wanted to kind of, get into your brain a little bit and talk a little bit more about this industry, because I think it's got a lot of attention here in our area that maybe by way of starting, Steve, let me come your way.

Just a quick introduction of of you and Danny boy.

Sure.

Steve Zuckerman.

Yes.

Taken over.

Danny boy.

Draft works here at Notre Dame.

Really?

Only about four months ago.

So it's it's a it's brand new for me now.

We've been around the original, Danny boy, which is still where we brew all our beer.

And Carmel, started in 2013 and we opened in 2017.

I took over this location from my friend who started the business, needed a little injection of energy and, you know, excitement and so that's why he came to me.

And, we've just had great success for the last four months.

It's been really, really done.

Well, I love the business.

And, you know, just the community were able to, to create their with our craft beers and just with the environment we have there.

It's just been it's just been amazing.

So we're we're having a great time.

Well we look forward to hearing more about the business too.

Eli, just a quick introduction, you too and and sort of you and your role at Danny Boy.

So I'm the manager.

And as far as, my role as a whole, I would say I would consider myself a brew tender.

As far as, like, because I want to be, I want to say that I want to say it's the difference between a brewery and a bar.

People go to the drink at a bar, but to a brewery, they go and taste a different things.

I like that, and some of those come your way.

So Iechyd Da, talk to us a little bit about Iechyd Da and your role there.

Sure.

My husband and I started yaki about 13 years ago.

We're coming up on our 13th anniversary, and we we just basically set out to be the neighborhood bar that makes our own beer and and food from scratch.

And we've pretty much become that.

People have been coming to us for over a decade, so it's great.

So let's talk for a second.

First, just because I'm curious, I've always wanted to ask.

And you're here.

What's where's the name come from?

My husband's family came over from Wales in 1635.

So the Welsh heritage is always been part of that.

So Iechyd Da is cheers and Welsh.

Okay, great.

Yeah.

Good, good.

talk about 13 years ago and kind of what you're doing and sort of what inspired you to sort of get into the what were you doing something in brewing?

Was this a totally new thing?

No.

My husband.

Yeah.

My husband was a home brewer.

He needed a change.

This was after, you know, this is 2011, 2012.

And we were started.

We opened in 2012.

We started the process in 2011 after all the 2008 recession business.

And it was like, let's change it up.

And he's like, I think I want to brew.

We went out to Colorado, did a little internship out there and came home, you know, as faces all lit up.

And he's like, I love it.

I said, well, you're going to need a partner.

So we went all in and we've been just hanging ever since.

We and truly the mom and pop brewery on Main Street.

Great and see you on a come your way.

So again, you're sort of relatively new to this, but but talk about your path sort of getting to where you are today.

it's funny.

And I will tell you a little bit of the history of Danny Boy as well.

Because like I mentioned, I did take it over from a friend.

My path has been completely out of left field, if you want to say, say that I've been in the film and video production business for decades.

And I'm from Indianapolis, but.

And spent many years in Los Angeles as well.

But I also started in the, in the marketing business.

That's where my father began and my friendship with our founder, Kevin Paul is what sort of develop this?

My father also was a franchise, pizza restaurant owner for years.

I did help him with marketing there and operations on a few of his locations.

So just in speaking with Kevin coming, I came back to Indianapolis after many years of just being in Los Angeles.

To be closer to home for my parents, for my family, and, and, you know, building relationship with Kevin.

He mentioned the location here at Notre Dame.

He has the where we brew all our beer in Carmel.

And he also has a number of other bars, there.

And he mentioned to me that, you know, we've got this location in Notre Dame and really could use some help.

It's kind of just been on autopilot, and I don't really have the time to get down there and manage and deal with it on a day to day.

Would you like to take a crack at it?

And I said, sure, why not?

So really, I just drew from my marketing experience and and from my franchise pizza experience and, you know, beer and alcohol is new to me, but, I know how to build a community and to build a crowd and to bring people in.

And it's been real exciting doing that.

So, you know, can I sit with you for a second, Steve, and give us a little bit more of the that Danny Boy history?

Kevin.

And they're sort of they're seeing this emerging industry.

They have this passion to get something lunch.

Help us understand.

I'll do my best.

Because, you know, like I said, I'm still learning.

But, Kevin, his father was a homebrewer, like you mentioned, when he was being raised, he was raised in, Detroit in the Corktown, neighborhood.

So a predominantly Irish, you know, upbringing.

And he was just, you know, inspired by the community, inspired by the the breweries and the and the craft beers around him and decided to start embarking on this journey.

He really started with, that was in 2008.

And then in 2000.

Yes, in 2008, he established, location in Carmel.

It's called the Brockway Pub.

Opened that up.

Danny boy, came soon after as he wanted to start getting into, you know, developing and creating his own beers.

He got with his brewmaster friend.

And they started up 2013 and, you know, that's that's kind of kind of where it all began.

Just a passion for the for the, the, the beer and for the community that it brought with it.

Great.

Eli, let me come your way.

So, so hope our viewers one make sure they understand where where this is and then paint a picture a little bit of sort of what people will see or experience when they come in the doors at Danny Boy.

So every brewery I would say is, is distinctive to the next.

Ours happened to be right next to campus.

So depending on the time, you may you might see, a student crowd or if it's in the early hours, you know, we've had some families come in, and so you get that vibe.

I will just go back to that.

The way I see a brewery, as far as, going comparison to a bar is because, you know, we have local, locally made brews made by someone local, you know, and then you get to enjoy the taste of that area.

Whereas in a bar you would get, you know, these big company names that are from somewhere else.

And you really, you know, that what it tastes like, you know, what you're going there for.

But in our brewery, you would you're going to find people that, go there to taste different ones and they're, they're not just there to drink.

They're there to have a full on pleasure of of taste.

Yeah.

No, I appreciate that helping to distinguish that.

Let's go.

Let's move to Iechyd Da for, for a second and and first like, I think you were on the front edge of sort of the revitalization of, of downtown Elkhart.

Right.

So a lot's happened since you've made your original investment.

Talk about the the decision to to open up, you know, something there and kind of the, the progress has been made in the neighborhood around you and all of the all of the experts said that we should not open in Elkhart.

They weren't they pushed us very hard to Goshen That's not our scene.

We live in Elkhart.

We were Elkhart kids.

The Lerner was being revitalized at the time.

And we're like, you know, people are investing in downtown and we're like, now's the time to get in.

Because by the time people really get this area built up and developers come in and now you see the whole Jackson corridor, they said eventually you could see the vision.

Eventually we're going to be the old comfortable shoe that have been people have been coming to for years.

And that's really where we're at now.

So it's kind of fun with all of the that whole Jackson corridor and all the apartments going in.

There's a whole new group of people that are getting to come downtown and explore, and now they're coming to us and they're having to, you know, find a table among people who've been there for a decade and the stories and the friendships that are made.

It's it's really it's really an interesting place to be right now.

Yeah.

It's I think it's it's been very exciting to watch that.

We've featured on the show several times, a number of those projects that are diving, but obviously your early investment has helped be a, like a key catalyst I've done.

Let's talk for for a second.

I'm not even sure who exactly to throw to, but all of us, like, let's talk, just industry as a whole.

Like, it felt like there was this time when, there were kind of, craft breweries, you know, kind of popping up everywhere and such.

And it because it was an important driver of economy and tourism and some of that.

So, so what's the what's the state of the industry now?

Is this still, a popular thing for communities or a key catalyst for, I think it is.

I think I think that, it still is.

It's definitely sort of having a deflation mode.

A lot of the breweries that maybe weren't so wholeheartedly into it or were doing it as a sideline are starting to weed themselves out of the market, which is fine.

I think we're in a different situation.

I'm it's it's a weird spot because we're so close to Michigan that that dynamic is changing.

People are going to dispensaries as opposed to breweries.

But people are still doing the brewery hopping and the brewery tours.

On Saturdays we get groups and doing flights.

So that's still all happening.

And it just is a matter of whether or not we've built a good enough brand and established good enough beer and food that word of mouth has come, come around so that people still come as new newcomers.

Of our 16, we have 16 taps.

Ten of them are dedicated to our beers that we brew, and those are always changing out because we have seasonal brews.

Honor.

But, you know, we're constantly trying new things and new flavors and having tastings.

And, you know, it's funny because some of our clientele, like I mentioned, I don't know if we spoke about this yet, but, a lot of college level college students and, in many ways, for a lot of them, it's an introduction to it.

They're not used to that.

They'll come in and they'll want to order.

They'll just order whatever Busch Light or something, you know, and then they'll discover they won't realize, well, what's that?

Oh, that's our training day.

That's our IPA.

Oh my gosh.

And next thing you know, they're hooked and they're fans.

And I can tell they're going to stay craft beer fans forever because because that's what's selling now.

That's what they become attracted to.

And I think what keeps people, is being consistently changing.

You know, me personally, I when I started drinking wine, I started with my dry red, my nose, and now I'm into ice wines.

Sweet.

So as my palate changes, others may as well.

So from a brewmaster point of view and not that I am one, but I mean from I respect their craft because we're literally presenting an artists showcase, something that they're really prepared for, and they're putting it out for us to taste so that, to itself should be appreciated.

But when you constantly change it, I think that's what, keeps you in the business.

Great.

Guys, we're gonna take a quick break here in the studio.

I'm going out in the field.

George Lepeniotis out in the field.

George, let me toss it to you.

I am downtown Kalamazoo, Michigan in the northern parts of our viewing area.

I am joined today by Aaron Ross.

Aaron, thanks for being with us.

Yeah appreciate it.

Thanks for coming down, Aaron, you have a very unique title for a college professor.

You may be the first college professor I've ever met who is an instructor of brewing beer.

That's right.

I'm not sure that any two things go more hand in hand than beer in college.

So tell me, how did you get started in this?

So I got started.

Come from a family of teachers, so just felt right.

I went to Grand Valley for my undergraduate.

Got my cut my teeth brewing up in Grand Rapids at the Mitten Brewing Company.

Great pizza, great beer, great people.

And after hanging around there for a couple of years and wearing a number of different hats and roles, I found a spot down here in Kalamazoo.

And I haven't look back.

Now, this program is about ten years old.

Ten years?

Yeah.

And if I'm correct, I don't want to butcher the title, but it is sustainable.

Brewer.

Correct?

Yep.

So tell us about the sustainable part before we get to the good part of the Brewers.

Yeah, we try to hit all the three different pillars of sustainability.

So we want to make sure we're sending students out that recognize the brewing is inherently a very wasteful practice.

And so practice around the brewhouse, the cellar resource management effluent, water supply chain, all of those economic but also environmental aspects.

But also we're here for social change.

You know, beer has been a great catalyst for social change for a long time, All right.

Very good.

Well, it's a good place to start if that's your goal.

Using beer.

So tell us a little bit about the program.

You have two different, two different paths that a student can take in this program.

Correct.

We have a certificate of achievement, CoA 18 credits, and it's going to be mostly around advanced homebrewing into system supply management into industry hospitality, taproom management.

And then going to a little bit of the fermentation science.

The biochemistry side of it, are more popular and probably bread and butter.

Part of the degree pathway is our certificate of completion 30 credits, 15 lecture 15 lab.

It is actually accessible all online at this point we are launching a credit for prior learning portion of the certificate.

So people with industry experience can actually come in and we'll award them credit for experience in the industry.

So you're part of the broader culinary school, correct?

Our our focus today is about that workforce development in what we call the agritourism industry or the brewing industry.

We've got a couple of brewers in the studio.

But when we think about training a workforce for a specific industry like brewery, this is a fairly unique program in the United States, is it is for a good portion of the history of the U.S, there haven't been options for brewing education.

It's been very much an apprenticeship mentor, sort of trade skill with the economic boon that was the craft brewing kind of rise over early 2000 to 20 tens.

There was a need for a trained workforce.

A lot of the industry came out of homebrewing and found their way into professional brewing.

finally, with a couple, we just got about a minute left.

Would you kind of just run us?

Do.

I mean, we've talked about how our viewing area is more in the southwest corner of the state, but really, you supply graduates ready to work to areas across the state of Michigan, across the United States, and I think international international.

Yeah, we had a student come over from Japan to take the program, and he's since has returned to Japan, opened his brewery with success.

But we try to we try to send our students that are ready for any role in the industry, whether it's front of the house, whether it's production, whether it is working in a laboratory supply chain, marketing.

We try to send our students well-rounded and be able to fill any sort of role in the industry.

Aaron, thank you very much.

I appreciate you having us here today.

Yeah.

Appreciate the explanation.

It's been, very enlightening.

And I think when we get off camera here, you're going to give us a sample or two.

Yeah, we might say so.

All right.

Thanks.

A thanks to you for listening in.

This is just another example of how a community goes broad to help fulfill each other's needs and make sure that there are opportunities here that you might not get anywhere else in the culture.

George thank you.

Appreciate another great story back in the studio guys.

Thank you for, continuing this.

So Steve Zuckerman from Danny Boy and Eli Cantu from Danny Boy and Summer Lewis from Iechyd Da Just thank you for sticking around and appreciate the chance to get to know your business better.

Somewhere I want to come your way.

Just just thinking about, the 13 years.

So.

So obviously you've had to build a client base and keep a client base and keep new and continue to innovate.

Talk about just sort of the the ways that you continue to innovate or introduce things to make sure you're evolving to attract audience.

You know, I think a lot of what we personally do is just based on our very immediate community and the way we treat people when they come in.

So we just build clientele through word of mouth.

And that's it's as simple as that.

It's the oldest.

Keep it simple.

Do it well, and then like, things like, later this fall, we're going to work with the visitors bureau in Elkhart County, and several of the Elkhart breweries are getting together and doing a well crafted event.

So we're all making a different beer, and we do things seasonally like that anyway, so we're just getting all together to be able to do that, They want those seasonal things.

They want what's new.

Yeah.

Steve, some of the question come your way to talk about this Danny boy and the things that as you're sort of new, but being innovative and trying to help attract, not only students community talk about just sort of the things you're doing to try to help introduce people to craft, for sure.

I mean, we're we're starting to do different themed nights, each day of the week, in an effort to, you know, let people know not just about our beer, but about our food.

We have an amazing menu.

Much better than your quote unquote, bar food.

You know, I mean, every time somebody eats our food, they're blown away.

They can't believe how good it is.

And our our chefs have been with us since we opened, since the doors opened.

So the job is to, for us is to make sure we let the broader community know, throughout South Bend, Mishawaka, Granger, let them be aware of our of our offerings, let them know that we also deliver.

And so it's it's a little bit of, you know, it feels like we're almost introducing ourselves even though we've been there.

I don't think anybody with my background has been there before.

And so I'm trying to tap into that to make sure people know, that we're there.

And also just, just briefly, you know, when I was in the franchise pizza business with my father, one of the things he instilled in me and one of the things we did, even though we were a franchise, if you ran it like a mom and pop, meaning we supported the community, we would have fundraisers constantly.

We would do, work with nonprofits and individuals in need in our communities.

And that's something that I really want to start doing, through Danny Boy as well.

I want to I want to start letting the communities know that we care about them.

I want to start giving back, to to various causes throughout the community.

But again, I'm trying to get my arms around it.

But you you mentioned I've been here for months.

Really?

Only three actively.

And I'm learning the community.

I'm learning South Bend, Mishawaka, Granger.

I, I don't know these, these areas that well, so it's it's a process.

It's a process, but it's it's an exciting one.

Do you have a favorite thing on the menu?

Our wings are amazing okay.

I mean we've got, I think 15 different flavored wings.

Our pizza's amazing.

I know you make great pizza too, but you're in Elkhart, so we're not going to be all right.

Yes, exactly.

So we're.

But our pizza's amazing.

I mean, really our our menu.

It's it's I was blown away when I first when Kevin brought me down to check the business out.

And I sat down and started everything on the menu is just absolutely amazing.

It's just really shocking.

So some of you add to this just just food and how important food and the quality of food is to sort of the overall experience.

When we opened, we thought it was going to be like 25% food.

Food was going to be the throw away, and it's definitely a 5050, if not more.

People come in for the food.

We make everything from scratch in-house.

So our dough, our sauces, all of our salad dressings, we keep our menu small and we flip it every month.

So everything changes every month.

And so people get really excited about it.

It's like what's on next month?

They're calling and asking you and it's it's fun.

And but it's that whole keep it simple, do it well.

And we try to I mean, we made 17,000 pounds of pizza dough last year just.

Yeah.

It's like so yeah.

So people are eating pizza 11 to come your way.

So so check this just about you know folks are watching.

Yeah.

They don't know about experiencing this.

You kind of experience this you know give sort of insight from your perspective.

Well the thing I like the most is like when we're talking, the thing with like, theme nights, things like trivia night and single and things not to promote that, but the thing that I like about things like those in the bar, it kind of creates a community hub, if you will, because now you have families coming in, having this experience there.

And I think that's what brewers are all about, as comparison to bars.

I think that's one of the things that I love about it.

I think that's the, thing that differentiates us.

And just going back to just the experience of of drinking different things.

Me personally, all through my 20s, I drank Budweiser and ate a burger everywhere I went.

And I was content.

I was comfortable with that.

But then I had my crossover beers and my blue moons and this and and I just kind of crossed me over to, to taste different things.

And in doing so, I also developed my, my food taste.

And so I wasn't only restricting myself to, to the same beer, but I was facing different beers and also different foods.

So I opened up my palate a little bit and I think, I don't know.

I think that's one of the reasons why I'm still in this heart, trying to find the perfect one, trying to find something different.

Something, something tastier.

I love people with that curiosity.

My favorite thing to do is ask people, do you want to play it safe, or do you want to walk on the wild side?

Well, we're doing tastings and they're like, if they if they give me some leeway, we have some fun with it.

And that's the thing with with breweries, the flights, the options of having flights for ounces, you know, and you don't get to overwhelm yourself with, with being drunk, but you get to taste a little bit of everything.

And I think that's one thing that we offer that other stuff.

I like this kind of constant kind of not experimenting, but sort of trying some new things.

So like in your in the 13 years, is are there some things that you, you had from the beginning and you keep because they're staples.

It is it and then others that you kind of rotate in and out or we it's funny because we have our local blond, which it's called local because we knew that it was a Bud Miller Coors Town and that craft beer, you had to drive 45 minutes to get to a brewery before bare hands opened Six months before we did.

So, we made local blond for that reason.

And it's still a staple.

We have to have it on.

If it's not, people scream.

And the other one is our IPA.

People love hops, so those two are kind of our mainstays.

And then we have our seasonal breakfast cookies in the winter.

And, you know, people are sad when it goes in March, but we work them into something else.

Our church, our church is popular in the winter, like like stouts and porters.

Good for the winter.

Popular, IPAs wise, I think our, training day and, Cinderella, Cinderella man are just like at the top.

Favorite lot of boxing theme.

Yeah, no, I appreciate hearing about this.

So it seems we're getting it our last couple of minutes here.

So so again, you're on him kind of right across from campus in the overlook.

So definitely students.

But but you also it's more than just students give a little plug to the, community.

Why of why and when they should come visit you.

Sure.

And, you know, since I took over the.

I've.

I've expanded our hours a bit for the later nights, but we still open at 4:00.

That may change soon.

It just depends on how things work out.

I'd like to be open earlier, but even even at four between the hours of four and let's say maybe eight, and really every day of the week, we're, we're catering to an older crowd.

It's not just the students are in class.

They're in school.

They're not.

They're not during the day, we don't get a lot of students, actually.

Just kind of like the late night thing.

So we still get people coming.

We have people bring their kids.

We've got games for the kids.

I mean, we're family friendly.

We're we're 18 plus.

I wouldn't bring them on a Friday night after 10:00.

Yeah, but but, you know, during the day, we're a chill, relaxed vibe type of place.

So we're starting to experiment with live music as well and open mic nights just to go back to that, which makes it, you know, fun for everybody.

And, Yeah.

Great.

Okay.

In our last 30s remind folks where they find Iechyd Da.

We are on North Main Street in Elkhart, just north of downtown.

And I will put this out there.

We are definitely over 21.

So.

So yeah, our, our our vibe is an over 21 adult crowd.

And, and we're kind of the earlier bar great with two outstanding businesses.

Thank you for being with us today to talk a little bit more about, encourage our viewers to go and visit, and I'll try to stop by and say hello.

So that's it for today's episode.

A big thank you to our guests for sharing their insights and experience.

If you're interested in entrepreneurship, hospitality, or just love a good brew, there's a lot to take away from today's conversation.

Thanks for watching our night or listening to our podcast.

You can find Economic outlook@knit.org on YouTube or on most major podcast platforms like us on Facebook.

Follow us on Twitter.

I'm Jeff Rea I'll see you next time.

This WNIT local production has been made possible in part by viewers like you.

Thank you.