Hi, I'm Jeff Rea your host for Economic Outlook.

Thanks for joining us each week as we discuss the region's most important economic development initiatives with a panel of experts.

Our region is blessed with a public radio station and a public television station to provide educational, cultural and entertainment based programing to create a more informed public.

Today, we'll hear more about each of those entities as we look at the state of public media.

Across the country, 1190 public radio stations and 356 public television stations provide communities with programing aimed at informing and educating the population they serve.

For more than 50 years WVPE 88.1 Public Radio and PBS Michiana WNIT have been serving Southwest Michigan and Northern Indiana.

Today, we're taking a closer look at their important work and the current state of public meeting media.

Joining me for that conversation are Amanda Miller-Kelly, the president and general manager of Wnit, PBS Michiana, and Anthony Hunt, the chair of IPBS and the station manager at WVPE Public Radio.

Thank you guys.

Appreciate you being here.

Thank you for coming.

So a big fan of public television and public radio.

And so I thought this would be a terrific conversation just to talk about a little bit about the state of those.

And so thank you both for being here today.

Amanda, come your way.

I think we're obviously watching on on PBS Michigan night.

But for those who aren't familiar, just give us a little high level overview of the station.

Sure.

So, I'm been president and general manager since January 1st, so still pretty new in this role, but PBS Michigan has been in the community for 51 years on the air.

We cover, counties in southwestern Michigan and northern Indiana, and we air six weekly television shows.

We have 3 to 4 local documentaries a year in addition to all your favorite national shows.

And, of course, PBS kids appreciate that.

Anthony, come your way.

So my question if people are unfamiliar with the VPI, tell us a little about it.

Well, we started in 1972, when they started new school, the Elkhart Area Career Center.

The idea was that you were going to have audio video production.

Public TV actually started there, too.

And, so you were initially training kids to be, you know, either camera operators or deejays, and it evolved.

The programing changed eventually they decided to get more serious about the format went to jazz, which denoted what they do in Elkhart at the time, right as, the band capital of the world manufacturing and then went on into, at some point, 1991 became this area's NPR affiliate, National Public Radio.

And so we've then been primarily the news carrier, but we still have a number of musical shows that we still carry, ranging from, you know, jazz and then, to, well, one host who's been doing a show for over 40 years, so blues programing and a couple of gentlemen who are, 30 years plus, doing co-hosting a folk show.

And so, you know, a variety of different things for many people come your way.

So you've been at, a unit for, for a little while before your tell us what it was that excited you about an opportunity working in public television?

I think part of it is I grew up watching not only public television.

I grew up watching me when I am from South Bend originally, and the idea of being a part of my childhood.

Right, Mister Rogers, Sesame Street now we think about things like Daniel Tiger and Don Quixote and and then to see the creativity behind it and this really interesting local focus, when I tell stories that nobody else tells, we tell stories of the history of the area.

We tell stories about the people who shaped the area.

And so to be able to be a part of what I think is some of the most important community storytelling around, in addition to the best kids programing around.

That's just that's a recipe that I wanted to be part of and similar.

So what was it that excited you about a career in public radio?

Well, I kind of fell into it in that, I had I'd become, a DJ myself on the weekends, because.

Yeah, I was exactly.

I was asked if I would participate in my colleges.

They were putting together a slide show at the time.

So that tells you it was a ways back.

And so I was one of the voices, and, and I was the person who read the line and did it correctly the first time without, an error.

And they said you could be, you know, you could maybe be our deejay.

So they hired me, and that was, how that began.

And then my mom actually loved classical music, and they carried it on the public radio station in Boise, Idaho, and they had something called BYOB be your own broadcaster.

And if you paid a certain amount, you could go in and host a show.

So I did, and the same thing happened.

I hosted a classical music show.

They said, gosh, you have a lovely voice.

Why don't you, you know, consider becoming a volunteer.

So I did, and that's turned into a 35 year career now, at six different stations around the country.

And, 18 of them here have been at.

Great.

We're glad to have you here.

You both are doing tremendous work here.

Amanda, talk a little bit about, just PBS as a whole, kind of the the state of public, television.

Give us an overview of kind of what's happening in the, in the, in the public television space, really across the country.

Sure.

So I think when people think of PBS, there's there's a couple pillars that we think about when we think about those national shows that people love the nature's the Nova's the masterpiece, you know, your great British shows.

So that's that's one piece of it.

And then we think about our kids, because I think everyone grew up either sitting on their grandparents lap watching or holding a kid watching Sesame Street or, you know, Carl, the collector.

And then there's the local piece of it.

And those are the stories that we tell of our own communities.

And so right now, what's happening nationally is we're all as stations, very proud of all three of these pillars.

And I think a lot of us are looking for ways to take some of that local storytelling and make it content on platforms more than just television, because people who watch TV over the air, we love them, keep watching.

But people are starting to watch other ways, too.

They're watching over Roku and Apple TV, or they're watching through YouTube TV.

And so we're trying to find more ways to capture viewers where they are.

And PBS has some great apps, and they have a great way to watch a lot of that national programing.

And then the local programing we're trying to make sure is getting into people's hands as well.

So there's the content side of it, and then there is just always the funding side of it.

PBS is, funded partially through federal grants.

Our station is between 20 and 25% federally funded.

And so every year when it's up in front of the budget committee, we always wonder what's going to happen.

And so that's a conversation that's happening pretty heavily right now as well.

Anything to talk about the public radio side.

We mentioned more than a thousand public radio stations across the country.

What's happening in the public radio space across the country?

Well, back in Washington, it's under review in terms of are we going to continue what we're doing with public broadcasting, as they're looking at all kinds of federally funded programs?

And so that's I think what led to the genesis of having this conversation is, you know, what is the value, the value proposition.

And at the time, you're thinking back to, I mean, there was public broadcasting and public radio before there was officially public broadcasting.

When Lyndon Johnson signed the act in 1967, saying we should have it.

And at the time, they thought that it would be best if you carved it up and say the federal government paid half of all the expenses.

Well, that's never happened.

You know, in our case, we're down to, like, maybe 10% of our funding is federally funded.

And you'll get into, I'm sure, a little bit more a state level of funding.

About 5% of our funding comes from the state.

And so that's 85% of the support that we need to run is coming from the community.

And that's essentially what they planned when they set that up, were not were designed to provide good information to help educate, entertain and inspire, which we have is our tagline.

I mean, I cover covers, I think a lot and and to bring in a public TV, you left out one show that we love at our house, which was this old house.

So good you always could say it doesn't look good, Norm.

You know, it's not about as a way to keep that going, but, you know, the kinds of programing that you're always learning something, even if you're being entertained.

And, you know, you talked about, the kids programing, which is just absolutely stellar.

I mean, the the characteristic there is, you know, children that watch public television are, guaranteed if they continue to watch it, you know, to read, raise their reading grade level.

I mean, just just out of the gate because it's designed specifically to do that.

So what's your objective?

What are you doing?

Public broadcasting is there to be not everything else that everyone's trying to be commercially.

It's trying to help make us better, to expose us to things new ideas, new performances, new, scientific breakthroughs and that's something that I think gets lost if you're trying to just say, gosh, this is too expensive, we can't afford this, or we can't do these other things, because then the question is, you know, what are we not hearing about?

What are the things that are missing?

And I think public broadcasting, again, it's always kind of, a challenge to, to make, to meet all the larger objectives are shooting for.

But I think we, by and large, done a great job of doing that.

Yeah.

I, I want to talk a little bit, Anthony mentioned the kind of kids program you touched on this growing up as a kid watching this.

Me too.

I mean, that grew up in this area, watched it as a kid.

It seems like new technologies open up a lot more opportunities for you to share that, focus on that for a few minutes.

Just talking about the The Educational kid program that you do, why what you're doing and why you do it.

So PBS kids, both nationally and locally, is such a huge part of the spirit of who PBS Michigan it is.

PBS kids programing is educator created.

It's educator vetted, it's curriculum based.

So everything is of a really high quality.

You know, if your kid is watching PBS kids, they're watching a show that is helping them with Stem or literacy or social emotional learning.

There's a purpose to it.

And then when we look at all the new technologies that that are available, PBS kids leaned in and said, okay, how about how about some games or how about some other ways that kids can learn?

That's more hands on.

So there's the PBS kids app, and there's video and there's games.

There's PBS Learning Media, which is available more than 100,000 pieces of educator created material that's available for free to anybody.

And so what we do here locally is not only do we air the shows, and not only do we promote what PBS kids app offers, we also have an educational engagement liaison who goes out in the community and gets these these these pieces, these materials in the hands of educators, in the hands of parents and in the hands of kids.

And so last year alone, we went out and we had hands on interactions with 17,000 children in the community.

We had information about PBS Learning media in backpacks that were going out to school, kids.

We had, events where we brought out Daniel Tiger or Super Y, and kids got to, color and and get the literacy books that we have.

So we really see it as more than just your your kid is sitting and watching the show.

That's great.

And there have been 20 year studies out of northwestern that show that if your kid is watching PBS kids, they are more, they have better literacy skills, they are better ready for school.

But it's not just that they're also then getting more and they're getting more hands on.

And it's inspiring and learning, starting at a really young age through more than just watching TV, but through hands on activities, you know, if we have time, well, if we have time, I can, you know, I can sing one of the Mister Rogers I we should, but I think that we haven't had singing on the show before.

We probably shouldn't.

Now's the time to start, I think.

Here's your.

You've got the voice for it.

Of course.

Yeah.

So.

So let's stay in the, I would call it the education space.

And it's a little bit different of an education that you provide.

But but we talked about you know, the programing you're offering is, is helping to educate and inform inspire the public here to talk about that role a little bit more and some of the things that you're doing to help make sure that that our community is informed.

Well, I mean, we so in general, National Public Radio is providing news of the day.

They try to offer it in even handed way.

I hate to again dip back a little bit into history that at one point there was a thing called the Fairness Doctrine where you tried to keep everything sort of on an even keel because you recognize the two sides.

And that is something that even though the rule itself doesn't exist, there's a component of that that Public Broadcasting tries to bring in looking at what's going on.

And so, I always feel like as we head towards elections, I get, you know, complaints of both sides feeling like, okay, we're probably hitting about the middle where we need to be.

But beyond that, this some of the science programs we do have Science Friday, big picture science.

You know, you have sort of thought pieces of This American Life.

You have the kinds of shows and, and we have had to begun dealing a lot more because of podcasting.

But we are literally built perfectly for people to just sort of download and listen.

But then again, if it's an exposure that becomes to me, kind of the point is that you're getting more people to sort of listen to or think through or learn about and gain some kind of insights in what it is that they're getting from us.

And, you know, we, we have obviously the national, the international news.

We even carry the BBC, we carry the CBC.

We started carrying actually CBC programing because one of the shows that we carry, the, Terry Gross Fresh Air with Terry Gross is from Philadelphia, but the show Q comes from the CBC in Toronto.

And I said, well, as the crow flies, it's faster to get to Toronto than it is to get to Philadelphia.

So we should be carrying some of that to and anyway, some fabulous programing there.

Many good programs that I think, you know, help just bring somebody insights.

And it is usually also something that is more foreground listening.

So you need to be I mean, one thing that you don't have from television, do more in radio is that you can kind of be doing something else.

And so it does have to be something that you don't necessarily have to be thinking too deeply, because then you have to listen to what they're actually talking about.

But yeah, I mean, it is, I think a good program, service that we provide and we do periodically check up with our audience, our members, to say, are we doing this right?

Do you want that?

And that's actually on our that's on our list for later this year.

But anyway, I want to kind of stick with this a little bit and talk to both of you a little bit about the I would just call it maybe content and competition a little bit.

I think back when I was a kid and watching PBS, there were five options, right?

There were three network stations, maybe another station, plus PBS.

And I had one of those five similar on the radio side that there were there were a couple of local options, but but now, kind of competitions everywhere you touched on like podcast and, and, I'm listening to the book, you know, sometimes instead of a radio.

Radio has changed significantly, over the years as, as has television and with streaming and all that.

So, so, so talk a little bit about just this, this competition for content and how you, how you compete with some, some really deep pocket, you know, kind of organizations who are also trying to build a lot of content.

So, in terms of the kids programing, in this area, PBS kids are 34, three is the most watched children's programing station, by far.

The next highest is Nickelodeon, and we have almost doubled the numbers.

So I think that there's a there's a trust behind the PBS brand, particularly when people are thinking, what do I want my kids to watch?

So there's that.

But then, you know, sort of goes back to what I was saying about content existing where people are because it is really difficult.

You can trust the brand and you can no masterpiece or you can know This old house.

But if we're not where you are, if we're not where you're watching television, that doesn't matter, because you're probably not going to go seek us out.

So it has been a very interesting, path for us to try to go down.

And to be frank, we're still figuring it out.

Where we have figured it out, the best is certainly with with PBS kids.

And part of that is because kids will watch the same episode of something over and over and over.

So you get five episodes on the PBS kids app, and they're happy for a month.

You know, adults, a little different, adults a little little.

Except for economic outlook.

Viewers will watch this over and over again.

Well, that's what I like to say, but that's about the quality.

Yes.

You know, obviously I'm sorry.

So I think that, we're still figuring it out.

But I do think that the more we move towards making ourselves available to where people are, we're never going to have the pockets to create a show.

Like, like, certainly not locally.

If if Netflix has a new show or PBS Michiana has a new show, I can promise you which one costs more money.

And has more marketing budget.

But it's just about the trust.

It's about people knowing that when they watch something that is on PBS Michiana, when they turn on it, whether that's on an app or on, over the air, that it's going to be high quality, it's going to be something that they want to watch.

We have found nationally, that this is also true.

And, a great study came out earlier this year from the Indiana Broadcasters Association that basically showed that, people tend to trust their local producers of content much more so than national, on any stage.

And so, you know, the local stations, as long as you can stay local and not get too tied up into, you know, sort of repeat or just kind of, you know, found in content.

So the more we're able to so we have tried to invest and our intending to increase investing, in developing more local content, local and regional content, which would be statewide.

I mean, that's why you mentioned, so I'm chair of the Indiana Public Broadcasting stations.

Which is the consortium then of the public radio and public TV stations in Indiana.

And it has received a fair bit of support over the years from the legislature, including back in the day, right when public television needed to switch from analog to digital.

The state helped fund that conversion, and, but otherwise it might not have happened.

And they didn't, you know, state legislators didn't want the state to be left behind.

So they helped make that happen.

And we then have continued to provide good support.

And so they've they've had years of continuing to do that.

So, I think it's a great balance to have both a federal input of some form, state funding of some form and then a heavy investment in the local, community and both both businesses and, local supporters for us.

You too.

Right.

So, we've not done as much with grants, but we're getting there.

Well, it's why we exist.

Anthony's point is, we exist because we want to provide the national information that is so important and address the national interest that are so important.

But we want to bring a local perspective to that, because if there isn't the local perspective, if we're not telling those local stories, there's there's nothing that makes the community make this makes this a community investment in a community project.

And I think that that's a huge part of who we are.

As public broadcast is a community project.

We want community input.

We want to tell the community's stories, and we want even those big national issues.

And this is what you do on this show to Jeff, as you take these big national issues and you bring them to a local perspective, and that's important.

It's important that our local perspectives are reflected in the airwaves.

I do love it.

Like I think, ripe for the opportunity right now I think is is broadcast television, changes how they operate is radio stations are kind of, not locally owned and such this, this filling, this gap in particular from the local cycle of even though Anthony on your side like the you've got a news team there that's that's very doing a very good job of like covering local events as well too, in addition to all the stuff that you do on the national side.

So I think there's a great opportunity for that.

And we do have, again, the regional component.

So part of I, PBS, we also have ten different reporters that are doing, statewide service all the time.

And so then that's depending on, you know, where the story comes from, how you want to carry it, where it's, you know, is is this a viable story for just Indianapolis or, you know, it's just Bloomington, right.

So the does it have the impact that you need to menu you and that's that's then the decision that the news team whether they put that on the air or not.

But, but you can see all of that or all the stories that are being produced consistently on our website, under the Indiana tab.

And then because obviously we're really close to Michigan, we also tie into, the, the general statewide news content that they're producing for their group of Michigan, Michigan stations.

And so we have that on a separate tab to all the regular statewide stories that are available for anyone to look at at any time.

Let's as we get into our last few minutes or so, I want to make sure we especially this funding piece, because this is this is a critical piece, as you mentioned this, it's almost this patchwork quilt of funds that come together to sort of help the fund this operation.

So so let's dive a little bit more into that in in sort of ways even that our viewers or others can help, make sure that you're able to continue offering that programing.

Amanda will come your way first.

Well, viewers like you, you know, we you say this, you hear it it before so many of our programs, these programs are made possible by viewers like you.

Like like Anthony, we have the federal split.

Then we have, we have state funding and the rest of it, more than 70% is all from the community.

We are we don't exist without community support because we're we're we're a community investment.

We need people to say, I support this kind of programing.

I believe that this kind of programing is important for me, for my family, for my neighbors.

And within this 11 county stretch that we cover, we want to be telling your stories.

And we can only do that if we can send the journalists out to out to record it.

And if we can bring out the cameras.

We've been in the middle of a great, campaign to improve our equipment, which is why we all probably look very HD right now, I hope.

And, and so certainly financial support is a big piece of it, but there's also the just the vocal support.

If people want to, to support through membership or or through underwriting, we always love that.

And then right now, what we really need is for people to be able to say, I think that public media is important, and I think that it needs to be, continued in the state budget, in the federal budget, and, and to speak up and, and, and say why it's important to you because we collect stories from our viewers all the time, and they're some of the most high impact things that we have as part of kind of our case for support.

And so when it comes from someone who's watching, I can say a lot of great things about PBS, but but I work here, so it doesn't mean quite as much as when the parents as my we had we had someone whose child had been watching one of our programs and, had been totally nonverbal, and then after a couple months started saying one word and then two words and then five words, and just knowing what that impact is or when we've, done, one of our Legends of Michiana and we do multiple community screenings, hearing what the community has to say.

I didn't know that that's why this happened.

Or, I loved hearing about X, Y, and Z keep telling those stories.

And and keep, keep supporting us through your passport membership or keep supporting us through your monthly donation.

Those things mean so much to us.

And as the only locally owned and operated television station in the region, we rely on that to continue to be who we are.

And then I'll give you the last word a minute or so.

Well, funding.

Okay.

The speed answer is, protect my public media.

So as a national network, there is, as you indicated, because of the patchwork all around the country, we thought that it'd be great to sort of have a holding place.

So if you register there, you at least have a sense of kind of as it stands again, the question is, what's the value you're getting back?

And if you feel you're getting value, then you are at least hopefully a member.

If you're not in that situation where you could afford it, then protect my public media at least is a good starting point, because you at least could sort of converse with your legislators by saying, hey, even this little amount that these folks are receiving, even though it's not the majority of their funding, it makes what they do possible.

It leaves us not having to always focus on just the can we make it, you know, to the end of the month kind of thing you're trying to focus on.

This is still better for the community in general.

And that's always, you know, to be aspirational in our goals is what we always shoot for.

Great.

Well, guys, thank you for the conversation.

Anthony from the VP Amanda here from w PBS Michiana Wnit.

Thank you both for the good work that you're doing in the community.

In our communities in particular, it's a very well noticed.

We appreciate what you do.

Thank you for that cuz that's it for our show today.

Thank you for watching on a night or listening to our podcast Find Economic outlook@mnet.org, YouTube, or on most major podcast platforms like us on Facebook.

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I'm Jeffrey, I'll see you next time.

This WNIT local production has been made possible in part by viewers like you.

Thank you.