Announcer: I'm from Illinois public media.

This is an election 2022 special.

In his first term, Illinois Governor JB Pritzker ordered shutdowns during the COVID crisis, legalized recreational cannabis and signed criminal justice reforms into law.

His policies inspired Republican state senator Darren Bailey to challenge Pritzker in the courtroom, and in the 2022 gubernatorial race.

minutes after a September 29 campaign rally in Bloomington, Governor Pritzker sat down with Brian Mackey, host of the 21st show to discuss a range of issues.

Brian Mackey: Governor JB Pritzker, thanks so much for taking the time to speak with us.

Governor Pritzker: Glad to be here with you.

Brian Mackey: In mid September, President Biden said, quote, the pandemic is over.

Do you agree?

Governor Pritzker: Well, we're getting there, there's no doubt about it, things are much better in the state of Illinois.

As you know, we had a couple of very, very difficult years where we saw ebbs and flows, and sometimes some real deadly peaks of the pandemic.

But we've seen over the last six months, particularly as Omicron, fell, after the winter, that we've had much lower case counts, much fewer, many fewer people going into the hospital going into the ICUs and fewer people passing away.

I'm still deeply concerned to make sure that as many people as possible get vaccinated.

It's what keeps people healthy, getting vaccinated, and we have this new by Vaillant booster that is going to keep people safe.

So meanwhile, as you know, the entire economy and everything is opened up.

And so things are much, much better.

But we still have challenges.

We have more than 1000 people in the hospital right now, with COVID-19.

And we want to make sure that we're keeping that number moving in the right direction.

And so I'm looking forward for to being able to lift the disaster declaration in the state.

And again, following the the lead of the federal government, which still has an emergency declaration, Brian Mackey: as we're talking in late September 62 people died last week in Illinois.

There was a report just this morning, as we're talking in Science Magazine, several new and highly immune evasive strains of the virus have caught scientists attention.

In recent weeks, one or more may well cause big new COVID-19 waves this fall in winter.

Is there any chance that we would return to the sort of mitigations restrictions that Illinois had in the past mascot, closures of schools, that sort of thing?

Governor Pritzker: Look, I don't anticipate that.

But as you know, if we start to see massive numbers of hospitalizations that are at our peak, we were at about 7400 people in the hospital.

And when you're taking up all those hospital beds, with COVID patients, you're also keeping people who have heart attacks or in car accidents from getting care that they need.

So if we start to move in a terrible direction, then we're going to obviously look at other mitigations.

But people know what the mitigations are that they can do for themselves.

As things get worse if they do.

People know that masks work, at least most people follow that and understand that.

And so I would certainly advise people to do that.

But I have no plans and wouldn't anticipate that we would need to impose mitigations Brian Mackey: you and other blue state governors took a lot of heat for those mitigations even as red states.

We're not doing that.

It's what propelled your opponents popularity in some regards are his profile.

What did Illinois gain by having those mitigations longer than other states did Governor Pritzker: 10s of 1000s of people didn't die.

That's what we gain.

I think that's pretty important.

And you know, as governor, it's my job to protect people, whether it's from a flood or COVID-19.

We got to save lives and livelihoods.

That's my job.

And we did that.

But you know, you can't have your livelihood if you don't have your life.

And so that's what we accomplished.

Let me be clear, we succeeded.

We have one of the highest vaccination rates in the Midwest, we have one of the lowest mortality rates in the Midwest.

People are alive today because of the work that we did.

And if we had listened to my opponent 10s of 1000s more people would have died.

He not only posed any mitigations and masks and vaccinations but he himself is not vaccinated.

Brian Mackey: I want to move now to another aspect of healthcare which is Medicaid, the state's program for the poor, elderly and disabled over the last decade or so, Illinois, and other states have privatized the running of their Medicaid systems.

These are for profit companies.

As a businessman, I know you understand that a way to make money is to reduce costs keep costs down.

How do you reconcile a focus on profits with a state's promise to provide high quality health care to its most vulnerable citizens?

Governor Pritzker: This is something that we monitor every day as the state of Illinois, that is to make sure that people are getting the care that they need and that they deserve, and that we're managing that care appropriately and spending appropriately on it.

This is one of the largest expenditures in state government providing care for people across the state who can't afford it.

I think it's very important that people get the health care that they need.

I've always said that health care is a right, not a privilege.

And to me, that means that if you can't afford it, we need to provide it for you.

Whatever you can afford, I think you should contribute to, but I think the state should step in we I believe in universal health care.

I don't think that means the government has to run health care.

But I think that we need universal health care.

It should not be that someone goes without getting a doctor when they need one.

Brian Mackey: But with regard to the privatization, the Federal Government Association, as you may know, investigated this and found that hundreds of millions of dollars were being shifted to insurance companies away from the hospitals and doctors and other medical providers who provide this care.

Is that right?

You know, is privatization the way to go when looking to provide this high quality health care?

Governor Pritzker: Well, those are two different questions.

The the idea that there can be MCOs managed care organizations that help us manage Medicare, Medicaid in the state.

And the idea that doctors and care providers are getting paid properly.

We can have those things exist at the same time, and D that's why you have regulation and why you have a Health Care and Family Services Department.

And so constantly staying on top of that making sure that they're not profiteering on the insurance side, and making sure that doctors and care providers are getting the payments that they deserve in a timely fashion.

Brian Mackey: On the subject of health care, the State Department of Corrections, was recently held in contempt by a federal judge for failing to submit a plan to improve health care for people incarcerated in Illinois prisons, as the state agreed to do to settle a lawsuit.

What's taking so long, Governor Pritzker: the state did in fact, submit a plan.

It's just that the other side, remember, there are two sides in the litigation, there's a judge, but there are two sides in the litigation.

The other side didn't agree to the plan that was put forward.

There was a lot of back and forth.

And the fact that they didn't agree to it is why there was no plan that was something that the judge approved.

And so the judge decided in order to speed it up that he would hold people in contempt.

I understand why the judge, you know, is anxious I am to I want to make sure that people get the health care that they deserve.

And by the way, these are under consent decrees that have existed for many, many years long before I became governor.

We're trying to live up to those consent decrees.

Unlike my predecessor and people before him, who didn't live up to them and it weren't trying to either and just ignored the court.

We want to make sure that we're doing as is required caring for the people that are in our custody.

Brian Mackey: I definitely acknowledge that those these problems in the Department of Corrections long predate your administration.

I think the rounder administration would push back a little on the mental health issue in particular, but I mean, there have been these reports in the past three and a half years of mentally ill inmate locked in these are some tough things to hear but a mentally ill inmate locked in a cell with feces, as punishment.

other inmates with missing teeth and facial trauma, which suggests maybe they were beaten.

And there's a man named Larry Ervin, who was so badly beaten that he succumbed to his injuries later, three guards have either pleaded guilty or been convicted related to that death.

Then attorney Harold Hirshman on the other side of this health care case.

And the mental health case, says Pritzker has been a leader in many areas, but not on prison, medical and mental health care.

Nothing has changed in Illinois prisons in the last three and a half years.

If anything, things have gotten worse.

When these people are in state custody.

You're the governor.

Why haven't you done more?

Governor Pritzker: To be clear, that's coming from an attorney who's on the other side of the case.

It's their job to advocate for their side.

So I understand why that kind of language is coming out of that side.

The truth is that we're working very hard on two things that you're talking about.

One of them is to make sure that we're holding people accountable that people who work in prisons, for doing the right thing in their jobs.

And when they don't do the right thing.

We're holding them accountable, making sure that they're you know that they're fired, you know, and that they lose their jobs or that they're subject to even criminal prosecution.

But the other thing that we're working very hard on is to make sure to upgrade have mental health and overall physical health, that we're providing health care that we're providing for inmates, they deserve that.

That's the obligation of the state.

And again, for many years before I became governor, this has been a challenge.

That means working with the provider in the prisons to make sure they're doing the right thing.

This is a little bit like the challenge that we have, as you were describing earlier with whenever you have an outside provider, that's giving the care that you've got to hold them accountable and make sure they're doing the job that you've paid them to do.

Brian Mackey: When how often have you visited Illinois prisons as governor, Governor Pritzker: I probably four or five times, I have to say my wife does quite a lot of work with women in prison.

And so Lincoln a couple of Yes.

And a couple of the times it's been with her.

But this has been it's an extraordinarily important issue to her to me to make sure that people that are in the custody of the state and the work that's being done by the state is proper.

Brian Mackey: And it's about our public safety that over the long term, right, because a lot of the people in there even for the most heinous crimes, they're going to get out someday, they're going to be back with us.

Now is the time to do the work on mental health.

Why is it so hard to meet the court's requirements to get the staffing?

Governor Pritzker: Well, there are two challenges, I think that we all can understand.

One is making sure you have the funding that's necessary to provide the care that's required.

And to it's holding accountable the people who are actually providing the care to do the level of care that they should.

These are challenges again, they preexisted my can't my governorship.

But certainly I take responsibility.

And I want to make sure that we're continuing to move in the right direction.

But it is hard, you know, you want to change culture.

And you want to make sure you're making the investments that are necessary.

For example, we have prison facilities that are I mean, century old, some of them Civil War era, yes.

Right.

And, and so those facilities sometimes make it hard for us to provide that health care.

And then again, outside providers making sure that they're living up to their obligations.

Brian Mackey: On the subject of public safety.

Illinois, as you know, is eliminating cash bail as of January.

This is a progressive idea that people who are charged with crimes but still legally innocent until proven guilty, should not be languishing in jail for want of a few $100.

You know, all this, but there are a lot of people out there, including some Democratic prosecutors, democratic states attorneys who say, the courts are going to be forced to release sometimes dangerous people.

How can you reassure voters that there's not going to be a major crime wave related to this next Governor Pritzker: year?

Well, that's just false.

What you've just said that prosecutors may have said, There's no requirement that people are going to be led out as a result of this.

Not at all.

In fact, the goal is to keep the murderers, the rapists, the domestic abusers in jail, giving the judge the ability to keep them in jail and not give them bail.

Today, without the pre trial fairness act under the current law before that goes into effect.

They can buy their way out, murderers can buy their way out.

But a young mother who can't afford diapers and formula and shoplifts, those goes into jail and can't afford a couple of $100 in bail.

She sits in languishes in jail, while a murderer can buy their way out.

That's not fair.

And I think everybody understands.

That's not fair.

You called it a progressive, but it's not a progressive.

It's just about fairness, it's doing the right thing for people who are held by the state.

Brian Mackey: What about this critique that some are saying that judges could have used their discretion the other way and keep people in now they have this freedom, they might keep people in just because they don't like the cut of their jib or something like there are bad Governor Pritzker: judges, you got to vote him out of office.

I mean, judges should not be, you know, improperly holding or letting people go, and no one is getting out of jail.

And people, there's this idea that January one, somehow the jail doors are gonna fling open.

That's ridiculous.

That's nothing that's in the law.

That's nothing that should happen.

If prosecutors do that that's on them.

They don't have the, you know, I don't believe they have a desire to do that.

And so that's just not going to happen.

Brian Mackey: And yet, even your Democratic colleagues like Attorney General, call my role acknowledge ambiguities in the law.

And so that some provisions are relating to bail are worthy of discussion.

Will there be changes before January 1, possibly in a veto session this fall?

Governor Pritzker: Well, as you know, the action gets taken by the General Assembly and there'll be a veto session that's coming up just after the election.

Look, I every law needs tweaks.

I you know, I like to point to the Republicans who say Oh, see that amendments are needed, so it must be a terrible law.

You know what?

Republicans voted for 1000s of amendments over the years that they serve in office too.

To change laws that are on the books to make them better.

This is an example of something where of course, after something gets passed, you realize, well, maybe something should be made more clear.

To the extent that people don't understand it and, and are abusing that misunderstanding for political purposes, make sense to clarify it?

Brian Mackey: Have you been persuaded that there are changes that need to be made?

Governor Pritzker: I think there are tweaks that I've seen that need to be again, for clarification.

I also think that, look, Senator Scott Bennett introduced a bill just the other day, there are aspects of that, I think that are reasonable.

He's a former prosecutor, somebody who cares deeply about maintaining the act, but making sure that it gets applied appropriately.

And so there are things about what he's proposed that I think are worthy of consideration.

I'm always open to that idea.

Brian Mackey: Another key issue for our long term future collectively is climate change.

And we've talked in the past about transportation and how that's a bigger driver of emissions now, than the energy sector is right more tailpipes, contributing carbon into the atmosphere than actual power plants.

I've spoken with an advocate who tells me that Illinois transportation mindset is still very road focus, right, three lane highways to the middle of nowhere.

What is it going to take to break that cycle to break that mental culture?

Governor Pritzker: Well, we're making greater investments now in transit than we've ever made before the rebuild Illinois plan puts billions of dollars into transit.

And so I think that transition is taking place, you've seen that, where we've built new bridges, for example, we're actually making lanes on the sides of the bridges.

For people who are on bikes or walking across bridges.

That was impossible before they were only made for cars, at least many of them.

And so now we're you know, we're putting in bike lanes, we're making sure that we're keeping in mind what pedestrians are looking for.

But let's also be clear that, you know, when you're talking about some areas of the state, highways are necessary.

And we do have a great deal of transportation that takes place across Illinois.

And because we have businesses in Illinois that are focused on transportation, distribution and logistics, it's a big industry in Illinois.

So we're going to do both, we don't need to say we're only doing one.

And that's what I've done.

In fact, I have to say we've put a lot of effort into providing dollars in central and southern Illinois.

It's important to me that we're making the investments in transportation, also in transit, in places like East St. Louis in places like Belleville and cross Metro East here in Bloomington Normal.

And so, again, I'm I'm listening to the advocates, the transportation advocates, who want us to focus on other modes of transportation than just trucks and cars.

Brian Mackey: And interstate interchanges.

In rural Illinois.

All right.

Higher education is another topic that's been a lot discussed around the country this year.

Do you support President?

Do you support President Biden's plan to wipe away 10 to $20,000 in student debt?

Governor Pritzker: Look, I think if we could provide PPP loans to people and then have those forgiven, and those are for hundreds of 1000s, maybe millions of dollars, that providing 10,000 or $20,000 of relief, debt relief to people, former students that are carrying around student debt for decades, is reasonable.

And but remember, we're doing a lot here in Illinois to make it less costly for kids to go to college for young people and older adults to go to community college.

So they don't get strapped with debt for the rest of their lives.

I increased MAP grants in the state by a significant amount more than $200 million dollars.

And that's about 50% More than ever before every person that's applying and eligible for a map grant now gets one that never happened before.

So think about how that reduces your need to go out and take on student debt.

That plus what they're doing in Washington, DC, I think is an enormous benefit, in addition to the millions of dollars that we're putting in directly into the schools themselves, so they can provide financial aid.

Brian Mackey: Well, that's actually dovetails exactly with what I was gonna go because yes, the President's plan is for people who have already been through school.

That's right, you and I had the privilege of going to college, I think in the 80s and 90s, when it was a lot more affordable for people.

And today, I mean, since 2000, at least as of a few years ago, the amount of real dollars that Illinois gave to higher education, public institutions actually decreased and that wasn't true of almost any other area of government.

We got a question from a listener, Mike Phillips, who wanted to know about you and your opponents positions on higher education and wants to know is it desirable and possible to return to the scale of funding support the state provides In the 90s, Governor Pritzker: what I can tell you is that I have worked hard to make sure that we're providing more and more dollars for our universities, for our community colleges and for our students, so that it is more affordable.

You know, you can't just talk about tuition, without talking about the aid that gets provided.

And I'm not necessarily talking about loans, I'm talking about the grants that we're giving to people, because you have to look at that kind of net cost that a student is taking on.

In order to go to college, I think that everybody at or below median income level in the state should be able to go to college for free.

I that is a goal of mine, and I have good work.

How do you get there?

Well, you get there by continuing to increase our MAP grants, making sure that you're looking at every piece of what students are actually having to pay for.

Remember, it's not just about tuition, right, there's room and board and all of the transportation and everything that goes in around it.

And we've been doing that slowly, but surely, across the state for community colleges, and working into our universities to make sure people have the supports that they need, in order to stay in college.

Those are all costs to students, you can't just look at tuition.

And so the more we're doing that, the more we're competitive with other states.

And indeed, the more we're keeping people in our states, probably our best assets for the future of Illinois, our smartest young people, our smartest adults who are going to college, whether it's a community college or four year university, to get better educated, we want them to stay here not to go to the University of Alabama or the University of Iowa.

And so that's been my goal from day one, and we're accomplishing it Brian Mackey: is there and I guess I should disclose my home public media stations are part of the University of Illinois.

So I'm talking about some of my boss's boss's boss's here, but is there bloat in university administration's that needs to be addressed?

Governor Pritzker: You know, I think it's funny, we've been sitting together now for maybe 20 minutes.

And you haven't once mentioned that we balanced our budget in the state of Illinois, you don't talk about the state's finances, because it's not controversial, so much.

We actually not only balancing the budgets, but we have surpluses in the state.

And that's helped us now, now that we're actually acting in a fiscally responsible fashion.

We paid off all our state's overdue bills, we got six credit upgrades, that's helping us to get to a point where we're providing the funding that's necessary now, is there bloat, there's always blood somewhere, you know, you're saying bloat like, it's like everybody is doing it wrong, I am certain that there are things that you would say, or I would say, a university could be doing less of.

But the fact of the matter is that we have to put our money and our support into students who are going to school and making sure that our schools are well enough supplied with the resources that they need to give students a high quality education.

Our universities are raising up in the rankings, in part because we are providing that funding and universities are using it well, to provide the kind of academic experience that young people need.

Brian Mackey: We're coming to the end of our time together.

And I want to ask you've made trips to talk with Democrats in New Hampshire, and Florida.

This is a maze there was recently you were identified as the top donor to Democrats in the state of Minnesota.

This is a fascinating fact, I thought the people of Illinois have an interest, I think in knowing whether they'll have the full attention of their governor for the next few years.

When do you plan to state definitively whether you will or will not be running for president in 2024?

Governor Pritzker: Let me correct just a factual error.

That report about Minnesota not true.

It had.

That is not I was curious myself when I heard about that.

I'm like, No, that's not something I did.

What is that?

But it is not a contribution that I made in Minnesota.

Look, let me be clear, I'm running for reelection as governor of the state of Illinois.

I love the state and I intend to serve four years as governor, the next four years.

You know, I'm supporting Joe Biden's running for reelection.

He said that I'm supporting him in that I'm hoping that we'll be nominating him in Chicago at a Democratic National Convention.

When we win it later this this year, and and I have gone to other states to help Democrats across the country.

I you know, obviously I'm running for re election myself, but so are Democrats were governors, or people challenging governors.

And in those two cases that you mentioned, those were candidates running against incumbent Republicans and I would like to see a Democratic governor of Florida.

I would like to see a Democratic governor of New Hampshire.

I went to support my friend the Democratic governor of Maine.

So I you know, I've been supporting Democrats my whole life and I'm gonna continue to do that even as governor.

Brian Mackey: I you know, some of your opponent I'd like to portray you as being very Chicago focused.

We're here in Bloomington, Illinois.

I know you're going others places downstate today, you spend enough time downstate.

But I mean, I'll say you spend plenty of time downstate.

Not for me to judge.

But what do you do you have a pitch for voters who maybe they voted for Trump once these are not the hardcore maggot people, maybe even twice.

But you know that they should support you for reelection?

What is your pitch to the Magga?

Voter out there?

Governor Pritzker: Look, I think whoever you voted for in the last election for president or four years earlier for President?

I think the same things, you know, are challenges for working families across the stage where it's the kitchen table issues, how are you going to pay for your kids to go to college?

How are you going to make enough money to pay for your mortgage or pay your rent?

You know, are you going to be able to save for retirement is someone going to secure that retirement income for you?

These are all things that I have focused on in my four years in office.

So what I would say to people is recognize that the things that are most important in your life are the things that I as Democratic governor of the state have focused on, and the Democrats are focused on and gotten done.

Remember, the terrible shape the state was in four years ago, where we had two years without a budget where we had a governor that was working against the the working people of Illinois, working against raising wages, thought we should lower wages, I'm running against one now, who thinks we ought to get rid of the state minimum wage, it's shocking to me, I think you ought to be focused on raising wages for people across the state.

So what would I say to Magga?

Republicans, I would tell them that I'm working hard to make sure that their standard of living is raised, that we're providing and creating jobs across all of Illinois and in the areas where maybe there's a large number of people who supported Donald Trump, and I don't distinguish one from another.

Every person that lives in Illinois is deserving of the focus and attention of the governor of our state.

I have always said this.

We are one Illinois, and it's one of the reasons why you've seen so many of the investments that I've made over the last four years have been in central and southern and Northwestern Illinois, which are places where I don't live, but I represent Brian Mackey: Governor Pritzker, thank you for taking the time to speak with us.

Thank you.

Announcer: The Republican candidate in the 2022 governor's race is state senator Darren Bailey.

As of this airing he has not agreed to a campaign interview.

To see interviews with Governor Pritzker and other candidates running in the midterm election or to fill out a sample ballot before you head to the polls.

Go to will.illinois.edu and click on the election.

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